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HOMEBREW Digest #2131
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/08/07 PDT
Homebrew Digest Thursday, 1 August 1996 Number 2131
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
[none] (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
[none] (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
Bananas, Decoction Stout, Sulfite ("David R. Burley")
Burnt Taste / Fruit Beer Questions ( |8-{0 Oh No!) (KennyEddy@aol.com)
oak chips/fast ferments/blowoff vs. nonblowoff (korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com)
apology and question ((Jim Layton 952-3733))
[Fwd: Iodophor] (Bob Caplan)
Sulfites as sterilants ("David R. Burley")
Nitrous Oxide cartridge source ("Dave Eddington")
seeking supplies in europe ((Bill Anderson))
looking for Shawn Steele (Elisabeth Holzer)
Yeast washing ((George De Piro))
Bananas are a good Thing! (Michael Caprara)
alternatives to keg refrigerator (Robert DeNeefe)
culturing pacman (Ben McCurtain)
Oak Chips! (Douglas Thomas)
Re: Super-Quick Fermentations ("Ed J. Basgall")
Unmalted wheat extract potential (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
Digging Deeper re unmalted wheat extraction (DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932)
Which Wheat? ("M. Todd Kirby")
Wheat/Starter (RUSt1d?)
Protein rest in 40/60/70C mash / Sparging Rate (Rob Reed)
Re: Aluminum/Utah/Yeast ((JIM ANDERSON))
wood chips (M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac))
old wyeast? (M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac))
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb@elmer.fing.edu.uy>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:50:00 -0300 (UY)
Subject: [none]
Dear friends:
I would appreciate your suggestions on how to keep yeasts for a long time.
I am planning to mail order them soon. When I receive them, I will use
part of them to brew but I will need to keep the rest until the next
batch or until I receive the next order. This would take some time so I
will need to keep them alive for a long time. Any suggestions?
Thanks for your help.
Jorge Blasig
------------------------------
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb@elmer.fing.edu.uy>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:58:12 -0300 (UY)
Subject: [none]
Dear Friends;
I have a friend who lives in Stuttgart, Germany. He has offer me to bring
me hops and yeasts when he comes to Uruguay. I need to know if there are
any homebrew store in Germany, specially close to Stutttgart where he
could purchase the hops and yeasts I need.
I would appreciate any information you can send me.
Jorge Blasig
------------------------------
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 31 Jul 96 18:29:47 EDT
Subject: Bananas, Decoction Stout, Sulfite
Brewsters:
Daniel Goodale ( Yes that's his real name) has come upon a plethora of bananas,
pulped and froze them and asks for some suggestions for using them in a beer.
I have never used bananas in making beer, but an OLD book called "Progressive
Winemaking" by Peter Duncan and Bryan Acton (1967, Holmes and Sons, London)
recommends to use them as a neutral source for adding body to non-grape fruit
wines. A typical white wine required about 5 lbs for five gallons ( I guess
the weight is with the skins) and a full wine like Sauternes would require ten
pounds for 5 gallons. Although they were dumped into the juice and sugar before
fermentation in making wine, it is a debate about whether I'd use them as a
fruit additive or an adjunct in the mash, using the malt enzymes to chew up any
carbohydrates. I don't know what they would do to the clarity if used as a
fruit
additive,a pectic enzyme may be needed, yet boiling them after mashing would
reduce the aroma. I guess I'd try 5 pounds either way and find out. Be sure to
report back. As far as the grist goes, how about using a Belgian ale type mash,
at least eventually.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Bryan gave us his milk stout recipe and said he was going to do a double
decoction mash. Why? I'd do an infusion mash to be in style.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
AlK says that sulfites in acid media ( like fruits and juices) don't sterilize.
I have read this several times here in the HBD and wonder what the origin is of
this statement, as I have read for many years in many books that acidic
sulfites
are sterilants. It may be that the alkalai salts aren't, I don't know, and this
could be a source of confusion. Please provide a primary reference.
- -----------------------------------------------------------
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:43:46 -0400
Subject: Burnt Taste / Fruit Beer Questions ( |8-{0 Oh No!)
A questiona bout a "burnt flavor" came up a couple HBD's ago. I don't have
personal experience with autolysis (yeast cannibalism), but doesn't that have
a "burnt rubber" smell/taste associated with it? Leaving beer on too much
yeast, especially in the primary, is a prime cause of this, I believe.
********
OK, I'm hooked on trying a cherry porter next -- my first fruit beer. I've
read the discussion about the vigorous secondary fermentation created by the
yeast. This means that more alcohol is created (in addition to what the
plain pre-fruit wort generated), and therefore a lower gravity and thinner
mouthfeel.
To compensate, would simply mashing at a very dextrinous temperature (say,
158F or so) result in a thicker, lower-alcohol beer, more well-suited for the
volume and thinning effects of the alcohol produced by the fruit? How much
fermentable sugar is supplied per pound of cherries on the average? With
this information one could better estimate the total alcohol in the final
product, to try to keep it in balance.
What about hopping? Intuition might suggest reducing the hop rate to allow
the fruit to shine better, but one doesn't want icky-sweet either.
Thanks for whatever y'all can offer.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 96 17:55:40 CDT
Subject: oak chips/fast ferments/blowoff vs. nonblowoff
Ken writes:
>I just purchased some American White Oak Chips (I think typically used in
>wine making) and would like to try to emulate the flavor of cask
>conditioned beer such as Fuller's ESB. My question is the quantity as well
>as the stage.
The quanitity used should be zero. Fuller's uses stainless steel kegs for
their cask-conditioned ales. What "cask conditioned" means is that the
beer is "live." Another name for it is "Real Ale." It means that the
beer is not filtered and the yeast in the cask (wood or stainless) has
been used to carbonate the beer naturally, via primings. Even beers such
as Samuel Smith's Museum Ale or Old Brewery Bitter (which *are* served
from wood casks) do not have any oaky aroma or taste.
Save the oak chips for Rodenbach Grand Cru and Ballentine's IPA clones which
do indeed have oaky flavours. There is an oak flavour in some Lambics
but there is growing evidence that it has nothing to do with the fact that
these beers are fermented in wood. You may use oak chips to add an oaky
character to pLambics, but I, personally, am skeptical that this is how
these beers get their oak character (I think it's microbiological).
***
Eric writes:
>Within eight hours there is appreciable fermentation going
>on, and by 40 hours there is only a very small amount of noticeable
>fermentation. IOW, there is very little bubbling. From sources I have read
>(books, WWW pages, etc.), I was under the impression that it would take quite
>a bit longer than this to ferment. Any ideas?
Fermentation time is dependent on a number of factors:
yeast health,
dissolved oxygen in the cooled wort,
temperature,
fermentability, and
Original Gravity.
As the first three increase, the fermentation time decreases. As the last
two increase, the fermentation time increases. Also, some yeasts strains
are simply faster than others.
With healthy yeast and lots of dissolved oxygen, a typical 1.050 wort
can ferment in as quickly as two days if your temperature is in the 70's F.
With mishandled yeast and poor oxygenation, a typical 1.050 wort can take
as long as three weeks to ferment at, say 60F with some ale yeasts.
***
tapp writes:
>What taste or other differences result from blowing off or not blowing off
>>krausen during primary fermentation; and are any differences worth the extra
>effort of blowoff?
>
>I've read the books. What do you all say?
Read Brewing Techniques May/June 1996 (Vol. 4, No. 3).
See "When Fermentation Rears Its Dirty Head - Testing the theories for and
against removing kraeusen during fermentation."
To summarize -- the flavour differences (according to about a half dozen
BJCP judges) were virtually nil except for the blowoff batch being less bitter.
The lab tests confirmed this.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
From: layton@sh28.dseg.ti.com (Jim Layton 952-3733)
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 17:05:40 -0500
Subject: apology and question
I must say, after re-reading David Burley's post in #2121, that he never said
he used Fruit Fresh for sterilizing fruit. David, I hope you will accept my
apology. I must try to be more careful and considerate.
My question is prompted by an interesting post from Charlie Scandrett in HBD
#2128. He reports that with malts available in the US and UK, rests in the
45C to 55C range should be minimized in order to prevent over-reduction of
medium weight proteins. My experience with rests in this range, using US 2-row
malt, seems to support this. I've tried 50C protein rests on two all-grain
batches. The first of these rested 30 minutes at 50C, the second 20 minutes.
Both turned out thin-bodied and had poor head retention. Since then I've had
better results with US 2-row in single infusion mashes at 68C-69C but yields
have been lower and chill haze worse. Okay, maybe a rest at 60C before going
to 68C will give me just what I want. My question is this: why so many recipes
and recommendations (especially from 8-10 years ago) for 30 minutes at 50C?
Has US malt changed? Have we (I mean y'all, not me) gotten smarter? Might a
50C rest be still appropriate for US 6-row?
Jim Layton
layton@antme2.dseg.ti.com
------------------------------
From: Bob Caplan <bobcapl@rpnet.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 16:17:01 -0700
Subject: [Fwd: Iodophor]
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
Message-ID: <31FA3465.730C@rpnet.net>
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 1996 08:23:17 -0700
From: Bob Caplan <bobcapl@rpnet.net>
X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win16; U)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: homebrew@aob.com
CC: bobcapl@rpnet.net
Subject: Iodophor
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
A while back, I read an article about sanitation and Iodophors in
general. It was, of course, touted to be a pretty good sanitizer. I've
been using it for years and have to agree. One of the probelems for me
has always been the cost of the product. This article suggested trying
dairy suppliers for a less expensive product. I have and I've come up
with one that I have to share.
I found a product called UDDER-DU Iodine Sanitizer and Udder Wash for
Dairy Cows. It's made by An-Fo Manufacturing Co., Oakland, CA. (I don't
work for these folks, never did, never want to <g>).
I've looked at the label on it and on B-T-F Iodophor and they are
practically the same:
B-T-F:
Butoxy polypropoxy polyethoxy ethanol-iodine complex (providing 1.6%
titrable iodine) 12.54%
Inert Ingredients 87.46%
UDDER-DU:
Alpha(p-nonyphenl)-omega-hydroxypoly(oxyethylene)--iodine complex
(provides 1.67% minimal titrable iodine) 17.68%
Phosphoric Acid 5.80%
Inert Ingredients 76.52%
The PPM is exactly the same. You get 12.5 with 1/2 oz. in 5 gallons with
each. The only difference that I can see is the price. ('cept the
phosphoric acid) The B-T-F costs $10-12 per 33 fl oz and the UDDER-DU is
$13 a gallon. Yep, $13 a gallon.
I feel like if it's good enough for a cow's udder, it's surely good
enough for my beer making enterprise. Give it a thought.
Bob Caplan
------------------------------
From: "David R. Burley" <103164.3202@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 31 Jul 96 20:29:29 EDT
Subject: Sulfites as sterilants
Brewsters:
I forgot that I have an excellent professional reference which I didn't think
about until after I posted my question on sulfites as sterilants.
>From "Table Wines, The Technology of Their Production" 1951,1970 U Cal Press by
A.A. Amerine and M.A. Joslyn. This book is the equivalent to Malting and
Brewing
Science in the wine world
p380
"Sulfur dioxide, as the fumes of burning elemental sulfur, has been used in
wine
making since antiquity to disinfect containers, control fermentation and
preserve wine."
P.396
"The antiseptic effect of sulfur dioxide and sulfites was long known to depend
upon the free, undissociated sulfurous acid or molecular sulfur dioxide, and
less or absent in combined sulfites or neutral sulfites. Muller-Thurgau and
Osterwalder (1914) were the first to observe that sulfurous acid and its salts
werre effective as preservatives only in acid media......... It is now known
that even slight changes in pH in the region of 3-5 markedly affect the
proportion of undissociated acid present and consequently its antiseptic
efficacy. "
P. 395
" Sulfur dioxide tends to protect the wine from excessive oxidation by
inhibiting enzymic and non-enzymic oxidative discoloration...."
As you may know, sulfur dioxide dissolved in sodium hydroxide in the correct
stoichiometry will produce sodium metabisulfite, likewise with potassium
hydroxide to produce potassium metabisulfite. Acidifying these salts will
produce sulfurous acid which will act as an anti-browning agent and as a
sterilant. while acidic, it reacts with oxygen, so it is labile in air, and
becomes non-active quickly.
The pH =3 to 5 comment above needs needs some explaining:
pH %H2SO3 %HSO3^-1 %SO3^-2
0.0 98.3 1.7 0
1.0 85.5 14.5 0
1.8 50.0 50.0 0
3.0 5.5 94.5 0
3.3 0.2 99.8 0
4.0 0 100.0 0
5.0 0 99.0 1.0
6.0 0 80.9 19.1
7.0 0 50.0 50.0
etc
..
So, above about pH = 3 the sterilizing abilities of SO2 are limited, above pH
=5 the sufite ion begins to predominate and it has no sterilizing ability.
The bottom line is, however, acidic solutions of metabisulfite with a pH less
than 3.0 are excellent sterilants for yeast and bacteria and behave as
anti-browning agents. Most wines from grapes will be in the pH of 3.4 range or
(preferably) lower. Beers, of course, should never be this low*, and
metabisulfite is not a good sterilant in beer, which I guess is where this info
came from. If you want to sterilize something like glassware with metabisulfite
instead of bleach or iodophor, make up a solution of metabisulfite and acidify
it with an edible acid, say citric acid and use it right away.
* unless they are intentionally prepared with bacteria in them, and then you
don't want sufurous acid..
Keep on brewin'
Dave Burley
------------------------------
From: "Dave Eddington" <homebrew@aristotle.net>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 20:48:09 -0500
Subject: Nitrous Oxide cartridge source
"Brian P. Colgan" <bcolgan@sungard.com> writes:
>I have tried nitrogen oxide (whippets?) cartridges for my stouts in the
past,
>and boy did they turn out great. I just got them from my local HB store,
so I
>wouldn't know where else to find them.
Try your local head shop. Many partiers like to fill balloons with the NO2
and huff until their head spins (so I've heard). It's the same as the
"laughing gas" you get at the dentist.
****************************************************************************
********
Dave Eddington
Little Rock, AR
Homebrew@aristotle.net
------------------------------
From: anderson@terminal.cz (Bill Anderson)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:53:11 +0200
Subject: seeking supplies in europe
Living in the Czech Republic, I am surrounded by Pilsner Urquell, Budvar,
and Radegast, very fresh, really cheap. The problem arises that Czech
Pilsner and black beers are the *only* styles available. No variety
whatsoever.
In CR, there is no homebrew network that I know of. I am currently trying
to gain access to raw malt and hops, but I fear that I will have little
chance of success, as I have made only a few batches of beer, and I don't
beleive that I am ready to malt my own barley.
Could someone please supply contacts of homebrew suppliers/manufacturers in
Europe? England, Germany, and Belgium are best. Any homebrew contacts in
the Czech Republic would be ideal.
Thank you, and na zdravi!
- -Bill
------------------------------
From: Elisabeth Holzer <Elisabeth_Holzer@zd.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 1996 18:00:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: looking for Shawn Steele
If this isn't the right address, please let me know.
I'm senior editor of Yahoo! Internet Life, a monthly net mag/web site, and
would like to discuss homebrewing resources (or the lack of them!) on the net.
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 08:48:38 -0700
Subject: Yeast washing
Somebody posted something about having some yeast that was washed with
water. That got me thinking, "Gee, I've always wanted to know more
about yeast washing, but my local homebrew shop never has any books
about yeast culturing."
So, does anybody out there know anything about it? How do you acid
wash the yeast without killing them? Is washing the yeast worth it?
Can I just put them in the washing machine or do they have to be dry
cleaned? (I'm really sorry about that horrible joke, but not sorry
enough to delete it).
Also, a friend asked me what invert sugar is. While I could tell them
how to make it and what it is, I found that I don't know the USE of
it! Does it taste different from other sugars?
Have fun!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: Michael Caprara <mcaprara@awwarf.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 07:47:04 -0600
Subject: Bananas are a good Thing!
>>> Homebrew Digest REQUEST Address Only
<homebrew-request@aob.org> 07/31/96 04:29pm >>>
Brewsters:
Daniel Goodale ( Yes that's his real name) has come upon a plethora of
bananas, pulped and froze them and asks for some suggestions for
using them in a beer.
I have never used bananas in making beer, but an OLD book called
"Progressive Winemaking" by Peter Duncan and Bryan Acton (1967,
Holmes and Sons, London) recommends to use them as a neutral
source for adding body to non-grape fruit wines.
Dave,
I have used bananas in both beer and mead. The beer I made was a
banana smoked porter. The bananas were an afterthought....i was
brewin', the bananas were rottin' on the top of the fridge, ploop, in the
wort. The beer was great, although there was no noticable banana
smell/flavor/aroma. I only used 4 bananas.
I made a mead earlier this year and threw about 4 overripe bananas,
which were crushed with a little water and brought to 160 degrees, into
the secondary. About a month later, I racked the mead again and added
about 4 more overripe bananas (same heat w/ water routine as above),
and I did this again. Anyway, all said there were about 10 bananas
added over the course of 6 months. The OG was 1.130 and last week
the gravity was 1.035. It is CRYSTAL clear! I plan to bottle it in the next
month or so (depending on when I get motivated!) When I racked it off
the last addition of bananas last week, I had to leave some mead in the
fermenter because all of the banana funk on the bottom was clogging up
my racking cane. I filtered the funk/mead mixture and filled about 4
Grolsch bottles, chilled them, tried them and WOW! This stuff is good. It
has that young mead bite, but it is softened considerably with the banana
taste and aroma. It is very strong! I can't wait to bottle this, throw 5 or
so bottles in the crawlspace and "find" them in about 5 or 10 years!
To sum: Go For It! Make a banana beer! How about a light pilsner with
banana and vanilla? Mmmmm Any takers???
Brewfully Deadicated
MC :{P} <--Mmmmm Banana, Vanilla Ale!
------------------------------
From: Robert DeNeefe <rdeneefe@compassnet.com>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 08:54:02 -0500
Subject: alternatives to keg refrigerator
I want to start using corny kegs, but I'm not sure how to keep the
darn things cold. My wife is reluctant to put an old refrigerator
in the house for aesthetic reasons, so I am looking for alternatives.
As I'm not that mechanically inclined, complex building projects
are not an option for me. If anyone has any unique ideas how to
chill and dispense beer from corny kegs, please let me know!
By the way, this is my first post to HBD after a few weeks of lurking.
I've really learned a lot (I'm pretty much a novice) and I look
forward to learning more!
Robert
------------------------------
From: Ben McCurtain <ben@mrctr.upmc.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 10:44:32 -0400
Subject: culturing pacman
Howdy
Anyone been able to culture the little 'Pacman' critters hanging out at
the bottom of a bottle of Rogue? My culture from a bottle of Sierra
Nevada finally bit the dust (lesson learned: don't play with your sourdough
starter the same day as you play with your beer starter!) so i thought
i'd start over but with pacman this time. (yummy yummy rogue)
I'm sure I'm being impatient but yesterday am I did the usual procedure:
make a 1.04 SG pint of wort (i was out of my *properly* pressure canned pints
of wort :), cool, and drop on the remaining 1" or so of beer (plus
yeast) sitting on the bottom of a bottle of shakespeare stout, shake,
affix airlock. I suppose the same rules apply with smack packs that you
should wait an additional day for each month of age? Rogue doesn't pasteurize
or anything do they? Naaaah.. far too fine of an operation to do
something so heinous..
While I'm at it -- does anyone know if they bottle condition like we typically
do (add corn sugar while there's still yeast in suspension) or do they first
cold filter to precipitate yeast, then add yeast at priming time like Sierra
Nevada? BTW, I was surprised to learn that Sierra Nevada uses dextrose to
prime (plus a smidgen of add'l yeast) just like the rest of us... I wonder
because it seems like the population is much bigger in the bottom of a
shakespeare -- then again it's a 22oz bottle..
PS got the info about sierra nevada from our tour guide Dan. Hi Dan! wonderful
visit, can't recommend it highly enough.
TIA for insight! bacchus bless the HBD!!
Ben McCurtain
------------------------------
From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd@uchastings.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 07:49:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Oak Chips!
Well,
When I tried to oak up a wine I made, I was told (by some knowledgible
home winemakers) to use a 1 ounce package per 20 gallons. I left the
chips in for a month, and nothing, so another month went by, still
nothing. Later, discussing with some winemaking friends, we tried a next
batch with the same strength, except heated them in a little water. Much
better! Extraction of the oak flavor was better.
I can't tell you exactly how much to use, but it takes a long while (2 -
3 months). So if you do not want to wait on your beer that long, I would
try doing a low heat extraction of the oak. Adding the chips in along
with the extract.
D. Thomas
------------------------------
From: "Ed J. Basgall" <edb@chem.psu.edu>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 96 10:47:27 EDT
Subject: Re: Super-Quick Fermentations
Hi Eric:
It sounds like you're just keeping the little critters just a tad warm.
If you're making highly hopped ales, and using an ale yeast you may not
notice much flavor change. Fast fermentations are not always bad. I can make
a decent Nut-Brown Ale in about two days.
BUT, if you are trying for a lightly hopped beer, the yeast byproducts
(esters...) may give you banana and other less desirable flavors.
(this also depends on the yeast strain....)
Yeast may tolerate warm temperatures (up to ~100F) but they don't necesarily
enjoy living so hot. Try to rehydrate at ~75F, and cool your fermentor to
between 65-75F. Things wil start slower and progress slower with less
"fruity esters". Even a wet towel draped over your fermenter will cool it by
several degrees compared to the air temp. Try to ferment in a cool,
temperature stable place (dark cellar if you have one). I have even kept
my 5 gal bucket or glass carboy in a large plastic garbage can filled ~1/4
full with cool water. A couple of handfuls of ice cubes every day help to
keep the temp down. This was when I lived in Augusta, GA and had no basement.
Good luck and keep at it.
Ed Basgall
Penn State Univ.
Dept. of Chem
University Park, PA
"Beer - More than just a breakfast drink, it's a way of life"
Ed Basgall
------------------------------
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A@LILLY.COM>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 14:59:45 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Unmalted wheat extract potential
I've been unable to locate a reference for the potential
extract from unmalted wheat. Anyone have that info?
This related to making a Belgian wit, something I've seen
a number of posts about while searching. If you have some
practical advice on this style, feel free to Email me.
Thanks!!
Dave in Indy
Home of the 3-D BBB
------------------------------
From: DAVE BRADLEY IC742 6-7932 <BRADLEY_DAVID_A@LILLY.COM>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 15:22:19 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Digging Deeper re unmalted wheat extraction
OK, pertaining to my post above: I looked back at 1994 HBDs and
found lots of good advice for making a wit beer. Not to waste
bandwidth, here are the issues I found most interesting:
#1508 Phillip Seitz (p00644@psilink.com)
GREAT info on the style, ingredients, mashing.
Also a few sample recipes!
#1517 djmiller@tasc.com
Some recipes for Celis clones
#1568 A.J. deLange (A.J._deLange@csgi.com)
Some useful tips
Hope this is useful. I'd gladly repost the first (1508) if there
is interest (Phillip: are you out there?). It is a terrific note!!
Dave in Indy
Home of the 3-D BBB
------------------------------
From: "M. Todd Kirby" <mkirby@bgsm.edu>
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 1996 14:27:03 -0400
Subject: Which Wheat?
Hello All,
I'm getting prepared to brew a Wit this weekend, and a local bread bakery
currently has 2 kinds of wheat. One is a high gluten red spring hard
wheat, the other is a white spring hard (I'm assuming less gluten).
Either one is a buck a pound. Can anyone suggest which would be best for
brewing and what the differences would be between them?
Thanks,
Todd Kirby
------------------------------
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@li.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 14:40:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wheat/Starter
>I've been unable to locate a reference for the potential
>extract from unmalted wheat. Anyone have that info?
Info On Raw Wheat as seen in HBRPC11 (which came from a book somewhere)
Type: Wheat, Raw Lovibond: 2.0 S.G. Contr: 1.036 Lintner: 0
Foam promoting proteins. Protein rest recommended. Used in Wit biers
at 45% of grist and in Lambics at 30%. Contributes a permanent starch
haze to the beer.
Starter Tip:
Get a bag of DME and some 3 oz vials. Into each vial put 4 tbsps of DME
and drop in 1 hop pellet. Cap and store until you wish to make a starter.
Into about 10oz of water, dump the pre-measured vial of DME w/hop. Boil
for 10 mins and cool. You can expect a S.G. of about 1.020. The hop
pellet is included for its antiseptic qualities... This allows me to
whip together a starter in about 15 minutes.
John Varady
Boneyard Brewing Co.
http://www.netaxs.com/people/vectorsys/index.html
------------------------------
From: Rob Reed <rhreed@icdc.delcoelect.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 13:40:47 -0400 (CDT)
Subject: Protein rest in 40/60/70C mash / Sparging Rate
Charlie Scandrett <merino@buggs.cynergy.com.au> writes in HBD #2128:
> The "protein rest" (I dislike the use of that general term, it is
> misleading) in Fix's 40-*60*-70 schedule is at the top end for a
> *proteinase* rest and would only reduce High Molecular Weight Proteins to
> Medium anyway. I can't see much chance of loss of head or mouth feel
> proteins in infusion mashed beers that minimise the 45C-55C time. Lipids
> (from fast runoff shallow lauters) are a more likly culprit with head
> problems.
Charlie's post caught my eye for a couple of reasons: I recently increased my
sparge time from about 25 min. - to gather 7 gallons - to about 50-60 min. Head
retention on these five or so batches has been much better (good head retention
and good Brussel's lace). Mind you, I don't have any quantitative evidence
to support this, and BTW my yield has increased from about 28 pts./lb. to
32 pts./lb.
With regard to the protein rest in Fix's 40/60/70C mash schedule, the intent of
the 60C rest is not protein modification, although some may occur. My
understanding of his 60C/70C mash rests is to control fermentability via time
rather than trying to achieve a precise temperature in the 150-160F temp.
range. The idea is to perform two starch conversion rests, one where
primarily B-amylase is active (60C/140F) and the other where primarily
alpha-amylase is active (70C/158F). George Fix suggested a 40/50/60/70C or
50/60/70C mash schedule for lager malt mashing where a protein rest is
required or desired.
Cheers,
Rob Reed
------------------------------
From: jim.anderson@execnet.com (JIM ANDERSON)
Date: Thu, 01 Aug 96 11:07:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Aluminum/Utah/Yeast
"Keith Royster" <keith.royster@ponyexpress.com> writes:
H> There are supposedly two reasons, but I think neither are valid.
It curious to note that virtually ALL Easter egg kits say not to boil
the eggs in aluminum cookware. I suppose it's possible that this is
just a precautionary thing to avert lawsuits (a la the Alzheimer's
questions), but I'm really sort of clueless here too. But unlike you, I
play it safe and stick to SS.
- -----
Kyle Marks (kmark@tcd.net) writes:
H> I came across a link that stated in Utah you must be licensed to brew beer.
H> It also stated that homebrewers are not granted licenses.
H>
H> Is anyone familiar with the laws in Utah pertaining to homebrewing?
The first statement is true. In fact, there was an article in Private
Eye Weekly about it a couple of months ago (the article mentioned that
there were no known busts). I imagine a homebrewer *could* get a
license though, with enough time, energy, money and tolerance for
governmental bullcrap.
DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer, nor do I aspire to be one. This is not
legal advice, nor should it be interpreted as such. If you need legal
advice, you should contact a qualified attorney (if you can find one),
blah, blah, blah .... ad infinitum, ad nauseam ....
Gary McCarthy's analysis of the Mormon influence in Utah was good, and I
couldn't agree more with his comments. It's funny how they'll let you
do the "forbidden" things if you pay enough money/taxes! (BTW, Gary,
I'm also in SLC and was exiled here from Montana, where the [hard]
liquor is actually wholesaled AND retailed through the state.) "The
World is Welcome Here" tout the 2002 Olympic banners. To which I add,
"Yeah, if you're Mormon or rich." Oops, I might be getting too
political here. Or even sacrilegious, maybe, depending on one's point
of view. Sorry!
- -----
Thanks to all who responded to my yeast questions. Fortunately, both
problems had been resolved by Sat. afternoon. The 38F yeasties revived
on their own without repitching or rousing when brought back to proper
temp. I'll find out when I bottle tomorrow whether anything bad
happened or not. As for my first question, I added my stored bottle of
yeast to a quart of canned wort, and it was flocculating nicely by pitch
time. I've since rediscovered an article on bottling a parallel
generation of starters from a single smack pack, which I'll be doing
today. Up until now, I've done serial propagation.
- Jim
------------------------------
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:24 -0600
Subject: wood chips
collective homebrew conscience:
i used about the equivalent of a cup of oak chips in an i.p.a. and the
beer tasted like plywood. it went in the secondary with the dry hops.
this was a five gallon batch. unusual? this happen to anyone else?
just my $.02.
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac)
Date: Thu, 1 Aug 1996 11:32 -0600
Subject: old wyeast?
collective homebrew conscience:
i've got a couple of wyeasts in the refrigerator that i didn't use this
spring. actually, one is the wyeast special lambic brett. culture and
the other is a brewtek bavarian weizen yeast culture. they will be
6 months in the refrigerator by the time i use them.
question: has anybody used either of these when they've gotten this old,
and how did the beer turn out?
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2131
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