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HOMEBREW Digest #2173
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/09/04 PDT
Homebrew Digest Wednesday, 4 September 1996 Number 2173
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Octoberfest Extract Recipie ("Michael J. LeLaurin, CS/BRC, 245-7880")
Polyclar? (Keith Busby)
"Safe" Silicone for Frane's Friend / Lil' Bottles (KennyEddy@aol.com)
Cures for infection, anyone! ((Greg Douhan))
Late harvest hops (emccormi)
Mash-in Techniques /Cookers /GABF bites! ((John (The Coyote) Wyllie))
HG dry hopping ((John (The Coyote) Wyllie))
PU Yeast ((A. J. deLange))
RE: Sheepish grin (AJN)
Hop bag o' marbles ("Pat Babcock")
s/s brew pots ((Ken ))
RE: Poor extraction/ Forced Sparging/ Hot Side Aeration ((George De Piro))
Bottles and Malt (John Penn)
duffy's extraction problem (M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac))
HSA/Pump (krkoupa@ccmail2.PacBell.COM)
Re: Bottles and Malt (RUSt1d?)
Blowoff Tubes and Cleaning Them (Michael Caprara)
Beta amylase and fermentability -- so far (korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com)
Duffy's inefficiency ("David R. Burley")
Stainless Soldering (Scott Abene)
Extraction Problems (korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Michael J. LeLaurin, CS/BRC, 245-7880" <lelaurin@shellus.com>
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 17:16:04 -0500
Subject: Octoberfest Extract Recipie
HBD,
I would like to brew (running out of time...!) an Octoberfest
from extract/specialty grains. I need a recipie. Private email fine.
Thanx................
d:-)
*******************************
* Michael J. LeLaurin *
* Computing Services *
* Shell EP Technology Co. *
* Phone (713)245-7880 *
* FAX (713)245-7581 *
* e-mail:lelaurin *
* internet:lelaurin@shell.com *
*******************************
------------------------------
From: Keith Busby <kbusby@uoknor.edu>
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 1996 19:44:14 -0500
Subject: Polyclar?
Does anyone have experience with Polyclar? I just made an all-grain Belgian
Trippel, which tastes just fine, but has serious chill haze problems. I know
this is just an aesthetic issue, but on balance I'd probbaly rather have my
beer clear than cloudy (yes, I know, don't chill it then). Does Polyclar
actually work? I gather it is added to the secondary a day or so before
bottling. Since it is insoluble, is it simply added as is? Should it be
stirred? Won't this stir up the sedimented yeast again?
Thanks for any responses.
Keith Busby
Keith Busby
George Lynn Cross Research Professor
Center for Medieval and Renaissance Studies
University of Oklahoma
780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 202
Norman, OK 73019
Tel.: (405) 325-5088
Fax: (405) 325-0103
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 22:10:44 -0400
Subject: "Safe" Silicone for Frane's Friend / Lil' Bottles
Jeff Frane asks about epoxies for healing an old friend's war wounds. I've
used a silicone adhesive I found at Builders Square a while back, on the
Electric Brewery and on thermometer probes. I've even used it as Jeff needs
to, to plug a hole I didn't really mean to drill (no, really) in my mash tun
about 10 batches ago. I posted the following in HBD1963:
<<
Thanks to Bruce Taber for his food-grade silicone posting. I found another
which might be a bit more widely available. It's made by Dow-Corning and is
sold as "DAP 100% Silicone Sealant" in the caulk-gun tube (about $4). You
might also find it in a smaller squeeze tube too. It doesn't have any more
identification that that, other than a note on the UPC symbol that says
"Reorder Cat No 8641. It claims 25% joint mobility and -40F to +400F
operation.
There is a note on the tube which reads:
"Safe for food contact: When cured and washed,
ingredients which remain or which could migrate to
food are listed in FDA Regulation No. 21CFR177 2600"
I'd suggest you contact Dow Corning (ask for an MSDS for this product) and/or
the FDA (ask for info on the above regulation) concerning this before you
just plug away with it, but it appears from this note that you should be OK
especially using it in small amounts.
>>
*****
Charles Epp asks about little bottles:
> Anybody know of a source (preferably inexpensive)for small, cappable
> bottles in the 7-8 oz. size?
I've used Perrier bottles successfully. They're 6 ounces, I believe.
*****
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
From: gdouhan@mail.wsu.edu (Greg Douhan)
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 21:20:05 -0700
Subject: Cures for infection, anyone!
I recently brewed an German styled wheat(11.5 gallons). One of my
two fermentors became infected, most likely from the air lock blowing off
one of them. Anyways, the beer is infected and has a very pronounced
band-aidy typical phenolic character. I refuse to toss out any brew if it
is at all possible. Does anybody know a way to mask this flavor, deactivate
the chemical by some safe means, anything? I am willing to be creative and
am wondering what the collective could come up with. Private e-mail would
be great and I will post a result if all goes well
Greg Douhan
------------------------------
From: emccormi <emccormi@knox.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 01:02:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Late harvest hops
Miguel,
I would expect snipping the flowers before they develop would
encourage the hops to grow a stronger rootstock. Works that way for mums
and many other perrenials. In Holland, the tulip flowers are mowed off to
encourage them to produce top size bulbs.
Most plants don't respond well to being decapitated before they
die off naturally for the year. A possible exception might be members of
the mint family currently attempting to overrun our yard.
I know the hop (vines?) grow quite long, but I would say it would
be better to train them to a fence or a rope at a level where you could
harvest the hops without lopping the entire plant down. Let the vines
themselves die off on their own, then remove them. Leaving dead
vegetation around live plants just encourages disease and insect
problems.
------------------------------
From: ccoyote@sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 02:54:17 -0600
Subject: Mash-in Techniques /Cookers /GABF bites!
Ok, Ok, some I'm way behind. Far too much to keep up with these daze!
Just put up tomatoes, and am ready to turn back to hop picking. My cascade
is calling me! (afraid they are suffering a bit of spider mite damage,
but too late in the game for spraying. Mighty Spider Stout anyone?)
RE: The running debate: Which came first the water or the grain....aka
mash-in techniques. Here's my 2c worth of experiences.
I have a stone-wheel electric grinder. I grind directly into my 15 gal pot
(w/ an easymasher installed). I once tried adding water into the pot first
(hott tap water) with the idea that the grain would fall onto the water and
mix well, w/o clumping. Would have worked ok, except for the fact that
the hot water created steam (depleted of 02 of course, right Al?) which
caused clumping of the grain IN the grinder. Basically I could tell by the
humm of my motor that this was not a happy grinder! (yeah I know, if I got
a Maltmill all my worries would be solved, problem is my bank account would
be emptied too! Xmas? hint hint? -wonder if the Mrs is listening....)
SO- I went back to my former, and current routine. Grind my grain into my
pot. Then with my PurpleHeart (wood) paddle in hand, and sink hose held
also, mix grain as water pours fairly slowly into the mash. I run the
water almost down the paddle as I cut into the mash. Yeah, there may be
some clumping, there may be some starch balls, but hey...whats a couple
points! Plus by the time I get to full mash volume (step infusions
generally) I figure most if not all clumps have been renedered "fluidous".
Anyone have a homemade version of those brewpub gizmos (I'm sure there is a
technical term) where they grind the grain upstairs and drop it through a
shoot where a ring of jets blasts water into the falling grain, so it is
thoroughly mixed by the time it lands in the mash tun?
>Paul sed:
>I usually add flour to liquid in my
>Kitchenaid mixer w/o a balling problem. If mixing by hand (when making
>biscuits or something) I do it the other way 'round. In a mechanized
>mixer like the Kitchenaid, if you put the flour in first, then add
>liquid & turn on mixer (even on slowest setting), it'll toss flour _all_
>over the place.
>
>So the answers is: It depends... *Now if you need depends, there is a
>real
> liquid problem here!
*** Funny thing here: I guess with a Kitchen aid perhaps you suffer a
flour shower (do you have one of those ring things, clear plastic spray
catcher...) and need to add solid to liquid, but with my Cuisinart food
processor, I add solids first, flour, salt and mix, then slowly pour in
liquids, eggs, oil, water, and there we have it Pasta, or bread dough, or
pastry, or whatever is the end product of desire. Though I agree with ya
on doing it with your hands, I like to start with flour, and mix a puddle
of liquids in the middle, gradually stirring in more flour to ....duogh!
What does this have to do with brewing! Nothing! Should I head for
rec.crafts.cooking now? But who's to say Barley makes lousy bread! Spent
grain bread recipes abound! Check em out! How about using your yeast
dregs from a fruit beer, or mead, to start a bread culture! Works great!
Anyone ever try grinding spend dried grains to a powder, then using for bread?
***
RE: the thread on Gas Burners and stability:
This is one of the major issues that led me to choose the Camp Chef
Cache Cooker (just a damned happy customer!) over one of them thar fish
fryers. Those legs just look too darned twiggy to handle the kind of abuse
I dish out! What with 20+ gallons of boiling liquid, and vigourous
stirring, I wouldnt wanna trust spindly legs! My double burner holds the
pots well (10, and 15 gal) and is sturdy enough for rough handling my mash,
or whirlpooling my wort.
If you choose to use a tire iron as suggested I'd lend a note of
caustion RE: gas fumes from any paint which might burn off of the iron.
THe cook stoves are supposed to be exposed to lots of heat and flame. A
tire iron is not. Even so, my cook stove emmitted some pretty noxious
fumes for the first couple runs until it had burned off some of the
paint/powder coat. No problems now, just the occasional caramel aroma as
that splilled wort candy-izes come the next brew session!
If you get Williams catalog, they have a nice picture of a single burner.
I believe these have shorter legs than my model. Funny thing is, I spent
less than the $89 they quote for their single burner, for my double burner!
THey are made locally here (hence the name- Cache cooker, Cache
county...yeah there's a coincidence) so I s'pose shipping costs are saved!
I got my two burner for $67 at a crazy daze sale in town. They generally
have the single burners for around $50 not on sale. Go figure!
***
A few of the members, and non-members of our brewclub N.U!M.B are planning
to attend the GABF fest. Funny thing we noticed- the brochure claims that
they have "special" rates with several hotels in the area. The odd thing
is- if you call and request room prices out of the blue- you get one quote,
call back and tell them you are with the GABF and get another quote.
Here's where the "special" part comes in....the GABF rates are about $5-$10
HIGHER than the 'out of the blue' rates. Hmmmmmm. Smells a little fishy
to me! One reservation lady during the same call after quoting a price,
then being told we were with GABF said- "oh, I wish you hadn't told me
that, not here is your price", a whopping $5 higher! Right to our "face"
(over the phone). Anyone else run into this phenomenon? This reeks if
you ask me!
Dammit- I'm bringing a backpack whether they f$*&ing like it or not!
Does anyone wanna try to meet up at the members only tasting? Ya know- we
could get together "face to face" and....have a beer or something!
(hahaha)
3pm at the "store" might be a place/time to try. Any takers?
PS: On the brewing scene: Just tapped a Burnt Porter- made with
home-smoked apple-wood/mesquite grain. Also am making a Cask ale- IPA.
Loads of HOPS!
Gotta make room in the freezers for THIS years hops! Anyone want some of
last years? Still mighty nummy! Lots of cascade/williamette. Also
started up a sweet RoseHip Mead. Can't wait! (but I'll have to...)
- ------------------------------------------------------------
///John- The Cosmic Coyote -Wyllie\\\ ccoyote@sunrem.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: ccoyote@sunrem.com (John (The Coyote) Wyllie)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 04:12:42 -0600
Subject: HG dry hopping
>
>From: WattsBrew@aol.com
>Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 19:34:08 -0400
>Subject: Dry hopping
>
>Good day brewers,
> I am about to try dry hopping for the first time. I am using homegrown
>hops. The hops have already been dried and are packaged in the freezer. The
>question I have is "do the hops need any special attention or should I just
>chuck them in the secondary?, also is there any risk of contamination from
>homegrown hops?."
>Your collective wisdom is greatly appreciated.
>
>Brewing in Lancaster, NY - Bill Watt
* One thing i have done for my own peace of mind, and to avoid hop bits in
my finished brew- is to make a hop tea, or infusion. Just bring some water
to a boil, turn off the flame and add the hops. Let is sit for a couple of
minutes, then strain the liquid into your finished beer (or secondar-ying).
You get a nice fresh face-ful of hop aroma without /worry/.
Homegrown hops properly dried and stored should not pose any greater threat
to your brew than commercial hops. I would think there is some benefit
from having frozen the hops first rather than using freshly dried HG hops.
Granted freezing won't sterilize, OR sanitize, but it might in some way
reduce the numbers of microbes, at least MACRO-bugs will be terminated!
(mites? aphids?).
You have a couple things working for you RE: contaminants in a secondary:
1) alcohol content has increased in the brew, inhibiting contaminating microbes
2) pH has decreased, an acidic environ is not very hospitable to foreigners
3) O2 has been depleted. Less contaminants are able to tolerate anaerobic
conditions.
A couple things I have experienced w/ dry hopping a secondary.
a. Fermentation will seem to "re-acticate". This is not due to
fermentables being carried in with the hops. But more likely due to
nucleation sites for dissolved CO2 to become....undissolved.
b. Cloudiness may increase. I've found a bit more haze in dry hopped
beers, so you might consider using fining agents after the hops have
floated around a while. You could go to a tertiary for a couple days
before bottling/kegging.
I have dry hopped in kegs fairly often. It works great! The wide mouth of
the keg is much more conducive to stuffing a sack of hop in than the narrow
neck of a carboy. Just a couple marble in a cheese cloth "sack" of hops
tied to the down tube (liquid) in the carboy, and off I go. Truly
delightful!
Thing is I've found a quick infusion of hops into priming sugar solution
added to the keg gives almost as much kick, w/o any concern or problem with
the "sack" finding its way to the inlet of the outlet, and causing a
blocklet! Arghhhh!
Just my 2c. You can toss them in the well if you wish!
- ------------------------------------------------------------
///John- The Cosmic Coyote -Wyllie\\\ ccoyote@sunrem.com
- ------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:10:25 -0500
Subject: PU Yeast
Don Trotter asked whether PU yeast has a Bavarian origin. In 1842 a
Bavarian monk smuggled lager yeast Bohemia and late in that same year the
Burgerliches Brauhaus (funding for which had been granted based on the
claim that Bohemian brewing was being throttled by competition from
Bavarian lagers) produced its first beer. Draw your own conclusion.
Rumor currently has it that PU is brewed using 5 strains of yeast (and
Michael Jackson mentions this). I don't know the exact process but have
seen posted at least once that five separate worts are pitched and blended
after fermentation is complete. If true one of those five is a big diacetyl
producer!
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
From: AJN <neitzkea@frc.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 07:15:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: Sheepish grin
RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE@mid.org> Wrote:
>BTW, did anyone else have to go out and try to find propane at 6:00 a.m.
>on Monday morning (an U.S. holiday)? I must get a gauge for that tank!
>Randy in Modesto (California)
That's a easy one: Tip toe over to your neighbor with a wrench and the
empty tank and switch tanks from his/her BBQ! Then when your neighbor
gets up, stroll over and say "howdy neighbor, how about I fill up your
tank for you, on me!" Fill both tanks, and give them back theirs.
Make sure your good neighbors, so they don't shoot first ask questions
last :)
_________________________________________________________________________
Arnold J. Neitzke Internet Mail: neitzkea@frc.com
Home : Brighton, Mi.
Work : Auburn Hills, Mi.
------------------------------
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock@ford.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:03:19 -0400
Subject: Hop bag o' marbles
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
In HBD , Al K comments on the difficulty of shtuffing the sinkered hop bag in
and out of the neck...
I'm a world class bottle neck stuffer from way back. The key is in how you
load and tie the bag.
First, use the SMALL marbles. Those big ol' aggies won't fit in most bottles.
Optionally, there are these deformed marbles they sell as glass beads for
aquarium decorators. These are about the size of raisins or Junior Mints (tm)
and should fit well. Boil the bag and the marbles for a while in a covered
pot. Put a gentile handfull of marbles in the bag, add your hops (use your
head, though - if you *stuff* the bag, you'll never get it in the neck. Two
bags would be a better option...). Not, the coup de grace: the knot! grab the
bag at opposite points of the opening, and draw them away. Now loop the two
ends to form the first part of a square knot. Snug it just to the point it
closes the opening of the bag. Now, tie the other loop. Grip the bag AND the
knot-ends, and pull the knot as small as possible. If you've overstuffed your
bag, you know have a too-plump sausage looking thing and will have to try
again.
Now, use your hands to "tubularize" the bag as you pass it through the neck
of the bottle. When it's time to remove, I usually just siphon the beer out
to its final resting place, then snag the bag(s) with a coathanger hook. I
pull the bag up and out, or simply tear it open in the fermenter. The hop
leaves will come free and flow out with the rest of the splooge, and the you
can fish the bag out with that coathanger. Pour the splooge into a collander
to avoid the painful loss of your marbles. (It is apparent of late that too
many homebrewers have lost their marbles anyway...)
Hope this helps!
See ya!
Pat Babcock in scenic Canton, MI
pbabcock@oeonline.com
http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
------------------------------
From: kbjohns@escape.com (Ken )
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 09:02:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: s/s brew pots
>K Sprague wrote
>The acutual price for a 40 QT. vollrath s/s stock pot (minus the lid which
is >$20-30) is something like $89.00 net cost (I have a current price list
in my >office). If you allow the dealer 10% on cost (which is a respectable
profit) >plus shipping (which BTW, they usually get shipping for free) it
should cost >you about $100.
Like to be in your business where a dealer/retailer can survive on 10%
profit. Guess they must make it up on volume. Which Vollrath 40 qt are we
talking about. they offer 3 models
Ken
Precision Brewing Systems URL http://www.wp.com/HOSI/pbscat.html
East Coast Brewing supply URL
http://virtumall.com/EastCoastBrewing/ECBMain.html
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:11:08 -0700
Subject: RE: Poor extraction/ Forced Sparging/ Hot Side Aeration
Hi all!
Duffy writes about his poor extraction. 18 pts/lb./gal. is
distressingly low. I used to have similar woes, though not quite as
severe, when using "store crushed" malt. My shop, like Duffy's, has a
nice roller mill, but the gap was always set too course. The day I
bought my own mill and learned to use it was the day that I started
getting 80% extract efficiencies (compared to my previous 70-75%).
There may be some other problems (for example, sparging for 35 min. is
a tad too quick, stretch it to at least 45 min.), but in my experience
poor milling is the major culprit.
---------------------------
A few days back (I was on vacation, just catching up) John asked about
"forced sparging," using pressure to push the liquid through the grain
bed. Guinness utilizes mash filters, which is basically what John
describes. The grain is reduced to flour in a hammer mill and then
lautered by forcing liquid through the floury mash. They can achieve
remarkably high extract efficiencies this way, but the technology is a
bit much for us to duplicate in the kitchen (although somebody
somewhere is probably proving me wrong!).
I don't know how well this would work with "normally crushed" grains
in your typical homebrewery lauter tun, or if you'd even want to try,
because I don't see a readily apparent advantage to it.
See "Stout" by Michael Lewis for more on mash filters at Guinness
breweries.
----------------------------
In issue 2166 bayerospace@mac (sorry, I forgot your name) wrote that
many micros have hot side aeration (HSA) and don't care. Well, I have
seen micros with HSA, but at least one does care!
Deschutes brewery (Bend, OR) has a flaw in their whirlpool tank that
aerates the hot wort a bit (was told this on a tour; Bill (a brewer
there) was my guide). They believe this to be a more serious threat
to the shelf-life of their product than the lack of pasteurization. I
didn't ask why they don't just fix it!
By the way, I didn't detect any oxidation in any of the Deschutes
beers I had (and I did have a few...they're quite good).
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: John Penn <john_penn@jhuapl.edu>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 09:19:24 +0000
Subject: Bottles and Malt
7-8 oz bottles: I bought a six pack of Heineken 7oz bottles,
they are the only ones I've seen that are not twist off 7oz.
It's an expensive way to go but I wanted a few smaller bottles,
mostly for my wife. If anyone knows of a better/cheaper source
please post on the HBD. I also found some 16oz grolsch style
capping bottles--including beer--on sale for 50 cents so I
bought 10.
MaltMeister Question: 1) The local beer store in MD is now
carrying peat smoked malt which I'd like to try in a scottish ale
recipe. They mentioned using it for Rauchbier. Having never
tried peat smoked malt, would this be an acceptable substitute?
What would the taste be like?
2) I want to try Papazian's India Pale Ale which calls for toasting
malt at 350F for 10 minutes. Would it be best to use a British Malt and
which one? Is there an equivalent toasted malt I could buy as a
substitute such as Biscout or Victory? TIA.
John Penn
------------------------------
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac)
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:44 -0600
Subject: duffy's extraction problem
collective homebrew conscience:
duffy toler wrote:
>I used a 122 F protein rest for 30 minutes followed by a 152 F conversion
>rest for 50 minutes. The iodine test showed no starch left. I recirculated
>for 15 minutes and then sparged 5 gallons of 170 F/pH 5.2 water
>through(which took about 35 minutes) and collected about 6.5 gallons of
>sweet liquor. This was boiled down to about 5.25 gallons over 90 minutes.
> I ran it through my counterflow chiller and took a gravity reading. A
>lousy 1.035, or about 18 pts./lbs/gal. The hydrometer has been calibrated.
here are some things you can do to increase your extraction. you may be
doing some of these already:
1) make sure you have a decent crush.
2) check the pH of the mash at mash in; check it again at saccharification.
adjust if necessary.
2b) make sure your pH measuring technique is accurate. some of the pH papers
aren't too accurate.
3) stir the mash a few times during protein rest/saccharification
4) make sure your mash is not too thick. 1 quart water per pound of grist
is about the minimum you should use. use 1.33 or 1.5 quarts per pound of
grist, especially if you're using direct heat to boost from protein rest
to sacch. rest.
5) make sure your thermometer is accurate.
6) extend the sacch. rest to 1.5 or 2 hours, regardless of the iodine test
7) sparging should take a minimum of 1 hour, not including recirculation.
keep the sparge water level above the grain bed at all times during the
sparge.
8) knife the grain bed a couple of times during the sparge to prevent
excessive channelling.
if you implement each one of these you could see a decent gain.
you may have some bad (undermodified) malt, but that's very rare these days.
make sure the pale malt you're using for the base of the recipe is enzymatic,
and not carapils or some other specialty type that has little or no enzymes.
this seems kind of obvious to a lot of us, but i remember trying to mash
crystal malt in my "extract to partial mash" transition period.
hope this helps.
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
From: krkoupa@ccmail2.PacBell.COM
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 96 13:48:10 PST
Subject: HSA/Pump
My inquisitive neighbor's questions are getting tougher and
tougher to answer. I use a Little Giant mag-drive pump to
move the wort between the mash tun and the boil kettle. He
asked me if I had to worry about Hot Side Aeration through
the pump. Duh, I'm stumped. Let's see, air (aeriation)
shouldn't be introduced at the pump, so it's cavitation at
best. Now my question for HBD:
Is Hot Side Cavitation the same problem as Hot Side
Aeration?
Not that I'm going to do anything different, I just want to
know what goes on.
Thanks! Ken Koupal krkoupa@ccmail2.pacbell.com
------------------------------
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@li.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 09:51:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Bottles and Malt
John Penn writes
>2) I want to try Papazian's India Pale Ale which calls for toasting
>malt at 350F for 10 minutes. Would it be best to use a British Malt and
>which one? Is there an equivalent toasted malt I could buy as a
>substitute such as Biscout or Victory? TIA.
You could substitute something for the home toasted malt, but I wouldn't.
I toasted some malt last weekend for a porter and could not get over how
great the stuff smelled while baking. If you substitute you will be
missing out on a treat.
John Varady
Boneyard Brewing Co.
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow"
------------------------------
From: Michael Caprara <mcaprara@awwarf.com>
Date: Wed, 04 Sep 1996 08:35:01 -0600
Subject: Blowoff Tubes and Cleaning Them
Jeff writes: >gunge was deposited on the inside of my plastic tubing.
It's about quarter >inch clear tube. Any ideas how to clean this stuff
out?
AL writes: >Buy yourself some 1 1/4" OD tubing for blowoff and 5/16"
ID FOOD-GRADE tubing for siphoning and don't use one for the other.
The 1.25" tubing will fit right into the neck of a carboy without a stopper.
Here is my $0.02 on blowoff tubes. The 1.25" OD tube is great for
blowoff, but the tube wears out and won't hold a good seal after a few
months of heavy use. Plus the stuff is expensive! Sometimes the
fermentation spooge comes out of the "seal" I mainly use a 5/16" tube
and rubber stopper for blow off. I never get cloggage problems because
I use only leaf hops and the hops and trub are strained through a copper
chore boy in the bottom of the brew kettle.
To clean tubes. For the 1.25" OD tube, first I soak in B Brite, then I have
a piece of nylon cord with an old wash cloth tied to the end. I pull the
cord and cloth through the tube and walla! it is clean. For the 5/16" tube,
I use a piece of cord (this is Army 550 cord for parachutes) with a
bunch of knots tied in it at one end (they are space about 3 or 4 inches
apart). I work the cord through the tube and pull the knots through (I
soak in B Brite first) Wallah!! It is clean.
You won't get the 5/16" tube clean enough to use for siphoning, but it will
work again and again for a blow off. Use your siphon tube for siphoning
only.
Brewfully Deadicated
MC :{P} I mix the blow off spooge with a can of
Bud and serve it to all the klingons I know!
mcaprara@awwarf.com
http:/www.dimensional.com/~godbey/louthan.html
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 96 10:04:06 CDT
Subject: Beta amylase and fermentability -- so far
If you will recall, a number of us had a long and drawn-out disagreement
regarding fermentability, mash temperatures & mash times. We took the
discussion offline (thank goodness) and are still hashing it out. Including
today's discussions, so far we have generated 12776 lines of email -- that's
592837 bytes. To make the problem more manageable, the single large problem
has been cut up into three phase:
1. basic concepts,
2. collecting more experimental data, and
3. enzyme kinetics based upon the experimental data.
Several weeks ago, we started with a bullet list of basic concepts. This
was edited by a number of us till we got to something we could all agree
upon. I am here to present to you the results of phase 1:
We have hashed the issue of fermentability, beta-amylase lifetime and
mash times/temperatures off-line and have resolved our differences. The
problems here were caused partially by misunderstanding each other's posts
and partially by some misinformation in various homebrewing texts. The
points we all agree on are:
* When Dave initially suggested that longer mash times would reduce FG,
it was specifically meant regarding very short mash times (on the order
of 15 minutes in the saccharification range).
* None of us advocate such short mash times. They will indeed lead to
high FG's, poor extraction and inconsistent results. A 1 hour mash is
just about the minimum reasonable time and various other factors such
as poor grind, lower (below 155F or so) saccharification temperature,
very high or low pH and insufficient calcium will require even longer
mashes.
* If a sufficiently long time (assuming proper grind, pH and calcium) is
used for a single-step infusion mash, the fermentability (and therefore
apparent attenuation and FG) is strictly a function of mash temperature
(a low FG will be the result of 2 hours at 150F and a high FG will be
the result of 1.5 hours at 158F).
* If a brewer is mashing strictly at 158F for more than an hour and
experiencing a high FG (where the FG points are more than 40% of the
OG points) and the high FG is not a result of alcohol tolerance, poor
wort aeration or yeast health, then the solution to a lower FG is to
lower the mash temperature.
Steve Alexander
Ed Basgall
Dave Burley
Charley Burns
Al Korzonas
P.S. Anyone wishing to join our discussion, please contact Al. He will
get you up-to-date and will notify everyone to add you to the discussion
group. The next phase is underway. We are setting up the guidelines
for the experiment. More experimenters would certainly be welcome.
------------------------------
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 04 Sep 96 11:16:02 EDT
Subject: Duffy's inefficiency
Brewsters:
Duffy Toler describes a nearly perfect brewing session and still came up with a
lousy 0.18pts/lb/gal instead
of in the thirties where he belongs. Given his grain bill of 10#/5gals I would
have expected a number in the
high 50's or low sixties not 1.035 for the OG. I suppose it is possible the
malt was of poor quality, but
unlikely and probably not THAT bad.
Since you did so much correctly, is it possible that you had significant
channeling during sparging? Try changing your configuration for offtake from
the sparger and extending your sparge time to 1 hour. I gather
you are using a false bottom. If you have a serious gap around the edges, put
either nylon insect screening
( boiled for 15 min in detergent containing water to remove processing oils and
tastes) about 4" wide and a length slightly greater than the circumference of
the sparger. Place it around the edge ( 2" up the side of the sparger wall and
the remainder lying on the false bottom) or use a cloth to force the sparge
through the grain bed and not down the sides. Be sure to put a layer of 170F-
180F sparge liquor ( water adjusted to pH = 5.2 with lactic acid) about 1"
above
the top of the false bottom to prevent serious clogging of the drain holes
before you move the grain to the sparger. Spread the mash around evenly with it
piled up around the edges
for the first four or so inches to prevent channels forming along the edges.
Add the rest of the mash slowly in the middle and get a smooth bed. Let it
setle for a minute or so. Start the sparge slowly until the bed is
firmed. Recycle (heated back to 170F) wort until you get it to run clear.
Depending on your mash thickness, you may have to add some 170-180F sparge
water
to give you enough to recycle. Make sure the sparged
wort exit temperature is in the upper one hundred sixties throughout the
sparge. Check your SG of the
sparge and look at the color to judge when a sparge is finished. When you use
crystal malt that is easy to spot,since it will go colorless, although some
sugars and other solubles will still be coming through.
SG ( approx 1.010) or Clinitest ( < 2%) will tell you when to stop sparging.
Try raking the upper part ( to
within 6" of the bottom) of the grain bed periodically if this problem
persists. The grain bed should be at
least 6" and preferably more than a foot deep to get good clarification and
efficient sparging. Maybe increasing your batch size will help.
Although it doesn't sound like it is a problem, check the milling of the malt.
Each grain should break into several pieces and very little flour. Your short
sparge time indicates the milling could be a problem if channellig isn't.
Beef up your problem brew with some malt extract. Even if you have pitched
already, take out say a gallon
of brew, heat it up to boiling and add the malt extract, boil if the
manufacturer suggests it, cool and put it
back into the brew.
Let us know how it works out.
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
From: Scott Abene <sabene@fcg.net>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 11:01:21 -0600
Subject: Stainless Soldering
Has anyone been brave enough to do their own stainless soldering when
converting 1/2 barrels?
Private email welcome.
C'Ya!
- -Scott <sabene@fcg.net, skotrat@wwa.com, Copyright1996@poohgee.com>
***ALL OPINIONS EXPRESSED ARE MINE SO BUGGER OFF!!!***
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 96 12:32:23 CDT
Subject: Extraction Problems
Duffy writes:
>I used a 122 F protein rest for 30 minutes followed by a 152 F conversion
>rest for 50 minutes. The iodine test showed no starch left. I recirculated
>for 15 minutes and then sparged 5 gallons of 170 F/pH 5.2 water
>through(which took about 35 minutes) and collected about 6.5 gallons of
>sweet liquor. This was boiled down to about 5.25 gallons over 90 minutes.
> I ran it through my counterflow chiller and took a gravity reading. A
>lousy 1.035, or about 18 pts./lbs/gal.
First, I suggest doubling your sparge time. Try to make it last an hour.
Secondly, if you have room in your mash/laeuter tun, you could try adding
one more boiling water infusion to bring the mash to mashout temperatures
(as close to 176F as you can get without going over too much) before starting
to take runnings. These two changes will probably give you at least 25
points. If you don't get that, perhaps the crush was too coarse.
Incidentally, the 6-row will give you slightly fewer and 6-row American
Crystal will give you considerably fewer pts/lb/gal than 2-row base malts.
It's the husk-to-starch ratio. Something to consider.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2173
****************************
