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HOMEBREW Digest #2079
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/06/22 PDT
Homebrew Digest Saturday, 22 June 1996 Number 2079
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Virgin All Grainer' (Brian S Kuhl)
Vienna Pale/hot to carboy/trub/chlorimine/Belgium/cidery/fruity/dusty (korz@pubs.ih.att.com)
CO2/N2 gases&cylinders (dharsh@alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh))
A thought and a few questions (<CROSSNO@novell2.tn.cubic.com>)
New way to Dechlorinate water! (Paul Sovcik)
Ginjo Beer (DJBrew@aol.com)
RE: Grains of paradise ("Richard Okambawa")
Chicago water, kegs; Bass taste ("Jeremy E. Mirsky")
HSA (John Wilkinson)
Re: High gravity brewing (dipalma@sky.com (Jim Dipalma))
A sensitive subject... (Randy Allen Shreve)
New guy questions (dfwatson@juno.com (David F Watson))
Brewing Techniques (KHButtrum@aol.com)
Making a brew kettle from a keg (KHButtrum@aol.com)
Re: Making a brew kettle from a keg (Marty Tippin)
RE: Spoiled starter; malty vs. sweet (George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro))
"Automated" Decoction Mashing -- Brain Fart (KennyEddy@aol.com)
Enzyme death at high temperature (George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro))
New Recipes in the IRISH PUB! (The Gypsy)
newbie wants to try kegging ("Rob Newberry")
Surprise, 1997 World Homebrew Contest (Greg Hawley)
Grains of Paradise (DJBrew@aol.com)
POst to the digest due to no answer to private e-meil. (Homebrew Digest REQUEST Address Only (by way of Marty Tippin ))
English Bitter vs Pale Ale (texan@mindspring.com (James and Tamara Williams))
Re: Grains of Paradise ("Roger Deschner ")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Brian S Kuhl <Brian_S_Kuhl@ccm.fm.intel.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 96 09:27:00 PDT
Subject: Virgin All Grainer'
Hi All,
I am about ready to do my first all grain brew (an IPA). I am wondering
if I can/should disturb the grain bed by stirring during the mash
schedule. How long should the sparge take. How much will the crushed
grain (Hugh Baird 2-row pale) expand in the mash tun?
On another note, is there any issues with boiling the wort with the lid
on? If so, what?
Thanks to the collective for any input.
Brian
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.att.com
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 96 15:28:11 CDT
Subject: Vienna Pale/hot to carboy/trub/chlorimine/Belgium/cidery/fruity/dusty
Steve writes:
>Not to pick on Boston Brewing or Jim Simpson, vienna and munich malt
>in pale ales is becoming epidemic around here. One local brewery
>(Crooked River) uses this malt to excess in all of their ales that I
>have tried. A new local brewpub, with a German brewmaster is also
>adding a heavy dose of vienna to his hoppy ale. I guess I wouldn't
>object to vienna as a minor side note in an ales flavor, but these
>don't taste like APAs to me. Comments ? Am I alone ? Would a BJCP
>judge allow such a beer in the Amer Pale Ale category - Al ?
As noted before, the judge just judges the beer against the guidelines
specified in the competition. The entrant selects the subcategory in
which to enter the beer. The AHA guidelines say the colour of APAs
is from 4 to 11 SRM which means that the dark end of the scale is just
a shade darker than Bass Ale. I personally feel that as with the English
definition of "Pale Ale," namely a beer that is lighter than a "Brown Ale,"
the colour of American Pale Ales can vary in to amber. Even the AHA
guidelines allow for medium malt and light caramel flavour as long as
bitterness dominates. Those who measure all APAs against SNPA will find
that more than half of the beers labeled Pale Ale in the US will be very
different. Offhand, I can only think of two commercial APAs that are as
pale as SNPA (and have primarily a Pale Ale malt flavour).
There have been two articles in BT calling for an American Amber Ale style
of beer and I've been on the fence regarding this issue. Initially, I
thought it was a good idea, but more recently, I've been leaning towards
a wider APA description. I have yet to read the second BT article so maybe
I'll switch my opinion again.
***
Aaron writes:
>Although it
>many cool their wort in the boiler, which obviously takes less time, it
>would seem to me that you are running the greater risk of infection doing
>it this way. Your lid on your boiler is not airtight. I put my boiling
>wort directly into a sealed (airtight) and sterile carboy. What do you
>think?
If you just use a funnel and splash the wort into the carboy, you are
definitely getting hot-side aeration (HSA) and risking cracking your
carboy due to thermal shock. Siphoning would solve the first problem
and a gallon of cold sanitized water would solve the second, but if you
are doing full boils (all 5 gallons) you don't want to dilute your wort
with a gallon of water, do you? Furthermore, once you have five gallons
of how wort in your carboy, how do you chill it. Letting it cool overnight
is less a problem of infection than a recipe for DMS-production. While the
wort is above 140F, DMS is being produced from SMM but is not being boiled
off as it is during the boil. Slow cooling of wort will make your beer
smell like cooked corn.
***
Aaron writes:
>I personally noticed a distinct difference when racking the trub in two
>brown ale one yes, and one no. The batch that I didn't rack the trub in
>there were fusels present and the beer was extremely "bitter." The batch
>that I racked the trub off of tastes just fine. Well, actually very good.
How did you measure the fusel (aka higher) alcohols? HPLC? GC? By taste?
Smell? Unless it was an incredibly high-gravity beer I suspect the
differences would be very small -- virtually impossible to detect by
taste/smell. Regarding the bitterness, did you perhaps wait till fermentation
began to rack the beer off the trub? If you did, you may have done what
the British brewers call "dropping" in which you siphon the beer out from
under the dirty head. As noted by Art, my Brewing Techniques article
pointed out the significant loss of bitterness (I believe it was 13-18%
not 10-15% as had been posted) if you separate the fermenting wort from
the dirty head in the kraeusen.
***
Steve writes:
>My water filter does a nice job of removing chlorine odors and tastes, but
>I can't swear that the contraption removes the chlorimines too.
It does. Activated carbon filters (like Brita) remove chloramines as well
as chlorine.
***
Someone (AGAIN) writes:
>Belgium beers
That should be BELGIAN beers! You wouldn't say Germany cars, America flag
or France food, would you? Sorry, pet peave...
***
Tom writes:
>Though, is it fructose that makes a cidery taste?
Not any more than sucrose or glucose. Excessive amounts of any of these
sugars will result in cidery beer. As long as you keep them well below 20%
of the fermentables, you should be okay.
***
Tracy writes:
>It's extremely fruity (apple and orange hints), noticeably alcoholic, and
>bitter, but I don't detect much diacetyl or ethyl acetate. Since I
>dry-hopped with about 4 oz. of EKGs (in 5 gallons), there is also a massive
>hop presence which may be masking the other flavors and aromas.
Whoa!!! 4 ounces of EKG and you can still smell esters? That's some
sniffer you've got there... actually, I don't think that any human can
identify esters with that kind of hop aroma. Did you judge the fruity
aromas before you added the dryhops? Otherwise, I can't believe that
you really smell any esters at all there. Sorry...
***
Stetson writes:
>Hello, I brewed a pilsner, not a lager, and its been in the bottle for
>about 6 to 7 weeks now. When you first start drinking one, it has a
>dusty taste to it, and after a while, it goes away. Its not real
>overwhelming, but was wondering if anybody had any suggestions on why it
>tastes like this?
Hmmm... first of all, I assume that you mean that you brewed a Pilsner
recipe, but fermented it at ale temperatures. Pilsners (Bohemian,
German, American) are all lagers (i.e. they are fermented cold and cold
conditioned). As for the "dusty" taste, could it be mold? I know
that I've tasted some commercial beers and homebrews that have had a
"powdery" aroma... like one of the main components of the aroma of
Gloria Vanderbilt perfume. I have not been able to correlate that with
any particular hop or yeast, but I haven't really tried that hard.
What about "papery?" Could it be called "papery?" If so, then I
would say it's oxidation.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korzonas@lucent.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
From: dharsh@alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 12:31:00 -0400
Subject: CO2/N2 gases&cylinders
In HBD #2076, Brian Bliss <brianb@microware.com> wrote:
>Don't expect to take your CO2 tank in and get it filled with CO2/N2 mix.
>("beer gas").
This is quite true and is the result of safety. Each type of cylinder has
different threads (male/female, right/left hand, thread pitch) so people
can't put an oxygen regulator on a hydrogen tank. I've been aware of some
idiots who tried things like using a hammer to force an oxygen regulator
onto a hydrogen tank. (I wish I was kidding about that!) Most CO2 tanks
have CGA 320 fitting - For the collective - what are on the mixed tanks?
>...pure CO2 will form a solid in the tank, beer gas forms a liquid...
Pure CO2 is a liquid in a cylinder. Some small research grade cylinders
are at lower pressures, and as a result are just gas, but cylinders aren't
filled with solid CO2.
>...Second, it must have what is
>referred to as a "dip tube". i.e., beer gas containers are filled and
>dispensed from the bottom, not the top. You cannot fill a such a cylinder
>with pure CO2 - as the CO2 begins to freeze, it will clog the dip tube.
>I'm not sure why you cannot (should not?) dispense beer gas from the top.
A dip tube is used any time you want to deliver a liquid compressed gas -
quite simply it takes the liquid off of the bottom - You can buy tanks to
provide liquid CO2 that come with the dip tube, without the dip tube you
get gas (from the tank, that is).
If the mixed gas were dispensed from the top, the concentration would not
be constant as a result of the different vapor pressures of the two
compounds. The normal boiling points (i.e., pressure where vapor
pressure=1 atm) are -78.2 for CO2 and -195.8 for N2 (Centigrade), so the
gas in the headspace would be primarily N2 at the beginning and primarily
CO2 at the end.
I'm a little suprised to hear that the mixed gas is liquified - I didn't
think that regulators could work on a liquid input and produce a vapor
output. Obviously, it would have to be a different style of regulator than
the "normal" type used for compressed gases. Anybody out there know about
these?
Adios amoebas-
Dave
------------------------------
From: <CROSSNO@novell2.tn.cubic.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 11:38:02 CST
Subject: A thought and a few questions
If you are "defining the style" what do you gain from the World Beer
Cup competition?
What is the smallest amount of grain that can be mashed in a 48 qt.
rectangular cooler with a copper manifold?
My hops (second year) grow ten feet vertical, then must grow
horizontal. They go about 5 feet horizontal, then stop. To reach
the 25-30 feet bine do I have to grow all vertical?
Thanks,
Glyn Crossno, Estill Springs, TN
- ---->
"I get home at five o'clock,
and I take myself out a nice, cold beer.
Always seem to be wond'rin'
why there's nothin' goin' down here."
- _Working Man_ by Rush
Glyn.Crossno@cubic.com
------------------------------
From: Paul Sovcik <U18183@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 96 15:06:55 CDT
Subject: New way to Dechlorinate water!
A week or so ago, I asked about the feasibilty of using an aquarium product to
dechlorinate tapwater for brewing. Well, with the help of Pierre Jelenc,
chem whiz, and the good folks at rec.aquaria, I have some answers....
The compound that will dechlorinate tap water is Sodium Thiosulfate. Just a
few drops of solution (dont know the strength) will dechlorinate gallons of
water. Na Thiosulfate apparently reduces chlorine to chloride.
Is it effective? No question. It will remove virtually all chlorine from
tap water, as evidenced by the fact that extremely chlorine sensitive fish
can live in water treated by NaThiosulfate. In fact, it even neutralizes
CHLORAMINE, which is unaffected by the usual practice of boiling.
Is it safe? I think so. NaThiosulfate is used in medicine as both an
antidote to cyanide poisoning and a treatment to prevent kidney toxicity from
Cisplatin, a nephrotoxic drug. It is given parenterally (IV) at much larger
doses than given to dechlorinate water, and it has little toxicity..
Plus - it is easily degraded in hot solution - i.e the boil, so if you
are doing full boils, you will drive off the chloramine and then the
thiosulfate. AND it has no taste of its own and no odor. And its CHEAP!
Only one drawback that I see.... it is used as an antifungal topically in
high concentrations (25%). I really doubt this would lead to a problem
with fermentation.
So - do we have a potentially useful agent here? Or am I missing something?
I am planning on using this in my next extract batch. Cross your fingers.
Should I copyright this so as I can assure first market rights?
I can see it now....JSP EZ-D-Chlor :)
- -Paul Sovcik, Western Springs, IL
PJS@uic.edu
"Better brewing through Chemistry"
------------------------------
From: DJBrew@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 19:26:42 -0400
Subject: Ginjo Beer
In a recent post Dave Burley posted that Koji was an amylase forming
mold call Aspergillus Niger. It is not. Aspergillus Niger can be pathogenic.
Some people have acute allergic reations to it and it can make other people
very sick. Rice Koji is "Rice kernels covered with a fragrant white bloom of
Aspergillus Oryzae mold"
Not to make any one look bad but I wouldn't want someone to bring home a
culture of A. Niger from work or school and make themselves sick or even
worse, ruin their beer.
Hope this is helpfull,
Dan Soboti Jr.
Owner, U-Brew Corp
Millburn, N.J.
------------------------------
From: "Richard Okambawa" <okambawa@UQTR.UQuebec.ca>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:28:40 +0000
Subject: RE: Grains of paradise
Michael Newman <100711.2111@CompuServe.COM>
wrote in HBD 2073
Help!
>
>I am trying to recreate a late 18th century British recipe for
>Reading Beer. It is spiced with coriander, Indian bark, and grains of
>paradise. What are Indian bark (cinnamon/cassia?) and grains of
>paradise (these come from the West Indies I think). Grains of
>paradise are used in some London gins. Any and all help accepted!
I can't help you for indian bark. Grains of paradise or guinea peper
or maniguette (?) is native of west african coast where it is easily
found at the markets. The rounded brown grains are a bit smaller than
peper grains. There is perhaps hundreds of grains in a "fruit". The
taste can be described as subtle hot, something like a mixture of
ginger and peper. I have always wanted to use it in an ale. Let me
know the quantity you use if you try a brew. Look around in "exotic"
groceries; I've never find it in Montreal but who know?
Hope this can help.
Richard Okambawa
Richard_okambawa@uqtr.uquebec.ca
"Cerevisiam bibunt homines, cetera animalia fontes"
------------------------------
From: "Jeremy E. Mirsky" <mirsjer@charlie.cns.iit.edu>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 17:03:49 -0500
Subject: Chicago water, kegs; Bass taste
Hi folks-
I'd like to know how other Chicago brewers treat their city water (I use
tap) and how much gypsum, etc. is recommended for pale ales, stouts, and
porters.
Do any of you in Chicago know of any really *inexpensive* sources from which
I can obtain a corny keg setup? At this point, the brewshop is too expensive
for my budget. Or where can I obtain a CO2 tapper for those 5L minikegs?
Also, with only a 5 or 6 batches under my belt, I'm still trying to learn
(aren't we all?) how to create particular taste profiles in my brews (still
extract + specialty grains). As an example, I am interested in that of Bass
ale. Are adjuncts or some kind of dextrinous sugar used?
Thanks!
Jeremy
mirsjer@charlie.cns.iit.edu
------------------------------
From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 12:38:39 -0500
Subject: HSA
In hbd #2076 Charlie Scandrett said:
>...HSA (hot side aeration) is not just dissolving
>O2 in wort. It is the oxygenation of Mellanoids and fatty acids. This
>reaction slows exponentially I think below about 70C, it is considered
>insignificant below that threshold.
Since my sparge probably runs off below 70C does this mean I don't need
to worry about HSA as I collect it? I thought I did. Also, would this
allow me to collect the runoff and pour it into my kettle without having
to worry about HSA? That would be a big help in doing 10 gallon brews
since a pure gravity feed system with hot liquor tank, mash/sparge tun,
kettle, fermenter would get pretty tall. I currently have my kettle setting
on the ground during the sparge then have to hoist it up to my burner at
a high enough level to allow draining to the fermenter.
If HSA is of little concern at 70C I could save myself some strain.
John Wilkinson
------------------------------
From: dipalma@sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 96 13:53:16 EDT
Subject: Re: High gravity brewing
Hi All,
In HBD #2076, Bill Giffin writes:
>Hops and speciality grains such as dark malt are like salt and pepper.
>They have to be in balance with the beer. Can I use "Bad Things(tm)"
>Jim? I will anyway . Hops and dark malts in low gravity beers are not
>Bad Things. It is only when they are used in too high a quantity for a
>low gravity beer are they unpleasant.
Absolutely. I guess I wasn't as clear on this point as I should have
been - I certainly didn't mean to imply that *no* hops or dark malts
should be used. I use both those ingredients when brewing English milds,
but I target just 24 IBUs and use chocolate malt as only 2-3% of the total
grain bill. As Bill points out, they only become problems when the use is
too heavy-handed.
*************************************************************
Al K. writes:
>Ahem... recall that one of these flavourful, low-gravity styles we're
>talking about here is English Bitter? This is a style where bitterness
>should clearly dominate. Consider Boddington's (yes, in the blasted
>Draft-flow cans... alas, there are few examples of good low-gravity bitters
>available in the US)
I agree there are few examples of this style in the US. Of the numerous
commercial examples I've tasted in England, there was a considerable range
of hop bitterness. Most of them were fairly well-balanced, so no, I don't
agree that this is a style where hop bitterness clearly dominates. There are
far too many counter-examples.
Looking at Tim Dawson's style guidelines for English bitters:
Ordinary Bitter - Mildest form of Bitter. Dark gold to medium copper-brown.
Grain and malt tend to predominate over hop flavor and bitterness (although
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
there are exceptions) with enough hop aroma to balance and add interest.
Light to medium body. Low diacetyl and fruity-esters.
Commercial examples: Brakspear Ordinary Bitter, Young's Bitter, Fuller's
Chiswick, Ballard Bitter.
O.G.: 1.033 - 1.038; Alcohol: 3 - 3.5%; IBU's: 20 - 35; SRM: 8 - 12.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yep, that's quite a range all right. I'm sure the hop bitterness did not
clearly dominate in the examples with 20 IBUS.
Again, I *do* use hops when brewing Ordinary bitters, but I take care not
to hop them too heavily. Hop bitterness is a sharp flavor, high levels
of hop bitterness will make the beer seem thinner. That is why hops are
used to balance maltiness, wouldn't you agree Al?
>Esters primarily create aroma (usually fruity, but sometimes solventy).
>I don't see how a fruity aroma could cause sharpness in a beer.
In all my years as a judge, I've never encountered a beer that had esters
in the aroma, but not in the taste. If the ester profile is sufficiently
pronounced that you can smell them, then you should be able to taste them
as well.
Cheers,
Jim dipalma@sky.com
------------------------------
From: Randy Allen Shreve <rashreve@Interpath.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 14:05:14 -0400
Subject: A sensitive subject...
RE: Savoring the flavor responsibly and our children.
How have you in the brewing collective approached and taught responsibility
concerning alcoholic beverages with your children? Not trying to be a
bleeding heart here.....I just have a 15 year old daughter, and am wondering
about the right approach to take with this subject so that it will last and
provide acceptable results.
Private e-mail is most welcome.
Thanks!
------------------------------
From: dfwatson@juno.com (David F Watson)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 10:06:42 PST
Subject: New guy questions
Hi -
Have been reading HBD for a little while now and have finally gotten up
nerve enough to write in with my questions. I am brand new to home
brewing so these may sound a little basic, but please bare with me.
My first attempt is a Porter, I used the recipe from "Brewing the World's
Great Beers" to the letter, except that I used two stage fermentation. I
bottled after about 13 days fermentation. My OG was 1.042 and the FG was
1.011. I primed with 1/2 cup sugar. Being anxious I tried my first
bottle last night (8 days after bottling). My problem is this - The
flavor is pretty good but I have no head to speak of. I realize that
this is really too soon and that it should condition for at least
another 3 weeks but I really expected more. What head there is, is thin
and dissipate almost immediately. What could cause this or what can I
add or am I just too impatient (patience is not one of my virtues).
One other question. My second batch (brewed the day I went to the second
fermentation on the first batch) is a stout. My OG was 1.080, the
gravity reading last night was 1.022 so I figure that it is just about
ready to bottle. Problem is this, I tasted the sample and while I
realize that the alcohol content is high in a stout that is almost all I
could taste. Again am I just quick to judge, will this mellow out so
that I can taste the beer.
I know that I haven't given enough information to get any really
definitive answers but would appreciate any general guidelines from the
world of wisdom out there.
Email would probably be best since from what I've read in HBD is far
ahead of my brewing experience and would probably bore everyone else to
tears.
Thanks, Dave
------------------------------
From: KHButtrum@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 14:20:23 -0400
Subject: Brewing Techniques
Brewing Techniques is a great magizine and it is published bi-monthy by:
New Wine Press Inc.
P.O. Box 3222
Euugene, OR 97403-9917
Their phone # is 1-800-427-2993
The URL is:
http://virtumall.com/newstand/brewingtechniques/brewingmain.html
I hope that I copied this right. If it does not get you there just YAHOO for
Brewing Techniquues and they will give you a link for it.
On the newstands the magazine runs $6.50 and i think it's $33 a year.
Hope this helps you all,
Kevin Buttrum
khbuttrum@aol.com
Fredonia,Wi
------------------------------
From: KHButtrum@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 14:21:19 -0400
Subject: Making a brew kettle from a keg
I would like to make a brew kettle from a Bud-light half-barrel that I have.
My first question is if kegs are SS or are they AL? I would think that they
were SS, but a few of the guys at work swear that the are made out of AL.
My other question is if any one has a good way of converting this keg to a
brew pot? I have a 160,000 btu burner with a 13" base and when I put the keg
on the burner it is very unstable.The rim of the keg fits over the base but
because the bottom of the keg is round and it rocks back and forth. So far I
have not dared to use the keg because of this.
Thanx,
Kevin Buttrum
khbuttrum@aol.com
------------------------------
From: Marty Tippin <martyt@sky.net>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:41:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Making a brew kettle from a keg
At 02:21 PM 6/21/96 -0400, Homebrew Digest REQUEST Address Only wrote:
>I would like to make a brew kettle from a Bud-light half-barrel that I have.
>
>My first question is if kegs are SS or are they AL? I would think that they
>were SS, but a few of the guys at work swear that the are made out of AL.
I think nearly all kegs are SS - it's easy to tell by taking a nail and
trying to scratch the surface - if it scratches easily, it's AL otherwise
it's SS. My Bud kegs are SS.
>My other question is if any one has a good way of converting this keg to a
>brew pot? I have a 160,000 btu burner with a 13" base and when I put the keg
>on the burner it is very unstable.The rim of the keg fits over the base but
>because the bottom of the keg is round and it rocks back and forth. So far I
>have not dared to use the keg because of this.
Check out my web page "A Two-Tier Converted Keg Brewing System" linked from
my homepage (URL is below). Should be plenty of links and information there
to get you started. Let me know if you have questions.
- -Marty
martyt@sky.net
http://www.sky.net/~martyt
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:06:29 -0700
Subject: RE: Spoiled starter; malty vs. sweet
Peter Thompson writes that his starter cultures keep going bad.
Do you mean before or after you pitch them? I save starter culture
wort by draining 48 oz.of boiling wort through my counter-flow chiller
at the end of each boil. I collect it in pre-warmed bottles and cap
immediately. Have only once had one go bad, and that's because it
wasn't capped immediately. If you're a bit paranoid, put the bottles
in a double boiler, boil for 15 minutes, then cap them. You won't
have any problems.
In this way, each batch I make yields at least 48 ounces of sterile
wort to use as a yeast culturing medium (sometimes I collect more,
depending on my needs). I don't need to waste time brewing just to
make starter media!
It also serves to sterilize my chiller before using it. I know there
are some out there who will say that I'm begging for trouble by only
heating the chiller for 5 minutes, but I keep it clean and haven't had
a problem. Keep in mind, nothing homebrewers do is sterile. Our goal
is to knock down bacterial populations to a point where they can't
hope to compete with the yeast we pitch.
On a completely different note, David Burley writes something to the
effect that sweetness=maltiness. This is definitely not true for my
palate. Try tasting your unfermented wort before you hop it. Sure
there is some maltiness, but it's the sugary sweetness that dominates.
Try tasting an under-attenuated beer (I made one of them,
unfortunately). It will be cloying & sickly sweet. Again, there may
be some malt, but it will be dominated by sugariness.
Judges encounter this in homebrews. It is usually not desirable,
whereas maltiness is.
Oktoberfests DO NOT get their maltiness from crystal malt. In fact,
too much crystal will make the beer to caramel-sweet for the style.
Oktoberfest gets its' toasty maltiness from Munich malt and decoction
mashing. A touch of 20L crystal (3/4 lb. per 5 gallons) is plenty for
an Oktoberfest.
I happen to brew a good Oktoberfest, so I feel my opinion is worth at
least a little bit (it won Gold at the AHA NHC this year).
Also, about reaction rates in general, oxidation won't happen readily
at low temperatures because 1. the yeast consume it quickly and 2.
Reaction rates are not necessarily linear (as has been written here in
the HBD). Sure, it WILL occur at low temperatures, but not anywhere
nearly as fast as in hot wort.
George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:12:58 -0400
Subject: "Automated" Decoction Mashing -- Brain Fart
Steve Alexander pines for an automated decoction mash system.
While it's not really automated, I thought of an approach that might at least
*simplify* the measurement phase of the decoction pulls. I've never tried
this but I thought we could beat on it for a few HBD's to see if it survives.
If it's not too stupid of an idea maybe someone could try it out and post
the results (hey, don't look at ME!)
The example here is based on deJonge's Decoction FAQ (2 -step) available at
the Brewery. You could modify it for single- or triple-decoction schedules.
After crushing the grains, place 1/4 of the total dry grain into one mesh
grain bag and 1/3 of the total into another bag. Mark or tag these somehow
to keep their identities known. Place the two bags and the rest of the grain
into your cooler tun. Mash in for a temperature of 127F. Since the grain is
in bags, it might make things tough to get a good mix; but if the bags are
tied very loosely, or made of a fairly coarse mesh, you might be able to
"beat" the water into them. Or, if you actually opened them, perhaps you
could get inside them to ensure a good mash-in. This part is the biggest
potential drawback I think. Anyway, after the temperature has settled,
remove the 1/3 bag, let it drain some but not completely, then dump it into
your boiling pot. Toss the grain bag aside as you won't need it anymore.
Heat the mash in the boiling kettle to 162 and rest 30 min, then bring to
boil for 15 - 30 min. Add enough of the boiled mash back to the cooler to
bring the cooler temperature up to 150F; mix well to get the stuff in the 1/4
bag to play along. Reserve any remaining boiled mash until it too has cooled
to 150F (or add a little cold water?), then add it back to the cooler. Rest
15 - 30 min. Remove the 1/4 bag, drain as desired, boil 15 - 30 min, add
back to obtain 160F (again reserve any remainder till it's 160F before adding
back to cooler). Rest until saccharification is complete (maybe 30 to 60
min).
The idea here is to "premeasure" the pulled mash, but I wonder if (1) the
grain bags would impede the mash-in, and (2) whether the grain bag would
prevent the contents of the remaining 1/4 of the grain from mixing well with
the original and the returned mash. Or (3) it's a stupid idea that doesn't
work or buy you anyhting (kinda like my bum brother-in-law).
Hey, I'd try this myself but I wouldn't be able to tell whether it's easier
until I did a "traditional" decoction first. By the time I get to that,
well, maybe someone else might give it a whirl, or we can decide it's a
monumental waste of time, and save us all some effort.
What the hell -- it's Friday. My brain hurts. No beer here at work.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 15:18:49 -0700
Subject: Enzyme death at high temperature
David Burley writes, correctly, that enzyme reaction rate plots look
like bell curves when there is only one variable (i.e., temp)
changing. What I'm confused about is why he thinks beta amylase is
going to work at high temperatures. Sure, it's active at 158F, until
it's all denatured! That's why those plots are sharply bell shaped.
The enzymes are destroyed at temps that are too high.
If you mash at 158F, both alpha and beta amylase will be active at
first, but the beta will be denatured much more quickly than the alpha
(I can't remember the rates and don't have my book with me). You can
keep the temperature at 158 until the cows come home, and you won't
get a fermentable wort. At 158, only alpha amylase will survive long
enough to break down most of the starches. There won't be any beta
left at that temp after an hour.
In general, the higher your mash temp., the shorter your mash time,
because you don't gain anything by keeping it there a long time.
------------------------------
From: The Gypsy <warlock@sanfran.infinex.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 12:21:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New Recipes in the IRISH PUB!
Greetings fellow homebrewers,
I recently got some excellent feedback from some of the brewers who
visited "THE IRISH PUB SPORTS & ENTERTAINMENT BAR!" at:
http://www.infinex.com/~warlock
A couple of brewers made some suggestions about the getting some brew
recipes. Good Idea! I just finished installing all the recipes from
the "Cats Meow 3." web page. I have individual direct links to:
Pale ales - Lagers - Wheat Beers - Steam, soaked and sour beers,
Stouts and porters - Barley wine and dopplebock - Herb and spiced
beers - Fruit beers - Belgian, German & Scottish ales - Meads - Cider,
Other Beverages - Historical Interest - and the Index.
It was also suggested that I install a "Crazy Drink Corner" for some of
the most outlandish and unorthodox types of homebrew recipes available.
These would be recipes like my all time favorite "Mr. potato head"
beer, made naturally... of potatoes.
If you have any "Crazy Drink Corner" type homebrew recipes, please
e-mail them to me and I will add them, credited to you, to my page.
Thanks for all the suggestions and the kind words about "THE IRISH PUB!"
It brings a smile to this old mans cranky face.
I've been brewing since the 1950s' and this is more fun than when I got
the "Whirlies' from drinking my first jug of homemade "Jungle Juice!"
BTW... Out of all the people who have visited THE IRISH PUB, I've
had only 1 objection to the information on "How to build a cable TV
de-scrambler for $10.00 to $12.00.
I apologize if this has offended anyone.
Type at 'ya later...
Bob
==============================================================================
Check out the "Irish Pub!" Web Site at http://www.infinex.com/~warlock
Homebrewing, all the Cats Meow 3 recipes, food and drink recipes, modem tips
for speed, an all sports and entertainment section, How to make a
TV Cable de-scrambler for $10 to $12, newspapers, and more!
------------------------------
From: "Rob Newberry" <robnewberry@grouplogic.com>
Date: 21 Jun 1996 15:19:59 -0400
Subject: newbie wants to try kegging
I've brewed three perfect batches of homebrew so far, and now I want to try a
big project.
I've got a friend at a restaurant who will let me use (maybe have or buy real
cheap) a real beer keg. One of those big ones that looks like a big steel
barrel. And not the fancy kind that looks like a cylinder and has handles --
these are older and look like barrels.
I've been trying hard to find information on how to use one of these. So far,
unfortunately, I've only found information on smaller batches and the little
soda kegs. While I'm willing to try that, I REALLY WANT to try a big batch
with the big keg. I may waste some money and some time, but I'll probably
learn something. I think I have all the equipment (I've got a hell of big
brewing pot).
The trouble is that I know so little. I haven't really inspected one of these
kegs, so I'm not sure exactly how to clean it, fill it, seal it -- in short,
use it. So I'm hoping that somewhere on this list is someone who can give me
a good step-by-step on doing this. If I'm at all successful, I'll write it up
on a nice web page for everyone else to refer to.
Can anybody help me here? If it matters, I'm interested in brewing either a
pale ale or an amber/bitter. Something along the lines of my results with the
True Brew Pale Ale kit would be great.
Thanks tons in advance.
Rob
P.S. I'm going to send this to the DC Beer list, too, so if anyone on the
list is on both (like me), you may see another copy. And if you're in the DC
area and can help, all the better, drop me a line and when I'm done I'll
invite you to the party.
------------------------------
From: Greg Hawley <gregh@Plexus.COM>
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 13:45:52 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Surprise, 1997 World Homebrew Contest
Yesterday in the mail I got a flyer for the Boston Beer Company's (BBC's)
1997 World Homebrew Contest. A couple things surprised me. First, the
entries are due in Boston in 3 weeks (not enough time to even consider
making something special). Second, despite the fact that the BBC is
really looking for beers to take to market, they are charging a $5 entry
fee. Third, they are requiring 4 bottles instead of three be sent to the
contest. Fourth, they want you to reserve 3 more bottles in reserve for
latter rounds (if you advance). Last, what happened to the 1996 World
Homebrew Contest. They seem to have skipped a year?
I appreciate the T-Shirt I got last winter and got some good comments on
the beer I submitted then. Despite the hiccups the BBC had at the contest
last year, I felt they gave me a fair shake.
Now, I'm disappointed. Can anyone comment?
- ---gregh
Greg.Hawley@plexus.com, (414) 751-3285
For more information browse http://www.athenet.net/~dang/gregh/Welcome.html
Vanquishing the heart of evil through better software engineering.
4 Simple Machines of the Information Age: Identity, Circle, Copy and Correlate
------------------------------
From: DJBrew@aol.com
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 19:37:09 -0400
Subject: Grains of Paradise
Grains of Paradise, also known as Paradise Seed has a good write up in the
1994 Special issue of Zymurgy.(Vol. 17 No. 4) It is a very nice additive with
a spicey flavor similar to pepper corns. We import and sell this and many
other spices at my homebrew store in New Jersey. We sell it for $1.80/oz. If
anyone is interested please feel free to e-mail or call me.
Dan Soboti Jr. (DJBrew@Aol.com)
Owner, U-Brew corp.
319 1/2 Millburn Ave.
Millburn, N.J. 07041
(201) 376-0973
------------------------------
From: Homebrew Digest REQUEST Address Only <homebrew-request@aob.org> (by way of Marty Tippin <martyt@sky.net>)
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 1996 20:52:50 -0500
Subject: POst to the digest due to no answer to private e-meil.
<Chuck hudson writes about the consistent 36 to 48 hour delay in getting the
HBD>
You're not the only one having a problem - I don't know of very many people
who are getting the digest on time. I've mailed Shawn many times and his
response is "it's the machines at the other end that take so long" - his
claim is that it takes that long for his program to do the handshaking with
all the other systems one at a time as it sends the e-mail. The list is
processed alphabetically by domain, so it takes a while for anyone not at
a.com to get their stuff.
What really bugs me is that the number of subscribers isn't much different
since the digest changed ownership, and I *never* had this kind of delay in
getting my mail prior to the change... And one would presume that the
previous software had to go through the same process of sending e-mail that
the new one does, so it would seem logical that the previous system should
have had these same sorts of delays.
I think we have someone running the list who's bitten off more than he can
chew and doesn't know what the problem is or how to fix it. Jack
Schmidling's offer to host the digest is looking more attractive all the
time...
I've solved the problem for myself by subscribing to the undigested version
of the HBD - send e-mail to homebrew-request@aob.org with the word
"subscribe" in the body and you'll start getting an instant echo of each
individual message as it is sent to the HBD - it's a lot of e-mail to deal
with, but at least it's delivered on time...
- -Marty
martyt@sky.net
------------------------------
From: texan@mindspring.com (James and Tamara Williams)
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 00:14:53 -0400
Subject: English Bitter vs Pale Ale
In #2077 Al K. writes:
>Despite what the AHA Guidelines say, I feel that there is no difference
>between English Pale Ale and English Bitter. In the UK the two names are
>used interchangeably by brewers.
In his tome 'World Guide to Beer,' Michael Jackson addresses this issue.
According to Jackson, English brewers aren't strict in identifying style.
The terms bitter and extra special bitter are used relative to their other
beers, not an objective standard. A brewery's ESB is more bitter than its
Bitter is more bitter than its Pale Ale, but not necessarily another
brewer's.
------------------------------
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983@UICVM.UIC.EDU>
Date: Sat, 22 Jun 1996 05:26:30 CDT
Subject: Re: Grains of Paradise
...are listed as an important ingredient in Belgian White beer by Pierre
Cellis. He certainly uses it in his Cellis White, in addition to
corriander, bitter orange peel, eye of newt, wheat, barley, hops, etc.
(Or perhaps eye of newt _IS_ grains of paradise!)
I have heard it is available in the small grocery stores in Chicago's
Chinatown area; check your local Oriental food stores.
Roger Deschner University of Illinois at Chicago rogerd@uic.edu
Aliases: u52983@uicvm.uic.edu R.Deschner@uic.edu USUICZ3P@IBMMAIL
==== Member, Chicago Beer Society -- 1996 Homebrew Club Of The Year ====
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2079
****************************
