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HOMEBREW Digest #2238
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/10/18 PDT
Homebrew Digest Friday, 18 October 1996 Number 2238
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Mike Donald, Digest Janitor-in-training
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Re: A-B; infected micros? (Jeff Frane)
Will a 5L mini keg filled with beer blow up if I take it on a plane? Will The world end Today? What about Submarines? If a train leaves Texas and another train leaves NYC? ((BEER-GOD-WORSHIP-ME-MORTALS))
ipa (Brian Dulisse-1)
Beer Names/Punkin Beer (eric fouch)
Re: Beer as a travel partner ((Erik Vanthilt))
Realbeer.com ("Jeffrey M. Kenton")
Re: trub/pumpkin beer ((Erik Vanthilt))
Pumpkin Ale experience (Mark Thompson)
hops and contamination (smurman@best.com)
Re: Yeast Washing (Joe Rolfe)
trub in fermenter (Brian Bliss)
freshness dating (Paul Brian)
racking off trub ("Bryan L. Gros")
Re: Drawing #1 (Spencer W Thomas)
Plastic ("Gregory, Guy J.")
Price Check: Big SS Pots ((Mike Spinelli))
Re: glass snobs ("Chuck and Grace Burkins")
blue corn (dutch)
re: glass snobs ((Michael A. Owings))
CP filling alternative (TEX28@aol.com)
URL for KJ's chiller design (Alex Santic)
Re: Aeration (Dennis Davison)
Re: Freshness dating ((Sean Cox))
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jeff Frane <jfrane@teleport.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:17:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: A-B; infected micros?
From: Carl Hattenburg <CHattenburg@Perstorp-us.com>
>
As thousands
>of attendees waited for the doors to open for the first night of
>tastings, an A-B pitchperson tried to recruit people to come over to
>their school. The crowd booed loudly. Pointing a guy out in the
>crowd, the pitchperson persisted, inviting him over. "I wouldn't drink
>your beer if you paid me," he said, which met cheers from the crowd.
>A-B may have to attend some schooling about the craft-beer
>audience.
Well, as a long-time member of the craft beer audience, I say if
A-B makes a good beer, I'll drink it. I might even start buying
beer in the grocery store if they do.
>
>From: michael j dix <mdix@dcssc.sj.hp.com>
>
>It used to be said that all microbrewed beer was infected, the
>difference was only in degree. In fact, I heard Dr. Michael Lewis
>say that in Davis, several years ago. In contrast, Dr. Lewis
>went on to say, the level of sanitation at a large commercial brewery,
>such as the AB brewery in nearby Fairfield, was far greater than in
>any operating room. (So much so, that were he to need open-heart
>surgery, he would request it done at Anheuser-Busch.)
>
>So, I am wondering if this is still true. (not counting mega-micros
>such as Sierra Nevada.) If it is, this is a point in favor
>of contract brewing. When I buy beer, I prefer it to be uninfected.
>
It used to be said, all right, but said by Michael Lewis. Years ago, I
took him a bottle of Bridgeport's Old Knucklehead, the first thing they
bottled, since Karl Ockert was a former student of Lewis'. Lewis handed
it to a graduate student (fellow named Guinard, who you may have heard
of) with the comment that he loved getting micro-brewed beer for his
students because otherwise they couldn't study beer infections.
Lewis knows a lot, granted, but he doesn't know everything and on some
subjects he is certifiably full of it.
The big question is, of course, what is the relevance of sanitation in
the brewery? If the point is to make good, flavorable beers on a consistent
basis, then surgical standards are useless. One only has to tour a
few old British breweries to determine that what we think of as essential
has little to do with the production of fine beer -- but, then, Lewis
doesn't really *like* beer; the man not only thinks A-B is technically
superior to craft breweries, he thinks they make better beer. (At dinner,
during a weekend course in brewpub operations, we were offered a choice
between Bud and badly-skunked Beck's. yum. I stuck to wine.) A few
years ago, Lewis addressed a conference and crabbed about all the
phenols in a specific beer -- a Bavarian weizenbier, in which the phenols
were not only appropriate, but deliberate. To Lewis, they were a sign
of contamination.
I have had beers that revealed problems with sanitation, although a
good many of them were brewpubs who were using the dried yeast recommended
to them by, ahem, Michael Lewis. Most of the bottled craft beers I've
had that were less than wonderful had problems that were in no way
related to bacterial problems, but rather poor brewing or poor bottling
procedure.
Not to mention that you are unlikely to get sick drinking bad beer
(isn't that your objection?). Pathogens do not grow in beer.
- --Jeff Frane
------------------------------
From: SMART-ASS@KORZONAS.COM (BEER-GOD-WORSHIP-ME-MORTALS)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:20:28 -0600
Subject: Will a 5L mini keg filled with beer blow up if I take it on a plane? Will The world end Today? What about Submarines? If a train leaves Texas and another train leaves NYC?
>From: Michael Haring <haring@hawaii.edu>
>Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 23:19:30 -1000
>Subject: [none]
>
>Howdy,
> Will a 5L mini keg filled with beer blow up if I take it on a plane?
That would be really cool. May I suggest the use of plastic explosives and
a strobe ignition on this type of device. You could also take the Bart
Simpson approach and have it shaken up really well at the local paint
store.
>Would I have to sneak it on the plane even if it wont?
Just tell the nice people at the gate (you know, the ones with the dogs and
guns) That a friend from Cypress packed your bags for you and they will let
you through with no problem (except for that pleasant cavity search).
>What about loaded bottles?
I found these real hard to get into the Casinos but if you can, boy do they
win the big bucks. GOOD LUCK!
- -Brew-God
------------------------------
From: Brian Dulisse-1 <Brian_Dulisse-1@sbphrd.com>
Date: 18 Oct 96 11:31:45 EDT
Subject: ipa
this is late- sorry, just getting caught up. a number of folks have said that
ipa in its traditional form is not available in england. i was there this
summer for a couple of weeks, and it is true that none of the ipas i had in the
pubs tasted like what we might expect. *however*, i took the fuller's tour,
and at the end they herd everyone into a small bar they have in the basement.
in theory, they're only supposed to give you a pint, but (on our tour at least)
they are willing to abandon strict construction and interpret that as "a pint
at a time . . ." in any event, in addition to the half dozen fuller's products
on handpumps, they also had a number of bottled products. many were the
fuller's products exported to the states (the guide told us that the esb and
london pride exported to the states are made to a higher gravity and had more
hop bitterness and flavor; side by side tastings makes this apparent); some
were fuller's products that are only sold in bottles, and solely in england.
one of these was an ipa, and it tasted more or less like what we might expect a
traditional ipa would taste like. several of the brits on the tour said they
had never seen bottles of this stuff anywhere; the guide said it was currently
in very limited distribution, but that they were considering increasing the
production run . . . just a data point
------------------------------
From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc@mcimail.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 12:51 EST
Subject: Beer Names/Punkin Beer
Date: Friday, 18 October 1996 1:48pm ET
To: STC012.HONLY@STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch@STC001
Subject: Beer Names/Punkin Beer
In-Reply-To: Homebrew Digest
Chuck dropped his xmas ale carboy down some steps. Well, Murphys Law took it
on the chin, since your carboy didn't break! It did kind of land sticky side
down but it didn't break. My advice is wait it out...you may have to call it
Hair of the Dog Xmas Landing Lambic, but relax, don't worry, and DRINK IT
FAST!
If you were as clumsy as me, you wouldn't have a problem with infection:
I once dropped a 7 gallon fermenter half full with bleach water down the
carpeted basement stairs. Lucklily, the wife wasn't home and I got it
shop vacc'ed up before much bleaching took place. Anyway, I am now confident
that I could scrape most anything off my sanitized steps, and not have to
worry about contamination.
Along the lines of punkin brew: After accepting a challenge on Skotrats
Brew-rat-chat page (yadda yadda), this weekend I'll be trying a punkin
ale in the following fashion:
Fit a LARGE pumpkin with my patent pending EasyMasher knockoff, mash 6#s
of grain and one can pre-boiled pumpkin stuff inside the pumpkin and sparge
from the pumpkin to the brewkettle. I'll adjust the gravity to about 1.06
with DME and corn syrup, hop with cascades, flavor with fuggles or something,
and spice it like a pie.
I'll post a follow-up on Monday and let you know if the mash set up like so
much plaster.
If you don't want to read about a high gravity hack brewing out of plastic
and pumpkins, better hit the page down on my tag line Monday!
If you want to offer advice or get in any last second digs, email me at
home:
fouches@mail.iserve.net
E-man
CEO
Bent Dick Yactobrewery
Kentwood, MI
------------------------------
From: erikvan@ix.netcom.com (Erik Vanthilt)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 10:56:41 -0700
Subject: Re: Beer as a travel partner
Michael Haring wrote:
>Will a 5L mini keg filled with beer blow up if I take it on a
>plane? Would I have to sneak it on the plane even if it wont? What
>about loaded bottles?
Michael, I'm not sure about the 5L mini keg, but I know for a fact
bottles are o.k. On a recent airline trip, homebrew traveled with me,
packed securely in my luggage. The bottles remained intact and no
problems were encountered. As far as I know, though, it is illegal
to transport alcohol across some state lines, so hide it well! As for
the mini keg, try it. What could possibly happen? See you on the
news...
Erikvan@ix.netcom.com
The Virtual Brewery
http://www.netcom.com/~erikvan/brewery.html
------------------------------
From: "Jeffrey M. Kenton" <jkenton@iastate.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:13:26 -0500
Subject: Realbeer.com
I tried to add myself to the Realbeerpage's mailing list at
rbp-request@realbeer.com
however, the mail server there bounced me, as there is no such address. I
tried again with the address cut and pasted from the posting in HBD 2236,
same result.
What is the real address?
Thanks for the space
Jeff
Jeffrey M. Kenton finger for PGP public key
ElEd/SecEd 301 Teaching Assistant
N013 Lagomarcino Hall
jkenton@iastate.edu
------------------------------
From: erikvan@ix.netcom.com (Erik Vanthilt)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:20:32 -0700
Subject: Re: trub/pumpkin beer
faymi@earlham.edu wrote:
>I've read some passing comments to disadvantages of leaving trub in
>fermenting wort. What's the scoop on that? How many of you rack off
>of trub and to what advantage exactly?
>I also would like to brew a pumpkin ale from fresh pumpkin. I've only
>gotten as far as partial mash-so anybody have a good recipe?
Many believe that straining hops before placing in carboy, and
transfering wort to a secondary prevents off flavors, among other
things. But I can't prove it. I've done both strained and unstrained,
single and dual fermentations, and can't notice much of a difference.
You can leave hops, etc. in your primary with no ill effects, but it
should be then racked to a secondary at the appropriate time. Look at
it this way- if you rack properly, no aeration, contamination, etc.,
then it in no way can harm your beer.
As for the Pumpkin Ale, I just brewed 7.5 gal of the stuff, and my
recipe seemed to work well. I did an extract, I find it easier with
fruit beers, using specialty grains. My recipe is as follows:
for 5 gallons:
7 lb pale malt extract syrup
1 lb crystal 60l
.5 lb cara-pils dextrine(optional)
1 oz cluster 60 min
.5 oz hallertaur 30 min
2/3 tsp ground cinnamon
1/2 tsp ground ginger
1/2 tsp ground nutmeg
1/2 tsp irish moss
wyeast #1056, american ale
Use a pumpkin about 12 pounds in size, carve, clean and peel. Do your
grains... add extract... start boil, add hops, at 30 min add pumpkin
and hallertaur hops, at 15 min add spices and irish moss. When boil is
done, remove pumpkin, add to carboy containing 2.5 gal water, pitch
yeast.
Haven't tried it yet, bottle it today, but it smells great.
Good luck on your pumpkin ale.
erikvan@ix.netcom.com
The Virtual Brewery
http://www.netcom.com/~erikvan/brewery.html
------------------------------
From: Mark Thompson <markt@hpdocp3.cup.hp.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:30:12 -0700
Subject: Pumpkin Ale experience
For those of you that read my post on wheat may think that
i LIKE stuck sparges, but i don't. Last year i made pumpkin
ale and i did get a stuck sparge. I added the pumpkin in at
the raise from 40-60dC and it took about 90 minutes to get
all the liquor out. This time i added the mush in at the
beginning of the 40dC rest. After 45 minutes i boosted
to 60 with hot water and heat. After the 70dC rest i boosted
to 75dC and started sparging. Flow wasn't as fast as normal
but it was much improved over last year. I think that the
40dC rest helped reduce the gums which allowed a reasonable
flow during the sparge.
- --
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
Mark E. Thompson mailto:mark_thompson@hp.com
Enterprise Objects Program Networked Computing Division
Hewlett-Packard Co. Cupertino CA
*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*
------------------------------
From: smurman@best.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 11:30:23 -0700
Subject: hops and contamination
This is actually a topical post given the recent discussion of IPA's.
I had my first contaminated batch recently, and I learned some things
that I thought were interesting, although I don't want to repeat them.
I saved some slurry from my primary, popped a fermentation lock on it,
and stuck it in the fridge. This was my first attempt at doing this
since I normally don't brew the same style twice in a row. Anyway,
the beasties in my fridge climbed through the lock in only two days
and partied on my slurry. I should have capped it. It wasn't
noticable when I pitched the slurry into the starter, but it sure was
later. I didn't pay attention to the starter (hey I've cultured from
old socks, I'm a pro ...) and just stuck it in the closet. I've
always wondered how to spot a contamination. Let me assure you it's
unmistakable. The entire starter had a strange ropy cloudiness to it,
and it smelled like something went bad in Jersey. I've since learned
my lesson, and have a package of dry yeast sitting in the fridge for
emergency.
Anyway, back to my point. Here I am with a fermenter full of English
Bitter and a contaminated starter and no hope of getting any other
yeast for at least 48 hours. I quickly reached that state that all
men have come to at some time - "Fuck It", and pitched the bad
starter. The wort was hopped with about 40 IBU's. The volatile
ferment, if you could call it that, lasted about three days and was
notable mainly for the stench it continued to give off. I almost had
to toss the whole thing 'cause it was coming out the closet and
stinking up my bedroom. DMS would have been welcome. At seven days I
racked it to my secondary, on top of both the yeast cake and the
dry-hop bag from my last batch. The gravity was only 1.020. I took a
reading from it at 11 days and the gravity was still dropping,
although there are no visible signs of fermentation. The surprising
thing to me at both 7 and 11 days was that I could barely taste the
contamination. It was definately there in the form of a sourness, but
it wasn't the worst beer I've ever made (I'll leave that for another
post).
I think two things helped. The first is the wort was pretty highly
hopped to begin with, so some of the bacteria growth was probably
eliminated, and eventually the yeast could get an upper hand (the
starter had some hops but not much). More importantly, the high
bitterness covers up much of the bad taste; it simply tastes like a
bitter ale. The second thing I think helped is the dry hopping. This
gave a nice hop aroma and some flavor which also masks the sourness.
This whole episode really showed me how some of the older brews
probably tasted, and also how some of the brewing practices such as
IPA's probably came into favor. Don't view bacteria as your enemy,
see them as an opportunity to experiment:).
SM
P.S. I've named the beer E.S.Bacterium.
------------------------------
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc@shore.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 14:37:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Yeast Washing
for the persons requesting info on yeast washing.......
yes phosphoric acid can do the trick.
yes it will hamper the yeast and maybe kill thm if ph and time is
not watched - you best have a real good ph meter...
and it will make them clean bacteria wise but if you have any wild
ones in there - they will surely love it...and prosper
the ph should not go below - if i remember, 2.1 for 1 hour
there is an overnite wahs of 2.7 for 12 hours or so.... getting the yeast
real cold with a dilution of sterile water also helps.
siebels has an acid wash packet with info (no connection, just satified
customer) and it works well.
the yeast will ususally appear very sluggish after the wash, and the first
beer should be blended, the subsequent batches will be better, getting back
to normal fermentation characteristics.
the two big points watch the time of contact, pitch right away after
wash is complete, and insure consistent ph thru the slurry and stirr well.
good luck
joe
------------------------------
From: Brian Bliss <brianb@microware.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 13:40:48 CDT
Subject: trub in fermenter
faymi@earlham.edu writes:
>I've read some passing comments to disadvantages of leaving trub in fermenting
>wort. What's the scoop on that? How many of you rack off of trub and to what
>advantage exactly?
well, one advantage is that a little trub can provide nutrients to
enhance yeast growth, but I won't go into that part of it...
Noonan says that a major difference between scottish and english brewers
is that scottish brewers allow more trub to be transferred to the fermenter,
and that this, in combination with particualar yeast strains, is responsible
for the "smokey" phenolic character of many scotch ales, and a host of other
fermentation-by products which cause objectionable off-flavors at first, but
can degrade into much more pleasant tastes over time.
By contrast, most english ales are quite clean in this regard.
I couldn't agree more. I feel is it of the utmost importance to separate the
trub from the beer prior to fermentation for MOST beer styles, but that it is
important to allow some trub in the fermenter for scotch ale. I also allow
a little trub in the fermenter when making lambics, but that's about it.
bb
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Paul Brian <pbrian@Tudor.Com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 15:01:30 -0400
Subject: freshness dating
Just another data point on the freshness dating thread-
Yesterday I noticed that Red Hook has changed from a 'best before' date to
a 'bottled on' date on their labels. I doubt it's a coincidence that this
change coincides with A-B's 'born on' campaign. And we thought the
relationship
between these two companies was just in distribution!
Cheers,
Paul
------------------------------
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 13:39:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: racking off trub
Michael writes:
>I've read some passing comments to disadvantages of leaving trub in fermenting
>wort. What's the scoop on that? How many of you rack off of trub and to what
>advantage exactly?
This topic is what someone in a previous digest was referring to in Brewing
Techniques.
Basically, (from memory), someone wrote in saying they have made around 80
batches of beer and never had a decent fermentation. Long lag times, sluggish
fermentation, and high FG. They tried improvements, bought an aerator, then
went to pure O2, bigger starters, yeast nutrient etc. Then he discovered the
problem (maybe).
Seems that he normally ran the wort from the kettle to the carboy, waited
overnight for the break to settle out, then racked off the sediment and
pitched.
Fermentation was normal when he finally pitched immediately and didn't
rack. Seems like the yeast didn't work well without the trub.
Well, various BT experts chimed in their opinions about this "experiment" and
they weren't especially convinced that trub is a necessary ingredient in a
healthy fermentation.
I've read that trub often contains things (like lipids, trace minerals etc)
which
can help yeast growth, especially if the wort is under-aerated. But if you're
pumping in pure O2, then the yeast should reproduce and ferment normally
even w/o the trub.
Any of our resident brewing chemists want to address this issue? As for me,
I don't bother racking off the trub before primary fermentation. I'm too lazy,
and I'm happy with the clarity and attenuation of my beer.
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:23:05 -0400
Subject: Re: Drawing #1
In digest 2230, Ken Sullivan wrote:
> I designed and made a truly great wort chiller! ...
I've put together a web page with the drawings and the original
message, at my beer page, <http://realbeer.com/spencer/>. Follow the
link to "Frequently asked questions", then "Other equipment", then
"Immersion chiller by Ken Sullivan".
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461@ecy.wa.gov>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 12:39:00 PDT
Subject: Plastic
A lot has been written lately between "Oz"zies and US readers about plastic.
centering on potential for oxidation in plastic. It turns out that the type
of plastic is important in understanding how real this potential is. Robert
M. Koerner, in his book "Designing with Geosynthetics", discusses
permeability of various plastics for use as landfill liners. The test for
permeability of these plastics is done using water vapor, according to ASTM
test D96, measuring the amount of water vapor which is transmitted through
various plastic compounds. The test uses water vapor rather than liquid
because plastics do transmit vapors and gases easier than liquids (pretty
intutitve, right?) and they can easily set up an extreme humidity gradient
to get results in less than a lifetime. Representative values from this
book are : Thermoplastic PVC (Polyvinyl chloride, 0.76 mm thick) transmits
4.4 grams water vapor per square meter per day; the thermoplasic elastomer
CSPE (Hypalon, 0.89 mm thick) transmits 0.44 grams per square meter per day;
and the crystalline thermoplastic HDPE (High Density Polyethylene, 0.80 mm
thick) transmits 0.017 grams per square meter per day.
HDPE, then, is at least 3 orders of magnitude less permeable than PVC to
water vapor.
Other vapors and gases will have similar values of permeability,
proportional to their molecular size and attraction of the material. A test
for this is ASTM D1434, I think.
In general, I think that HDPE, being non-chemically reactive (it cannot be
glued, it must be heat joined), and having a very low permeability is a
reasonable choice which will probably avoid oxidation due to the material
alone above the taste threshold of any other than the most anal beer judge.
Obviously, YMMV. In the US, paint buckets are often made of HDPE. PVC is
relatively permeable, and is indeed reactive chemically (though perhaps not
with beer) so is probably a poor choice. Lots of "food grade" buckets are
made with PVC. They get pretty limp when hot, say in a zapap lauter tun.
Scratching is another issue, though HDPE is very tough relative to PVC. I
brew in glass, because glass carboys are available and cheap here, as well
as being easy to clean. I used to brew in HDPE buckets, and made good beer
IMHO.
The tone of the conversation thus far suggests to me that we US'ers are
overafraid of oxidation reactions and scratching of proper plastic, and I
think the "Oz"zies are overconcerned about the danger of glass carboys.
Lets relax, OK? Brew with what ya got. What kinda plastic are you using,
mates? It does make a difference.
GuyG4@aol.com
Guy Gregory
Lightning Creek Home Brewery
------------------------------
From: paa3983@dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 96 14:48:11 edt
Subject: Price Check: Big SS Pots
HBDers,
I found a source that has food grade 55 gallon SS drums (used) for $350 a
piece.
They also have SS pots (used) in the 30-40 gallon range for $300 each. Lids
are not included with these.
Are these prices good/average or high?
Thanks
Mike Spinelli in Cherry Hill NJ
------------------------------
From: "Chuck and Grace Burkins" <burkins@oa.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 06:43:35 -0400
Subject: Re: glass snobs
Andrew writes:
> PS. So why is it OK in practice to lager in plastic, when plastic
is
> clearly more oxygen permeable than glass? I'm not sure, but here
are
> some thoughts:
> - the oxygen transfer into the beer through the plastic is *very*
slow.
> - lagering still tends to take place on a reasonable amount of
yeast. As
> has been posted many times before, yeast is an excellent reducing
agent.
> Megaswill is very prone to oxidation as it is devoid of live yeast.
>
How about the solubility of Oxygen being nil in a solution which is
saturated in carbon dioxide? If this was the protective mechanism,
how long into the lagering period would it last?
Chuck Burkins, Dedham, Mass. USA
burkins@oa.net
------------------------------
From: dutch <leake.5@osu.edu>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 15:48:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: blue corn
hello all
I've been on vacation and very busy so have not gotten the hbd for two
months or so. I'm back now and am happy to see everyone is still putting out
plenty of info. I have some on brewing with blue corn meal and even though
it's a little late (I'm still busy) here it is.
Three weeks ago I brewed a batch (5 gal) of beer using 2lb of blue corn
meal. The other grains were 7 1/2lb Ireks pils malt and 1/2 lb Ireks lt.
crystal, 2-3 lovibond. Yeast american 1056 hops hal. hersbrucker @ 3.2 (1
1/2 oz to bitter no finishing woops) The run off was horrible! The blue corn
meal was ground too fine, maybe? When I started recirculating the runnings
were cloudy but cleared very quickly, good, but i latter realized that much
of what was clouding the runnings were betta glucans (I think.) These formed
an impermeable to water layer on top of my grain bed. I collected runnings
for a total of four hours including two reheatings on the stove and
restirings after the heatings. I quit with only three gal. of wort which I
diluted after boiling to make five gal. total. Each time I disturbed the bed
I recirculated the cloudy runnings hopeing the glucans would get stuck
throughout the grain bed but his did not happen. Oh before I added the corn
to the mash I cooked it for 20 min. at a simmer. I added the corn to 1 1/2
gal boiling water and it was very lumpy next time I would add the water to
the corn.
If I did this beer again with the same ingredients I would put a layer of
cheese cloth on top of the grain bed and after recircing lift the cloth and
hopefully the impermeable layer.
I said before that I thought the corn meal was too fine because I was
thinking that if the corn was not so fine the glucan particles would be
bigger and get stuck throughout the grain bed and therefor not be such a
problem. I am not sure this is would happen though. Also most books talk
about brewing with flaked corn or grits. Grits are coarser than meal and
flaked is made from grits.
On using whole corn I would not advise this. Corn has a fat high fat
content, around 20% I think. Most of this fat is in the germ which is
removed before making corn meal and grits. The corn meal I used had a fat
content of 1.4% which is a little high for brewing (I like to keep
ingredients under 1% fat.)
Now how is my beer. The stating gravity was 1038. The gravity when racking
into the secondary (4 days) was 1012. The beer was balanced toward the
sweet. I panicked when I collected so little wort and cut way back on the
hops and forgot to compensate for a somewhat concentrated boil. Other than
this the beer was good, corny but good. The color was darker than I expected
some of which was due to the blue corn and some was due to a long boil for
some of the runnings. I did not want them to get cold so on the burner they
sat. I was hoping for purple after I saw the corn in the mash but most of
the purple stayed in the glucans. They were still intensely purple when I
threw them into the compost. The beer did have a strange orange tint though
at racking. I hope to bottle it Wed. and can update anyone who is interested.
------------------------------
From: mikey@waste.com (Michael A. Owings)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 20:26:23 GMT
Subject: re: glass snobs
Actually, Mister, we prefer to be called "The World-Wide Glass
Carboy Cabal" (or WGCC for short), and you can bet that as soon as we
finish picking these shards out of our a** , we're gonna come
looking for you ...
Yadda, yadda -- but seriously -- I don't find that cleaning the
carboys is really much of a chore. Handling and storing them however
is a tremendous pain. I've broken TWO (count 'em) in the last year.
A rake fell on one stored in the garage, and as I related to the HBD
last year, I bumped another on the concrete rim of my outdoor drain
while emptying it of sanitizing solution, and it just sort of ...
exploded. It was kind of neat, actually, except for the lacerations
on my wrist. Yeah, I know. Use a carboy handle, or a milk crate,
or whatever. Yadda, yadda (see what a useful phrase that is?)
I have taken to doing my primaries now in a 10 gallon stainless pot w/
a tight fitting lid, and have considered switching to the standard
HDP buckets for use as a secondary (I always lager and serve from
corny kegs). Andy, do you feel the extra head space in the bucket
poses a problem for secondary use? I gather the HDP cubes you mention
are somewhat more airtight than the buckets (assuming I'm thinking of
the right HDP cubes).
Thanx in advance ,
Michael Owings, =20
Comptroller, WGCC =20
***********************
Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.
The courage to change the things I can. *** And the wisdom to=20
hide the bodies of the people I had to kill because they pissed=20
me off ***
------------------------------
From: TEX28@aol.com
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:05:42 -0400
Subject: CP filling alternative
Thanks for all the responses to my impending high-pressure bottling disaster.
Actually I was not clear on my process. I intended to counter pressure fill
at 5-10 psi to reduce foaming, but as several people have warned, foaming is
unavoidable at room temps. As I have no extra fridge, the idea is to fill &
refrigerate 'to go' bottles as necessary while keeping the remaining kegged
beer safe at home, always at the ready for a spontaneous road trip. I have
found an alternative. A company called Liquid Bread (no affiliation, etc.,
etc.) makes a $10 device called 'The Carbonator'. Basically it is a corny keg
'in' valve adapted to screw onto a PET bottle. Fill your bottle, screw on the
device, hook up your CO2 & shake. A couple minutes later - carbonated beer!
(or anything else for that matter.) I can fill bottles straight from my keg
at a low pressure with minimum foaming. Just put a foot of tubing on the
cobra faucet to reach the bottom of the bottle. The best thing since liquid
bread! (sorry, I had to.) Our tailgate is saved!
Thanks to all, Chris
------------------------------
From: Alex Santic <alex@brainlink.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:22:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: URL for KJ's chiller design
I've given a temporary Web home to Ken Sullivan's wort chiller design
drawings. If you wish to view them with your browser, just hit the
following URL:
http://www.salley.com/chill/
Alex Santic
NYC
------------------------------
From: Dennis Davison <ddavison@execpc.com>
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 16:38:12 +0600
Subject: Re: Aeration
Bill Giffin mentions:
>So far I have used most of the yeast the Wyeast has provided as well as
>many from the other yeast labs. I have never had a difficult
>fermentation with any of these yeast and all the fermentations completed
>in a reasonable time. So the copper tubing doesn't increase the O2 much
>but it seems to provide enough.
>Wort pH, nutrients in the wort, temperature of the wort, and the amount
>of yeast slurry pitch have about as much affect on the fermentation asdo
>the amount of O2 in the wort.
You are correct Bill. There are several variables that must be
considered. For the tests that I did, a 1 liter starter was I used. I
feel that this is really to small, 250ml of pure slurry would be better,
but most homebrewers don't re-pitch thier slurry, they just pop another
packet or start a new vial. Also the article states that there were not
any major changes in flavor associated with higher levels of DO. I noted
the fermentation characterisitcs. I never studied what the lowest level
of DO could be and maybe that's something to look at for future tests.
Amounts of DO will be disputed and talked about for years to come. I
just touched the tip of the iceberg by giving homebrewers some idea as
to the levels they are achieving with various methods. Al is correct in
that each yeast strain can require a different level of O2. Late kettle
hopping could also be effected by over aeration. There are hundreds of
tests and experiments that could be run for the right people.
- --
Dennis Davison mailto:ddavison@execpc.com
BJCP Representative for the Midwest
BJCP President
http://www.execpc.com/~ddavison/bjcp.html
------------------------------
From: scox@factset.com (Sean Cox)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 17:38:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Freshness dating
>From: Rob Moline <brewer@kansas.net>
> If you look at freshness dating, it appears to be a noble concept,
>but what does it really mean in terms of different beers? An American
>pilsener may indeed need to tossed after 120 days, but what about beers like
>Big 12 Barleywine? It is my feeling that it should easily last and continue
>to improve for a decade or more! (As long as it is packaged properly and
>stored correctly.)
Actually, a recent experience showed me how long cheesy American
"Pilseners" can actually last. My wife & I had a party a few weeks ago, and
two friends brought Coors Extra Gold (it was mostly-BYOB, some friends don't
appreciate homebrew), one of them brought some from a party he had a couple
weeks earlier, the other brought some that he'd had in his fridge for "a while"
that someone noticed had a "National Firefighters Week 1994" (yes, ninety-four)
on the front. None of the people who tried the brews could tell them apart...
Kinda scary, huh?
--Sean
_______________________________________________________
Sean Cox, Systems Engineer FactSet Research Systems
scox@factset.com Greenwich, CT
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2238
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