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HOMEBREW Digest #2176
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/09/05 PDT
Homebrew Digest Friday, 6 September 1996 Number 2176
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Acronyms (eric fouch)
FDA regs online, dryhopping (DEBOLT BRUCE)
Bill's rantings/partial boils/scrubbing SS/Orval yeast (korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com)
Re: Brewing delay (lheavner@tcmail.frco.com)
Re: Abbreviations ((DON CHASE))
Mead Carbonation (RUSt1d?)
hogwash/bs/gripe/sparge time/frogwash (Scott Abene)
Crushing News, The Pits,Extract Potential, ("David R. Burley")
SS brewpots (Phil Kokoczka)
Potential screen for mash/laeuter tun? (Bruce Herron)
Old hops (korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com)
Duffy's extraction, grain in freezer ("Taber, Bruce")
KROC World Brewers Forum(c) (John Adams)
Under Carbonation (John Penn)
Re: knifing and channelling ((Jay Reeves))
Under Carbonation 2 (John Penn)
Knifing and channelling... (Jim Cave)
Extraction Efficency Woes ("Toler, Duffy L.")
Re: Cleaning Kegs ("David Root")
Propane Tank ("David Root")
Malt extract. (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
Lautering with Attitude (Charlie Scandrett)
Calcium computation ("Robert L. Snyder")
Channeling (Charlie Scandrett)
State homebrewing statutes (Leslie Sweeney)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: eric fouch <S=eric_fouch%S=fouch%G=eric%DDA=ID=STC021+pefouch%Steelcase-Inc@mcimail.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 96 13:17 EST
Subject: Acronyms
Date: Thursday, 5 September 1996 2:14pm ET
To: STC012.HONLY@STC010.SNADS
From: Eric.Fouch@STC001
Subject: Acronyms
In-Reply-To: FYIYCTAJ!
O.K.,
Finally, a partially definitive list of acronyms and their definitions:
BTW - Brewing This Weekend
FWIW - Fermented With Infected Wienstephans
TIA - This Is Assinine
IMHO - I'm Married, Horny and Obese
YMMV - You Make Me Vomit
HSA - Hombrewers Sanity Assylum
RDWHAHB - Rehabilitated Drunk With a Huge Appetite for Homebrew
NOKOMAREE - Obscure referance to the Aztec god of flatuence and gorilla dust.
I hope this clears things up a bit.
E-man
"If you love something, set it free. If it doesn't come back, hunt it, kill
itand eat it."
Copywrite Ted Nugent
------------------------------
From: DEBOLT BRUCE <bdebolt@dow.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 96 14:27:45 -0400
Subject: FDA regs online, dryhopping
For those who would like to look up FDA regulations on line you can find
them at: http://law.house.gov/cfr.htm
Click on the "14 Most Frequently Asked Questions" and go from there. Most
food uses of plastics, resins, adhesives, etc. are found in the 21 CFR
section. CFR = Code of Federal Regulations.
Dry hopping - I've done the marbles-in-a-bag routine more than once, but I
won't do it again. My advice is to just dump the hops (pellets or whole)
into your fermenter as is. When it comes time to bottle put a sanitized
nylon strainer bag over you racking cane (or nylon hose as recommended
before on HBD). You will find very little to zero hop residue is
transferred over.
If you use the hop pellets in a bag method you will find that some of the
contents will work its way out of the bag anyway.
I agree with Al K. on this on this one, keep it simple. And don't forget,
you can dry hop in the primary. Just use a glass fermenter and keep the
temperature down.
Bruce DeBolt
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 96 13:44:30 CDT
Subject: Bill's rantings/partial boils/scrubbing SS/Orval yeast
Bill writes, quoting me:
>>The answer to your question is: throw the tubing out and buy more. You
>>can't clean it well enough to siphon beer with it anymore.
>Wrong you can clean tubing with a tubing brush. No PROBLEM!
Using a tubing brush to try to clean blowoff out of a 5/16" ID plastic tube
will:
1. take forever, and
2. probably scratch the inside which will give bacteria a place to hide
(remember... he wants to siphon beer and (possibly) wort through it).
Bill again:
>Why bother to use a blowoff tube in the first place. Use a bigger carboy
>or a crock or a bigger pail. Al I would hope that we are all smart
>enough to use food grade, but why 5/16" I think that is a bit small. Why
>not 3/8" or 1/2"? Far better in my most humble and unknowing opinion.
Why? Because he already owns a carboy which blows off. He can brew 4 gallons in
stead of 5, but this is 20% less beer for the same amount of work. Why make him
buy
a $19.00 carboy or $10.00 pail when he could buy a $4.00 hose?
As for food grade, there was a post here in HBD about a guy who made 5 gallons
of plastic-flavoured beer by siphoning through hardware-store-variety PVC hose.
We're not all as smart as you, Bill.
Why 5/16" and not 3/8" or 1/2"? Because 5/16" is the proper size for the
standard
racking canes and bottling wands. A larger size increases the likelyhood that a
bubble would form where the racking cane meets the tubing. If you simply stick
the
hose in the bucket without a racking cane and don't use a bottle filler, then
any size tubing that will fit into the neck of a bottle will work.
I'm tempted to call you some name, Bill, but it's not worth further cluttering
HBD with bile. If you have a personal problem with me, send me private email,
don't
waste everyone else's time.
***
Spencer writes:
>For a full-volume boil, use the following hopping schedule:
>
>4 HBUs of Noble hops (Hallertau, Tettnang) for 60 min.
>4 HBUs of Noble hops for 30 min.
>4 HBUs of Noble hops for 15 min.
>
>For a 1/2-volume boil, double the first two hop additions.
I believe (based upon Rager's formulas) that only 22% more hops are needed
if you boil 2.5 gallons in stead of 5 (for this gravity beer (about 1.047)).
***
David writes:
>Is it OK to clean my converted brewing kegs with a steel wool pad?
Only the outside. I've read (here in HBD) that overscrubbing stainless steel
will wear off the oxide layer and the beer you make will taste metallic till
the oxide layer reforms.
***
MaltyDog writes:
>We did a split batch, with the Orval yeast being entered in the
>primary, or entered the secondary, and a different primary yeast (a Chimay
>culture or Chico ale yeast). In all cases, the beer came out very delicious,
>with a strong Orval-like aroma and flavor.
>
>However, there was something odd about all three batches. The attenuation on
>the beer was insane! The starting gravity was 1.054, pretty much true to
>style, and the finishing gravity, on all three batches was 0.099! I've never
>had a finishing gravity that low.
Orval is bottled with a blend of yeasts, one of which is a Brettanomyces
strain.
It is this Brett yeast that gives Orval that characteristic nose. Brettanomyces
yeasts are known for being very good attenuators. The attenuation I got from
the
yeast I cultured from a bottle of Orval (and did make beer that smelled/tasted
like
Orval) had about 80-85% apparent attenuation. Any chance you got a slight
bacterial
infection in those three batches? Incidentally, this yeast is incredibly
ssslllooowww.
Actually, Orval is fermented with a more neutral, Saccharomyces yeast and then
conditioned warm with the Brett yeast.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
------------------------------
From: lheavner@tcmail.frco.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:43:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Brewing delay
Thanks for the quick response. I had half a dozen, before I even got
the last digest with my question in it. Most suggested just building
a bigger starter a few hours or a day before brewing. Some suggested
building a starter in the first place, so my message must have been
unclear. My friend had already built a 12 oz starter in a 16 oz mason
jar and it was estimated to reach high krausen last night. This was
only his 3rd batch, 2nd with liquid yeast, and he has already learned
to relax.
Lou
------------------------------
From: wchase@alpha.utampa.edu (DON CHASE)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 14:07:58 -0400
Subject: Re: Abbreviations
Although this is probably in a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) somewhere,
I will fill in the blanks for Mr. Root.
IMHO = In My Humble Opinion (IMO = In My Opinion)
BTW = By The Way
YMMV = Your Milage May Vary (Level 5 Geekspeak, I had to look it up)
Some others:
LOL = Laughing Out Loud
ROTFL = Rolling On The Floor Laughing
RDWHAHB = Relax, Don't Worry. Have A HomeBrew
And my personal favorite:
RTFM = Read The F****** Manual
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Chase | Hombrewing : the only sport open exclusively
Objectivist...Businessman... | to anal-retentive alcoholics.
Homebrewer. | Relax...have a homebrew.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@li.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 15:09:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mead Carbonation
I am about to bottle a couple of gallon jugs of mead I have and
was wondering how much corn sugar is required to carbonate a
25oz bottle? Since there are only going to be about 5 25oz bottles
I figure it is probably easier to bottle prime than batch prime.
I plan on using 1 teaspoon of corn sugar for each 25oz bottle.
Any one see any holes in this procedure?
John Varady
Boneyard Brewing Co.
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow"
------------------------------
From: Scott Abene <sabene@fcg.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 14:13:51 -0600
Subject: hogwash/bs/gripe/sparge time/frogwash
>Bill Giffin said of Al K's suggestion to double sparge time and mash out
>close
>to 176F:
>
>>>Mostly hogwash! You will also have a poorer beer.
***RANT MODE ON***
Okay here is my two cents on this subject:
Hey Bill,
Have you ever read a book about brewing methods or practices?
Do you do all your sparging in less than ten minutes?
Do you stir your sparge to?
Have you ever even brewed All-Grain?
I have in just about every brewing science/homebrewing book read that the
minimal sparge time for a good clear wort is between 35-45 minutes at temp
in excess of 170 f. You are also supposed to re-circulate your sparge which
for me almost always causes me to have at least a 40 minute sparge time.
I think it's one thing to give your opinion to the HBD and another to down
right be rude. Al is one of the best read brewers in this forum and whether
you like him or not, the man at least deserves the right to be treated in a
decent manner.
I personally am getting really sick of this forum being treated like a
flame zone.
If anyone is going to call someone else's post a piece of shit and say it's
wrong then for cripes sake BACK IT UP WITH THE CORRECT ANSWER TO THE
ORIGINAL STATEMENT.
If you know the way then enlighten us with the correct answers and stop
bashing fellow brewers with your FUNDEMENTALIST FROGWASH!
***RANT MODE OFF***
Have a nice day! :)
- -Scott "I have ben drinking to much coffee" Abene
------------------------------
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 05 Sep 96 15:26:34 EDT
Subject: Crushing News, The Pits,Extract Potential,
Brewsters:
AlK says he thinks malt should be crushed until it is ideally *all* flour Maybe
he has a different definition of flour than most people.
Gregg Noonan in his "New Brewing Lager Beer" p 122-123
"The best grist is obtained from six-row malt mills, which crush the malt by
running it between three successive pairs of rolls ten to twelve inches in
diameter, each pair being set closer together and turning faster than the
previous pair. Screens are placed between each set of rolls to allow the fine
grits to fall through, so they are *not* pulverized into *flour* by further
crushing.More than 75 percent of the malt may be reduced to grits in this
manner
- - the remaining part being hulls and flour. *More than 10 percent flour is
undesirable* because it balls and cakes readily. Balled flour is inaccessible
to enzymes and results in unconverted starch, some of which washes into the
wort
during sparging, causing an irreversible haze in the beer."
Not to mention a set mash and a difficult sparge for a grist with lots of
flour.
He goes on to say that coarsely ground malts are no good either, since they
give
poor extract efficiency. Only well modified malts can use a coarse crush and
not give reduced efficiency.
*Emphasis* is mine
Acccording to M&BS 1st ed. P242:
US Std. Mesh
Mesh #s Width (mm) Pfungstadt
Characteristics
10 2.000 -
Husks held
14 1.410 1
Husks Held
18 1.000 2
Husks held
30 0.590 3
Coarse grits held
60 0.250 4
Fine Grits held
100 0.149 5
Ordinary flour held
Fine flour falls through
Maybe your grist has too much flour and this is the reason you have to mix the
water into your grist to avoid flour balls, Al.
I could recommend a good mill........
- --------------------------------------------------------
Dave Greenlee asks if smoke from peach tree wood contains cyanide as he heard
that all parts of the peach trees are loaded with cyanide.
I sincerely doubt it.
This rumor may have started when someone tasted the pit which has the aroma of
bitter almonds and which is the smell of hydrogen cyanide. A secret to making a
peach pie peachier is to grate a little of the almond shaped pit ( inside the
hard shell) into the pie. It adds a subtle difference. Lots of state fair
prizes are won this way. Lots of things smell like bitter almonds, a benzene
ring with a highly polar substitution. like a nitro or cyano group smells of
bitter almonds. It has to do with the shape and polarity of the detector site
in
the nose and the shape and polarity of the chemical in the vapor. If they match
up, Bingo! Bitter almond or Saaz or Cascades ...............
- -------------------------------------------------------------
Dave G. Look in Papazian's books for extract potential tables. His HB Companion
has two pages of "Malt Table" plus later info on adjuncts. You may have to ask
the manufacturer about liquid malt extracts or measure it yourself with a
hydrometer after you dilute a weighed amount. All DMEs should be the same.
- -------------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
Kinnelon, NJ 07405
------------------------------
From: Phil Kokoczka <pak@lbwl.com>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 15:32:06 -0500
Subject: SS brewpots
I have been reading exchanges on SS kettles and metallic tastes from
using them. I have a new 10 gal. Vollrath and would like to know how to
passivate the monster, or if it is really necessary with a kettle of this
quality. I have been using an enamel covered stamped steel canning
kettle and am looking forward to the Vollrath.
thanks,
Phil Kokoczka, brewmeister
Piss Ant Brewing, a division of
Grand River Brewing
------------------------------
From: Bruce Herron <herron@wadsworth.org>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 15:47:58 -0400
Subject: Potential screen for mash/laeuter tun?
So there I was in Home Depot (you know this is going no where good),
and I come across some plastic siding louver vents, 18X12". these vents are
made of lead free plastic(I checked), and have a zig zag surface on which
the zig side is full of 3 cm slots; the vent part, and the zag is solid
white plastic. These dimensions are such that it fits right in the bottom of
a 48 quart cooler that I want to use for mashing, so I'm thinking about
using this vent as a a screen.
I have heard various cautions about using plastic that is not food
grade, this vent most likely is not, so what are the potential nasties that
could be in it other than lead which should be watched for? What are the
preferred alternatives, keeping in mind I don't prefer to sit in front of a
plastic bucket for an hour with my power drill. Thanks for you input!
__ __ Bruce Herron
/ \ / \ Developmental Genetics
( _""_ ) David Axelrod Institute
- o o - 120 New Scotland Ave.
\ / Albany, NY 12208
===\ /=== Phone (518) 474-3341
O FAX (518) 474-3181
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 96 15:35:15 CDT
Subject: Old hops
Dave writes:
>I guess that means too many hops lead to hazy beer! Maybe one of the reasons
>Belgians use old hops in which the polyphenols are oxidized and polymerized (
>low bitterness) and insoluble in wort is because they don't cause a haze
>problem.
Most Belgian brewers use fresh hops. Only Lambic/Lambiek brewers use
aged hops.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
------------------------------
From: "Taber, Bruce" <BRUCE.TABER@nrc.ca>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 16:07:00 EDT
Subject: Duffy's extraction, grain in freezer
The Duffy's extraction thread is a good one. Poor extraction is
probably a concern of 90% of all-grain brewers. I typically get around 23 -
25 pt/lb/gal. This is a far cry from the 30 - 35 pt/lb/gal that I often see
referred to. My next step to improve my extraction will be to add some
gypsum to my water to lower the ph. I don't have a fancy ph meter and the
papers don't seem to work in my dark ales so I'm just going to wing it. My
water is very soft so I'll try 8g per 5 US gal. After that I think I'll
look at trying a finer grind of my grains.
Anyway, I have two questions. Regarding improving extraction rates
Mark Bayer states;
> 6) extend the sacch. rest to 1.5 or 2 hours, regardless of the iodine
test .
Why? Should the iodine test not be trusted? Is there substantially
more sugar available even after the iodine shows no color change? Do I
really have to sit and watch sitcoms for an extra hour during brewing?
My second question is, can I store malted grains in my freezer? I have
room in my freezer but my wife keeps filling the fridge with food! I've
tried to reason with her but to no avail.
Back to lurking. Keep brewing.
Bruce Taber
Almonte, Ont.
taber@irc.lan.nrc.ca
------------------------------
From: John Adams <jadams@pipeline.cnd.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 14:56:42 -0600
Subject: KROC World Brewers Forum(c)
_________________________________________________________________
=
Second Annual
KROC World Brewers Forum=A9
_________________________________________________________________
=
Colorado's foremost homebrew club, The Keg Ran Out Club (KROC), in
conjunction with The BIRCO Corporation and The Napa Valley Brewing
Co. are very excited to bring two world re-known brew masters to the
second annual KROC World Brewers Forum=A9
=
Dave Miller
Brew master at Blackstone Restaurant & Brewery and Author of
"Continental Pilsener" and "The Complete Handbook of Home
Brewing."
=
Fred Eckhardt
Beer historian, homebrewer, beer enthusiast, and Author of
"The Essentials of Beer Style."
=
Last year's KROC World Brewers Forum=A9 with Pierre Celis and Greg
Noonan offered an excellent opportunity to enjoy beers with
international, national, and local brewers.
=
Continuing with the tradition this year's event is open to all
interested brewers and beer lovers. Admission will be free, door
prizes will be raffled, and beer will be provided! Seating is limited=
to the first 100 individuals so please RSVP to reserve your seat.
______________________________________________________________________=
=
When: 7pm Thursday, September 26, 1996
Where: The Broadway Brewing Co.,
2441 Broadway, Denver Colorado (near Coors Field)
RSVP: (303) 460-1776 (Homebrew Hut) or mailto:j_adams@fc.hp.com
______________________________________________________________________=
=
Sponsored by:
The BIRCO Corporation
The Napa Valley Brewing Co.
The Homebrew Hut
The Broadway Brewing Co.
------------------------------
From: John Penn <john_penn@jhuapl.edu>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 16:56:23 +0000
Subject: Under Carbonation
Allen asks about under carbonation.
Seems to have been a lot in HBD about carbonation and the advice to
weigh the dextrose was a good one. I did this recently and would have
undershot my result by 20% if I had only gone by volume. 3/4 cup of
dextrose should be 4oz by weight, but measure it by weight as it might
take a bit more than 3/4 cup. Note that many kits come with 5oz
probably because American beers are more carbonated generally speaking
than your average British or German. I recently tried carbonating with
1 cup of honey and that worked quite well and quickly. Since the recipe
had honey in it, I wasn't worried about changing the taste of the beer
too much by using honey. If you are carbonating a lager or something
that isn't near room temperature (70F), you will have to correct for the
dissolved CO2 in your wort and there's a couple of good articles on the
brewery for carbonation.
1) Don't aerate at bottling to active the yeast. BAD BAD BAD.
2) Be patient! It may take some time to carbonate especially if you
try malt extract. All of my beers that seemed undercarbonated at first
got better with time. Seems that the stronger beers take longer to
carbonate too.
Hope that helps.
John Penn
------------------------------
From: jay@ro.com (Jay Reeves)
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 16:06:40 -0500
Subject: Re: knifing and channelling
In HBD2174, Al Korzonas said:
>I believe that the HBD came to an concensus that knifing the grain bed a
>few times during the *laeuter* increased channelling. Channelling is
I don't think anyone has the right to speak for the HBD as a whole.
I did a search on on that thread and Charlie Scandrett was the only
other person that posted publicly in favor of what Al writes above,
although Charlie did put a lot of "if"'s in there. From what I saw,
there was no "concensus" from the collective.
Charlie's article was an extremely good argument on the subject which
appeared in HBD1984.
Did you ever finish that Lauter FAQ, Charlie?
-Jay Reeves
Huntsville, Alabama, USA
------------------------------
From: John Penn <john_penn@jhuapl.edu>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 17:12:18 +0000
Subject: Under Carbonation 2
Follow on to Allen,
Though I think carbonation and head are related, I think of
carbonation as the bubbling rate of the beer and head as the foam you
get when you pour the beer. While a very carbonated beer will probably
give a good head it may not hold the head depending on a number of other
factors. I don't think you are getting bad carbonation just because the
head falls off. I've heard wheat helps head retention maybe some wiser
persons than myself can post some information on head vs. carbonation.
Hope this helps.
John Penn
------------------------------
From: Jim Cave <CAVE@PSC.ORG>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 14:34:43 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Knifing and channelling...
I'm not sure Al, if the HBD came to a consensus on this subject.
Concensus is not the correct way to go about solving this discussion.
Some sort of study should be warrented. I'm not one for Aristotelian
logic.
I suspect, that channelling is more severe (in stuck sparges)
in beds that are uncut. Since many breweries use a process of "cutting"
the grainbed, it seems somewhat logical that it aids in the lautering
process in someway. It would be counter productive if it increased
channelling. Just an opinion mind. I'll wait for the study.
Jim Cave
------------------------------
From: "Toler, Duffy L." <TOLERD@cdnet.cod.edu>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 96 16:38:00 PDT
Subject: Extraction Efficency Woes
Many thanks to George, Mark, Al, Mike, Ron, John, Jeff, Spencer, Steve,
Dave, Ian and others who provided me with advice on solving my efficency
problems. For any other new all-grainers out there, here are some common
responses that are easily solved:
-Ensure the crush is adequate
-Calibrate your thermometer and your hydrometer
-Use a loongg slooww sparge, sparge until runnings are 1.010
-Use a mash out step whenever possible, keep your grain bed hot during the
sparge
-Make sure the temp of the sparge water is 170 *at the grain bed*
-Use a acidification reset if possible
Thanks to all!
Duffy
------------------------------
From: "David Root" <droot@concentric.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:14:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Cleaning Kegs
David Root Droot@concentric.net Lockport NY
Thanks to everyone that responded to my clenaing question. It seems
that Scotchbrite or a copper pad would be best to clean my keg instead
of steel wool. YMMV = Your milage may vary Thanks again
------------------------------
From: "David Root" <droot@concentric.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:13:00 -0400
Subject: Propane Tank
David Root Droot@concentric.net Lockport NY
I hope this helps some people. I was brewing in my back yard when I ran
out of
propane. Since my neighbor was not home, I "borrowed" his tank. When I
was
returning the tank, he pulled into the driveway. I was a little
embaressed.
The trick to LP (liquid propane) tanks is to weigh the tank and you will
know
how much is in it. An empty tank weighs 18 Lbs. It holds 20 Lbs of
propane.
38 Lbs for a full tank, and 18 empty.
Another way is to pour hot water down the side. Where the liquid
propane levil is, the tank will be colder than where it is not. This works
well.
------------------------------
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb@elmer.fing.edu.uy>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:44:41 -0300 (UY)
Subject: Malt extract.
Dear friends:
As I have already informed you, it is very difficult to find brewing
ingredients in my country (Uruguay). For this and because I am decided to
homebrew, I have been looking different ways to obtain what I need. I can
get pale ale malt, s. cererevisiae and bayanus for wine production and
probably some kind of hops.
I have also find now a certain malt extract used to make bread. This malt
extract contains:
maltose 45 - 55%
dextrine 20%
proteins 5 -6%
ash 30. - 3.2%
total solids 73 - 75%
Brix 80 - 83
I wonder whether this kind of malt extract is appropriate for brewing
some kind of beer. Any suggestions or comments?
It seems that the most difficult products to get here are hops. For this
reason, I also want to ask you if there is any other product different
from hops for "hopping" beer. Any suggestion?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
Jorge Blasig
------------------------------
From: Charlie Scandrett <merino@buggs.cynergy.com.au>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:22:09 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Lautering with Attitude
Bill Griffin posted,
BG>Subject: Extraction rate
BG>>Again the God speaks, Al K:
AK>First, I suggest doubling your sparge time. Try to make it last an hour.
Charlie> This is sound advice, the time for low sugar-concentrated sparge
water to osmotically penetrate sugar-concentrated grain particles and leach
out sugars is longer than it takes for the sparge water to simply run
through the bed. Thus, for efficient extraction, the slower sparge the
better, limited only by boredom or lactic bacteria activity. This requires
some outlet restriction to slow it down, big brewers call this valve a
"grant valve".
AK>Secondly, if you have room in your mash/laeuter tun, you could try adding
AK>one more boiling water infusion to bring the mash to mashout temperatures
AK>(as close to 176F as you can get without going over too much) before
AK>starting to take runnings.
Charlie> Also sound advice, the mashout temperature with improve solubility
of sugars and lauter bed permeability, and terminate any residual
lipoxygenase (enzymic staling) activity.
AK> These two changes will probably give you at least 25
AK>points. If you don't get that, perhaps the crush was too coarse.
<<
BG>Mostly hogwash! You will also have a poorer beer.
Charlie> Why is it "hogwash"? This advice is supported both by brewing
science and my own experimentation with a control batch for comparison. I am
interested to know why these techniques lead to a "poorer beer" because I am
preparing a lauter FAQ? Do you have references I could study?
Bill>Go to the problem,
Bill>the crush. At least 50% of your crushed grain should pass through a
Bill>normal window screen.
Charlie>Yes it should, that is a good rule of thumb, easily checkable by
homebrewers. BUT, the fine/coarse difference published for most modern malts
is less than 3%. That means in a *laboratory* they found less than 3%
difference extraction between flour and the coarsest of crushes. This is
less than 1 point per gallon!
However, as Al K likes to point out, homebrewers don't brew in laboratories!
With rapid lautering at lower temperatures, the fineness of the crush will
make a much bigger difference. This is indicative of poor lautering, not
poor crushing.
I recommend as coarse a crush as possible to reduce polyphenol extraction. I
also recommend a very slow lauter to reduce foam-negative and
staling-negative lipid extraction. For the same reasons I suggest
terminating the sparge at 1.015 SG. The coarse crush and earlier termination
will reduce your extraction points slightly, maybe 2 points max, but enonomy
of grain usage to that extent shouldn't worry a homebrewer.
The suggestions of forced lautering by squeezing the bed *after sparge* will
improve the extraction at the expense of increased lipid extraction.
Squeezing it *instead of sparge* will reduce extraction dramatically. As I
pointed out above, the lauter is not just a mechanical process, solubility
and osmotic cross-particle pressures play a part which simple squeezing
precludes. The rapid lauter by water under pressure in frame type mash
filters is being abandoned because of high lipid extraction. In commercial
brewing the Stainmasterss and mash filters are increasingly giving way to
the traditional lauter tun.
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
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From: "Robert L. Snyder" <rsnyder@universaltech.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Sep 1996 19:30:21 -0400
Subject: Calcium computation
I've been lurking here for a while, and have definitely picked up
a ton of solid information, for which I thank everyone. I either
missed, or perhaps it never was mentioned, any way to figure the
amount of Calcium in water. An analysis that I have indicates the
CaCo3 Alkalinity, Calcium Hardness as CaCo3 = 169 and Total Hardness
as CaCo3 = 228.
Does a simple subtraction there give me the amount of temporary
hardness?
A comment - not to get on the wrong foot here, but today's replies
by Bill Giffin to Al K. seemed somewhat harsh. Unless they are
good buddies, I would imagine a discussion could be carried out
without using words like "Hogwash".
Along with that, I take it that Al K. is subtly suggesting that,
indeed, the sparging time needed to be lengthened. Bill says, in
effect, that this should be ignored and that the real problem, in
his opinion, was the coarse grind. According to the literature
I have read, 35 minutes of sparging is really way too fast. Since
it is a whole lot easier to check the matter by increasing the
sparge time, Bill, perhaps this might be the first thing to check--
even though it is surely possible that the grind was too coarse.
Just a thought.
Bob Snyder
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From: Charlie Scandrett <merino@buggs.cynergy.com.au>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:39:06 +1000 (EST)
Subject: Channeling
Al K wrote,
AK>I believe that the HBD came to an concensus that knifing the grain bed a
>few times during the *laeuter* increased channelling. Channelling is
>where the sparge water establishes a sort of "river" in the grain bed and
>continues to flow down that path of least resistance forgoing the
>extraction of sugars from surrounding grain. Poking a knife or skewer
>into the grain bed would only *create* a path, not prevent its creation.
Iwasn't part of this consensus. Cutting any depth is not going to create
channeling *if the flow is stopped*. It makes sense, no flow, no river
effect. However if you cut really deep you will need to recirculate a bit to
re-establish "set" and clarity. Cutting will cause the resettling of grain
particles.
Al K>If channelling is suspected then stirring the top 1/2 or 2/3 of the bed
>would help. Also, I would also suggest diverting the runnings and
>recirculating after the stirring because cloudy wort is bound to start
>running during the stirring of the bed.
I wouldn't touch a *flowing* bed to counteract channelling. I *would* cut
the top 1/4 of the flowing bed to aleviate sticking of the sparge because
the semi-impervious top dough is there. If you want to correct channeling,
stop the flow. However in my experiments, I have trouble *inducing*
channeling in small lauters. I am beginning to suspect it is more a large
scale problem that we HBers are blaming for other problems.
Al K>I've just thought of a test to see if you are experiencing channelling.
Al K>Half way through the laeuter, divert the runnings to a quart jar. After
Al K>you've got it half full, divert to a second quart jar and immediately
Al K>stir the top half of the mash. Measure the SG of the runnings. If the
Al K>OG in jar 2 is significantly higher than that in jar 1, you have Al
K>channelling problems. I'm going to try this on my next batch.
I'll try it too, sounds good.
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
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From: Leslie Sweeney <lsweeney@hiwaay.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 19:14:38 -0500
Subject: State homebrewing statutes
Ray wants to know:
>Anyone have any specifics on the Homebrew laws in Washington state? =20
Digging around at the Brewery site once upon a time I found the
following: Statutory Recognition of the home production of beer, at
http://alpha.rollanet.org/AOB/legal/list.html
The authors seem to have done a very thorough job of researching the
various applicable statutes for each state. =20
As to Ray's specific concerns about WA:
[begin statutes]
Special Provisions:
=A766.28.140 provides for the removal of family wine or beer (implied by
=A766.12.010) for use in tastings or competitions.=20
66.12.010. Wine or beer manufactured for home use=20
Nothing in this title other than RCW 66.28.140, applies to wine or
beer manufactured in any home for consumption therein, and not for
sale.=20
66.28.140. Removing family wine from home for exhibition or use at
wine tastings or competitions--Conditions=20
(1) An adult member of a household may remove family wine from the
home for exhibition or use at organized wine tastings or competitions,
subject to the following conditions:=20
(a) The quantity removed by a producer for these purposes is limited
to a quantity not exceeding one gallon;=20
(b) Family wine is not removed for sale or for the use of any person
other than the producer. This subparagraph does not preclude any
necessary tasting of the wine when the exhibition or wine tasting
includes judging the merits of the wine by judges who have been
selected by the organization sponsoring the affair; and=20
(c) When the display contest or judging purpose has been served, any
remaining portion of the sample is returned to the family premises
from which removed.=20
(2) As used in this section, "family wine" means wine manufactured in
the home for consumption therein, and not for sale.=20
[end statutes]
You might get away with calling the reception a "tasting" however I
think rule 1 (a) would get you with the 1 gallon limit.
- --
Bob Sweeney
home - lsweeney@hiwaay.net
office - bsweeney@unanov.una.edu
I like my beer dark and bitter--like my personality.
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End of Homebrew Digest #2176
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