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HOMEBREW Digest #2158
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/08/23 PDT
Homebrew Digest Friday, 23 August 1996 Number 2158
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
OOPS !!! I posted the wrong subject line ("Braam Greyling")
pointy-headed books (Andy Walsh)
discarding trub (TMCASTLE@am.pnu.com)
The Guinness Saga! (Pete Finlay)
ring around the collar ((Mike Uchima))
DME (was: Freezing yeast again) (Cory Wright)
Guiness III (Renato Bugge)
reverse sexism (egross@emory.edu)
Hop vines ("Alexander S. MacGillivray RN")
Breweries in NC ("Brescia, Robert J")
I Wish Irish Moss Worked (KennyEddy@aol.com)
HBD Archives (Domenick Venezia)
RE: Partial decoction ((George De Piro))
Must See Brewpubs in SF ("ESCHOVIL.US.ORACLE.COM")
Cinnamon Spiced Ale (John Gibbons)
Re: HBD Archives ((Shawn Steele))
Re: BreWater program (KennyEddy@aol.com)
Anyone in NJ Area Interested in Teaching a Beer Class? ((Stephen Buonocore))
[none] (RUCKARJ@towers.com)
mash temps/dextrins (M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac))
bleach heresy? ("Ray Robert")
Heated Wyeast storage. (tamu2000)
My first lager (Eric White)
O/N mashes,dial thermometer ("David R. Burley")
[none] ("CHUCK HUDSON, ER LAB 3-2865")
Wild yeast infection/phenolic/medicinal taste (Ian Smith)
False bottoms/tubes ("Gregory, Guy J.")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Braam Greyling" <acg@knersus.nanoteq.co.za>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:31:49 +200
Subject: OOPS !!! I posted the wrong subject line
Extremely sorry.
My previous posting should have been : Sanitizing Air
Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer
Nanoteq (Pty) Ltd
tel. +27 (12) 665-1338 fax +27 (12) 665-1343
- ---- 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case ----
- ---- coincidence ????? ----
------------------------------
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh@crl.com.au>
Date: Sun, 23 Aug 1998 20:51:54 -0700
Subject: pointy-headed books
Steve Alexander asks:
>Does anyone have an opinion on 'Brewing Science' from Academic Press,
>by Pollack(sp?). Academic press has many fine books in their food
>science series, but I'm not anxious to part with $150 buck unless this
>is a *great* book.
It is a 3 volume set *edited* by J. Pollock. Each volume would cost around
$150 (the IOB sells each for 119 pounds!). It is a great series. I do
not own it, but borrow it from the library occasionally. It is probably
better than Hough overall, but you'd have to be *incredibly* keen to buy
the set.
>I also came across a reference to volume 4 of a multi-volume book
>called "Brewing Science and Technology" in a 1995 Journal of the
>Institute of Brewing (a british journal). I have no publisher or
>author or other info. It's probably british and probably fairly
>recent. It was referenced in several places in an article discussing
>answers to the most recent Master Brewers examination - (which BTW
>looks like a pretty tough test). Basically it looks like this book
>set contains many of the answers. Does anyone have info on this one ?
The IOB publish a series of "Blue Books" (vols 1 - 4; 4 is on
engineering) which are designed as a study guide for people intending
to sit the exam for Associate Membership of the IOB. Even this exam
is a very tough one. The Master Brewer's exam is much harder and is
designed for brewsters who have completed postgraduate studies in
brewing. The Blue books are quite poorly written, and not very
comprehensive (ie. Hough is much better). The IOB are currently rewriting
the series which is due for release very soon. (the blue books have the
title Steve mentions).
The IOB are an international organisation (not just British), with
sections worldwide. There is a North American section, Asia/Pacific
section etc.
>Other books ? "Malting and Brewing Science" is well known with a
>second edition around 1981. Is anyone aware of better newer books
>along this line ?
You're much better off reading journals such as, the Journal of the
Institute of Brewing, Brauwelt, Technical Quarterly of the Master
Brewers Association of the Americas, and Journal of the American Society
of Brewing Chemists. Find a library that has them (any university with
a Food Technology undergraduate course should have a sprinkling of these).
Recent brewing textbooks include:
Handbook of Brewing by W. Hardwick 1994.
Brewing, by MJ. Lewis 1995.
The Biotechnology of Malting and Brewing, J. Hough 1985
Brewing Microbiology, FG Priest 1995.
Fermented Beverage Production, A Lea, 1994.
I haven't seen any of the above, but they are available from Hampton
Publishing, 97 Station Rd., Hampton, Middlesex. phone 0181-941 7750
fax 0181-941 7721. UK.
The IOB also has annual conference proceedings available for sale. These
are also an excellent source of information. The IOB can be contacted
at 33 Clarges St., London. W1Y 8EE. phone 0171 499 8144.
Andy "I can't believe anyone found this remotely interesting" Walsh.
------------------------------
From: TMCASTLE@am.pnu.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:26:16 -0400
Subject: discarding trub
Beeroids,
I routinely discard my spent grain after sparging into my compost
pile (I haven't gotten that bread thing down yet). On my last batch
in late Spring (yes, I'm one of those who doesn't brew in the
summer), I added the trub from the primary fermentation into the
compost pile as well - which I usually don't do as I reuse it or
flush down the drain. ANYWAYS....
I think it killed my compost pile. I've worked most of the summer
trying to revive the vile smelling pile of rot. Can the yeast
overcome the compost bacteria that well? IS MY COMPOST PILE RUINED?
your pal,
tom castle
tmcastle@ix.netcom.com
The Zen of Homebrewing http://www.netcom.com/~tmcastle
------------------------------
From: Pete Finlay <pete@meads.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:27:52 +0100
Subject: The Guinness Saga!
In message <9608221804.aa10633@bacchus.aob.org>, Homebrew Digest
REQUESTS <homebrew-digest-request@AOB.ORG> writes
>Chuck asks:
>
><Several days ago, Pete Finlay of England posted an interesting note
><about a brewery tour at Guinness. He said that the knowledgeable former
><Guinness employee leading the tour reported that Guinness mashes at 158.
>
>Sounds reasonable but only after 30-60 minutes at 140F.
>
><This surprised me, given the dryness of Guinness stout.
>
>Yup, not possible with only a 158F rest.
I checked what the guy told me. They use a one step mash process at 70C
(158F) for two hours, after striking at 76C.
I have no reason to doubt the guy, after all, he had been a Guinness
Brewer for 30 years or so. And he wasn't vague when I asked him the
mashing temp - he was very precise about it. It is possible that their
yeast strain plays a part in the final flavouring and dryness, but I
couldn't get a sample :(
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
Pete Finlay. . . in England
<<I brew, therefore I am>>
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
------------------------------
From: uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:10:29 -0500
Subject: ring around the collar
Dan <DJTIM@delphi.com> sez:
>
> Jeff asked in HBD #2151
>
> h>"Is a ring around the neck of a bottle ALWAYS a bad sign?" (he asked
> h>infectiously)
>
> The best I can answer this is that "I don't think so." I have had a
> number of brews with some sort of ring around the neck but the beer the
> beer tasted fine when I started drinking that particular batch and even
> better at the last bottle. So my conclusion has been that it isn't an
> infection. I'm guessing but I think it maybe some left over break
> material that won't settle.
>
> Something that I have done with some success is to swirl the bottle to
> stir up what has deposited on the neck (doesn't always do it) and then
> let the bottles continue to condition. This stirred up material seems to
> always settle and doesn't end up in my glass.
Could it also be related to the strain of yeast used?
Two recent batches I've made with Wyeast #1028 (London Ale) have had a barely
visible layer of scum floating in the bottles, accompanied by a fine ring in
the neck. As you say, agitiating the bottles seems to cause most of this
material to settle. Neither batch shows any other signs of infection (they
smell and taste OK).
Other than the time I brewed with baker's chocolate (and I'm pretty sure I
understand what happened with *that* batch), these two are the only batches
where I've noticed bottle rings. They also happen to be the only batches I've
used #1028 on.
- -- Mike Uchima
- -- uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov
------------------------------
From: Cory Wright <cwright@midcom.anza.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:21:31 -0500
Subject: DME (was: Freezing yeast again)
Braam Greyling wrote:
>Also: what the heck is DME.
Dry malt extract.
Cheers,
Cory
cwright@midcom.anza.com
R&D engineer/ Website administrator
Midcom, Inc.
------------------------------
From: Renato Bugge <renato.bugge@fysel.unit.no>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:27:08 +0200
Subject: Guiness III
Hi world! And to you Tom!
Well, in the past years I have made a batch now and then to have some
refreshments in the fridge. It was in Oslo, but then I had to move further
north to Trondheim in March - a job (of course, what did you think it was).
Finally I have gotten myself an apartment with a cool cellar and everything, so
now I'm back in the business: Brewing here I comes!
The first batch is a stout, called Guiness III (it's the third Guiness you
see).
I simply took about 5kg (10 lb) of Pale Malt (Crushed), 0.5kg of Black Malt
(partially crushed) and 0.5kg Flaked barley and mixed with 66C heated water.
Then I threw in a handful of Chocolate (uncrushed) just to see what happened.
Nothing happened (of course!) - it was black enough. After 1 1/4 hour of
mashing, I turned the oven up and took out most of the grains when the
temp.was around 85-90 C. 60grams (2 ounces) of flaked Fuggles hops were
dumped into the
pot as the Worth started boiling. After 30min. I poured the whole thing into
my old grain sack as to filter out the stuff. The dark liquid went through
and into the fermenter - sparged the grains with some more boiling water,
and voila! I had 28l of 1.050 worth! It was then left to cool over the night,
and in the morning, the yeast starter went in. And yes, I almost forgot, I
also used 25ml of hop extract to adjust the bitterness. So, in the evening
it was fermenting wildly, at around 20C. Yesterday the activity had dropped, so
I fastly measured FG to be around 1.020. A little high, but ok for a dark
full-bodied stout. I tasted it - it was very good - malty taste, plenty of hop
aroma with a dry finish of bitterness, just perfect actually. After 3 days
of fermenting and no aging!! I wonder how it will be in a week; heavenly,
no less I think!
So this is just a tale of when everything went ok. As is usually does.
Don't worry - take a homebrew!
(more to follow after the stout-aging and the moving-inn-party)
Renato Bugge
------------------------------
From: egross@emory.edu
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:49:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: reverse sexism
Well, if Randy in Modesto prefers some vacuous female eyecandy pouring
his beer at festivals ( over someone who has a clue ), then I'd like to
request a way buff bimboy to
pour mine as a replacement for the usual bloated-gut-carrying functional
alcoholic know-it-all beer geek.
By the way, I thought you frat boy types knew that you can drink any
server pretty, that's why it's called "beer goggles". lee
------------------------------
From: "Alexander S. MacGillivray RN" <asm19@mail.alliance.net>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:48:44 -0400
Subject: Hop vines
I've been growing some hops all summer long, and they all look real nice. My
question is, do I need to cut them
down to the root for the winter months or can I let them go like a grape vine?
Alex
------------------------------
From: "Brescia, Robert J" <rjb28365@us0n05.glaxo.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:59:46 -0400
Subject: Breweries in NC
Bill,
I live in the Raleigh area and unfortunately there are not a lot of
choices in this area...There is a place called Greenshields in
downtown Raleigh that claims to be a brewpub, but their beer isn't all
that good and it all tastes the same. They are supposed to be a
English style brewery, but having just come back from a week in
London, they are no English brewery!!! There is little pub/restaurant
in Cary called The Fox and Hound that has good food and quite a
selection of beers if you want to try that out.....
I would highly recommend checking out the Carolina Brewery in Chapel
Hill, about 25 minutes from Raleigh. It is located on Franklin Street
about 1/2 mile from the "downtown" area near UNC. There is also a new
brewpub in the center of town on Franklin St. as well, but I have not
been nor do I know anyone who has.
In Winston-Salem I am not too sure about....I know in Greensboro,
about 30 minutes away, there is a place called The Spring Garden
Brewery/Grill, try their Red Oak, which has some really good beer and
there are a few microbreweries around that make some really good beer
as well that can be found in local restaurants......
Hope that helps...
- --Bob
rjb28365@us0n05.glaxo.com
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Bob Brescia
GlaxoWellcome
Desktop Development
Phone: (919) 483-3385 Fax: (919) 483-7617
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:14:14 -0400
Subject: I Wish Irish Moss Worked
All this talk about Irish Moss being useless at wort pH has me checking my
dipstick for low brain fluid.
All I know is that in seven all-grain batches, I've FTIM (forgotten the Irish
Moss) twice and not FTIM five times. Two of seven batches failed to clear
beyond "hazy" prior to packaging, while five were crystal-clear within hours
of going into the primary (I use a glass carboy so I can see what's goin'
on). Can you guess in which two of the seven I FTIM?
I switched from flakes to powdered IM some time ago, and have seen a
significant difference in effect. Not so much in clearing effect (the flakes
seemed to work OK), but in the appearance of the wort during the lag phase.
Some hours after the wort is in the carboy, soft cotton-candy-lookin' clouds
of fluffy material form, leaving great-looking see-through wort behind. Once
fermentation starts in earnest, this all gets churned up, but settles out
again after the yeast have excused themselves from the table.
Another thing that's happenned twice now (including my present batch of Brown
Bus Beer) is that this material forms, among other places, in a
two-inch-thick layer on top of the wort. Over several hours it "sinks"
slowly, but hangs up about six inches below the surface. What bothers me is
that I see active fermentation *above* this "plug", while below, nothing.
Sure, I suppose sooner or later the yeast will make its way through the haze
but I'm concerned that other bugs might take advantage of the uncompetitive
situation to homestead in the lower 48 (ounces).
When I pitch the yeast, the wort is still fairly homogenous in turbidity;
however I don't stir it in but rather just dump it. (I don't pitch while
transferring from the boiler since in the summer I have difficulty getting
the wort much below 85F, even with a prechiller. I guess an ice-water
recirculator should be next on the gadget list). Seems the yeast slurry is
not mixing well, and is perhaps even "floating" so that it gets caught
between this plug and the surface (kinda hard to believe). I end up having
to sanitize the racking cane and gently stirring to break up the plug to
allow the fermenting wort to combine with the rest down under.
Anybody experience any of these things? Is the apparent 100% correlation
between clarity and IM all in my head? Is the formation of cotton candy not
so much an electrostatic effect as perhaps a simple mechanical effect due to
the massive surface area of the powder vs flakes? Should I stir my yeast
starter into the wort rather than just dumping it (apparently so)? Is the IM
simply clearing out stuff that shouldn't be in there in the first place (am I
mis-brewing)?
Is my brain ruined?
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:31:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HBD Archives
I would encourage everyone, particularly those new to the HBD, to take
advantage of the HBD archives. They are an incredible wealth of immediate
information and a resource that should be exploited. I believe that there
are searchable HBD archive web sites, though someone else will have to
post the URL. I have all of the HBDs since 1988 and I can attest to their
value. Lots of topics have been discussed in 8 years. Lots of topic have
been repeatably discussed in 8 years. For example, there is a great series
of water recipe articles posted by A. J. deLange, though if you don't like
to measure and calculate you may have some trouble with any water recipe --
not to mention with brewing itself.
There is a lot there, and a complete list of subject lines can be very
informative. I will work on extracting all the subject lines and referencing
the HBD number. When this is available I will see if I can get it
uploaded to the HBD archive site.
Good brewing to all --
Domenick Venezia
Computer Resources
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia@zgi.com
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:06:30 -0700
Subject: RE: Partial decoction
Randy asks about doing a partial mash. He wonders if he can boil the
entire mash after the saccharafication rest, lauter, and boil...
You shouldn't do this. Part of the reason to decoct is to release
more starch from the grain that wasn't gelatinized at conversion
temperature. If you lauter after boiling the grain, you will be
sending unconverted starch into your kettle, a bad thing. An iodine
test at the end of the decoction boil will illustrate this quite
nicely. In fact, an iodine test will show the presence of starch even
before the mash gets to boiling!
I would encourage you to try an all grain batch. Heck, if you're
going through the bother of partial mashes, and are considering
decoctions as an option in your life, you may as well do a full mash!
It won't take much longer than a partial mash, you will have total
control over the product, you can start to do some really wacky and
complex mash schedules, and the beer will be great!
Have Fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: "ESCHOVIL.US.ORACLE.COM" <ESCHOVIL@us.oracle.com>
Date: 23 Aug 96 09:38:09 -0700
Subject: Must See Brewpubs in SF
Help! I need to know which Brewpubs are a must in SF. I am making a quick
trip over the weekend. Who has the best stouts?
Thanks,
Eric Schoville
eschovil@us.oracle.com
------------------------------
From: John Gibbons <gibbonjj@ttown.apci.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:43:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Cinnamon Spiced Ale
In HBD#2153, Chis DiIorio was asking about a cinnamon spiced
beer. Several years ago, I made "Roastarama Deadline Delight" as
listed in Papazian's "Joy of Homebrewing." This is a dark extract
ale that uses 20 ounces of Celestial Seasonings' Roastaroma Mocha
Spiced Tea. This is an herbal tea that contains roasted barley,
chicory root, cinnamon, star anise and many other herbs/spices.
The final product needs longer aging in the bottle before drinking.
I remember opening it up after 4 weeks and being very dissappointed.
So, I waited several more weeks and tasted it again -- very pleasing
taste, brown head, not too powerful but very complex with all of the
various spices. This past winter, I wanted to make this beer again,
but I could not find "Roastarama...". I used a different tea called
Harvest Spiced Tea; the firat ingredient is cinnamon. I used the same
Papazian recipe with the switch in tea flavors. Again, with a little
longer aging, I was really happy with this beer. The cinnamon flavor
and spicy aroma (the tea is steeped for several minutes at the end of
the boil) are at the right proportions.
Cheers,
John Gibbons
------------------------------
From: shawn@aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:33:49 -0600
Subject: Re: HBD Archives
> There is a lot there, and a complete list of subject lines can be
> very informative. I will work on extracting all the subject lines
> and referencing the HBD number. When this is available I will see if
> I can get it uploaded to the HBD archive site.
That makes a lot of sense. I have collected a list of the subject
lines of the homebrew-digest archives available from
homebrew-digest-request@aob.org (Jan 1, 1996 through now). They are in
the file "contents", so sending mail to homebrew-digest-request@aob.org
and saying:
contents
end
will retrieve the list. I will try to keep this file up-to-date.
- - shawn
Digest Janitor
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:09:54 -0400
Subject: Re: BreWater program
A reply to a question about MAC users concerning BreWater...
Vincent:
<< I read your post on HBD. Is
ftp://users.aol.com/kennyeddy/water/brewater.zip for the Mac or PC? If for
PC, would you know of a Mac equivalent or other programs? Minneapolis city
water is my main obstacle.... >>
A MAC?? Bummer, dude.
The program is for PC's I'm afraid. However, I have a suggestion for the
Windows-impaired. If you're any good with a spreadsheet, you can set one up
to do the calculations.
Download:
ftp://users.aol.com/kennyeddy/water/wchemprm.txt (I think that's the right
filename!)
This document contains a lot of info about water treatment (it's the basis
for the HELP file in BreWater), and there's a table of the ppm contribution
of each salt (per 1gram per gallon). Your spreadsheet would consist of three
sections. The first would be eight cells of "fixed" data, one for the ppms
of each ion (Ca, SO4, etc). The next section would "variable" data for for
each of the six salt additions (grams per gallon of gypsum, epsom salt, etc).
Finally, the third section would be eight cells of "results" ppm data for
the treated water, which is the sum of the ions in "your" starting water PLUS
the contributions of the ions form each salt. Now it's a matter of "playing"
with the salt quantities to get the "result" where you want it.
For example, if "your" water's magnesium ppm is entered in cell A3 and epsom
salt is entered in cell C1, the formula for the resulting magnesium
concentration in cell E3 would be E3 = A3 + 26.1*C1 . For other ions
(calcium and carbonate, for example), it's possible that two or more salts
can contribute, so modify the formulae accordingly. You might also want to
factor in the number of gallons; now E1 = A3 + 26.1*C1/B1 (B1 contains
gallons, let's say).
The target profiles in the BreWater ZIP file are simple text files. The
information in each *.prf file is as follows: profile "name", followed by
the ppm's of calcium, sulfate, magnesium, sodium. chloride, carbonate,
hardness, and alkalinity. The remaining data in the file are not important
for this purpose. You can then use these numbers as a "target" if you're
trying to emulate a certain water. Additionally, there are many references
to "Classic Waters" on the 'net (The Brewery is a great place to start). You
can create a fourth section on the spreadsheet for this "fixed" data.
Of course, the calculations can also be done by hand, but that limits the
practicality of "playing" with the numbers to acheive your target.
Hope this helps.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
From: Stephen_Buonocore@usccmail.lehman.com (Stephen Buonocore)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:24:51 -0400
Subject: Anyone in NJ Area Interested in Teaching a Beer Class?
If there is anyone interested in teaching a basic beer class for the
Continuing Education Department of a major central New Jersey
University, please contact me PRIVATELY and IMMEDIATELY!
The class should entail a bit of brewing, judging, styles, history...
almost anything *you* would want to do with a novice beer audience.
The class will meet once a week in the evening, for 6 weeks (though
this could change if necessary). The university pays *very* well...
During the day, I can be reached by phone at (201)524-5586 or at this
email address. On weekends, please call me at home at (908)846-1069.
Immediate reply required!
Best,
Stephen
------------------------------
From: RUCKARJ@towers.com
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:49:36 -0400
Subject: [none]
I am interested in reading about different techniques people have used
to filter beer after fermentation. What works best? What doesn't work
at all?
------------------------------
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac)
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:39 -0600
Subject: mash temps/dextrins
collective homebrew conscience:
here's a statement i need some clarification on:
rick lambert wrote:
>IMHO lactose (unless used very sparingly) could give a cloying character to
the
>sweetness of a fruit beer. Instead, I have dropped the mash temp to up the
>dextrins,<snip>
my understanding until i read this was that high mash temps (158F) favored
alpha amylase and eliminated beta amylase more quickly, resulting in less
complete breakdown of starch, and comparatively more dextrins in the wort
as opposed to lower mash temps (150F) which let the beta work longer and
result in a more complete breakdown and thus less dextrins.
what am i missing here? how does dropping the mash temperature increase the
amount of dextrins in the wort?
any ideas on the dark mash/pH strip discoloration problem i mentioned a
while back? do i have to get a meter?
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
From: "Ray Robert" <Ray_Robert@bah.com>
Date: 23 Aug 1996 17:47:54 U
Subject: bleach heresy?
A question for the collective:
Does bleach promote growth of bacteria in beer?
This may sound like a stupid question but let me tell you why I ask. After
having infections in my last two batches and trying to trace down my problem,
I asked for assistance from a local hb store. The proprietor stated that a
problem may be that I sanitize with bleach. He said that bleach may be too
effective in killing bacteria and that it would continue killing my yeast even
while my beer is in the fermenter (after I had rinsed) He stated that you
cannot rinse bleach off and that a residue remains long after which can
promote off flavors and kill yeast. (I found it interesting that I have
always sanitized with bleach but only recently had infections, but he seemed
nonplussed.) His recommendation was to stay away from bleach altogether and
use an iodine based cleaner. (makes sense)
Regards
Robert Ray
ray_robert@bah.com
"Looks like the gene pool is in need of a little chlorine"
------------------------------
From: tamu2000 <duff@tam2000.tamu.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 96 16:50:02 -0500
Subject: Heated Wyeast storage.
- -- [ From: tamu2000 * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
Earlier this week I mail-ordered some Wyeast packets for brewing this
weekend. Because of a terrible misunderstanding between me and the supplier
, they sent them by ground transit (UPS). This means that the yeast will be
spending the weekend in some (non-airconditioned) UPS transit holding
warehouse in northern Texas. I know what the temp range for fermenting ale
yeasts are, and that you SHOULD keep them refrigerated during storage, but
what happens if you don't? Do they go dormant (good thing) or do they
mutate and or die (bad thing)? Are they at all salvageable? Is it one of
those "learning experiences" your mother always told you of? Should I use
open fermenters and windows and hope for a Lambic reaction? I insulted my
own intelligence with this blunder and I need a way out.
- -Duff
------------------------------
From: Eric White <white@anchorage.anadrill.slb.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 14:09:15 -0800
Subject: My first lager
I would like to tap the extensive knowledge of the HBD for some advice on
brewing my first lager. I'm an extract + specialty grains brewer with around
10 batches (all ales) under my belt.
I re-read TCJOHB last nite and all it says about lagering is that "it is
aging" the beer. Nothing refering to temps or vessels. I read an article in
BYO magazine about lagers and all references are to months of aging in a
corny keg in a fridge or freezer (with temp control). I haven't the fridge
or kegs and probably won't in the next couple of years.
I ferment in my basement which depending on location, I can achieve temps
between 58 and 80 F. I figure this range can get me going, but how much
lower do I need to go to get a decent product? I have heard of some "tricks"
like a pan of water with a towel for evaporation. Are there others?
Can I use a carboy for the lagering? How about the 5L mini-kegs which I just
started using? How long should I plan on lagering for?
Any suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated. TIA.
Eric
Eric & Vernae White
Qesqa and Susitna (the Malamutes)
Anchorage, Alaska
white@anchorage.anadrill.slb.com
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From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 23 Aug 96 18:30:35 EDT
Subject: O/N mashes,dial thermometer
Brewsters:
Again, I'm still behind in my HBD reading and hope there is not excessive
reudndancy in my replies.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Kevin Kane asks about using an overnight mash and its effect on flavors of the
more delicate beers. I believe the older ( not the oldest) British homebrewers
started this with Bruheat boilers ( maybe Line?) At the low T end of the
saccharification it is possible you will get a thinner beer than if you used a
saccharification time of an hour or so and normally don't have a good
efficiency
of conversion. Although the fermentability ratio is normally strongly
temperature dependent, the enzymes are longer lived at lower T's and O/N the
beta Amylase will have the maximum chance to convert the various lwm starch
polymers to fermentable sugars. Thus you might find a difference between the
"normal" saccharification and the O/N saccharification because the O/N would
more efficiently convert the starch and dextrins. At the lower T's you stand a
chance of contamination and a more acidic wort. It is a way to break up your
brewing session, but you're not really saving much time that I can see. Why not
prepare your malt and grist and water ,if needed, the night before and brew and
boil the next day?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Guy Gregory asks about dial type thermometers and mashing. Personally, I like
mine, it is a Taylor thermometer I purchased at a food equipment store-about
$15. Its dial is about 1" in diameter. I calibrated it at 32F and 212F and
blends in between. It was amazingly linear and acurate. I like it because it
can be adjusted. I check it whenever I feel like it versus ice water and a
health( non-anal) thermometer. very steady. It is not a good plan to drop any
mechanical thermometer in a mash or wort. I have sealed them up with silicone
adhesive in the past.
- --------------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
From: "CHUCK HUDSON, ER LAB 3-2865" <CHUDSON@mozart.unm.edu>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:03:16 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [none]
I have had the same problems with a different yeast brand Yeast labs American
Ale. I turned the bottle up side down and set it back to condition and a small
thin ring was present at drinking time but it was a great APA.
I to thought it was an infection but the taste of the beer and a beer judge
proved me wrong. ( I hate it when that happens!!:-) )
Keep them airlocks bubbling
Chuck Hudson
Give a man a beer and he wastes an hour
Teach a man to brew and he wastes a lifetime
My wife circa 1990something
chudson@mozart.unm.edu
------------------------------
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:03:05 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Wild yeast infection/phenolic/medicinal taste
I requested info on the phenolic/medicinal taste in my beer. My thanks to Ken
Schwartz, Al Korzonas, Kevin and others for responding. The concensus seems
to be that either the fermentation temp exceeded 75 F (I think it may have)
or that I got a wild yeast infection (WYI). How can I prevent getting a WYI
in future when culturing yeast - does anyone know how to avoid this ? Also
how can I confirm whether it is a WYI or just too high a fermentation temp ?
Cheers
Ian Smith
isrs@rela.uucp.netcom.com
------------------------------
From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461@ecy.wa.gov>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 96 16:34:00 PDT
Subject: False bottoms/tubes
XKCHRISTIAN@ccvax.fullerton.edu says:
>Currently, I am using 3 converted 15 gallon kegs in my brewery. Each keg
has an Easy Masher type spigot installed on them and I am wanting to hook
up a pump to help keep stable temps in the mash. I would appreciate some
advice on false bottom design.
1. In using a recirculating type system (RIMS), is an Easy Masher setup able
to produce good results? Is a copper tube around the bottom (with hack
saw slits) better? Or is a false bottom the only real choice?
I really like my setup but I scorch the bottom when going from a protein
rest to sac rest, to mash out. I also scorch the bottom in my boiler--it is
a
problem. <
Hydraulically, you've got a choice. The Easymasher (TM) basically is a
rolled up false bottom, which has the hydraulic benefit of the drain itself
being in intimate contact with the grain, thus requiring no "foundation
water" or "pre-saturation". It draws from a point source at the place the
tube is attached to the screen, so it is essentially a point source drain.
The false bottom is probably hydraulically the least efficient, as it
doesn't take advantage of pressure relationships in overlying and
surrounding saturated grain to move wort, but rather is another point source
sink, which may draw preferentially from the grain-vessel boundary.
A manifold tube stuck into the middle as a drain is probably hydraulically
most efficient, because it draws from each slot, rather than just the point
of attachment. A circular manifold is much worse, because it induces flow
along the grain-vessel boundary, and not through the middle of the grain.
Of course, false bottoms are easier to stir over than manifolds. By far.
All the above value judgements regarding "best" and "least" efficient are
personal value judgements, and the actual efficiency difference between them
is small.
>2. I am thinking that a false bottom is goint to be the best route to go.
What is the optimal size of the false bottom (9, 10, 12 inch). the false
bottom will be made of SS.<
Optimal diameter is a matter of opinion. I personally would minimize
foundation water and maximize flow through grain (rather than flow along
grain vessel boundary) by minimizing the area of the false bottom. To see
what the difference is, try a sensitivity analysis using the equation Q=KIA
where Q is the discharge you will get, K=Hydraulic conductivity of grain
(assuming barley, try 3 x 10E-2 cm/sec), I=Height of water column above
false bottom, and A=Area of false bottom. I haven't done it, but I think
that can help you choose what diameter makes a difference.
Optimal spacing of the holes is about 50% mean grain diameter, which is
about 3/32 I think. Someone else I believe knows better what grain size
curves are like for optimally crushed barley.
>3. If I choose to go with a false bottom for both the boiler and the mash
tun, is scorching a problem when doughing in and boiling? <
My experience is that scorching is an issue of over application of heat and
not stirring enough. Stir more. Turn down your burner a bit, and I think
the problem will go away.
Good luck
GuyG4@aol.com
Lighning Creek Homebrewery
Hydraulically efficient, but we can't wash dishes very well.
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End of Homebrew Digest #2158
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