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HOMEBREW Digest #2121
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/07/23 PDT
Homebrew Digest Wednesday, 24 July 1996 Number 2121
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Indoor propane ("Gregory, Guy J.")
What's the use of HDB? ((Alan McKay))
Hole in the Gott ((Chuck Wettergreen ))
Fruit Beers, Cider and Mead, and Entire ("David R. Burley")
O2 Tanks / HBD Gets a Life (KennyEddy@aol.com)
Made in the Shade IV (Homebrew Competition) ((Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist))
Re: microbreweries in Atlanta ("Michel J. Brown")
Re: Questions to improve my beer (what else?) (AJN)
Small Batches (mikehu@lmc.com)
Protein size ((John W. Carpenter))
Travelling ("Ed J. Basgall")
Ground Ivy beer....continued (Vincent A Voelz (Vincent Voelz))
excessive crystal (korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com)
Conical Fermenters (Kyle R Roberson)
HBD jr. (Maestro)
Rodenbach and acids II (Jim Liddil)
Oxygen Debate (cgoll@PICA.ARMY.MIL)
infected brew?/recipe/Weisbrod and Hess (Larry N. Lowe)
Spent grains in bread (Kevin Kane)
Re: Large fermenters - ceramic crocks (David Cummings)
Travelling - New Knoxville Brewing Co. ((Smith Family))
Re: Catalogues ((Smith Family))
Potatoes (Delano Dugarm)
Errant messages (m.bryson2@genie.com)
O2 Grades/Seibolt Inst. (Jim Nasiatka-Wylde)
Oxygen Grades/Pitching Temps/Hazelnut Extract/Decoction/Wheeler (Rob Moline)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461@eroerm1.ecy.wa.gov>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 96 09:10:00 PDT
Subject: Indoor propane
motten@fcmc.com ([Michael Otten]) asks:
>I am currently in the planning stage of creating a Brauhaus in my basement.
... my concern right now is safety. I have heard all the warnings about not
using propane cookers indoors, but are there any which are safe for indoor
use (other sources of heat are currently unavailable) ? If not, does anyone
know of exhaust fans or the like which are effective in reducing Carbon
Monoxide and other fumes which would be hazardous to me or my
family? On the topic of Carbon Monoxide, are there any recommendations
for CO detectors? Are there any other suggestions from others who
have made an indoor system? <
Mike: Serious. The concern about Propane is not CO. It is the propane
itself. Propane is heavier than air. It will sink and collect in drains,
low spots in your basement, underneath your furnace or hot water heater.
From leaks in your system or incomplete combustion, when enough can collect
to exceed the lower explosive limit.... well, boom.
Me, I don't think there is a fan or detector made which could let me sleep
at night.
Boats don't use propane unless the tanks and fittings are vented to the
exterior without going to the living quarters. They use CNG or alcohol,
both fairly low BTU fuels, I think. As I am just a bit above ignorant on
this, my advice is before you do this, contact a serious HVAC guy.
Guy Gregory
GuyG4@aol.com
------------------------------
From: alan.mckay@acadiau.ca (Alan McKay)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:26:45 -0300 (ADT)
Subject: What's the use of HDB?
I don't mean to be the devil's advocate, but is there any real reason
why HBD even exists anymore? Personally, I'd much rather read all this
stuff in a newsgroup where it is far, far easier to follow threads
and so on. Getting a big long text file like this is an real pain in
the butt. What use does this mailing list serve that cannot be
served by rec.crafts.brewing?
Again, I don't mean to be a trub disturber, I'm just curious.
My guess is that this mailing list began before the days of newsgroups,
and still hasn't died out yet. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Surely there has to be a *much* better way to do this nowadays.
- -Alan
- --
5 out of 6 macho men prefer Russian roulette
http://www.acadiau.ca/cc/alan/
------------------------------
From: chuckmw@mcs.com (Chuck Wettergreen )
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 96 12:04 CDT
Subject: Hole in the Gott
To: homebrew@aob.org
In HBD 2112 "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu> wrote:
HH> I'm suprised Phil (TM) or no one has come up with a commercial
HH> solution the the hole in the cooler. There is certainly a market
HH> for something...
Here's my solution to the hole in the Gott:
How to make a bulkhead penetration in a Gott cooler
Materials needed:
(1) 3/8"OD brass close nipple
(2) rubber garden hose washers
(2) 3/8"ID stainless steel washers
(2) 3/8"ID X 1/2"OD brass reducers
Proceedure:
1. Remove the installed spigot from the Gott cooler
by loosening the plastic nut inside. Also remove
the rubber washer.
2. Assemble the parts above in the following order on
the close nipple:
3/8"ID X 1/2"OD brass reducer
3/8"ID stainless steel washer
rubber garden hose washer
wall of Gott cooler
rubber garden hose washer
3/8"ID stainless steel washer
3/8"ID X 1/2"OD brass reducer
3. Tighten the reducers until you get a snug fit. This will make
the fitting water-tight.
With this assembled you can attach a standard brass or
stainless 1/2" ball valve to the outside, and a 1/2" copper
threaded-to-braze fitting on the inside, to which you can
attach your copper manifold. This method does not invalidate
the (excellent) standard 6-year Gott warranty (no cutting).
Cheers,
Chuck
chuckmw@mcs.com
Geneva, IL
* RM 1.3 00946 *
------------------------------
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 23 Jul 96 13:11:54 EDT
Subject: Fruit Beers, Cider and Mead, and Entire
Brewsters:
Todd Kirby asks about those fruit flavorings seen at homebrew shops for use in
beer brewing.
I ask Todd, why not use the real stuff? There are more and better fruits
available in your supermarket's fruit section and in the frozen fruit section
than you will probably ever use. If that doesn't suit you, how about canned
fruits? Just stay away from those fruits prepared with the baker in mind, since
most have added thickeners. Make sure no preservatives have been added.
Most fruits have pectin, so I treat them with pectic enzyme before I use them.
Raising the temperature to just under boiling in the presence of metabisulfite
will destroy this enzyme and prevent any problems which may arise when the
fruit
is used in the beer. (I don't know of any, but with something that can destroy
a carbohydrate like pectin may do something to the soluble beer carbohydrates)
I always sterilize fruits in some fashion either by gentle cooking or with
metabisulfite ( 75 ppm), depending on the fruit. Metabisulfite, being the
active
ingredient in "Fruit fresh" will prevent browning so I use it in most cases.
Mild cooking or freezing the fresh fruit is a good way to maximize the flavor
extracted in most cases, unless it destroys the flavor you are after. Frozen
fruit offers the advantage of better extraction since the cell walls have been
ruptured by freezing. You should consider doing a little "wine" using beer
yeast
with your fruit and filtering out the pulp after the essence of the fruit has
been extracted and before pouring it into your beer. This also offers you the
opportunity to adjust the amount of fruit to taste, rather than guess. This
"wine" method also allows you to avoid the biggest problem with fruit beers
- -getting the beer out of the fermenter without plugging up your racking cane
with spent fruit pulp. For filtering the pulp out of the wine, since you don't
have enough to press in a wine press, I have resorted, at various times, to a
cloth bag, a kitchen strainer and in recalcitrant cases a coffee filter in a
kitchen strainer for a second filter following a rough filter. If you want to
put the fruit in directly, than cover the lower end of your racking cane with a
Copper or Stainless Steel Chore Boy (R) soapless scrubber. This will provide
you the opportunity to reduce the problems with plugged racking canes and allow
you to use the fruit straight, which I don't recommend.
I have to admit I have tasted some pretty horrible American Weiss Beers with
various fruits added. The biggest problem with them and with some extracts is
the oxidation and subsequent browning reaction of the enzymes in the fruit. The
beers end up tasting like a very bad, thin sherry. The second biggest problem
is they are too light on the fruit. If you are going to have a fruit flavored
beer it should taste like something besides watered down soda pop.
I think your idea to go to a dark beer for the background taste and lightened
up
by a bright fruit is correct. A good Cherry Porter sounds excellent to me. How
about a fake Belgian using bananas. Or maybe something really peachy? Like a
peach flavored brown ale. In the canned fruit area during the winter, some
waggy
enthusiast might even suggest fruit coctail lager, but I wouldn't try it,
someone might argue about who gets the cherry.
Another neat thing about using fresh fruits as they come into season is that it
is a way to celebrate each new crop and remember it when you drink the beer
later on.
- ------------------------------------------------------------
Jorge Blasig wants to start his home brewing career via mead and cider
production, because of the time and import problems with beer products.
Jorge, unless there is distinct law forbidding the import of these goods, e.g.
Saudi Arabia, usually they can be imported under food products. Also, most of
our mail-order houses use UPS for export, so they are very familiar with
specific laws of each country and they will know about your laws. If there is a
United Parcel Service or DHL office in your country give them a call or have
your supplier check it for you.
Since honey, fruit juices and apple juice are natural products, the sugar
content can vary. Rather than providing you with a recipe, I recommend that you
determine the sugar content by diluting the honey by a known amount and
measuring the specific gravity using a hydrometer. If one is not readily
available, but a good balance and volume measuring equipment is, determine the
density by weighing a known volume of this solution to determine the weight of
sugar in the honey. Honey in anything will take it longer to mellow than with
sugar.
Likewise the apple juice. Unless you want to make an apple wine by adding
sugar, cider will naturally ferment by itself and you don't really need to
measure the SG. However, I suggest a dose of 50 ppm metabisulfite followed a
few hours later by a yeast of your choice, if you wish. This amount of
metabisulfite will delay the browning reaction and bacteria until the yeast can
take over. If you can, be at the cider mill when they press and treat the apple
juice immediately. This may not have the tanginess of the acetic acid you are
used to, so I suggest you also ferment a gallon or so of cider naturally and
blend it to taste. Find out which apples are being pressed, I guarantee you the
variety of taste from various apples is amazing. Some I like, some I hate.
For other fruit, use the same basic procedure, measure the fruit juice SG,
determine the amount of sugar or honey needed to bring it to the desired
alcohol
content and rip on.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I read Wheeler's comment about the people of London inventing Porter, I
understood it to mean the concept of blending stale and new beer. I believe
Harwood is properly credited elsewhere with introducing "Entire". I guess it
was
called this because it contained everything a drinker could want in that it was
a preblend of stale and new beer. And responsible for that spoiled taste I
sometimes get with Guiness from the tap. Entire was later called Porter either
because it was popular in the Porterhouse or as some have said because it was
ported out of London. I favor the Porterhouse version, just because I like
those steaks. Skeptic that I am, I would credit the publicans with inventing
Porter by blending off their spoiled beer. It just so happened that Mikey liked
it! And a new industry was born.
I had the same feeling as AlK about the comments on the origin of Rodenbach,
unless Wheeler is talking about the concept of blending old and new beer, which
Belgians do all the time aka Gueuze and many others.
Maybe it isn't so much poor research as sloppy writing and a desire to give a
different perspective. The latter of which I think is fine unless it is
misleading, as these comments can be. Nevertheless, I do like articles like
this once in a while to spur us on.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:50:02 -0400
Subject: O2 Tanks / HBD Gets a Life
On O2 for aerating: If one were to use the old Bernzomatic (sp?) cannisters
availalble at the Home Square Depot Base, what's the best way to attach to
the threaded mouth? Is there some kind of generic valve fitting? Or would
you have to modify a torch head?
*****************
Check it out:
> From: majordomo@aob.org
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 96 16:10:24 GMT
> Subject: Welcome to homebrew-digest
>
> - - --
>
> Welcome to the homebrew-digest mailing list!
>
> If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
<<snip>>
Wow, it appears that the HBD has subscribed to *itself*! History in the
making, folks.
*******
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
From: homebrew@infomagic.com (Jeff Handley & Gene Almquist)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 11:01:04 -0700
Subject: Made in the Shade IV (Homebrew Competition)
Greetings to all:
On August 17, 1996 there will be an AHA sanctioned homebrew contest held
here in Flagstaff, AZ. If anyone would like to enter their prized homebrews
please E-Mail us directly: outpost@homebrewers.com and we will send via
e-mail(in a MS Word format) all the necessary information. Entries must be
sent between Aug 7th-Aug 14th. If you happen to be in Flagstaff or Arizona
at that time you may want to come to the festival. It's a real blast.
Thanks, Jeff Handley
********************************************
* Jeff Handley***outpost@homebrewers.com *
* Homebrewers Outpost-Flagstaff, Arizona *
* http://www.homebrewers.com *
* *
* Homer: "Thanks for coming to my party. *
* Wow, you brought a whole beer keg!" *
* Barney: "Yeah. Where can I fill it up?" *
********************************************
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Michel J. Brown" <mjbrown@teleport.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 11:09:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: microbreweries in Atlanta
At 02:30 PM 7/18/96 -0700, Neil Oakden wrote:
>There's a web page called the "Real Beer Page" that has the ability to do
>a nationwide brew pub search. Choose the "Brew Tour" option from the
>main page, enter some info, and you should get a fairly decent list of
>breweries in Atlanta.
>
>URL is:
>http://www.realbeer.com
>
>Hope this helps!
>
>Regards-
>Neil Oakden
>Shaw AFB, SC
>
Thanks, Neil, I'll do that. Guess I must've missed it when I was last on the
web. Oh, well, at least they *have* real beer in Atlanta! God Bless, ILBCNU!
Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C.
mjbrown@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~mjbrown
Brewer, Patriot, Physician, Husband, and Father
------------------------------
From: AJN <neitzkea@frc.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:43:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Questions to improve my beer (what else?)
Thanks to all those who responded (both publicly and privately) to my
questions of:
<<<<
A. When cooling the wort, what should be the final tempature before adding
it to the carboy?
B. Can I use dry yeast and hydrate it pryor to pitching, or do I have to
buy "smack packs"?
>>>>
The general consensus is to cool the wort to fermentation temp, i.e.
about 68 degrees for a ale and about 55 degrees for a lager.
And most everyone thought liquid yeast is best, but one peasrson thought
that dry yeast is getting a bad reputation from years ago, when the
quality wasn't as good as it is now.
Lastly, most responses added, that full wort boils will make a large
differance in the taste and quality of my brew.
Thanks again
------------------------------
From: mikehu@lmc.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 96 11:23:03 PDT
Subject: Small Batches
Dan Cole Writes:
>Currently, I'm doing 2.5 - 3 gallon extract batches; 5 gallons is too much.
>Right now, I'm using a standard 6.5 gallon plastic bucket for a primary and
>then racking to a 3-gallon glass carboy for secondary fermentation. ...but
>I know that the additional "head space" (or more specifically, the oxygen in
>the headspace) in the bucket must be hurting my beer.
Dan - Don't Worry! Your beer is fine. As the beer ferments, it is creating a
protective layer of CO2 (which is heaver than air) directly on top of itself.
Isn't it neat how higher life forms (such as beer) have a way of looking out
for themselves?
Mike H.
Creating Life in Portland, OR
------------------------------
From: jwc@med.unc.edu (John W. Carpenter)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 96 14:25:40 EDT
Subject: Protein size
In HBD 2119, George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro) writes:
> The June 27, 1996 issue of NATURE (p.738) reports that the "largest
> proteins in nature occur in wheat flower...these wheat gluten polymers
> [have] relative molecular masses ranging up into the tens of
> millions."
Fascinatig! Does anyone know what the size of a protein with this molecular
weight might be? 0.5, 1, 5, 10 microns? On the same subject, does anyone know
what the molecular weight cutoff would be for the different pore sizes? In
other words, what is the larges size protein that could pass through a 5
micron filter? (Assuming the protein are globular.)
> Sorry if this bored folks. I bet Tracy liked it!
I can't speak for Tracy, but I liked it.
John Carpenter, jwc@med.unc.edu
Chapel Hill, NC
------------------------------
From: "Ed J. Basgall" <edb@chem.psu.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 96 11:22:45 EDT
Subject: Travelling
There is a small microbrewery in Deerfield, MA. Deerfield in Western MA
Just north of Amherst. They have a friendly laid back crew and do open
fermentation. The micro is called the Berkshire Brewing Company and they
make some nice brews and give short tours.
Ed Basgall
Penn State Univ
Dept of Chem
------------------------------
From: Vincent A Voelz <voel0009@gold.tc.umn.edu> (Vincent Voelz)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 96 13:42:40 -0500
Subject: Ground Ivy beer....continued
Last night I just brewed the English Ale (some light extract w/ crystal and
brown specialty grains for color) with 1 oz. creeping Charlie (a.k.a.
Ground Ivy) -- which is essentially a lawn weed -- instead of hops as the
bittering agent. If this sounds interesting, check out my post "Ground Ivy
instead of Hops" in r.c.b and in HBD #2114 (I think).
We slurped a bit of the beer out of the hydrometer as we were waiting for
it to cool; the taste was somewhat vegetable, but definitely bitter and
minty. Some of us reported a stingy/numbing sensation after tasting it,
which I think is the bittering component (whatever THAT is). Still, I
would like to find out the toxicity of the plant, as well as determine
whether or not allergic reactions to the plant are possible/probable. Any
info/references/etc. would be appreciated.
This is brewing on the edge, dude!
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 96 14:04:52 CDT
Subject: excessive crystal
Mike writes:
> My question is: why is 20% crystal malt excessive?
>
> I usually use about one pound of a combination of crystal malts along
>with 6 pounds of base malt (apx. 14% crystal). Is this too much? Does it make
>a difference *which* types of crystal malt you use? i.e., carapils vs. 120L
>English crystal?
In my experience 16% (40L) crystal is about the max that makes "normal-
tasting" bitter. If you exceed it with lighter crystal malts (Carapils,
etc.) you are just going to have a little extra dextrin in your beer (not
really a problem). If you exceed it with darker crystal malts like the
60L proposed in the recipe the beer will be very caramelly and can even have
a bite from the crystal. Typical bitter recipes use 0 to 15% crystal
with most being 3 to 10%. There are some milds that have very high
levels of crystal malt (20 to 30% even!), but frankly my favourite bitter
(Timothy Taylor Landlord) has NO crystal in it (100% pale ale malt).
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
From: Kyle R Roberson <roberson@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 12:27:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Conical Fermenters
This is a short followup to a post I made a few weeks
ago in response to a posting describing trouble getting
clear beer out of the bottom of a "homemade" cylindrical-
conical fermenter. I just spent a week observing and
somewhat working in a brewery that used commercial versions
of these tanks. Here is a thumbnail sketch of how they
used them.
After primary fermentation is over, the yeast at the very
bottom of the tank is sewered. Then the hose is connected
to the new tank for that days brew and a charge of yeast
pumped over. At this point, the first tank is charged with
finings if they are used and the second tank is filled with
wort from the brew house. The first tank is now (or after
the finings have settled) racked to the bright beer
tank from a valve just under the manway and above
the cone. This goes through a filter and is still pretty yeasty,
but is nothing like what came out of the bottom. When the tank
is emptied to this valve, then the bottom valve is purged to the
sewer until it is more beer than yeast. This hose is now connected
to the filter to try to recover as much beer as possible before
the filter plugs.
My impression is that these tanks would not work very well with
only a bottom valve.
Kyle
------------------------------
From: Maestro <krusemje@martin.luther.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:43:53 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: HBD jr.
Hey Fellow Brewsters,
I returned to college this week and found 138 HBD isssues in my electronic
mail box. What a pleasantry!! I haven't had time to read all of my back
issues but I caught a little of the NOKO ONO junk, which is really
disturbing for the complete novice like myself. I would like to feel
more comfortable in asking bonehead questions. I enjoy reading the
digest and love experiencing the glory of the knowledge that it protrudes
twice daily, but to be honest 80% of it gets filed in "What-d-Heck!"
I know that many of you are serious conscientious lovable brew-daddies
that participate for the love of beer. But the future of beer is with me
and those like me with young minds and ambitious palattes. Even older
guys making their first pilgrimage to better can contribute something.
But we need guidance and sponsorship. Maybe a novice version of HBD is
in order (HBDjr). Those who care may participate in both forums. Those
of us new to brewing want to be appreciated and encouraged without
bothering the "pros" and inflicting "page-down" syndrome on the HBD.
Would anyone be able or willing to begin a juniour affiliate?
Jesse Krusemark
Luther College
Decorah, IA 52101
krusemje@martin.luther.edu
R.R.1 Box 160
Griggsville, IL 62340
------------------------------
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL@AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:36:21 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Rodenbach and acids II
As a further followup on Rodenbach and acids the flavor threshold for
acetic acid is about 300 ppm and for Lactic acid about 400 ppm. Ref: Picket
et. al. J Inst Brewing 1967 (82) pp 233.
Jim
http://radon.gas.uug.arizona.edu:80/~jliddil/
------------------------------
From: cgoll@PICA.ARMY.MIL
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:56:26 -0400
Subject: Oxygen Debate
Forgive me if I'm wrong, John Cheek, but doesn't Liquid Bread sell the
Oxygenator system???
Maybe competition is the contaminant in industrial grade O2?
Chris Goll
cgoll@pica.army.mil
------------------------------
From: Larry N. Lowe <lnl@awips1.abrfc.noaa.gov>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:34:51 CDT
Subject: infected brew?/recipe/Weisbrod and Hess
first question: i brewed a bass clone...or at least i had hoped. i tried the
second one last night...no better than the first. i am thinking it is infected
and no, i am not prepared to dump it yet. my SO tried it and she described it
as having an "ashy" flavor to it. it is bitter, but the hops i added were not
that much...my recipe is at home. i believe it was 1 1/2 ounces of Northern
Brewer (plus or minus a 1/2 an ounce) and an ounce of Willamette. is this
"ashy" taste something associated with either of these...will giving it
time help to mellow the flavor? i am not dumping yet, but i am wondering
IMBR?
second question: i recently tried a Boulevard Wheat and UMM..UMM GOOD. does
anyone have a recipe for this or thier pale ale? BTW, it is from a microbrew in
KC (Jethro Gump?)
and last: thinks to Brian Cornelius for answering my question on Weisbrod and
Hess Brewery...BTW, it was located in *Porter* township in Pike county.
- --
from: Larry N. Lowe, HAS Forecaster ?
lnl@apwk01g3.abrfc.noaa.gov \\\|///
http://info.abrfc.noaa.gov (o) (o)
Off: (918)832-4109 FAX: (918)832-4101 _____oOOO__(_)__OOOo_____
------------------------------
From: Kevin Kane <kkane@uidaho.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 15:45:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Spent grains in bread
I remember a thread in the HBD about using spent grains in bread. Having
tried some at the Hale's brewery in Seattle (yum!), I'm interested in
diverting my spent grains from the compost pile to the dough mixer. If
anyone remembers the HBD issues I can look through, please let me know.
Cheers! Kevin
------------------------------
From: David Cummings <woodstok@rupert.oscs.montana.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 17:01:17 -0600
Subject: Re: Large fermenters - ceramic crocks
Quick note on this NOKO... guy. With all due respect, this isn't alt.flame.
If you've got a beef with the guy just fill his mailbox with what you've got
to say. It's been discouraging to see so many people get up in arms and
post rebuttals in the forum. This is a brewing forum and should be reserved
for just that.
With that said i'll step off my soapbox and throw in just two more cents
worth of info. I'm not sure how readily they're available, but i've got and
old 10 gal ceramic crock that i'm using right now (as a primary fermenter)
to brew large batches. Actually I'm doing a two gal test batch first to see
if it'll be brew-worthy. Has anyone tried or used this before? My only
problem was cleaning/sanitizing the beast.
Dave
Life's a beer,
Brew it up!
------------------------------
From: smithrh@esper.com (Smith Family)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:47:10 -0400
Subject: Travelling - New Knoxville Brewing Co.
A new microbrewery called New Knoxville Brewing Co. just opened in
Knoxville, TN. It is Knoxville's first brewery for wholesale distribution
in nearly 90 years. They are open for tours and tasting on Saturdays from
noon to 4 p.m., and by appointment. All grain brewing and open fermenters
are used. Cherokee Distributing Co. is the distributor, and Swanky English
Ale is the first product. Distribution is expanding towards Nashville,
Chattanooga, Bristol and Asheville NC. They still have some stock for sale.
Their number is 423-521-7870.
Bob Smith
------------------------------
From: smithrh@esper.com (Smith Family)
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 19:47:08 -0400
Subject: Re: Catalogues
I've been ordering from The Grape and Granary in Akron, Ohio, 800-695-9870,
for a while. Their prices beat all others I've seen, but I haven't searched
extensively. I've been happy with their products, but I don't claim any
expertise. I'm interested in other opinions.
Bob Smith
------------------------------
From: Delano Dugarm <adugarm@worldbank.org>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:10:07 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Potatoes
Brian Bliss writes about malting potatoes and using them as a
adjunct.
I've never heard of malting potates, and always thought
that the sprouted ones had "gone bad."
The best reference I've found for potatoes is Brad Kraus
"This Spud's for You -- Potatoes as a Brewing Adjunct," _Zymurgy_
17 (4) 78-81 (1994).
From this I get three ways of using potatoes as an
adjunct.
1) Peel and boil the potatoes, mash and add to the mash.
2) Peel and boil the potatoes. Cool to around 140, add
amylase and let that convert the starches. Then add to the mash,
sparge as usual.
3) Boil instant potatoes and add to the mash.
I recently tried #3 and had the Stuck Mash from Hell(SM).
Sure, I use a zapap lauter tun, particularly prone to stuck
mashes. Sure, I've had stuck mashes before. This, though, was
the first mash that was so solidly stuck that I could lift it out
and _no_ liquid came through the false bottom. Perhaps rice
hulls would have helped.
I've never seen anyone claim that potatoes add much if
any flavor to beer. Given the problems I've had with them, I
prefer more easily used adjuncts.
Delano DuGarm
adugarm@worldbank.org
------------------------------
From: m.bryson2@genie.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 96 00:49:00 UTC 0000
Subject: Errant messages
Has anyone else received multilple email messages stating that:
1) You have been removed from the mailing list :(
2) You have been added to the mailing list :)
And so on.
I actually like the multiple digests/day. However, these automated
messages are getting a bit irritating.
Now back to brewing...
Matthew Bryson
------------------------------
From: Jim Nasiatka-Wylde <Jwylde@interaccess.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:23:03 -0500
Subject: O2 Grades/Seibolt Inst.
Hey all!
Time for my $0.02... Regarding the 'purity' of welding grade
O2 for non-gaseous contaminants - if you're that worried about
them, get yourself a HEPA capsule filter and put it in the line.
You can get them from places like Fischer Scientific, and they
range in size from 2" dia x 4 - 6" long to 1/2" dia x 1 - 2" long.
Barnstead makes a nice small one for use on the end of thier RO
water units that is of the smaller variety. It's ok for water
filtering, but has such a high pressure drop (read low flow) that
it's better for air. 0.2 uM will filter out just about anything,
and it'll last a loooonnnnng time given the volume of gas flowed.
In other questions - does anyone have the scoop on a place here
in Chicago called the Seibolt Institute (sp?) I've decided it's
time to educate the Homo-Heights Brewery staff and bring up our
collective skills - and I want to know a bit more about them before
I get on any more mailing lists. I've heard that Miller and
Budweiser send all their people there, but I'd like some more hard
information if anyone has it.
Thanks!
Jamie
All the money in the world is no match for hard work and ingenuity...
____
\ / Nothing is so strong as Gentleness; JWylde@interaccess.com
\/ nothing so gentle as real strength Nasiatka@anl.gov
------------------------------
From: Rob Moline <brewer@kansas.net>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 22:10:57 -0500
Subject: Oxygen Grades/Pitching Temps/Hazelnut Extract/Decoction/Wheeler
>From: "Donald A. Put" <daput@pe.net>
>Subject: Oxygen grades
>>Welding grae Oxygen should NEVER be used for human consumption.
>
So, if someone has something
>to add--in agreement or contrary to what I've been told--please join in.
Personally, I've used industrial grade oxygen for years in my
>brewery, and I know of quite a few micros/brewpubs that do the same.
I use welding grade O2 at the Little Apple, supplied to a 15 micron
stone set into the cold side of the heat exchanger.... I know that the only
professionally trained head brewer in this area (Bill Cherry, Masters, UC
Davis, Boulevard Brewing) uses an industrial air compressor to supply his
oxygenation needs, filtered through a .2 (?) micron filter, like those you
would see as a transducer protector on medical equipment...He says the
filter is to trap bacteria. But, when I thought of the question of medical
grade vs industrial grade O2, the only negative I could think of, (or in
this case was told about) was that there might be some oils in the valves or
industrial grade regulators. But thinking back to scuba training, I remember
that they only use a silicone or some other inert lubricants for any thing
that might encounter pressurized O2 for fear of an explosion or fire. So,
why would it be any different for your welder? I couldn't imagine his
regulator had any oxidizable lubes within, so why should mine? Besides, most
of the fellas I know in brewing use what I use, industrial grade. Is it
optimal? Perhaps not, but we have had no problems here. And who wants to pay
more for the same stuff with a pretty tank around it?
>From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
>Subject: Pitching temp for Weizen, Cu corrosion in fridge
> You are correct in being afraid of thermal shock,
No experience with pitching temps on lagers, but when I use a fresh
block of DRY yeast for a brew, I think there might be shock involved, but
one which the manufacturer recommends. My yeast is stored at 36-38 F and
re-hydrated for 10/60 in 100 F H2O, then attemperated with chilled wort at
66F for 10/60 before being pitched...
>From: Darrin Pertschi <darrinp@cowles.com>
Can anyone recommend an
>appropriate amount of Hazelnut extract to use for 5 gal.?
You might try using a syringe or pipette to measure small amounts
into a known quantity of beer until you like the taste, then factor it up
for the full amount of your batch...this is one area where only trial and
error will suffice..
>From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu>
>Subject: Re: decoction mashing
>
>George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro) wrote:
>>How many people out there decoction mash? Do you know why? Do you think it
>>makes a difference? How about the pro's in the audience?
>I make mostly German style beers and I decoction mash all of them, strictly
>for the flavors and aromas it produces, which is probably why most brewers
>(who do) do it these days. I believe this is the only way to consistently
>obtain certain aromatic components.
I agree with Tracy on the flavors from decoction, but believe you
can come pretty damn close with todays malts on just a single infusion. Most
of the brewers I know do just a single, but some are capable of doing
stepped infusions, with steam fired tuns and mash rakes. Most of us don't
have such things. Including cereal cookers. You could always transfer the
decocted portion to the kettle, but what a hassle!
>
>From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL@AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
>Subject: Rodenbach and acids (Wheeler's P)
Al: >> Perhaps the author should be sure before he puts pen to paper.
Indeed the microbe is different.
>As I recall one of the Rodenbachs studied
>brewing in England and apparently learned about the storage of the beer in
>large wood vessles.
I have received a comment or 2 regarding Wheelers Porter, asking for
references, of which I have none. I just reprinted the article from an
English brewpaper, and have no idea as to it's original date.. When I spoke
to Graham, he said he would send a disk with more info and references
within, but I have not yet received them. I must admit that I find the
article very stimulating, and tend to be a Wheeler history believer, but
what do I know? He said he would soon be getting on line, and I have
provided him with the HBD details, so with any luck you may soon have him
personaaly answering your questions. I believe there is some work going on
with an American publication for one of the brew mags, as well.
Jethro
Cheers!
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about
beer!"
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2121
****************************
