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HOMEBREW Digest #2160
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/08/26 PDT
Homebrew Digest Monday, 26 August 1996 Number 2160
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Bleach residues (Kevin Kane)
First All Grain (David Root)
Irish Moss (Aaron Sepanski)
Bleach for sanitizing (Aaron Sepanski)
The mother of all root beer inquiries... ("Greg Brooks")
RE: The German Reinheitsgebot. ((J. Matthew Saunders))
bleach heresy? (dflagg@agate.net)
U.S. Wholesale (Phil Brushaber)
Call for Judges/Winfield BIAB Competition ((Stephen T. McKenna))
IOB (Andy Walsh)
False Bottoms (Kirk R Fleming)
RE: A presumed thread revival and thermometer question (AJN)
RE: discarding trub ((Ed Westemeier))
Bleach ((Mark Andrizzi))
Hops Harvest Problems ((Curt Schroeder))
Bleach ((David C. Harsh))
re: dry hopping & new bubbles ((SPEAKER.CURTIS))
Mazer Cup question (Suzette Smith)
Brewing water ((William P Giffin))
bleach, etc. (M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac))
Re: HBD Archives ((Shawn Steele))
RO water and off flavors (Kurt Schilling)
Re: Discarding Trub (lheavner@tcmail.frco.com)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Kevin Kane <kkane@uidaho.edu>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 17:27:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bleach residues
Robert Ray asked about problems with his brew in regards to bleach. Sure,
iodophor is good stuff (especially for SS kegs), but bleach leaves
virtually no residue. Bleach is a solution of sodium hypochlorite, made
by the reaction of chlorine gas and sodium hydroxide. What remains after
a sterilization with bleach are sodium chloride and sodium hydroxide.
Using the amounts prescribed by a number of homebrew texts, these
compounds are going to be in such low concentration that they won't affect
flavor or wort pH, even if you don't rinse. I've NEVER had spoiled beer
from using bleach.
Robert, I'd check elsewhere in your brewing steps. If you're using a
starter, make sure that everything in contact with it is sterile, and
that your starter is viable before you pitch. Also, check to see that you
don't present an opportunity for bacteria to get to your wort before the
yeast do.
Kevin M. Kane, Ph.D.
Department of Chemistry
University of Idaho, Moscow ID
------------------------------
From: David Root <droot@cris.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 21:41:21 -0400
Subject: First All Grain
OK, I tried liquid yeast, and my beer was better. I did my first all
grain beer about 4 weeks ago. I can't believe how good the beer is!
I am now converted, and convinced that all grain is the only way to go.
Thank all of you for the information. My beer has been improving
since I started reading the digest. Thanks Again
David Root Lockport NY droot@concentric.net
------------------------------
From: Aaron Sepanski <sepanska@it.uwp.edu>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:09:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Irish Moss
I noticed Ken's post on irish moss, and I felt compelled to reply in
defense of IM. I use it in all my beers. Never have I had a problem.
Nor have I ever observed anything close to what you gentleman have
described. There was a time when I didn't use it, and my beers were
hazy. Since I started using irish moss, I've noticed a great difference
(night and day). I not sure that what the othe person that responded to
Ken's post said was right. I don't know if it is correct to add irish
moss half way through your boil, or after a rolling boil is established.
I've been told to add it 15 minutes before the end of the boil, and have
been doing so with excellent results. If your boil is an hour say, the
moss is in there an extra 15 mins. and maybe longer. Whether or not this
makes a difference, I have no idea. But hey its worth a try right? The
only way to improve the quality of any of your beers is to experiment.
Thanks for taking the time to read my post,
Aaron Sepanski
P.S. I also noticed that you said it takes you 15 mins. to get your beer
to stop trying to boil over. I do it in about a minute. Let it rise up
so you know that you have completely established a boil, then before it
boils over, pull your kettle off the heat and let it sink back down. You
may need to do it twice, possibly three times, but it works. Hope this
helps, because boil overs suck (extremely difficult to clean). Thanks guys.
------------------------------
From: Aaron Sepanski <sepanska@it.uwp.edu>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 22:19:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Bleach for sanitizing
To respond to Robert's post.... I use bleach to sanitize as well. I
have been forever. I have never had a problem at all. I know that
bleach can leave a film, you only have to pour a little on your hand to
find that out. Because of this, I make sure that rinse my carboy
completely! I rinse it out until I can't smell the bleach anymore, and
then rinse 2 more times after that. Furthermore, when I rinse, I never
come close to filling my carboy with the rinse water. I simply fill it
about a quarter full and vigorously shake the water around in the
carboy. It would seem to me that it might be difficult to agitate 5 and
6.5 gallons of water. Isn't it heavy? or do you not agitate at all? At
any rate please don't feel as though what I'm saying is that you are in
correct. I'm sure your method is just as good a clearing the bleach. I
am merely suggesting a different method that might make life easier for
you. Good luck on your next batch all.
Thanks for taking the time to read my post,
Aaron Sepanski
------------------------------
From: "Greg Brooks" <gbrooks@cris.com>
Date: Sat, 24 Aug 1996 23:04:21 -0500
Subject: The mother of all root beer inquiries...
Greetings all!
As somene interested in the homebrewing of root beer (particularly from
all-natural ingredients or, at least, using those ingredients to greatly
enhance the available extracts), I come to the homebrew list with a humble
proposition:
If you will either post to the list or to me privately any/all experiences,
recipes, history or whatever that you have on the subject of home-made root
beer, sarsaparilla, birch beer or whatnot, I will do my best to combine it
with info I've already collected and produce a FAQ or proto-FAQ for
everyone's review. I know this isn't the primary purpose of the list, but
enough people in the homebrewing world seem to have an interest in this
that I figured it'd be a good place to start digging.
Any takers? :)
Regards,
Greg Brooks (gbrooks@concentric.net)
------------------------------
From: saunderm@vt.edu (J. Matthew Saunders)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 00:04:11 -0400
Subject: RE: The German Reinheitsgebot.
Geoff writes:
>Apart from commercial brewing, where they are run by accountants, why
>put so much junk in your beer?
I think the answer to that is fairly clear...its often yummy.
Cheers!
Matthew.
http://dogstar.bevd.blacksburg.va.us
http://fbox.vt.edu:10021/S/saunderm/index.html/page_1.html
------------------------------
From: dflagg@agate.net
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 09:46:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: bleach heresy?
Ray Robert asks:
> Does bleach promote growth of bacteria in beer?
I doubt it seriously!!
What is happening to you maybe what happened to me a while back.
I would pitch a good chunk of temperature normalized yeast
slurry, and then....nothing. Or in come cases, a very anemic
fermentation slow to start. Problem drove me up the wall.
I was fermenting in 6 gallon carboys, and would keep a bleach
solution in them between uses to keep the bugs down. Then,
when I was ready to use them, I would rinse them out with
cold water, using three or four rinses.
Well, after some expert help from this forum, I finally found
what my problem was: Bleach does not mix very well with cold water.
It will leave a film on the glass. I switched to rinsing with -hot-
water and my problem went away.
Prove it to yourself with this simple experiment. Dip your fingers
in some bleach. Feel how they are slippery. Now, rinse your fingers
with -cold- water. They will still be a little slippery. Rinse again
with -hot- water and notice the slippery surface goes away.
So the rules are: If you are soaking with bleach, use -cold- water.
The germ killing power will last longer. However, if you are
rinsing, use HOT water.
************************************************************
Doug Flagg | "A Homebrew a day...
dflagg@orono.sdi.agate.net | Keeps the Worries away!"
************************************************************
------------------------------
From: Phil Brushaber <pbrush@metronet.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 09:10:27 -0500
Subject: U.S. Wholesale
Does anyone know what happened to U.S. WHolesale Homebrew Supply. Called
their number and it seems as if they may have gone out of business (I
hope not). They used to sell hops for $4-$6 a POUND! USWHS used to
advertise in Zymurgy.
Anyone know if they're still around? Number changed? (Hope, hope)
Phil Brushaber
Dallas, TX.
------------------------------
From: stmckenna@amoco.com (Stephen T. McKenna)
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 18:40:32 -0500
Subject: Call for Judges/Winfield BIAB Competition
Call for Judges, Stewards, and Apprentices
2nd Annual Winfield BIAB Homebrew Competition
An AHA-sanctioned competition
presented by Beer in a Box, Inc., and the Urban Knaves of Grain
Saturday September 7, 1995, 9:30am
Entries: Judging:
Beer in a Box John's Buffet
27W460 Beecher Ave. 27W482 Jewell Rd.
Winfield, IL 60103 Winfield, IL 60103
We need your help! We are seeking volunteers to judge and steward. All BJCP
and apprentice judges are welcome. Apprentices will be paired with BJCP
judges. We will provide refreshments and lunch for all judges and stewards.
To volunteer, please contact Steve McKenna (stmckenna@amoco.com,
630-961-7846).
The competition is accepting entries in all AHA style categories. Merchandise
prizes and ribbons will be awarded for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place in each
category judged; and for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd best of show. The entry fee is $5
per entry (if entering 1 to 3 beers) or $4 per entry (if entering 4 or more
beers). Checks should be made payable to Beer in a Box. Two 10-14
oz. unmarked bottles are required per entry. Entries should be shipped or
delivered between August 26 and September 4 to Beer in a Box. Judges and
stewards may bring their entries on the day of the competition, but please
mail entry forms in advance.
For entry forms and style guidelines, contact Beer in a Box at 800-506-BREW,
630-690-8150, fax 630-690-8173, or E-mail beerinab@mcs.com, and leave your
address or fax number. Or check out our Web page at
http://www.mcs.net/~beerinab/hbcomp.html.
------------------------------
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh@crl.com.au>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:35:09 +1100
Subject: IOB
Whatever happened to the HBD police? Must be on holidays. I'll
have to do the job myself!
I said:
>The IOB are an international organisation (not just British), with
>sections worldwide. There is a North American section, Asia/Pacific
>section etc.
You thundering moron!!! Don't you know anything?! There is no
North American section of the IOB! There are the following
sections: Asia/Pacific, central and Southern Africa, numerous
British, and "international" (based in Brussels), but no North
American one. The Master Brewers Association of the Americas
(MBAA) takes the role of the IOB in North America.
The Journal of the Institute of Brewing should be renamed,
"Everything you always wanted to know about sorghum but were afraid
to ask". Every single issue recently seems to have an article on
sorghum. It appears to be a *very* popular adjunct in Africa.
- --
Andrew Walsh CHAD Research Laboratories
Phone (61 2) 212 6333 5/57 Foveaux Street
Fax (61 2) 212 1336 Surry Hills. NSW. 2010
email awalsh@crl.com.au Australia.
------------------------------
From: Kirk R Fleming <flemingk@usa.net>
Date: Sun, 25 Aug 1996 19:42:07 +0100
Subject: False Bottoms
In #2157 XKCHRISTIAN@ccvax.fullerton.edu asked:
> 1. In using a recirculating type system (RIMS), is an Easy Masher setup able
> to produce good results? Is a copper tube around the bottom (with hack
> saw slits) better? Or is a false bottom the only real choice?
Since I'm going to provide a viewpoint of design issues, I need to answer the
questions above explicitly, so there is no implicity answer assumed. I've not
used an Easy Masher for RIMS, or a copper tubing manifold so I don't know how
well they work in the RIMS environment. OTOH, I doubt a false bottom is the
"only real choice". Schmidling has claimed it's a total waste of time, and he
has a point. Read on.
> 2. I am thinking that a false bottom is going to be the best route to go.
> What is the optimal size of the false bottom (9, 10, 12 inch) and what is the
> optimal spacing/size of the wholes? the false bottom will be made of SS.
"Optimum" size depends on all your basic engineering factors. If you're
building
it yourself from stainless, then the optimum from a cost/time perspective is
infinitely small. If you only care about flow rate thru the plate, then optimum
is infinitely large (if you're using a real pot having finite diameter, then
optimum would be pot diameter).
> 3. If I choose to go with a false bottom for both the boiler and the mash
> tun, is scorching a problem when doughing in and boiling?
Since doughing-in is done at around 100F or so, scorching should be a
non-issue.
During boiling, the wort is pretty much free to move around on its own, so I
don't see how a false bottom would do too much to influence scorching. I never
had a problem with scorching in the kettle with a false bottom. Unless money
is no object and you just insist on using whole leaf or plug hops, I don't see
any advantage to a false bottom for the kettle--use pellets instead, or use a
hop bag.
In #2158 GuyG4@aol.com offers some advice on this issue:
> The false bottom is probably hydraulically the least efficient, as it
> doesn't take advantage of pressure relationships in overlying and
> surrounding saturated grain to move wort, but rather is another point source
> sink, which may draw preferentially from the grain-vessel boundary.
I have no idea what is meant here by efficient, but I can see no way that a
false bottom drains a at a point, nor why it there would be any preferential
flow at it's periphery. The comment here regarding pressure relationships
is also kinda baffling--even during recirculation, I'd model the situation
as more-or-less hydrostatic/quasi-static. Given the false bottom is reasonably
far away from the real vessel bottom, and that the drain is in that real
bottom, flow across the entire false bottom should be uniform and constant.
> A manifold tube stuck into the middle as a drain is probably hydraulically
> most efficient, because it draws from each slot, rather than just the point
> of attachment. A circular manifold is much worse, because it induces flow
> along the grain-vessel boundary, and not through the middle of the grain.
Again, I don't get it. I think the first statement implies that an Easy Masher
experiences flow only into that portion of the screen very near the drain pipe,
and very little wort flows into the screen near the rolled-up end. But, it also
implies (to me) that flow thru a false bottom only occurs at some localized
area.
It's intuitive that as the distance between the false bottom and the real
bottom
goes to infinity, the flow across the false bottom becomes uniform. As that
distance approaches zero, the flow across the false bottom goes to zero except
in the region where the false bottom is directly above the drain.
The final comment regarding a circular manifold inducing flow at the periphery
of
the vessel makes sense--if the manifold is at that periphery. What if the
radius
r of the manifold is 2/3 the radius R of the vessel (or some other number)?
> Of course, false bottoms are easier to stir over than manifolds. By far.
This statement is pretty significant--one of Schmidling's comments regarding
the
coolness of the Easy Masher is that stirring is possible without making a mess
of the wort. All design issues need to be bounced against stirred vs static
mashing. Some brewers think stirring is a Bad Thing, some think it's a Good
Thing.
GuyG4 responds to question 2. regarding false bottom size with:
> Optimal diameter is a matter of opinion. I personally would minimize
> foundation water and maximize flow through grain (rather than flow along
> grain vessel boundary) by minimizing the area of the false bottom.
Got another problem here, too. Clearly the smaller the false bottom the less
the
flow thru the grain. As the false bottom diameter approaches zero, mustn't the
flow approach zero? Imagine there is no 'real' vessel bottom to effect flow. If
the false bottom is exactly the diameter of the mash vessel, and the sides of
that
vessel are perpendicular to the false bottom won't all mash flow be
perpendicular
to the plate? And won't the flow at the center of the mash tun be identical to
that at the periphery?
Now imagine another design, a conical-bottom mash tun with the false bottom
near
the bottom of that cone (minimize the false bottom size). Now, flow at the edge
of the tank is parallel to the conical tank wall, convergent at the false
bottom.
Flow will by greatest at the center of the grain bed, and minimal at the edges,
but will certainly not be uniform.
> Optimal spacing of the holes is about 50% mean grain diameter, which is
> about 3/32 I think. Someone else I believe knows better what grain size
> curves are like for optimally crushed barley.
I've used both 3/32" and 5/64". Both work wonderfully. Back to false bottom
size though: if you're using a Sankey keg for the mash tun, then a large false
bottom (about 14.5" diameter) provides a very nice balance between a large flow
area (and uniform flow) with an acceptably large volume under the false bottom
to prevent scorching (about 3 quarts).
Alternatively, an EM is probably going to be far less expensive that a false
bottom, and is conducive to mash stirring (which, in my experience will improve
yield a lot).
Finally, the issue of clear wort may come up. Use of a false bottom, no
stirring,
and moderate recirculation will produce crystal clear wort into the kettle. Why
this is important escapes me, although it is very satisfying. I've not seen any
difference in finished product clarity either way, although I might miss chill
haze others would notice since I drink cool ale, not cold.
KRF Colorado Springs
------------------------------
From: AJN <neitzkea@frc.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 06:51:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: A presumed thread revival and thermometer question
From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461@ecy.wa.gov>
<<
Speaking of thermometers, a question:
I use a 1" dial-type probe thermometer stuck through a coffee can lid
floating on my mash to measure the temp while mashing. My last batch I
noted a discrepancy between the reading on the dial and reading on my
outside thermometer, so I bought a new dial type and compared temps.
Yes,
my old one reads 10 degrees hot, so my beer has some distinctive
character
notes. The question is, what type of thermometer is favored for mashing,
and what sort of calibration procedures do experienced homebrewers follow
to
ensure their thermometers read consistently batch to batch?
>>
I looked at my dial-type thermometer and it says right on the face that
the probe must be at least 2 inches into the liquid to get a accurate
reading, however I wonder it the reading is inaccurate if inserted all
the way?
I guess I'll have to try it, and see!
_________________________________________________________________________
Arnold J. Neitzke Internet Mail: neitzkea@frc.com
Product Development Engineer Voice: (810)377-7128
FANUC Robotics North America, Inc. FAX: (810)377-7363
------------------------------
From: ed.westemeier@sdrc.com (Ed Westemeier)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:22:29 -0400
Subject: RE: discarding trub
On Friday, Tom Castle agonized:
> I routinely discard my spent grain after sparging into my compost
> pile (I haven't gotten that bread thing down yet). On my last batch
> in late Spring (yes, I'm one of those who doesn't brew in the
> summer), I added the trub from the primary fermentation into the
> compost pile as well - which I usually don't do as I reuse it or
> flush down the drain. ANYWAYS....
> I think it killed my compost pile. I've worked most of the summer
> trying to revive the vile smelling pile of rot.
I suspect the problem is not so much the yeast as the hops.
Spent hops (trub from the kettle) are used as a defoliant in some places,
since they have a good record of killing any other vegetation they're
applied to. Sort of a natural herbicide.
I'd recommend sticking only to spent grain. Compost piles love it.
Ed
======================================================
Ed Westemeier E-mail: hopfen@iac.net
In wine, there is truth.
In beer, there is strength.
In water, there is bacteria.
======================================================
------------------------------
From: FelixTKatt@gnn.com (Mark Andrizzi)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:55:21
Subject: Bleach
This is in response to the post from Ray Robert as to using bleach
for disinfection and the potential to killing yeast; I have been
brewing for many years and always use bleach to disinfect
everything that I use in the brewing and bottling process and have
never had a problem with my yeast OR contamination. If you use a
SMALL amount of bleach and rinse well, you should have no problems.
It does not take a large amount of bleach to disinfect. If you do
use too much bleach or fail to rinse, then you have have a problem
with killing the yeast, in addition to killing yourself with the
ingestion of bleach. Use sparingly and rinse.
Brew well and Brew often.
------------------------------
From: cschroed@ball.com (Curt Schroeder)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 08:22:40 -0600
Subject: Hops Harvest Problems
Last night I went out to start harvesting my Centennial hops. I noticed a
half a dozen wasps and bees buzzing around. A few stings wasn't gonna stop
this brewer. I climbed the ladder and was shocked to see the top 3 feet of
the vine was really sticky and covered with little white things. These
things are about 0.1 inches long and 0.01 inches in diameter. Close
examination showed that they were not moving, however there were a large
number of aphids on the leaves as well. The wasps where eating the aphids.
Good job wasps! (no affiliation just like the job their doing). When I
picked them I put the ones that were wooly with the white things in a
separate sack. I was thinking about dumping them in water to clean them but
I think the stickiness will keep the white stuff on. Right now I have them
in my drying room. They smell great much stronger that the non sticky
cones. What are these white things? Are these cones ruined? Is there
something I can do to save them? BTW I live in Colorado where the weather
is very dry so I doubt its any kind of mold.
Cheers,
Curt Schroeder, cschroed@ball.com (private email's fine)
Longmont, Colorado
------------------------------
From: dharsh@alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 10:59:59 -0400
Subject: Bleach
Lots of recent talk about bleach and sanitation:
1. The vast majority of bleaches are NOT sodium hydroxide, they are sodium
hypochlorite, i.e. chlorine bleach. Chlorine bleach is fine as a
sanitizer, but be sure to rinse, rinse, and then rinse, again! BTW, this
is what I use leftover Budmilloors that people bring to my house and don't
consume - rinsing carboys! After all, a beer with no flavor certainly
isn't going to contribute an off flavor! Personally, I favor iodophor for
sanitation, but that's not the point.
2. BIG WARNING ON CLOROX! Clorox has switched formulation and is no
longer chlorine bleach, it is now using lye. Sodium hydroxide is not
recommended as a sanitizing agent. Also, the high pH (strong alkalinity)
may cause deposits of mineral complexes in your carboys that are not
soluble at pHs above around 2.5. These deposits shouldn't affect flavors,
but might provide spaces for contaminates to hang out and cause problems.
This is a good reasons to stick to low budget el-cheapo bleaches.
3. As far as the shop owner that claimed bleach was bad because in killed
*all* the bacteria.... Just to make it clear: bacteria in beer bad, yeast
in beer good. (lambic exclusion rule noted)
4. When the entire discussion started, Ray Roberts said he had always used
bleach and had only recently started getting infections. Got any old
plastic parts, Ray? A new racking cane might solve the problem - likewise
for any other old plastic parts.
Dave
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
& Dave Harsh &
& DNRC Minister of Bloatarianism O- &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
------------------------------
From: CSS2@oas.psu.edu (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:18 EDT
Subject: re: dry hopping & new bubbles
David Luegs <leud@calvin.edu> asks about drying hopping changing the rate of
bubbles through his airlock:
I have seen this phenomeneon before too. The most likely explaination is that
you have a solution (beer/wort) that is saturated with CO2. By adding the
hops to it, you provide a nucleation site (something physical for the bubbles
to form on), so now some of the CO2 can and does come out of solution.
The last pale ale that I dry hopped did this - but the higher rate of bubbling
continued for almost a week!
Be sure to use some type of strainer when you siphon your dry hopped beer into
the bottling bucket or keg to keep the bits of hop out. I (stupidly)
neglected to do this on my last batch, and my pale ale has hop floaters :-O
A muslin hop bag slipped over the end of the racking cane works very well; it
just looks funny...
Cheers!
Curt
Brewmaster and CEO, Curts Boalsburg Brewery
------------------------------
From: Suzette Smith <SSMITH1@drew.edu>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:05:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mazer Cup question
Date: 26-Aug-1996 01:03pm EST
From: Smith, Suzette
SSMITH1
Dept: FAC/STAFF
Tel No: (201)-408-3208
TO: Remote Addressee ( _in%HOMEBREW@AOB.ORG )
Subject: Mazer Cup question
I know this is more suited to the Mead list, but I can't seem to access
it. Has anyone received their mazers from this year's Mazer Cup? I can't
seem to find the email address of the organizers. If anyone can point me
in the right direction I'd be grateful.
Cheers!
Suzette
Madison, NJ
------------------------------
From: bill-giffin@juno.com (William P Giffin)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:03:02 cst
Subject: Brewing water
Good afternoon all,
Why is it important to try to duplicate the water of the type of beer you
are brewing, for example Burton water which has 1,200 ppm of total
dissolved solids in its water.
I read that Calcium is required in the brewing process yet the water of
Pilsen has very little calcium and my water is very similar to Pilsen
water and I have brewed many different styles of beer, that were to style
or very close to style. All my batches have been all grain and I have had
no difficulty in any way brewing many different styles.
Lets go back to Burton water if the water is unadjusted how much of the
solids precipitate out of the wort during the boil? How much sulfate is
required to give the hop character of a Burton pale ale?
I have brewed bitter where I adjusted the water to Burton, added a small
amount of gypsum to the mash for pH adjustment and adjusted the pH using
lactic acid. All the beer tasted about the same. It would be hard to
pick out which beer had the most sulfate. Do we have to adjust our
brewing water to achieve the style we want or can we do a good job of
brewing by just getting the pH of the mash and the sparge water in the
appropriate range?
Bill
------------------------------
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 12:06 -0600
Subject: bleach, etc.
collective homebrew conscience:
geoff bagley wrote:
>in the year AD 1516 that "no ingredients other than barley, hops and
>water shall be used" (My loose translation.)
>He didn't mention the use of yeast, wheat, or finings, but neither did
>he mention spices, fruit, sugar, maple syrup, or industrial enzymes.
actually, the rheinheitsgebot stipulated malz (malt), hopfen (hops), and
wasser (water). it did not specify barley as the only type of malt that was
allowable. therefore, wheat malt would not violate the decree.
the role of yeast was not understood in those days, so it was omitted from
the list.
>Apart from commercial brewing, where they are run by accountants, why
>put so much junk in your beer?
i'm as hardcore a bavarian brewer as they come with respect to the
rheinheitsgebot for traditional german styles, but i think the world would
be a less pleasant place without the variety that spices, fruits, sugars,
and etc. contribute to the world of beermaking.
>Whitman Lane Associates is a full service consulting and design firm
><huge snip>
how does this help our homebrew?
mark tumarkin wrote, regarding cooling his fermenter with ice:
>the plastic box along with the fermenter. I rotate them with the 2 in the
>freezer, changing them in the morning before I go to work and again in the
>evening when I get home.
i kept an octoberfest cool using an ice water bath one time in atlanta, but
my problem was that the airlock water would get sucked into the fermenter
as the headspace cooled. so, watch out for that, if the fermentation is
at a slow rate, during secondary (like it was with mine).
keith royster wrote:
>I'm not sure if this "plug" of break-material floating in your
>carboy really is interfering with your fermentation, but stirring in
i've had this plug in some of my beers also, usually the ones where i let
a little more trub than usual into the primary. it starts out at the bottom
of the fermenter, but then as the yeast get going, it floats toward the top
and eventually, if i've left minimal headspace, it gets ejected in the
blowoff. i've noticed that there's a lot of yeast activity within (and
in the beer, above) this plug of trub, and i guess it's because there's a
good bit of yeast inside. by the time it's ejected, though, i'm sure the
beer is well populated with yeast. otherwise there wouldn't be so much
activity. this happens with lagers as well as ales.
scott jones wrote, regarding bleach and hb supply clerks:
>With all due respect to your hb supply guy, it sounds like he was just
>trying to make a sale. After all, a thorough rinsing (I usually
>triple-rinse with hot water) should do away with any harmful residue.
i've used bleach for a while now, and haven't had any big problems. i rinse
pretty well with hot tap water, and nothing bad has gotten me yet. for
stainless kegs, i use iodophor, but that's the only thing i use iodophor on.
there was a question about lagering at higher temperatures. all the benefits
of lagering can't be achieved at higher temps (certainly higher than 50F),
and it's basically because the yeast activity is very different depending on
temperature. a lagering at cold temps (mid to high 30's F) causes the yeast
to reingest certain compounds in the beer (sorry, no beer books on hand),
and this reingestion helps to smooth out the flavor of the beer. there are
other bio/chemical changes that take place in the beer, i think, but i've
no reference with me at the moment (cue, lager experts). so, temperature is
really pretty key if you want to do a true lagering.
now, is it possible to "lager" in the bottle, as soon as fermentation is
over and the beer is packaged and a short (warm) period for bottle carbonation
is given? i've done this, but i've no idea if the beer benefitted from it.
i should have done an a-b comparison. i would imagine it probably does help
a little, but there are some geometric/surface area issues that may come
into play. i may go look all this stuff up and repost later.
until then,
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
From: shawn@aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:07:50 -0600
Subject: Re: HBD Archives
>>Quoting Shawn HBD number 2158 - 16/27. :
>>I have collected a list of the subject
>>lines of the homebrew-digest archives available from
>>homebrew-digest-request@aob.org (Jan 1, 1996 through now).
> I tried the above, and I got a message from majordomo saying that the
> command "contents" wasn't recognized.
Oops, my mistake to get the contents, send e-mail to
homebrew-digest-request@aob.org and say:
get contents
end
(I forgot the "get" part last time.)
- - shawn
Digest Janitor
------------------------------
From: Kurt Schilling <kurt@pop.iquest.net>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 12:14 EST
Subject: RO water and off flavors
Howdy fellow brewers:
I have a question that was asked of me at a brewclub meeting over the
weekend. I frequently get asked to give opinions on the taste of homebrews
(one of the hazards of owning a brew shop). Residing in central Indiana
where the water is both quite hard and alkaline, many people are using RO
water for their brewing. Their beers end up with an off flavor that seems to
me to be phenolic (band aid-y). This flavor even shows up in brews that have
been fermented below 70F. Yesterday, in sampling a steam beer that had been
made using RO water, we thought that we detected a metalic taste (zinc?).
So, here is my question: Can unadjusted RO water (no ions added, ie
Burtonized) leech metalic ions out of stainless steel and brass fitings?
As to the phenolic off flavors, wild yeast, high temps, and excess chlorox
are teh likely culprits. It is quite possible that the local water
departments are using chlorimines as a chlorine source. That being the cse
boiling the tap water just gives you water that still has a high chlorine
content.
I noted in one of Dave Burley's postings in HBD 2159, that iodophor can also
contribute off flavors if missused. What about products like One Step?
I'll be glad to summarize responses if any comein via private e-mail(which
is fine).
Thanks, mes amis!!
Kurt Schilling
e-mail kurt@iquest.net
------------------------------
From: lheavner@tcmail.frco.com
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 12:44:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Discarding Trub
Tom Castle asks about his smelly compost. Smelly compost usually
means anaerobic conditions. Trub, being a condensed almost gelatinous
mess can easily go anaerobic. Best bet is mix it up (aerate) with the
rest of your pile. If your compost is active, I don't think a little
trub could kill it. I usually compost my trub, never had a problem.
Lou Heavner
<lheavner@frmail.frco.com>
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2160
****************************
