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HOMEBREW Digest #2161
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/08/27 PDT
Homebrew Digest Tuesday, 27 August 1996 Number 2161
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Thanks HBD (liquori@ACC.FAU.EDU)
Saranac Fall Fest Competition Announcement ((Scott Barrett))
Boiling Over ((Tom Lochtefeld (Risk Mgt)))
Late harvest hops (Douglas Thomas)
Re: Heated Wyeast storage (Don Trotter)
RE: Bleach leaving a film ((George De Piro))
pumpkin ale (Tim & Marilyn)
Williams Brewing SS kettle w/valve (DEBOLT BRUCE)
IBU's in a Barley wine? (Jim Cave)
clearing beer ((Bob Ledden))
Activity in secondary fermenter ("James P. Shanley")
Brewing Water (KennyEddy@aol.com)
Heaters for mashing (orion@mdc.net)
Bleach residue ("Pierre A. Dumont")
Re: The German Rheinheitsgebot (Paul A. Hausman)
brains in my beer ((Jeff Sturman))
Re: Sorghum beer ("Terry Tegner")
mash pH ? ("Frederick L. Pauly")
APOLOGY FOR SPAMMING (ROCHW@aol.com)
RIMS PUMP ((WOLFF.R.C-))
The Cocoa Powder Saga: The Final Chapter ((George De Piro))
Elk Mountain?? (Mark Warrington)
Bottles AND Kegs? (Michael Beatty)
lagering/lauter tun designs/non-food-grade fermenters/bleach (korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com)
the importance of duplicating water/iodophor and One-Step(tm) (korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: liquori@ACC.FAU.EDU
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:14:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Thanks HBD
Yes, thanks to all in the HBD who have helped me out over the last eight
months with their invaluable advice. I've had too disastrous brews: a
stout and a Harpoon Winter Warmer clone (which as you may recall I stuck
my arm in...). Both were stuck fermentations with some horrid medicinal
flavor/aroma -- undrinkable.
Yes, I panicked when my ordinary bitter was uncarbonated after 5 days. So
I waited, not the two weeks everyone said, but 12 days. Guess what??!!
It's carbonated! It was Papazian's Righteous Real Ale. It's a little thin
in the body. If I made this again I would add some crystal malt to
attempt to remedy that. Also, the nose is a little weak as far as hop
aroma. Well, the head retention is not phenomenal either. Finally, there
is still a hint of that medicinal flavor/aroma (perhaps fermenting at 77
F is too high and/or lag time is too long).
Despite these problems (now I'm just getting greedy) I am thrilled with
the finished product: a drinkable homebrew. Now I know what everyone
means by "fresh."
So what's my point? None really, other than to thank everyone here who
has reassured me that homebrewing is not that difficult. I can RELAX now.
...Kevin
------------------------------
From: scott@partech.com (Scott Barrett)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:31:43 -0500
Subject: Saranac Fall Fest Competition Announcement
Attention New York State homebrewers, judges, and stewards
(with apologies to the rest of the hive)
CALL FOR ENTRIES
CALL FOR JUDGES AND STEWARDS
The 1996 Saranac Fall Fest Homebrew Competition
will be held Saturday, September 21, 1995
at the F.X. Matt Brewing Company in Utica, NY
This BJCP-registered homebrew competition is open to all New York State
homebrewers with entries in all 1996 AHA styles, except sake. In addition to
style category prizes, special prizes (personalized Saranac canoe paddles)
will be awarded to the five entries selected as closest to these members of
the Saranac family of beers:
Saranac Adirondack Amber
Saranac Golden Pilsener
Saranac Black & Tan
Saranac Pale Ale
Saranac Wild Berry Wheat
This competition is a part of the F.X. Matt Brewery's Fall Fest
celebration, the proceeds of which benefit the United Way. Your
competition entry also gets you a Fall Fest admission ticket, Saranac
sampling tickets, and Saranac T-shirt (available at the door).
Listing of events at the 1996 Saranac Fall Fest include:
Special "Brewer's Heaven" brewery tours by members of the Matt family.
Saranac family of beers on draft, including Saranac Stout!
Special "Behind the Scenes" brewery tours of interest to homebrewers.
Chance to win "Saranac Beer For A Year"
Seminars and discussions by members of the Matt Brewery.
Live entertainment and great food throughout the day.
Saranac specials and give-aways in the Brewery Shop.
Special "beer library" in the Brewer's Cafe.
100+ years of brewery memorabilia on display.
The competition also kicks off the "NY State Homebrew Club of the Year" and
"NY State Homebrewer of the Year" awards competition season. Enter early
and enter often!
For competition entry forms, judge/steward registration forms by US mail, or
more information, please contact competition organizer Tom Gaskell
(tgaskell@syr.lmco.com) at (315) 839-5004. Competition entry deadline is
September 14th.
For more information about Saranac Fall Fest and the Saranac family of beers
(including Wild Berry Wheat), visit http://www.saranac.com/whatsnew.html.
------------------------------
From: toml@fcmc.COM (Tom Lochtefeld (Risk Mgt))
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 14:45:15 EDT
Subject: Boiling Over
Aaron writes:
>P.S. I also noticed that you said it takes you 15 mins. to get your
>beer to stop trying to boil over. I do it in about a minute. Let it
>rise up so you know that you have completely established a boil, then
>before it boils over, pull your kettle off the heat and let it sink
>back down. You may need to do it twice, possibly three times, but it
>works. Hope this helps, because boil overs suck (extremely difficult
>to clean). Thanks guys.
Be _real_ careful when you pull that hot pot off of the stove.
Sometimes the boil-over unexpectedly cascades over the top scalding
your hands in the process (speaking from personal experience).
Regards,
Tom
------------------------------
From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd@uchastings.edu>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 11:51:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Late harvest hops
This year, right when my local brew supply told me to, I planted a
Willamette root. I get plenty of sun (6-8 hours depending on cloud
cover) and I water regularly every other day. The vines have grown
wonderfully (about 18 feet long) but no cones are even showing. What
could have happened? I used a good, loose potting soil, with plenty of
amendment, and a sandy bottom, placed into a 40 gallon tree pot. Is
there anything I can do? I know that the weather will stay warm for
another month or so, with rain starting another month after that
(somewhere around halloween). Is it possible that Willamette sets late
or is more cold resistant, so will be fine setting late in the season?
Posts or mail ok
Doug Thomas
thomasd@oxy.edu
------------------------------
From: Don Trotter <dtrotter@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 13:55:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Heated Wyeast storage
Duff at duff@tam2000.tamu.edu asks about Wyeast that has gotten
heated. I have seen an article in an old special issue of Zymurgy that
claims that 100% of the yeast in a Wyeast foil packet will be dead
within 3 days, whan kept at room temperature.
don
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:07:15 -0700
Subject: RE: Bleach leaving a film
Howdy,
In the last HBD a few people wrote that bleach leaves a film on the
surfaces it contacts. They cited the slippery feeling on their skin
as proof of this.
That slippery feeling isn't actually the bleach, although it is caused
by the it. That slipperiness is the lipids (fats & oils) in your
tissue being turned into soap by the bleach! Don't try this at home!
Use cold water when you sanitize with bleach, and hot water to rinse.
Hot water will evaporate off the chlorine quickly, and there will be
no residue. It is for this same reason that you should use cold water
when sanitizing: the chlorine will stay in solution, where it is
working for you, rather than evaporating at a high rate, and choking
you.
BTW, I, too, have always used bleach and have had no problems because
of it.
Have Fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: Tim & Marilyn <brokenskull@earthlink>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 15:22:42 -0500
Subject: pumpkin ale
i would like to make a pumpkin ale this fall, and was wondering if anyone
knew how much fresh pumpkin i need to brew 5gals....tks in advance.....tim
brokenskull brewing
chicago il 60625
brokenskull@earthlink.net
------------------------------
From: DEBOLT BRUCE <bdebolt@dow.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 96 16:58:43 -0400
Subject: Williams Brewing SS kettle w/valve
Thanks for the input on the Liberty Malt SS kettle, now the Williams
Brewing Catalog arrives (no affiliation with either, etc.) and they appear
to have a much better kettle/valve combo offered:
40 qt. SS pot, 18-8 deep drawn by Polar Ware w/handles, and
- - - welded on SS drain pipe with 3/8" MPT
- - - brass ball valve with 3/8" FPT outlet to attach a hose barb
- - - $159
Has anyone tried this pot? Any problems leaving a brass valve on an SS
fitting (corrosion?) for long periods of time?
TIA,
Bruce DeBolt
------------------------------
From: Jim Cave <CAVE@PSC.ORG>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 14:17:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: IBU's in a Barley wine?
I will be celebrating my 100th all-grain recipe with a barley wine.
To celebrate "triple digits" I thought I'd brew a beer to O.G. 1.100 and
100 IBU's and flaunt the style guidelines with massive hop flavour and aroma
(similar to my "Jewel In The Crown" (tm) IPA). Is 100 IBU's excessive? Or
will it mellow out after a few years?
Jim Cave
------------------------------
From: bobl@chesco.com (Bob Ledden)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:26:47 -0400
Subject: clearing beer
Hi all,
I would like to add one observation to the Irish Moss thread. I use
rehydrated IM at the 15 min mark of my boils and this has helped in clearing
my brews. One other thing that has helped in clearing my beers was going
from a 60 min to a 90 min boil. I dont add hops until the 60 min mark which
gives the wort 30 min to create hot break without any interference from the
hops. Anyone notice the the same thing in there brewery?
Later,
Bob Ledden
Caln,Pa
bobl@chesco.com
------------------------------
From: "James P. Shanley" <jps3@columbia.edu>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 17:33:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Activity in secondary fermenter
I brewed a batch of pilsner using a kit from my local homebrew store. I used
bakers dried active yeast which I started with a little bit of the cooled wort.
There was nice activity in the fermenting bucket and after one week I
transferred it to my secondary fermenter. I now have more activity in the
secondary fermenter than in the original fermenting bucket. It's been in the
secondary fermenter for a little over a week now and there is still
activity. Does this indicate that the beeer is infected with bacteria? Or
does it just mean I have very active yeast? Thanks
Jim Shanley
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 18:24:17 -0400
Subject: Brewing Water
William P Giffin asks:
<<Do we have to adjust our
brewing water to achieve the style we want or can we do a good job of
brewing by just getting the pH of the mash and the sparge water in the
appropriate range? >>
The answer is, "yes". Actually, there's merit in both perspectives.
Bill wrote about his experiences with "Burtonizing" brewing water;
essentially saying that he obtained the desired effect over a wide range of
sulphate levels. I think that's entirely possible. I brewed a pale ale usng
Mosher's "ideal pale ale" profile which is about half as sulphated as "the
real thing". It was great -- sharply accentuated hop character and minerally
flavor. I suspect there is a sort of "threshold level" where the effect
kicks in, and it probably levels off at some point not terribly far above
that.
Bill, I'd venture to say that if you used too much gypsum in your pilsners,
which could happen given your very soft water's capability to yield a high-pH
mash, that you *would* notice *if* you compared it to one acidified with
CaCl2 or phosphoric acid. Would the first beer be a crappy beer? Probably
not. Would it be "rougher" than the second? I'd wager so.
Some thought needs to be added to your water along with your salts. Hitting
an ion profile "exactly" is usually impossible; coming within 20% is often
tedious and impractical. Getting high sulphates in a pale ale or high
alkalinity in a stout is pretty straightforward, and it's those kinds of
"broad approaches" that are probably most appropriate for most brewers,
rather than *duplicating* Classic BrewTown's water.
Getting the pH of the mash and sparge in line is *very* important. Mash pH
must be managed to optimize enzyme activity and therefore yield, among other
effects. Keeping your sparged runnings below 6.0 pH is easier if the water
going in is already below 6.0 pH (the mash is already at about 5.4). Calcium
management in the brew water can play an important role here, so again the
two perspectives overlap.
I've found that "building water" from RO and salts yields a cleaner beer than
using tap water. In my case, it's at least partly because my tap water is
positively doo-doo. But your tap water probably contains chlorine, organics
such as pesticides, and perhaps trace minerals that can throw off your beer.
If you're happy with your beer and you're winning awards and accolades, then
great, brew with what works. But if you're finding that you're doing
everything "right", it very possibly *COULD BE* your water. Brew a batch of
your favorite beer using 5 gal of RO with 1/2 tsp gypsum and 1/2 tsp baking
soda only, and compare with the same beer brewed with tap water. If you see
a difference as I did, you'll become a convert too!
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
From: orion@mdc.net
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 09:05:07 -0400
Subject: Heaters for mashing
>With regard to heaters, it was said (by Dion Hollenbeck):
>The average heater element you can buy in the "home store" for hot
>water heaters are *high density* elements. These are typically about
>5000 watts in a loop about 12" long, or a total of 24" of element.
>These are too powerful and will scorch the wort. Also, they are
>galvanized, which in contact with wort is not a good thing.
Agreed about the zinc. While some extra zinc in the diet is not all that
bad, the taste change is disagreeable.
>The proper heater element to use is a low density Nikalloy one which
>is essentially stainless steel.
I am a salesman for a stainless steel tubing manufacturer, and heater
manufacturers are our biggest customers. I speak from some authority here.
Nicolloy is not as readily used as are some cousin alloys, Incoloy, and
Inconel. The trade industry alloy number for Incoloy is 800, and there is
also a 840 version. Inconel is 600 and 601 series alloy. These alloys are
typically used for extreme heat applications, such as the coils on electric
ranges (stove top and oven coils), etc. That is, the coils normally get red
or yellow hot in use. For the type of application that is discussed here, it
is a bit of overkill. Normal 300 series stainless steel would do just fine.
The corrosion resistance is there, and enough heat to do the job without
discoloring the heater. BTW, it is important to note that in use, Incoloy
and Inconel tube heaters get a black oxide that forms on their surface. It
is a normal condition. However, I do not want that getting on MY wort.
>One of these with a rating of 240v
>5000 watts is about 72" when uncoiled, it is bent back on itself
>twice. When run at 110v, it puts out a total of 1250 watts, which
>ends up being a watt density of about 10 watts per square inch. On
>top of that, it has a 1" straight pipe thread which threads into a
>1 1/2" by 1" reducing bushing just perfectly. This is the heater
>element recommened by Rodney Morris in his article on how to build a
>RIMS in Zymurgy Special Issue 1992 on Gadgets. It is obtainable
>from W.W. Grainger for about $28. The Part # is 2E767. If you are
>planning on a 10 gal or larger system, it would be wise to get a
>2E768 which is 6000 watts, but because it is longer, maintains the
>same heat density. You *must* have adequate wattage for your mash
>size and the watt density *must* be low. Add wattage by getting a
>bigger, longer heater, or putting a second heater in series. Never
>run these heaters on 240v or you run the risk of severe scorching of
>the wort.
I am glad to learn that there is a source for heaters such as these.
>While there are several commercial heater element companies which
>provide heater elements which are suitable, the one from Grainger is
>the easiest to obtain.
Here, again, I would agree. I have asked several of my customers if they
could develop a special heater for me (with intentions to sell them
commercially). While they were eager to assist (and could provide
thermostatic controls, etc), the cost to make them was more than one could
get at a place like Grainger.
>Again, the two critical factors are stainless steel (also called
>Nikalloy or Inconel) sheath and low watt density, around 10 wpsi.
dion
- - --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
Orville Deutchman
Brewer of Down Under Ale!
Hobby Brewing at its Finest!
I'm relaxing, and having a homebrew!
orion@mdc.net
------------------------------
From: "Pierre A. Dumont" <q9wj@unb.ca>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 19:49:31 +0000
Subject: Bleach residue
To carry on this bleach thread, bleach does not leave any film on any
of your equipment. When you clean your glassware and bottles the nice
"film" which sticks to glass after you rinse is just the water. Water
sticks to glass when the glass is clean. This is how I can tell that
my glassware is free from any organic material in the chemistry lab. When you
get bleach
on your hands the sodium hydroxide reacts with fat and oil on your
hands to make soap. That's why it feels, or looks like something is on
your equipment. So don't worry............
Maybe I should have posted this in sci.engr.chem but its just my two
cents worth to the collective.
________________________________________________________
Pierre A. Dumont
221-602 Graham Ave.
Fredericton, NB E3B 4C3
mailto:pierre_dumont@unb.ca
vioce:(506)455-4988
fax:(506)455-4988
________________________________________________________
------------------------------
From: Paul A. Hausman <paul@lion.com>
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 19:03:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: The German Rheinheitsgebot
In Homebrew Digest #2160, mark bayer responded to geoff bagley:
> >in the year AD 1516 that "no ingredients other than barley, hops and
> >water shall be used" (My loose translation.)
> >He didn't mention the use of yeast, wheat, or finings, but neither did
> >he mention spices, fruit, sugar, maple syrup, or industrial enzymes.
>
> actually, the rheinheitsgebot stipulated malz (malt), hopfen (hops), and
> wasser (water). it did not specify barley as the only type of malt that was
> allowable. therefore, wheat malt would not violate the decree.
> the role of yeast was not understood in those days, so it was omitted from
> the list.
Interesting, I have only ever read (perhaps inaccurate) English
translations, but I understood the restriction to be only "barley malt",
hence eliminating other grain malts as well as unmalted barley.
> >Apart from commercial brewing, where they are run by accountants, why
> >put so much junk in your beer?
>
> i'm as hardcore a bavarian brewer as they come with respect to the
> rheinheitsgebot for traditional german styles, but i think the world would
> be a less pleasant place without the variety that spices, fruits, sugars,
> and etc. contribute to the world of beermaking.
It should also be noted that the current German Beer Purity Law
applies this tough standard of ingredients only to bottom-fermented
beers such as lagers, not to top-fermented beers/ales such as
Bavarian weiss. Even the Germans are willing to experiment a bit.
***************************************************************************
* Paul A. Hausman Paul@Lion.com *
* Lion Technology Inc. Voice: (201) 383-0800 *
* P.O. Box 700, Lafayette, NJ 07848 Fax: (201) 383-2459 *
***************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: brewshop@coffey.com (Jeff Sturman)
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 1996 20:51:40 -0600
Subject: brains in my beer
A couple of recent posts have dealt with unusual cold breaks that appear to
be loogies or brains. It happens to me quite often, but it got out of
control once, about six months ago. To see a picture of this strange
phenomenon and a short summary of what I learned, go to:
http://www.coffey.com/~brewshop/brainbreak.html
Hope this helps distinguish between cold break and real brains, the latter
of which can make your beer smell like a MENSA meeting.
jeff
------------------------------
From: "Terry Tegner" <brewtec@global.co.za>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:27:31 +0200
Subject: Re: Sorghum beer
Just to put your statements into perspective about Sorghum beer in SA, the
Sorghum breweries where an apartheid creation to finance the black
townships. The National Sorghum Breweries, which used to be state owned, is
now privately ownes with various international beer producers having
invested therein. The Nat Sorghum Breweries are in the process of
investing in clear beer production as in their VIVO microbrewery. Sorghum
beer became big news in Nigeria when the import of barley malt was banned
as an austerity measure and I believe it is still the case. Although
Sorghum beer was a traditionally brewed drink in the Wild Africa days, it
is a foul smelling repulsive drink compared to clear beer and is only drunk
by those who can't afford anything else. The recently formed brewing ind
assoc in South Africa has pointedly excluded them as Sorghum beer is not
considered beer in the true sense.
------------------------------
From: "Frederick L. Pauly" <flp2m@galen.med.virginia.edu>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 05:17:19 -0400
Subject: mash pH ?
Would there be a noticeable flavor difference in a Pale Ale
mashed at a pH of 5.8 vs one mashed at 5.2? What type of flavor
differences if any and are there any commercial micros that
prefer a high or low mash pH?
Thanks
Rick Pauly
Nuc Med Tech
Charlottesville,Va
------------------------------
From: ROCHW@aol.com
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:10:06 -0400
Subject: APOLOGY FOR SPAMMING
PLEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGY FOR POSTING TO YOUR NEWSGROUP. I NEVER INTENDED TO
OFFEND ANYONE. IT WILL NOT BE DONE AGAIN.
------------------------------
From: WOLFF.R.C-@smtpgty.bwi.wec.com (WOLFF.R.C-)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 08:10:36 -0400
Subject: RIMS PUMP
Back in July I submitted a thread about a 1/50th hp magnetic pump that
was rated at 220 degrees. I have received the pump and gave it a test
when I brewed a Porter this weekend. The pump has a nice mounting
bracket attached to it and it is a nice feature. The pump is made of
metal for the motor and polysulfone for the pump actuator. It is very
efficient and extremely quiet. I set up a copper tubing system
controlled on the output end byt a ballcock. The pump is rated at 6
gpm with a head space of 7-8 ft at 212 degrees.
I had the pump running for 1 1/2 hrs for mashing and the after boiling
transferred the HOT wort to a SS keg ~ 6 ft above the boiler. It
transferred all 12 gallons with no problems and in about 3 minutes.
Overall I was very happy with the pumps performance. This pump is made
by one of the top pump mfgs in the US. It is not a Little Giant. This
pump was designed specifically for a coffee system mfging company ant
the supplier had to go through quite a bit of paperwork to get the
pump. Far as I am concerned it was worth it. If you are interested in
the pump you can call Pump and Compressors 410-987-1343 and ask for
Rick. Tell him you are interested in the pump for a beer system.
They are the only people that the pump mfrg. has oked to sell this
pump. I do not profit by this and they were just a nice enough company
to go the extra steps.You can e-mail me if you want more info or if
you live in the Baltimore area you can stop by and check out the pump.
I went to great lenghts to find a pump that I thought would do the
trick. There is a 1/100 pump available, but It is a little weak (my
opinion) for the time and head space necessary for RIMS brewing.
PLEASE do not e-mail me telling me about other pumps etc.
Cheers,
Bob"Wild Boar" Wolff
Sr. Engineer(Chemical)
Northrop Grumman
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 07:54:19 -0700
Subject: The Cocoa Powder Saga: The Final Chapter
Howdy,
Just a quick note about my foamless fermentation of a stout that used
cocoa powdah (say it Frenchie, Pow-dah).
It turns out that all of my worrying about the beer was, of course,
pointless. The fermentation was headless because of the huge oil
slick that was present in each carboy! (couldn't see it until last
night when I racked the beer)
The reason I used cocoa powder was to avoid the oil slick in the first
place! Papazian lied to me! I feel so betrayed!
All that worry! Papazian would think that I'm the Antichrist, but
it's his own fault!
Have Fun!
George (what mark on my head?) De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: Mark Warrington <warringt@esvax.dnet.dupont.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 1996 09:43:26 -0400
Subject: Elk Mountain??
I tasted a brown ale (lager?) made by Anheiser-Busch that was being
t*st-
marketed in New England in 1994. Has anybody heard of it again? It was
ok
tasting, a little bitter for me, but much better overall that other A-B
products. Have any of you seen/tasted it?
Mark
------------------------------
From: Michael Beatty <mbeatty@STLMPE-4.ARMY.MIL>
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 9:03:42 CDT
Subject: Bottles AND Kegs?
Greetings Beer Lovers,
Hopping off my lurking stool, I've got another one for the
collective. I now have a couple of batches under my brewing belt
now and am considering (more like planning) the move from bottling
to kegging. With the holiday season approaching (ie. homebrew
gifts), I am toy-ing with the idea of splitting 5 USgal batches into
bottles and kegs (maybe 12 bottles or so). Are there any
suggestions on how I may do this with as little hassle as possible,
or are there issues involved that I am not currently aware of? I am
somewhat familliar with the counter-pressure filler concept, but am
not sure if I want to spend the $$ on one, since the costs with
starting up the kegging operation are a bit high initially.
Thanks in advance for all replys, and I'll be posting a summary
given enough response.
Until the next full mug,
Mike
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 09:58:45 CDT
Subject: lagering/lauter tun designs/non-food-grade fermenters/bleach
Eric writes:
>I re-read TCJOHB last nite and all it says about lagering is that "it is
>aging" the beer. Nothing refering to temps or vessels.
>I ferment in my basement which depending on location, I can achieve temps
>between 58 and 80 F. I figure this range can get me going, but how much
>lower do I need to go to get a decent product?
The primary difference between ales and lagers is that ales have noticeable
esters (which give the beer a fruity aroma) and lagers do not. Yeast create
more esters when they ferment at higher temperatures which is why lagers,
which are fermented quite a bit cooler than ales are low in esters. Lagering
does play a role in the flavour of a lager, but not as much (in my opinion)
as the fermentation temperature.
If you can't ferment below 58F, you can't make a true lager, but you can
make a beer that is lager-like. Some yeasts (like Wyeast American Ale #1056)
only produce low levels of esters even at ale temperatures (but please note
that #1056 does not like the temperature to be much lower than 63F (in my
experience) -- I have read posts from others who have successfully fermented
#1056 at around 60F, but I believe they used relatively large starters).
Lager fermentations are typically done at temperatures between 45 and 55F.
Some lager yeasts can ferment even lower and others prefer the higher end of
this range. Note that lager fermentations can take quite a bit longer
(like two to four weeks, depending on starter size) than ale fermentations
and you should really use at least a 2 liter starter (4 liters for 5 gallons
would not be too big).
During lagering there are many chemical and biological reactions. Diacetyl
and acetaldehyde that were created during the fermentation are reabsorbed
(note that a few days between 60F and 65F when fermentation is almost over
will help reduce diacetyl faster and therefore shorten the lagering time
required -- this is called a diacetyl rest). Chill haze is formed and
settles. There are many other reactions that take place. I had a Traditional
Bock lagering in bottles at 40F that smelled like home perm solution.
Suddenly, after four months, the smell disappeared and the beer went on to
win several 1st place ribbons.
>Can I use a carboy for the lagering? How about the 5L mini-kegs which I just
>started using? How long should I plan on lagering for?
You can lager in the carboy, mini-kegs, corny kegs or even bottles. Lagering
in bottles is probably the least preferable because the stuff that settles
out of the beer during lagering can easily be stirred back up during the pour.
How long to lager? It depends on the yeast and on whether or not you did
a diacetyl rest. Some yeasts take a long time, others, less. Ideally, I
would recommend lagering in a glass secondary for 6 or 8 weeks and then
bottle. Warm up the bottles to the low 60's (F) for two weeks to carbonate.
Then, cool the bottles down slowly (say 5F per day) into the 40's (F). Try
one. If there is still a lot of diacetyl (butterscotch or buttery),
acetaldehyde (green apple aroma) or sulphury aromas, let it go a couple more
weeks. If it tastes great, you're done!
Some say that you need to add more yeast at bottling time. In my experience,
this is not necessary. While more yeast will decrease the time it takes to
carbonate, you still won't be drinking the beer till after lagering is done,
so what's the hurry?
***
Ken (from Precision Brewing Systems, please note) writes:
>1. I suggest you check the literature. Brewing Techniques did an article on
>different drainage systems (tubes, manifolds and false bottoms), last year.
>The full false bottom is the most efficient by far in getting good
>extraction rates. The size should be the full diameter of the kettle. From
>my own brewing experience, The difference beinng about 27 OG pts/lb vs 33
>pts per lb.
I did an experiment comparing various designs of lauter tuns. It was written
up and published in the Great Grains issue of Zymurgy (1995 Special Issue).
The bottom line is that while there was a difference between the various
lauter tun designs, it was not as large as Ken's experience.
The size of the area from which the wort is drawn does affect the efficiency
of the extraction (small area == slightly less efficiency), however, by
slowing the rate of lautering (make sure your lauter takes at least 45
minutes and 90 minutes would be even better) will minimize the difference
between large and small wort-drawing areas. I have gotten 30 pts/lb/gal
from my EasyMasher(tm) which is about the smallest area of all the designs
(although I did take 8 gallons of runnings and boiled it down to 5.5).
***
Dave writes:
>May I suggest that you do your primary fermentation in an approximately 6
>gallon ( 30 liter) white or black polyethylene plastic wastebasket
I would be very cautions in using something not specifically approved for
food use. I've read about people dumping 5 gallons of "plastic beer" not
just from using garbage bins for fermenters, but even from using the wrong
type of hose for siphoning!
***
Kevin--
>Bleach is a solution of sodium hypochlorite, made
>by the reaction of chlorine gas and sodium hydroxide. What remains after
>a sterilization with bleach are sodium chloride and sodium hydroxide.
>Using the amounts prescribed by a number of homebrew texts, these
>compounds are going to be in such low concentration that they won't affect
>flavor or wort pH, even if you don't rinse.
Well, you knew that when you said "sterilization" you were going to hear
from me. I'm sure Kevin meant "sanitation," and he may be right about
the results of all the reactions being sodium chloride and sodium hydroxide,
*BUT* these reactions would have to run to completion with *all* the sodium
hypochorite. This is not usually the case. Also the chlorine in the bleach
can react with organic compounds in the wort. No, at the recommended
concentrations for sanitation (200ppm of Cl -- which is 1 tbsp per gallon)
rinsing should be done or there is a high risk of chlorophenols being
created and they are particularly unpleasant-smelling.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 27 Aug 96 10:02:49 CDT
Subject: the importance of duplicating water/iodophor and One-Step(tm)
Bill writes:
>Why is it important to try to duplicate the water of the type of beer you
>are brewing, for example Burton water which has 1,200 ppm of total
>dissolved solids in its water.
It's not the dissolved solids you want to duplicate, but (in the case of
Burton-on-Trent water) the sulphate level.
>I read that Calcium is required in the brewing process yet the water of
>Pilsen has very little calcium and my water is very similar to Pilsen
>water and I have brewed many different styles of beer, that were to style
>or very close to style. All my batches have been all grain and I have had
>no difficulty in any way brewing many different styles.
Calcium *helps* in brewing for several reasons: it reacts with phosphates
in the malt to lower pH, it helps protect some enzymes from denaturing too
quickly and it forms calcium oxalate (beerstone) which otherwise would
otherwise result in what's called "oxalate haze." Since the brewers in
Pilsen have very low calcium levels, they have to use an acid rest which
is an enzymatic way of lowering pH (phytase makes phytic acid). You cannot
make beer that tastes like a Burton ale from Pilsen water without adding
LOTS of sulphate. The beer simply won't have that long, lingering bitterness
that sulphate's reaction with hop bitternes adds.
>Lets go back to Burton water if the water is unadjusted how much of the
>solids precipitate out of the wort during the boil? How much sulfate is
>required to give the hop character of a Burton pale ale?
You are confusing temporary hardness with permanent hardness. Temporary
hardness is the result of calcium carbonate/bicarbonate, whereas permanent
hardness is from calcium sulphate. When you boil the high calcium carbonate/
bicarbonate water, some of the calcium carbonate/bicarbonate will precipitate
out. Calcium sulphate does not. It is plenty soluble even if you pre-boil
the water. When you have high-sulphate water, you are stuck with it (unless
you use an RO water system or dilute with bottled water). The level of
sulphate in Burton-on-Trent water has been reported in various books to be
between 600 and 750 ppm.
>I have brewed bitter where I adjusted the water to Burton, added a small
>amount of gypsum to the mash for pH adjustment and adjusted the pH using
>lactic acid. All the beer tasted about the same. It would be hard to
>pick out which beer had the most sulfate. Do we have to adjust our
>brewing water to achieve the style we want or can we do a good job of
>brewing by just getting the pH of the mash and the sparge water in the
>appropriate range?
Are you sure you used the right amount of salts to duplicate Burton water?
It's quite a lot. You also need to have a pretty high bitterness in the
beer. The sulphate affects the finish the most. Here's a perfect example:
I tried brewing a Bohemian Pilsner with Chicago water + distilled. About
1/3 of the water was distilled, 2/3 Chicago water. I believe that we have
25 ppm of sulphate in our water. The resulting beer was good and drinkable
and marginally in-style, but it had a slight increase in bitterness in the
finish which is due to the sulphate. It was not a great Bohemian Pilsner
because of this.
Burton water and sulphate is a good example, but another one is Dublin water
and carbonate/bicarbonate. If you made a stout with Pilsen water it would
be more acid than it should. The reason stouts work so well in Dublin is
because the acidity of the dark grains balances the alkalinity of the
high-carbonate water.
***
Kurt writes:
>I noted in one of Dave Burley's postings in HBD 2159, that iodophor can also
>contribute off flavors if misused. What about products like One Step?
I agree that, if misused, iodophor can contribute off-flavours, but if
you use the dilution that yields 12.5 ppm of titratable iodine, you can
drip dry the bottle or carboy and not have any problems. One-Step(tm) is
primarily sodium percarbonate which, when added to water, is basically
hydrogen peroxide and sodium carbonate, both very flavour-neutral this
late in the brewing process. The sodium carbonate is a pretty good
cleaner and the peroxide is the sanitizer. Note that you should not
soak anything very long in either One-Step or sodium carbonate (washing soda)
because it a carbonate film can form on the item (which takes acid to
remove).
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2161
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