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HOMEBREW Digest #2056
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/06/01 PDT
Homebrew Digest Saturday, 1 June 1996 Number 2056
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Homepage for Brewer's Workshop ("Robert Marshall")
Actual BOD/TSS from Brewery (Joe Rolfe)
More Homebrew Favorites ("Karl F. Lutzen")
RE: Sankey Kegs for Fermenting (smucker@use.usit.net (David and Carol Smucker))
Update (RANDY ERICKSON)
Kosher Beer and Heavy Honey ("Phillip J. Birmingham")
London pub web site, summary (DEBOLT BRUCE)
Methanol (NOT AGAIN) (aesoph@ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael))
re: Bottling Buckets ("Gregg A. Howard")
Re: legality question (Rob Moline)
All Grain Weizen (WalkerMik@aol.com)
Latino Beer Recipe? (Kallen Jenne)
The yeast slurry that ate New York ("J.A. Cadieux")
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ARCHIVES:
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Robert Marshall" <robertjm@hooked.net>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 00:03:42 +0000
Subject: Homepage for Brewer's Workshop
A few issues ago someone asked about a place where they could
download a demo of Brewer's Workshop.
I ran into their webpage tonight while surfing the Net. Its:
http://www.slonet.org/~tnelson/
Sure looks like a great program!! (I have no financial interest,
thanks for asking;) )
Later,
Later,
Robert Marshall
robertjm@hooked.net
homepage: http://www.hooked.net/users/robertjm
- ----------------------------------------------
"In Belgium, the magistrate has the dignity
of a prince, but by Bacchus, it is true
that the brewer is king."
Emile Verhaeren (1855-1916)
Flemish writer
- ------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc@shore.net>
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:27:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Actual BOD/TSS from Brewery
this is an actual reading from a qualified lab involved with
testing effluents/water etc.
these samples were transported within the hold time required.
fermenter
TSS 30000 mg/L
BOD 70000 mg/L
Kettle Bottom
TSS 2000 mg/L
BOD 60000 mg/L
these samples were raw (undiluted). the local sewer pretreatment person
can get you a dilution chart, and should have max numbers for the total
pounds of (BOD/TSS) per day. i do not have readily available the formula
to go from mg/L and flow to get pound per day. but i do remember the
max flow but my limits are 31#BOD 25#TSS which limited me to 50 gallons
or raw undiluted effluent. one of these (according to the sewer dept)
is not a linear dilution (1L water in 1L effluent wont cut the level in half)
anyone have the formula for the dilutions - i'd be interested.?
i'd also be interested in seeing if anyone else has had lab work done on the
streams (diluted or otherwise)
one stream i did not get was the bottom of the lauter - which i will assume to
be as loaded as the kettle bottoms. other streams of interest would be
bottle/kegs washing, or as some breweries do - spent grains to sewer - which
is nuts but some do it.
flow rates (all water used) from most breweries is 3 to 10 bbls water per
bbl of product.
joe
------------------------------
From: "Karl F. Lutzen" <lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org>
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 09:55:36 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: More Homebrew Favorites
First off a big thank you to all who have contributed recipes toward our
sequel to "Homebrew Favorites". The response has been very good, with
many GREAT recipes sent in and Mark Stevens and I really appreciate your
efforts.
The important news is that Mark and I have extended the deadline for
recipe contribution. The new deadline is July 15, 1996 to get your
recipe into the next volume of "Homebrew Favorites". We will gladly
accept recipes at any time after that, but they will be held until the
next volume release.
To make things easier, visit our Web site to get submission information.
The address is:
http://alpha.rollanet.org/~lutzen
>From here you will be able to download printer forms, and even submit
recipes through the Web (provided your browser supports forms)!
Any specific queries, as well as recipes, can be directed to:
lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
We will even give you a big "Thank You" for your recipes. All
contributors who submit recipes that end up in the sequel to "Homebrew
Favorites", will receive a copy of the finished product. Now how can
you beat that?
So, tell your friends, supply shops, club members and even strangers in
the street of the news, and we'll be waiting to hear from all of you.
Karl Lutzen.
------------------------------
From: smucker@use.usit.net (David and Carol Smucker)
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 19:33:57 -0400
Subject: RE: Sankey Kegs for Fermenting
In HBD #2054 Kallen Jenne ask about cleaning Sankey kegs that have been
used for fermenting.
>I brew larger 10-15 gal batches and have, in the past, used old
>Sankey-styled (straight-sided) kegs with a #2 stopper and a fermentation
>lock - very successfully. My method of sterilizing thus far has been
>bleach. My last batch went awry and I ended up dumping 15 gallons of a
>Foster's clone. The problem, according to my hb supply person probably
>lies in not being able to adequately remove the beerstones on the inside
>of the keg. Now I am looking at a two step cleaning/sterilizing
>process: first, a hot lie solution to melt away any sediment; and then
>a warm TSP soak, followed by vigorous rinse.
I have been using Sankey kegs as my fermenter for about 3 years now and
both like them very much and have never had a sanitation problem with
them. The key is getting them very clean. One nice thing about a
stainless Sankey keg is that using very hot cleaning solution is never a
problem as with glass.
To clean I use a hot (almost boiling) NaOH (lye) solution. BUT YOU MUST BE
VERY CAREFUL WITH THIS STUFF -- IT CAN CAUSE VERY BAD BURNS AND ABOVE ALL
YOUR DON'T WANT TO GET ANY ANYWHERE NEAR YOU EYES.
One of the dangerous things about NaOH is that it generates a great deal
of heat when added to water. Because of this don't add it to hot water
near the boiling point or you will get a rather violent reaction which
can cause it to boil over or splash out at you. Start with room
temperature to 50 C temperature water and add about 1/2 cup of NaOH for 10
or 12 gallons of water. I heat right in my boiling keg. (A converted
Sankey keg.) I then transfer via gravity flow into my keg needing
cleaning and then top up with hot water.
I plug the opening with a 2 inch expanding plumbing pipe plug and invert
the keg for 24 hours. The hot NaOH will "eat" any organic remaining from
the fermentation. (To be effective NaOH has to be hot -- I understand
above about 75 C -- I shoot for about 90 C.)
This get the keg clean of organics but may not clean all deposits. I
follow the NaOH with a rinse and then with about pH 4 to 5 HCl acid
rinse.
I cap the clean keg with aluminum foil and put away until the next use.
AT THAT TIME I PUT 4 TO 5 GALLONS OF BOILING WATER IN THE KEG AND ROLL IT
AROUND AND THEN DRAIN. It is then ready for use.
One other key thing is knowing that you got your keg really clean. To do
this I use a small inspection mirror (from an auto parts store) that is a
little bigger than a dentists mirror but goes in the 2 inch opening
easily. To have enough good light to see by I hang a auto tail light bulb
from a pair of wires and light up the inside of my kegs. Works great.
One last thing. Don't use bleach on stainless. Can cause holes in you keg
under some conditions.
Hope this helps
Dave Smucker
David E. Smucker, Mech. Engr., Carol J. Smucker, Nursing
Knoxville, Tennessee, USA <smucker@use.usit.net>
------------------------------
From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE@mid.org>
Date:
Subject: Update
The other day I reminisced about some of the old timers in this forum that
we don't hear from so much any more.
The Ulick Stafford posts two days in a row -- not exactly missing, huh?
Spencer Thomas assures me he's still kicking, just busier.
And Micah continues to make a success of Murphy's Creek Brewing in
my home town! How come when I lived there the only things open after
the general store closed at 8:00 were the redneck bar and the cowboy
bar? Now there's B&B's, restaurants, a pub, and at least 3
microbreweries within 10 miles! What's next, a stoplight?
Randy Erickson
Modesto Irrigation District
Modesto, California
************************************************************
Beer is a little bit like sex in that when it's good,
it's REALLY good, but when it's bad,
it's STILL pretty good -- Dave Hinkle
------------------------------
From: "Phillip J. Birmingham" <phillip@mcs.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 13:29:49 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Kosher Beer and Heavy Honey
Daniel Goodale asks about kosher beer:
> I have a Jewish friend for whom I would
> like to brew some Kosher beer. I am woefully
> ignorant of Jewish dietary laws.
You might, if you haven't already, ask your friend if a look
around the brewery and at your ingredients will be enough. Rabbinical
supervision basically exists as a proxy for just this process, allowing
Jews to know that their food is being handled properly in situations
where they cannot themselves know precisely what is being done to it.
Afraid I can't help you with the other stuff, but maybe I've
saved you some effort.
> 7. Is this a bridge too far for the ordinary home
> brewer?
Is *any* bridge too far?
Ted Davidson asks about honey:
>Subject: Weight of Honey
>I have a honey porter recipe that calls for 3lbs of honey. The place I
>called for honey prices only sells by the pint or quart. Does anybody know
>the weight of honey?
I don't, save to say it's probably greater than that of water.
Buy three pints; it should be enough.
- --
Phillip J. Birmingham
phillip@mcs.com "Tampering in God's Domain since 1965!" TMA#7
http://www.mcs.com/~phillip/home.html
------------------------------
From: DEBOLT BRUCE <bdebolt@dow.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 96 15:04:55 -0400
Subject: London pub web site, summary
I would like to thank those who replied to my request for London pub info.
There were too many replies to send thank you notes to all. Unfortunately
I'm not going, this was for a friend, but I'm saving the posts for future
reference. Dave Harsh sent me the London pub summary from the TRASH
homepage (but the web address wasn't noted). I'd recommend that homepage
if you are interested in the details.
Bruce DeBolt
bdebolt@dow.com
------------------------------
From: aesoph@ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael)
Date: 31 May 96 15:02:39 EDT
Subject: Methanol (NOT AGAIN)
Dear Collective:
I humbly apologize for bringing up the dumb issue of methanol production
in home brew. We all know better around here. However, I have had some
of my beverages turned down by the uninitiated because of the methanol
myth. They are afraid that my beverage will cause blindness, death, etc.
I would like to reduce their fears by pointing to a credible reference
that says otherwise. Could someone out there please provide either a
definitive reference or a reasonable (technical) explanation as to why
"HOME BREW CAN'T HURT YOU"? Taken in context of course.
==================================================
Michael D. Aesoph Associate Engineer
==================================================
------------------------------
From: "Gregg A. Howard" <102012.3350@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 31 May 96 15:48:03 EDT
Subject: re: Bottling Buckets
In the interest of conserving bandwidth, I will not post my stunningly
brilliant, unsurpassedly simple, very likely unique priming and bottling
technique, but anyone interested can send me an email with the subject line
"send bottling text" and receive the outline in return. All horse-s**t aside,
it does work quite well, eliminates hose-sucking and minimizes aeration and
exposure to possible contaminants.
Gregg,
Gregg A. Howard Denver, Co. 102012.3350@compuserve.com
------------------------------
From: Rob Moline <brewer@kansas.net>
Date: Thu, 30 May 1996 23:42:07 -0500
Subject: Re: legality question
>From: Gregory King <GKING@ARSERRC.Gov>
>Subject: legality question
>The owner of a small restaurant/pub wants to enter into an arrangement
>with me where he sells my homebrew, offering it as a house brand.
>
>Do any of you know if/how this can be done legally? (the restaurant
is,
>in Pennsylvania if that matters)
Sure, it can be done legally! First, you have to go through BATF, State
of
Pennsylvania, City and County for necessary permits, licenses,
approvals, etc.
Be prepared to spend thousands of dollars, and lots of time. Then you
may
need to get a distributor involved. Is your house zoned for this
commercial
activity?
What about insurance...will your existing house policy cover this VERY
large
liability? Probably not. What about security. The BATF, etc, are VERY
interested in knowing that adequate measures are available to ensure
the
safety of the tax producing product, i.e., that no one can steal the
beer.
And on and on...
The point is that you are able to do this, depending most heavily on
whether
or not you are wealthy enough to spend thousands to get pennies in
profit. I
think you will find it's not worth it, unless you have more of a market
than
one restaurant, or want to set up a deal with him to install a brewery
in
his place, give up your day job and run it. The quantities involved are
just
too small to make you much of a return on a typical 5 gallon batch.
But, it
has been done before!
>From: Dave Mercer <dmercer@path.org>
>Subject: Bottling buckets (why?),
Did I independently arrive at a no-brainer that everyone else
>has known for years?
Yes!
>
>From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
>I love you guys. No, I mean it. I really love you guys.
SORRY, Russell, but you can't have my Little Apple beer! But I will
give you
all the BUD Light you want!
>From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
>Subject: RE:Sparge water temp
>
> In HBD #2046 Dave Beedle notes that the temperature in the lauter
tun is
>quite a bit lower than the sparge water. I too, have wondered about
this.
>Since I get good yields and the beer tastes good, I've not really
worried
> about it.
> I have been toying with the idea of heating the sparge water
enough to
> maintain the bed temperature at 165F. I've not tried it though,
because
> I'm afraid of getting the grains too hot and washing unconverted
starch
> (damn heathens!) into the kettle. I'm also unsure of what
benefit there
> would be. Perhaps sparging would be more efficient. I don't
know.
>Anybody out there know what the pro's do? I never thought to ask
during a
> brewery tour. Next time I will.
>
It would make for an interesting experiment, with temp probes
distributed
through out the mash. But I think that what you are proposing would
heat (at
least the top of the mash) higher than you would like, with resultant
extraction of tannins, etc.
At LABCO, I heat the sparge h2o to 178 F and store it in a separate
holding
tank while mashing. The sparge h2o temp is 176 or so by the time
sparging
commences. I'll do some sequential temp checks on tomorrows batch, but
I'm
quite sure that the mash temp, as indicated by grant temp, doesnt get
into
the 165 range until quite a bit into the sparge.
>From: Kallen Jenne <tirado@sprynet.com>
>Subject: Sankey Kegs for Fermenting
>Question 1:
>I understand that commercial brewers use steam to clean these filthy
>things out, but any practical ideas for a homebrewer? Is my
>cleaning/sterilization method worth a go or destined to fail due to my
>inexperience in this area?
Commercial brewers use caustic solutions to clean and h2o to rinse.
Some
countries require a final steam blast for sanitization, the US does
not.
Most keg washers made in Europe have this steam feature. But a beer keg
is
just like any other stainless vessel in a brewery. They need, every so
often, an acid bath, in addition to the caustic bath to keep beerstone
at
bay. Most brewers I talk with use an acid every 4 or 5 cleaning cycles
on
stainless.
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The more I know about beer, the more I realise I need to know more
about beer!"
------------------------------
From: WalkerMik@aol.com
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 20:31:18 -0400
Subject: All Grain Weizen
Greetings from a long time lurker and first time poster! The decoction
mashing thead of the last few days has captured my interest.
I plan to brew an all grain recipe from Eric Warner's German Wheat Beer book,
and have a few questions. I'm trying to decide if the decoction mash (my
first) would be worth the extra time and effort, or if I should just go with
an infusion mash due to the rising temp here in AZ (105 - 110 F by Monday).
An 8 hour brewing session sounds like a long day in the heat to me!
If I decided to do an infusion mash, what type of mash schedule should I
follow? Should I follow the decoction procedure, omitting the decoction?
Can anybody convince me one way or the other?
Any recommendations would be appreciated!
Mike Walker
Mesa, AZ
Does a decoction mashing FAQ exist?
------------------------------
From: Kallen Jenne <tirado@sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 18:48:08 -0700
Subject: Latino Beer Recipe?
I'm looking for an all-grain latin beer recipe (not dark beer). I seem
to recall a Corona knock-off circulating about a year or so ago, but
can't find it now. I've seen the Dos Equis recipe on Cat's Meow 3, but
I'm not really looking for that heavy of a beer. Really looking for a
Tecate/Corona/Bohemia (Brazil)/Antartica (Brazil) type of beer. Any
recipes would be helpful.
Thanks Much
Kallen Jenne
tirado@sprynet.com
------------------------------
From: "J.A. Cadieux" <s710724@aix2.uottawa.ca>
Date: Fri, 31 May 1996 21:53:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: The yeast slurry that ate New York
I recently brewed an IPA, which had a fairly high OG (~1.065). I pitched
a rehydrated 14g pack (I know, I should have started culturing again,
but I just started brewing again after a 2 yr. hiatus) of dry Whitbread Ale
yeast.
After about 8 hours, fermentation began in earnest. Over the next 36
hours, I noticed the most violent fermentation I had ever seen, then the
fermentation went dead at about 1.034 and remained there for the next
five days.
Tonight, I decided to rack the beer in a hope that it would begin
fermenting again after a little agitation and coaxing. However, when I
was racking, I found at the bottom of the fermenter the largest yeast
slurry (i.e. dregs) I had ever seen! It was over 1" deep, and I
estimated that this monster slurry cost me 2 or 3 quarts of beer. :(
I was wondering if anyone has had similar experiences (low attenuation
after an initial violent primary fermentation, very large volume of
slurry) with dry Whitbread Ale yeast.
Also, what would the recommended course of action be if the racking still
fails to induce a revival in the fermentation? I was thinking of
pitching a second time with a more attenuative yeast, but I have my
reservations about this...
Thanks,
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jay A. Cadieux "Out of the crooked timber of humanity,
Univ. of Ottawa (Hon. Chem.) no straight thing can ever by made."
s710724@aix2.uottawa.ca -Immanuel Kant
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2056
****************************
