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HOMEBREW Digest #2252
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/10/28 PST
Homebrew Digest Monday, 28 October 1996 Number 2252
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
RE: Instant Lager ("Genito, Michael A.")
RE: Grolsch Bottle Gaskets ("Genito, Michael A.")
Re: Old Yeast ((patricia hust))
Many and various ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
[none] (postmaster@swpe06.sw.lucent.com)
Results: Music City Brew Off ("Bryan L. Gros")
peat revisited ("Bryan L. Gros")
Re: The lowdown on Winemaking ((Mike Spinelli))
Barleywine and pH ((Daniel S. McConnell/DSMBook))
Re: Heart's Super Clhiller opinions? ((Mike Spinelli))
Sanitation and Kegging (tsg@eng1.netlink.com)
Priming with DME (Fred Waltman)
Re: Is there a digest janitor in the house?? (Beertown Webmaster)
re Instant Lager? (Mark Thompson)
3-Vessel Mashing Systems (Rob Kienle)
A-B in Barrons (Steve Alexander)
Obnoxious Authoritarianism (<ROTH.TER@SEATTLE.VA.GOV>)
Stuck Fermentation ((Steve Adams))
prolonged use of bleach ("Kris A. Kauper")
winging ("Terry Tegner")
RE: Teat dip ("Karl F. Lutzen")
Hops, Eisbock ((Cory Chadwell))
Partial Boils and Low OG (korz@xnet.com)
Chilling Tales/RIMS job question/Pleasing rats ("Pat Babcock")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Genito, Michael A." <mgenito@ci.rye.ny.us>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 08:41:45 -0500
Subject: RE: Instant Lager
Jack Schmidling wrote:
"After kegging the previous batch, I poured the sludge from the
fermenter
into a sterile kettle and pitched this into the wort Thursday eve. It
was fermenting within an hour, by morning it was done and now (Sat), it
is clear enough to keg and tastes like any other young beer ready to
keg. That's 48 hrs, in case you have lost track. (gravity 45, temp
40F)"
I haven't tried it with lager, but have had the same experience with ale
yeast recovered from a primary - fermentation started within an hour and
was done within 2-3 days. In fact, my previous posts about recovering
and washing yeasts left out the fact that on at least two occasions, I
minimally washed the yeast (one wash vs three), and used that yeast
within two weeks of storage in the fridge. They also started very quick,
within 2 hours and fermented nicely. The yeast in these two cases was
Wyeast 1056.
I'm not into yeast culturing (yet), but maybe someone out there (Tracy
Aquilla - you still around?) would experiment by recovering repetitive
batches of a strain, and testing each recovery to see how much and how
rapid mutation might occur.
------------------------------
From: "Genito, Michael A." <mgenito@ci.rye.ny.us>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 08:48:29 -0500
Subject: RE: Grolsch Bottle Gaskets
Tom Puskar asked how often Grolsch bottle gaskets should be replaced and
replacement sources for same.
Tom, I've used Grolsch bottles for at least 5 years now, re-washing them
dozens of times. I replace the gaskets only when they appear dry,
cracked, or otherwise visibly worn out. A good sign is if the bottle
loses carbonation, but in this case, also check the ceramic top to
ensure it isn't cracked or chipped, and make sure the gasket was sitting
square on the top, making a good seal.
Just about any homebrew supply carries the replacement gaskets.
------------------------------
From: phust@unlinfo.unl.edu (patricia hust)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 08:13:43 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Re: Old Yeast
I am ready to brew again after afew monthes hiatus due to warm
weather, work schedule, ad infinitum------
I plan to brew an ESP and have some questions about the right yeast.
I have some yeast I "harvested" from a batch of oatmeal stout. It was
Wyeast Irish 1084. This was the first yeast I ever had to use a
blowoff tube with. It is extremely flocculent, and I wonder if it is
appropriate for an ESB. What does the collective wisdom think about
it? Thanx for any help about it, or any other better yeast.
Jim Hust Lincoln, NE
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton@iastate.edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:13:55 -0500
Subject: Many and various
Hello, all. I have a couple of questions.
1. Is there an FAQ for no sparge mashing?
2. Who do I email to discuss HBD format?
I also have a problem some of you out there may understand. I wrote last
Friday 25th about these same issues, and sent the post off, got the
standard "We got it" mail item back, and never saw the post again. Also, I
received an HBD the same instant I sent the post off. I checked the one
that came instantly, no post at the end, also no post at the beginning of
the next HBD. Did my post fall into the HBD purgatory? Has my reputation
as a bad brewer reached even to the HBD?
Just wondering,
Jeff
Jeffrey M. Kenton finger for PGP public key
ElEd/SecEd 301 Teaching Assistant
N013 Lagomarcino Hall "Information comes, knowledge lingers"
jkenton@iastate.edu - Alfred Lord Tennyson
------------------------------
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Homebrew Digest Monday, 28 October 1996 Number 2251
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
How hard to boil? ("Steven J. Bortnick")
Can't we all just get along (Terry White)
IPA yeasts & 1318 (Kathy Booth )
Instant Lager?` (Jack Schmidling)
O2 & plastic ((David Hill))
Hydrometer vs refractometer (JohnT6020@aol.com)
carbonation question (faymi@earlham.edu)
Things that Matter (Michael Gerholdt)
BT/AHA-Clubs/Labels/G.Fix/Zen/Smoke (Rob Moline)
Te*t (Rob Moline)
Grolsch bottles (TPuskar@aol.com)
Use of Primitive Metric System -- NOT! ((John W. Braue, III))
Bass != IPA ((John W. Braue, III))
Re: Constructive criticism (ThE-HoMeBrEw-RaT)
Brewing Techniques (TPuskar@aol.com)
Re:Cancell Subscription (Michael Azzariti <"efxguy)
Porter Temp? (Timothy J Kniveton)
Is there a digest janitor in the house?? ("Robert Marshall")
SUBMISSIONS (Rex Clingan)
------------------------------
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:05:20 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Results: Music City Brew Off
Here are the results of the First Annual Music City Brew Off, held
last Saturday in Nashville. It was very successful, with 113 entries in
eight categories.
We thank all sponsors and volunteers who helped us out. The score
sheets are in the mail today, which could be a world record. (I hate
waiting three weeks to find out if I won).
Congratulations to all the winners:
Pale Ale (28 entries)
1st: Richard Mayer (Amer. Pale Ale)
2nd: John Moranville (Amer. Pale Ale)
3rd: Billy Graham (Amer. Pale Ale)
Porter & Brown Ale (13 entries)
1st: Bryan & Lisa Gros (Porter)
2nd: Steve Johnson (Brown Ale)
3rd: John MacDougall (Brown Ale)
Stout (7 entries)
1st: Brent Talbot
2nd: Steve Johnson (Sweet Stout)
3rd: Robert & Wendy Wells (Dry Stout)
Light Lager (9 entries)
1st: George Fix (Export)
2nd: Ted Pilkins (Continental Pilsener)
3rd: Steve Johnson (Bohemian Pilsener)
Dark Lager (18 entries)
1st: Billy Graham (Dunkel)
2nd: Ron Downer (Vienna)
3rd: Lisa Gros (Oktoberfest)
Wheat Beer (10 entries)
1st: Adam Cesnales (Wit)
2nd: Jim Arbuckle (Bavarian Wheat)
3rd: J. Jeffrey Adams (American Wheat)
Strong Beer (10 entries)
1st: Adam Cesnales (Barleywine)
2nd: Kevin Clippinger (Old Ale)
3rd: John MacDougall (Scotch Ale)
Specialty (18 entries)
1st: Kevin Clippinger (Steam Beer)
2nd: Eric Branstrom (jalapeno)
3rd: Rick Foote (Steinbier)
Best of Show winner was Rick Mayer with his American Pale Ale.
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:05:18 -0600 (CST)
Subject: peat revisited
>Andrew Lynch <lynch@synopsys.com> writes:
>
> I too was smitten by the idea of peated malt in homebrew, after
>touring distilleries and breweries in Britain. I can confirm that 2
>lbs in 5 gallons is _WAY_TOO_MUCH_.
This was a "digest" thread about two weeks ago. Keep in mind that
there is LIGHT peat and HEAVY peat malts. Possibly MEDIUM peat
is also available. How much to use depends on which kind of malt
you're using. The kinds of comments above need to be more specific.
And if anyone is counting, I'll echo others' votes for only digested
"digests" and a cancel feature. If Rob went to the trouble to add
a cancel option, it must have been worth the hassle. Since Shawn
left, it is unclear whether we have a janitor or whether we're on
autopilot.
******
Steven J. Bortnick <automan@ici.net> writes:
>I just got a big propane type king cooker at about 117,000 btu's. How
>hard should I let wort boil?
>
>Heavy Boil?
>Rolling Boil?
>Light Boil?
The answer is.......Heavy Boil. Don Pardo, tell him what he's won...
Actually, what's the difference between a heavy boil and a rolling boil?
All the books say go with a heavy boil since you'll get the most hop
utilization and the best hot break. This is one improvement from moving
off the stove for most people. Of course, you'll get more evaporation
with a heavy boil, so you need to adjust your starting volume
accordingly.
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
From: paa3983@dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 09:06:51 est
Subject: Re: The lowdown on Winemaking
HBDers,
as if brewing weren't enough, can someone give me a quick and dirty primer on
wi
nemaking? I just missed the season for fresh grape juice in my area, so I'm
looking for opinions on the best commercial concentrates, yeasts and
procedures.
Thanks
Mike in Cherry Hill NJ
------------------------------
From: danmcc@umich.edu (Daniel S. McConnell/DSMBook)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:31:45 -0500
Subject: Barleywine and pH
Hi All:
I understand that there has been a discussion regarding pH control and mead
in this forum and its applicability to high gravity beer fermentation. I
have not been reading the HBD lately so I hope that these comments are not
entirely out of context......or really late.
I have done a lot of experimentation with mead since Ken and I came across
the Morse article (when? 1992?). In any case I have no experience using pH
control in Barleywine. My gut feeling is that it is not needed and
probably misguided since wort has plenty of nutrients and buffer capacity.
Just pitch sufficient, healthy yeast and there should be no problem.
"Sufficient" almost demands repitching the yeast from a previous batch to
reach appropriate cell counts.
The pH issue has been discussed thoroughly on the Mead Lovers Digest over
the last year or so, and would refer interested people to that list. It is
significant with honey wine because honey is essentially sugar with very
little protein or nutrients. Very different from beer wort.
DanMcC
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
The Yeast Culture Kit Company
800-742-2110 YCKCo@aol.com
http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/yckco.html
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
From: paa3983@dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 10:38:19 est
Subject: Re: Heart's Super Clhiller opinions?
HBDers,
I've read the review of the Heart's Super Chiller in the Spring Zymurgy issue
and am impressed. Does anyone have one of these? My intentions are for using
it on 20 to 30 gallon batches.
Thanks
Mike in Cherry Hill NJ
------------------------------
From: tsg@eng1.netlink.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:33:43 -0500
Subject: Sanitation and Kegging
I have a few questions for the collective.
Regarding sanitation:
1) When using Iodophor how does one determine whether it is still effective?
By color alone? By smell? Using some kind of test? I had been using a six
gallon covered plastic bucket to store my solution and though it smells
strongly of Iodophor I think it is the plastic that has taken up the smell and
it's not the water. Likewise for color.
2) For sanitizing racking canes and hoses how do people using Iodophor dry
the inside? I've just been letting it drip and using it even with some drops
still inside (no detectible iodine taste yet).
3) Can a bleach solution be kept in a covered plastic bucket? How long? How
do you know when it's no longer efficient?
4) Can I keep pre-boiled water in a covered sanitized plastic bucket without
losing the benefit of the boiling? This is for use in starting siphons and
topping off the fermenter. If so, how long can this be kept?
Re: kegging:
4) I just started kegging and to sanitize the keg I filled with Iodophor and
then (after letting sit a few minutes) pushed the Iodophor to another keg with
a gas line with a gas fitting on one end and a liquid fitting on the other. It
seemed like I needed to tap out some pressure/Iodophor on the receiving keg to
get all the Iodophor out of the original keg. Is this other's experiences? Or
could I have just kept increasing pressure until it was all pushed from the
first to the second? Should I leave the receiving keg pressurized and then
use this pressure to transport the Iodophor to another keg when I'm ready to
keg again?
5) What's the max pressure I should ever deal with? The kegs list around
130psi as a max, though I don't think I'll ever go anywhere near that
(certainly not more than 60psi). I'm actually more concerned with the gas
line and fittings more than the keg. Seems like the line may blow off the
hose barb (even with a hose clamp) if I were to crank up the pressure too
high.
6) When relieving pressure on the kegs does one just use a screwdriver on the
gas in? (They're ball lock kegs.)
Finally, could anyone in the Westford, MA area contact me. I'd like to
trade info on clubs, suppliers, scrap yards, etc.
Thanks to everyone,
Todd Goodman
tsg@netlink.com
------------------------------
From: Fred Waltman <waltman@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 08:26:47 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Priming with DME
Micheal (faymi@earlham.edu) asked about low carbonation in his last few
batches: One thing to remember when priming with DME -- not all extracts
have the same fermentability. Changing brands could change the amount of
carbonation you receive.
Fred Waltman
Culver City Home Brewing Supply Co. (Los Angeles)
waltman@netcom.com
http://www.homebrew.inter.net
------------------------------
From: Beertown Webmaster <root@aob.org>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 09:42:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Is there a digest janitor in the house??
Homebrew Digest REQUEST Address Only wrote:
>
> Since there's no msg on who to write to for administration issues I'm
> forced to post this here.
>
> Just what the heck is with all these empty postings that we've got
> recently??
>
> We wouldn't be having to read two or three digests a day if these
> were weeded out.
>
> Later,
>
> Robert Marshall
> robertjm@hooked.net
>
> homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm
> ----------------------------------------------
> "In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity
> of a prince, but by Bacchus, it is true
> that the brewer is king."
>
> Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916)
> Flemish writer
> ------------------------------------------------
Robert,
I manage the technical aspects of the digest. You can e-mail me at
root@aob.org. I am aware of the "no Subject" posts. And have yet to
find a way around the problem. The I.S.M. department is working around
the clock to resolve it.
Out of Here
D.J.
- --
D.J. Haines
Info. Serv. Mang. Admin.
Association of Brewers
736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 (fax)
PO Box 1679 root@aob.org (e-mail)
Boulder, CO 80306-1679 info@aob.org (aob info)
U.S.A. http://beertown.org
------------------------------
From: Mark Thompson <markt@hpdocp3.cup.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 08:45:12 -0800
Subject: re Instant Lager?
Jack Schmidling:
>As a long time yeast culturer, the idea of re-using yeast from a
>previous batch seems nothing short of blasphemous. However, wanting
>to get another batch in before the cold weather, I thought I would give
>it a try.
>
>After kegging the previous batch, I poured the sludge from the >fermenter
>into a sterile kettle and pitched this into the wort Thursday eve. It
>was fermenting within an hour, by morning it was done and now (Sat), it
>is clear enough to keg and tastes like any other young beer ready to
>keg. That's 48 hrs, in case you have lost track. (gravity 45, temp >40F)
>
>Have I been missing something?
I don't think so. This is almost the same experience that i have
had. But i think that this is a good procedure rathern than
a blasphemous one, even though i culture my yeast. I find that
my lagers are much easier to brew if i pack them all together
in sucession and repitch. I consider the first batch a five gallon
batch, to be the final step up. Even though i build up to
a one gallon starter, it never seems to have enough slurry
to get the ferment going strong. I have been using 2124 BTW.
- --
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Mark E. Thompson mailto:mark_thompson@hp.com
Enterprise Objects Program Networked Computing Division
Hewlett-Packard Co. Cupertino CA
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
------------------------------
From: Rob Kienle <rkienle@interaccess.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 11:49:54 -0500
Subject: 3-Vessel Mashing Systems
Greetings, all. I've been shopping around for a 3-vessel mashing system
and have collected lots of info on the Pico system, Sabco's Brew Magic,
the PBS (Precision Brewing Systems) 3-vessel system, Bitoa, and Penquat
Brew Tree. Thus far, although the Brew Magic system appears to be the
best from a technical standpoint, it's about 2X the cost of all the
others. Is it worth the price point to get microprocessor-controlled
RIMS? Or is a "traditional" mash tun/sparge vessel with some
recirculating capabilities sufficient (considering that a separate RIMS
can always be added on later)? Is a pump-driven system superior to a
gravity-fed system? And what about those false bottoms? How well do they
fit in each of these designs? (I know, I ask alotta questions, don't I?)
At this point I'm leaning toward the Pico system (for the pumps) or the
PBS (for the SS kettles instead of converted kegs, potentially adding
pumps of my own), but am interested in any/all advice/experience/stories
of interesting merit. Reply here or to personal email
(rkienle@interaccess.com) okay.
Prosit!
- -Rob
------------------------------
From: Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:00:30 -0500
Subject: A-B in Barrons
The current issue of Barron's (Oct 28th, 1996), a financial weekly,
has a nice article on the beer business and some specifics on the A-B
'fight' with the micros. A-B has plans to grow from 44 or 45% of the
market to 60% of the market by 2005. Most of the gains to be taken
from third tier players like Strohs and Heileman, but some share from
Miller & Coors. The Boston Brewing and Pete's Wicked interests and
positions are covered in a much more balanced way than 'NBC dateline'
IMO.
One tactic that should hurt the little guys substantially is ... "By
volume 40% of the company's [A-Bs] beer rides to market through
exclusive distributors who carry nothing else. Anheuser wants to
increase this exclusive percentage to 70%, effectively preventing
rival beers from getting what the company figures is a subsidized
ride". Redhook, with partial A-B ownership, will be the 'approved'
craft beer available to A-B exclusive distributors. Some more details
on this and other tactics appear in the article by Jay Palmer, a
Barron's staff writer.
Steve Alexander
------------------------------
From: <ROTH.TER@SEATTLE.VA.GOV>
Date: 28 Oct 96 09:11 PDT
Subject: Obnoxious Authoritarianism
I find Al K's comments "urging everone to be as skeptical about [xx's]
posts as I am" to hit a new low in ego-driven authoritarian Bullshit.
For Crissake, AL, lighten up!!!! Who elected you the Arbiter of Truth??
Stick to brewing topics, about which you are expert, and drop this
childish attempt to be the HBD Guru. Such personal attacks are driving
people away from this excellent forum. How about a little respect for
other's feelings, and other's opinions?? You may disagree with their
opinions, or their interpretation of "the Facts", but for God's
sake, drop this wiser-than-thou approach. It is demeaning, and makes the
objects of your 'scorn' feel belittled in a public forum. Most
inappropriate!!
---Ter
------------------------------
From: paa3765@dpsc.dla.mil (Steve Adams)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 96 12:22:32 est
Subject: Stuck Fermentation
HBDers:
Here's an interesting one, I think.
I recently brewed a 10 gallon, all-grain ale, whole hops, and used for the
first time WYEAST 1272, Am. Ale II, which according to the Lab is more
flocculent than 1056, with a 72-75% attenuation rate. This a fairly new yeast
without much data on it, but I am in no way making an assumption that the yeast
caused what follows to happen.
It apparently finished at 1.020 on a recipe that finished at 1.014 with
two different yeasts. I knew this wasn't a tragedy, but it made me scratch my
head a bit. I took another reading a few days later and it was still 1.020.
This is how the fermentation went. After several days of good activity
and four full days in the primary, and another week or so dry hopping in
secondaries, I checked the carboys this morning, and much to my surprise, there
was about an inch of what appeared to be trub (greenish and silty), sitting on
top of the yeast that had settled to the bottom of the jar a week ago. I took
a gravity and it was 1.014, right on. I then checked the yeast I captured from
the primary in a ball jar, and it did look pretty free of tub.
Here are some factors that may have contributed: O.G. was 56, cooled from
a boil to 75F in 15 minutes. Gently sprayed the cooled wort into the fermenter
(stainless coke can) and drove home with it for
about 40 minutes. (I brew at my buddy's house sometimes.) Oh yeah, I pitched
the yeast from a starter (built up from 30ml, 300ml, to 3000ml) before I drove
home. We've done this before (but using glass and other yeasts), without any
strange effects.
That stainless can just stands there on the floor, wedged between the
passenger's seat and the dash. Never moves. There isn't much head space in the
can -- just the domed part, so I have to use blowoff tubes -- they were brand
new and santized -- into a bucket of One Step solution. (I'm going to start
using foam control. What is that stuff actually? Anybody know any inexpensive
sources?)
I'm sure some of the more experienced brewers have some ideas on this.
Private mail is fine.
Thanks in advance,
Steve Adams
The following is an attached File item from cc:Mail. It contains
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M;&$N;6EL(&)Y(&1P<V,N9&QA+FUI;"`H,2XS."XQ.3,N-2\Q+C0P("A$4%-#
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M(%-U8G-Y<W1E;2D-"E-U8FIE8W0Z(%)E='5R;F5D(&UA:6PZ($AO<W0@=6YK
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end
------------------------------
From: "Kris A. Kauper" <kkauper@draper.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:32:17 -0500
Subject: prolonged use of bleach
I have a question about the use of bleach to sanitize glass for those of you
who are knowledgable about chemistry. When I bottle a batch of beer, I rinse
out my glass fermentation carboy and then fill it with a bleach solution (~
1 cup bleach/5 gal water). I then let the carboy sit until the next time I
brew a batch (about 1 month). My question is: is this prolonged exposure to
bleach harmful? Can it effect the glass in any way or effect the next batch
of beer if I rinse the carboy thoroughly?
I also have a related question. How thoroughly must a bleach solution be
rinsed from bottles? Does the bleach adhere to the glass at all? Is a simple
single rinse in hot water sufficient?
Thanks for any help.
Kris Kauper
C.S. Draper Laboratory
Cambridge, MA
kkauper@draper.com
617-258-1590
------------------------------
From: "Terry Tegner" <brewtec@global.co.za>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 19:44:42 +0200
Subject: winging
PLEASE PLEASE can we get passed all this winging and moaning about the HBD
content. This is a request from one of the international community who
read the HBD. We really are not interested in the pros/cons of the AOB
hosting the digest. We just want to talk brewing. Please bear in mind
that this is an international digest and try to be more brewing orientated
in your postings. We get this info for almost nothing an do appreciate the
wisdom therein. Long live the AOB or whoever hosts the HBD, they are doing
a grand job. The discussions on the HBD are just that, DISCUSSIONS and the
more intense, the more interesting they become.
Regards from the home of PhailAle
Terence Tegner
------------------------------
From: "Karl F. Lutzen" <lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 10:48:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: RE: Teat dip
Jim Murphy writes:
>I have a question about the use of teat dip for sanitizing.
>I know it has been discussed before, so I've checked previous
>threads on this. It appears that I should avoid any teat dip
>with lanolin or phosphoric acid. The teat dip at our local farm
>supply store does not appear to contain these, but it does list
>glycerine (10%) as one of the inert ingredients. At $10/gallon,
>this stuff sure seems better than paying $4/4 oz for iodophor, but
>not if there are any health risks or if it's gonna mess up my beer...
>The label says this stuff contains:
>ACTIVE INGREDIENTS 9.1%
>Alpha-(p-nonylphenyl)-omega-hydroxypoly(oxyethylene) -
>iodine complex (providing 1.0% titratable iodine,
>equivalent to 10,000 ppm titratable iodine)
>INERT INGREDIENTS 90.9%
>Glycerine 10.0%
>minimum pH 4
>Any thoughts on whether this is ok to use? Also, since this
>stuff contains 1.0% titratable iodine (vs. 1.6% for the BTF
>iodophor), should I use 1.6 times more teat dip to get the same
>concentrations?
>
Avoid it like the plague. Actually, it's probably fine for sanitizing
your hands and give you a little extra moisturizing at the same time, but
stick to standard iodophor. My farm supply did not have it on the shelf,
so I asked about it. They were out at the time, but the next week I got
it from them at about $20 per gallon. A lot better than the small bottle
price, and for those of us doing large batches, (don't have time to brew
often), or lots of brewing the cost savings is immense. Just because you
don't see it on the shelf is no reason to assume they don't or won't carry
it.
==================================================================
Karl Lutzen lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
System Administrator
The Brewery http://alpha.rollanet.org/
------------------------------
From: cory@okway.okstate.edu (Cory Chadwell)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:16:52 -0800
Subject: Hops, Eisbock
Hey Brewfans,
First off a question on Hops. While I really think Hops is great I
would like for some brews to have more hop aroma and little to no hops
bitterness for the sake of diversity. I've tried some different
Hopping strategies with no luck. Any suggestions Hop types ect. that
might give more aroma with less bittering.
Secondly I'm thinking of trying an Eisbock for sh*t's and giggles.
Should I get a yeast that will produce down to freezing and try to let
the beer freeze a little during the ferment and skim that out or
should I ferment normally then freeze and skim right before going to
bottle. Who's tried this? Is it a waste of time?
Lastly on the killer chiller thread, regardless of top down or bottom
up flow it seems a mixing paddle would help. Maybe something like a
copper fin on a copper pipe that you would attach to the chiller
itself. I'm thinking of adding one myself and wonder if the fin is
completely submerged and slow rotation is used will HSA really be a
factor.
THX, CDC
Black Cat White Stripe Homebrew,
"It might smell funny but I swear it's not skunked!!!!"
------------------------------
From: korz@xnet.com
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 12:25:18 -0600
Subject: Partial Boils and Low OG
David writes (quoting someone, sorry):
>>Am I losing gravity by only boiling in 3 gallons? Is my sugar getting
>>irretreivably lost in the trub? If I were to boil the full 5 gallons, my trub
>>would be lower in gravity, right? Thereby increasing the gravity of the wort?
>>Am I on the right track?
>
>I just recently read an article on the Brew Your Own web-page
>(http://byo.com) which claimed that a partial boil will result in lower than
>expected gravity. The reason, the article claimed, is that the dense wort
>sinks beneath the added water. The article claimed that a thorough mixing
>would occur during fermentation, but that a precise OG reading would be
>impossible. :(
>
>Perhaps one could take the gravity of the boiled wort then do some math to
>get the OG of the full five gallons.
>
>- -- David Conger
> dconger@hscribe.com
I agree that a concentrated boil will lead to a slightly lower OG than a
full (5 gallon) boil, but not because of the extract sinking to the bottom.
What BYO describes is why you would get a lower *reading* but not necessarily
why you would get a lower OG.
The reason that you would get a slightly lower *actual* OG is because of
the gravity of the wort that is trapped in the break and (primarily) in the
spent hops. When you do a partial boil, your boil can be well over 1.100 SG.
Losing 8 ounces of this to the hops/trub is more significant than losing
8 ounces of 1.050 wort.
Let's try a real example, to see how much OG loss we can expect from doing
a partial (high-gravity) boil. Let's say we're making 5 gallons of 1.050
wort, but only boiling 2 gallons. The boil gravity would start at 1.125
and (assuming a 1/2-gallon loss during the boil) end up at 1.167. Let's
say you lost 8 fluid ounces to hops and trub. You now have 184 fl. oz.
(or 1.4375 gallons) of 1.167 wort. Topping this up to 5 gallons
(1.4375 gal * 167 points / 5 gallons = 48.0125 points) gives a wort with
an OG of 1.048. Had we done a full boil (boiled 5.5 gal down to 5 gal)
and only topped up with 8 ounces to make up for the hop/break loss, the
OG would be 1.049 (actually, 1.049375). If the loss to hops/break would
be 16 ounces, the difference would (of course) be even bigger.
[Please forgive me for using far more precision in my math than our scales
or measuring cups would allow, but this is just an illustration.]
What you suggest is possible, but the accurate measurement of the concentrated
wort is rather difficult. It is not "impossible" to mix the wort so it is
all homogeneous as BYO suggests. You just have to be aware of the fact that
you must mix well and be sure to maintain good sanitation.
Since the original poster said he was boiling 3 gallons (presumably down
to 2.5 or so), unless he was making a Barleywine or some other high-gravity
style, the loss would be between 1 and 2 specific gravity points.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock@ford.com>
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 1996 13:35:03 -0500
Subject: Chilling Tales/RIMS job question/Pleasing rats
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
I have made it my policy that if I cannot remain current with the HBD reading
(and I have not been able to due to the shear volume of it lately - yeah, I
know: wah, wah, wah.), that I would not post anything in response to a thread
(something a few others might try). Don't like being a voice in the chorus
anyway...
Regardless of my principles, I wish to give the clap - er, um APPLAUD Michael
Gerholdt on his knowledge and presence of mind in HBD 2249. The concept with
the immersion chiller is chillingly similar to that of a counterflow chiller
(and most other efficient heat exchangers): keep the temperature differential
between the coolant and that to be cooled at a MAXIMUM.
As an oversimplification of the concept involved, the coolant and hot liquid
will want to equalize at some point between the two temperature extremes -
say at the middle. By normal physical properties, the cooler wort will be
near the bottom, and the warmer near the top, right? Let's put the upper wort
at, say, 200'F and the cooler wort at 190'f. (All the wort in the middle can
be wherever the hell it likes 'cuz we're ignoring it and the coils in contact
with it. Like I said: oversimplified.) Put your tap water at 70'F.
Putting the inlet at the bottom, will result in a loss of temperature of
(190-70)/2 = 60'F in our (and I stress) OVERSIMPLIFIED example. Next pass,
since the cool stuff stays low, you lose (130-70)/2 = 30'F - and
progressively less. Putting it at the top, you maximize the differential and
gain another 5'F of lost temperature in the first pass alone! (hard to talk
this way, but I don't feel like calculating the differential heat loss.
Besides, temp is our metric...). Plus, the natural tendency for the cooler
liquid to fall ensures that the hottest portion is in contact with the
coolest of the coils 100% of the time in our, again, OVERSIMPLIFIED model
(OK, so I lied: we didn't *totally* ignore the wort in the middle).
So there. And I've breached my own rule.
=================================================
As I draw to completion my RIMS system, I am left with a bit of a quandary
that I just *KNOW* some of the guys who finally convinced me to get off my
dead ass and build one have encountered and solved already (That'd be you,
Dion and YOU, Royster - But I'm open from advice and suggestions to any
RIMS-wise Brewmanoid life-forms). I would really LIKE to take temperature
readings at the inlet and outlet of the heating chamber. Initially, I'l like
to do it with simple bi-metal thermometers, and thought a 1/8" compression
fitting might do the job admirably - 'cept I can't find one. The
cork-in-the-1/2"-pipe-with-a-thermometer-rammed-in is just... ...not...
...elegant enough. How did y'all handle this?
Eventually, (read: once I get my shtuff together and write the 'wares) I'll
be controlling this from a junque 386 loafing in my basement. At that time,
I'll want to use some electronic means of reading the temp, which offers up
even more challenging thingies to think about! Thermistor? Thermocouple?
Bimetal? Small animal with EEG connected to the pain centers? And what of
probe design and <Shudder> EPOXY?!?
Any guidance will surely get the chamber off my workbench and onto the mash
tun where it belongs! (And would be appreciated to boot!)
Sorry, Steve, to turn the attention of the HBD on RIMS once again, but there
are those of us who are keenly interested in the subject. I'll be sure to let
you know the effects of pump shear on my proteins.
================================
There, Scott! You happy? I've posted again. (Drat! Just spilled my @#$%ing
coffee on the mouse pad. Rickum rackum...)
See ya!
Pat Babcock in SE MI
pbabcock@oeonline.com
"I'm not FROM here; I was just born here. Well: near here, anyway..."
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2252
****************************
