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HOMEBREW Digest #2136
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/08/07 PDT
Homebrew Digest Wednesday, 7 August 1996 Number 2136
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Nitrosoamines as a Carcinogen (Greg Hawley)
Larry Jones' Stout (Russell Mast)
Terminology (Jim Liddil)
fusel alcohols (Gregory King)
Re: Homebrew competion ("Caroline Duncker")
Backpacks and State laws (Kyle R Roberson)
PET ((James Williams))
RE: Beer Funk (Chris Cooper)
Breweries/brewpubs in S. Maine (Gontarek)
Re: contaminated beer ((Nigel Townsend))
Replies to my post on GABF ("Robert Waddell")
Out of the Office ("Degenhardt-Stephen")
Glass Airlock (Dennis Cabell)
Sanitizeing bottles in the oven (Steve Ensley)
Blue Whale Ale IBU info ("Robert Marshall")
Beer & Food (Carter_Dave/splp_00@me2.splp.com)
Air,Coolers ("Herb B Tuten")
RE: Funky beer, chocolate beer, ranting ((George De Piro))
Effects of aging in oak barrels & whisky ("Michael Pearson")
need dark cherry porter recipe ((Jan Luttner))
Re: Wit fermentation (Kit Anderson)
Re:Brown ales (HW McAdoo)
Sparging technique, mashout. (Ian Smith)
Re: Club Competitions at fairs ("Caroline Duncker")
hop storage (liquori@ACC.FAU.EDU)
RIMS Questions (RUSt1d?)
Stout (orion@mdc.net)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Greg Hawley <gregh@Plexus.COM>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:33:56 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Nitrosoamines as a Carcinogen
> Now I do not know how deadly nitrosamines are, or how much would
> be formed by gassing with NO2, or whether this is just lawsuit
> paranoia.
My college chemistry book, _Chemistry: The Central Science_, 3rd Edition,
Theodore Brown and H. Eugene LeMay, Jr, ISBN 0-13-128950-0, 1985, pg. 664,
has this to say on the topic of nitrites in food:
"Sodium Nitrite is used a food additive in cured meats such as hot dogs,
ham, and cold cuts. The NO2- serves two functions: It inhibits growth of
bacteria, especially Clostridium botulinum, which produces the potentially
fatal food poisoning known as botulism. The nitrite also preserves the
red color of the meat and thereby its appetizing appearance. Debate over
the continued use of nitrites in cured meat products centers on the fact
that HNO2 can react with certain organic compounds to form compounds know
as nitrosoamines. These are compounds of the type give in Figure 20.24
[see below]. These organic compounds have been shown to produce cancer in
laboratory animals. Although no human cancer has been linked to nitrites
in meat, that potential has caused the U.S. Food and Drug Administration
to reduce the limits of allowable concentrations of NO2- in foods."
R - N - N = O
|
R
Nitrosoamine
Fig 20.24: General Formula for a nitrosoamine (R = group such as CH3)
- -- gregh
Greg.Hawley@plexus.com, (414) 751-3285
For more information browse http://www.athenet.net/~dang/gregh/Welcome.html
Vanquishing the heart of evil through better software engineering.
4 Simple Machines of the Information Age: Identity, Circle, Copy and Correlate
------------------------------
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 17:03:41 -0500
Subject: Larry Jones' Stout
Larry, leave your private e-mail address next post so we don't
need to clutter the digest with repetitious suggestions.
It looks to me like you've tried a million different things. I
would recommend you do an full mash (all-grain) and use a low
temp (150F) conversion rest, and also use some unroasted barley.
It's possible that the way to get rid of those vanilla tones is
not by removing something, but by adding something that changes
the body or the dryness, and that something may be raw barley.
Use flakes, too, they're much easier. (Also, yeah, use the
Wyeast Irish ale and keep the temps low, while you're at it.)
No guarantees, just grasping at straws here. (Half-informed
stuff like this I prefer to keep off the digest, but I do
want to say it.)
- -R
------------------------------
From: Jim Liddil <JLIDDIL@AZCC.Arizona.EDU>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 15:05:13 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Terminology
I was going to comment on this before, but let it slide.
Al wrote
> From: korz@pubs.ih.lucent.com
> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 96 12:33:33 CDT
> Subject: sulphites are NOT sterilants/seeded hops/Wyeast Scottish/American
oak
>
> Dave writes:
> >AlK says that sulfites in acid media ( like fruits and juices) don't
> sterilize.
> >I have read this several times here in the HBD and wonder what the origin is
> of
> >this statement, as I have read for many years in many books that acidic
> >sulfites are sterilants. <snip> Please provide a primary reference.
>
> On the contrary, I ask you to provide a non-amateur reference that says
> they are *sterilants*. There are hundreds of pieces of bad advice in the
> dozens of amateur beer and winemaking books. I am no more likely to find
> a professional text or biology book that says that sulphites do not sterilize
> than I am to find a physics text that says force does not equal mass times
> acceleration.
I would first refer those of you who care to an article in Zymurgy John Palmer
and I wrote on cleaners and sanitizers. I think it appeared in 1995 sometime.
And if you really want the REAL answers on terminology and what is or is not a
disinfectant, sterilant, sanitizer ad nauseum then I refer you to
"Disinfection, Sterilization and Preservation" edited by Block. As Al points
out terminology is widely misused here and elsewhere.
Jim
Just Say No to Wyeast
www.u..arizona/~jliddil
www.mutato.com
------------------------------
From: Gregory King <GKING@ARSERRC.Gov>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 18:37:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: fusel alcohols
In HBD #2135 Al K asks:
>I would be very interested in your source regarding the alleged extraction
>of fusel oils from the whiskey by the charcoal. I don't see why there is
>any incentive for the alcohols to pass into the charcoal. Furthermore,
>what's so special about fusel oils (aka fusel alcohols, aka higher alcohols)
>that they, and not ethanol, would be extracted from the whiskey? Try to be
>brief.
There is a simple explanation for this. Whiskey is a polar medium and
charcoal is a nonpolar medium. A natural partitioning takes place at the
whiskey/charcoal interface. The more polar molecules will tend to stay dis-
solved in the whiskey, while the more nonpolar molecules will tend to adsorb
to the charcoal. This is the "like dissolves like" catchphrase many of you
are familiar with from organic chemistry classes.
Both ethanol and the fusel alcohols possess the polar hydroxyl group, but the
fusel alcohols carry around bigger pieces of nonpolar baggage (i.e. the rest
of the molecule), and thus have more of a tendency to adsorb to the charcoal.
This is the same separation principle involved in passing water through a char-
coal filter to remove the nonpolar compounds (e.g. chlorine, residual organic
compounds) that are dissolved in it.
Greg King
gking@arserrc.gov
------------------------------
From: "Caroline Duncker" <caroline@aob.org>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:58:02 -0600
Subject: Re: Homebrew competion
Bob, the only number I have for that competition is (415) 892-7196. If
that is the number that is disconnected you may want to try a number
from the past years. This competition travels from southern California
to northern California and it is held twice a year. The other numbers I
have (909) 880-6275 or (909) 481-9680. Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Caroline Duncker
Project Coordinator
American Homebrewers Association (303) 447-0816 x 116 (voice)
736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 (fax)
PO Box 1679 caroline@aob.org (e-mail)
Boulder, CO 80306-1679 info@aob.org (aob info)
U.S.A. http://www.aob.org/aob (web)
------------------------------
From: Kyle R Roberson <roberson@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 16:16:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Backpacks and State laws
The problem with the backpacks at the GABF is more than
likely rooted in State law. Unfortuately, these are different
in all 50 states. In some, the whole idea of the GABF would
probably be illegal. Here in Washington, it is nicer to have
festivals. Next Saturday, I'm going to the Prosser Wine and
Food Fair. There is wine and micro-beer tasting by script and
you can buy bottles or cases of the ones you like to take home.
In Denver, you can't do this evidently. All beer in the festival
grounds needs to be consumed there or destroyed. The literature
that I have on the festival (for brewers) says that the volunteers
will help finish off what's left since it can't go back to
distributors or be taken off the premises. It's a state or local
law.
So, this brings me to my point. Who says the Great AMERICAN Beer
Festival has to be in Denver, Colorado all the time? Why not go
to Seattle or Portland? The Great BRITISH Beer Festival moves
around from city to city each year. I'm sure the festival
people could find a city that has friendlier laws and just as
fine a facility. I think the festival could make more money if
the beer could be sold for take out at full retail (GABF seems
to loose money every few years). It could do this in some states.
Kyle
------------------------------
From: texan@mindspring.com (James Williams)
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 20:23:37 -0400
Subject: PET
A recent article in the Wall Street Journal reported that some breweries in
Austria, England, and even the U.S. are testing the use of PET
(polyethylene terephthalate) bottles.
This got me to wondering about the pros and cons of plastic bottles. Having
never used PET, the obvious advantage to me would be they are lightweight
and don't shatter if dropped.
What are the collective's experiences with PET? Since it is clear, is
skunking a danger like with clear glass? Is it difficult to clean and do
tastes linger? Will it hold proper CO2 pressure and for how long? Do you
bottle condition or must you use a counterpressure filler? Is PET
sufficiently oxygen-barrier?
Private e-mail is fine and I will post a summary, or if you think the
interest is wide enough, post to the HBD.
TIA,
James Williams
South Atlanta Association of Zymurgists
http://www.mindspring.com/~texan/SAAZ.html
------------------------------
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper@a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 21:02:51 -0400
Subject: RE: Beer Funk
Hi all!
In HBD 2135 Gregory writes about losing several batches to a "funk".
Some time back I went through a simular experience and yes losing
a batch takes an emotional toll, oh the utter sorrow all those
little yeastie beasties working, living, reproducing, dying all
for not! The way I put an end to my beer "funk" was by replacing
every piece of plastic and hose in my brewery (I think it was my
large blow-off tube that was the cause) while this cost a few $$
the results were worth it. I now use glass carboys, a glass blow-off
tube and replace my racking tube and hose about eveey dozen batches
or so.
Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Pine Haven Brewery <--
ccooper@a2607.cc.msr.hp.com --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <--
------------------------------
From: Gontarek <gontarek@voicenet.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 07:28:48 -0500
Subject: Breweries/brewpubs in S. Maine
Hello All,
I will keep this brief: My wife and I will be vacationing in Southern
Maine next week (Ogunquit), and I would like recommendations on
breweries or brewpubs to visit while we are there. Private email
please. Thanks very much.
Rick Gontarek
gontarek@voicenet.com
Owner/Brewmaster of The Major Groove Picobrewery
Trappe, PA
------------------------------
From: nigelt@delm.tas.gov.au (Nigel Townsend)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:34:48 +1000
Subject: Re: contaminated beer
Gregory C. Furlich on Tue, 6 Aug 96 said that his beer " has the funk has
the funk". He also said "The beer usually becomes infected during racking,
either to a secondary or a bottling bucket".
I suggest you buy another length of racking tube. For the small amount of
$ involved, its a good start to reduce the risk. If you rack through a
tap (unusual but possible) give this a good scrub or soak in bleach/idophor
etc.
If this doesnt work and you are satisfied that the fermenters are as clean
as you can get them, try alternating the room that you use for racking in
case there is a bug in the air. I have a vague memory that there was a
previous thread in which someone believed the reason he had several
infections was that he worked in the kitchen and there were "bugs" on the
grain the family used for bread making. They were not a problem for the
bread, but that they cross infected the brew through the air. Cannot offer
any other suggestions.
Nigel Townsend
Hobart, Tasmania
------------------------------
From: "Robert Waddell" <V024971@Tape.StorTek.Com>
Date: 6 Aug 96 18:51:00 MDT
Subject: Replies to my post on GABF
Collective:
I just posted the wrong message, and as I don't know how to cancel
a post, I sent a note to Shawn to see if he could cancel it before
it went out. In case he doesn't get my note in time or in some
other way is unable to cancel it, here is the one that I meant to
send. Again, sorry for the bandwidth.
<<
Well, I received 12 replies to my LONG post about not being able to
bring backpacks into the GABF. Sorry it was so lengthy, but I was
very upset at the time and I was working it out on the keyboard and I
didn't even think to look at how many bytes it was before posting it.
I got 6 replies that were very sympothetic with my rantings and most
of the other 6 were only critical with my approach to the problem and
that if I continued to have the harsh feelings that I was experiencing
that I wouldn't be able to enjoy the festival. I am going to attend
the Rocky Mt. Bluegrass Festival tomarrow through Sunday and will
take a couple of kegs of weissen with me so I'm sure I'll have a much
better attitude when I get back. I'll try to respond to the personal
E-mail on Monday. (Thanks guys)
Our Digest Janitor sent a note on the subject, a quote follows:
>Brewing Matters has a very hard time getting a liquor license for the
>GABF, so if The Police (the enforcers of such laws) recommend
>something, we pretty much have to do it. In fact some ATF person last
>year decided to interpret some wierd fine print legalese and disallow
>the GABF at the last minute last year, period! They didn't even care
>that we'd been allowed to have the GABF for the previous 13 years. It
>was only through some very hard work by Marcia that that problem was
>resolved. Needless to say, it was quite an unnerving experience for
>the GABF organizers.
>The AOB and Brewing Matters are non-profit organizations. The AOB is a
>501(c)3 educational organization and Brewing Matters has applied for
>501(c)3 status. Neither organization is allowed to allow profit to
>"inure to the benifit of private individuals" or for-profit
>corporations and the laws are very strict.
>Unfortunatly we neither make, nor enforce the laws. Whichever of the
>above methods is followed by the Denver Police and the ATF, we don't
>have any control :-(
>- shawn
The rest of his note was equally congenial. Now that I know that the
AOB is not involved with the Festival I guess I owe them an appology.
I would like to see a diagram of the things that the AOB is involved in
and what the "pecking order" is, just out of curiosity though. I don't
know who or what the "Brewing Matters" organisation is, and I already
know more than I want to about the ATF.
Sorry about the wasted bandwidth, and thanks for the replies.
I *L*O*V*E* my [Pico] system. 'Cept for that
gonging noise it makes when my wife throws it
off the bed at night.
Women...
--Pat Babcock
*** It's never too late to have a happy childhood! ***
******************************************************************************
V024971@TAPE.STORTEK.COM / Opinions expressed are usually my own but
Robert J. Waddell / perhaps shared (though not by my employer).
Owner & Brewmaster Barchenspieder Brew-Haus
*******************************************************************************
------------------------------
From: "Degenhardt-Stephen" <MSMAIL4.DEGENHAS@TSOD.LMIG.COM>
Date: 06 Aug 1996 20:19:20 GMT
Subject: Out of the Office
I am on vacation. I'll be back around August 14th.
(This is a pre-recorded message.)
_______________________________________________________________________________
From: UNIX.HOMEBREW on Tue, Aug 6, 1996 8:27 PM
Subject: Homebrew Digest #2135 (Tuesday, 6 August 1996)
To: homebrew-digest@aob.org; Laughlin-Linda; Degenhardt-Stephen
File(s): MEMO 08.06.96 20.19
------------------------------
From: Dennis Cabell <cabell@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 1996 22:18:07 -0400
Subject: Glass Airlock
Does anyone know where I could find a glass airlock? I want to be able
to boil the airlock and stopper for sterilization when culturing yeast
instead of using a sanitizer (I have ordered an erlenmeyer flask for
boiling starters). None of the plastic airlocks I have tried have
stood up to the heat well. Pyrex would be preferable. Send E-mail and
I will post a summary.
Thanks
- --
Dennis Cabell
Sterling Heights, MI
cabell@ix.netcom.com
------------------------------
From: Steve Ensley <steve@globaldialog.com>
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 1996 22:20:08 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Sanitizeing bottles in the oven
I have occasionally seen comments about sanitizeing bottles by putting
foil over the neck and stacking them in the oven and heating them up.
What is the procedure for this. Specifically how hot and how long?
Anyone have any comments on this technique?
//////////////////////////////////////////
+----------------------------------------+/
: Steve Ensley steve@globaldialog.com :/
+----------------------------------------+
------------------------------
From: "Robert Marshall" <robertjm@hooked.net>
Date: Sat, 3 Aug 1996 20:34:22 +0000
Subject: Blue Whale Ale IBU info
After seeing all the stuff running around the pages of HBD about Blue
Whale and whether or not it is "drinkable" and just how many IBUs it
has, I E-Mailed Don Gortmiller, head brewer at Pacific Coast Brewing,
and this is the result:
I wrote:
>Dear Don,
>
>In the last few Homebrew Digests there's been a thread going on about
>whether to believe the hopping schedule, which Zymurgy printed in
>that Malt Extract issue.
>
>[snip]
>
>Anyway, was just wondering which method (Rager, Garetz, etc.) you
>guys are using to calculate the IBUs of your products?
Don responded with:
>It was originally calculated at slightly over 100 IBU using Brewers
Calculator.
> I recently downloaded Brewers Workshop and BrewWizard Recipe Calculator and
>got similar results using Rager, Garetz, and any other method I could
>find. Mr. Garetz (from Hoptech) says that none of the formulas are very
accurate
>with the high gravities used and the high hopping rates. The 65-70 is
>a subjective number comparing to other beers.
Anyway take it for what its worth. I still say the beer's good
stuff!!
Later,
Robert Marshall
robertjm@hooked.net
homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm
- ----------------------------------------------
"In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity
of a prince, but by Bacchus, it is true
that the brewer is king."
Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916)
Flemish writer
- ------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Carter_Dave/splp_00@me2.splp.com
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 96 08:08:20 -0400
Subject: Beer & Food
Hello All,
Does anybody know of a source for recipies,(food recipies), using beer.
I know beer is food, but I have a really good pale ale on tap that goes
great with most anything off the grill. Thats why I thought if I could
incorporate the beer with the food, then I really would have something!
I was thinking along the lines of maybe a marinate for steaks or ? I've
heard of cooking brats in beer, anyone ever tried this? I know the
collective must have some ideas.
Sorry if this is not completely homebrew related, but if anyone knows
beer its you folks.
Thanks, Dave
------------------------------
From: "Herb B Tuten" <herb@zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:51:08 -0500
Subject: Air,Coolers
Greetings, all.
This weekend I thieved some porter from a carboy to see how the
secondary is doing. It was delicious and I will bottle it soon.
Upon reinserting the stopper and airlock, the question came to me-
have I now allowed air to fill the headspace which is a bit larger
now that I've taken some beer out ?? I've never thieved before,
but I know it's a common way to evaluate fermentation. Without
active bubbling, is there a concern of leaving fresh air in there ??
Second question - Has anyone bought a 5 gal Gott for mashing and
later wished they had 'Gotten' (sorry) the 10 gal instead; or
vice-versa. I have heard that initially getting a 10 gal is good.
Others say a 10 is too big for a 5 gal batch. I've read the faqs,
just looking for some personal experiences.
Cheers,
Herb
herb@zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:39:01 -0700
Subject: RE: Funky beer, chocolate beer, ranting
Greg Furlich writes about his funky beer. The symptoms you describe
are caused by infection (as he already knows). However, just because
the beer tastes OK at bottling doesn't mean it hasn't been infected
before then. Sometimes the wild microbes that infect your beer aren't
able to get going until after your yeast has quieted down. The
pitched yeast are able to outcompete them until they run out of food
(fermentable sugars, other nutrients). Once the yeast are out of
food, the wild microbes can get going on the stuff the brewer's yeast
couldn't metabolize (dextrins, etc.).
The result is beer that tastes fine when it's young, but becomes funky
with age. Either drink it VERY young (like Hoegaarden's white beer
was in the old days), or improve sanitation.
You must examine ALL aspects of your sanitation, not just bottling
time.
------------------------------
John Penn writes about chocolate beer with white stuff on the surface.
Sounds like an infection. I've brewed with large quantities of
chocolate (2 lbs baker's/4 gallons), and not seen that. I seem to
remember a recent post describing the same infection, but can't recall
it specifically. Keep in mind that not every invading microbe will
destroy your beer in the same way. If your "lucky" the beer may be
drinkable for a while, especially if you keep it cold.
By the way, don't the acetobacters cause a film on the beer's surface?
-------------------------------
I hate to do this, and will keep it VERY short. PLEASE STOP USING
THIS FORUM FOR NON-BREWING ISSUES. This IS NOT the place for
discussing the policies of the GABF, BATF, or anybody else!
I have sent private E-mails to offenders, but new people keep doing
this, and I can't keep up! PLEASE STOP IT!
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: "Michael Pearson" <michaelp@i-link.net>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:30:18 -0500
Subject: Effects of aging in oak barrels & whisky
First Rob asked, then David replied:
>The fusel oils are extracted from the whiskey into this charcoal...
I wonder what this would do to hop flavor and aroma? I want to "lay in" a
high-alcohol spruce/spiced barleywine this Fall for serving in Fall '97 but
I'm concerned how it will age in oak, will I have any flavor or aroma (not
much... but I like it...) left when I tap it?
Also, while I'd do a standard primary and secondary in glass, I assume that
there wouldn't need to be much done to the wood to sterilize it if you're
packing in 12-15% alcohol. But has anyone tried this? This would be almost
a 10-12 month storage... I'm also a bit concerned regarding the ability of
the barrel to stand up to the aging... but that *is* what they are made
for, no?
>I do wonder how the old scotches stored this way compare to today's?
If you're seriously interested, you should try The Macallen single-malt.
It's aged in French sherry casks... adds a very nice color and hint of
flavor. You can check out their website too, at :
http://www.regionlink.com/grampian/macallan/
Thanks for anyone's input on the casking question above...
:) [: :> {: :\ <: :P o: :x |: :} /: :b {; :) <: :] (:
Michael Pearson I-Link Worldwide Inc
Fax4Less Beta Test Manager (512) 502-9511 vox
michaelp@i-link.net (512) 502-9577 fax
------------------------------
From: jluttner@scoot.netis.com (Jan Luttner)
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 10:30:43 -0400
Subject: need dark cherry porter recipe
Greetings Fellow Brewers/Brewsters:
A while ago, at a great little brew pub in Portsmouth, NH, I had a chance to
try their most remarkable dark cherry porter. The flavor was reminiscent of
my father's dark cherry cigars...just a wonderfaul aroma and taste.
By any chance, have any of you brewed such a beer? I'd really like to find
a recipe for this type of porter.
Many thanks.
Jan Luttner
Hooksett, NH
------------------------------
From: Kit Anderson <kit@maine.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:31:29 -0400
Subject: Re: Wit fermentation
Fred Hardy responded to Mike Kidulich
>> Date: Mon, 05 Aug 1996 04:18:45 GMT
>> Subject: Wyeast 3944, or How much longer does this go on??
>>
>> I Brewed a Belgian Wit end of June. I pitched a 1 qt. Starter of
>> Wyeast 3944 (Belgian White Ale), to well aerated wort. Got extremely
>> vigorous fermentation, started in about 6 hours, but the beer has been
>> in the secondary 5 weeks, and is still fermenting! I have a layer of
>> foam still on the beer, and a continuous stream of bubbles coming from
>> the bottom of the carboy. The temp is around 72F, and the OG has gone
>> from 1.050 to 1.018. Is this slow of a fermentation normal for this
>No, but neither is it unusual. I had one go 8 weeks in the secondary. I
>was ready to throw it out until I tasted it.
I am astonished at these times. I have brewed a lot of wit and consistantly
score high 30's to low 40's. Greg Noonan gave it a 40 recently. The beer
drops from 1.048 to 1.010 in 3 days and goes into the keg at 7 days. It is
acidified on day 8 and has been judged as early as day 9. A very astute
judge said that the beer could use more time for the acid to round out and
gave it 3rd place in best of show. By day 11, it was perfect.
All the wit yeasts I have used (BrewTek is my favorite)are on steroids and
give a very vigorous, quick fermentation. You guys are doing something
REALLY wrong. I'd bet on a wild yeast infection.
_____
Kit "secondary? we don't need no steenking secondary" Anderson
Bath, Maine- kit@maine.com
The Maine Beer Page- http://www.maine.com/brew
------------------------------
From: HW McAdoo <hwmcadoo@aristotle.net.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 08:47:27 -0600
Subject: Re:Brown ales
I have been a homebrewer for many years but have tried to keep it
very simple. I have some questions relating to Killians Irish Brown
Ale:
1.Relating to type. Is Irish Brown a specific type?
2.Is there a simple way to recreate this ale as homebrew?
Also is there a source for replacement Cornelius keg fittings (inlet
and outlet fittings that go on the keg)
Thanks
Mickey
------------------------------
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs@netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 08:38:27 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: Sparging technique, mashout.
A question for all you all-grainers out there ! When sparging is it
better to simply drain the entire mash tun of sweet wort and THEN begin
sparging or is it better to SLOWLY drain the wort while adding sparge
water to the top of the mash tun ? It seems to be that it might be better
(and faster) to just drain the wort, add hot sparge water and then slowly
sparge away for the next 30 minutes. Anyone tried this ?
I usually mash for 3 or 4 hours (more convenient for my schedule on
weekends). Do I still need to do a 170 F mashout or can I just go ahead
and start sparging since all enzyme activity should surely be finished by
this time ?
Ian Smith
isrs@rela.uucp.netcom.com
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From: "Caroline Duncker" <caroline@aob.org>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 10:17:21 -0600
Subject: Re: Club Competitions at fairs
Keith,
The AHA sanctions homebrew competitions and puts out a packet that
helps organizers run their competitions. I have a database of all past
competitions sanctioned through us which includes a fair number of
county fairs. Let me know if you are interested in sanctioning with us.
You may receive the application, information and guidelines from our
e-mail when you ask about AHA santioning at the prompt of info@aob.org,
or I can mail you an application. Also, let me know if you'd like me to
give you some names and contact information for county fairs. Are you
interested in state fairs as well?
Cheers,
Caroline Duncker
Project Coordinator
American Homebrewers Association (303) 447-0816 x 116 (voice)
736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 (fax)
PO Box 1679 caroline@aob.org (e-mail)
Boulder, CO 80306-1679 info@aob.org (aob info)
U.S.A. http://www.aob.org/aob (web)
------------------------------
From: liquori@ACC.FAU.EDU
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 1996 10:51:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: hop storage
I use hop pellets (from those nifty foil bags). How can I preserve the
leftover pellets? Is a ziploc refrigerated bag sufficient? How long will
they last?
Thanks...Kevin
liquori@acc.fau.edu
------------------------------
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@li.com>
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:49:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RIMS Questions
RIMS Questions:
I am torn between using a sanke keg or a Gott cooler as a mash tun.
I will be using BrewCraft's Temperature Controller and Heating unit
with a March pump for heating/recirculating the mash.
With this setup:
Would heat loss be a problem on an uninsulated sanke?
What's the max capacity of a 10 gallon Gott (lbs of grain)?
What kind of hose do RIMS users prefer?
Where can I get high temp hose cheap? Anyone have some for sale?
Has anyone tried using a sump pump (or toliet bowl) type float to
regulate the sparge water level in the mash tun?
When sparging, is there any advantage to draining off the first runnings
from the tun, adding sparge water, recirculating and repeating the process
till kettle is at desired volume?
When chilling the wort, has anyone tried recirculating the wort through
a counterflow chiller until the desired temperature is reached?
------------------------------
From: orion@mdc.net
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 12:56:57 -0400
Subject: Stout
>From: Larry Jones
>Date: Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:11:28 -0600
>Subject: Stout
>
>I have been trying for about three and half years to brew a dry stout
>that resembles the flavor of Beamish, Murphey's, or Guinness. They all
>three have that very bitter dry roastd barley flavor. Many American
>Micobrewed stouts have aftertastes of too much hops, too much malt, too
>sweet etc. I realize that nitrogenated heads change the flavor in ales
>but I have noticed that even in the Guinness and Beamish carbonated
>bottle versions that there is a distinctively dryer flavor. In all my
>attempts to homebrew such a stout I have usually been plagued by an
>aftertaste that is too malty or vanilla like. Here is what I have tried
>different after much advice to rememdy it still no success.
Larry,
My buddy, Andy Q, and I have also been looking for the perfect Guiness
lookalike. We spent weeks pouring over recipes from all sorts of sources. As
we gathered data, there seemed to be some similarities in some of the better
looking recipes. Fortunately, for us, many of the references were for
partial grain type brews.
Here's our recipe for the stout that we like a LOT! :
Hopeless Condition Oatmeal StoutThis recipe is the original creation of
Orville Deutchman and Andrew Quinzani, and was first brewed at Q-Brew
Brewery on June 20, 1996 ( a special day, indeed!). It was the very first
attempt at an oatmeal stout, and combined the best suggestions for
ingredients and technique from a multitude of sources. It is a partial grain
recipe. It was developed as a 6 gallon recipe.
Ingredients (six gallon batch)
1 1/4 pounds of quick (cut and rolled) oats
2 pounds, 6-row pale malted barley
1/2 pound crystal malt
1/4 pound dextrine malt
1/2 pound chocolate malt
1/4 pound roasted barley
4 pounds light diastatic liquid malt extract
4 teaspoons gypsum
1 oz bullion hops
1 oz willamette hops
1/2 oz fuggle hops
1 1/2 packages of ale yeast (Irish) <1084 Wyeast Irish?>
Proceedure
Place 5 1/2 quarts of water in a pot. Add 2 teaspoons of gypsum, and stir
(gypsum won't completely dissolve).
Place malted grains (6-row pale, crystal, dextrine, chocolate, and roasted
barley) in a grain bag along with 1 1/4 pounds of oats, and place in the pot.
Add heat slowly and carefully to raise the temp to 130 degrees.
Hold at 130 degrees for 1/2 hour.
Add an additional 3 quarts of warm water (approx 130 degrees) to the pot.
(8 1/2 quarts total now)
Add 2 pounds of diastatic liquid malt extract, stirring thoroughly, and
raise temp to 150 degrees.
Hold at 150 degrees for an additional 15 minutes.
Stir in the additional 2 teaspoons of gypsum into an additional 2 quarts of
water (150 degrees) in a separate pot, and then add to the pot. (10 1/2
quarts <2 1/4 gallons>total water now)
Raise the temp to 158 degrees, and hold for 15 minutes.
At this point, the extraction process should be complete, so sparge the bags
of grain with 1 1/2 gallons of 170 degree water. This brings the total in
the pot to 3 3/4 gallons, or 16 1/2 quarts.
Remove the pot from the heat and add remaining 2 pounds of diastatic liquid
malt extract, and stir well to dissolve.
Raise the heat on the pot until a rolling boil is achieved.
Add 1 oz bullion hops
At 30 minutes into the boil (30 minutes left), add 1 oz willamette hops
At 45 minutes into the boil (15 minutes left), add 1/2 oz fuggle hops, and
1/4 teaspoon Irish Moss.
Remove any hot break as it develops!
At the end of the boil, remove the pot from the stove, and chill with a wort
chiller to 110 degrees.
Place 1 1/4 gallons (5 quarts) of cold tap water in the 6 gallon primary.
Strain wort through previously rinsed grain bag, into the primary, to remove
cold break.
Check temp to assure that it is near to 72 degrees (not much over 80
degrees). Record temp:
Check specific gravity and record:
Stir vigorously to incorporate lots of oxygen.
Add yeast, and seal with cover and air lock.
Continued
After a week or so (maybe less?), transfer to secondary carboy. Record
specific gravity:
When final gravity is about 1.011-1.015 (a bit higher than some ales...), or
when no fermenting is at all present, it is time to keg and enjoy! Record
final gravity:
Final Notes: It may be OK to do the initial partial mash by just bringing
mash temp up to 150 degrees for 1/2 hour, and then adding 2 pounds of
diastatic for 1/2 hour, and then just going to full boil. However, it was
felt that closely following the suggestion of Charlie Papazian was prudent
for the first try. While he may not even get any of this brew, this recipe
was developed at the urging of Mike (Mr. Toast) Landry. The goal was
somewhere between Mill City's Oatmeal Stout, and Guiness Stout.
Taste Test Results: Reduce the amount of Roasted Barley to 1/8 pound to get
rid of the burnt taste.
Hope you try it, and enjoy it!
Orville Deutchman
Orville Deutchman
Brewer of Down Under Ale!
Hobby Brewing at its Finest!
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End of Homebrew Digest #2136
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