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HOMEBREW Digest #2033
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/05/10 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #2033 Fri 10 May 1996
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Grain Mills (Todd Mansfield)
Of interest to local yeast ranchers (TPuskar)
First Wort Hopping (djfitzg)
Re: idophor ("Dave Higdon")
Thanks Rob & All Y'all / Coffee-Maker-Eatin' Hard Water (KennyEddy)
Looking for Recipe/Testing Alpha acids (Scott Abene)
HOPS (Paul Feine)
Brewers in Linkoeping, Sweden (rq)
wort cooling (lheavner)
Stuck Sparge (Jack Schmidling)
Re: Iodophor (Mike Uchima)
Re: Flaked Barley (James Gallagher)
Cream Ale (TMCASTLE)
Oven Cleaner on Stainless/ Passivation ("Palmer.John")
All grain vs. Partial extract ("FINLEY, BARRY CURTIS")
Are stale grains a possibility? (Brian Gardner)
mills (Jeremy Bergsman)
Hop Oxidation cont. ("Don Van Valkenburg")
Here's rye in yereye ("Gregory, Guy J.")
RE: Kits + Lots O' Questions (usbscrhc)
Honey Malt and Gambrinus (Mark Garetz)
Holes in false bottom ("Jim Wasielewski")
Question on beer glasses (Woody Weaver)
Iodophors (Simonzip)
Commencement of Boil Hopping/Clarity/Iodophor Concentration (RMoline930)
Does size matter? (Robert Paolino)
Calculating efficiency: before or after the boil?!? ("Pat Babcock")
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 08 May 96 23:30:05 EDT
From: Todd Mansfield <102444.1032@CompuServe.COM>
Subject: Grain Mills
> Any opinions on these mill and any others out there that the rest of
>you recommend? Where is the best place to get them?
I've used a Phil Mill for about 3 years now. Some weeks ago, our club
had "mill night", so I got to compare most of the mills now sold.
(Dan Listermann is a friend, but I have no financial stake in his
company.)
Weak Points:
- It cranks stiffer than the 2-roller designs.
If you turn it with a hand-held drill (easy to do), it's not an issue.
Strong Points:
- gives a nice grist (other mills do too)
- price
- the roller clearance adjustment is easy, backlash-free, and can
be done on the fly.
People who say adjustability isn't important tend to own mills with
fixed roller clearances (or mills that are inconvenient to adjust!)
I find that each grain type has its own optimal setting. (In most cases
the settings differ only slightly--the tooth-breaking domestic cara pils
being a prominent exception. :)
I love puttering, so I mounted my Phil Mill in an old homemade
nightstand (from college days) with an electric motor purchased from
a surplus catalog. My milling life is now sublime.
Todd Mansfield
Beer... the versatile verb.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 07:09:55 -0400
From: TPuskar@aol.com
Subject: Of interest to local yeast ranchers
I'm considering buying a case of petri dishes (probably about 500) whic is
far too many for me to use in a reasonable time. I'm also considering buying
some capped test tubes for making slants.
Anybody want to share?
I live in central NJ so delivery/pick up in the local area might make this
attractice. UPS shipping would also be reasonably cheap.
Email if you are interested.
Tom Puskar
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 96 08:08:21 EDT
From: djfitzg@VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: First Wort Hopping
For any all grain brewers who have not tried FWH, I would suggest you give it
chance. I have just tapped into two of the finest kegs of pilsner, I have
had the pleasure of brewing at home.(IMHO)
After recirculating your first runnings, simply add whole or plug hops directly
to the boiling pot as you sparge. In addition to bittering hops, late
additions, and dry hopping, I feel the FWH made a noticable difference in the
finished product. It did not affect clarity at all.
My thanks to everyone who gave us this advice this past winter, it certainly
made a difference in the beer I'm drinking this spring.
Dan Fitzgerald
djfitzg@vnet.ibm.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 09:01:59 EST
From: "Dave Higdon" <DAVEH@qesrv1.bwi.wec.com>
Subject: Re: idophor
I am also just starting to use it.
Their are some good articles on the web on using idophor. From what I
have read you need to add 1-2tsp of it with 5gal. COLD water , and it is
only good to use when it still has brownish color. Here is the
addresss i found it at:
http://alpha.rollanet.org/Library.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:01:29 -0400
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Subject: Thanks Rob & All Y'all / Coffee-Maker-Eatin' Hard Water
At the risk of appearing trite I too would like to toss in a "thanks" to Rob
for the effort on running the Digest. The "daily homebrew club meeting" has
enhanced my knowledge of brewing significantly and I am certainly making
better beer as a result. After three years of incremental knowledge gain,
once I joined the HBD I've probably doubled my expertise in the several
months since. I just hope the AoB can live up to the standards and
expectations of this unique bunch of beer lovers.
And "thanks" to the, um, collective (there, I said it) for all the personal
and public help I've received. As long as we can maintain such a forum I
don't think we have anything to worry about regardless of the janitorship.
************************
Al Clement asks
> OK, neophyte question time. Our city well water is incredibly hard (we
> go through 2-3 coffee makers a year) but still tastes ok. Since I
> haven't made the leap to all grain and am brewing with extracts and
> speciality grains just how concerned should I be about water
> chemistry.
As an extract brewer, you don't need to worry about the aspects of water
chemistry that affect mashing (largely clacium and carbonates). However,
flavor and certain other aspects of your beer will be affected to some degree
regardless of your brewing technique. Most prominent will be the effects of
excess sulphate (SO4) but too much magnesium (Mg), sodium (Na), or chloride
(Cl) can harshen your beer as well. Carbonates (CO3) and it's cronies can
affect color. Sulphates tend to harshen hop character; in some beers like
IPA's this can be OK if controlled. Magnesium can be bitter above 30 ppm or
so, and sodium and chloride can be harsh or salty in very high amounts. But
all of these ions can also enhance your beer in appropriate levels.
If your water is that hard, chances are you have high levels of these other
ions and you might need to take water treatment to heart, even with extract
brewing. Get an analysis from your city (should be free). Take a look at
any homebrewing book's treatment of water chemistry or download my primer
from
ftp://users.aol.com/kennyeddy/water/wchemprm.wri
(or get the *.txt file if you aren't using Windows).
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 09:06:20 -0500
From: Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com>
Subject: Looking for Recipe/Testing Alpha acids
Howdy All,
I am looking for an all-grain Heffe-Weiss recipe.
The recipe should be for a 5 gallon batch. Private email is always welcome.
On another note. Does anyone know how if there is a way for me to test Alpha
Acid on my homegrown hops or do I need to send them out to a lab? Has anyone
ever done their own testing?
Thanks for any help,
-Scott "Let's make every Farging day National Homebrew Day!!!" Abene
####################################################
# ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT #
# Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com> #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat #
# (Skotrats Official Homebrew "Beer Slut" Webpage) #
# OR #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ #
# (Skotrats Brew-Rat-Chat Homebrew Chat System) #
# "Get off your dead ass and brew" #
####################################################
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:40:41 -0400
From: pfeine@osf1.gmu.edu (Paul Feine)
Subject: HOPS
I am going through a very hoppy stage at present. I've been criticized by
some for not demonstrating an appreciation for balance, maltiness,
nuttiness, etc., but I've yet to be convinced that the amount of hops I use
is not directly proportional to the happiness of my palate. I've brewed a
wide variety of beers, and certainly have enjoyed the high gravity, black,
complex, beers -- in which the malt and hops battle virulently battle for
supremacy -- are the best. But because I don't have the money or the
patience to brew only that type of brew, I find myself always returning to
IPAish brews.
Like another brewer who posted recently, I brewed a couple of IPA-like
beers beers with WYeast 1056 and 1272, both of which were "extravagently
hopped." Personally, I thought that the fruitiness of the 1272 (while nice)
interfered with the hoppiness. In fact, the cleaner 1056 version turned out
to be very, very similar to "Hop Pocket," a Dominion Brewery brew that
those in the D.C. area will recognize.
In any case, I'd like to ask anyone who'd care to to post the recipes of
the bitterest and/or hoppiest brew they've brewed without crossing the line
to peppery unpleasantness (please include recipes for those with dubious
unpleasantness).
As an aside, since hops and marijuana are so closely related, it seems to
me that pot could be used effectively in place of hops -- maybe some
really skunky pot for aroma? While the cost of black market brewing
ingredients makes brewing with pot prohibitive, I'm wondering if anyone has
had any success brewing with pot in place of or in conjunction with hops?
Thank you kindly,
Paul
pfeine@gmu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 May 96 20:37:16
From: rq%mailhost@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Brewers in Linkoeping, Sweden
Hi
Any brewers in Linkoeping, Sweden reading this?
Since I don't know any brewers here I would like to
get in touch with a couple.
Please drop me an e-mail if interested.
Erik Ronnqvist, rq@lysator.liu.se
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 10:26:26 -0500
From: lheavner@tcmail.frco.com
Subject: wort cooling
Jim Anderson asked how to cool his wort in his new 10gal ss pot.
First let me say I am envious. I use a 9gal enamel pot which won't
fit in my sink either. I use a galvanized washtub for my "sink".
Thanx Rob! HBD has done more to increase my joy of homebrewing than
anything except maybe liquid yeasts.
chillin n brewin, brewin n chillin
Lou
<lheavner@frmail.frco.com>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 11:11:35 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jack Schmidling <arf@maxx.mc.net>
Subject: Stuck Sparge
>From: Marty Tippin <martyt@sky.net>
Subject: Grain Mills
>Just wanted to add the Valley Mill to the list of available grain mills -
it's a new dual-roller, adjustable mill somewhat similar to the JSP
MaltMill....
Promoting your favorite product is fair game but when words like
"similar to the JSP MaltMill" are used, I reserve the right to point
out differences.
The rollers on the Valley mill are considerably smaller, they are
made from hollow tubes instead of solid stock and it uses plastic
bearings instead of oil impregnated bronze.
>I can get around 4 or 5 lbs. of grain in it at once, so it's not
as much of a chore as other mills.
Just what makes stopping to fill a 3 pound hopper such a chore? And
anyone can put a hole in a 5 gal bucket and set on top of MM to make
a 25 lb hopper. Try putting one on the very top heavy VM. We also offer
a Large Hopper Adapter to make it even easier.
>From: "Decker, Robin E." <robind@rmtgvl.rmtinc.com>
>It appears to me that we have a reasonable compromise to the ownership of
the HBD on the table.
That's very kind of you but I suggest there are lots of folks out there
who would feel the same way of me and grain mill discussions
as the AHA in general. However, I made the offer in good faith and
with the understanding that the moderation of the Digest would be as
back burner as it has been with Rob.
The best part of the Digest is that it is self-policing. If anyone had ANY
influence on the beer related content it would lose its value significantly
and just fade away.
My concern with the AHA is not that they will TRY to control it but
that it will just happen for reasons already mentioned. Some folks are
just too nice to criticise when they know the subject is listening. And
since the AHA is NOT a one issue issue, it could have wide ranging
impact.
I made to offer only to put my money where my mouth is. I have no
idea what is involved and have no interest or ability to do it but I will
pay whatever reasonable costs are involved. However, I guess if
there is interest, I should get some idea of what that may be.
On the other hand, if Rob is ready to jump ship and AHA has the
life ring in hand, we are probably best off to go with the flow and persue
this as an alternative. We need to know Rob's urgency.
***********************
Visit our Web page for product flyers and applications information.
http://dezines.com/@your.service/jsp/
js
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 11:15:36 -0500
From: uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Subject: Re: Iodophor
Simonzip@aol.com asked about Iodophor:
> 1) What is the correct concentration? I've read anywhere from one half to 2
> oz. per 5 gallons.
For sanitizing equipment and bottles, the concentration I've seen mentioned
most often is 12.5ppm titratable iodine. For the strength of Iodophor that
everyone seems to be selling, this works out to 1/2 oz (1 tbsp) of Iodophor
per 5 gallons of water.
> 2) While it claims no-rinse, does the piece of equipment *need* to air dry?
> In the case of pulling a SS spoon from the solution to stir cool wort, can I
> just shake off the excess? Or in kegging, can I just pour out the solution
> and syphon my beer right in without turning it upside down and waiting for it
> to dry?
I've kind of wondered about this myself. I *think* the reason for the "air
dry" recommendation is to allow all of the iodine to evaporate. The compromise
I've reached, and the reasoning behind it is as follows:
o I rinse my bottles. I figure the surface-to-volume ratio is fairly low, so
the relative concentration of any iodine remaining in the bottles would
be fairly high relative to the volume of beer.
o I don't bother rinsing fermenters or miscellaneous equipment (e.g. racking
hoses). I drain my fermenters well, but don't wait for them to air dry. I
figure that the few drops of remaining solution are so minuscule compared
to the volume of an entire batch, it shouldn't matter. I haven't detected
any strange off-flavors.
> 3) I've read it will keep in solution for extended periods of time. Those
> references were in closed containers like kegs. What about a 1 gallon glass
> jug, will light affect it's viability?
I think "closed containers" is the key phrase here. It dissipates fairly
quickly in *open* containers. After a day or two, the solution turns clear,
indicating that most of the iodine is gone. I have no idea whether light
speeds this up.
> Any other tips or suggestions on usage certainly appreciated.
In general, I'm satisfied with Iodophor. It seems to get the job done, and
doesn't dry your hands out like bleach does. Only drawback seems to be that it
stains certain plastics (e.g. racking hoses) -- but as long as my hoses are
*sanitary*, I don't particularly care what they *look* like. (I'm puzzled by
those people who replace their hoses every few batches; I've been using the
same set of hoses for 17 batches so far, and see no reason why they shouldn't
last another 50...)
- -- Mike Uchima
- -- uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 96 09:31:57 PDT
From: James Gallagher <jimg@dcz.cvo.oneworld.com>
Subject: Re: Flaked Barley
>"Jim" == Jim Busch <busch@eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:
> Jack notes about the stuck Guinness clone in a EM:
> <<The recipe was:
> <<6-lbs DWC Pils Malt
> <<2-lbs flaked barley
> <<1-lb Roasted Barley
> <<Any ideas, or is this typical of flaked barley?
> <You took the words of of my fingers. I have never had a stuck sparge AND
> <I have never used flaked barley. For what it is worth, I have used flaked
> <corn with no problems. This is not double blind science but the finger
> <points that way.
> Having just brewed two pilot batches of a "Guinness clone", each
> consisting of 25% flaked barley, 10% Roasted Barley and the balance
> Briess 2 row, I feel I can report some actual experience here (and
> I think I already did!). Briefly, the first mash was 40/50/60/70C
> and the second 60/70. Both lautered very well. I use a SS perf
> sheet false bottom in my 1 BBL pilot brewery. There is significantly
> more open area (versus an EM) in a perf sheet screen. Perhaps this could
> be a factor? Certainly the size of the malt crush is a factor but I
> was horrified to see how finely the Briess malt was crushed when
> my co-brewer for this batch brought it over and it still went smoothly.
> Prehaps using a EM with adjuncts or 70% weizens is not so great an
> idea?
FWIW, I have brewed a `Guinness clone' using the above recipe, a single step
mash and the EM. Worked OK for me. I generally don't spend a whole lot of
time waiting for things to settle, etc., so while Jack might have a good idea
about waiting 30 min before sparging, I didn't and things went just fine.
- --
__________________________________________________________________________
James Gallagher The Distributed Oceanographic Data System
jgallagher@gso.uri.edu http://dods.gso.uri.edu/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 08:58:56 -0400
From: TMCASTLE@pwinet.upj.com
Subject: Cream Ale
Lawnmower season is upon us!
Can anyone provide me with information on cream ales? I have tried
to take a stab at them from the little material I have been able to
get. The style guide lists them as light body, very pale color,
creamy head. As I figure, the very pale color limits the malt
selection to pale malt or carapils only. I use 2-row exclusively,
do I need to switch to 6-row to bump up the protein content (for
head)? Is carapils used to up the protein even if it would increase
body? Rice? Corn? I have also heard (but I don't remember where)
adding lactose (aka milk sugar - is that where the term "cream ale"
comes from?). I know the HBD has been light on recipes, but I'd
appreciate the help.
On a side thread, but related. I made an Americanish lager with an
amazingly rich head that retains for ever and ever (AMEN). It was 6
lb 2-row domestic, 2 lb rice solids, 1/2 lb Munich (10L). Did a 20
min protein rest at 122 degrees, sacchrification at 150 let cool to
145 then reheat for 2 hours. Used Yeast Labs St. Louis Lager L34
yeast. My question - Why the great head? 2-row malt isn't high in
protein, I did a rest, and rice (according to Miller's book) has
virtually no protein.
By the way, this is a wonderful yeast. It flocculates slowly but
once it hits the bottom of the bottle, it doesn't move. You can
decant the beer into a glass as fast as you want and completely
invert the bottle without any buggers reaching the glass.
Well, that's probably more bandwidth than I'm entitled to. P.S.
Thanks to Rob and anyone willing to keep this wonderful resource
alive.
Tom Castle - Zn of Homebrewing
http://www.netcom.com/~tmcastle/
------------------------------
Date: 9 May 1996 09:43:51 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Oven Cleaner on Stainless/ Passivation
Keith Royster asked if foaming Oven Cleaner (ie. Easy Off(tm)) could be used
for passivating Stainless Steel.
The answer is a big 'NO'. The active ingredient in most foaming oven cleaners
in aerosol cans is Sodium Hydroxide, a strong caustic. It is not Nitric Acid.
Stainless steel is quite resistant to NaOH, but aluminum is not. Oven cleaner
is the easiest way to dissolve burned-on crud from steel cookware. It works
well on aluminum cookware too, you just need to be vigilent while using it and
rinse as soon as the crud is loosened.
**
Passivation of Stainless steel pops up here from time to time. Here is some
more data.
Passivation is somewhat of a misnomer for what is actually an acid cleaning of
the stainless steel surface. The acid (commonly nitric) eats away any free iron
atoms that are on the surface due to machining or scratching with ordinary
steel tools. Stainless steel is protected by a surface covering of chromium and
nickel oxides which fully develop on their own within two weeks. The reason
stainless steel is Passivated is that any free iron imbedded on the surface
serves as a rust initiation site that breaches the oxide layer and causes
general rusting of the stainless steel at that site. The acid cleaning removes
any contaminants and allows the chromium and nickel oxides to reform without
hinderance. Nitric Acid is also an Oxidizing acid and rebuilds the oxide layer
faster than would happen in the air, but does not do it any better than
exposure to air does.
A couple weeks ago, I decided to test what I had been taught and conducted some
experiments. I took a piece of 304 stainless steel plate and immersed it in a
Copper Sulfate solution. This is a Test from the Passivation Spec., Federal
Standard QQ-P-35. Any exposed iron becomes plated with copper when immersed.
(but only a very thin layer, not useful for true copper plating)
My steel sample did not show any copper deposits, ie. it was passivated.
I then put an ordinary soft steel nail in my drill and bore down hard on the
stainless plate. I did this for about a minute or so and could tell that I had
smeared some steel onto the stainless. Immersion in the solution quickly showed
copper plating out onto that area.
I then used a common cleanser for stainless steel from the grocery store,
Revereware Stainless and Copper Cleanser, and scoured the plate for a short
time to make it shiny. I rinsed it off and immediately re-immersed it in the
copper sulfate solution. This time there was no copper plating. The free-iron
had been removed and the steel would re-oxidize in time.
What this means to you the homebrewer is that you can perform cutting,
grinding, welding, brazing or whatever on your stainless steel and be assured
that you can clean and passivate it to prevent future corrosion. The type of
cleanser to use are ones that say they are for cleaning and brightening
stainless steel and copper. These cleansers typically contain oxalic acid or
somesuch acid that preferentially removes iron oxide. Be sure to rinse
thoroughly in clean water after use, so you dont leave any acid behind. Let the
steel sit in the house for a couple weeks to protect it from contaminants (ex.
pigeon droppings, seaside air) and the oxides will reform and the steel will be
good as new.
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy
www.primenet.com/~johnj/
johnj@primenet.com
Huntington Beach, CA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 13:07:34 EDT
From: "FINLEY, BARRY CURTIS" <BFINLEY@MUSIC.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject: All grain vs. Partial extract
Hello to all,
I'm curious to try an all grain batch, however, I don't believe that I
have sufficient funds at the moment to venture into this type of brewing
I thought that maybe some people could give me some good advise about
ways to gradually build up to a full all grain brew. So far, all I have
brewed is from extract, and all of them have turned out fine, but I
feel that I would get much better results from going all grain. If not,
I was thinking about doing a few partial extract brews first (just to
get my feet wet).
Are there any easy ways to brew all grain with out having to buy all
of the equipment? Or better yet, what is the minimum amount of
equipment that I could still brew an all grain with?
All help is greatly appreciated!
Barry C. Finley
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 13:25:49 -0400
From: Brian Gardner <bgardner@hublink.com>
Subject: Are stale grains a possibility?
I recently had 10 lbs of malt milled at my local homebrew shop for
a sweet stout that I am preparing to make. Due to circumstances beyond
my control, I haven't been able to brew this batch for a few weeks.
The grain is already milled, sitting in a large paper sack on top of
my kitchen cabinet.
Is there any possibility that anything can go wrong (such as lower
extraction) from the malt sitting unfulfilled in this state as it
loses "freshness"? Should I freeze or refrigerate it? Should I stop
worrying?
- --
Brian W. Gardner "Captain, I protest; I am not a
Hublink Inc. merry man!" - Lt. Worf
bgardner@hublink.com (office) bgardner@infinet.com (home)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 09:42:33 -0800
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb@leland.stanford.edu>
Subject: mills
David C. Harsh writes about grain mills:
> . . . if the rollers aren't parallel, all bets are off.
> A well designed mill shouldn't have this problem.
[snip]
> Jack also said:
> >If the rollers are sufficiently long, they can be skewed to provide
> >non-linear spacing from one end to the other without damaging
> >the bearings....MM rollers are 3" longer than the
> >Valley Mill and two or three TIMES longer then the rest of the ones
> >you mentioned and does NOT use plastic bearings
>
> Thus, the longer rollers of the MM would be more likely to be skewed.
> Reason enough to buy a different mill. And anyway, who uses plastic
> bearings?
Just in case Jack is sleeping: The MM is designed to have skewed rollers.
While this seems at first to be a strange way to design a mill, quantitative
tests and very many satisfied customers have shown it to be effective. The
Glatt mill used plastic bearings which a number of people have reported ruining
when grinding hard grains like wheat.
> REMEMBER MY MAIN POINT:
> "...all will give equivalent quality crushes - just decide which one you
> like the best. Our local club members have all varieties and I've only
> heard complaints about the Corona."
Agreed. I have also heard complaints about the PhilMill with regard to
cranking effort and with the Glatt bearings. I have a little mill FAQ
that I send around when I see people ask about mills. It can be had at
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb/beerstuff/millfaq.txt. It
is somewhat hurriedly written but if there is enough interest I can
spiff it up a bit.
- --
Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb@leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 96 17:10:00 UT
From: "Don Van Valkenburg" <DONVANV@msn.com>
Subject: Hop Oxidation cont.
Referring to the FAQ on Hop Oxidation in HBD 2302 Andrew Walsh writes:
I am not sure where this information comes from. Is it correct?
I can't say where it comes from, however I will say that the FAQ is consistent
with the literature put out by HOPUNION and with what Gail Nickerson and
others in the trade have told me. ( G. Nickerson is the Chemist at the USDA
program that worked with Al Haunold)
The booklet "HOP VARIETY CHARACTERISTICS" put out by HOPUNION says the
following:
Beta Acids: "Some of the oxidation products (of beta acids) do provide
bitterness-------
Storageability:------"Interestingly, some oxidation of essential oil
components is necessary to produce compounds thought to be important in beer
flavors so controlled aging is important for hops required for both bittering
and aromatic properties."
Oxidation of hops is quite a misunderstood phenomena; and something I don't
completly understand myself. However, I have heard (from Ralph Olson,
HOPUNION) that AB prefers older hops because they are not as harsh. This is
also consistent with what G. Nickerson has said to me; that aroma hops
REQUIRE a certain amount of oxidation to reduce certain unpleasant compounds.
She referred to the reduction of Mercene as an example of one compound reduced
by oxidation. She went on to say that this is why certain high alpha hops (I
think she specifically mentioned Cluster) do not make good aroma hops. The
very thing that gives some hops good storageability, prevents oxidation and
thus they do not make very good aroma hops.
Bottom line is that a certain amount of oxidiation is necessary for aroma hops
(and bittering as well) The big question is how much is enough. That is a
tough one to answer.
Don Van Valkenburg
DONVANV@msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 May 96 11:23:00 PDT
From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461@eroerm1.ecy.wa.gov>
Subject: Here's rye in yereye
I've had a few private e-mails regarding brewing with rye lately, so maybe
there's some interest out there. Here's what I've been doing, completely
empirically, and unadulterated by any book-learning:
1. I use malted rye grain for about 15% of the total grain bill in a
standardish IPA recipe. Less, and you wonder why you messed with it,? At
20%, the rye character totally dominates the beer, and I don't like it as
well.
2. I use malted rye grain rather than flaked rye. The flaked stuff set up
like jello in my zapap lauter tun, and generated more rye character per
pound than grain. I feel more control with grain. The grain is sticky,
though, so I changed my lautering system.
3. I use a step mash, 122F-148F-158F. I don't filter.
I get a beer with a fascinating astringency, that generally tastes more like
beer than weizen. It's bitter, refreshing, and just the kind of ale I like
for lawnmowing.
I'd be interested in public critiques, suggestions, or experiences with Rye
brewing. I'd also like to make this beer better. Any suggestions? Flames
from the Save the Rye Federation, Rye Unlimited, or BOBS (the Barley-Only
Beer Society) are also welcome, but they have to be public.
Guy Gregory (GuyG4@aol.com)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 14:31:27 EDT
From: usbscrhc@ibmmail.com
Subject: RE: Kits + Lots O' Questions
James,
Kits can be found at almost every homebrew supply store...most here (I would
guess) would recommend getting a separate glass carboy, as you likely will
want one soon. You might even get a list of necessary equipment and buy
separately - might be cheaper. Let the group know where you live and you'll
get lots of suggestions for places to buy stuff...Have fun!
Ok, I'll keep these short and sweet (private or public e-mail is appreciated):
Ken (or whoever),
Haven't checked out your web sites, but for fridge temp control, any problem
with just wiring in a better thermostat than the one the fridge came with? I've
got a fridge(about 20-30 yrs old) I tap out of. I keep the keg and CO2 tank
in there, but would like to lager in there also...any comments?
Starters: Generally how much (volume) should a starter be? Should it all be
added to the fermenter? Does it need to be added at peak krausen? I'd like
to keep a starter for several batches. Adding at peak would be impossible
for all but one batch....
Ferment: Rather than making up a starter, is there anything wrong with dumping
a new wort onto the sediments of a recently racked fermenter. After all, that's
what the starter is, right? If so, how much swirling would be recommended?
Thanks for all help...and thanks to Rob from here as well!
Howard Smith - Fells Point, MD
usbscrhc@ibmmail.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 May 1996 11:26:48 -0700
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz@hoptech.com>
Subject: Honey Malt and Gambrinus
Bruce DeBolt writes:
>Honey malt is a 20-25 Lovibond
>crystal malt that has some honey-type flavor.
Although honey malt does contain some sugars, it still has enzymatic power
and a significant amount of starch. It is not a crystal malt and needs to
be mashed.
Later, someone asked about Gambrinus and their quality. Gambrinus is a
relatively small maltser located in Armstrong BC. Their two-row is some of the
finest in the world, and the honey malt is a unique product as far as I
know. They also produce a "light" Munich at 15L and a "dark" Munich at 30L.
The honey malt is around 18L and will give your beer a reddish/orangish cast
(not unlike a crystal of the same color).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 96 18:36:27 UT
From: "Jim Wasielewski" <Wasso@msn.com>
Subject: Holes in false bottom
I am planing to make a Lauter-tun from a s.s. old keg.
Would like to know if 1/8 inch s.s. plate fitted just before curved bottom
will work?
And what size holes, how many holes per inch?
email would be great. tanks (Thanks) aHEAD
Jim
wasso@msn.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 96 12:31 PDT
From: Woody Weaver <woody@altair.stmarys-ca.edu>
Subject: Question on beer glasses
Greetings, fellow brewers!
My question is fairly simple: what are the "traditional"
glasses/steins/mugs etc for drinking the various styles of beer? In
particular, what are the pint glasses in a mug shape with dimples
called/used for?
I searched the Brewery for a glass FAQ but didn't find anything on
that subject. (Some interesting reading, though. Liked the article
on Medieval brewing.) Can anyone point me in the right direction?
- --woody
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:04:02 -0400
From: Simonzip@aol.com
Subject: Iodophors
Regarding Iodophor, I said in HBD 2032:
"I did a search on the HBD but didn't find answers to all my Q's..."
Well it turns out if I had been spelling it correctly the first time, I would
have found the 50 postings for Iodophor in '95 rather than the 3 on Idophor.
The consensus is to use anywhere from 12.5 to 25ppm, most going for 15ppm.
The most common dilution to get to 12.5ppm is 1/2 oz per 5 gallons. Use
closer to an ounce for really suspect items. I'm gonna use 9cc for now,
12cc=1oz.
I seems Iodophors come in different concentrations depending on who's name is
on the bottle. That being the case, it's difficult to make any general
dilution statement, at least for those who are looking for accuracy. Iodine
test strips are available in that range. When I get my hands on some I'll
test the BTF brand I'm using and post the resulting dilution rates (if anyone
else cares).
Drip dry is fine (shake off excess), meaning no puddles or major
accumulations. No need to wait for dry dry.
Everyone also agrees that it will keep for some time (weeks--months) in a
closed container. Note the initial color of the diluted solution, and add a
few drops more if the color lightens over time.
Thanks to all those who replied privately,
Darrin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:15:45 -0400
From: RMoline930@aol.com
Subject: Commencement of Boil Hopping/Clarity/Iodophor Concentration
Dan <bbh@execpc.com> asks about hopping at commencement of boil influencing
clarity. This is a "non-issue," at least for me. I do pre-boil hopping, ala
George Fix, COB hopping, 70/60, 30/60, End of Boil, End of Whirlpool, and Dry
hopping, with no consideration for clarity. Maybe there is some tech data to
the contrary, but my results are good.
Not using a filter, as in my homebrew set-up, the clarity issue for me comes
down to "tincture of time" in the secondary and finings. Previously using
only gelatin, I was turned on to a Gusmer product called "Dry-Fine" and
"Cryo-Fine." Both are pre-hydrolized isinglass, the Cryo-Fine is intended for
the brewing industry and the Dry-Fine is intended for the wine industry. Russ
Levitt of the Bloomington Brewing Co. in Indiana deserves the kudos for this.
His method of preparation is different from the manufacturer's advice in that
he adds an extra blending step.Gusmer recommends adding the product to 60 F
or colder water and whipping it in a blender for 2 minutes, then place in a
cold room or fridge for 20 min, then 2 min. blending, and add to secondary.
I use four teaspoons Dry-fine to half a gallon cold H2O, blend for 2, then 20
cold room, blend for 2, 20 more cold room, blend for 2, 20 more cold, then
add 6 table spoons gealtin for the last blend. Once the beer starts flowing
into secondary, I add the mix, seal the spin-side, and turn the pump on to
aid in mixing.
When the beer is ready for serving tank, I repeat the process, with no
gelatin. 48 hours later, brilliant beer. I've heard customers arguing with
the bartender when he states we have no filter, the beer is that bright!
Again, while the D-F is intended for the winery, I have tried both, and I
prefer the D-F, despite it's higher cost. I call it"Filter in a Can", though
it comes in a bag, and you can get it from Gusmer at (908)-272-9400, ask for
Cathy McGinnity. $ 38 US for a lb of Cryo and $ 72 US for D-F. Gusmer is
happy to sell it to homebrewers. The gelatin may be redundant, but what the
hey, it's cheap! (No affiliation- Happy customer only) This stuff
outperforms any other fining I have used, including other isinglass prep's.
<Simonzip@aol.com> asks about Iodophor concentrations. Sani-Kleen from Texo
(1.6 % active Iodine) provides 25 ppm with 1 oz per 5 gallons (US) for a 5
minute kill time. No-rinse, just drain. Test kit K-730 provides
quantification of concentration. Sani-Kleen is a low foamer, suitable for
CIP, but I have been having an occasional problem with precipitation. and am
going to begin a trial with Thrash, a 1.75 % Iodine prep. As far as questions
regarding color vs. performance, the Thrash sheet states " The color of a
Thrash solution is proportional to the titratable iodine concentration."
For the purpose of economy, I use a 10 or 12 ppm solution and just run the
CIP longer on the cold side in preparation for a brew 25 ppm- kill time 5
minutes, 12 ppm -10 minutes, and I run it for 20/60 the night before and
20/60 prior to mash-in. Weymouth Stipp of TEXO says he will sell to
homebrewers, but I don't know what the costs will be for product or test kits
to homebrewers. When I receive that info I will pass it on. It's got to be
cheaper than H-B shops. Sani-kleen goes for $ 14.28 US per gallon to
commercial breweries, a significant savings over what I used to pay at H-B
shops. Check with your local brewery, maybe they will sell you some! TEXO
(800)-998-TEXO. (Standard Disclaimer-No Affiliation-Happy Customer Only.)
Any other brewers out there with potential solutions to the precipitation
prob's? Kinney, are you home?
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 16:49:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: Robert Paolino <rpaolino@execpc.com>
Subject: Does size matter?
I have a beer that was bottled in 12 ounce, 1/2 litre, and 22 ounce bottles.
All the bottles were sanitised in the same dishwasher run. I used the same
kind of caps for all of them, all of them boiled for sanitation purposes. (I
know, I know, there are people out there who don't believe in boiling for fear
of ruining the seal, but I've never had any problems (maybe).) The beer was
primed, in the usual fashion, by putting the corn sugar in the bottling bucket
and racking the beer onto it. The bottles were filled in no particular order
(i.e., I didn't do all of one size first, then all of the next....)
Here's the problem. It's a fantastic beer, imnsho, if I pour it from a 1/2
litre or 22 ounce bottle, but every _12_ ounce bottle I've opened so far has
been just about uncarbonated even though the 1/2 litre and 22 ounce bottles
opened have been just fine, with appropriate carbonation and an absolutely
beautiful head.
Any ideas/explanations/suggestions? None of the usual variables for poor
carbonation appear to apply. It's not likely to be the seal on the caps,
because they're all the same caps, treated the same way. It's not likely to
be uneven priming, because the sugar was well-mixed, and the bottles were
filled in random order.
I'd like to be able to enjoy the entire batch (the uncarbonated stuff is great
for cooking, but I'd rather drink/serve it), and maybe even enter a couple in
competition (but not all competitions accept 1/2 litre bottles).
And aside from seeking an explanation for the problem, I'd also like to know
what to do to be able to use the 12-ounce bottles for something other than
cooking. I've heard of uncapping the bottles, adding a touch of yeast, and
recapping, but the "veterans" in our club never heard of that being done
successfully. It may well make it carbonated and drinkable, they say, but it
isn't likely to yield great beer. With all the beer we have available to
drink, merely drinkable may not be worth the effort.
Comments?
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino
Madison rpaolino@earth.execpc.com
You may now go back to your regularly-scheduled beer
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 17:08:40 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock@oeonline.com>
Subject: Calculating efficiency: before or after the boil?!?
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
Traditionally, extraction efficiency is a measure of *all* extracted
from the grains.
Not a major point here, but when you measure the efficiency
post-boil, it's not quite as simple as a smaller volume of
higher-gravity wort. You lose the contribution of the proteins
precipitated as hot break. Also (and, yes, this is pretty obvious),
this method of measurement would be further perturbed when brewing
with kettle-added adjuncts (honey, maple syrup, etc) and/or extract
"kickers"
See ya!
Pat Babcock in Canton, MI
pbabcock@oeonline.com
http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/brew.html
(C) Copyright 1984 by Bob Grabhorn with air support from Russell Mast
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2033, 05/10/96
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