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HOMEBREW Digest #2145
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/08/13 PDT
Homebrew Digest Tuesday, 13 August 1996 Number 2145
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Sulphites - who needs 'em? (Andy Walsh)
guinness auction (Rscholz@aol.com)
Re: giving recipies (Don Trotter)
Sharing Recipes (Michael Caprara)
Beet/cane molasses (rq@lysator.liu.se)
Hopping/Extract Brewing (Paul Ward)
Corny Keg Sanitation ("ESCHOVIL.US.ORACLE.COM")
Zip City (talcottk@PENNIE.COM)
CO2 Evolution in Secondary (Rob Reed)
Giving up recipes (Steve Stroud)
Where the hell is Zip City really? ((George De Piro))
re:autolysis and secondaries (Oliver Weatherbee)
Oktoberfest vs. Scotch Ale / Lagale / Smoke / Rogue Smoke / Styles (Dave Greenlee)
RE: La Chouffe (Steve Stroud)
Re: New Miller: This "Heart of the Hops" ruse... (RUSt1d?)
Re: secret recipes/ looking for Kolsch (lheavner@tcmail.frco.com)
correction (M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac))
zip city bottles (Rscholz@aol.com)
I forgot the Irish Moss! ((Billy Cole))
Rice Hulls Source?/Gott Capacity/Bottle Cleaning (Eric Peters)
How many #s in a 10 gal Gott? ((Preston Merrick))
IFTIM, recipes (RUSt1d?)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh@crl.com.au>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 18:59:03 +1100
Subject: Sulphites - who needs 'em?
So if metabisuphites just give you a pathetic 99.9% kill
factor, who needs 'em?
Narziss has shown that a sulphite content in beer of 8-9 ppm
leads to the most stable beer flavour on the shelf. Although
yeast produces some during fermentation, some breweries add
more to act as an antioxidant/preservative. The taste (whoops
I mean "organoleptic" - gotta watch what I say!) threshold
is about 25ppm.
Sulphite binds with acetaldehyde, but not the higher aldehydes.
(Aside:
Acetaldehyde-bisulphite is found in beer but not the
other aldehyde-bisulphites, such as trans-2-nonenal-bisulphite.
Since trans-2-nonenal is responsible for cardboard staling,
sulphite does not contribute to beer stability by a masking
activity. Kaneda et al. from Sapporo contend that sulphites
have a free radical scavenging activity instead). ie. sulphite
acts as an antioxidant, but don't worry too much how this
happens. Just about all wine has a ton (whoops again, I didn't
really mean a *real* ton, not unless we're talking zillions of
litres - oh s***, what's a zillion?) of sulphite in it for this
reason.
When acetaldehyde is bound by sulphite, it can no longer be
reduced to ethanol. The normal fermentation pathway is blocked.
For this reason sodium metabisulphite should not be used in
bottle-conditioned beer as it can lead to high acetaldehyde
levels. Sulphite should be added after fermentation has ceased.
Personally I drink all my kegged beer way before it has a chance
to stale. I like to keep some bottle-conditioned beer, but
sulphite is clearly a no-no at the bottling stage.
Sulphite reacts with hypochlorite (bleach). If you have plastic
fermenters that have become impregnated with bleach, sodium met.
can be used to help get rid of the chlorine. I routinely clean/
sanitise (better not say the 's' word around these parts!)
with bleach, and keep a weak solution of sulphite in the container
for storage afterwards. I am always careful to rinse out the
container well before each use (maybe even give a bit of an H2O
soak).
Many people have a bad reaction to sulphite. It is really horrible
stuff to use, and is unnecessary in homebrewing (exceptions above).
I suspect its widespread use is a throwback from homebrewing's
original links with winemaking. I really wish kit manufacturers
would stop recommending it for all the wrong reasons. I also
wonder how much of the homebrew/kit cider taste is a result
of the brewer rinsing the bottles in a solution of this without
rinsing with water afterwards (as I have also seen recommended
around the traps).
Andy "sterilise is not a dirty word" Walsh.
- --
Andrew Walsh CHAD Research Laboratories
Phone (61 2) 212 6333 5/57 Foveaux Street
Fax (61 2) 212 1336 Surry Hills. NSW. 2010
email awalsh@crl.com.au Australia.
------------------------------
From: Rscholz@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 08:03:08 -0400
Subject: guinness auction
brewsters,
this isn't strictly brewing related but interesting none the less:
NEW YORK, Aug 12 (Reuter) - Christie's East on Monday started displaying a
large personal collection of advertising related to Irish brewer Guinness
<GUIN.L>, ranging from 60-year-old posters to ceramic, boozy zoo animals, to
be auctioned next month.
Bar owners and advertising fans inspected the collection of Briton Ian
Livingston, who recently decided that the collection of several hundred items
had overtaken his life, Christie's spokeswoman Jill Potterton.
Livingston, a games inventor, he sold half to the famous Irish brewer and
half is scheduled to go on the auction block at Christie's in London on Sept.
11. He will keep only one item: a Guinness lamp that started his collection
passion 20 years ago.
Livingston, who launched Dungeons and Dragons in Britain, was attracted to
the "whimsical, silly" character of the old-time Guinness advertising,
Potterton said.
Many of the posters, figurines and trays feature the lazy zoo keeper
character who for decades battled animals that tried to swipe his beer.
Ceramic pieces from 1956 include the exasperated zoo keeper, an ostrich
who has swallowed a pint glass, a kangaroo with a bottle in his pouch and a
seal, toucan and tortoise with beers.
Some items, such as posters proclaiming "Guinness is good for you," or
special edition children's books with added references to beer, might be
controversial if introduced today, Potterton said.
The Guinness company, which is about 200 years old, began advertising with
posters in Scotland in 1928. The auction house expects interest from Irish
pubs in Britain, Ireland, the United States and Asia.
richard scholz
bklyn ny
------------------------------
From: Don Trotter <dtrotter@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 08:33:59 -0500
Subject: Re: giving recipies
To All:
My point was a matter of encouragement, rather than criticism. I don't
believe that you or anyone else reading HBD are inept. If you don't
believe that you can write up a recipe from scratch, then give Suds a
try. I have made some recipes myself, and I have used suds. Now I let
suds do the calculations, but I pick the grains and hops according to
style.
I don't claim to be brewer extraordinaire. I have been brewing steadily
for just one year, and have gone from extract, to partial grain to all
grain, and have formulated every recipe myself. Some good, some not so
good, some wonderful. I've even dumped 5 batches, for various
reasons. I even finished a batch of English Pale Ale that started at
1.041 and finished at 1.024 -- talk about near beer.
My point is you learn from trying.
Anyway, give the recipe I put out yesterday a try. You should be
pleasantly surprised. Of course it's a 10 gallon recipe, so you may
have to do some math. The recipe and instructions, if done correctly
will make a beer that will score 40 or more in a competition. IT DID.
I will, however, give up no more recipes. :|
Enjoy,
don
------------------------------
From: Michael Caprara <mcaprara@awwarf.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 07:35:52 -0600
Subject: Sharing Recipes
Hello Fellow Brewers!
Well, I have to put my $.02 in since everyone else is! I think that giving
away recipes is a good thing. In fact I put my recipes on my homebrew
club's home(brew)page. Some of these recipes are award winning
beers. My philosophy is that another brewer cannot duplicate my or
your beers exactly, they may be better or they may not. For example:
Go to the LSD homepage (my homebrew club)
<http:www.dimensional.com/~godbey/louthan.html> and look at my ESB
recipe. It took first place in the first round of the AHA National
Competition, and it was a real good bitter. In order for you to truly
duplicate that beer, you have to have a stuck mash, pull the mash out of
the mash tun and slowly heat it to about 165 degrees, put it back in the
tun, bubble CO2 through the mash, and then sparge. (I thought this beer
would suck because of the problems, and the only reason I entered it
was to get more than 12 entries thus reducing my entry fee!!!) Also, I
placed the fermenters on my Bass Amp and played some raunchy
radical full volume bass licks through the beer (Yes, you CAN taste the
Bass in it), keeping time with the airlock (which would invaribly speed up
due to the massive vibrations from my thundering bass lines!). So, with
that said, please try to duplicate my Bass Bitter EXACTLY!
Brewfully Deadicated
MC :{P} <---mmmm Bass Bitter
You can taste the bass in it! #
"Bass Bitter" and "You can taste the bass in it" are trademarks of the
Dark Star Brewery, Littleton, Colorado
------------------------------
From: rq@lysator.liu.se
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 12:39:12 +0000
Subject: Beet/cane molasses
Hi,
I want to brew a porter with molasses. What kind of
molasses should I use? Here in Sweden beet sugar is
the most common kind of sugar, and I've only seen
beet molasses here. It smells nasty!! I guess molasses
from cane sugar would be better. What kind of molasses
is commonly used in brewing??????
Post or private e-mail.
Thanks in advance.
Erik Roennqvist, Linkoeping University, Sweden
email: rq@lysator.liu.se
------------------------------
From: Paul Ward <paulw@doc.state.vt.us>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 10:05:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hopping/Extract Brewing
O.K., I've got several batches under my belt (literally), haven't
had a major brewing disaster in the past couple of months, and am
beginning to feel comfortable with what I'm doing and (more
importantly) like my product. So now it's time to reflect and
try to improve process.
I only brew extract/specialty grain, and probably always will (I
know, anathema!). My understanding is that we boil the extract
with the hops at a rolling boil for a full 60 minutes not for the
sake of the extract as much as for hop utilization (bitterness)
because the alpha acid whatevers need to react with the extract
components. Because I'm boiling 6 or 7 pounds of extract in
about 2 gallons of water, my hop efficiency is severely
restricted and I have to compensate by adding more and more hops
as I use more extract. This doesn't sound like an efficient
system to me.
What I was wondering.....just exactly how much malt extract is
needed to efficiently utilize hop products? Instead of adding my
full 6 pounds of DME to the 2 gallons of water with 2 ounces of
Cascade, what would happen if I only added 1 pound of DME to the
water and hops and boiled this for 45 minutes, and then added the
remaining DME for the last 15 minutes of boil? My thought is
that this would cause less darkening (caramelization?) of the
wort than the full 60 minute boil, hopefully giving a lighter
product.
Would the 1 pound of DME for the full rolling boil be enough for
the hops to do their thing with? (<--grammatically incorrect)
Would 15 minutes be enough boil time to produce any and all 'hot
break' (do you really get this from extract?) from the remaining
malt extract?
Am I barking up the wrong tree? It just seems that lowering the
specific gravity of the boil should increase hop utilization if
that is the limiting factor in the first place.
Should I take up another hobby and just buy good beer? (NAAAHH!!)
Paul
paulw@doc.state.vt.us
- --
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what of humanitarians?
------------------------------
From: "ESCHOVIL.US.ORACLE.COM" <ESCHOVIL@us.oracle.com>
Date: 13 Aug 96 07:21:12 -0700
Subject: Corny Keg Sanitation
I recently had a really bad experience. I just tapped my first attempt at
kegging, and the beer was bad. I hope I never taste infected beer again!
Anyway, I think I know what went wrong. The guy at my local shop who sold the
corny to me told me to soak the keg and all of its parts in an iodophor
solution and then let try overnight. This offended my sensibilities because I
thought that letting it air dry overnight would definitely present a
possiblity for infection. Could this be what happened?
I am very new to the hobby, and up till this time, I have used bleach for my
glass/plastic items with no problems. Any ideas?
Also, I have read here and elsewhere that it is possible to use twist-off
bottles. Do you need the special thinner caps, or will the regular one work
fine?
Aufwiedershreiben,
Eric Schoville
Think foreign languages are fun? Try Klingon!
------------------------------
From: talcottk@PENNIE.COM
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 10:53:49 -0500
Subject: Zip City
FYI, Zip City Brewery is located at 3 West 18th Street in the
Chelsea/Union Square neighborhood of Manhattan. (212) 366-6333.
While you're in the neighborhood:
Nearby (within stumbling distance) is the Heartland Brewery, 35
Union Square West, (212) 645-3400. I've been to Heartland and
Zip City and would say they're worth a visit if you are careful
(interrogate the bartender) before choosing your beer.
A little further away is Neptune Brewery, 448 West 16th Street,
(212) 229-2129; I've never been there as it's a little out of the
way, but have read some good reviews.
If anyone would like a more complete list of NYC brewpubs I'd be
happy to respond via e-mail; if I get enough interest I'll just
post a list here.
Kelly Talcott; talcottk@pennie.com
------------------------------
From: Rob Reed <rhreed@icdc.delcoelect.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 10:00:13 -0400 (CDT)
Subject: CO2 Evolution in Secondary
Al wrote responding to my post on the advantages of secondaries:
>
> >3) Two-step fermentation allows much of the dissolved CO2 to outgas
> > and yields more consistent carbonation for bottled beers
>
> This is incorrect. The amount of CO2 in solution is simply a function
> of temperature. All the time in the world will not reduce the amount
> of dissolved CO2 in the beer at a given temperature. Yes, more CO2
> may bubble out in the secondary, but that's only because of fermentation,
> rise in temperature during racking or agitation during racking.
Perhaps in a particulate-free container of liquid, the rate of CO2
outgassing is *strictly* a function of temperature; however,
my experience shows that beers racked to secondary usually bubble for
2-3 weeks after which they settle down. I attribute this to yeast
flocs and protein-tannin precipitate acting as nucleation sites, much
as the way polyclar or Si gel behave when added to my fermentor.
Also, since I don't ferment my beer on an isolated foundation, there
is vibration due to doors slamming, children and pets running through
the house and the occasional pair of F-15s passing overhead.
Cheers,
Rob Reed
------------------------------
From: Steve Stroud <strouds@cliffy.polaroid.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:25:12 +0000
Subject: Giving up recipes
JimB> ...the last thing I want to see is Jim Koch marketing
JimB> a HopDevil knockoff because someone gave him a great
JimB> recipe in the Longshot program. Let the big boys
JimB> develop their own beers!
Well, OK, but personally I'd be happy if _any_ American brewer came out
with a De Hopduvel lookalike at a cheap price; I wouldn't care how they
got the recipe. The current BBC restrictions on Longshot beers (>6%
alc., standard BBC yeasts) limit what they can brew. One of the nine
winners this year was apparently a dubbel-like strong Belgian ale, but
by the time the yeast is changed and the alcohol level is brought down
it will probably drink more like a strongish brown ale - I hope that I'm
wrong!
Steve
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 10:29:47 -0700
Subject: Where the hell is Zip City really?
Sorry to waste space on this, but every post about the location of Zip
City has been wrong, and it would be upsetting to see so many friendly
homebrewers wondering aimlessly around Manhattan!
Zip City is at 3 West 18th street between 5th and 6th avenues. It is
not near NYU, nor is it near Columbus Circle, nor is Columbus Circle
near NYU! Of course, all of these places are very near to each other
on a planetary scale, but that's not relevant here!
It is, like most NY city brew pubs, mediocre. Worth the visit if
you're in the area, or collecting bottles, but that's it.
Have Fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY: a suburb just north of NYC)
------------------------------
From: Oliver Weatherbee <oliver@triton.cms.udel.edu>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:38:57 -0400
Subject: re:autolysis and secondaries
Al Korzonas replies to Rob's following arguments:
>>1) Secondary fermentation allows time for yeast to drop and allows
>> time for your beer to clear naturally (via tannin-protein complexing)
>I just leave the beer in primary longer.
>>3) Two-step fermentation allows much of the dissolved CO2 to outgas
>> and yields more consistent carbonation for bottled beers
>This is incorrect. The amount of CO2 in solution is simply a function
>of temperature. All the time in the world will not reduce the amount
>of dissolved CO2 in the beer at a given temperature. Yes, more CO2
>may bubble out in the secondary, but that's only because of fermentation,
>rise in temperature during racking or agitation during racking.rise in
>temperature during racking or agitation during racking.
>On the subject of clarity, the yeast will settle out. I have gotten
>comments from judges regarding the amount of yeast on the bottoms of my
>bottles like: "nice lunar landscape..." so I do sometimes have more yeast
>in the bottles than most, but this is also a function of how long I keep
>the beer in the primary and how stingy I am siphoning every last drop out
>of the primary.
Al, I always find your postings interesting and informative but in light
of your upcoming book(s?) I am also a little concerned with your
(admitted) bias against using a secondary. Perhaps bias is not the right
word, but from your own post I can see some advantages to using a
secondary particulary for those of us who don't have ~40 fermenters.
Providing adequate sanitation: Racking to secondary provides faster
fermentation and clearing of the beer as per your response to Robs' (1)
and I believe as you also allude to in number (3) the racking/agitation
will hasten the fermentation to its FG. For me this means I can usually
bottle 2 - 3 weeks after brewing (standard ales). Easily allowing me to
stick to a once a month brew schedule.
Also, avoiding too much bottle sediment has been a desire expressed
by other beginners posting to this forum and r.c.b., a result achieved
through the use of a secondary as you showed.
I believe the issue is not whether there are benefits to using a
secondary, but rather do those benefits outweigh the risks (infection,
oxidation, etc.) and costs (time). For me I believe they do, for yourself
apparantly not. Hopefully, when you present your material to a beginner,
you will do so with an even hand.
- --
________________________________________________________
Oliver Weatherbee oliver@triton.cms.udel.edu
First State Brewers
http://triton.cms.udel.edu/~oliver/firststate/
________________________________________________________
------------------------------
From: Dave Greenlee <daveg@mail.airmail.net>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 10:54:06 -0500
Subject: Oktoberfest vs. Scotch Ale / Lagale / Smoke / Rogue Smoke / Styles
TOPIC 1, OKT VS. SCOT: What is the essential difference between Okt and
an Export/Wee Heavy Scotch Ale? In most style guides, Okt fits neatly
into the lower end of the O.G. gap between Export and Wee Heavy, and if
one eliminates the 'can have's' and 'may have's' and the places where the
style guides disagree with one another to get down to the lowest common
denominator of each style, it would seem to come down to the fact that
the Okt is a lager and the Scot is an ale, which would seem to be
confirmed by my taste buds. The Scots seem to me to be heartier with the
broader range of flavors (i.e. some esters and diacetyl, etc.) that ale
brewing brings, while the Okt's seem to have a sharply-defined, clean
malt flavor, and perhaps a bit of tostiness or caramel flavor (aren't
they the same?) from the use of Munich or Vienna malt and lagering. The
only other mostly-agreed upon difference in the style guides would seem
to be that the Okt's can have that clean maltiness balanced by a bit of
hoppiness, where hoppiness is not generally acceptable in the Scots, but
my tastings would not seem to bear this out on the Okt side; if they're
hopped to the point that it can be detected, I can't detect it. So:
+ From an lowest common denominator point of view, is my
undisciplined brain or my unruly crew of taste buds missing something?
TOPIC B, LAGALE: What kind of Frankenstein's monster would I be creating
if I were to make a ScotOberfest Lagale? That is, a brew which is made
basicly as an ale, but which strikes the balance between the two styles
by using a ale yeast with lager characteristics? (I need to get a yeast
that will let me work at higher temperatures; I can probably manage a
fairly steady 65F, but not much lower than that. Wyeast California Lager
Yeast 2112 is what I was thinking of using, or one of the
brewing-Okt-as-an-ale yeasts - Wyeast 1007 or 1338 - suggested by Roger
Bergen in Oktoberfest Alternatives at
http://realbeer.com/brewingtechniques/oa_online.html , and most likely
the 1338.) I'd also probably want to use some Munich, but that brings me
to the next topic.
TOPIC III, SMOKE: Having read how to home-smoke malt and how to
home-toast malt, doesn't smoked malt have, per se, a toasty flavor, or is
the toasty/caramel flavor covered by the smoke flavor? If I were to add
some peat-smoked malt (from, I believe, Marris Otter [sp?]) to my lagale,
to add a hint of Scots smokiness, but in a small amount so not as to
create a RausScotBier - to which I'll return in a moment - would I get
the toasty flavor I need in a Okt, or would I need to add some Munich as
well? Would Belgian Special B, Victory, or Belgian Biscuit malts, none
of which I have ever used or tasted, be of any assistance?
TOPIC d, THE TRUTH COMES OUT: Okay, okay, what I really want to brew is
a RausScotOberfest Lagale; a basic brew which I could split out into
three batches: a Oktoberfest Lagale (leave out all the smoked malt), a
Scotch Ale (a very light touch of peat smoked malt), and the full
RausScotOberfest in which a hardwood smoke flavor is introduced (perhaps
through the addition of liquid smoke to the basic Scotch Ale) to create
something resembling Rogue Smoke.
TOPIC FIVE, ROGUE SMOKE: Rogue's brew page at
http://204.152.97.15/rogue/ says that Rogue Smoke is brewed from:
Northwest Harrington and Klages, Crystal, Carastan, Bamberg Beechwood
Smoked, and Chuck Linquist's hand-smoked Munich malts (using alder and
cherry), Perle and Saaz hops, plus their proprietary Pacman yeast.
Does anyone have an idea as to the proper proportions for 5 gallons? Is
there _really_ any difference between the various hardwoods in flavor,
once it gets into the beer?
TOPIC LAST, STYLE GUIDES: I have available to me, the style guides by
Dawson (WWW), Papazian (HBC), AHA (1996), Walz (BJCESG), and Malt of the
Earth (at http://www.maltbev.com/report/style.html); is Fred Eckhardt's
book worth spending another $12-15 on with these at hand? Is it badly
out of date as to styles and, even so, still an authority?
I welcome the advice of anyone bored enough to have read all of this!
Nazdrowie,
Dave Greenlee
------------------------------
From: Steve Stroud <strouds@cliffy.polaroid.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 12:07:04 +0000
Subject: RE: La Chouffe
Mark Peacock asks for some direction for developing a La Chouffe-like
beer and has received some good advice from JimB and BobW.
I would echo most of what they say and reinforce the point that you
should use la Chouffe yeast if at all possible. Besides those sources
already mentioned, the Belgian yeast sold by RTP cultures is the La
Chouffe yeast.
Wheeler and Protz's book "Brew Classic European Beers at Home" gives a
recipe for La Chouffe; the spicing in it is unusual. Here is an
outline of their recipe:
5 US gallons
OG 1.080
pilsner malt 87%
caramalt 5%
white sucrose 8%
A mixture of EKG, Styrian Goldings, and Saaz hops, all boiled one hour
to give ~30 IBU's.
_Ground_ spices, all boiled last 15 minutes:
0.15 oz coriander
0.15 oz cumin
0.08 oz caraway seed (hmmmmmm......)
Interesting addition of caraway; has anyone here ever used it in a
Belgian ale? At 0.08 oz/5 gallons it must be barely detectable, just
used for complexity.
Steve Stroud
------------------------------
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@li.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 12:05:33 -0700
Subject: Re: New Miller: This "Heart of the Hops" ruse...
>Miller Beer uses only the heart of the hop to produce a rich flavor
>that diminshes the bitter and filling characterisitics typically
>associated with full-flavored beers
Funny, I never knew hops added to the "filling characterisitics" of
a beer, and here i've been adding malt...
>Miller Beer is brewed with four times as many hops as other premium,
>mainstream beers
Let's remember some math: 4*0 = 0.
Real Hop Question:
Looking at my hops the other day and comparing the leaves to a chart
I got from the John Haas hop company, they all had three pointed leaves.
According to the chart, only Cascade is supposed to have three points.
(all the rest have five). I have Cascade, Chinook, Fuggles, Mt Hood,
Perle, and Willamette growing. This is the first year for the plants.
Do these plants only have three points on the leaf because they are young?
I also noted that a forming hop cone looks alot like a sticky kind bud growing.
- --
John Varady HBRCP11: Homebrew Software Made Easy
Boneyard Brewing Co. http://www.netaxs.com/~vectorsys/varady/
"Ale today, Gone tomorrow"
------------------------------
From: lheavner@tcmail.frco.com
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:06:16 -0500
Subject: Re: secret recipes/ looking for Kolsch
This is a Mime message, which your current mail reader
may not understand. Parts of the message will appear as
text. To process the rest, you will have to use a Mime
compatible mail reader. Contact your vendor for details.
- --IMA.Boundary.839954054
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Content-Description: cc:Mail note part
Don Trotter <dtrotter@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com> asks:
How many of us give up our recipes?
Seeing all the recipe requests in HBD doesn't make me feel well.
Can't
any of the requesters develop their own recipes? It really isn't
difficult. A little light reading and a little light math, or a
recipe
formulation program is all it takes.
I for one have given a few recipes away to strangers, but will give no
more.
The beers I make are good -- all of my friends tell me so. Shoot,
Honorable mention and a First Place winners tell me so. I don't know
about you all, but I plan to enter many more competitions and would
not
like to compete against myself, err, someone else using my recipe.
So, go ahead. Give it a try. Formulate you own. Remember what ol'
Charlie says, "Relax, ...." You'll never know until you try.
Don,
relax. not everybody who asks for a recipe wants to compete against
you. Sometimes, we are just searching for that special beer that we
have not been able to create/duplicate. I've been brewing longer than
I care to say and I have never entered a contest. Until I got on the
internet, I had no idea how many people were involved in homebrewing.
I don't read zymurgy or any of the other mags and I don't have room on
my pc for recipe software that looks interesting. Admittedly,
experimenting can be easy and fun, but it can take a while unless you
and your friends are heavy consumers or you get lucky in one of your
first few batches. And it is hard to make a bad beer if you just pay
attention to the basics, but not everybody is adventurous in the
brewery/kitchen. Anyway, I will freely give away any recipes that I
have tried. They won't have an official judges comments attached, of
course.
Now for a request. Is there a style defining Kolsch beer available in
Texas? I recently brewed a Kolsch from a kit that was one of the best
beers I've had in quite a while. The fruityness was incredible. I
just don't know if it was true to style or not, because I am
unfamiliar with the style. I used Wyeast Kolsch and fermented
relatively warm due to our hot and dry summer. It was recommended as
an alternative to American Lite which some of my lowlife friends are
fond of and it has indeed been popular with them.
Lou Heavner
<lheavner@frmail.frco.com>
...this from a guy who drinks beer floats...
- --IMA.Boundary.839954054--
------------------------------
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 11:47 -0600
Subject: correction
collective homebrew conscience:
i need to clean up a misleading sentence from last time:
>regarding racking to a secondary fermenter, i've done this with a few
>beers this spring, particularly a couple of pilsners <SNIP>
what i meant was, i DIDN'T rack the pilsners. sorry for the confusion.
hey, let's write about brewing, guys.
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
From: Rscholz@aol.com
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 12:48:56 -0400
Subject: zip city bottles
brewsters,
Paul A. Hausman replies to Ronald Narvaez:
>>I was wondering if anybody has heard of this beer. The full name on the
>>label was " Zip City Lager, Zip City Lager Brewing company Vienna" I am
>>intrested in getting a bottle
>Zip City Brewing Company is a brewpub located in downtown Manhattan
>(New York City) somewhere around the Columbus Circle, NYU area.
>"Vienna" is the name of one of their lager beers. The "cool
>bottles" (I've got one in my collection) are available only for
>take out, directly from the brew-pub. You hafta leave a hefty
>deposit and are supposed to return it for refill or refund.
Just to clear a few details up: Zip City Brew Pub is located on 18th St just
off
5th Ave. ( I go there offen, no afil) They have recently bottled their
AltBier
a great german dark ale and are distributing it around the new york area.
I can get it at my local deli in brooklyn (Park Slope) I hear they will
bottle
more types based on the good response to the AltBier.
Keep on Brewin'
richard scholz
------------------------------
From: Billy_Cole@dgii.com (Billy Cole)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 09:54:38 +0100
Subject: I forgot the Irish Moss!
I just brewed a batch of pale ale and forgot to add the Irish moss to the boil.
The beer
is still in its primary right now and I'd like to do something to clear it up a
bit. I've heard
conflicting information on the fact that the Irish moss can still be introduced
to the beer.
I plan on going to secondary in a couple of days. Can anyone supply me with any
ideas
on what I can do?? Thanks.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Billy Cole / Senior Engineer / Digi International
ph: 206-867-3893x628 / pager: 206-663-0229
billyc@dgii.com
------------------------------
From: Eric Peters <epeters@harris.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 96 13:48:30 EDT
Subject: Rice Hulls Source?/Gott Capacity/Bottle Cleaning
Does anyone know a convenient source for rice hulls? Do health
food stores carry them? (Never been in one.) Fifteen per cent
oatmeal isn't enough anymore. I usually have several hundred
lbs. of two-row around, so it seems silly to go out and buy six-
row.
Thanks for your help!
*****
Steve writes (quoting Keith [quoting Dion]):
>>> Did you somehow misunderstand, Keith? Gott Cooler?? An 18# grain
>>> bill in *my* 10 gal Gott is 4" from the top. Where is there space
>>> for another 10#?? How far from the top was your 20# mash?
>>
>>Me? Misunderstand? Never! I was obviously referring to *metric*
>>pounds ;)
>
>This tweaked my curiosity. I routinely mash twelve pounds in a 10 gallon
>Gott cooler for five gallon batches ( actually ~ 6 Gals. ). I use 1.1 quarts
>per pound of grist and a copper manifold with no false bottom. While it
>would be a stretch, I could double this mash and still fit it in the Gott.
>Dion, do you use a false bottom? How much strike water per pound?
My Mechanical Wonder IPA contains 29 lbs. of grain and mashes in a
10 gallon Gott. I think I may have gone as high as 31 lbs. at one
point. It's just a matter of your water-grain ratio and how thick
your willing to go. A nine-iron is must for stirring those really
thick mashes.
*****
On Fri, 09 Aug 96 16:04:49 edt Mike Spinelli wrote:
> HBDers,
> Regarding bottle baking, in my opinion is overkill. Several months ago I
> explored this very thing on the HBD. Tried it twice and chucked the practice.
> i think it was Russell Mast who wrote to me that he doesn't do jack to his
> bottles other than rinse them with water.
Didn't we have an HBDer who spat in his last, partial bottle every time,
and claimed not to have a problem? I didn't do it.
*****
From: Scott Dornseif <SDORNSE@wpo.it.luc.edu>
>Hello;
>I am writing to complain about all the people complaining in the HBD. People
>whining
>about how hard it is to read, what people write Blah, Blah Blah. If people
>don't stop
>complaining I am going to have to complain.
> Thank you for your time.
>Scott Dornseif
<whiny voice on>
Well, I'd like complain about people who complain about people who
complain about people who.....
<whiny voice off>
From: Marty Tippin <martyt@sky.net>
>Well, I've had about enough of the degeneration of the HBD and will be
>unsubscribing shortly.
Hang in there Marty! We just need a few good threads to really get
the HBD going again. How 'bout these ideas:
Dr. Crabtree - Genius or Crackpot?
Turd Beer - What category should I enter it in?
JSP Maltmill - God-given tool of the century?
Uh oh. Too much coffee this morning.
Eric Peters
"My opinion is worth what you are paying for it." - David Harsh
------------------------------
From: labmgr@magicnet.net (Preston Merrick)
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:00:18 -0400
Subject: How many #s in a 10 gal Gott?
For Kieth, Steve, Dion and Elvis:
I just finished a 27.5 lb mash in a 10 gal Igloo cooler. It was a rather
thick mash but wound up with just over 1 qt/ lb. I would consider this the
max. capacity and it wouldn't work with a thinner mash (smaller beers).
------------------------------
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@li.com>
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 1996 14:12:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: IFTIM, recipes
>I just brewed a batch of pale ale and forgot to add the Irish
>moss to the boil. The beer is still in its primary right now
>and I'd like to do something to clear it up a bit.
Why not just wait and watch it clear on its own? I forget to add
I.M. often and have never taken any other steps to clear the beer.
If after 8-10 days in the primary it's still not clear then add
some gelatin or polycar. Typically, you'll find you need nothing
extra (unless your yeast is a bitch).
>A little light reading and a little light math, or a recipe
>formulation program is all it takes.
Not only do I give away recipes, but I give away the software I
wrote to calculate them. Hopefully people are using it to create
better homebrew. If everyone was so stingy, no one would progress
past the level of novice in this explosive hobby and this list
would dry (sic.) up. I seldom copy a recipe, but rather prefer to
average together several winning recipes, taking pieces from each
that I like to create my own.
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2145
****************************
