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HOMEBREW Digest #2129
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/07/30 PDT
Homebrew Digest Tuesday, 30 July 1996 Number 2129
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Coors Does the Right Thing (Jack Schmidling)
BrewDisaster ("Braam Greyling")
State fairs/homebrew competitions (lmatt)
What to do with Ginseng Root? (zentner@combination.com)
Kevin's Water (KennyEddy@aol.com)
Pumps (Schwab_Bryan@CCMAIL.ncsc.navy.mil)
Cooking with beer (Ted Sadler/VENTANA)
Re: Beer from wood (Bill Giffin)
Kevin's Water Part Four (KennyEddy@aol.com)
filtering ((John W. Carpenter))
Identifying a contaminant ("David R. Lubar")
Ring-Burners II (Jim Overstreet)
Thanks ("Michel J. Brown")
No more corny,s (THaby@swri.edu)
Can you decoct if you don't lager? ("Michael R. Swan")
Re: Homebrewing unlawful in Utah? ((Gary McCarthy))
HELP: Ph Probe Restoration (Jim Overstreet)
Re: Temperature Measurement for Homebrewing (RUSt1d?)
HBD Size/Limits ("Houseman, David L TR")
All wheat, all the time. (Russell Mast)
RE: the real deal on mashing? (Steve Alexander)
Neophyte ("McLaughlin,Bob")
Advice for 5L mini-kegs? ("Paul Kensler (SMI)")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jack Schmidling <arf@mc.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 20:10:21 -0700
Subject: Coors Does the Right Thing
Time to stop bad mouthing Coors beer and start looking forward to
vastly improved beer.
We were flattered by a phone call from the Coors Purchasing Dept wherein
they ordered a MALTMILL(TM) for the engineering department.
When I asked if they were going to start experimenting with malt in
their beer, the purchasing agent was very non-committal. I let it pass
and just reminded him that if they really get serious, we have a MMII
for the really big time users.
So now I have to re-word my ad from, "For the serious homebrewer or the
small brewery" to include "mega-breweries".
Gosh, it's hard to be humble.
js
- --
Visit our WEB pages: http://dezines.com/@your.service/jsp/
------------------------------
From: "Braam Greyling" <acg@knersus.nanoteq.co.za>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 13:24:57 +200
Subject: BrewDisaster
Hello
I wonder if you remember that I was asking questions about converting
kegs to a brewery. Well last night I thought Ill give my setup a try.
What a nightmare.
First, I had to work outside in the cold because gas is too dangerous
inside the house.When I got outside it started to get dark and I
realised there is not enough light. Armed with a torch and a bedlamp
I started. I poured water into the hot liquor tank. No problem.
Started the flame and everything. The water got hot and I was feeling
real good. When it was the correct temperature I made what I believe
my first mistake. (would like comments on this). I threw in the
grains into the keg with the false bottom my false bottom has got
holes drilled into it). What I believe to have done wrong was that I
did NOT put water in the mashtun before I threw the grains in. all
the dry grains went sitting in each and every hole of the false
bottom.I did not realise this before I started sparging. It was a
nightmare to control the temperature because there was a nice air
pocket between the liquid and the bottom of the keg. Anyway after the
mash I started sparging. Opened the ball valve and started to wait.
Wait, wait wait.... Nothing happened. Not a single drop. Then I
realised what I must have done. I went into the house. Grabbed my old
plastic two bucket sparger and poured the whole mash into this
bucket.The sparge also got stuck here but after I have cut the grain
into blocks with a knife it started to flow.
My girlfriend arrived at this time. She helped me with the sparge.She
actually gave me a few good ideas. Then I started the boil.
While I was boiling I cleaned the fermentation buckets etc.
No problem. My girlfriend got tired of watching me running in and
out the house and decided to leave. Almost at the end of the boil.
I walked with her. When I came back.Guess: right. BOILOVER.
Luckily not too much. I cleaned up again and poured the wort into the
two fermentation buckets. I dont have a chiller yet. I put the
two buckets into the swimming pool to cool. I also started a yeast
starter here sometime. It did not start.Well I thought so.I use an
old plastic bottle that can take enormous pressure. Because I
only have two bubblers I must open and close the bottle to release
CO2. Then I carried my buckets into the house. It was not ready for
the yeast (too hot).My dog sniffed around and decided to take
ownership of one of the buckets. Luckily I caught him before he could
mark it. At that time I decided that the starter is dead. I closed
the bottle and got some other yeast which I placed next to the
buckets.I went to sleep. This morning I got up late because I went to
sleep 1:30. I completely forgot about the yeast until I had to go.
I rushed into the room with the wort. The dead starter got alive
during the night. The bottle looked like a balloon. I realised I
could use this yeast. Carefully I opened the bottle. PSSSSSST.
Next moment I was spraying the whole room with the starter.
My clothes and everything was full of yeast. Luckily I got about 50%
into the fermentation vessels. I had to put on new clothes after
this. When I rushed into my bedroom (I was VERY late by now)
I had a glimpse of my brewing book. The JOY of homebrewing.
It made me think.
Thought I would share this with you.
Was it wrong to throw in the grain before the water into the mashtun
I just realised I forgot to aerate the wort.Oh no.
Next time Ill make sure to brew on a weekend when I have got time.
Cheers
Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer
Nanoteq (Pty) Ltd
tel. +27 (12) 665-1338 fax +27 (12) 665-1343
- ---- 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case ----
- ---- coincidence ????? ----
------------------------------
From: lmatt <lmatt@nando.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 07:30:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: State fairs/homebrew competitions
The CARBOY (Cary-Apex-Raleigh Brewers of Yore) homebrew club is
interested in promoting a homebrew competition as a part of the North
Carolina State Fair in 1997. Premium books for all craft contests have
already been published for 1996 and we are too late to include this in
the 1996 fair in September.
My question to the collective. How many US state fairs include
homebrew competitions as a portion of their fair? If you have
information on how it was set up, who controls it, contact persons or
organizations with emails/addresses/or phone numbers. Any information
may be emailed to me and I'll post pertinent results.
Our club already conducts the Shamrock Open which will be held on
March 15th, 1997 but we would like to promote our chosen craft in a
venue where masses, especially more rural masses, would visit, ask
questions, and join our numbers. The NC State Fair annually draws close
to 900,000 in a 10 day event. Thanks for your help.
Larry Matthews
Raleigh, NC
------------------------------
From: zentner@combination.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 06:43:03 +0500
Subject: What to do with Ginseng Root?
Last weekend, I discovered a hidden treasure of about 300g of whole white
ginseng root in my kitchen and remembered that I had no idea what to do
with it. Anyone got any ideas brewing or otherwise (send direct email
for the otherwise) of what I can do with this and what it will do to what
I brew?
Mike Zentner
zentner@combination.com
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 08:37:07 -0400
Subject: Kevin's Water
Kevin asks:
<<Here are the questions:
1) The city did not have a figure for CO3, some information I found via the
internet said to multiply my Alkalinity by 1.22 (if my PH was between 7
and 9). Is this correct, or close at least? >>
It's right on if all your alkalinity comes from carbonate, which is probably
not totally true but probably IS close enough.
<<2) Is there any other info I need? >>
For brewing tis is probably enough.
<<3) Any suggestions on the quality of the water and it's suitability for
various
styles? >>
With such high alkalinity, stouts and other dark ales are about all you'll be
able to do (if mashing). Further, if your pH doesn't fully drop into the
low-5's, you may need to add more calcium -- gypsum would be OK since your
SO4 is fairly low, but CaCl2 would be good to.
You Mg is pretty high which might impart a bitter taste.
I think your water will make a less-than-perfect brew, but give it a whirl
and see what *you* think.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
4) I plan on removing my chlorine by using a charcoal filter or through
boiling, what will this do to the chemistry of my water?
------------------------------
From: Schwab_Bryan@CCMAIL.ncsc.navy.mil
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 07:27:21 CDT
Subject: Pumps
Hey I was discussing brewing techniques with a fellow brewer and this
guy informs me that an easier alternative to the "Carbonator" is from
a small pump that can be used with 2 - 3 liter plastic Soda bottles
which is purchased from stores such as kitchen supply houses. Does
anyone out there know if this is true, and does anyone out there have
any experience with these pumps, positive or negative that they are
willing to share?
Thanks
Bryan
------------------------------
From: Ted Sadler/VENTANA <Ted_Sadler/VENTANA.ITP@lgate.vmedia.com>
Date: 30 Jul 96 8:54:31 EDT
Subject: Cooking with beer
Mark Garthwaite wrote:
[snip]
>The article describes a book called, "Famous Chefs Cook With Beer" by
>W. Scott Griffiths and Christopher Finch. (Doubleday $25). I'm on my way
>to the bookstore!
[snip]
If you (or anyone else reading this) came up empty at the local bookstores, try
www.amazon.com and do a search on:
Famous Chefs (And Other Characters) Cook With Beer
They have it for 22.50 but then there's S&H charges. Of course, while you're
there, you can click on one of the categories below the book description and
you will probably find some other books on beer that interest you. The S&H
charge gets better the more books you buy. They'll also have the book to you in
less than a week which is much faster than I've ever had a bookstore get a
special order.
Insert standard disclaimer--> Not an employee, they don't pay me anything, just
a satisfied customer.
Ted Sadler
Strength is the ability to break a piece of chocolate into four pieces
and only eat one piece.
------------------------------
From: Bill Giffin <billg@maine.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:09:53 -0500
Subject: Re: Beer from wood
Good morning.
>>>>Al K says:
This may be true, but I think the article you read was wrong about several
things. First of all, I am willing to bet that most barrels used for beer
or wine are uncoated. Our first stop on the tour of Tadcaster Brewery
(Samuel Smith's) was in the cooper's shop and the first question I asked
was are the casks coated. The answer was no
<<<<
Pilsner Urquell used pitch on the insides of the caskes that they used to
condition the beer. Pitch was poured into the cask and the cask was rolled
around the yard.
So you are both correct. Coated or uncoated is up to what you want as the
end result.
Bill
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:33:56 -0400
Subject: Kevin's Water Part Four
Looks like I missed a spot:
<< 4) I plan on removing my chlorine by using a charcoal filter or through
boiling, what will this do to the chemistry of my water? >>
I believe that, based on what's been discussed here before, the charcoal
filter removes chlorine and organics (pesticides, etc) but leaves everything
else pretty much intact.
Boiling your water will help with the reduction of the alkalinity but since
it's so high to begin with, it may not make that much difference.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
From: jwc@durham.med.unc.edu (John W. Carpenter)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 9:49:55 EDT
Subject: filtering
Charlie wrote:
> From Amicon's info above, a 2 micron or even 0.2 micron filter would also
> not seem to be a problem. However 0.2 micron sterile filtrations in
> breweries reportedly give a thinner mouthfeel although Amicon says molecular
> weights as high as 1,000,000 should sail through? Something doesn't gel
> here? I will research this further unless someone has data.
I agree. (SWAG to follow) Maybe some of the proteins are not globular, and
some are rod like. It may be the filter is like a chain link fence and the
protein is like a 8 inch broom stick. If correctly oriented it can sail
through, but sideways it has no chance of going through. It should also be
noted that the Amicon Tech. told me the pore size in not exactly uniform.
Their is a range of pore sizes for each filter. They say the 100,000 MWCO
filter should retain 90% of the proteins 100,000 or more. I suppose their
numbers could be off a bit. The 5 micron filter I use is rated at 99.9%
efficient, and I love the results.
> At present 5 micron would seem to filter fat yeast, yeast flocs, and larger
> haze flocs. Smaller yeast and *any* soluble protein should pass through.(As
> John Carpenter posted) BTW, this is Fix's preferred filter pore size, he
> likes some invisible yeast in his beer. Also, avoiding 45C-55C peptidase
> rest, and including a 58-60C proteinase rest will maximise your available
> MMWPs.
>
> The relationship between these and dextrins in contribution to mouthfeel
> would be interesting to understand fully.
>
> Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
I'd be happy to understand the relationship even partly! :)
Cheers,
John Carpenter, jwc@med.unc.edu
Chapel Hill, NC
------------------------------
From: "David R. Lubar" <75211.2665@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 30 Jul 96 10:13:10 EDT
Subject: Identifying a contaminant
Help. When I started brewing, batches #2 & 3 came out of the primary with an
unpleasant odor and aftertaste. It was a burnt taste, but not one I'd associate
with phenolics. I quit for a while, then gave it another shot. Batch #5 was
bad. The next 14 batches came out fine. But I had to dump a yeast last month
when the starter (stepped up twice) had the same bad odor and taste. Now, most
of my brews are developing the same problem after a month or two in the bottle.
There is no sign of bacteria -- no ring around the neck, no gushing. I suspect
a wild yeast. My equipment can't be the sole cause, since the contaminated
starter was never in contact with any bottling or fermenting equipment. I used
canned wort and a bottle sanitized with Clorox solution. My local shop owners
couldn't shed any light on this. Is there someone out there who might be able
to identify the cuplrit if I sent him a bottle? I saved some of the yeast from
the starter that went bad. I was wondering whether I might learn something by
making a culture. I've just switched to Iodophor, but I don't know what else
to do other than drink everything before it has a chance to turn bad. I'm not
looking forward to downing a case of three-week-old barley wine. Thanks. HBD
is great. I've been lurking for months, and learning a lot.
David Lubar 75211,2665@compuserve.com
------------------------------
From: Jim Overstreet <wa5dxp@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 14:33:54 +0000
Subject: Ring-Burners II
I got several requests for more information on the Natural Gas (& propane)
ring-burners mentioned earlier. I looked for the brochure from the
Homebrew Bayou,
and have misplaced it in my junkpile here. Perhaps someone
who attended the Homebrew Bayou equipment display on Saturday at the
cruise ship terminal would have the information on the large concentric
gas burners that were on display, the ones with the self-igniters. The
company was located in Gonzales Louisiana I think, and they supply the
commercial crawfish-boiling industry among others.
About the ones from Home Depot, I just happen to have an un-opened package
in my hand, and will supply the details. They were located in the section
where the Propane tanks, bbq grills, outdoor cooking supplies are located,
but in a bin off to the side. These bins contained the burners,
replcement propane regulators, propane hoses, valves, etc. The burners are
wrapped in a heavy plastic bag with a twist-em on one end. They are not
easy to see through this plastic, so perhaps this is why HBD'ers
are having problems locating them in the store.
Burner is 6" OD, with two concentric rows of large jets. This is a quality
commercial-grade burner. It is free standing, with 1-1/4" legs built in
to the casting. 3 legs are on the outer circumfrence and the 4th is
exactly in the middle. The middle leg is tapped for a 5/16" bolt, so the
unit can be swapped piece-for-piece for the little rinky-dink burners
supplied with the Cajun-type burners, and can be mounted solely on
that middle leg.
Here is what is written on the tag on the package:
BG-12
Low Pressure Burner & Valve
3/8" M Flare Connector
and the scan number on the label is: 0 50904 07612 0.
Cost was $18.00.
A brass shutoff valve w/built in jet is supplied with the burner.
You can use the right-angle brass jet supplied with your Korean burner,
simply unscrew it and screw it into the new burner. Keep drilling the
supplied jet out in 1/32" increments (start at 1/16") until you get
the flame you want. This thing will put out a 10" blue flame if you
need that much. You have to be careful to match the flame size to the
distance between the burner and the bottom of the kettle, so drilling
out the jet to get a 12" blue flame is no good if the flame is wrapping
around the outside of the kettle. Tip of flame should just barely touch
the bottom of your kettle at max flow.
The supplied valve/jet was designed for propane so you have to drill it
out for NG in order to get enough gas flow, as the pressure is much lower
and energy content is lower also. Since the flow is lower, this NG flame
is more sensitive to a crosswind, and you have to shield it from any
strong winds.
Someone mentioned using the burner from a water heater. Before you waste
your time, the newer burners are made of stamped metal, and have planned
obscelesence built-in. They will rust if you look at them too hard.
An old, commercial water heater would be ideal.
------------------------------
From: "Michel J. Brown" <mjbrown@teleport.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 08:13:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Thanks
Just wanted to say *thanks* to all the wonderful people who helped make my
Atlanta Olympic time much more enjoyable! I found that the micro brew scene
there is still in it's germinal phase, but getting along quite nicely. I
especially liked Fado Fado, and the Atlanta Biergarten. Hope you all have
had a great summer, filled with many brewing stories! TTYAL, God Bless, ILBCNU!
Dr. Michel J. Brown, D.C.
mjbrown@teleport.com http://www.teleport.com/~mjbrown
Brewer, Patriot, Physician, Husband, and Father
------------------------------
From: THaby@swri.edu
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 8:21:05 CDT
Subject: No more corny,s
I was at the local fast food burger chain the other night and noticed that
the soda syrup was packaged in one of those "plastic surrounded by cardboard"
containers, kind of like the wine in a box container. Are corny kegs on their
way out? Just wondering. Tim.
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan@fdic.gov>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 10:12:41 EDT
Subject: Can you decoct if you don't lager?
I have been following the decoction thread with interest and have
decided to give single decoction a try on my next Oktoberfest Ale. My
question is, can you can do a decoction mash without lagering?
I know that you must be careful with a decoction mash to check on the
pH to avoid the extraction of tannins resulting from boiling the grain.
However, in his article, _Decoction Pros and Cons_, posted to Homebrew Digest
#1906 on 12/11/95, A.J. deLange (ajdel@interramp.com) lists as a con:
> 5. Extracts tannins as grains are boiled.
He then states:
>Note that tannin extraction has been listed as a pro and a con. The good
>news is that some of it is complexed and dropped in the decoction and that
>as the tannins have been largely extracted in the decoctions one need not
>be so careful about sparge temperature and pH. The bad news is that the
>tannins have been released and long lagering is usually required for them
>to drop out. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I've heard decoction mashing suggested for many beers in which you
want a fuller malt profile, including Pale Ales (see Marc de Jonge's mini-FAQ
posted at The Brewery). But is it worth doing if you don't have a full
lagering setup? If you don't lager, aren't you just asking for astringent
(albeit malty) beer? Or does proper pH monitoring avoid the need for long
lagering?
Mike Swan
Dallas, Texas
mswan@fdic.gov
------------------------------
From: gmccarthy@sisna.com (Gary McCarthy)
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 09:50:22 -0600
Subject: Re: Homebrewing unlawful in Utah?
Kyle:
In HBD 2128 Kyle Marks kmark@tcd.net wrote:
>I came across a link that stated in Utah you must be licensed to brew beer.
>It also stated that homebrewers are not granted licenses.
>Is anyone familiar with the laws in Utah pertaining to homebrewing?
Even though I live in SLC I cannot claim to be familiar with the
intricacies of Utah liquor laws! I do know about private clubs, beer
taverns, and when the state-run liquor store closes(at 7PM). But the gist
that I know is that homebrewing is illegal, under state law, in Utah. What
the fines got be, I don't know. But you have to look deeper than that esp
in Utah.
In Utah, liquor sales are state-run. I believe there is only one other
state in which that is currently true, I think that state is back
east.(Conn, Vermont?) I believe just recently (past 5 years) that
Washington state went from state-run to private.
Then there is the dominant religion, the Mormons, who for many reasons
control the gov't of Utah. Mormons are supposed to follow temple dietary
instructions(called something like that) which exclude the intake of
caffiene, liquor, whatever else. But, no biggie, everyone is welcome
here.
Then there is time frame in which the bulk of the liquor law was drafted
(somewhere like 1973), which was before the federal law which allows
homebrewers to make 100 gal of beer or wine(200 gal for couples) which was
signed by Jimmy Carter in what 1978? Now I assume many states in which
brewing is illegal, that this is the case - that the laws were formed
before 1978, and have not been amended to exclude home brewers. So if
there was ever a dispute, one could prob point to the federal law and say
that allows you to brew. But I'm not a lawyer!
But there are many brew stores in Utah, esp SLC. So if you live here, or
if you are thinking of moving here and want to continue to brew, rest
assured there is prob no danger or risk in brewing beer, wine or mead here.
My opinion is that Utah liquor people are concerned about the sale and
distribution of liquor(ie getting their ounce of flesh from the
transaction!), not that I mash on my back porch, or that I have 10 cases of
beer and 10 cases of wine in my garage!
Gary McCarthy I've been dazed & confused for so long
gmccarthy@sisna.com its not true! Wanted a woman, never
bargained for you! Led Zepplin
------------------------------
From: Jim Overstreet <wa5dxp@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 17:54:20 +0000
Subject: HELP: Ph Probe Restoration
One of our club members obtained an expensive ($100.00 replacement cost)
Cole-Parmer Ph probe, and brought it over to try on my Cole-Parmer
Ph Tester. We calibrated the tester with my probe, all OK. Then, tried
the same thing with his probe and got a constant reading of 5.3 no matter
what solution we put it in.
It appears the probe had been filled with storage solution and the liquid
had leaked out over the years.
Is there any way to rejuvinate this probe? Any suggestions appreciated.
------------------------------
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@li.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 15:25:09 -0700
Subject: Re: Temperature Measurement for Homebrewing
Has anyone out there used one of the meat thermometers advertised on the
following page? They are listed for $21US shipping incl. I am thinking of
ordering one...
>If you are interested in measuring the temperature of your homebrewing,
>please check our MEAT THERMOMETER through http://www.hk.linkage.net/~thermo
- --
John Varady
Boneyard Brewing Co.
------------------------------
From: "Houseman, David L TR" <DLH1@trpo3.tr.unisys.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 96 16:19:00 EDT
Subject: HBD Size/Limits
I agree with Jeff and a number of the others who've replied concerning
the size and frequency of HBD. I'd not only vote for 1/day and a size
limit of 45K but also a size limit on any one sumittal. Long repeats of
a post to which one is replying is unnecessary as is ASCII art and long
signatures. If more information is needed on a subject, the individual
can always be contacted for further details. Seems that there is
entirely too many replies that are "me too" or beat a thread to death
that don't convey new information, which is what I'm seeking in this
forum to improve my knowledge and brewing. Otherwise I skip most of the
topics anyway. If you really want to be read and heard, keep it short,
too the point and provide new information to the collective. Have a 500
word (or whatever is practical) limit on any one post; Shawn?
------------------------------
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 15:15:33 -0500
Subject: All wheat, all the time.
> From: BRIAN F. THUMM <THUMMBF@GWSMTP.NU.COM>
> Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 08:23:28 -0400
> Subject: 100% Wheat Malt Extract
>
> Everywhere I read, I see that weizen beers need a malt of at least 50% wheat.
> Most extracts are 60/40 (wheat/barley). What will 100% wheat taste like?
The same, only more so.
> Can I make a good weizen with 100% wheat?
You can make a fantastic weizen with 100% wheat. I have in the past, using an
incomplete crush and getting low extraction rates, made fantastic wheat beer.
And I had no problems sparging, probably due to poor crushing.
Use the Weihenstephan Wyeast or a similar pure-strain wheat yeast. Ferment at
lower temps (40-50) to emphasize phenols, higher (50-70) to emphasize esters,
but expect plenty of both. (sp. 4-vinyl guiacol and isoamyl ester, aka clove
and
banana. 4-vg doesn't taste like cloves to me, but that's a side issue.)
> What about a fruit wheat (raspberry/blackberry)?
Every fruited wheat I've ever had, I always thought the two flavors were
stumbling
over one another. I wouldn't bother.
> Do I need to cut the wheat malt with some barley malt?
Nah. Expect lower extraction rates per lb, though. Worse things happen.
(Don't get me wrong - you can make a great wheat beer with barley, too.)
> Or just hop less?
Always hop less with a real weiss beer. And always use noble hops.
Unless you're trying to make an "American Wheat", which is the ugly kid brother
of the wheat beer family. It's basically an American Ale with wheat in it, and
you might as well hop the heck out of it and throw in fruit and whatever. I
think you should use barley for that. (In fairness, there are some delicious
American Wheats out there, but they're too often mistaken for, or mislabbeled
as Weissbier, which is one of my favorite styles, sorry to get testy about it.)
- -R
------------------------------
From: Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:46:04 -0400
Subject: RE: the real deal on mashing?
Frederick L. Pauly asks ...
>I've read a lot in books and on the digest about mashing
>schedules. But I still am not able to explain it to anyone.
>We have people talking about Decoction when practically every
>malt available is very modified. There are all these different
>temp. steps form 95F for acidification up to 170F to cut off the
>enzymes. Is there a reference for mashing that will let me know
>with this malt and for this style I need to mash like this.
>I know some one out there must have a handle on this but I have
>not found it.
It is confusing. I'll try to be brief.
Diastatic (pale) malts come in various degrees of modification, tho'
most widely available malts today are well modified by historic
standards. More modification means that the maltster has performed
some additional degradation before kilning.
Pale or diastatic malts also are kilned to various degrees. Most
european or american pales are kilned at fairly low temps. British
pale ale malt specifically is kilned at higher temps (~105C). Higher
temp kilning destroys most of the phytase and much of the protease &
peptidase and also glucanases in pale-ale malt. Probably a good
fraction of the alpha-glucosidase is destroyed and perhaps a 20-33% of
the beta-amylase (M&B sci pp 292). So pale-ale malt has primarily
alpha- and beta- amylase remaining.
Getting at the goods ...
Microscopic examination of barley seed reveals remnants of a sac or
coating at the surface of starch granules. These consist of cross
linked (1-6, 1-3 and 1-2 and 1-1) linked saccharides and extra protein.
Malting starts the degradation of the surface. These granules are
further degraded in the mash by gelatinization and enzymatic
degradation. Adding mash water liberates the soluable substances in
the malt grist including proteins, enzymes (which are soluable
proteins or albumins), carbohydrates, and permits greater access and
activity of the enzymes. More highly converted malts generally have
more soluables and the remainder is more easily degraded and
soluabilized. Mash temp control serves several purposes, tho
primarily it gelatinizes and soluabilises starch granules and controls
the enzyme activity.
Gelatinization occurs at temps in the range of 55C to 80C for most
grain starches tho' a few require even higher temps. Full
gelatinization is not required for decent extraction, as discussed on
HBD recently, normal mash times at sub-gelatinizing temps also give
good extraction rates. In practice infusion mashes are usually close
to the gelatinization temp range (64C-67C for malted barley). Step or
controlled mashing often has rests below and above the gelatinization
temperature. And decoction mashing provides a remarkably elegant
solution by separating most of the starch granules in the 'thick'
decoct from the majority of the enzymes in the 'thin' fraction,
boiling and fully gelatinizing the granules, then returning them to
the enzymic fraction.
Temp and enzymes have the following relation. Increasing temps cause
greater instantaneous activity of all the enzymes, but beyond a
certain temperature the degradation of that enzyme is the dominant
effect. As temps get higher - all enzymes are more active, but the
amount of the more heat labile enzymes drops off quickly, For a given
mashing time (and other mash conditions) there is an optimal
temp to obtain maximal activity of that particular enzyme.
There are a lot of different enzymes that are at least potentially
involved. Some enzymes that are potentially most active in the hi
40's to low 50C range include peptidases(there are at least 7
peptidases involved!), beta-glucanase, some proteases and phytase
(responsible for the acidification and release of phytic acid that is
poorly understood by HBers in general). Toward the higher end of the
50C's alpha-glucosidase (important in granule degradation) and more
proteases peak. In the low 60C's Beta-amylase is most active, and in
the upper 60Cs it is alpha-amylase that hits it's most active range.
John Palmer has a very nice graph of enzyme temp and pH ranges prep'ed
for an upcoming book of his. I've never seen an encyclopedic review
of all the enzymes involved, and my list here is certainly not
complete.
If you are using highly kilned pale malt,(pale-ale malt) it's nearly
pointless to perform a sub-60C rest for enzymatic activity - virtually
all the enzymes most active at such temps are long gone. Hopefully
it's unnecessary anyway as the maltster has already done this
degradation adequately for you. Since the saccharifying enzymes are
all that is left, and they peak from 60C to 70C this is the range for
pale-ale malt enzyme rests.
When using lightly kilned pale malts, there is a greater variety of
enzymes present, so additional rests in the 45-60C range make sense.
There desirability depends on the extent to which the action of the
various enzymes is needed. For a very well modified US 2-row pale,
you can probably just saccharify like a pale ale malt. For less well
modified examples additional proteolytic degradation may be
desirable. Also when using these malts with adjuncts such as wheat
(high protein content) or oats or flaked barley (high glucans content)
the associated protease or glucanase enzyme rests are desirable.
There is also the issue of style. A decoction and infusion mashes
differ in the amount and type of various malt constituents extracted,
and on terms of oxidation & caramelization. A decoction mashed
english ale, or in infusion mashed german lager are often detectable
as such and not authentic to style (tho' they may be very good beers).
One can reasonable choose to decoction mash any malt for the taste
effect alone. Most malts today are sufficiently well modified to
infusion mash without fear of a disaster.
It would be nice if we as HBers could easily access a real malt
analysis including hot&cold water extract, protein % and enzyme
assays. Barring that you need to 'learn' the properties of your
malts by experience - and make educated guesses based on some
knowledge.
(Or alternatively - just do it ! ;^).
Steve Alexander
------------------------------
From: "McLaughlin,Bob" <bmclaugh@msmail.physio-control.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 13:51:00 -0700
Subject: Neophyte
Hello;
I'm a would-be (will be) brewer, but as of yet, have no experience
making beer. I would like to gather more information about the
processes. Are there any books that the group recommends?
Also, if there is anyone in the greater Seattle area who could recommend
a supplier, I would appreciate any leads or advice.
Bob McLaughlin
Seattle, WA.
bmclaugh@physio-control.com
------------------------------
From: "Paul Kensler (SMI)" <pkensler@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 30 Jul 1996 16:21:08 +0000
Subject: Advice for 5L mini-kegs?
I just decided to buy a setup for those German mini-kegs (5L or 1.3
gallons each). I bought the all-metal tap, and the 10g CO2
cartriges.
Does anyone have any experience worth sharing with these? Any
advice, tips, or tricks I might be able to use? I like the idea of
the mini kegs, since they fit in a fridge and I'm low on space in my
apartment.
On a related note, I read in the latest Zymurgy that you can use
nitrogen cartriges on the taps to help create that creamy Guinness
head... Anybody done this? Where the heck would I buy a nitrogen
cartridge, do grocery stores carry such things?
Any/all feedback welcome!
Thanks,
Paul
As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin' man,
I have chalked up many a mile.
Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks,
And I've learned much from both of their styles.
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2129
****************************
