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HOMEBREW Digest #2246
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/10/24 PDT
Homebrew Digest Thursday, 24 October 1996 Number 2246
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
re: Killer Chiller Question (AJN)
trub removal (JUKNALIS)
zen of homebrew (TMCASTLE@am.pnu.com)
New A-B Commercials (BRIAN F. THUMM)
Re: Pathogenicity,Mead racking,Bleach,Cooler,Carbonater ("David R. Burley")
Oxygenation, ("David R. Burley")
Teflon vs. plastic vs. glass vs. stainless steel ((George De Piro))
RE: Watery beer / sanitizing corks for mead ((George De Piro))
Farm Fresh October Beer extravaganza (Chris P Crigger)
RE: Chlorine, water and taste ... again (John.E.Carsten@oklaosf.state.ok.us)
Lactic Forming (RUSt1d?)
Conversion from Extract to All Grain (Ron Schneckloth)
Alternatives to AHA ((Ken Jucks, ph # 617-496-7580))
AOB (cathy)
Re: HBD + AHA = BFD.... (Spencer W Thomas)
pumpkins ((waco tribune-herald))
re: Killer Chiller Question (Derek Lyons)
Re: Killer Chiller (Derek Lyons)
Re: AHA: non-profit? (Derek Lyons)
Re: Mash temps, quick ferment (Barry Vanhoff)
Re: chiller direction of flow ((Charles Burns))
Re: Fermenting in Corny Kegs?? (hollen@vigra.com)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: AJN <neitzkea@frc.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 06:19:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: re: Killer Chiller Question
> From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
>
> I've got to go home and see if I put the hose adapters on the chiller
> correctly. Or am I way off base here?
>
> Charley
Yes, the cold water should go into the bottom of the chiller and exit out
the top.
However it depends on how fast your flow is, I know when I have
mine on full blast, the water coming from the exit is *cold*!
So, what do you gain from running the inlet to the bottom of the coil?
water conservation, you can slow the water flow down and still chill.
(say that three times fast:)
_________________________________________________________________________
Arnold J. Neitzke Internet Mail: neitzkea@frc.com
------------------------------
From: JUKNALIS <juknalis@ARSERRC.Gov>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 07:55:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: trub removal
George De Piro replies on trub removal...
Derek also asks about trub removal. He seems to chill the wort in the
boiler than rack it over to the fermenter. He is upset because so
much break material gets siphoned over.
One of our club members (Bruce Hammil) recently wrote an article in our
Homebrew
club newsletter on the topic...
Siphon/pour beer into one carboy, wait about an hour & clean up. During that
time
a cold break will settle out & you can siphon off the cleared wort into another
carboy,
aerate & pitch yeast.
I've tried it twice, I end up leaving about a half a gallon of slurry (sniff,
sob) in
the bottom of the first fermentor. Perhaps if I waited longer the trub would
compact
further... No telling of quality differences yet, but Bruce has made some good
brews
using this technique.
cheers
Joe
Homebrewers of Philly & Suburbs (HOPS)
------------------------------
From: TMCASTLE@am.pnu.com
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 08:18:27 -0400
Subject: zen of homebrew
Hey,
In HBD#2242, Cuchulain Libby (a most impressive name) imparts
acquired knowledge that full wort boils and liquid yeasties really
do make a difference, then hedges on all-grain because of currently
trying to make the "best beer with the least effort". Although an
arguable point, I purport that the "best beer" CAN'T be made without
going to all-grain, let me impart the Zen spin on why all-grain is
preferable.
"You can't be enlightened about where you are unless you experience
the journey of getting there."
Or... you'll never experience the "best" beer you can make unless
you cook the grain yourself... adding your own effort into the
process. With extract you have a nameless, faceless brewing partner
you know nothing about. It robs your product of some of its
history.
Brew happy,
Tom Castle
The Zen of Homebrew
http://www.netcom.com/~tmcastle
------------------------------
From: BRIAN F. THUMM <THUMMBF@GWSMTP.NU.COM>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:10:46 -0400
Subject: New A-B Commercials
Who else has heard this one....
I woke up this morning to the clock radio, as usual, to the end of a song,
which was immediately followed by a commercial. ( I say that only to say that
I heard the entire commercial.) With spooky music in the background, an
undisclosed person was heard rapping on someone's door. The door opened, and a
whiny, nasal voice (purported to be Jim Koch) questioned "Who are you." The
other person claimed to be the ghost of Samual Adams, "Brewer, Patriot, the man
who is on all of your bottles" and he laid it on pretty heavy to "Jim Koch" on
how he is "tricking" the public. "Your beer isn't even made in Boston. The
beer you call 'handcrafted' is made in the same breweries that make Schlitz and
Old Golden." The ghost of Samual Adams gave a pitch on honesty, and truth in
advertising, and the announcer concluded the commercial with "Stop being
tricked and treat yourself to ..." and I forget what he said. By this point I
had figured out it must have been A-B, and the final sentence of the
commercial, the only time you knew it was A-B, was "Brought to you by Anheuser
Busch."
How many more of these commercials are out there? Is this a regional ad? (I
am in New England...the "home" of Sam Adams).
I wish I could get a transcript of the commercial. I think I'll check out the
Bud homepage, just for kicks, to see what they are hyping now. It appears the
born-on dating kick has now spun out into the truth in advertising kick.
Brian
Salem, CT
------------------------------
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 24 Oct 96 09:14:54 EDT
Subject: Re: Pathogenicity,Mead racking,Bleach,Cooler,Carbonater
Brewsters:
Jorge Blasig writes:
> I have a couple of question though. Is there any chance to have an
> infection with C. botulinum? I am concerned about the possibility that
> people who drink my beer could get botulismn. What should I do to
> minimize the chance to get an infection from this microbe or any other in
> my beer? How would I recognize it?
One the great things ( among many) about beer is that it will not support
organisms which are pathogenic - or cause botulism, since it sterilized by
boiling for an extended period and is always acidic.
M&BS p 572 1ed ed. says:
"Fortunately for brewers, microbiological control has to be exercised only over
a limited range of of bacteria and yeasts and none of the bacteria are spore
forming......... Pathogenic micro-organisms fail to grow in beer, or even
survive for extended periods."
Regarding racking off your mead, I have just had some great lessons in private
conversations from some mead makers, Robert Waddell, Jeff Smith and Spencer
Thomas.
Although I haven't had the opportunity to do it yet, here's a shortened version
of their story:
1) If the pH drops below about 3.7 and 2) if you don't have a source of
B-vitamins ( like from dead yeast) your mead may take a long time to ferment
out
and not taste good. If you can, get some pH paper and measure the pH
periodically. If it drops below pH = 3.7, add a little CaCO3 to keep in in the
range of pH = 4 or so. Don't rack too soon so that you get some autolysis or
put in a vitamin B comlex tablet or boil some bakers yeast in water and add
that.
>I have another question. The bleach that you all use to sanitize your
>carboys, does it contain chlorine or not? I sanitize with a product that
>contains chlorine (HClO - sodium hypochloride) and also used another
>product which contains ammonia. I rinsed with tap water several times until
Don't worry bleach (sodium hypochlorite) will not cause a flavor problem if it
is rinsed in three rinses of boiled hot water. Don't use the ammonium and
organo-ammonium based bacteriocides -some are not good for you. Also, no need,
bleach is cheap, available and does an excellent job of cleaning and
sterilizing. Be sure to use safety glasses and rubber gloves when handling
bleach.
>I also need the dimensions for a copper immersion wort chiller (3/8" or
>1/4" or 1/2" internal diameter) which allows me to chill aproximately 6
>gallons in a standard time (say 15 minutes). Any suggestions. I worked on
There is a new design being talked about right now here on the HBD in which the
water enters a manifold which feeds a several circular rings of tubing and the
water exits through another manifold. This allows more water to flow and the
water is always colder, since it is only passing through a few feet before
exiting. This is a much more efficient device. 3/8" seems to be about right in
terms of forming the coils easily and still have enough water to be efficient.
Be sure to use a safe solder or compression fittings on any thing you
construct.
- ---------------------------------
Dan Husky @uno.com says:
>I just bit the bullet and bought a carbonater cap a week ago, and I've
>got to admit while it's pricey as hell, I wish *I* had thought of it.
>Let me know what happens.
So did I and on its second use it came apart and the parts fell into the beer I
was going to take to a party. I had to drink an unplanned half liter of my
Porter to get it back ( what's that about making lemonade out of lemons?). I
don't know if there was a snap ring and it fell into another bottle or not but
I'm going to use super glue on it to keep it together. Ken Schwartz, I think,
set up a similar system with an tire air valve. It is a lot cheaper, but I like
the convenience of using the ball lock fitting with out a lot of changing
around. The advantage of Ken's system is you can afford to have several in the
fridge at the same time. If this becomes a regular event , I may go with his
system.
My beers have so much head I have trouble filing them into bottles even at 10
psi, so I use CO2 on a partially filled bottle to kill the head, add more beer,
etc. When I get almost to the top, I squeeze the bottle and release the
pressure to get any air out, pressurize with CO2 until the bottle gets hard
about 20 -25 lbs and put it in the refrigerator.
- ------------------------------------------------------
Matt Hughes complains about loss of beer with whole hops. Matt, try the
Choreboy solution. Attach a copper, unsoaped Choreboy on the bottom of a
racking cane. It will use the hops as a filter and you will get every last
ounce of wort and keep all the hot break behind trapped in the hops. The trick
is to put the end of the racking cane in the middle of the Choreboy, not near
the edge and don't put the end of the cane up against the wall of the boiler,
just along the edge.
- ------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3203@compuserve.com
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3203@compuserve.com
------------------------------
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 24 Oct 96 09:15:20 EDT
Subject: Oxygenation,
Brewsters:
Sorry, but my telephone has been out since Sunday and it is obviously fixed
today - whatever today is. Sorry if this is overlapping other contributions.
Comments on the wort oxygenation article appearing in Brewing Techniques this
month:
> To me the article showed that if you own an oxygenator you may as
>well use it but if you don't, save your money! What do you people think?
I waited anxiously as I read the article to see what the actual recommended
level of oxygen should be and he never really answered it. However, it looks
like he got a real difference between 10 ppm and 7 ppm. At the higher level he
got a slower start ( implying to me more aerobic growth) and a slower
flocculation ( implying I don't know what - who knows?) which makes me feel
that
10 ppm oxygen is necessary to begin to really get a significant amount of
growth
in the wort. Lower oxygen content just doesn't seem to produce this.
It is probably time to open up the ester thread again since we have all had
time
to do some more reading and re-think our discussions. My thoughts:
IF you are interested in low ester content in the fermenting beer, I think the
yeast growth should take place in the starter and let the pitching rate be high
enough that no significant colony expansion takes place in the wort during
fermentation, since discussions here and elsewhere indicate that esters happen
during yeast colony expansion. The significance of this article, in my view,
is that it suggests that our starters should contain 10 ppm of oxygen
continually to get good growth. Bubbbling in air or oxygen continuously during
starter fermentation should reduce the formation of esters and scrub any
aromatics and CO2 ( which can slow growth) out.
As indicated below, just bubbling in oxygen is not enough to ensure good yeast
growth.
- -------------------------------
Dion says:
"The first phase is the lag phase, and is *aerobic*. The yeast will
take up oxygen and nourish themselves without much population increase
until the oxygen is depleted. The only byproducts at this stage are
H2O and CO2. As soon as oxygen depletion occurs, they go into
fermentation which is an *anaerobic* phase. The cell population will
go up rapidly to a max of about 5 million cells per milliliter and
alcohol and CO2 will be produced. Add more oxygen and you increase
the lag phase, however, when the fermentation starts, you will have
yeast which are in a much healthier state than with less oxygen."
DRB says - Not really, Dion, S. Cerevisiae always produce alcohol in a normal
fermentation, even in the presence of oxygen. In commercial operations yeast
is grown in aerobic conditions.
M&BS p 492 1st ed says:
In the case of Baker's Yeast:
"
When air is blown into a growth medium, whether it be a malt wort or a molasses
medium, there is a substantial increase in yeast propagation. This discovery
called the Pasteur effect, after its discoverer arises from the inhibition of
alcohol production............."
In the case of Brewer's Yeast:
The Aerobic form of metabolism is incomplete in S. Cerevisiae if the content of
sucrose, glucose,maltose and other carbohydrates is high in the aerated medium.
To prevent the Crabtree effect from taking over, Danish and German workers took
to adding incrementally larger amounts of carbohydrates to keep the overall
fermentable sugar content below 1% or so at any time. Under these conditions
in the presence of oxygen, no alcoholic fermentation takes place and yeast
growth is good.
M&BS says on P456:
If the glucose concentration in the growth medium is high, say over 1%, the
Pasteur effect is no longer effective in Sacc. species. Even in the presence of
air, the degradation of high concentrations of glucose proceeds very
substantially by alcoholic fermentation.
Malting and Brewing Science made a plot of yeast yield versus oxygen saturation
before fermentation and I extracted some representative results below:
Oxygen Saturation (%) Max.Yeast Yield (g/l)
5 8
10 10
20 12
50 13
100 13
It is clear that it is useless to saturate the wort beyond 25% in terms of
yeast
population growth in normal fermentation of beer. In fact it makes me wonder
"Why bother?" if population growth is the only issue here. A discussion on
production of various by-products ( i.e. esters, aldehydes) seems to be the
issue here then.
M&BS p 506-507
"The condition of the yeast on pitching depends on its previous history. It has
been shown that lack of contact between yeast and oxygen over successive
fermentation has a cumulative effect. Thus, in a series in which wort used had
only 0.5 ul/l of dissolved oxygen, the percentage apparent attenuation.... fell
successively from 67 to 65.5 to 44%, the balance of fusel alcohols,esters,and
diketones was abnormal. In some instances increasing dissolved oxygen levels
over 6 ul/l has little effect, but with other yeasts there is advantage in
oxygenating the wort rather than aerating it to achieve over 8 ul/l Lack of
oxygen, particularly coupled with with a shortage of unsaturated fatty acids,
leads to a progressive fall in viability."
- ------------------------------------------------------------
I have been trying to get a number which will represent the solubility of
oxygen
in water in ppm so I can figure out if 10 ppm is the maximum solubility, 10 %
of
that value or what and have really failed to get anything that makes sense. I
tried the following things:
1) Oxygen solubility in water is 2.3 X 10^ -5 as mole fraction solubility at
one atmosphere.( Chem Rubber Handbook p 6-3) To convert this to ppm, a mole of
water weighs 18 g/ mole so 2.3 x 10^ -5 moles of oxygen (2.3 X32X10^ -5 ) =
7.36
x1-^ -5 g of oxygen in 18 gr of water or 1000000/18 = 55555 so (5.55 X 10^ 4 )X
7.36X^ -5 = 4.08 grams of oxygen per million grams of water. So the solubility
of oxygen at RT and 1ATM is 4.08 ppm of oxygen. This is what I calculate as the
solubility of oxygen in water. How can a level of 10 ppm be achieved unless the
meter was wrong or I converted this incorrectly or the solubility of oxygen in
wort is higher than in water?
2) M&BS reports this as ul/l is this what is meant by ppm in the case of a gas
and a liquid? Does this mean the solubility of oxygen is (2.3/22.4)X10^ -5 or 1
X10-6 l/ 18gr water or 55 ppm ?
This has me stumped and I don't where else to go. Anyone have a separate
reference listing a maximum solubility value in ppm oxygen or see my mistake?
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Although conventional starter methods appear to work OK for me, based on the
above comments and references, I now think the proper way to prepare a starter
is to add sterile air or oxygen continuously, add sterile maltose solution
periodically to keep the concentration of sugars below 1% . I think I'll try
it. Any comments? Anyone tried it?
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
103164.3203@compuserve.com
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 08:39:36 -0700
Subject: Teflon vs. plastic vs. glass vs. stainless steel
Hi again!
George Fix's post about the glass-lined fermenters with hairline
cracks got me thinking: why not teflon-lined tanks?
Aside from the expense, what's wrong with the idea? Teflon is great
stuff: practically inert, extremely easy to clean, can withstand a
wide range of temperatures, etc.
The only other downside to it (that I can see) is the ease with which
it is scratched, but in a fermenter that shouldn't be a problem.
Anybody see anything wrong with this idea? I have no affiliation with
DuPont, etc.
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 08:33:39 -0700
Subject: RE: Watery beer / sanitizing corks for mead
Hi all!
Kevin asks why his beer is watery. He says that he uses a double
decoction, but doesn't give any more detail than that.
My guess would be that he is resting the main mash between 113-124F
for too long. Most decoction schedules in the popular books say to
bring the entire mash to ~122F, then rest 30 min. and pull the
decoction, etc. In my experience it is detrimental to leave the main
mash at 122F for the long time that it takes to perform the decoction.
Because proteins are so important to both the body and head retention
of beer, an overlong protein rest is not desirable (especially at the
lower end of the protein rest spectrum). The double decoction
schedule I usually follow is detailed pretty well on page 121 of this
years "Zymurgy" (so-called) Special Issue.
In short, I leave the main mash at 95F while performing the first
decoction, return the decoction to step up to 122F, rest 20-30 min.
and then heat the entire mash to ~145-150F. I then pull the second
decoction and use it to step up to 158F. It's easy to not overshoot
the temp. if you let the decoction cool (because of it's low water
content it seems to lose heat pretty quickly).
Some pros I know say that modern malts are all well modified enough
that you don't need any protein rest at all, but sometimes I do it
anyway, and as long as it's kept to under 30 minutes I haven't had
heading problems or watery beer.
------------------------------
Another Kevin asks about sanitizing corks for his mead. I probably
shouldn't brag about this, but in my experience you don't need to
sanitize the corks.
I say this because I have had a batch of mead aging in a carboy for
some time now (over 1.5 years). It is in the same room I grind my
grain in. The airlock dried up months ago, and my big, black, furry
housemate has knocked the stopper out several times.
The mead refuses to rot. It's becoming kind of a conversation piece.
I recently took it to a club meeting to see what people thought
(without first telling them its history). The only complaint was that
it was "too clean."
I realize that I'm probably just lucky, but when you think about it,
what bugs are going to like a nutrient poor, high alcohol environment?
For those of you that are wondering why I don't just drink the stuff,
the truth is that this mead is too bland for my palate, and I'm not
often looking to drink something that ~14% ABV. I'll just keep
sipping it slowly...
Have Fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: Chris P Crigger <chris_p.crigger@twva.med.navy.mil>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:20:09 -0500
Subject: Farm Fresh October Beer extravaganza
Anyone in the Va Beach area (or close)...
the 25th and 26th is a beer tasting event.
It is at the 24th st park, and they will have
lots of food, fun, and uhh BEER. Farm Fresh has the
biggest selection of micros in a grocery store, that
I have seen!
Sorry don't know the cover, but ity should be fun!!!
chris
------------------------------
From: John.E.Carsten@oklaosf.state.ok.us
Date: 24 Oct 96 09:19:02 -0500
Subject: RE: Chlorine, water and taste ... again
From: Michael Gerholdt replied to me ...
"John, can you taste or smell the chlorine at that concentration? I believe
the threshold for detection by humans is generally considered closer to 7
ppm. We have a public water supply due to the nature of the facility I
manage, and the requirement is to keep at or above 1 ppm free chlorine,
suggested between 1 and 4 ppm. "
Michael: You have taken this discussion FAR beyond my realm of expertise
(Hmmmmm. Imagine that, somebody on the HBD who is willing to admit fault).
Anyway,
the advice I posted is advice that I received, used, and found success in. The
chlorine
concentration of our water was documented for my by a quick check with our
city's public
works department.
The solution was offered to me by the president of our brewclub, who
consequently lives four
doors down and uses the same water supply that I do. He gave me the shpeil
about the chlorine and
ammonia bonding, and the use of carbon filters.
To my rather un-scientific mind, the argument sounded logical, and with
everything else I've spent on
brewing equipment, a $15 water filter seemed like a good risk. So I purchased
the filter and tried an
experiment. The results are posted below:
Without using the filter - water tasted like it came from a swimming pool.
With the filter - the water tasted better than when I didn't use the filter.
I was convinced. Keep it simple.
John Carsten
"If it tastes good, drink it. If you can do something to make it taste better,
do that and drink more of it".
------------------------------
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@li.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:18:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Lactic Forming
I plan on making my white beer tomorrow. I was thinking of mashing
in the grains tonight at 110F and letting sit until the morning.
I guess I am hoping to lower the ph by letting it sit for 12+ hours.
I would then raise to 128F for 30 mins and then take to 158F for
1 hour. Grain bill is 12 lbs pilsner, 10 lbs bulgur wheat, 2 lb oats.
My questions are:
Will this overnight rest lower the ph and form the lactic acid I want?
Do I have to worry about enzyme degradation?
Is there something else I should be worrying about?
Should I acidify my sparge water? To what ph?
How do I cut the top off a keg?
If I'm not thinking it, I'm drinking it,
John Varady
John Varady http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady/index.html
Boneyard Brewing Co. "The HomeBrew Recipe Calculating Program"
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow."
------------------------------
From: Ron Schneckloth <rschneck@ichips.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 06:26:31 -0700
Subject: Conversion from Extract to All Grain
I have a couple of extract recipes I would like to try but I would
like to brew them with all grain. I have not been able to find
any thing on how to convert from an extract to an all grain beer.
I have looked in several books and still nothing. Can any one out
there brewer's land tell me or guide me to a conversion formula and
maybe give me some helpful hints. It would be greatly appreciated.
Continuous Flow Brewmaster
Ron Schneckloth
Email: rschneck@ichips.intel.com
------------------------------
From: jucks@cfaft4.harvard.edu (Ken Jucks, ph # 617-496-7580)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:47:11 -0400
Subject: Alternatives to AHA
It is my understanding that there has been an alternative to the
AHA for many many years, YOUR LOCAL HOMEBREWING CLUB!!!!!!
Your local club can provide you with friendly and personal advice
and information that can have the BIGGEST impact on your own
brewing practices. Such clubs can be great sources of info for the
best local places to purchace equipment, supplies, and great beer.
These clubs can provide both the beginning and experienced brewer with
alot of advice for improving your beer. And the best part of your
local club is that you get to make alot of friends who have similar
interests to you.
I live in New England and know of several excellent local homebrew
clubs in every one of the tiny states we have up here. I would
recommend most of them to any homebrewer. I am sure that most areas
of the country are similarly blessed.
Ken Jucks
jucks@cfa.harvard.edu
------------------------------
From: cathy <cathy@aob.org>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 08:58:23 -0700
Subject: AOB
As homebrew enthusiasts, many of us at the Association of Brewers
read the HBD. We do not, however, control or edit anything posted.
Upon reading recent postings, I feel it is important to comment that as
with all corporations our personnel issues are confidential.
We enjoy serving the brewing community and your constructive comments
are always welcome.
Cheers, Cathy
--
Cathy Ewing
Vice President
Association of Brewers (303) 447-0816 (phone)
736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 (fax)
PO Box 1679 cathy@aob.org (e-mail)
Boulder, CO 80306-1679 info@aob.org (aob info)
U.S.A. http://beertown.org/aob (web)
------------------------------
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 10:58:58 -0400
Subject: Re: HBD + AHA = BFD....
>>>>> "Carl" == Carl Hattenburg <CHattenburg@Perstorp-us.com> writes:
Carl> I don't get it. Does the AHA edit the HBD,
Carl> or ban good posters from posting?
I think that two factors are responsible for much of the decline in the
perceived quality of the HBD since the move to the AOB. These are:
1. removing the daily distribution limit, and
2. adding an undigested distribution mode.
A third factor is simply the steadily increasing number of
subscribers. Even with the best of intentions on everyone's part, the
more people subscribe, the more postings will be sent.
Before the move, the HBD was limited to about 50K bytes per day,
distributed once per day. If too many people sent postings, the delay
between posting and appearance got long, and people stopped posting.
This would not have worked without the ability to cancel postings,
something that has also been lost in the move. Unfortunately, this
limitation cannot work unless distribution is only by digest.
The undigested distribution mode encourages those who are using it to
respond immediately to new messages, producing a flood of messages on
the same topic, and leading to a tendency to "shoot from the lip".
When you know what you're about to say won't appear at least until the
next day, and will probably appear along with responses from several
others, you tend to think a bit more about what you're saying and how
you're saying it.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
From: brian1@iAmerica.net (waco tribune-herald)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 09:55:09 -0600
Subject: pumpkins
Re: the thread on pumpkins in brewing.
Most of the canned "pumpkin" you buy isn't really pumpkin. It's
acorn squash.
------------------------------
From: Derek Lyons <elde@hurricane.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 07:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: re: Killer Chiller Question
At 06:19 AM 10/24/96 -0400, you wrote:
>> From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
>>
>> I've got to go home and see if I put the hose adapters on the chiller
>> correctly. Or am I way off base here?
>>
>> Charley
>
>Yes, the cold water should go into the bottom of the chiller and exit out
>the top.
>
>However it depends on how fast your flow is, I know when I have
>mine on full blast, the water coming from the exit is *cold*!
>
If the water exiting your chiller is cold, then your chiller is not
functioning. The water should be *warm*, indicating that it has indeed
picked up heat while flowing thru the chiller.
>
>So, what do you gain from running the inlet to the bottom of the coil?
>water conservation, you can slow the water flow down and still chill.
>(say that three times fast:)
>
Nope, you lose overall, because the coldest part of the chiller remains in
contact with the coldest part of the wort. Any water savings is illusory.
The most efficient method is to flow from the top. Check your outlet
temprature and modulate water flow for maximum outlet temprature.
------------------------------
From: Derek Lyons <elde@hurricane.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 07:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Killer Chiller
At 08:06 PM 10/23/96 -0500, you wrote:
>
>While the killer chiller may be more efficient, I'm surprised nobody has
>mentioned another setup: using a double chiller. I'm a gadgeteer, but I had
>already purchased an immersion chiller: What to do? I took five feet of
>copper, a couple five foot chunks of plastic tubing, some clamps and
>connected this mini-immersion chiller to the inlet side of my main chiller.
>I put this in an icewater bath during the cooling. It drops two gallons (ok,
>I'm still in that awkward, adolescent extract stage :-) from boiling to
>~90degF in just under 20 minutes with no stiring and only the occasional
>chiller jiggling. I dump in a gallon of refrigerator chilled water (~50degF),
>swirl, transfer to primary, and top off to 5 gallons with more 'fridge
>chilled water. The batch is ready to pitch at just under 70degF.
>
>This setup was great over the summer when my tap water was 78degF >blech<
>
>Surely I am not the first to do this...I'm just not that smart :-)
>
There is a picture of a very similiar chiller setup in Papazian...
------------------------------
From: Derek Lyons <elde@hurricane.net>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 07:49:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: AHA: non-profit?
At 05:05 PM 10/23/96 -0700, you wrote:
>
>So the question is not whether the AHA/AOB makes a profit or not. Most
>assuredly, they do. The question, instead, is whether those profits are
>being spent to benefit its members, or spent to benefit its officers and
>staff. Since the AHA does not allow its members to take part in any
>decision making, the answer to this question is about what one would
>expect.
>
Rather than simply throwing vauge unsubstantiated stones, why not specify
what you expect the AHA to *do* for you.
It's east to simply throw suspicions, and there is plenty of that going around.
------------------------------
From: Barry Vanhoff <bvanhof@eecs.wsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 1996 08:04:23 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: Mash temps, quick ferment
> ><Barry had a hot mash and a quick fermentation (12 hours)>
> >
> >Charles Burns writes:
> >
> >> I think you're lucky that you had any fermentables left at all with 165F
> >> mash. <snip>
> >
> >The OG was 1.052. I am bottling tonight <snip>
>
> Question is, what's the FG? I'll guess that its really high,
> like 1.014-1.018?
FG was even higher than you predicted Charles ... 1.0<gulp>24. The beer
had an OK taste to it, but had this character to it I am unfamiliar
with, almost syrupy, not alot of alcohol.
If anyone can explain to me the processes that went on (or did not go on)
I'd be happy to hear it!
Barry Vanhoff
bvanhof@eecs.wsu.edu
------------------------------
From: cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us (Charles Burns)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 08:30 PDT
Subject: Re: chiller direction of flow
At 09:14 AM 10/24/96, Brian Pickerill wrote:
>
>Actually, I think that the cold water does need to go in at the bottom, but
>I never really understood why. (That's why I can't remember which way it
>has to go! :) I did have mine backwards, and there is some noticicable
>difference that was once talked about a LOT on the HBD (probably a year or
>two ago). I'm sure someone will post about this in the next issue... Most
>all the commercial ones are made the correct way. IF there is a chiller
>FAQ or a text file on the brewery web site or somesuch, I'm sure it will
>point this out also.
>
>Finally this is starting to make some sense, I don't remember any reasoning
>for it before (and didn't ponder it myself).
>
>Thanks,
>
>--Brian
>
>
This came in from another reader(KennyEddy@aol.com):
Charles Burns asks:
"Does this mean that we could get more efficient cooling by making sure that
the chiller "water input" side is the "bottom" of the coil and the exhaust
comes out the top?"
Actaully the opposite is true for the vertical coil. Colder water at the top
cools wort which "sinks", displacing warmer wort to "rise" into contact with
the cooler top coils. Running the cold water in at the bottom would result
in the cool wort staying on the bottom and the warm wort at the top staying
at the top.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
Charles Burns, Director, Information Systems
Elk Grove Unified School District
cburns@egusd.k12.ca.us, http://www.egusd.k12.ca.us
916-686-7710 (voice), 916-686-4451 (fax)
http://www.el-dorado.ca.us/~cburns/
------------------------------
From: hollen@vigra.com
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 96 08:35:09 PDT
Subject: Re: Fermenting in Corny Kegs??
This bounced back from Email to Chris, so please excuse the posting to
the HBD. I have trimmed off the attachment since it is very long, but
you can obtain it by giving me a valid Email address.
>> Chris Martin writes:
CM> I have recently acquired a number of Corny Kegs and was wondering if
CM> anyone out there uses them as Fermenters (Primary and/or Secondary).
CM> I reckon it would be easy enough to remove the gas-in connecter and
CM> replace it with a blow-off tube.
CM> My only real concern is the shape of the keg (tall and thin), and
CM> whether or not this affects fermentation/taste of the final product??
Yes, the geometry has an effect, but only on high gravity ferments or
if your yeast is on the edge and not sufficiently viable, or not of
sufficient quantity. I have been fermenting in kegs for 3 years and
35 batches. Do both primary and secondary. Attached is a little
writeup. Feel free to ask any questions.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2246
****************************
