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HOMEBREW Digest #2038
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/05/16 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #2038 Thu 16 May 1996
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Great Taste (correction) (Robert Paolino)
Results please (WOLFF)
Mills (Bill Giffin)
Homemade Mills (usbscrhc)
Milling Words & Malting Opinions (Charlie Scandrett)
Poor Fermentation - Causes? ("Howard Breitbart")
Dry hopping and FWH (George De Piro)
wierd & stuck mashes (Michael McGuire)
Broyles' Thermostat (KennyEddy)
Adjustable mills (Todd Kirby)
Gambrinus malts... (Jim Cave)
malt mill melee ("Tracy Aquilla")
Homebrew Gone Haywire! (Pete Brunelli)
Adjustable Grain Mills (Eric Peters)
Rye Recipe (RUSt1d?)
Re: Infected brews, FWH, milling (Jim Dipalma)
VirtuBrewery ("William G. Rucker")
Re: How do I use TSP for sanitizing? (hollen)
MaltMill(tm) hopper feed (Kyle R Roberson)
British pint glasses (gravels)
British pint glasses (gravels)
Extract Brewing & Water/rye problems/mill sales/intertia/flour (Algis R Korzonas)
Brew Buddies Don't Get Jack! Ha! ("Pat Babcock")
re: infected brews (Dave Whitman)
New 3Tier Brewery Question ("Kenneth D. Joseph")
Inforamtion You Requested (Steve)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 07:03:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert Paolino <rpaolino@execpc.com>
Subject: Great Taste (correction)
10th Anniversary GREAT TASTE OF THE MIDWEST
"A festival of craft brewers and their beers"
Olin-Turville Park
Madison, Wisconsin
10 August 1996
1-6pm
This is the big one, the event of the summer, the one everyone is talking
about, the major beer roadtrip for the "Heartland" and beyond....
Tickets are on sale now, but going fast.
**One correction from previous announcements, though: We will _NOT_ be able
to accept credit card orders this year. For those of you who cannot buy your
tickets in Madison, they are available by mail, but not by phone.**
If you are in a homebrew club or know other beer enthusiasts, please pass this
updated information to them--through your newsletters, at meetings, word-of-
mouth, or whatever means are appropriate.
Send your payment of $16/ticket--which gets you a beautiful commemorative
glass, a door prize entry, a chance to meet the brewers, and (of course)
almost unlimited sampling (we don't believe in those steenkin' beer
tickets/tokens) from more than 200 beers from more than 60 craft breweries and
brewpubs--payable to Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild, along with a self-
addressed-stamped-envelope to:
Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild/GT-X
Post Office Box 1365
Madison, Wisconsin 53701-1365
Recap:
1--Mark August 10 on calendar (and mark second Saturday in August each year
for remainder of century)
2--Remember, tickets on sale now, but probably available only through middle
of June
3--$16/ticket, payable to M.H.T.G. (sorry, no credit cards this year)
4--Mail check and self-addressed STAMPED envelope to address above
5--Make hotel reservations
6--Travel to Madison, Beer Capital of the Midwest
7--Enjoy great beer!
8--Visit many, many Wisconsin craft breweries and take beers home to enjoy.
9--Savour the memories, and get ready for next year (tickets on sale May 1)
Don't miss it!
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino
Madison rpaolino@earth.execpc.com
Have a beer today... for your palate and for good health
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 9:16:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: WOLFF%eclus.DNET@tron.bwi.wec.com
Subject: Results please
Would someone post the results from any of the following contests please-
Evanston 1st
Big and Huge
Green Mt. Homebrew
Oregon HB Festival
Thank you
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 21:23:34 -0500
From: Bill Giffin <billg@maine.com>
Subject: Mills
Al K says:
> You can brew prize-winning beer with a Corona,
>but I personally feel that either you must sacrifice yield (crush coarsely)
>or make VERY sure your pH is right on.
No matter how you crush you need to watch your pH at any rate. You can brew
winning beers with a Corona and not sacrifice yield. Isn't making sure that
your pH is correct part of the brewing process?
I am not in anyway promoting the Corona over anything else, but it surely is
a cost effective allternative using the proper brewing techniques.
May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you are dead,
Bill Bill Giffin
61 Pleasant St.
Richmond, ME 04357
(207)-737-2015
All you need is a few good friends and plenty to drink because thirst is a
terrible thing!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 09:38:32 EDT
From: usbscrhc@ibmmail.com
Subject: Homemade Mills
As if I don't have enough ongoing home projects....(And Ken, this one's gonna
have to come before your temp controller - wood's easier than electronics!)
Have any extract brewers out there made a small grain mill for specialty
grains??? The rolling pin's getting a little old...We're talkin' ~ 2# / batch..
I know I should be doing research before asking the group, but that's what
you're for. Any plans, advice, comments would be greatly appreciated, as always
Public or private....thanks.
Howard - Fell's Pt., MD
usbscrhc@ibmmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 22:43:32 +1000
From: merino@cynergy.com.au (Charlie Scandrett)
Subject: Milling Words & Malting Opinions
Bill Giffin posted a *refreshingly* scientific contribution to the mill thread.
>Top of the morning to ye all,
>How is your malt mill? Compared to what?
>Let's compare your mill to what Malting and Brewing Science think is
>an adequate mill.
<SNIP>
>To expect that all but 15% of your grist that has been milled with other
>then a mill that has rollers of 250 mm diameter is unrealistic but a goal
>to trive for.
The 250mm+ diameter is important. The Institute of Brewing people in England
say "The action of the mill is to squeeze the malt corn between lightly
grooved rollers so that its contents are removed, leaving the husk virtually
intact." Considerable flour will result anyway, but flour of the starchy
soft endosperm is not a quality problem. Flour of the harder pericarp and
attached aleurone layers will lead to higher polyphenol (tannin) levels and
resulting astringency. Grinding up the husks *can* lead to lautering
problems but, contrary to popular belief, no significantly greater phenol
extraction. The husk phenols are apparently different to the majority which
are in the pericarp & aleurone.
The critical factor is the angle of the roller nip. The balance between
"normal" crushing action of the gap and the "sheer" force of the roller's
dragging action determines the eveness of crush. The empirically determined
best angle of nip is 12 to 16 degrees, which for 3mm diameter malted grain
at 1.3mm gap setting, is a roller of diameter 300mm in the first rollers.
This suggests that all HB mill's rollers are small for phenols, but fine for
ecxtraction.
Size *is* important, but diameter, not length!
>The poorly thought of Corona Mill comes close to the ideal when
>properly set. 78% of the grist passes through a window screen of
>about .039" leaving the hulls whole. This is what crushing the malt is
>about, leaving the hulls whole while everything else should fit through a
>hole that is less then a 1/16". <SNIP> Why pay the additional money?
Perhaps, with careful setting the sheer and compression can be balanced?
>I have brewed about 200 batches of all grain beer over the past
>five years with all the grain milled with the Corona. For British and
>American malts I average about 32-34 ppg. With German malts the
>average is 31-33 ppg. Save your money and make more beer!
>May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you are dead,
Bill is part of the way to paradise. Intuition is not enough, in brewing,
as in life, one needs good humour and reason and he seems to have these.
There is no doubt that Jack Schmidling is a fine intuitive engineer and
brewer, but good humour and reason are *sometimes* missing from his
arguments? I am interested in a scientific explanation of the non-parallel
roller "feature", crushing some grains more lightly than others makes little
sense to me?
I mean scientific, ad hominem attacks aside, anecdotal evidence and
bombastic assertions are not much use to the rest of us. Admirers of Jack's
"up yer ribs for the rent" style notwithstanding, I find his "textbook"
catalog of logical fallacies tiresome.
JS, your provacative signature line suggests that you are looking for much
more than beer in the HBD?
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:17:24 +0000
From: "Howard Breitbart" <howitzer@ns.computer.net>
Subject: Poor Fermentation - Causes?
I've got a brew in my secondary now, that's been problematic.
So far, I've had no outward signs of fermentation. I've had little
or no activity in my airlock, but the gravity has gone from 1.048 to
1.028. I was wondering what could be the cause? I repitched a
second packet of yeast (dry) about 3 days after it was in the
primary, and even tried a second type of yeast once it went into the
secondary.
Would oxygenating a hot wort cause any effects like this? If
not, could this be caused by an infection? Any thoughts are welcome!
Howard Breitbart
Network Administrator
Insurance Services Office
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:35:31 -0700
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Dry hopping and FWH
I've seen some postings talking about FWH. I noticed one posting say
that it might be a substitute for dry hopping. How can that be? I've
never tried FWH, and I'm not sure I understand it correctly. Does it
mean that you add the hops to the wort before bringing it to a boil
and then let them boil the entire time? If this is correct, how could
this possibly increase hop aroma? According to texts I've read, it
shouldn't increase flavor or bitterness either (both of these
qualities actually decrease if the hops are boiled for too long). Am
I not understanding this correctly? Please end my confusion.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 08:53:39 -0500
From: mcguire@hvsun40.mdc.com (Michael McGuire)
Subject: wierd & stuck mashes
Hi fellow brewers,
I had two batches with problems sparging and was hoping for some wisdom from
the netwisdom. The first was a SNP clone. I was using 10# of base malt
and crystal + carapils. I mashed in my converted cooler for about 1 hr. Then
drained out about 2 gallons of liquid heated to a boil and added back to the
mash for mashout. When I started sparging I noticed the grain bed level was
laways level with the water. Humm, it was floating. Is this proper??? I got
fantastic efficency and hope to try to repeat this.. Got any suggestion??
Next. I have never had a stuck sparge until last night. Ive done Wiezens with
80% wheat. I've used massive amounts of flaked barley, oatmeal,unmalted wheat.
I had never had a problem. Well I was brewing a corn ale recipe I got from
HBD. It consisted of;
5 # cracked corn
9 # Pils malt
bring the corn to a boil in 5 gallons of water,
let cool until 170, mash at 155. Mashout and
sparge to 10 gallons.
OG 1.048
Well, I tried this and after bioling the corn. I had the largest batch of
cream corn you have ever seen. I mashed in the barley and after an
hour the consistency seem to have changed. But when I put it in
the cooler and started the sparge. It ran cloudy for several quarts. When
it started to clear. IT stocped flowing after a quart!! The corn was
so heavy?? it seem to have compacted the bed. I finally after 2 hrs of
frustration, didn't worry about clear wort and just boiled it with massive
break? particles. Now I figured after I siphon of the break I'll have
5 gallons instead of ten. Can someone please give me some advise so
I can try this again with better sucssess. The only thing I can find would
be that the corn was cracked too fine.
Thanks in advance
Michael
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:43:30 -0400
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Subject: Broyles' Thermostat
Robin S. Broyles presented a fridge/freezer thermostat at
http://rbpmac.sandia.gov/ServerFolder/TempControl.JPG
Nice job, Robin! Just wanted to say to all that for anyone who's "not
inclined" to build an electronic unit, this is about as close to ready-made
as you'll get without going to something like the Hunter (which Barry
Wertheimer recently suggested had "problems" -- can you elaborate?).
Although it's all hi-voltage 120VAC wiring, Robin's clear diagram should
make it practically goof-proof for all but the most mechanically-challenged
among us.
Please observe the 8A rating. While this should cover most freezers &
fridges, larger and/or older units may require more power than this (8A
equates to about 1000W [1.34 hp] at 120 VAC). See if there's a power
consumption rating on the appliance before you start. If your unit is rated
at greater than 8A, 1000W, or 1.34 hp, you'll have to find an alternative.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:19:38 -0400 (EDT)
From: Todd Kirby <mkirby@bgsm.edu>
Subject: Adjustable mills
I felt a need to respond to the recent charges that only those with
non-adjustable mills feel that adjustability is not important. I have an
adjustable maltmill (tm) that has never needed adjusting from the
original setting. I had used a Corona before purchasing the maltmill, so
I was aware of the importance of making proper adjustments. Even after
reading Jack's spec sheets, etc. on the adjustable vs non-adjustable
versions, I purchased the adjustable as a kind of "just in case". I've
since realized it was probably a waste of money (again as Jack hinted)
since it just doesn't seem to be an issue. I'm not associated with JSP in
any way, other than a satisfied customer. One other point to be made is
this. When I'm running raw red wheat throught the mill, I'm damn happy
the rollers aren't resting on plastic. I find it hard to believe that
your average homebrewer couldn't wear out plastic bushings after a few
years of chucking up his/her 3/8 drill to grind grain.
Todd Kirby
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 8:34:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Cave <CAVE@PSC.ORG>
Subject: Gambrinus malts...
As a B.C. chap who has has used the Gambrinus malts, my view is somewhat
neutral. Because I'm close by, they're cheap and I've used them (especially
cheap if you win a bag or two in your local competition). The honey malt
is similar to some of the Belgian aromatics. It really does smell like honey.
I won a bag of the stuff--I use it occassionally, in small amounts. Some of
the commercial brewers locally don't like it. They feel it is a munich malt
gone awry. I'm not fussed on the wheat malt. It's quite dark, quite trubby
and has a fairly low extract, relative to other wheat's I've used. The
pale malt is also low extract (relative to canadian 2 row), more similar to
the German pilsner malts I've used, but, like the canadian malts, has a higher
colour than the pilsner malts. However, the price is quite good, again.
I've also used the Munich 90. I'm not so sure it is as good as the Hugh Baird
munich (I've not tried this stuff, but I've tried wonderful beers made from it).
I don't know if Gambrinus's quality matches up with the DWC malts.
Probably not. Or with some of the better german malts. But...it's available
here. What can I say?
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 96 11:39:27 CDT
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: malt mill melee
In Digest #2036:
Bill Giffin <billg@maine.com> wrote:
>The poorly thought of Corona Mill comes close to the ideal when
>properly set.
Well, there's one problem. Getting it "properly set" and keeping it that way
appears to be a trick many people have difficulty mastering.
>78% of the grist passes through a window screen of
>about .039" leaving the hulls whole.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I'm skeptical; I've never seen a Corona work that well before!
>The price of a Corona Mill is about $40 bucks and does as good a job as all the
>roller mills that are on the homebrew market.
That's one man's opinion; many disagree. While it's quite possible to obtain
an acceptable quality crush using a Corona mill, in practice, most brewers
who have tried agree it's very difficult, if not impossible to obtain a
crush of the high quality consistently produced by most roller mills.
>My question is why would anyone want a roller mill that doesn't get any higher
>extract from the grain, nor does it make any better beer...
There are numerous reasons why one might choose a different type of grain
mill than you choose for yourself. First, the majority of brewers seem to
agree that roller mills generally yield a consistently superior quality
crush than a Corona mill does, and that appears to be reason enough for many
roller mill fans. Whether or not extract yield is higher is probably not a
deciding factor for most individuals; consistency and ease of lautering and
sparging are frequently of more concern.
>(Three of the top competition brewers in New England use a Corona Mill).
Is this supposed to be an endorsement from the 'pros'? I don't doubt that
great beer can be made with a Corona mill, but that doesn't mean that it's
easy, consistent, or that everyone should try it. I imagine far more award
wining beers are made from roller-milled than from Corona-milled malt these
days, however, I don't believe that the quality of the beer necessarily has
much to do with the identity of the tool used to crush the grain in any case.
>Why pay the additional money?
Maybe because some people simply think it's the best tool for the job? High
throughput with minimal effort (ease-o-use) and an exceptionally
high-quality crush every time (consistent) without ever having to adjust
anything makes a (fixed) roller mill worth the price for me!
>I have brewed about 200 batches of all grain beer over the past
>five years with all the grain milled with the Corona. For British and
>American malts I average about 32-34 ppg. With German malts the
>average is 31-33 ppg.
Has the run-off never been slow or stuck completely? Your system extract
yield probably has very little to do with which mill you use to crush the
malt. If you get 32 pg/p with your system and using a Corona mill, you'd
probably get about the same when using a roller mill.
>...and make more beer!
I agree; make (and drink) more beer!
Tracy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:42:50 -0400
From: Pete Brunelli <pcb@connix.com>
Subject: Homebrew Gone Haywire!
I had "Longshot" Hazelnut Ale last night and i gotta say "WOW".
I wish i had swiped a bottle so that i would have better info, but it is
made by Boston Brewing and is a winnig recipe from a recent homebrew
competition. BB is planning on marketing the winning recipes from the
Lager, Ale, and Specialty categories. If the rest stack up as well as
"longshot" then there is some interesting tasting to be done.
Overall impression: Actual Homebrew Character (totally Subjective), listed
OG of about 135 and it tastes like it, natural hazelnut flavor excellent
without being overpowering, great head, fab finish. If I brewed this i
would be WAY happy.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 96 11:57:19 EDT
From: Eric Peters <epeters@harris.com>
Subject: Adjustable Grain Mills
From: "Bryan Dawe -GHL" <bryand@larry.fc.hp.com> in HBD#2035
>Well, I own a mill (JSP MaltMill model P) with fixed roller clearances.
>I also believe adjustability in a two roller mill is not important.
>And there *is* a causal relationship between these two statements.
From: Chris Strickland <cstrick@iu.net> in HBD#2037
>Well, I have an adjustable JSP MaltMill, and I just leave where the mark is
>on the green line. I only thought adjustability was important when using
>corn, wheat or rice. So I guess even though I have an adjustable mill, I
>don't think it's important for grain.
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com> in HBD#2037
>Jake and I have an adjustable JSP MaltMill, which we bought from Al Korzonas
>(before he stopped selling them, I guess). Works great. Wouldn't mind a
>bigger hopper, though. Also - I wouldn't recommend getting an adjustable one.
>More PITA than it's worth, IMO. (Jake may disagree.)
I also have an adjustable JSP MaltMill, and I haven't adjusted it for
approximately 50 (10 gal.) batches. My next mill will definitely have
fixed rollers.
From: Todd Mansfield <102444.1032@CompuServe.COM>
>Even so, I sometimes choose a clearance outside the 'nominal' range.
>Sometimes for learning (i.e. how do runoff and extraction depend on
>crush?) and other times because of grain. A good example is Cara-
>Pils Malt (U.S. 6-row). The kernels are small and tough. I prefer a
>smaller roller clearance for it. (For reasons unrelated to milling, I
>rarely use this malt anymore.) As always, YMMV.
My understanding is that a coarse crush on small kernels like wheat
can be corrected by running all or a portion of the crushed grist
through the mill a second time. I suspect that, for a pound of
wheat, this would be much easier than searching the car, boat, garage,
and basement for a 9/16 wrench to loosen the set screw and make
the neccessary adjustment, then adjust it back to nominal for the
remainder of your grain bill. HOWEVER, I have not tried this because
I'm easily satisfied, and settle for a single pass. Perhaps someone
with experience would care to comment. (I've been waiting.)
Eric Peters
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:57:39 -0400
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@swamp.li.com>
Subject: Rye Recipe
How does this sound for a refreshing crisp summer brew?
Name: "Three-Two" O.G.: 1.032
Style: Rye I.B.U.: 32.0
Volume: 12.0 gallons A.B.V.: 3.2%
Grains/Fermentables Lbs Hops AAU Oz Min
Pale, American 6 Row 10.00 Willamette 4.7 3.05 60
Rye, Malt 5.00 Cascade 4.2 1.00 30
Crystal 40, American 2.00 Cascade 4.2 1.00 0
Yeast: American Ale 1 & 2 -- Miscellaneous Ingredients
Irish Moss - 2 Tsp.
I plan on splitting to two batches and trying 1056 and 1272 side by side.
Also, how does the addition of lemon juice sound for this recipe? I was
thinking of about 1 cup in 5 gallons?
Thanks to all (*Rob*) for all the wonderful information here. I began
extract brewing in November and switched to all grain after 4 batches.
After only six months of brewing, an orginal porter recipe (Pine Box)
of mine was awarded 3rd place in a local competition. This would not
have been possible without the high level of information presented
here (and the books of papazian, miller, noonan, line and many issues
of Zymurgy).
John Varady
Boneyard Brewing
"Pretty Sneaky Sis..." The Kid in the Connect 4 commerical.
**************************
** rust1d@li.com **
** John Nicholas Varady ** <-- Now Engaged.
** Eve Courtney Hoyt **
**************************
http://www.netaxs.com/people/vectorsys/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 96 13:17:43 EDT
From: dipalma@sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: Re: Infected brews, FWH, milling
Hi All,
In HBD #2037, Bob Bessette writes:
>I have had 3 infected brews in a row and never had a problem with 20
>previous batches. The symptoms are small stringy white stuff on the top of
>the bottle, gushing of the brew after opened, and a distinct off-flavor in
>the brew. I am hoping that I have narrowed down what the problem is. I had
>purchased 2 Hop-Tech bags of E.Kent Goldings hop flowers. I have used these
>only for dry hopping. Upon opening the first bag they suggest to put the
>hops into mason jars and put them in the freezer. I did not have a problem
>with the first couple of batches but I think after the length of time of
>being in the freezer some bacteria got into the hops.
HopTech is my standard supplier for whole hops. I've got a freezer full of
purged mason jars containing HopTech hop, EKG among them. I've dryhopped
batch after batch with hops from these jars, some of which have been stored
for nearly a year, with nary an infection. From talking to other homebrewers,
I don't think many of us go to any great lengths to sanitize dry hops. If the
jars you're using were reasonably clean to begin with, and you purged them,
it's hard to imagine that this is the source of the infection.
> The reason I think
>that the problem is due to the dry hopping is because the beer smells
>excellent after the primary fermentation. Toward the end of the secondary
>fermentation with dry hopping I start to see this whitish material on top of
>the brew.
So, you notice the infection in secondary, but not in primary. Hmmm, check
your racking tube/wand, see if you notice any small cracks inside.
BTW Bob, the current prez of BFD lives in your hometown. We'd still love to
have you join us. :-)
*********************************************************
Also in HBD #2037, Neal Christensen writes:
>I just tried my first batch of first wort hopped pilsner. I do think that
>the procedure resulted in a nice hop FLAVOR profile (not bitterness, but hop
>flavor). And, as I understand, the usual procedure of hopping 5 minutes
>before the end of the boil is to enhance hop flavor and aroma. Well I was
>having a problem with understanding how the volatile aroma hop oils could
>survive a FWH schedule. IMHO, my pilsner has an improved hop flavor
>profile, but lacks the aroma I was looking for.
I've brewed about 8 batches using FWH, various styles including a pils, and
this is consistent with my experience. I get clean, smooth, hop flavor that
seems to complement and enhance the bitterness, but virtually no hop aroma.
> I used noble hop plugs in
>the FWH and did not add any hops at the end. I'm now thinking that I will
>use both FWH and a final 5-minute hop on my next pilsner. Hopefully this
>will provide both a great hop flavor and aroma profile. Any thoughts on this?
For those styles that call for hop aroma, I've gone back to dryhopping in the
keg in addition to FWH. These beers have plenty of hop flavor and aroma.
*********************************************************
Also in HBD #2037, WESLEY@bnlarm.bnl.gov writes:
>I have
>found in tinkering with my home made mill that playing with the spacing of the
>rollers does not affect the yield much, but careful setting can dramatically
>reduce the amount of flour produced.
The spec sheets on the malts I've been getting consistently show a fine/coarse
grind extract difference of less than 2%. This is indicative of the high levels
of modification of modern day malts. What this means for us is that tinkering
with roller gap by a few thousandths of an inch will have very little effect
on yield. As this poster points out, it can have a significant effect on
other aspects of crushing malt, e.g., flour production.
The classic tradeoff between fine/coarse grind is that the finer grind gives
higher extraction, at the cost of husk damage and additional flour produced.
Excessively damaged husks and large amounts of flour can cause lautering
problems, filtration, increased likelyhood of a stuck sparge, etc. However,
given the fine/coarse grind numbers I've seen recently, I'm not so certain
this tradeoff still holds.
Several months back, I loosened the gap on my mill from .045" to .050". I get
somewhat less husk damage at this setting, but more notably, I get virtually
the same extraction numbers as before. The advantages of the somewhat looser
crush are that the runoff clears quickly, with very little recirculation
required, I can sparge faster without risking compaction of the grain
bed, and did not have to sacrifice extraction to get there.
Cheers,
Jim dipalma@sky.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 May 96 13:34:04 EST
From: "William G. Rucker" <ruckewg@naesco.com>
Subject: VirtuBrewery
To those of you who may be interested in building or in helping to
design and build a home brewery, the VirtuBrewery is online. The URL
is
http://www.dnh.mv.net/ipusers/peanut/brewbild.htm
If you have built a home brewery in the past, take a look at the site
and see if you can help me out. Please forward any problems accessing
the site to my home email address: brewzer@peanut.mv.com
Thanks in advance for your help.
Bill Rucker
See the VirtuBrewery!
http://www.dnh.mv.net/ipusers/peanut/brewbild.htm
email: brewzer@peanut.mv.com
or ruckewg@naesco.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 May 96 12:27:44 PDT
From: hollen@vigra.com
Subject: Re: How do I use TSP for sanitizing?
>>>>> "Lenny" == Lenny Garfinkel <lenny@parker.inter.net.il> writes:
In article
Lenny> The subject says it all. I have seen references on using
Lenny> trisodium phosphate (TSP) for sanitizing, but I don't remember
Lenny> ever seeing specifics. Could someone who uses TSP write about
Lenny> exactly how they sanitize? Concentrations and times, etc.
You don't. TSP is *NOT* a sanitizer, but a cleaner. CTSP
(chlorinated TSP) will sanitize, but is hard to find. You would be
much better off to use iodophor for sanitization. It can be kept in a
sealed opaque container for long periods, this stretching its useful
life nearly indefinitely.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 12:00:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kyle R Roberson <roberson@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
Subject: MaltMill(tm) hopper feed
My MaltMill(tm) hopper holds about two pounds or so of malt. The
way I use it though, it is big enough. I weigh out all my malt in
a HDPE bucket. It's usually 8 to 10 pounds, but has been as high
as 16 pounds. I then place the mill on another HDPE bucket; the
mill has rubber feet made to fit into the bucket opening and
seal the dust, etc. in. I put this on my work bench and attach
my variable-speed drill to the drive shaft. I operate the drill
with my right hand. With my left hand, I balance the bucket full
of grain between my left shoulder and the edge of the hopper.
I can easily controll how fast the grain feeds into the hopper.
I usually keep it about half full for a nice smooth crush. This
operation only takes a minute or so. I suppose I could rig up a
bucket with a knife gate, but this part of the brewing day is
already so fast and easy.
This method is really handy when crushing RAW wheat. Raw wheat
will jam the rollers and the drill can't overcome the crushing
resistance. So, I modify my method so that I let the grain flow
out of the bucket at the same rate it is crushed. The rollers
remain unloaded, using only an inch or so of the rollers instead
of letting it spread all across them as is typical (and desirable)
for malt.
I have also used this method in a sitting position with the bucket
resting on my knee and the edge of the hopper. This is fine too, but
it usually takes longer to get out a chair and clear a space in my
garage than it does to crush the grain standing up!
I do have one suggestion for Jack to incorporate into his mill if
he already hasn't. The roller assembly rests on a board that makes
the seal on the bucket referred to above. The hole cut in this board
is slightly smaller than the walls of the roller assembly. This
doesn't affect the crush. But afterwards when I clean the rollers with
a brush, this lip traps malt flour. I have to work it back and forth to
get it off. I probably don't get it as clean as I should. If it were
flush, the flour would fall out as I took it off the rollers. I don't
beleive this change would affect the operation or strength of the mill
in a material way.
Regards,
Kyle
(soon to be a brewery owner)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 May 96 12:20:37 EST
From: gravels@TRISMTP.Npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Subject: British pint glasses
Hi All,
I heard a rumor a couple of years ago and I would like to know if
any of the British homebrewers out there can substantiate it for me.
I was told that a law was passed stating that pubs in London had
to scrap their standard 20 oz. pint glasses and replace them with 22
oz. glasses. This was due to the rationalization that a true pint is
equal to 20 ozs. of beer and what was actually being served was 18
ozs. of beer and 2 ozs. of head. The 22 oz. glasses would hold a full
20 ozs. of beer and still allow for 2 ozs. of head! I like that kind
of regulation!
Anyone know if this is true? TIA.
Steve Gravel Newport, Rhode Island
gravels@TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
"Homebrew, it's not just a hobby it's an adventure!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 96 07:28:58 EST
From: gravels@TRISMTP.Npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Subject: British pint glasses
Hi All,
I heard a rumor a couple of years ago and I would like to know if
any of the British homebrewers out there can substantiate it for me.
I was told that a law was passed stating that pubs in London had
to scrap their standard 20 oz. pint glasses and replace them with 22
oz. glasses. This was due to the rationalization that a true pint is
equal to 20 ozs. of beer and what was actually being served was 18
ozs. of beer and 2 ozs. of head. The 22 oz. glasses would hold a full
20 ozs. of beer and still allow for 2 ozs. of head! I like that kind
of regulation!
Anyone know if this is true? TIA.
Steve Gravel Newport, Rhode Island
gravels@TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
"Homebrew, it's not just a hobby it's an adventure!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 96 14:15:25 CDT
From: korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: Extract Brewing & Water/rye problems/mill sales/intertia/flour
Ken writes:
>In other words, they basically use "distilled" water! An interesting result
Not quite. Remember that extract is about 20% water and some water is
lost during the regular boil and some more to trub and hops... so they
have to add probably about 30% well water which could be very high in
sulphates and maybe even carbonates.
>is the pre-concentration pH -- 5.4 to 5.8 -- which is higher than the ~5.0 to
>5.4 range we typically shoot for. The lack of additional calcium might be
>preventing further acidification (although there is some leftover!?); sources
>I have seen (Pappazzian? I forget which) indicate that adding distilled water
>to plain pale grain results in pH's in the "high-five's". Perhaps the small
>amount of hard makeup water they use has sufficient calcium to bring them
>into a suitable range.
That's my guess. Note that it's not the calcium that lowers the pH itself,
but rather the calcium reaction with phosphates (I believe) in the malt
which lowers the pH. Since there is left over calcium, I suspect that
all the phosphate reactions that were going to take place have already
taken place and adding more calcium will not lower the pH any more.
>As far as the "untested cations" go, I'm just guessing here but I'd say the
>malt would not contain any appreciable SO4- or Cl- anyway; so the above
>analysis should be complete as far as ions relevent to brewing go. Anyone
>care to elaborate?
Sulphate (SO4) can be very relevent. Remember that in Burton-on-Trent
the sulphates can get up into the 700's at some times of the year. Since
30% or more water can be added and if the Suffolk water has, say 300 ppm
of SO4, you may have 100ppm of sulphate in the extract PLUS whatever you
have in your base water when you make beer from the extract.
>Since they start with essentially "ion-free" water, the ions they are listing
30% admittedly "particularly hard water" is not ion-free.
<snip>
>What does this mean for extract brewers and water treatment? Obviously not
>all the calcium available (in the malt itself) is being used, although the pH
>is still a bit high. Perhaps another 10 ppm or so (SWAG) would drop it to
>the "ideal range". Other ions are not of significant consequence during the
As I said before, I think that all the calcium reactions that are likely
to take place already have and adding more Ca will not help lower the pH.
>mash, so I'd be inclined to try to duplicate those concentrations closely.
> The exception would be carbonates, which for extract brewing we would
>ideally want to totally eliminate anyway; try to minimize CO3 in the original
>water.
This is very wrong. If you are making a stout, you would most certainly
would like to have some amount of carbonates in the water to balance the
acidity of the dark grains. Otherwise you have a noticeably sour beer.
>Bottom line: If all this speculation is true, then water treatment for
>extract brewers should be no different than that for grain brewers, with the
>possible exception that using much lower levels of calcium than proposed in a
>target profile would not have significant effect. Also, carbonate should be
>avoided as well, due to its secondary effects on color and bitterness.
I think it's true that we can assume that the levels of sulphate and
carbonate in the extract are lower than the well water of the region
in which it is made (because of the fact that probably most extract mfgs
so recycle condensate from their concentration process). However, the
sulphate and carbonate levels are unlikely to be so low that we should
ignore them. I agree that there is probably enough calcium for yeast
flocculation and calcium oxalate (beerstone) production (so that there are
not oxalate haze problems).
So, the bottom line is that extract brewers should probably assume that
they are getting something like 25 to 100 ppm of sulphate and add sulphate
via gypsum if they are making beers that require high sulphate (like IPAs or
Dortmunders). If, when making a Pilsner there is a long, lingering bitterness,
but you used distilled water, then try a different extract since the extract
you used appears to have a significant amount of sulphates. Regarding
carbonate, I think that if extract brewers simply add chalk (calcium
carbonate) to the boil of dark beers till the pH is in the 5.0 to 5.5 range
(cool before measuring), that they will have the proper amount carbonates
for the style.
***
George reports problems lautering a high-rye (60%) mash.
I had a similar experience. My mash was 43% rye and 57% 2-row (Munton's
I think). I miscalculated my strike temps and missed my beta-glucan and
protein rests compleatly. Forging ahead, I cooled it down with ice to
122F and let it sit there for an hour (if memory serves correctly) then
boosting to 150F for a two-hour amylase rest with boiling water. I
believe that I heated directly to get it up to about 165F for mashout
(but only really to try to loosen this oatmeal). When it came time to
lauter (this is all in an EasyMasher(tm), by the way), I opened the
valve and this goo barely oozed out of the stopcock and down the tube.
Well, three hours later (!) I had collected 6.5 gallons of wort, so I
gave up. My extract yield was in the 30's DESPITE THE FACT THAT THE
FINALL OOZINGS WERE STILL IN THE TEENS!!! I think I could have gotten
nearly 40 pts/lb/gal if I had taken 7.5 gallons of oozings.
I don't feel that the resulting beer was over-done with rye flavour, but
it didn't do well in any competitions as yet. I'm eager to read what
they said on the 1st round scoresheets for this beer. Personally, I
liked it a lot. Refreshing? Forget it... at 1.071 OG and a very heavy
mouthfeel this was not a summer beer!
The moral of the story is that a slow lauter is NOT a set mash (or stuck
sparge as some people say) and patience is a virtue.
***
Russell writes:
>Jake and I have an adjustable JSP MaltMill, which we bought from Al Korzonas
>(before he stopped selling them, I guess).
That's right... I used to sell MaltMills(tm) and PhilMills(tm), but space
and capital investment restrictions forced me to refer interested parties
to mailorder sources. Grain mills are an odd item -- you sit on eight of
them for 6 months and then all eight sell out in a two week span (and no,
it's not the two weeks before Christmas).
Just wanted to clarify.
***
I wrote:
>thermal intertia
That should have been "thermal inertia."
***
WESLEY writes:
>I have
>found in tinkering with my home made mill that playing with the spacing of the
>rollers does not affect the yield much, but careful setting can dramatically
>reduce the amount of flour produced.
George Fix wrote an article for Zymurgy (the issue with the mill comparison)
and in it he wrote that ideally, we would like to have the husks intact, but
the insides compleatly turned to flour. I believe he quoted from DeClerck.
Basically, flour is not a bad thing unless you mash-in sloppily and get balled
starch. If that's the case, then flour can be a problem. Perhaps what I'm
trying to say is that the more flour you have, the more careful you need to
be when mashing-in, but otherwise it's not a problem. It will all get
converted to sugars if everything else in your mash goes well... right?
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 15:03:08 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock@oeonline.com>
Subject: Brew Buddies Don't Get Jack! Ha!
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
An idea has popped forth from a submission to the Brew Buddies page
from Bob - The Old Curmudgeon <warlock@sanfran.infinex.com>. The Brew
Buddies page will carry two lists - the Buddies, those wishing to
enter into a homebrew exchange; and the Pards, those looking for
brewing partners in their respective areas.
Soooooo, if you're a solo brewer itching to find a partner to share
the cost, work and wort, send a note having the words "brew buddy" in
the subject line (with or without the quotes) to
pbabcock@oeonline.com. In this note, you ABSOLUTELY MUST include the
following information (no exceptions, no excuses...):
Your NAME
Your LOCATION (Including City, State/Province, and COUNTRY)
Your E-MAIL ADDRESS (kind of pointless without it, isn't it?)
For the short term, I'll list the Pards at the end of the Buddies. In
the long term, I'll separate the two into two different anchored
lists for quick reference!
- ----------------------
As for the current MaltMill [tm] thread, I am one of thse who bought
an adjustable MaltMill after considerng all the "data" I could find
on mills. Aside from the Elmers Glue letting go in the hopper (e-mail
to Jack and the "expense" of a few drops of glue, and I was back in
business), I have none, zip, nada to complain about. The mill is a
joy to use, and my extraction rates are more than acceptiable -
they're exceptional! 'Twasn't so with that Magnificent Mexican Malt
Mill - El Corona. And I have to agree with Jack <shudder> on the
point regarding adjustability. After some preliminary twiddling with
the gap settings, I have settled on one to be used as "the setting".
Coincidentally, this is the same setting it was at when shipped....
- ----------------------
Just when you thought you had it made! You get me to stop poking fun
via the Digest, and some turkey gives Jack unlimited access! What a
hapless lot! Enjoy the infommercials...
See ya!
Pat Babcock pbabcock@oeonline.com
http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
(C) Copyright 1984 The Post Content Vigilantes
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 16:23:55 -0400
From: dwhitman@rohmhaas.com (Dave Whitman)
Subject: re: infected brews
In HBD2037, Bob Bessette wonders whether he infected 3 batches during dry
hopping:
> I have had 3 infected brews in a row and never had a problem with 20
>previous batches. The symptoms are small stringy white stuff on the top of
>the bottle, gushing of the brew after opened, and a distinct off-flavor in
>the brew. I am hoping that I have narrowed down what the problem is. I had
>purchased 2 Hop-Tech bags of E.Kent Goldings hop flowers. I have used these
>only for dry hopping. Upon opening the first bag they suggest to put the
>hops into mason jars and put them in the freezer. I did not have a problem
>with the first couple of batches but I think after the length of time of
>being in the freezer some bacteria got into the hops.
Just a data point. I buy EKG hops from Hop-Tech, and just as you do, pack
them out in mason jars which I freeze to store. I have dry hopped with '94
and '95 crop EKG from Hop-Tech stored this way and haven't had an infection
(yet).
Hops are supposed to help supress spoiling and I always assumed I didn't
need to worry about bacterial growth on them. I make no special attempt to
keep the hops sterile (I pack them into the mason jars with my bare hands;
jars are clean but not sanitized).
- ---
Dave Whitman
Rohm and Haas Specialty Materials
dwhitman@rohmhaas.com
------------------------------
Date: 15 May 96 18:31:27 EDT
From: "Kenneth D. Joseph" <74651.305@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: New 3Tier Brewery Question
Hi Folks,
I'm in the process of building a 3 Tier gravity fed brewery, and a question has
been plaguing me. A pump isn't in the budget quite yet, so when recirculating
the first runnings manually, what is the best way to insure an even sprinkle
over the grain bed? Some kind of funnel mounted between the ball valve and the
sparge spiral? Does it not matter too much and should I just dump it ever so
gingerly until I can afford the pump? Thanks in advance for the help. Private
e-mail would be appreciated.
kj
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 16:35:17 -0500
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------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2038, 05/16/96
*************************************
-------
