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HOMEBREW Digest #2122
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/07/24 PDT
Homebrew Digest Wednesday, 24 July 1996 Number 2122
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
RE: Errant messages ("CHUCK HUDSON, ER LAB 3-2865")
hardware for brewing (mterry)
Re: Indoor Propane ("Roger Deschner ")
Intimidated Newbies (KennyEddy@aol.com)
Re: What's the use of HDB? (Cory Wright)
male hops ((Peter Wester))
Carbonation (Narvaez Ronald)
Propane, again/CO detectors/HBD usefulness ((David C. Harsh))
RE: Conical Tanks (Joe Rolfe)
Decoction Mashing, Oktoberfest ((George De Piro))
Priming < 5 gal. (Darrin Pertschi)
HBD and The Web /Spent Grains in Bread (Karl Lutzen)
pseudo-decoction ("Bryan L. Gros")
The use of HBD, HBD jr. (Russell Mast)
Re: Fruit Extracts (Todd Kirby)
Brewpubs (MANCUSJM@sysadm.suny.edu)
Porter/Ground Ivy Beer/Conical Ferm's/Errant Messages/Siebel/Boulevard (Rob Moline)
Fruit Bitterness or Tartness (Maestro)
decoction/corrosion (M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac))
Tips on Brewfest '96 (RHENDRY@MFOR01.FOR.GOV.BC.CA)
potato beer/boiling gelatin/AlK and Wheeler's porter article (STROUDS@cliffy.polaroid.com)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "CHUCK HUDSON, ER LAB 3-2865" <CHUDSON@mozart.unm.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 21:21:22 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: RE: Errant messages
Each and every day I have been removed from the digest for ____
and a few messages down the line I get Welcome to the HBD.
I know a little of what Shawn is going through and sometimes it can't be helped
and if he is using a UNIX or VAX/VMS unit well they can be "fun" (See HBD from
a few days ago "If computer systems were beer")
Chuck Hudson
chudson@mozart.unm.edu
------------------------------
From: mterry <mterry@iea.com>
Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 23:06:31 -0700
Subject: hardware for brewing
Does anyone have plans, advice, or a reference regarding the fabrication
of a support for three 15 gal kettles with stoves and all the related
paraphernalia for all grain brewing in this quantity? A system that
could be dismantled intermittently would be nice.
Advice via posting or email would be appreciated.
mterry@iea.com
------------------------------
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 01:10:40 CDT
Subject: Re: Indoor Propane
Indoor propane appliances are quite common, in places with no natural gas
utility such as rural areas. Clothes dryers, stoves, water heaters, space
heaters, even refrigerators are propane powered. When properly installed,
these things operate safely, indoors.
BUT.. it is ILLEGAL to have a propane appliance on any level below ground
level, due to the extreme hazard of catastrophic explosion. (i.e. whole
house blows up).
Before you blow yourself up, go to a reputable propane dealer and get
their propane safety pamphlet.
Roger Deschner University of Illinois at Chicago rogerd@uic.edu
Aliases: u52983@uicvm.uic.edu R.Deschner@uic.edu USUICZ3P@IBMMAIL
=============== "Civilization was CAUSED by beer." =====================
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:52:25 -0400
Subject: Intimidated Newbies
Jesse Krusemark suggests:
<< Maybe a novice version of HBD is in order (HBDjr). >>
Jesse (and other newbies nervously lurking out there), this is a forum for
*everybody*. Don't let the likes of you-know-who or anyone else prevent you
from asking your "bonehead" questions. Most of us (at least those who
haven't yet acheived Brew-God status) are willing, even eager, to help
newbies and seasoned vets alike. The talk often gets technical and detailed
but that's what makes it fun. One day it hits you, that most of the posts
actually start to make sense, and you realize you've learned quite a bunch
here! I came to this forum with 3 years time experience but far less than
that in terms of what I really knew. Brewed in a vacuum, so to speak. In
the year I've been here I've learned many times more than what I knew prior.
Far more constructive than those first years -- make a batch, scowl, curse,
repeat. I've solved "most" of my process-related problems and am (usually)
making the kind of brew I always hoped I would. For someone like yourself
coming here at an early stage, you will have the collective wisdom of
literally centuries of brewing knowledge at your disposal. We wouldn't be
here chatting if we didn't like this stuff.
There are a huge number of good resources on the 'net for you to check out.
Without listing them individually, let me direct you to The Brewery
(http://alpha.rollanet.org). Lots of info an links, for beginners to
professional brewers. bound to bring up two new questions for every one that
you had.
*****
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
From: Cory Wright <cwright@midcom.anza.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:34:21 -0500
Subject: Re: What's the use of HDB?
Alan wrote:
>
What use does this mailing list serve that cannot be served by
rec.crafts.brewing?
>
Believe it or not, there are some of us (like me) who are usenet
challenged. Email is currently my only option for following such gripping
brewing topics as beer in space and whether we should be able to call each
other stupid or not. Wait a minute... maybe you're right. @;-)
Seriously, I'd hate to have the Digest go away. It has been a great help
and keeps me interested in brewing between the long stretches when I am
able to make a batch.
Cheers,
Cory
cwright@midcom.anza.com
------------------------------
From: peterw@rivo.dlo.nl (Peter Wester)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 15:38:26 +0100
Subject: male hops
Hi all,
I've heard the following about male and female hops during a lecture of
prof. dr. de Keuckeleire (from Belgium, doctor's degree in hops!): male
hops cause seeds in female hops (whow!) and those seeds contain oil, which
have a negative influence on the formation of foam. According to prof. dr.
de Keuckeleire is this the reason why the male hops will be removed from
the female hops. Can someone confirm this theory?
Yours sincerely,
- -- Peter Wester
------------------------------
From: Narvaez Ronald <RNarvaez@phs.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 96 07:50:00 PDT
Subject: Carbonation
Hello fellow brewers, I am having a small problem that maybe some of you
might be able to help me with. I have been brewing beer for around three
years, and haven't had any major problems to speak about but this little
one keeps happening. When I bottle my beer I always disolve 3/4 cup
dextrose in 1 quart of boiling water and then add to my bottling bucket.
I bottle and cap and put the bottles in my beer closet. The bottles
carbonate at around 70 deg. F for three weeks and have great carbonation.
When I put the beer in to the fridge to cool them down for drinking, I
loose almost all of the carbonation. When I poor the beer I don't get a
foamy head like I do when the beer is at room temp. I don't mind drinking
my beer at room temp but I would also like to drink it cold and still get
the rich foamy head.
If anybody can help me out I will be very thankfull. I am getting tired
of drinking cold flat beer.
Thanks for any assistance in advance.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ron Narvaez
RNarvaez@phs.org
Please check out the latest web page I just finished designing for my
homebrew shop here in Albuquerque New Mexico
www.nmia.com/~homebrew
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
From: dharsh@alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:55:47 -0400
Subject: Propane, again/CO detectors/HBD usefulness
Guy Gregory states that the only concern about indoor propane use is leaks
and explosions. Not true.
Cajun cooker style burners are not rated as being safe for indoor use. The
problem is carbon monoxide production which *can* (note - not always) be
produced at execessive levels. I am unaware of any data on this, but I
would assume that the "jet" style burners produce more CO than the cast
burners.
Gas leaks are a concern whether you are dealing with propane or methane,
the only difference is where your house blows up (methane rises, propane
sinks). Many kitchen stoves run on propane safely, you just have to switch
the orifices on the burners.
On CO detectors: Consumer Reports had a good write up on these earlier
this year - worth checking out.
HBD Usefuleness: The only problem I see is routine 100 line posts with 15
line signatures. The volume doesn't bother me, but come one, KEEP IT SHORT
AND TOO THE POINT! Omit the history of your brewing experience - summarize
briefly! And if Noko Ono really bothered you, inform the
postmaster@aol.com, don't rant at the collective (we probably agreed
anyway!!) No, I didn't get the pun in his logon name either. <rant mode
off>
Dave
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
& Dave Harsh &
& DNRC Minister of Bloatarianism O- &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
------------------------------
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc@shore.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:03:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: Conical Tanks
an addition to the ercent post on concial racking, the author
mentioned that racking from the middle cone vale and switching over to
the bottom valve....
another whay is to add a SS pipe that has a bend in itsuch that it may be
twisted in the tank from the outside to rack from just above the yeast
in the cone..tough to draw it in ascii.
this needs to be played with as to the length and bend angle to be adapted
to the specific tank and the amount of yeast present in the tank, where the
mid cone fittings and it's size (2"TC or..) are and the diameter of the tank.
with this you attach a see thru hose or sight glass and rack bulk of the
tank then as the level comes down start twisting the rack arm to follow the
beer until it become more turbid, the quitthen discard the refuse yeast
hopefull not to the sewer.....
just another method
joe
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:05:28 -0700
Subject: Decoction Mashing, Oktoberfest
Just to put two more cents into my own question, last night I looked
back at the 1995 AHA NHC Gold medal recipes. Of 7 beers that would
traditionally be decocted, 2 were. The 1992 winners had no
decoctions, but there were also a bunch of extract brews. 1995 had
only two extract brews, and I think they were both partial mash
(barley wine & a fruit-type beer, lambic maybe?).
Jason (HuskerRed@aol.com) asked about the Oktoberfest celebration and
beer a couple of issues back.
Marzen is THE traditional fest beer. The Oktoberfest as we now know
it has only been celebrated since 1810, when the first fest was held
to celebrate the engagement of Bavaria's crown prince.
Before then, the fest existed as a celebration of the reopening of
the breweries after the summer "off season." In the days before
glycol-cooled cylindroconical fermenters, brewing was not usually
done year-round in Bavaria. A strong beer was brewed in March (hence
the name Marzen, Marz=March) and was stored and consumed throughout
the summer. The beer's high gravity enabled it to avoid infection.
At summer's end, the leftovers were consumed at one heck of a party!
The original Marzen must have been an ale (lagers weren't known until
the middle of the 19th century), and was probably less attenuated
then the modern fest beers (this is probably the case with most
"ancient" beers, because of poorly modified malt and poor temperature
control during the mash, amongst other things).
The first modern Oktoberfest was brewed by Spaten in Munich. Similar
in color and grain bill to Vienna (i.e., lots of high-quality,
lightly toasted Munich malt), but brewed to a higher gravity (low
60's; weaker than bock, but not by much) and lagered cold for 9
months. In our time, fest beers are now of a somewhat lower gravity
(~1.1055) and are available year-round. Spaten claims that they
lager for 3 months.
Modern Oktoberfest beer is usually copper colored (although there are
lighter examples), and is fairly malty with toasty notes. Hop rates
are low, and the aroma is of toasty malt; no hop or ester fruitiness
should be present.
References for this have been books by M. Jackson and G. Fix, as well
as a source or two that I can't remember specifically!
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: Darrin Pertschi <darrinp@cowles.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:21:53 -0400
Subject: Priming < 5 gal.
I'd like to split a 5 gal batch between my keg and bottles. Anyone have a
tried and true corn sugar priming amout for 2.5 or 3 gallons to be batch
primed for bottling? It wouldn'd be 3/8 of a cup would it? I'll force
carbonate the remaining 2 or 2.5 gal. in the keg.
Darrin
------------------------------
From: Karl Lutzen <lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:06:09 -0500
Subject: HBD and The Web /Spent Grains in Bread
After following the bits of the various debates in the HBD, it really
should be noted that many of these types of discussions can be taken
care of through email with the person and not cluttering up valuable HBD
space. (like this message?)
As such, I have edited the HBD2HTML filter and now include mailto: links
on the contributor's article "From:" field. Mind you, these will not
always be perfect, but in many cases you can simply click on the link
and mail the person instead of the digest.
Of course this only works if your are reading the HBD from the htmlized
versions available at http://alpha.rollanet.org/hbd/HBD.html and you
have a web browser that supports the "mailto:" tag. But from the stats,
there are quite a few folks doing this.
(as a side note, I've converted all HBD's from 1992 to present. When I
get time I'll do the rest, but much of the data has been repeated since
then and I'll wager lots of money that most of the email addresses are
no longer valid in the older HBD's)
Now, for some Brewing related stuff:
Kevin Kane had asked about spent grains in bread. A quick search
generated a boat-load of hits, but these are 4 of the more interesting
results:
http://alpha.rollanet.org/hbd/archive/1264.html#1264-18
http://alpha.rollanet.org/hbd/archive/1265.html#1265-4
http://alpha.rollanet.org/hbd/archive/1341.html#1341-20
http://alpha.rollanet.org/hbd/archive/1342.html#1342-29
==================================================================
Karl Lutzen lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
System Administrator
The Brewery http://alpha.rollanet.org/
------------------------------
From: "Bryan L. Gros" <grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:12:48 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: pseudo-decoction
>>From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu>
>>Subject: Re: decoction mashing
>>
>>George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro) wrote:
>>>How many people out there decoction mash? Do you know why? Do you think it
>>>makes a difference? How about the pro's in the audience?
>
>>I make mostly German style beers and I decoction mash all of them, strictly
>>for the flavors and aromas it produces, which is probably why most brewers
>>(who do) do it these days. I believe this is the only way to consistently
>>obtain certain aromatic components.
In a Style article earlier this year, the author (Jay Hersh maybe?) suggests
that a homebrewer can achieve some of the benefits of decoction by
raising the temperature in a direct-fired tun by 1 degreeF/minute and
stirring well. (Don't remember what temps, probably protein rest temp
to sacchrification temp). He says the heat gives some of the benefits
of a decoction including the darker color.
Anyone tried this? I tend to comprimise and use a single decoction when
I make a German beer. It isn't that much harder than my usual step mash
and ads some maltiness.
BTW, the style article was on Munich Dunkels, and the author says
that, like most German styles, brewers use a double or triple decoction
mash for Dunkels beers.
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
Nashville, TN
------------------------------
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 10:26:46 -0500
Subject: The use of HBD, HBD jr.
> From: alan.mckay@acadiau.ca (Alan McKay)
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 13:26:45 -0300 (ADT)
> Subject: What's the use of HDB?
> I don't mean to be the devil's advocate,
I do. Use Devil (tm) brand products all the time. They're HOT!
Ahem, sorry.
> but is there any real reason why HBD even exists anymore?
I, for one, am blocked from reading newsgroups. My only contact with
the big net is through e-mail.
> Personally, I'd much rather read all this
> stuff in a newsgroup where it is far, far easier to follow threads
> and so on. Getting a big long text file like this is an real pain in
> the butt.
Well, it's worked for several years, during most or all of which the
newsgroup was active, so there must be SOMETHING to it.
> What use does this mailing list serve that cannot be
> served by rec.crafts.brewing?
Well, until recently (cough cough) the HBD has been relatively free of
the noise and nonsense of rec.crafts.brewing. Additionally, it was
geared more towards the more serious brewer, and/or the more mature
poster. It was, essentially, a little more exclusive, because one had
to take the effort to subscribe, rather than just "wander in off the
streets" as one often does in newsgroups.
For example, the perennial "Anyone tried to make a marijuana beer?" thread
pops up here once a year, and gets dropped within a few posts. I haven't
followed the newsgroup in two years, but back then it was basically ongoing,
taking only an occasional two or three week break before someone else came
in and started it.
> From: Maestro <krusemje@martin.luther.edu>
> Date: Tue, 23 Jul 1996 14:43:53 -0500 (CDT)
> Subject: HBD jr.
>
> I enjoy reading the
> digest and love experiencing the glory of the knowledge that it protrudes
> twice daily, but to be honest 80% of it gets filed in "What-d-Heck!"
I think that I skip about 60% of the digest daily, even when I have the time.
Sometimes, I don't understand the topic, more often, I don't care. I won't
have the time/space/money resources for anything larger than a 5 gallon
setup for a year or so. I don't read the posts about RIMS. They used to
frighten me, but not longer.
> But we need guidance and sponsorship. Maybe a novice version of HBD is
> in order (HBDjr). Those who care may participate in both forums. Those
> of us new to brewing want to be appreciated and encouraged without
> bothering the "pros" and inflicting "page-down" syndrome on the HBD.
> Would anyone be able or willing to begin a juniour affiliate?
First, it's hard enough to get someone to maintain one HBD, I don't know
where you could find another. Secondly, page-down syndrome is something
you'll always have in HBD regardless of level of knowledge. I suspect, also,
you'd have it in any incarnation of an HBDjr.
Second, I don't see the need for another digest. I definately think that
we can all modify our posting habits a bit, and provide proper encouragement
over private e-mail for people with rudimentary questions. (I try, as do a
couple others I know.) Some of this stuff is intimidating to anyone, and
perhaps it should occasionally be re-emphasized that you CAN make good beer
without a slide rule and a tesla coil.
Still, the purpose of HBD is improving beer. Some will tell you some easy
and cheap things you can do, others will tell you some difficult and expensive
things you can do. I think there's a place for it all, and I think this is
it. Many of the novice questions have been asked time and again, but that's
no reason to be afraid to ask them.
Finally, I'm just not sure what you'd put in an HBDjr. Would it be the same
forty questions over and over, with the same 3 self-appointed experts
answering them each time? Maybe some kind of Brewing FAQ file would be more
appropriate.
- -R
------------------------------
From: Todd Kirby <mkirby@bgsm.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:25:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Fruit Extracts
Brewthren:
David Burley asks why not just use real fruit instead of extracts? I
think once I set out to make a fruit beer from the start I will most
definitely use the real McCoy. My primary concern at present is that I'm
wanting to enhance a brew I've got ready to go in to the keg. From what I
can tell, adding fruit is probably going to start another fermentation
and, having already finished half of this batch (I brew 10 gal batches),
I don't want to further raise the alcohol content. It seemed a good
opportunity to test fruit extracts since the base beer (my first porter)
was a little too lightly hopped for the style. At any rate, I'm going to
try a strawberry extract, having remembered a most excellent strawberry
porter at the invitational this past spring in Durham. We'll see what
happens. That's what's fun about this hobby! Any suggestions are most
certainly welcome.
Todd K.
------------------------------
From: MANCUSJM@sysadm.suny.edu
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 09:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Brewpubs
I am heading to the Myrtle Beach, SC soon and would appreciate
information about brewpubs or other decent establishments in the area.
Jim Mancuso
mancusjm@sysadm.suny.edu
------------------------------
From: Rob Moline <brewer@kansas.net>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:04:45 -0500
Subject: Porter/Ground Ivy Beer/Conical Ferm's/Errant Messages/Siebel/Boulevard
Dave B on Porter-
>When I read Wheeler's comment about the people of London inventing Porter, I
>understood it to mean the concept of blending stale and new beer. I believe
>Harwood is properly credited elsewhere with introducing "Entire". I guess it
>was
>called this because it contained everything a drinker could want in that it
was
>a preblend of stale and new beer. And responsible for that spoiled taste I
>sometimes get with Guiness from the tap. Entire was later called Porter either
>because it was popular in the Porterhouse or as some have said because it was
>ported out of London. I favor the Porterhouse version, just because I like
>those steaks.
>I had the same feeling as AlK about the comments on the origin of Rodenbach,
>unless Wheeler is talking about the concept of blending old and new beer,
which
>Belgians do all the time aka Gueuze and many others.
>Maybe it isn't so much poor research as sloppy writing and a desire to give a
>different perspective. The latter of which I think is fine unless it is
>misleading, as these comments can be.
"Mr. Harwood's Entire" or "Entire Butt" and was first sold at a pub
called the Blue Last.....
....the publican called it porter, since porters were his best
customers for the new beer." Foster "Porter", 1982, Brewers Publications,
page 6.
Blending new beer and soured beer is the point there, ala Guinness,
and many Belgians. I would hesitate to call his writing sloppy, based on one
short article in a brewspaper, having never read any of his other stuff.
(But I am looking forward to it!)
>From: Vincent A Voelz <voel0009@gold.tc.umn.edu> (Vincent Voelz)
>Subject: Ground Ivy beer....continued
>
>Last night I just brewed the English Ale (some light extract w/ crystal and
>brown specialty grains for color) with 1 oz. creeping Charlie (a.k.a.
>Ground Ivy) -- which is essentially a lawn weed -- instead of hops as the
>bittering agent. Some of us reported a stingy/numbing sensation after
tasting it, which I think is the bittering component (whatever THAT is).
Still, I
>would like to find out the toxicity of the plant, as well as determine
>whether or not allergic reactions to the plant are possible/probable. Any
>info/references/etc. would be appreciated.
Your report of stingy/numbing sensation made me think some light
toxicity, but I called Spencer Tomb, Prof Plant Biology, KSU....He says it
is probably Glecoma Hederaceae L., member of the mint family Lamiaceae. If
it is, it was an import from Europe to the Eastern US, and that members of
the mint family are not known for toxicities. The best way is to take a
whole plant to your county agent for Identification. Failing that you may
send one to me and He said he would identify it for you. His concern is that
what may be considered a colloquial name for one plant in one part of the
world may be colloquially known as something else in another part. I, as he,
like the idea of it, but he says that until positively identified, he
wouldn't drink any.
>From: Kyle R Roberson <roberson@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
>Subject: Conical Fermenters
>My impression is that these tanks would not work very well with
>only a bottom valve.
They are more versatile with the racking port, but are able to be
used without, as well. I drop the yeast from the bottom, until it runs
clear, then transfer to a secondary tank for fining /sedimentation, thence
to bright beer servers. The racking port is most useful with filters for the
reasons you explained. No matter that you can drop the yeast from the
bottom, there is still a thin layer on the inner surface of the cone, that
you can avoid by having your racking arm open to the center of the vessel
and away from the walls. I just installed racking arms to mine, but have
used them without rackers for nearly 2 years now.
>From: m.bryson2@genie.com
> Has anyone else received multilple email messages stating that:
>1) You have been removed from the mailing list :(
>2) You have been added to the mailing list :)
Yes, but I just thought it was a 'friend' of mine... ;-)
>From: Jim Nasiatka-Wylde <Jwylde@interaccess.com>
>In other questions - does anyone have the scoop on a place here
>in Chicago called the Seibolt Institute (sp?)
Siebel Institute, 4055 W Peterson Ave., Chicago, Illinois,
60646-6001, (707)-463-3400. Great reputation, but be seated when you open
their catalog and see the costs! Not that they are out of line with similar
schools. Tom Ricker, 75th Street Brewing, has done their long course and
Kevin Eichelberger, Blind Tiger Brewing, has done the short course; they
both give it high praise!
From: Larry N. Lowe <lnl@awips1.abrfc.noaa.gov>
second question: i recently tried a Boulevard Wheat and UMM..UMM GOOD. does
anyone have a recipe for this or thier pale ale? BTW, it is from a microbrew in
KC (Jethro Gump?)
Boulevard Brewing is a micro, this last year crossing the line to go
above 25,000 BBL, just across the Kansas border in KC MO. Started by John
MacDonald, they are on the verge of bursting out of their building, as they
are only able to install one more unitank, before they have to go to the
next step, a new facility that would produce the main lines and just use the
old facilities for specialties. Nice folks, nice beer.
I have seen their recipe for Wheat, but when I looked I was more
interested in how they laid out their brewing logs, what notations they
made, etc. I would never ask for more specifics. Sorry. I do recall they
were dryhopping the PA, with whole EKG, but don't know if they are still
doing it.
If you are going to be in the area, call ahead for tour info..very
tasty tasting room, too!
Jethro
Cheers!
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The more I know about beer, the more I realize I need to know more about
beer!"
------------------------------
From: Maestro <krusemje@martin.luther.edu>
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:39:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Fruit Bitterness or Tartness
Greetings Brewsters,
Although I have not brewed a fruit beer, I have been thinking about
doing one ever since I began brewing. I've been reading recipes and pondering
various things in search of something original. I haven't seen any
rhubarb beer recipes (but lots of rhubarb mead recipes) and that seems to
be what I have the most of currently in my garden. Actually it's coming
out of my ears, and I'd like to use it.
My question is what must be considered in hopping due to an inherent
bitterness in the fruit or its seeds (for instance, raspberry seeds).
Does anyone have any ideas for hop type and boil schedule if one would
like to use some of the bitterness already present in the fruit.
Jesse Krusemark
krusemje@martin.luther.edu
------------------------------
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac)
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 11:37 -0600
Subject: decoction/corrosion
collective homebrew conscience:
thanks for the explanation of the corrosion on my temperature probe. anybody
else have more ideas about how to fix it other than paint/lacquer? just
curious.
re: decoction mashing. i decoction mash all my lagers and weizenbiers, and
the occasional altbier. i believe my beers benefit from more intense malt
flavors, and yes, i have done side-by-side comparisons. i preferred the
decoction-mashed beer(s).
now, here's a question for all you decoction mash experts: when the cold
(rest) mash sits at protein rest temperature (122-131 F) for an extended
time ( in my case, it sits a minimum of 90 minutes) while the decocting
is going on, what's going on in terms of protein degradation, and why
doesn't this
(oops) have an effect on the body/head retention of the finished beer? is
it because the medium sized proteins in the decoction are preserved? my
decoction beers don't have a problem with body/hr, but i've often wondered
if this is the correct answer.
anybody out there having problems with maintaining sufficient mash liquor
temperature during recirculation ( vorlauf )?
someone asked about the siebel institute of technology in chicago. they
run ads in every issue of zymurgy, and offer a range of courses on different
aspects of beer production. 312 279 0966 is the number to call.
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
From: RHENDRY@MFOR01.FOR.GOV.BC.CA
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 96 09:40:00 PDT
Subject: Tips on Brewfest '96
To: HOMEBREW--INTERNET homebrew@aob.org
I'm going to take in the Oregon Brewfest this weekend in Portland, anyone have
any last minute tips on how to enjoy it to the fullest? Other tours & brewpubs
which are a "must see" for an avid brewer on his one time sojourn to "Mecca"?
Thanks for any insights, please post today if you can.
Regards,
Russ Hendry, R.O. Planning In Sunny Invermere BC.(604)342-4225
Fax:342-4247 Inet: RHENDRY@MFOR01.FOR.GOV.BC.CA
------------------------------
From: STROUDS@cliffy.polaroid.com
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 13:51:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: potato beer/boiling gelatin/AlK and Wheeler's porter article
RE: Spud beer:
Brian Bliss writes about malting potatoes and using them as a
adjunct and Delano DuGarm replies:
> I've never heard of malting potates, and always thought
>that the sprouted ones had "gone bad."
> The best reference I've found for potatoes is Brad Kraus
>"This Spud's for You -- Potatoes as a Brewing Adjunct," _Zymurgy_
>17 (4) 78-81 (1994).
Ahem. The original authoritative article on brewing with potatoes was
written by Carey Jensen back in the April 1987 issue of the Foam Ranger's
Brewsletter Urquell. I reposted this article along with some of my own
potato experiences back in HBD's 1365, 1369, and 1370 (March 1994). I will
leave it to any interested parties to retrieve those articles on their own.
***********
RE: boiling gelatin
Pierre Jelenc restates the truth:
>Once and for all, please, gelatin is made by BOILING collagen FOR HOURS.
>It is fully denatured. Everything that can happen to it has already
>happened.
It is worth noting that Don Put perpetuated this myth about gelatin in a
recent issue (Vol 4, #1) of Brewing Techniques. His article on clarifying
beers stated that one shouldn't boil gelatin/water. I was surprised that no
one write a Letter to the Editor on that one. Pierre?
Of related interest is a tour that I took last summer of the Kind & Knox
gelatin production plant in Sioux City, IA. Train loads of cleaned cow
bone chips are treated with base to extract the calcium. What is left are
basically small chunks of rubbery collagen. These are treated with hot,
then _boiling_ water to extract the gelatin (initial hot water extractions
yield lower MW gelatin fragments, useful in some applications). The
gelatin solutions obtained then undergo ion-exchange treatment,
concentration, and final drying and processing to yield dry gelatin.
*******************
RE: Wheeler's Porter article
Wheeler (via Rob) writes:
>Thus the original London porter was invented by the people of
>London, the collective drinking public, and not by Ralph Harwood as many
>people assert.
and AlK responds
>Among these many people is Terry Foster whose very well-researched
>book "Porter" contradicts this statement. Dr. John Harrison would
>be a good person to ask to mediate, or at least cast the tie-breaking
>vote.
On the contrary, I do not agree that Foster contradicts Wheeler. Go back
and read pages 5-10 of Foster's book. The last two paragraphs of page 6
and the first of page 7 clearly indicate that Foster does _not_ believe
that Harwood invented porter.
Also:
Wheeler also writes:
>This is the Belgian Rodenbach, which has it's origins in
>London Porter, and is itself a blend of a sour beer, stored for
>18 months in large oak vats, and a relatively fresh beer that
>is only a month or so old.
>Furthermore they also sell the sour or "stale" beer on it's own,
>under the name of Rodenbach Grand Cru.
And AlK responds:
>I question that Rodenbach is at all related to London Porter.
>I would like to see some references for this statement.
Peter Bouckaert, head brewer at Rodenbach, believes that there is a strong
connection between the two. He stated that at the talk he gave at the Craft
Brewers conference in Boston in April (apparently Eugene Rodenbach learned
the art of brewing while in England in 1860, a time when porter still
accounted for 3/4 of all of the beer drunk in London, according to Foster).
For the full text of Peter's talk, go to
http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/Rodnbch.html
Also, AlK sez:
> For the record, I personally get no acetic (vinegary) character
>in either of the Rodenbach beers.
You didn't taste the right bottle :-).
Seriously, there is extremely wide variation from oak barrel to oak barrel
at Rodenbach. A member of our local homebrew club (Sarah White)had a very
personalized tour of Rodenbach a couple of years ago. She walked around
the brewery with Peter, tasting samples from many of the 294 aging barrels.
Sarah reported that the variation between aging tanks was fascinating, one
would be lactic, another acetic, another like New England style cider.
Al, you also didn't fully quote Wheeler, he clearly stated that the acidity
of Rodenbach Grand Cru may be mellowed by extended aging - this is exactly
the same discussion that has been going on regarding esterification in the
lambic digest. The Brett activity in the aging barrels may be enough to
get the acetic acid level close to or below threshold
>From personal experience, I can report that the Boston area had bottles of
Grand Cru some years ago that was acetic enough to clean your teeth off.
The more recent vintages have been much more restrained.
Overall, I think that Al's objections to Wheeler's porter article were too
harsh and generally unfounded.
Steve
************
strouds@polaroid.com
************
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2122
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