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HOMEBREW Digest #2140
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/08/09 PDT
Homebrew Digest Friday, 9 August 1996 Number 2140
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
So ... what stage are we in now? ((Michael Higuchi))
pet bottles & stores (Alex Flinsch)
High-acid beer? (michael j dix)
Errrrr....explosive fermentation. ((J. Matthew Saunders))
white film, autolysis ("Gregg A. Howard")
dry stouts again ("The People, Jones")
[none] ((Hank ))
Need drinkin' Santa clipart ((MR BILL STOUGHTON))
batch sparging / Gott cooler volume ("Keith Royster")
A specific question about SPECIFIC GRAVITY (Dynamic_Don <")
Who Elected You? (Derek Lyons)
[none] ((Greg Douhan))
5L mini-keg foam-a-rama (dbrigham@nsf.gov)
Re: Sanitizing Bottles in the Oven ("Sutton, Bob")
Re: Recipe requests (Don Trotter)
chocolate beer (liquori@ACC.FAU.EDU)
Length of Responses (Michael Caprara)
Yeast Mutations ((Sean Cox))
Recent batch - want opinions on changing (Michael Mahler)
GABF getting more expensive (Kelly Jones)
Re: Beer & Food ("Decker, Robin E.")
Zip City Lager (Narvaez Ronald)
lactobacillus delbrueckii (M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac))
Re: Receiving Homebrew Digest (Tortelooni@aol.com)
5L Minikeg Summary (William D Gladden )
HBD 2138 (William D Gladden )
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mhiguchi@ix.netcom.com (Michael Higuchi)
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 23:55:05 GMT
Subject: So ... what stage are we in now?
If anyone is offendend by the waste of bandwidth, I apologize.
That is to say, I'm sorry you feel that way! :P
{Reposted from the Team Internet cycling list}
THE NATURAL LIFE CYCLE OF MAILING LISTS
Every list seems to go through the same cycle:
1. Initial enthusiasm (people introduce themselves, and gush a
lot about how wonderful it is to find kindred souls).
2. Evangelism (people moan about how few folks are posting to
the list,
and brainstorm recruitment strategies).
3. Growth (more and more people join, more and more lengthy
threads develop, occasional off-topic threads pop up).
4. Community (lots of threads, some more relevant than others;
lots of information and advice is exchanged; experts help other
experts as well as less experienced colleagues; friendships
develop; people tease each other; newcomers are welcomed with
generosity and patience; everyone -- newbie and expert alike --
feels comfortable asking questions, suggesting answers, and
sharing opinions).
5. Discomfort with diversity (the number of messages increases
dramatically; not every thread is fascinating to every reader;
people start complaining about the signal-to-noise ratio; person
1 threatens to quit if *other* people don't limit discussion to
person 1's pet topic; person 2 agrees with person 1; person 3
tells 1 & 2 to lighten up; more bandwidth is wasted complaining
about off-topic threads than is used for the threads themselves;
everyone gets annoyed).
6a. Smug complacency and stagnation (the purists flame everyone
who asks an 'old' question or responds with humor to a serious
post; newbies are rebuffed; traffic drops to a doze-producing
level of a few minor issues; all interesting discussions happen
by private email and are limited to a few participants; the
purists spend lots of time self-righteously congratulating each
other on keeping off-topic threads off the list).
OR
6b. Maturity (a few people quit in a huff; the rest of the
participants stay near stage 4, with stage 5 popping up briefly
every few weeks; many people wear out their second or third
'delete' key, but the list lives contentedly ever after).
******************************************************************************
LAUGH OF THE DAY - A service of LaughWEB
(http://www.misty.com/laughweb/).
[Michael Higuchi : PGP Key 0x004DCDA9 on key servers]
[Costa Mesa, California : ]
------------------------------
From: Alex Flinsch <Sparrowhawk@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 01:04:48 +0000
Subject: pet bottles & stores
After reading recent posts about PET bottles I kind of remembered buying
Young's Ram Rod
in 2 liter PET bottles about 8 or 9 years ago. I think i bought these in New
Jersey, but
it might have been in New York. Since it was a larger sized bottle, many of
us in states
with restrictive bottling laws might not have had access to these bottles.
Does anybody
else remember seeing this or am I just dreaming ?
Also while shopping at a local pet shop a few days ago (cat food for Angus &
airstones for
the beer) I got a weird idea. There seemed to be many products in the shop
that might be of
use to homebrewers.
Liquid stuff to remove chlorine & chloramines from water - if fish can
tolerate the stuff
after it has been diluted in water, can it be all that toxic? Could it be
used for brewing?
Aqurium heaters - could they be used to keep fermenting beer at a constant
temp? It might
be a cheap alternative to the brewing thermostat that was mentioned in the
last digest.
Alex
------------------------------
From: michael j dix <mdix@dcssc.sj.hp.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 96 18:04:43 PDT
Subject: High-acid beer?
The quote from "Table Wines" on how well sulfites kill micro-organisms
at a pH of 3 made me wonder how relevant this fact is to most beers.
Although, I have had lambics tart enough to make my mouth pucker. Have any
lambic-style brewers measured the pH of their beers? What is typical,
high-low, etc?
Mike Dix
------------------------------
From: saunderm@vt.edu (J. Matthew Saunders)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 21:20:02 -0400
Subject: Errrrr....explosive fermentation.
Collective,
I felt the need to share my brew session with you folks and see what kind
of feedback I'd get, whether others have had a similar experience.
First of all, my primary is a 7 imperial gallon food grade pail.
Secondly, I was making a porter.
Thirdly I used a half gallon starter prepared from Wyeast 1318 (London Ale III)
I was delighted that after chilling, areating, and pitching, I could see
action in the pail after a mere 60 minutes. I've reduced lags quite alot,
but 60 minutes knocked my socks off.
I went to bed and woke up to a wonderful/nasty surprise. I cover my bucket
with sanitized food grade HEAVY plastic wrap. It was puffed up close to 3
inches above the lip of the bucket. The beer's actual level is a good 3
inches below the lip of the bucket. (EGAD! half a foot of krausen!!!) It
was oozing over the lip onto the floor, which was by now quite messy. For
the first time EVER I skimmed in desperation, trying to reduce the foam. I
would take the krausen skimmings to the bathroom to dump them only to find
the level of foam back over the lip. I did this three times. I gave up.
I put my brew bucket on a clean plastic sheet and went to work.
Fermentation is all but finished now, a mere 20 hours after it began. Lots
of mess to clean up too.
Errrrr is this typical of this yeast? If so, and I decide to use this
variety of yeast again, I need to re-think my primary fermentation.
It smells GREAT tho. :)
Cheers!
Matthew.
http://fbox.vt.edu:10021/S/saunderm/index.html/page_1.html
http://dogstar.bevd.blacksburg.va.us
"Minds are like parachutes, they both need to be open to work."
------------------------------
From: "Gregg A. Howard" <102012.3350@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 08 Aug 96 22:21:35 EDT
Subject: white film, autolysis
Peter asked about a white film following oven treatment of bottles. I had a
somewhat similar experience with bottles in my (not especially clean) oven. The
irridescent film was from gunk vaporized from the walls and floor of the oven
and deposited on the glass. An overnight soak in a warm one tbsp/gal solution
of dishwasher powder removed it.
Al K's comment that he doesn't use a secondary for 90% of his beers leads me
to try to jump-start a thread that never really got going a few months ago; is
there any real benefit to be gained by racking to a secondary, other than
avoiding autolysis? My own experience leads me to believe that Miller,
Papazian, et al might just be blowing smoke when they warn against autolysis
setting in after a month or so in the primary. Has anyone actually had a batch
go south due to autolylisized yeast?
Gregg
Gregg A. Howard Denver, Co. 102012.3350@compuserve.com
------------------------------
From: "The People, Jones" <ltjones@ipa.net>
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 21:27:26 -0700
Subject: dry stouts again
I'm not sure if I am sending this leeter to the right address to be
published in the newsletter but it was the only one I colud find or
understand. If it is the wrong one would you please tell me the right
one?
Larry Jones
ltjones@ipa.net
About a week ago I sent the following message/question about trying to
avoid malty vanilla aftertastes in extract brewed stouts. I received some
nice replies in the digest newsletter but I forgot to add my E-mail
address as some pointed out. I'd like if possible to resubmit the
question with my address in order to receive replies and hopefully expose
my question one more time to those who may not have seen it the first
time.
Larry Jones
ltjones@ipa.net
I have been trying for about three and half years to brew a dry stout
that resembles the flavor of Beamish, Murphey's, or Guinness. They all
three have that very bitter dry roastd barley flavor. Many American
Micobrewed stouts have aftertastes of too much hops, too much malt, too
sweet etc. I realize that nitrogenated heads change the flavor in ales
but I have noticed that even in the Guinness and Beamish carbonated
bottle versions that there is a distinctively dryer flavor. In all my
attempts to homebrew such a stout I have usually been plagued by an
aftertaste that is too malty or vanilla like. Here is what I have tried
different after much advice to rememdy it still no success.
I have tried both dry yeast and the Wyeast 1084. I have used various
different stout kits and/or dark syrup malts. I have tried extra hopping
and less. with aromatic hops and without. I have brewed at lower
temperartures 65-70 degress too avoid ester fruit excessiveness. Longer
and shorter fermentation periods watching and ignoring O.G and T.G.
readings. In the various stout kits I have used Mount Mellick,
Laagerland, Munton and Fisson, Black Rock. Rock Miner, Edme, Glenbrew,
and John Bull hopped and unhopped extract. Still despite all this I get a
brew that when it is put in the secondary fermenter taste like a good
flat guinness or Beamish and especially right before bottling or piggy
kegging but after bottling there is that sweet or malty aftertaste. I am
careful about sanitation and have carbonated with too much, just right
and too little corn sugar. What can I do to avoid the malty vanilla
flavor? Some suggestions have been use only light extracts and get the
dark color and roast flaovr from the specialty grains (I generally use
about a pound of roast barely to a five gallon batch). The use of the
light extract some say may cut down on residual nonfermetable sugars and
other flavors left by dark extracts (how could a sugar not ferment with
good yeast?) Does anyone have a suggestion on how to make a full extract
brew that is free of the malty vanilla aftertaste? I know Guinnes uses 3%
sour additive but that doesn't explain Beamish or murphey's. Has anyone
noticed this flaovr problem with their stoput brewing? please either post
a reply or better yet E-mail with the solution. I only wish to brew a
stout or porter and one that is free of this aftertaste. I have done very
little brewing in the last year and may well stop as long as I keep
buying Guinness because I can't get close to it at homebrewing. Help
please.
Larry Jones
Ft. Smith, Arkansas
ltjones@ipa.net
------------------------------
From: hbienert@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Hank )
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:15:54 -0500
Subject: [none]
My son has returned from 2 years in China and to celebrate I'd like to brew
Tsingtao-any recipes?
------------------------------
From: ZXRF66A@prodigy.com (MR BILL STOUGHTON)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:33:38, -0500
Subject: Need drinkin' Santa clipart
- -- [ From: Bill Stoughton * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --
I just finished bottling my Christmas stout (used 6# of raspberries,
smells great!), and want to make an appropriate label. I need clipart
of Santa holding a mug, stein, pint, or similar drinking vessel. Color
or b&w is ok, any image format. Please e-mail as a file attachment, or
post to the alt.binaries.clip-art newsgroup.
I will send to everyone who supplies me with a brew drinkin' Santa my
entire collection of brewing related clipart. Unless you're on
Prodigy, please give me your snail-mail address so I can mail you a
diskette with your reward.
TIA,
Bill Stoughton
South Oak Brewery
Austin, TX
ZXRF66A@prodigy.com
Save the Ales
------------------------------
From: "Keith Royster" <keith.royster@ponyexpress.com>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 23:21:59 +0500
Subject: batch sparging / Gott cooler volume
I recently posted saying you should *always* leave an inch or so of
water on top of your grain bed when sparging, otherwise the grain
will collapse under its own weight and you'll get a stuck sparge.
To which Dion Hollenbeck responds...
> I "batch sparge" and have *never* had a stuck sparge. I almost
> completely drain the lauter tun of the first runnings before
> adding any sparge water.
Apparently I know less about the sparging process than I thought.
To be honest, I had never tried a batch sparge and was therefore not
speaking from experience as Dion obviously is. I simply thought I
was repeating a widely known "fact" of brewing. I apologize if I
have confused anyone and will try to refrain from such statements in
the future.
Dion also asks..
> Did you somehow misunderstand, Keith? Gott Cooler?? An 18# grain
> bill in *my* 10 gal Gott is 4" from the top. Where is there space
> for another 10#?? How far from the top was your 20# mash?
Me? Misunderstand? Never! I was obviously referring to *metric*
pounds ;)
Keith Royster - Keith.Royster@ponyexpress.com
@your.service - http://dezines.com/@your.service
Web Services - Starting at just $60 per YEAR!
Voice & Fax - (704) 663-1098
------------------------------
From: Dynamic_Don <" dpearson"@ghgcorp.com>
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 23:06:57 -0500
Subject: A specific question about SPECIFIC GRAVITY
OK, I think I understand what specific gravity is, but I have come across a
question that I
don't
seem to be able to solve...
"A Treatise on Lager & Beers" notes that 1 pound mass of dextrose (corn sugar)
equals 2 2/3
cups
[alternatively 1 cup weighs 6oz], and that 1 pound dextrose dissolved in 1
gallon water
gives a
specific gravity of 1.040.
The way I see it, 1 lbm of dextrose is 453.6 grams. 1 gallon of water is 3785
ml of
water,
weighing 3785 gm. So the total mass of the material is (453.6+3785)gm. The
volume of the
resulting solution is 3785 ml plus the volume added due to you putting the
dextrose in.
I've made a few measurements and found that 1/4 cup of dextrose increases the
water volume
by 20ml.
So 2 2/3 cups of dextrose should increase the water volume by 213 ml, and the
resulting
total
volume of solution is expected then to be about 3998 ml.
The density is then the mass/vol = 1.060, not 1.040 !!!
OK, what went wrong? The dextrose dissolving measurement of 20ml was carried
out at 26C,
close
enough to the 60F that I don't need to correct for temperature.
Please email replies to dpearson@ghgcorp.com -- mucho thanks-o for your
comments.
------------------------------
From: Derek Lyons <elde@hurricane.net>
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:09:09 -0700
Subject: Who Elected You?
" I hate to do this, and will keep it VERY short. PLEASE STOP USING
THIS FORUM FOR NON-BREWING ISSUES. This IS NOT the place for
discussing the policies of the GABF, BATF, or anybody else!
I have sent private E-mails to offenders, but new people keep doing
this, and I can't keep up! PLEASE STOP IT!
"
And just who elected *you* moderator of the digest?
The HBD is for disussing issues of interest to homebrewers. Sometimes that
wanders pretty far afield.
If you don't like it, UNSUBSCRIBE. Or hit PAGE DOWN.
But, never, never assume that *your* views and likes are the same as
everyone elses. Whatever you do, drop the arrogant 'I have sent private
emails', you are not the moderator of this digest. I wonder how many people
you have scared off.
------------------------------
From: gdouhan@mail.wsu.edu (Greg Douhan)
Date: Thu, 8 Aug 1996 22:51:40 -0700
Subject: [none]
I tink that Dave, Al, and the others at large involved in the
digest should take a week long vacation to get to know each other and stop
wasting space on the digest. Have you heard of private e-mail or is the ego
thing too much? You guys know a lot of info but the soap opera crap gets
old!! On the lighter note, and more to brewing, what's the scoop on wyeast
1728?
Greg Douhan
------------------------------
From: dbrigham@nsf.gov
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 96 08:16:21 EST
Subject: 5L mini-keg foam-a-rama
Greetings fellow brewers -
I own the 'fancy' 5L CO2/hand-pump tap sold by Williams Brewing
and I have been using 'garden variety' 5L mini-kegs sold at the
local homebrew shop to store just part of my last few batches.
Well I just recently tapped my first 5L mini-keg and it came out
*all* foam! Once the foam settled it was OK but a bit under
carbonated.
This particular beer recipe was an American style lager - light in
color/OG-SG with some rice in it. At bottling I first added 2/3
cup corn sugar to the 5 gallons and filled one 5L mini-keg and
sealed it, then I added another 1/3rd cup corn sugar (the sugar in
both cases having been disolved) to the remaining beer and bottled
the rest in 12 oz. bottles. Let everything sit at room temp for 1
week and then tested a few 12 oz. bottles - tasted great, nice
'spritzy' carbonation. Now the 5L mini-keg went on vacation from
my home (near Baltimore, MD) to the Outer Banks of N.C. - almost 8
hours in the car. I don't think it got *too* hot, I had the AC on
the whole darn way, but when we arrived I found the bottom of the
mini-keg pushed out by excess pressure, but no leaks. Popped the
mini-keg in the fridge for two days and then tapped it using the
CO2 cartridge thingy - foam, foam and more foam. Tasted fine once
you let the foam settle into beer, but it lacked alot of
carbonation at that point.
OK - too much corn sugar? Too much heat during the trip? Not
enough head space in the mini-keg (I left about 1/2 inch)?
All anecdotes/advice/discussion is eagerly welcomed - you can
email me directly at dbrigham@nsf.gov and I can post a summary to
the digest....
Thanx!!!
Dana Brigham
Central LAN Management
National Science Foundation
dbrigham@nsf.gov
------------------------------
From: "Sutton, Bob" <bob.sutton@fluordaniel.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 07:58:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Sanitizing Bottles in the Oven
>From: Steve Ensley <steve@globaldialog.com>
>Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 22:20:08 -0500 (CDT)
>I have occasionally seen comments about sanitizeing bottles by
>putting foil over the neck and stacking them in the oven and
heating
>them up. What is the procedure for this. Specifically how hot
and
>how long?
Steve,
I run my bottles at 350F for 2 hours, but without the foil caps.
Generally I use the Time Bake feature on my oven and run the
cycle
overnight. In the morning, I pull the bottles and cover the set
with
plastic (Saran) kitchen film. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Bob
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
Yesterday's Technology Today
------------------------------
From: Don Trotter <dtrotter@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 08:24:03 -0500
Subject: Re: Recipe requests
How many of us give up our recipes?
Seeing all the recipe requests in HBD doesn't make me feel well. Can't
any of the requesters develop their own recipes? It really isn't
difficult. A little light reading and a little light math, or a recipe
formulation program is all it takes.
I for one have given a few recipes away to strangers, but will give no more.
The beers I make are good -- all of my friends tell me so. Shoot,
Honorable mention and a First Place winners tell me so. I don't know
about you all, but I plan to enter many more competitions and would not
like to compete against myself, err, someone else using my recipe.
So, go ahead. Give it a try. Formulate you own. Remember what ol'
Charlie says, "Relax, ...." You'll never know until you try.
don
------------------------------
From: liquori@ACC.FAU.EDU
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 10:23:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: chocolate beer
First, thanks to everyone who responded to my queries on high gravity
Bitter, shipping homebrew (UPS here I come), and hop storage (a jar and
the freezer). Now if I could implore the help of the Collective once again:
I am interested in brewing with chocolate. I assume that chocolate will
only go well with a porter or stout. I want a brew that has a strong
chocolate flavor and aroma (not just a hint). So far I have diligently
searched my library and the Cat's Meow for an extract recipe using
chocolate. I only came across one (Paul's Chocolate Porter in Cats)
recipe so far (so it's not like I didn't try!) :-)
Anyway, does anyway have any good extract recipes using chocolate? Also,
I read in Papazian's _Home Brewer's Companion_ that cocoa powder can be
substituted for blocks of chocolate to avoid problems with cocoa butter.
Any experiences with this? Finally, Does anyone have any anecdotal
information or warnings before I get into this?
Thanks in advance...Kevin
liquori@acc.fau.edu
------------------------------
From: Michael Caprara <mcaprara@awwarf.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 08:46:32 -0600
Subject: Length of Responses
Hello fellow HBDers. I just had a thought, and hopefully I am not out of
line here. When responding to the HBD, there are a few of you that send
these enormous messages with many different subjects. Sometimes
there is only one subject that I wish to read and I have to scan a large
message to find what I am looking for. All I am asking is that everyone
try to send only one message per subject at a time.
Just my $.02 worth.
Brewfully Deadicated
MC :{P} Man I hate to scroll!
------------------------------
From: scox@factset.com (Sean Cox)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 10:45:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Yeast Mutations
Greetings all!
I keep reading a fair bit in the Digest about yeasts mutating after
n generations (where n varies widely). What keeps bothering me about this
is that the yeasts we have today are thousands of generations removed from
the "first yeast" used to brew, and hundreds of generations removed from
the first isolated strains, yet they're still useful to us.
My thoughts on this (obvious?) paradox is that the yeasts mutate more
in the homebrew environment (today a porter, tomorrow a pale ale, etc) than
in the commercial environment (always making the same thing). Perhaps this
is due to the yeasts (Darwinian) mutations to the current brew, i.e. they
adapt to the conditions of the beer they're in, and when moved to a different
environment, some of their mutations are no longer userful but might in fact
be hinderances. Thus, if you make a particular brew all the time, then you
would likely not have to worry about mutations of the 50th generation of your
beer, but if you (like most homebrewers) make everything under the sun, then
your poor little yeasties are going to have real problems after a while.
My question to the collective is: Is this correct? Close enough?
I'm not a microbiologist (as you can probably tell :) but it would seem to
me that a single-strain/single-brew arrangement should last indefinately if
the yeast take a liking to it (and you like how they ferment).
--Sean
_______________________________________________________
Sean Cox, Systems Engineer FactSet Research Systems
scox@factset.com Greenwich, CT
------------------------------
From: Michael Mahler <mmahler@shiva.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:19:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Recent batch - want opinions on changing
Here's the recipe:
1 4lb can of Candian Ale Ironmaster kit
2 lbs Wheat LME (Ireks, left over from weizen brew)
1/2 oz Cascade boil (4.3% alpha)
1/2 oz Cascade 15 minutes
1/2 oz Cascade 5 minutes (flame off after 1 minute in wort then steeped)
1/2 pound crystal (70 lovibond) male in seperate 1/2 hour 160 steeping
the water added to full boil
1/2 tsp Moss last 15 minutes
Wyeast 1056 (American)
Just before bottling:
2 pounds Strawberries into blender, then into 1 quart of boiling water
then cooled and added to brew. Fermentation went on for 2 WEEKS after
that addition!
Bottled:
Used 1 cup clover honey added to 1 quart of boiled and covered water
and let stand overnight with bottling next morning.
Actually, it tastes very nice - however you can't detect any strawberry
aroma, but just a slight bit of taste (not enough). I assume I needed
more since these were fresh ones (though overripe).
The brew has a bitter aftertaste in the back of the throat/tongue.
Almost like you'd get from a stout. Did I overhop? Is it from the kit?
If you were to replace the canadian kit with LME and hops, what would
you use (I want to try this brew again). Also, the aroma is not as
hoppy as I would like and is almost too "yeasty" (best I can describe),
though this beer sat in the secondary for 1 month before adding the
strawberries (and bringing the beasts back to life)...
Anyway, it still tastes pretty nice after 3 weeks in the bottle!
------------------------------
From: Kelly Jones <kejones@ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 09:44:26 -0700
Subject: GABF getting more expensive
Attending the annual Great American Beer Fest has, for a long time, been
the high point of the 'beer year' for me. Although it's never been run
very well (crowded hall, insufficient restrooms, long lines for beer, or
to get in (or out of) the building, etc.), who could resist the
opportunity to sample close to 1500 beers from 400-500 of America's
finest craft brewers?
One of the best parts of the Fest has been the Member's Only Tasting
conducted on Saturday afternoon. For years, this has been an
opportunity for AHA/IBS members to sample some of the festival's beers
in a more relaxed atmosphere. This is the only session where you can
get a sample without unreasonable waits in line, have a little elbow
room in the festival hall, and get to talk to some of the brewers. In
years past, this session has been free to members (and one guest) who
purchased a ticket to one of the GABF 'regular' sessions.
Well, the 'non-profit' AOB, apparently sensing that an opportunity to
make lots of money from their paid membership was slipping through their
fingers, decided to do away with the free Member's Only Tasting. This
year, members of the AHA or IBS who would like to attend the Member's
only tasting will have to pay $30 to get themselves and a guest in the
door.
It's really a shame that the AOB felt the need to try and squeeze a few
more dollars out of their membership. For 6 years now, the GABF has
been a 'don't miss' event for me. Although it's too late for me to get
out of it this year (already have plane tickets), I'm going to think
long and hard about whether this event will continue to be on my agenda.
While I'm in rant mode, I have a question about 'designated drivers'
tickets. At many festivals I have attended, the use of designated
drivers is encouraged: Those who attend as non-drinkers get free
admission, and free soft drinks to boot. The GABF, on the other hand,
seems to try and discourage designated drivers. Designated drivers are
charged $15 admission, for which they receive absolutely nothing in
exchange, except for the opportunity to, uh, stand around and watch
other people drink. No soft drinks. No tee-shirt. No commemorative
mug. What are people's experiences with other festivals? Is anything
done to encourage designated drivers?
Kelly
------------------------------
From: "Decker, Robin E." <robind@rmtgvl.rmtinc.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 96 12:52:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Beer & Food
Dave writes:
>...I thought if I could incorporate the beer with the food, then I would
really have something!
Good thinking, Dave! I'm not going to refer you to the books here, because
that's been covered before. Just keep in mind that any recipe that calls
for water, can usually take broth, wine, or beer as a substitute. You just
have to use your head, you wouldn't put chicken broth in a beef stew, for
example. I have a very basic rule for trying beer in recipes....I start out
by matching the recipe & the beer's country of origin. I also believe that
you should serve the same style of beer (not necessarily the same brand)
used in the dish WITH the dish (Just MHO).
Those beer braised brats you mentioned are yummy! I usually use a dark beer
here, with lots of sliced onions in the pan with the brats. Serve over egg
noodles that have been sprinkled with poppy seeds. (German food, German
beer).
Marinate steaks in beer or in leftover wort. I prefer stouts & porters for
this, but my husband will use any leftover wort. You can dress it up with
pepper, garlic, or whatever strikes your mood, but plain works just as well.
BTW, your pale ale will make a wonderful steaming liquid for shellfish.
Has anyone ever noticed how well a nut brown ale complements a perfectly
ripe brie? Divine!
The only hard and fast rule here is the same as when using wine: If you
wouldn't drink it, you shouldn't cook with it!
Goldings
"I have to get off this planet"
------------------------------
From: Narvaez Ronald <RNarvaez@phs.org>
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:51:00 -0600
Subject: Zip City Lager
I was wondering if anybody has heard of this beer. The full name on the
label was " Zip City Lager, Zip City Lager Brewing company Vienna" I am
intrested in getting a bottle of the beer for two reasons. 1) I want to
try it, 2) I collect bottles and the beer is bottled in a cool bottle.
If anyone knows where I can get this beer please let me know.
Thanks
Ron Narvaez
------------------------------
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac)
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:53 -0600
Subject: lactobacillus delbrueckii
collective homebrew conscience:
i'm not sure that i qualify as a yeast geek, but i have read michael jackson's
"the new world guide to beer" and "beer companion", and i think the answers
to the delbrueckii questions are in there, if i recall correctly.
peter wrote:
>I was wondering if any yeast geeks out there could help
>me with a terminology question. I have been told that the yeast species
>Saccharomyces delbrueckii is the type typically used for fermenting of
>Bavarian wheat beers.
i think michael jackson writes that the yeast used for SOUTH german
weizenbiers has no taxonomic designation at weihenstephan. it's just
referred to as a weizen yeast. this seems odd.
>Others have claimed that there is no such species as Saccharomyces
>delbrueckii but that there is a species named Lactobacillus delbrueckii
>which is used in fermentation of Berliner Weisse beer.
>Which is it?
this is a bacteria, and it is used in berliner weisse during fermentation.
this bacteria is NOT used in south german style weizenbiers in the same
manner as it used in berliner weisse. it is utilized by some south german
weizenbier brewers in the mashing, when a reduction in pH is desired. greg
noonan is a big proponent of sour mashing, and has written about it in zymurgy
and his lager books. i have brewed a weizenbier using this method and it
turned out pretty good, so i am now also an enthusiastic practitioner of sour
mashing, for styles that have traditionally utilized it (including pilsner).
there is an excellent article on sour mashing by mr noonan in a back issue
of zymurgy if this has peaked anybody's interest. i think it was one of the
special annual issues, maybe 1992?
>German scientist named Max Delbrueck. What is his relationship to the
>German immigrant and Cal Tech Nobel laureate Max Delbrueck?
if memory serves (gotta bring those books to work, NOT!), they are related,
according to his eminence, michael j. can't remember exactly how.
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
From: Tortelooni@aol.com
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 13:26:59 -0400
Subject: Re: Receiving Homebrew Digest
Hi-
I am interested in receiving your newsletters/posed questions etc., as I am
an avid homebrewer. A friend of mine recently tried to forward your last
"edition" to me but I am having trouble reading it. Please advise.... :-)
Yours, Tortelooni@aol.com
------------------------------
From: William D Gladden <W_GLADDEN@Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 13:08:56 -0500
Subject: 5L Minikeg Summary
I asked for recommendations on 5L minikeg taps and got many
responses (Thanks). The responses fit 2 catagories.
1) About half of the replies said they worked pretty well if used
properly. Recommend 16 (mg?) size cartridge for dispensing.
the other half
2) Frustrated with them (1 to the point of returning to bottling
... YIKES!). Problems seemed to be mostly (if not all) pressure
related (i.e. bulging/exploding minikegs, excessive foaming,
can't control the amount of CO2 from the cartridge, etc...).
The main reason for this post is to share the advice of richard
scholz who wrote (I don't have a reader so no >> but this is
retyped directly from his post).
"St. Pats (Austin TX, no afil, blah blah) has a little device
called "the carbonator" that originally was meant for the top of
2liter soda bottles, but fits the 5L kegs perfectly, this allows
you to use a tank of CO2 (much cheaper in the long run) to
connect to the kegs for quick carbonation or dispensing. It has
threads on one end and a ball lock pressure fitting on the other.
For the cost of the metal tap/CO2 bulbs you can go to full size
CO2 tank."
(end of quote)
I haven't tried this, but it seems like one helluva solution ...
functional and simple ... I just had to share with you all.
Since CO2 tanks work off of regulators this may help some of you
5L minikeggers who are frustrated with their performance.
Cheers,
Bill Gladden
------------------------------
From: William D Gladden <W_GLADDEN@Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US>
Date: Fri, 09 Aug 1996 13:19:14 -0500
Subject: HBD 2138
Since I ask you all lots of questions, time to try to answer one
online. Kinda long, but at least its about beer :-) In HBD 2138
<Hettsmac@AOL.COM> writes about using blackberrys to make a fruit
beer that:
1) Is not too sour; and,
2) Does not tie up the equipment too long.
I've brewed 1 batch of fruit beer with very sour cherries that
came out very well so now I'm an expert :-) If you really want
to do a Lambic ... scroll down ... this is for an ale. An ale
should not tie up the equipment too long. Plus aren't Lambic's
*sour* by style definition?
Main points:
1) "Sweetness" in beer comes primarily from residual sugars that
are not fermented (due to grains, mashing schedule and/or yeast
strain). I partial mash ... so I used Laaglander Dry Malt
Extract for the extract part of the wort concoction (known far
and wide for having more nonfermentables in it than most, if not
all extracts dry malt extracts). Also, I used 1 pound of U.S.
Crystal Malt ... steeped (with other grains) at 165 for 30
minutes then sparged and added to boil. Crystal Malt is not
fermentable and US Crystal is (IMHO) kinda on the sweet side so
it worked well for the purpose of balancing out the sourness (as
well as body etc...).
If your into all grain, I'd still use some crystal and refer back
to recent HBD's where, if I remember correctly (a 50-50
proposition) there was discussion and agreement? on the
temperature of the mash and its impact on the final beer as
related to fermentables v. unfermentables. I think (there I go
again) that it was mashing at a lower temp => more unfermentables
in the final wort. Don't take my word for that though.
2) The Yeast. I'd go with an ale yeast. The last two batches
of ale I have used Yeast Lab (hey ... it was on sale!). 1st one
was the German Ale...it *definately* accentuated the malt flavor
- -- you may want to use this yeast as the malt accent would take
the edge off of the sourness of the fruit. For my Cherry Ale I
used the Londen Ale Yeast because I wanted the cherry flavor to
blend with this "fruity" yeast for a veritable cornucopia of
flavor sensations. And loe and behold it did!
3) Fruit: Of course probably most important is how sour the
fruit is to begin with. Also time of fruit addition is a key
factor.
I steeped the cherries for 15-20 minutes in the wort after I
finished boiling (1 hour and 15 minutes) and kept them in the
primary for 2 weeks ... fermentation seemed to have stopped and I
racked to a secondary. I figure steeping the cherries pasturized
the fruit which I wanted to do.
I've heard that adding fruit to the secondary makes the fruit
flavor much more prominent than adding the fruit in the primary.
It has been said that adding the fruit for primary fermentation
results in a beer that isn't as fruity as some brewers have
desired (something along the lines of when you smell all that
wonderful fruit bouquet coming out of the fermentation lock it is
also taking that flavor with it).
Anyway ... I added 80% of the fruit I had frozen in the primary
and held back the other 20% just in case I wanted to "beef up the
fruit flavor" by adding it somehow to the secondary (either
directly ... or steeping it/pasturizing it - and adding the
strained liquid to the secondary). I figured it is easier to add
more (at the secondary stage) than lessen the sourness later.
Hops. Not too relevant to getting a good sweet/sour balance but
I'd highly recommend those Noble types ... I used German Trad.
Hallertau whole.
There are so many variables (fruit, grains, yeast, time of
addition of fruit) that it really is a crap shoot but you can
increase your odds of success by considering the above. That's
the main info. I learned from reading up on it and giving it a
whirl.
I am ecstatic with how mine came out. Hope you are with yours.
Cheers,
Bill Gladden
<W_GLADDEN@MAil.Co.Chester.PA.US>
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2140
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