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HOMEBREW Digest #2241
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/10/22 PDT
Homebrew Digest Tuesday, 22 October 1996 Number 2241
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Re: Fermenting in plastic ("korz")
Personal attacks ("korz")
Whole hops, siphoning, and beer loss (Matt Hughes)
Aswers and responses I just made (eric fouch)
RE: Guiness HBD2240 ("Genito, Michael A.")
All-grain setup comments requested (Dave Riedel)
Double Decoction Mash (smurman@best.com)
Tannins in beer (Hugh Petersen)
AHA Bashing (Jim Liddil)
Braggot ((John Taylor))
RE: Low Gravities (David Conger)
EasyMasher (TM) (Ian Smith)
Love it! (Paul Mansour)
Jethro On Plastic (Rob Moline)
O2 diffusion (Dave Whitman)
RE: the plastic debate..... (Joe Rolfe)
Yeast ((Mark Andrizzi))
RE: Chlorine, water and taste (John.E.Carsten@oklaosf.state.ok.us)
2 Yeast Types (Steve)
Bashing the big guys and Dateline ((Charles Burns))
RE:Sabco Mashtun (Imakebeer@aol.com)
A-B Thread ("Chris Nardo")
Sorghum Beer: The Ongoing Saga (Michael Gerholdt)
RE: Pumpkin Ale (Neck pumpkins)???? (Ken Sullivan)
copper and brass in beer ("Taber, Bruce")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "korz" <korz@xnet.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:11:09 +0000
Subject: Re: Fermenting in plastic
Dave writes:
> Plastic is no harder to sanitize reliably-- it is only if there are
> scratches present that it is an issue. Scratches in a plastic
> fermenter are so laughably easy to prevent that it scarcely bears
> mentioning. What do you put in a plastic fermenter besides liquid?
The scratches come with the pail. I happen to be a home now and
have five different types of white HDPE buckets downstairs that
are commonly used by homebrewers. I just went down and
checked two brand new ones (which were scratched during
manufacturing) and II recall vividly that the other three were
scratched when I got them.
Since I don't know much about plastic bucket manufacturing
(although I know two guys in the Chicago Beer Society and
one in Brewers of South Suburbia who work in injection moulding,
so I could ask them if anyone really cares) so I can only speculate
the sources of the scratches. Some of the scratches are along the
long axis (perhaps from stacking the buckets?) and some are
semi-circumferential (perhaps from unmoulding?). Besides that,
when the time comes to clean the brown ring off the walls of the
fermenter (unless you skim), it is very tempting for brewers to
use a brush to clean the ring off (soaking in bleach solution
dissolves it without scrubbing -- I've found a week at 1tbsp/gal
to be about the proper time to give scrub-free cleaning) and this
will no-doubt scratch the fermenter.
In an upcoming monograph, I have written that a soft sponge or
paper towels should be used to clean the inside of a plastic
fermenter. I guess I could have included a soft cloth too, but I just
wanted to point out that I have not villified plastic fermenters
in the book: I have simply pointed out the pros and cons and given
suggestions to prevent problems.
> No one will question that plastic is more permeable to oxygen than
> is glass. The real question is: does it matter? Is it enough to
> affect the beer's flavor? Al, you have posted before that your
> experience with aldehydes appearing in a beer fermented in plastic
> amounts to one (1) batch-- please advise if I am mistaken.
Once bitten, twice shy. I am very sure I don't want to repeat
that batch (15 gallons of beer down the toilet).
> Plastic gets this knee-jerk, out of hand dismissal all the time and I
> strongly believe it is unwarranted. The risk of bodily harm so far
> outweighs the tiny probability of scratching the plastic that it
> seems silly to risk it-- like driving without a seatbelt. When I
> return to the States next year I will gladly keep using plastic until
> and unless it can be demonstrated to me that there is a *measurable*
> and *noticeable* influence on the taste of beer brewed in that way.
I have quite a bit more experience with other brewers' beers being
high in aldehydes -- I have judged many. I can't say whether the
problem was a plastic fermenter, a poorly-fitting stopper, a dried-
out airlock, aeration during bottling, HSA oxidising melanoidins
and then releasing that oxygen later to the alcohols, or some other
source. I can tell you that it is a problem for some brewers. In
the US glass carboys up to 7 gallons in size are easy to find and
5 gallon ones can be had for less than $10. In Oz, the situation
appears to be different.
I (personally) feel that glass outweighs plastic because of
sanitation and oxidation concerns. We obviously disagree, but that
doesn't mean that great beer can't be made both ways. I still don't
recommend more than a couple of weeks in plastic (perhaps a gasketted
lid would make this concern moot, but (frankly) I'm afraid to risk a
batch finding out. You have some data points in one direction.
Perhaps some others can post experience in support of my position.
> Yours in friendly disagreement,
Indeed -- the best kind of disagreement!
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
From: "korz" <korz@xnet.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:27:16 +0000
Subject: Personal attacks
I hate to have to address this in the HBD, but when someone slanders
me publicly, I must clarify publicly.
Dennis writes:
> The credibility of your brewing advice plunges IMO when your credibility as
> a debater falls to such gutter tactics.
I call them as I see them. Saying that another poster is posting
"baloney" is not a personal attack and not "gutter tactics."
Dennis adds:
> P.S., there is no need to flood my mailbox the way you did last time I
> suggested being more civil on the HBD, you are on my killfile.
This is an outright lie! I have never, ever flooded anyone's
mailbox. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@xnet.com
------------------------------
From: Matt Hughes <mhughes@qualcomm.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 12:34:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Whole hops, siphoning, and beer loss
I've been reading the HB digest as it appears in rec.crafts.brewing for
quite a while, and finally subscribed personally now that I have a
question.
I tried using whole hops for the first time in an IPA yesterday, and
really liked them - they seemed much more aromatic than the pellets, and
besides, it was fun to watch them unfold and churn in the boil! I ended up
using about 5 ounces of whole hops (plus 2 ounces pellets), and everything
went wonderfully until the end of the wort chilling. Then I went to siphon
off the beer into my fermentor ... disaster! I gave the beer a good whirl
and let everything settle out, then started siphoning. I got about 3.5
gallons of beer, and that was the end! There was a MASSIVE layer of hops,
hot break, etc probably 3 inches deep in the bottom of my brew kettle! I
estimate that there was at LEAST a gallon of liquid still in the bottom,
probably 1.5 gallons. I was totally unable to retrieve it ... I also
hit my target gravity right on, so I didn't want to dilute with water or
something, so this is going to be a skimpy batch!
It pains me to waste that much good beer! My question, then, is whether
there is a reasonable way to retrieve as much beer as possible from the
stuff at the bottom of the kettle. The whole hops made a huge difference
in how much beer I wasted ...
Thanks for any ideas!
Matt Hughes
mhughes@qualcomm.com
------------------------------
From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc@mcimail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 96 14:39 EST
Subject: Aswers and responses I just made
Date: Monday, 21 October 1996 3:35pm ET
To: stc012.honly@stc010.snads
From: Eric.Fouch@STC001
Subject: Aswers and responses I just made up.
In-Reply-To: The letter of Monday, 21 October 1996 10:55am ET
Rick Says:
see what the ONLY approved transfer containers for items like nitric and
flouric acid. Poly. Oh yes... If you drop a poly container of flouric
acid on the floor, what happens? It bounces. Drop a glass beaker... Hit
the decontam shower and call the HAZMAT hotline. To conclude, I have for
I hope your not really carrying around HF in glass beakers. HF attacks glass.
(Was that too nit-picky? Sorry, just trying to impress the non-chemists)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The other Rick wants to know about his hop rhizomes:
Should I:
A. plant them in small pots until they start to shoot in spring
B. leave them in the fridge and plant them in the spring
C. give up all hope and purchase fresh rhizomes in the spring
B.) Your rhizomes are dormant (nothing personnel).
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jorge wonders:
couple of question though. Is there any chance to have an
infection with C. botulinum? I am concerned about the possibility that
people who drink my beer could get botulismn. What should I do to
minimize the chance to get an infection from this microbe or any other in
No chance. No (known) pathogens can grow in beer. People who drink
your beer may get alcohol poisoning, but thats only if it's really *good*
beer (and they drink too much).
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
To add to Scotts list of acronyms,
RO=???something with water
Contrary to popular belief, RO does not mean Retarded Oviparian, like our
Aussie friends' resident Platypi, but Reverse Osmosis, a method of extracting
fresh water from salt water.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack laments:
Again, you are trying to pound a nail with a screwdriver.
So what's the problem here? I've found this to work quite well, actually.
(You should see my homemade bookshelf/bar).
E-man
Chief Misinformation Administer
Bent Dick Yactobrewery
Behind the Water Pipes,
Kentwood MI
------------------------------
From: "Genito, Michael A." <mgenito@ci.rye.ny.us>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:04:16 -0400
Subject: RE: Guiness HBD2240
In HBD 2240, John Penn says:
"I finally had Guiness Stout on draft at Rose & Crown Pub in Lewes,
Delaware and I'm glad I did...hope someone else had a similar
experience with their first Guiness Stout draft and can relate"
Just a datapoint: I used to bartend in an Irish Pub that served Guiness
on tap, and over the years, a few changes were made to some of the bars
serving this fine beverage, all for the sake of simplicity. Guiness used
to be served on tap, using special taps that were adjustable and charged
with N2. The changes started when some bars removed the N2 tanks and
used CO2 instead. The effect was a less creamy, less dense head. More
recently, about a year ago, the distributors began replacing the
original taps with otherwise standard taps. The original taps allowed a
properly trained bartender to pour a "perfect Guiness", at the right
rate of flow to allow the stout to settle out nicely and be served as a
black liquid with a near-white head. These taps had to be taken apart
periodically and cleaned, including a miniature screen inside. Too many
poorly trained bartenders never cleaned these units, they got clogged,
or worse, poured a lousy stout. Hence, the simple solution - make the
taps idiotproof, which also results in Guiness gushing from the tap and
taking a longer time to settle. The pour was not as appealing, and in
some cases, even tastes different.
Find a pub using nitrogen and original taps, and enjoy!
------------------------------
From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL@ios.bc.ca>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:43:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: All-grain setup comments requested
I am in the process of assembling an all-grain setup using a pair of 50L and
one 30L SS keg. I would've preferred the 10-gallon GOTT approach, but I
already had the kegs so I thought I'd save my money and use them. My basic
goal is to have a user-friendly all-grain system without getting into the
complications and cost of 3-tiered or RIMS system. I would GREATLY appreciate
the collective's comments on my plan.
1. Hot liquor tank: 30L keg with lid and ball-valve spigot
Should I insulate this or use the burner as needed?
2. Mash tun: 50L keg with lid, ball-valve spigot
'Spray-foam' insulation in slide on jacket-style
Copper lautering manifold in a ring shape of about
8" diameter at center of keg depression.
I'm hoping that this will allow me to stir the mash and avoid grain
scorching (if step mashing or raising to mash-out by direct heat) w/o
having to resort to an expensive false-bottom. I think the wort will
drain sufficiently since the manifold sits at the center, but will it
be too slow or clog-prone due to its small size?
3. Kettle: 50L keg with lid, ball-valve spigot
Copper ring manifold 10-12" diameter near edge of keg
In this vessel, I'm hoping that immersion chilling and whirlpooling
should concentrate the break material and hops (pellets or whole)
inside the ring allowing me to run the wort out through the spigot.
Specific questions:
A. Will this setup work consistently or is it prone to difficulties?
B. Would it be better to simply use infusion steps, thus avoiding direct heat
and therefore allowing a lautering manifold with greater coverage?
C. Are pellet hops likely to clog up *any* manifold/strain system? Should I
simply go to whole hops and a manifold with greater coverage?
I will be truly grateful to any and all who can assist me with this. I'm
dying to get this setup completed so that I can have it ready to go by the
beginning of December. Thanks in advance, (private replies welcome)
Dave Riedel, Victoria, BC, Canada
------------------------------
From: smurman@best.com
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 13:56:23 -0700
Subject: Double Decoction Mash
I did my first double decoction mash this weekend, and I'm still not
clear on some points. I understand there's some leeway in
temperatures, volumes, and times, and that I will develop my own
"style", but I want to make sure I understand what each stage is
trying to accomplish.
I strike in a 122F, rest, then take a first decoction and heat to
154F, rest here, and then boil the decoction. I added this back to
the main mash aiming for a temp of 150F, and then rested. The second
decoction was then pulled, boiled, and returned to reach 167F.
The second rest stage after adding back the first decoction is the
source of most of my confusion. I assume that this is a
saccarification(sp?) rest. I was aiming for 150F based on the double
decoction schedule from Noonan's book New Brewing Lager Beer. I've
seen many other temps given here, and that's understandable. Why does
Noonan suggest 150F? This seems a little low to me for a complete
conversion of alpha-amylase. Should you rest at this temp until the
iodine sugar conversion test comes out positive? I'm refering to
resting before pulling your second decoction, i.e. should you pull
your second decoction even if the iodine test is negative? Is there a
disadvantage to resting at a more typical infusion mash temp of say
156-158F?
On a related note, are there any estimates for the amount of color
added to the mash from the decoction process. I'm assuming most of
the color imparted to the mash comes from boiling the first decoction.
Can it be naively assumed that the longer this is boiled, the more
color will be added? I'd also assume that more of a toasty flavor
will be added the longer the first decoction boil.
I've probably got a bunch more questions, but this is already getting
long, so I think I'll wait to see how much discussion this generates.
SM
------------------------------
From: Hugh Petersen <PETERSEN@persoft.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 16:08:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Tannins in beer
Extract Brewing with Specialty Grains and Tannins
Hello one and all, I have a quick question for anyone who can help me. I am
novice to intermediate (extract w/ specialty grains such as crystal malts,
chocolate malts, and Black Patent) homebrewer. Fairly often
I get a sharp flavor in my beer. I am thinking, correctly I hope, that it is
attributed to Tannin from the husks of the specialty grains I use. In reading
the recipes I have used I have been instructed to put the grains in a bag,
bring to a boil and remove the grains, add extract, hops, etc. I have been told
by different brewers that if I remove at the point of boiling it will be OK
others tell me it is too late and the boiling point is beyond the point where
tannins are released
At what temperature should I remove the grains (I have heard that 150 Degrees
F), and
should I try to hold a certain temp. with the specialty grains for a certain
time? I have seen many contradictary opinions. I always pay very close
attention to sterilization so I don't think that is the problem.
Thanks, this is a great forum.
------------------------------
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL@AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 14:05:09 -0700 (MST)
Subject: AHA Bashing
I think based on what is happening at the AHA now that that HBD be moved from
the AOB server. If the AHA has the attitude of getting rid of who ever does
not serve their political agenda then I think there is no reason to use their
server. It is time for homebrewers to cut the cord from the AHA. It is time
for an alternative that does not just SAY they listen to the "members". With
this in mind an alternaitve server should be found for the HBD.
Jim
------------------------------
From: jltaylor@ix.netcom.com (John Taylor)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 22:16:47 GMT
Subject: Braggot
I just made my first braggot (1.5 lbs Pale LME & 1.5 lbs Honey per
gallon) (one gallon). I used a wine yeast (semi-dry), the question
is, should it be still or not and corked or capped?
- --------------------------------------------
John Taylor [JLTaylor@ix.netcom.com]
Brew Stud pico-Brewery Austin, Texas <<Cofounder>>
Specializing in hand crafted ales & meads
------------------------------
From: David Conger <dconger@hal.hscribe.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 18:43:18 -0400
Subject: RE: Low Gravities
>Am I losing gravity by only boiling in 3 gallons? Is my sugar getting
>irretreivably lost in the trub? If I were to boil the full 5 gallons, my trub
>would be lower in gravity, right? Thereby increasing the gravity of the wort?
>Am I on the right track?
I just recently read an article on the Brew Your Own web-page
(http://byo.com) which claimed that a partial boil will result in lower than
expected gravity. The reason, the article claimed, is that the dense wort
sinks beneath the added water. The article claimed that a thorough mixing
would occur during fermentation, but that a precise OG reading would be
impossible. :(
Perhaps one could take the gravity of the boiled wort then do some math to
get the OG of the full five gallons.
- -- David Conger
dconger@hscribe.com
------------------------------
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs@netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 17:53:44 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: EasyMasher (TM)
Does anyone know the approximate wire diameter and meshes per inch for
the EasyMasher(TM). I am trying to make a "false bottom" and thought I'd
start with the same mesh.
Cheers
Ian Smith
------------------------------
From: Paul Mansour <pmansour@mansours.com.au>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:12:08 -0700
Subject: Love it!
A special thank you to the following for making reading the digest so
enjoyable lately. Keep it up - I need the laughs!
"Smart-Ass@Korzonas.com"
Erik Vanthilt
Rob Moline
Jethro Gump (?!)
Andy Walsh
and especially John ("The Coyote") Wyllie on those pesky Bergamots - I
broke up severely with that one!
Paul Mansour,
Sydney, Australia
EMAIL: pmansour@mansours.com.au
------------------------------
From: Rob Moline <brewer@kansas.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 01:44:42 -0500
Subject: Jethro On Plastic
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh@crl.com.au>
>Subject: Re: Jethro on plastic
>So Jethro, keep your redneck theories off the HBD,
At least I don't store my malt under nitrogen!
Jethro
Cheers!
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about
beer!"
------------------------------
From: Dave Whitman <dwhitman@rohmhaas.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 08:37:29 -0700
Subject: O2 diffusion
In HBD#2240, Ed Steinkamp asks about permiability through plastic:
> My question is why is the permeability of the plastic important?
> How does the air get in when the pressure in the fermenter is
> higher than that of the ambient air?
I hesitate to jump into the middle of our (recurring) glass vs. plastic
debate, but this question illustrates a chemical principle that I think
is not generally understood.
The pressure of CO2 is irrelevent to the rate of diffusion of O2 into
the fermenter. The driving force for diffusion of O2 is to get equal
concentrations of O2 on both sides of the fermenter wall. Total
pressure in the fermenter doesn't matter, what's important is the O2
concentration inside.
------------------------------
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc@shore.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:23:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: the plastic debate.....
i will say one thing then you all decide on how good plastic is/isnot..
if plastic were good for brewing, then why is it in a commercial brewery
you never see them as fermenters and lager tanks?????
now you tell me how good plastic is?
joe
------------------------------
From: FelixTKatt@gnn.com (Mark Andrizzi)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 09:38:16
Subject: Yeast
Hi All,
One week ago I posted asking for recipes for hard cider. I
appreciate all of your help. Now I have a new question for the
collective brain trust that lurks on this channel.
When I made the hard cider, I wanted a less dry cider than can be
achieved using Champagne Yeast, so I used a recipe that I got off
of the Cat's Meow that called for 3 pounds each of brown sugar and
honey. Further, I used Wyeast 1056 ale yeast for fermentation. I
used this yeast as it is clean and will not add a yeasty flavor (
to add to the thread that was going a week ago as to the reason to
use a bland yeast such as 1056) to the cider. Now my question: If
I capture and reuse some of the trub from this cider brew, will I
get off tastes in a beer recipe. It was a first batch use of this
yeast and I used starters to increase its size. I just hate to
waste all that good, first time yeast population, but I don't want
to get weird taste due to it being used in a apple cider. Does the
yeast pick up the apple flavor? Will it impart off flavors? Any
enlightenment that anyone would have on this would be appreciated.
TIA and private E-Mail is great. I, like others, am tired of
seeing a huge number of digests coming with little more than people
saying the same things over and over ("Like the forty other people
that answered that Question, I just wanted to say that I, too,
do...."). If you don't have something new to impart, keep it to
yourself or private e-mail. Few have time to read the 2 digests a
day of repetitive posts. Less time on the digest means more time
for brewing and enjoying homebrew.
Thanks,
Mark Andrizzi
Brewmaster of homebrewed "Monkey Butt Beer" tm
Brew Well and Brew Often
------------------------------
From: John.E.Carsten@oklaosf.state.ok.us
Date: 22 Oct 96 10:09:05 -0500
Subject: RE: Chlorine, water and taste
Marshall asks about the effect of chlorine on taste and methods for its
removal:
I don't know about the concentration of chlorine in your water (Australia, you
said?), but where I reside, Oklahoma, USA ... our water supply has 3 ppm of
chlorine present. I have been told that chlorine is detectable by the human
palate at concentrations as low as 1 ppm. As our chlorine is "ammonia bonded"
in the water, I've also been told that simple boiling will not remove it.
Therefore, I don't think your idea about leaving the water in the sun for a few
days will work either. I believe the process for putting chlorine into water
is different than simply dumping chlorine granules in a pool.
My method for getting around this is simple, though. I simply went to my local
hardware store, and for about $15 (US), bought an on-sink water filter. This
device (which is made by a number of different companies) charcoal filters the
water, removing most undesirables, leaving behind water that is pure enough for
my palate anyway. The filters are good for 3-months of heavy use, and cost
about $7 to replace.
By the way, they also provide excellent water for coffee and drinking.
John Carsten
------------------------------
From: Steve <JOHNSONS@UANSV5.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 11:28:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: 2 Yeast Types
I brewed up an all-grain IPA this weekend and decided to pitch a stepped up
packet of Wyeast 1968, Special London yeast. From what I've read on the
Wyeast faq sheets, this yeast can sometimes require a bit of a nudge in terms
of needing some more oxygen or rousting up to help it finish out. I am not
using any sort of air stones or other aeration devices, so was wondering if
one solution might be to add some other variety of yeast, say Wyeast 1056, when
I rack to a secondary fermenter, and let they two of them fight it out over the
last bit of fermentable sugars to bring my gravity down from its OG of 1.062.
Anyone had any experience with using 2 types of yeast in the same brew? I
think I've seen some posts in the past year regarding this with some barley
wines...Thanks. Private e-mail is fine.
Steve Johnson
Music City Brewers
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 09:43 PDT
Subject: Bashing the big guys and Dateline
Joe Rolfe writes (in hbd 2231):
<snip>
i can not and will not bash any brewer/brewery - we are all in the same boat
although the boat may be springing a leak due to the amount of people
in the boat.
<snip>
I didn't see the dateline show but I sure am tired of reading about it. We
all pretty much have the same opinion on this. Except the quote above from
Joe. We really are all in the same "business". Why don't we quit bashing the
big guys and start telling our friends why homebrew and micro-brews are
better, and convincing them to try some. Up until a year ago, I was a silver
bullet guy. It was great stuff when out on the lake in 110F on a water
skiing vacation.
The negative stuff is getting boring and tiresome, and wasting a lot of
valuable bandwidth.
My $.02.
Charley
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Burns, Director, Information Systems
Elk Grove Unified School District
cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us, http://www.egusd.k12.ca.us
916-686-7710 (voice), 916-686-4451 (fax)
http://www.el-dorado.ca.us/~cburns/
------------------------------
From: Imakebeer@aol.com
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 12:55:08 -0400
Subject: RE:Sabco Mashtun
I bought my Sabco Mash/Lauter tun about 6 months ago and frankly, I am
disappointed. I've brewed eight 10 gallon batches with it and have
encountered numerous problems.
1) The thermometer is physically too high in the grain bed to provide an
accurate reading. With 22 quarts of mash water the thermometer is only about
one inch below the surface of the water. After adding the grain it is still
only 3-4 inches under the grain bed. I couldn't see using it on a 5 gallon
batch.
2) The false bottom rests on the edge of where the rounded bottom of the keg
meets the straight side. Neither the keg nor the false bottom are perfectly
round and there are gaps that let grain through. I've recirculated GALLONS of
runnings and still have had grain coming through. Not only that, every one in
a while during the sparge, a big burst of grain will come through. I've
placed a hose clamp on the out tube that runs through the center of the false
bottom. I push down on the center of the false bottom, then tighten the
clamp, which helps push the edges of the false bottom against the edge where
it is supposed to rest. I've resorted to placing a grain bag on the end of my
hose that goes to my brew pot and catching any stray pieces of grain in it.
3) The damn thing is heavy! Once you consider what the tun (16#), water
(40+#) and the grain (18+#) weigh, the fact that you heat it up to acheive a
mash temp of 150 deg, then if you have to lift it (which you probably will so
you can sparge into you brew pot), it can make brewing on your own difficult
if not dangerous. I've attached a come-a-long to the rafters in my garage so
I can lift mine.
I feel that it would be an excellent piece of equipment if used in their/a
RIMS system. As for non RIMS use, it is my opinion that it could definatley
use some improvements.
Robert Hops
imakebeer@aol.com
------------------------------
From: "Chris Nardo" <CNAR@imnr.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 10:05:45 GMT +700
Subject: A-B Thread
Fellow HBDers:
After being a lurker for many years please let me say thank you for
your advice, information and entertainment.
With regard to the recent thread about A-B, truth in labelling, and
the possiblity of them brewing craft beer or at least "better" beer,
let me add the following brief report.
A-B purchased Sea World several years back and subsequently opened a
beer garden (at least here in San Diego) at the park. In a recent
trip, we were offered 2 oz. tasters of the new line of A-B craft
beer. There is a hefe-weizien (no clove, no thick white head, tastes
like Bud Light, and completely clear!), an "Amber Bock" , and a
"Celebration Ale". I asked the bartender, " What kind of ale is the
Celebration Ale?" She said, "Its a dark lager." "The celebration ale
is a lager?" "That's right." Thankfully I only had to drink 2 oz.
and didn't have to pay for it.
Well, last night at the local supermarket I discovered six-packs of these
brews (and they were cheaper than Bud), so I picked up some Michelob
Amber Bock ($2.97). I was willing to give it another try after the latest
HBD posts. The label read "brewed with only dark malted barley,
rice, water, hops , and yeast." The inclusion of rice in the
ingredient list disturbed me but I tried it anyway. It simply tasted
like "Bud Dark". I went into the next room had my wife close her
eyes and taste it. She said, "Tastes exactly like Budweiser. What
is it? Nice label though." 'Nuff said.
We expect as much from A-B, but in light of their recent posturing
about truth in labelling I did not expect to see on the Amber Bock label,
"Crafted by the Master Brewers at the Anheuser-Busch Company, St.
Louis, MO". No litany of breweries dotted around the backside of the
label. Isn't this what A-B was on about BBC just a week ago on
Dateline? I seriously doubt that this beer was brewed and bottled in
St Louis and trucked to San Diego for my consumption. More likely it
was brewed in A-B's So. Cal. plant in Van Nuys, CA or at the very
least the No. Cal. Fairfield plant. You see A-B is not concerned
with freshness or truth (whatever that is) or even beer. Its about
money.
- - Chris
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Christopher J. Nardo, Ph.D.
The Immune Response Corporation
Carlsbad, CA
"He made for the cellar-door, and presently reappeared,
somewhat dusty, with a bottle of beer in each paw and
another under each arm, 'Self-indulgent beggar you seem
to be, Mole,' he observed. 'Deny yourself nothing.'
- - K. Grahame, "The Wind in the Willows'
------------------------------
From: Michael Gerholdt <gerholdt@ait.fredonia.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 96 13:26:31 -0500
Subject: Sorghum Beer: The Ongoing Saga
- -- [ From: Michael Gerholdt * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
After I got home from the hombrew meeting, I put the fermenter with the
still active sorghum beer in the hallway. It continues to work, slowly. I
continue to wonder what I'm going to do with it.
Last night my brother-in-law accepted my offer of a taste, despite all
warnings. I joined him. The beer has changed; it is lighter in body and more
palatable. Still smells very bad, but doesn't taste nearly as bad as it
smells.
Still doesn't taste exactly *good* either.
But I think now I'll filter it out, bottle and refrigerate it, with
intentions of drinking it up. Maybe.
One thing I noticed ... after only a couple sips, I could feel the fusel
alcohols knocking on the brain cells ... very lowgrade headache was fairly
immediate. I drank about 12 oz of the stuff. The headache didn't get very
bad; it was just there.
In clear beers, if fusel alcohols are present, they might dissapate over
time, right? This beer is supposed to be drunk quite young, so aging isn't a
normal practice. Any thoughts as to why there are fusel alcohols present?
Those of you who drink this stuff regularly or on occasion, is the headache
normally part of the experience? Besides drinking enough of it that you
don't mind the headache, is there some way (other than dumping) to eliminate
it?
************************************
Isn't there still someone out there who is also making sorghum beer? I've
seen one other report besides mine, and I thought there were three ........
- --
------------------------------
From: Ken Sullivan <kj@nts.gssc.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 11:34:40 -0600
Subject: RE: Pumpkin Ale (Neck pumpkins)????
Okay, I don't know what a 'neck pumpkin' is. In the recipe for
Liquid Pumpkin Pie Darrin suggests using 'cooking (neck) pupmkins'
So what is a 'neck pumpkin'?? THe only ones I'm familiar with are
the big orange things kids smash on halloween!
Any pointers??
Thnx,
KJ ( looking forward to my first Liquid Pumpkin Pie :-)
------------------------------
From: "Taber, Bruce" <Bruce.Taber@nrc.ca>
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 1996 13:54:00 -0400
Subject: copper and brass in beer
Dear Brewbrothers,
(I mean this in the generic, non-sexist form)
My keg system uses copper tubing and brass fittings in which beer will
sit for extended periods of time. I know there is no problems with
making beer in copper, but what about storing beer in contact with
copper and brass? Any potential dangers or off-flavors? IMBR?
Yours in beer,
(I wish)
Bruce Taber
bruce.taber@nrc.ca
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2241
****************************
