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HOMEBREW Digest #2166
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/08/29 PDT
Homebrew Digest Thursday, 29 August 1996 Number 2166
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
New Copyright Notice ((Shawn Steele))
hsa (M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac))
RE: Sorghum/Eurocentrists (John Wilkinson)
More on wort cooling ((John W. Carpenter))
Re: Gypsum (korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com)
Boil over ((William P Giffin))
15.5 half barrels ((Kevin O'Connor))
Partial Sparging / Gypseous Brain Cramp / How Much = Enough SO4 (KennyEddy@aol.com)
Re: Strange yeast question (Paul Ward)
Electrical Safety 101 / Partial Decoction (RANDY ERICKSON)
Re: Heater Voltage (Kelly Jones)
Re: Wringing hop/grain bags ("Mark C. Bellefeuille")
HSA/rumours of the demise of my brewery have been greatly exaggerated (korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com)
Wyeast American II / Jet Bu ("Craig Rode")
Smoked Grain Sources! ("Rick Creighton")
Re: Wyeast American II / Jet Bu (RUSt1d?)
Lager yeasts and starters (Steve)
AAAAARGH!/microwaves/weighing gypsum/magnesium (korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com)
Element size (Carrick Legrismith)
RE: BOIL OVERS (Joe Rolfe)
Laxative, HSA, ("David R. Burley")
Pumpkin,Newbie, ("David R. Burley")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: shawn@aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:02:48 -0600
Subject: New Copyright Notice
As the request of the members of the Homebrew Digest, I have added a
guideline to the banner regarding the copyright of the HBD. I would
like to point out that the copyright of the HBD is precarious at best.
In accordance with U.S. copyright law, posts are the property of the
original poster. The HBD may NOT be legally reprinted for profit and
at this point I very much doubt that the HBD could even give permission
for reprints of the archives. People have done so before without
asking permission, which, at best case, is quite rude. Previously, as
a FREE service, the HBD has never had any money to fight illicit
reproduction of the HBD. The HBD's current sponsors have better
lawyers.
I am not a copyright lawyer, but there are some common misconceptions
running around that I'd like to take this opportunity to step on:
1. Copyright law varies when used Internationally (and the HBD is
distributed Internationally). Chinese can copy the HBD and sell it for
$1,000,000 a copy, Americans can't. (U.S. copyright laws don't work in
China.) Most countries will honor the U.S. copyright claim of the HBD.
2. ANY written or otherwise created material IS copyrighted from the
time of it's creation according to U.S. copyright law. Such material
does NOT have to be registered with any authorities, however:
3. It is difficult to prove the actual creation date of a work unless
a copyright is registered with the copyright office. Since the HBD is
published on a regular basis and widely distributed, it would be a bit
easier to prove copyright claims than for one's regular casual e-mail,
even though the paperwork is not filed. Paperwork filing is great if
you have a book or story you want to sell and are afraid that the
people you send it to will try to steal it. If you've already sold a
million copy best seller, filing paperwork on it is going to be a bit
redundant. (But if your book's worth that much it only costs a few
dollars, so you might as well be protected.)
4. I'm not a copyright lawyer, so you should contact one if this is a
dire concern of yours. If you intend to copy the HBD and sell it,
perhaps your lawyer should then contact ours.
I've had enough of this thread and I truly believe that it's quite
pathetic that the Internet has fallen to such levels. The free sharing
of ideas used to be a strong feature of the 'net, but now everyone just
wants to figure out how to use someone else's ideas to make a quick
buck.
- - shawn
Shawn Steele
Digest Janitor
------------------------------
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:54 -0600
Subject: hsa
collective homebrew conscience:
aaron herrick wrote:
>When sparging my grain with a rotating sparge arm, I noticed ample
>opportunity for aeration and this brings up two theories I would like you
>to criticize:
>1) aeration poses no danger until the addition of hops
i've always read that the danger is in aerating the mash liquor, or wort, and
not the sparge water. from what i recall, aerating wort, particularly for
darker styles, oxidizes melanoidins which leads to quicker staling and off
flavors. unoxidized melanoidins help preserve the stability of the beer in
the bottle, so if you oxidize them early (during wort handling, pre-boil),
you lose their ability to help preserve your beer flavor later. boiling
the wort does not undo this oxidation of melanoidins. there may be other
effects of oxidation other than this one; i'm not positive.
just to clarify this now, because i know somebody out there might misinterpret
it, this is hot side aeration, during mashing and sparging, pre-boil, and
not aerating cold wort post boil to help dissolve oxygen into the cooled wort.
i can definitely say that in my experience, your proposition #1 above is not
likely to be true. i say this because of a homebrew that was tasted at a
meeting of the st louis brews ( i AM affiliated and PROUD of it) a while ago,
which displayed tremendous oxidation characteristics. it was a pale ale, i
believe, and we quizzed the brewer to try and determine the problem. finally,
it was discovered that his outlet from his lauter tun had no hose affixed, and
the mash liquor was allowed to splash into the collecting vessel (grant,kettle)
for the entire process of vorlauf and sparging. this was the last thing we
asked about, after quizzing him on racking and post boil procedures. we decided
this was probably the cause. so his oxidation problems occurred as a result
of mash handling, before the hops were probably even out of the freezer.
again, this beer was heavily oxidized, and not that old as i recall. we really
dissected his method.
now, just to confuse the issue, i've heard a lot of debate on this topic,
about how microbrewers all across the country heavily oxidize their mashes
and wort during mashing and sparging, and how it makes no difference because
their beer turns out fine. i'm not sure i believe this, really. maybe if
you drink a microbrew that's very fresh, you notice no flavor problems. but,
let that beer sit in the bottle for a few months and then see what happens.
there was an interesting article in consumer reports recently that rated beers,
including mega-brewery products and microbrews. it was quite shocking,
really, what they concluded with regard to how the beers stacked up, flavor-
wise.
why take a chance? be gentle with your wort. i'm curious to know what others
think about this issue. i'm sure it's been covered, but i haven't been around
that long in this forum.
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 12:09:00 -0500
Subject: RE: Sorghum/Eurocentrists
Ordinarily I don't respond to things such as what Bill Ridgely and Ron_Barber
said.
Ron_Barber: Right on, right on, to Bill Ridgely re: Sorghum. Thanks for setting
the Eurocentrists straight.
They certainly have a right to their opinions, as do I, but I don't think
hbd is the place to discuss these non-beer related things. The guy who thought
Sorghum beer was foul is certainly entitled to his opinion too. I don't recall
anyone jumping all over people for saying much worse things about Bud/Miller/
Coors. How about keeping hbd to beer discussions.
John Wilkinson
------------------------------
From: jwc@med.unc.edu (John W. Carpenter)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96 13:12:44 EDT
Subject: More on wort cooling
If you have kegging equip. you can just fill a keg with water and put it
in the frig. and chill over night. After your boil, just hook up the keg
to your chiller and blow the cold water through the chiller with CO2 at
what ever flow you like. I guess you could put your keg higher than your
kettle and use gravity, but CO2 is cheap.
John Carpenter, Chapel cHill, NC
email - jwc@med.unc.edu
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96 12:34:18 CDT
Subject: Re: Gypsum
Damn! Indeed a brain cramp. Initially, I wrote 141.5 ppm of SO4 from
1tsp in 5gal. Then, I figured that this would imply something tied to
5 gallons and would be misleading. So, I figured it would be better to
give it in ppm from 1tsp in 1 gallon. In stead of punching "x 5" keys on
the calculator, I must have hit "/ 5" which gave me the wrong number.
What I meant to say was that 1 teaspoon of gypsum in 1 gallon gives
about 708 ppm of SO4. Sorry about that.
Al.
------------------------------
From: bill-giffin@juno.com (William P Giffin)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 13:47:02 cst
Subject: Boil over
The most effective method to avoid boil overs is to reduce the heat.
Bill
------------------------------
From: koco@lsil.com (Kevin O'Connor)
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 10:53:28 -0700
Subject: 15.5 half barrels
Greetings fellow brewers,
Question: Has anyone on this collective used 15.5 gal half barrels
for kegging homebrew? I have acquired one of these kegs from a friend
who never returned it after a party. After it sat in his garage for
three months, it's been sitting in mine for the past two.
I'm at the point where I should do something with it or perhaps turn
it back for whatever deposit I can get. If you have any information
regarding using these kegs, I'd greatly appreciate it.
thanx,
A fellow brewer.
Kevin
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:06:50 -0400
Subject: Partial Sparging / Gypseous Brain Cramp / How Much = Enough SO4
Billy Cole had a question about his partial-mash sparge technique.
A friend of mine who makes killer partial mash beer uses a similar technique,
but bagged the sparge when he discovered a simpler way. After you remove the
grain bag from the first pot, and drain it, dip and bob the bag int he second
pot to rinse it. Drain the bag well again, then simply combine the waters.
He says the second rinse is very complete amd effective. I posted this a
while back here, and some folks were concerned with getting lots of husk
material and possible other effects, but I haven't tasted any negative
results in the final product.
Jeff Renner diagnoses AlK's brain cramp:
> That looked way off, so I checked Terry Foster's _Pale Ale_. He says that
> 1 gram of gypsum per gallon will give 150 ppm sulphate (and 60 ppm
> calcium). He also ways that 1 tsp weighs 5 grams, so 1 tsp gypsum per
> gallon will give about *750 ppm* sulphate. Looks like a brain cramp, Al.
Let's take another look at the x-ray, doc.
When I wrote BreWater, I included a teaspoon/grams option. I checked my
several references for grams to teaspoons conversions and found many wide
discrepancies. So I got my friend's digital milligram scale and started
weighing. I scooped out several tablespoons' worth of salt, then divided by
the equivalent *teaspoons* to get the answer (big average). I came up with 5
grams per teaspoon, which is what's in BreWater.
Recently I obtained my own balance scale, and feeling that 5 grams seemed a
lot, I reweighed the salts. All my other salts were pretty close but I came
up with something like 2.6 grams per tablespoon of gypsum!
Part of the problem is that gypsum compacts or fluffs more than the other
common brewing salts because it's so powdery. I also found that the weight
ratios between 1/4, 1/2, 1 tsp, and 1 tblsp did not hold up as I weighed the
varying volumes on the same scale!
I strongly advocate weighing your salts, not scooping them! Especially
gypsum. However, I realize that a sensitive scale is not cheap, but finding
one (garage sales? surplus stores? pawn shops?) is a worthwhile adventure
if you're serious about accurate water treatment. Otherwise, just be sure to
scoop but don't pack it -- you'll get better results.
*****
William P Giffin asks:
> Still the answer to the question hasn't been answered. How much SO4 is
> required to "Burtonize" the water? 60 ppm. 150 ppm or 270 ppm. What
> does the magnesium in Burton water have to do with the bittering of the
> beer?
Pale Ales brewed with El Paso tap water (SO4 ~ 150 ppm) does not seem to have
the characteristic pleasant hop "bite" that the 350 ppm's in my Pail Ale
gave. Based on that I'd put a number of about 200 - 250 ppm as a lower limit
to the amount of SO4 to get that "Burton" flair. Just a guess (sorry JS).
Magnesium is unpleasantly bitter in concentrations of around 30 ppm or more.
I guess the speculation was that adding magnesium would supply a bitterness
(however unpleasant) more cheaply than the equivalent (and more expensive)
amount of hops.
*****
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://members.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
From: Paul Ward <paulw@doc.state.vt.us>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 14:22:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Strange yeast question
John M. Posin (jmposing@colint.com) inquires,
"...I put up a batch of Barleywine for this winters enjoyment in
7 ozs. While moving them, I noticed that yeast had clung to one
side of each bottle and that it was always oriented in the same
direction, NE. Can someone explain why?"
John,
Natural phenomenon. The Barleywine is preparing for it's
annual migration to the Northeast. You can be a 'Friend of
Nature' by packaging the bottles snugly and safely and shipping
them here to Vermont. I'll look after them once they arrive.
Remember, Nature is a mother!
Paul
paulw@doc.state.vt.us
- --
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what of humanitarians?
------------------------------
From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE@mid.org>
Date:
Subject: Electrical Safety 101 / Partial Decoction
Orville Deutchman (orion@mdc.net) comments on a heater element
[Incoloy elements (5500W @ 240V)] recommendation:
SNIP>>>
All well and good if you are propared to deal with a whopping 240 volts!
This is not a toy that gets plugged into the 115 volt outlet!
<<<
Actually, KennyEddy discussed this a lot better than I ever could back
when he first built his all-electric plastic brewery.
The element has an AC resistance due to its design and material
properties, independant of voltage (Assuming pure resistance, which is
close enough in this example).
This resistance causes the element to pull a current from the line, 22.9
Amps approximately at 240 V. Current equals Power divided by Voltage
(I = P/V). In this example Resistance equals Voltage divided by current
or 10.5 Ohms. Power also equals Current squared times resistance, in
this case 5500 Watts.
If you connected this element to 120 V, the resistance would not change,
it would still be 10.5 Ohms. Current, V/R would be 120 divided by 10.5,
or 11.4 Amps. This is half of the current in the 240 Volt case as
expected. Hardly a crisis. Power would be reduced however: I
squared times R equals 11.4 *11.4 * 10.5 equals approximately 1375
Watts, or _one-quarter_ of the power in the 240 V case. You won't get
a boil nearly so fast, but there certainly is no danger in using the element
this way. As I recall, Ken had the abilityy to switch between 240 V and
120 V depending on if he was trying to get to boil in a hurry, versus a
more delicate mashing or boiling operation. I hope Ken adds to the
thread.
Orville then says,
>>>
You carefully wire it direct into your panel, and hope for the best. Don't
get stung by this baby!
<<<
To which I say, DON'T EVER, EVER, EVEN THINK OF WIRING
_ANYTHING_ DIRECTLY TO YOUR PANEL! Use a 240 V receptacle
intended for such an application. If I recall the NEC correctly, the circuit
should be good for at least 30 A for a 22.9 A load. So should the fuse or
circuit breaker protecting the circuit.
Basically most home panels are rated for 100 A or more and the first line
of protection is the fuse on the transformer primary which is sized to
allow 150 percent overload or so. What this means, kids, is that
something else will burn first, and that will most likely be your element or
the wires connecting it to your panel. Any anything close enough to get
hot along the melting wire. Not something to mess around with.
Sorry for the long windedness. That's the cool thing about the HBD,
though, sometimes the microbiologists, metallurgists and chemists get to
go off, other times its us EE's.
********
I'd like to thank everyone who replied to my partial decoction question.
Everyone said Don't do it -- without a happy mash full of enzymes to add
the decoction back into, I'd be left with a starchy, cloudy mess. Thanks
again all.
Randy in Modesto
------------------------------
From: Kelly Jones <kejones@ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:46:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Heater Voltage
In HBD 2165, Orville Deutchman wrote (regarding a 240V hot water heater
element):
> All well and good if you are propared to deal with a whopping 240 volts!
> This is not a toy that gets plugged into the 115 volt outlet!
I'm not sure what your concern is... This doesn't put OUT 240V, it's just
a resistor. Obviously, you need to have some know-how in order to be
wiring electrical devices. If you do, then this is no more dangerous than
any of the other electrical appliances in your household. And I'm not
sure what you mean by 'commercial applications', this is probably no
different than the heater in your home water heater!
BTW, this usually IS plugged into a 115V outlet... That way, you get even
lower power density, as it now drops down to something close to 1375W.
Kelly
------------------------------
From: "Mark C. Bellefeuille" <mcb@abrams.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 11:49:30 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Re: Wringing hop/grain bags
> I usually fill my grain bag with my grains and bring it up to 150-160
> for about 45 minutes before adding extract and bringing to a boil. During
> this initial 45 minutes, I bring another gallon of water to around 175 in
> a separate pot. I have a fear of missing out on some sugars when I pull my
> grain bag out of the boiling pot so I pour the 1 gallon of water over the
> grain bag while holding the grain bag in the air. Then I squeeze the heck
> out of the grain bag with my hands (yes, it hurts) to get all I can from
> the grain bag with 4 lbs. of grains in there, there is alot of wort hiding
> in that bag.
Your wait is fine. However; take the specialty grains out of the brewwater
after the 45mins. Don't boil your grains. If you bring them over 170F you
have a good chance of extracting tannins into the wort. Which is the way
to get a real 'beer face' (puckered up because of the astringency).
Mark
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark C. Bellefeuille mcb@abrams.com
BEER! Because Barley makes lousy bread! (602) 7599273
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96 14:15:07 CDT
Subject: HSA/rumours of the demise of my brewery have been greatly exaggerated
Aaron writes:
>When sparging my grain with a rotating sparge arm, I noticed ample
>opportunity for aeration and this brings up two theories I would like you
>to criticize:
>1) aeration poses no danger until the addition of hops
According to what Charlie S. has posted, aeration of the mash is worse
than aeration post-boil.
>2) aeration of sparge water is minimal, as very little air can dissolve
>into 168F water. The danger to wort is that the oxygen is reacting with
>the wort at a rate close to the rate oxygen is dissolving into the wort.
I know that this must be okay because so many commercial brewers have
a similar distribution of sparge water. I believe that the main reason
this is not as terrible as it may seem is because the steam rising from
the grain bed tends to purge out the oxygen in the lauter tun. Personally,
I just run the sparge water through a tube that is positioned below the
level of the water in the tun. I keep 1" or so of water above the grain
bed and run the new sparge water into that 1". If you do use one of
these sprinkling sparge arms, I would put a lid on the tun, covering all
but a small opening. Not only will this keep the steam contained and
minimize oxygen in the tun headspace, but also it will retain heat (which
is probably a lot more important).
***
Pat writes:
>Decibreweries, like Al K, only brew in the winter.
On the contrary... I brew year `round. I've brewed about 15 batches since
Memorial Day. The key is that in the summer, I *must* use filtered air or
oxygen for aeration/oxygenation. If I don't, I get a wild yeast infection.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
From: "Craig Rode" <craig.rode@sdrc.com>
Date: 29 Aug 1996 14:28:01 -0600
Subject: Wyeast American II / Jet Bu
One of the advantages of living in Wisconsin is that the cooler brewing season
arrives early. This Saturday, I'm brewing again. YIPPEE!
I'm a huge fan of Wyeast 1056, which has given me excellent results. However,
my local supplier was out of that particular type, and suggested I try the
Wyeast American II. (Number was 1112 or something like that.) If anyone of
you gurus has experience with these two and can let me know what to expect
with it, I would greatly appreciate it.
I have a King Cooker jet engine, and yes, it uses fuel like mad and makes
noise. The biggest concern I have had is the soot produced at less than full
blast. It forms on my Vollrath stainless 10 gallon pot. Here's what I do:
After the boil, whiIe cooling, I spray the outside with the outflow from my
immersion chiller. It washes off quite well. For the metallurgists of you
out there....will this thermal shock weaken my pot? It sure works well.....
Craig
------------------------------
From: "Rick Creighton" <rcreighton@smtpinet.aspensys.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96 12:46:01 EST
Subject: Smoked Grain Sources!
Chris,
I can uderstand your problem. As an aparment dweller myself, I have often
wondered what my neighbors might think if I tried to make smoked malt.
You could always by a "smokey joe" charcoal cooker (for smoking meat) and use
it
outdoors to smoke your grain. It would be relatively inexpensive (under $100)
and you could use whatever wood you wanted!
Mail-order sources are plentiful, but their selection is not. Most mail-order
suppliers have only one or two types of smoked malt. The standard German Rauch
malt seems to be the most commonly available, and that wonderful Scottish Peat-
Smoked malt is becoming easier to get. Check with the following suppliers:
Supplier Type of malt available
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Williams Brewing (Rauch and Peat malt)
P.O. Box 2195
San Leandro CA 94577
(800) 759-6025
Liberty Malt Supply Company (Rauch and Peat malt)
(800)-990-MALT
Brewer's Resource (Rauch malt)
409 Calle Can Pablo #104
Camarillo, CA 93012
(800) 827-3983
Brew America (Rauch and Peat malt)
2738 Gallows Road
Vienna, VA 22180
(703) 207-0760
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
That should do for now. Also you might check in a recent issue of Zymurgy.
There
are TONS of malt suppliers these days, and that mag is chock full of their
adds.
Most have "800" numbers you can call, and offer free catalogs...
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Richard A. Creighton | e:mail: emerald7@his.com |
| Member, HTML Writer's Guild | WWW: http://www.his.com/~emerald7 |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Ne laeteris inimica mea super me" - Thomas Ravenscroft |
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@li.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:06:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Wyeast American II / Jet Bu
>I'm a huge fan of Wyeast 1056, which has given me excellent results. However,
>my local supplier was out of that particular type, and suggested I try the
>Wyeast American II. (Number was 1112 or something like that.) If anyone of
>you gurus has experience with these two and can let me know what to expect
>with it, I would greatly appreciate it.
Wyeast 1272 has no business being associated with the Magnificent 1056. I
brewed four batches with this demon and three of them were nowhere close
to the 1056 version, in fact I didn't like them. The one time I used it
to my liking was on a Rye beer which was split fermented with each yeast.
The 1272 was better in this instance. YMMV. 1056 for President, Cascades'
for V.P.
Life is good, beer makes it better.
John Varady
Boneyard Brewing Co.
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow"
------------------------------
From: Steve <JOHNSONS@UANSV5.VANDERBILT.EDU>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 15:35:21 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Lager yeasts and starters
I would like some information specific to making starters using lager yeasts.
In particular, will these starters work and perform best if the starter is
prepared so that the yeast culture is introduced to the starter medium in
typical lager temperatures recommended for that particular strain of yeast? Or
is it OK to start them at the same temperature that one pitches an ale yeast?
Is thermal shock an issue if one introduces a lager starter pitched at ale
yeast temps? Any suggestions/recommendations/information would be greatly
appreciated!
Steve Johnson
Vanderbilt University
member of the Music City Brewers
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 96 15:38:00 CDT
Subject: AAAAARGH!/microwaves/weighing gypsum/magnesium
I'm going to have to get more sleep.
I wrote (apparently):
>you need to make sure there is enough
>sulphate in the water and then you may have to adjust the pH down with
>calcium carbonate so the pH is not too low (it depends on your water).
What this should have said was, add the sulfate, mash-in, then measure
the pH and adjust *UP* with calcium carbonate so it is not too low.
As for how much to add, I suggest adding enough gypsum so your SO4
level is 600 to 650 ppm. As I corrected myself earilier today, 1 teaspoon
of gypsum in 1 gallon of water gives about 708 ppm of sulfate. If you
have no sulfate in your water, I recommend that you add 0.85 teaspoons
per gallon of gypsum to your water.
Bill writes:
>What does the magnesium in Burton water have to do with the bittering of the
>beer?
Nothing, to my knowledge.
>I have done both I find very little difference in using an acid rest,
>adding gypsum or lactic acid. How and why do you think it is easier?
If your water has a solid amount of calcium, you can brew pale beer with
no additions of anything, no acid rest (more work, more time). Back
when brewers didn't understand water chemistry, all they knew was that
some wells (and some regions) resulted in good beer and others did not.
Dublin, Munich and London brewers brewed darker beers because pale beers
didn't taste so good. It wasn't until years later that they found out
how to modify their waters so they could brew pale beers.
>Lets go in another tack. Must I adjust my very soft water in order to
>brew Munich style beers? Why? I have brewed some very lovely bocks and
>dunkels and helles with no adjustment at all. Should you adjust soft
>water for these beers?
Munich water is characterised primarily by the 150 ppm of carbonate it has.
It's also got about 75 ppm of calcium. Munich Dunkels are not nearly as
dark and the grains not nearly as acidic as, say, a stout. I would say
that you should be able to brew decent Munich Dunkels with soft water.
The acidity should not be noticeable as opposed to stout brewed with soft
water.
London water also has 150 ppm of carbonate, but it also has quite
a bit of sodium and sulfate too. Soft water is a blessing. It gives the
most flexibility to the brewer. If you don't want to muck with acid
rests, you can add salts or acids.
***
Tom writes:
>Does anybody know anything about sterilizing bottles, hops, hopbags,
>brewing parts etc. in the microwave? Would this be an effective way to
>kill "nasties" that can cause infection in the brewing process?
The microwaves themselves won't kill the nasties (they are too small).
You can, however, sanitize (not "sterilize!") the inside of a pyrex
flask (for example) by boiling a few ounces of water in it. The steam
would be doing the sanitation not the waves.
***
Ken writes:
>I strongly advocate weighing your salts, not scooping them! Especially
>gypsum. However, I realize that a sensitive scale is not cheap, but finding
>one (garage sales? surplus stores? pawn shops?) is a worthwhile adventure
>if you're serious about accurate water treatment.
I agree with Ken 100%. I do use a gram scale and recommend that all small
additions (salts, Irish Moss...) be weighed... teaspoons are much more
common than gram scales, however. Two additional sources for gram scales
are American Science and Surplus (312-763-0313 or www.sciplus.com)
and head shops (drug paraphernalia stores). Even at AmSci&Surplus they are
not cheap. Mine is plastic and was around $15.00.
>Magnesium is unpleasantly bitter in concentrations of around 30 ppm or more.
I don't think so. Both Burton-on-Trent and Vienna water have more than
60 ppm of Magnesium.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
From: Carrick Legrismith <hiscope@c4systm.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 16:34:33 -0400
Subject: Element size
Kelly, et al....
All well and good if you are propared to deal with a whopping 240 volts!
This is not a toy that gets plugged into the 115 volt outlet!
OD
I think that if it is a low watt density element and you are planning to
run it off 110 volts your choice is fine. A little pricey, but fine.
Carrick
Poison Ivy Brewery
hiscope@c4systm.com
------------------------------
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc@shore.net>
Date: Thu, 29 Aug 1996 17:07:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: BOIL OVERS
like the rest, i too skim, as soon as the kettle is full.
but two other items come to mind on boilovers:
proper head space
and proper heating source btu
most of the home brewers i know use WAY too much horse power to boil
the relative small volumes even in 10 gallon batches. this leave very
little head space for the typical burners used.
some calculations i use are anywhere from 30K to 40K btu per US barrel.
this is for uninsulated single wall kettles. you only need to boil off
5 to 10 percent of the volume, for ours we have 120K btu for 4bbl and get
5 to 7 percent boil off in 90 min, with some power venting.
some home brewers are using 60kbtu and more for 1/2bbl brew kettles.
yeah - yeah it cuts the wait time down - i know.....been there done that,
did not like it much...
good brewing
joe
------------------------------
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 29 Aug 96 17:21:52 EDT
Subject: Laxative, HSA,
Brewsters:
In my exposition on metal ions tasting bitter or not, I forgot to answer AlK's
question about the laxative properties of beer. As far as I know, Tums (
calcium carbonate) are good for the tummy, but don't affect any other portion
of
the digestive track. One of the uses for epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) other
than a mineral bath is as a laxative. You may have heard the expression "going
through like a dose of salts" That's the origin. I leave you with the thought
that milk of magnesia ( magnesium hydroxide) is used as an antacid and a
laxative. So magnesium is probably the culprit that gives beers mineralized
with
too much epsom salts their laxative qualities.
As to why they would use magnesium as well as calcium? That would better
emulate the Burton waters and you know if a little is good, well, why not add a
little more..... Magnesium should be similar to calcium in many ways, but maybe
it has other properties that calcium doesn't. I don't know
- -------------------------------------------------------------
As to Aaron Herrick's proposition that hops in beer are what causes it to get
an
oxidized, stale flavor from HSA. Not a bad idea, should we leave the hops out?
Until after the boil? Just kidding. Seriously, this is not a bad idea and kind
of goes along with the staling taste being a little like using old hops. Plenty
of unsaturated bonds to get oxidized and isomerized. Both tastes, I believe,
have been described as cardboardy, although I can't say I have ever tasted
this.
My beer doesn't get stale and I use fresh hops Maybe a separate boil of hops in
a closed pan then cooled vs hot added with some oxidation in the air after the
split wort is cooled could help elucidate your answer. It is an interesting
topic which I think we don't pay enough attention to. Do you think Charlie
Scandrett's steam wind theory is all hot air?
Don't you mean"Brewing is a sport, *use* a cup"?
- -------------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 29 Aug 96 17:22:02 EDT
Subject: Pumpkin,Newbie,
DI a!? ayyyyyRyyyyyyyyyyNDrice hulls in your sparger. Maybe if you just cooked
(or microwaved, like I do acorn squash) the pumpkin with the peels on it and
didn't puree it, you might not have the problem, I don't know.
I once had a girlfriend (Bonnie....what was her name?) for whom I bought a
pumpkin to make a jack-o-lantern from. She turned it into a pumpkin pie!
Clever girl. But not clever enough.
- --------------------------------------------------
Newbie brewbie asks for advice on his secondary. Your idea sounds OK. See my
earlier (or later) comments. Welcome aboard!
- --------------------------------------------------
I was cruising through Zymurgy, Summer 1996, Vol 19 Number 2. I noticed on page
83 in the "Dear Professor" column that the professor said that Sorghum is the
same as Millet. Boo! Send the prof back to grain school. Millet is Panicum
miliaceum and Sorghum is Sorghum vulgare. I think I read this same identity
comment in someone's book (maybe Pap?) but it is not true.
I believe I read that in Africa beer is made from sorghum ( I think down south)
and also millet (central and some north, non-Muslim countries). Anyone confirm
or deny?
- --------------------------------------------------
AlK asks about the calcium reaction with phosphate. The answer is it is pH
dependent which forms of phosphate are available. But I suspect calcium
phosphate ( Ca3(PO4)2) is formed eventually since the reaction is driven by its
insolubility and as it forms, it releases hydrogen ions from the phosphoric
acid, the H2PO4 and HPO4 ions into the solution. I suspect I was thinking about
the source of phosphoric acids as being the various phosphorous containing
compounds in the malt and their need to be hydrolyzed to give phosphoric acid.
I also think I speculated to myself that the Ca++ might speed up this process -
but I have no evidence of this.
I obviously didn't have my chemical brain in full forward the other day when I
said the "Calcium releases phosphoric acid" I should have said "calcium
releases *protons from the* phosphoric acids". Sorry about that.
- --------------------------------------------------
On the subject of calcium, it does more than just change the pH, it stabilizes
the Alpha Amylase so it will stick around longer and continue to chew up the
starch and some of the dextrins. Calcium also aids in the flocculation and
sedimentation of yeast.
- --------------------------------------------------
Keep on Brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2166
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