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HOMEBREW Digest #2053
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/05/29 PDT
Homebrew Digest Wednesday, 29 May 1996 Number 2053
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
London pub request (DEBOLT BRUCE)
Transfering between Kegs (jltaylor@ix.netcom.com (John Taylor))
Pneumatic fittings for CO2? (Marty Tippin)
scotland ("Dulisse, Brian")
Beer Police (h.smith@e-mail.com)
re: Email problems (Chris Jeffries)
Recipes /2.5 gals (Pete Farrow)
Extraction (Bill Giffin)
RE:"Stuck" fermentations & Cajun Cooker (George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro))
Freezing yeast (Meyer@msscc.med.utah.edu (Larry Meyer))
lager storage (rmoucka@omn.com (Ronald Moucka))
no head retention (Shelby)
Others problems / Stove output (Simonzip@aol.com)
Update (shawn@aob.org (Shawn Steele))
Crabtree effect (korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas))
Feb's Mead Still Green! (Douglas Thomas)
1.25 lb CO2 Tank (JEFFREY.T.ANDERSON@x400gw.ameritech.com)
Micro sewage requirements; Dublin's first brewpub (Ulick Stafford)
Re: Hose length (jay@ro.com (Jay Reeves))
flow rates in chillers (Gregory King)
Re: Pub etiquette (bobcapl@rpnet.net (Bob Caplan))
Re: Pump Question for RIMS Gurus (hollen@vigra.com)
rye/CP fillers/hammer mills (korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas))
Yeast Mixtures (Chris Strickland)
Thanks (Gord Reid)
Iodophor precipitate/white deposit in carboy (Richard Gardner)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: DEBOLT BRUCE <bdebolt@dow.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 96 08:15:38 -0400
Subject: London pub request
Need London pub recommendations by Friday. Private e-mail, please.
TIA,
Bruce DeBolt
bdebolt@dow.com.
------------------------------
From: jltaylor@ix.netcom.com (John Taylor)
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 13:12:10 GMT
Subject: Transfering between Kegs
What is the best way to transfer beer out of a one keg into another.
The beer is under light pressure (5-10 psi)
------------------------------
From: Marty Tippin <martyt@sky.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 09:15:48 -0500
Subject: Pneumatic fittings for CO2?
Has anyone used the quick-disconnect type fittings designed for air
compressors, etc. in a CO2 kegging system? My plan is to use one of those
fittings between the regulator and my beer fridge (the gas lines in it are
going to be permanently connected to a "distributor" for running multiple
kegs off the same tank) - this will allow me to disconnect the tank and move
it someplace else for force carbonating, purging, etc. - right now, the tank
is in my fridge with the kegs and takes up way too much space (a 20lb
cylinder)...
My only real concerns are that a.) the fittings may not be 100% airtight and
could leak, wasting CO2 and generally being unsafe and b.) there might be
grease or other stuff in the fittings that I don't want in my beer. Are
either of these problems I should worry about?
- -Marty
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Marty Tippin | Tippin's Law #24: Never underestimate the
martyt@sky.net | power of human stupidity.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Check out my 2-Tier Converted Keg Brewing System Design Plans
and other homebrew gadgets at http://www.sky.net/~martyt
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Dulisse, Brian" <bbd4@CIPCOD1.EM.CDC.GOV>
Date: Tue, 28 May 96 10:15:00 EST
Subject: scotland
a while back i requested some info on breweries/distilleries in scotland.
most of the mail i received requested that i re-post what i found out;
rather than send 30 separate pieces of email, i'll do it here, and try to
keep it short. unfortunately, i managed to lose the lists of pubs in
glasgow and edinburgh folks sent. the other piece of information that i
received was about the edradour distillery; several people wrote that this
was the best tour they had taken. unfortunately, we didn't go near there,
so i didn't get to take this tour.
the state of beer in scotland, or at least the parts i was in (we spent
virtually all our time in the highlands, mostly on the islands skye and
orkney) was disappointing. to be fair, this is whiskey country, not beer
country ( a fact lamented by a number of the people we met). a couple of
(possibly) related observations:
1. at least 85% of the pints i saw poured were tennant's lager. this
wasn't simply a case of going to tennant's pubs (tennant's pubs also serve
their /70 and /80, as well as beers by other brewers); folks just weren't
drinking ales. when folks ordered a bottled beer, it was (shudder) bud.
2. when i found cask conditioned ales, they are often past their prime. we
had a large number of beers that were literally sour on our tour; one could
have been a (very bad) lambic. when i would ask the bartender about it, i
got the same answers every time:
a) the bartender could not tell me if it was off, because he was a
lager drinker, and had never tasted the hand-pulled pints
b) the cask had not been changed for "a long time"; i couldn't ever
get
a good description of how long this was, but always at least a
week
it's a small sample (i've also managed to lose the notebook with my notes,
but i'd guess i found a half dozen bars with cask conditioned ales), mostly
in out of the way places (although we had sour beer during the few hours we
were in glascow as well), but it's still disappointing.
on the bright side, i did tast some *great* stuff. i had a cask conditioned
bateman's xb that was just great. (i found this in an improbable spot, the
central hotel in thurso, which is a tiny place that runs a ferry to orkney).
we took a tour of the orkney island brewery (it's mentioned in michael
jackson's book); good, but short, and you only get one pint. the pint was
of a new beer "red macgregor." the owner said he wanted to produce a
reddish beer that used up some cascade hops he had laying around. he got
what he wanted: this is a terrific beer. gives the bateman's a run for best
beer i had during the trip. (it's disappointing that the best beers i had
on this trip were not scotch-style ales . . .) i had a bottled beer from
tennant's called "robert burns" that was very good. i also managed to taste
the draft old peculier (yum!).
if anyone happens to be near the university of glasgow, check out the aragon
pub (particularly on a sunday night . . .)
bd
------------------------------
From: h.smith@e-mail.com
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:25:11 EDT
Subject: Beer Police
All this talk about pub etiquette and weights and measures folks reminded me
of a good story. A few years ago at the Oktoberfest, a friend and I were
sitting outside one of the tents. We were at a long table enjoying the company
of a German group. I don't speak anything but drunk German, but my buddy does.
When the bierfrau brings our round of litres, mine doesn't have a head on it.
We're already a litre or two into the day, so it doesn't matter to me. Well,
the old Bavarian woman in the group grabs the mug and starts yelling something
at the beirfrau. Translation was to get us a real litre with a real head. I
kinda thought it was a waste of good beer, but they would have it no other
way. The old woman even insisted on giving me her 'good' litre while the
waitress happily went back for the replacement! Now that's beer police for ya.
The moral here is to get your a** to Munich for Oktoberfest if you haven't
yet.
Howard
------------------------------
From: Chris Jeffries <jeffries@setelecom.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 09:06:30 -0500
Subject: re: Email problems
>I have know received ~20 copies of HBD 2044. I have tried every thing =
I can
>think of to get this to stop, including unsubscribing and they are =
still=20
>coming.
>Are any other subscribers having this kind of problem? These extra =
copies >are coming in on my business email and creating a lot of =
problems and=20
>frustrations.
This is probably your email reader. The last beta of Eudora didn't =
always delete messages from the mailhost. It looks like you are using =
EMC, which, as I remember it, is kind of flaky. =20
>If this is the best AOB can do, I cast my vote for someone who knows =
what=20
>there doing to take over the digest.
>Sorry if I sound like I'm upset, but I am.
Ease up they're. =20
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
- ----------------------------------------
Chris Jeffries =
=20
Manager of Information Systems =20
jeffries@setelecom.com =
Nashville, TN
Southeastern Telecom, Inc. =
jeffries@accessus.net
http://www.setelecom.com/ =
http://www.accessus.net/~jeffries =20
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=
------------------------------
From: Pete Farrow <pfarrow@unix.sri.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 08:21:11 -0700
Subject: Recipes /2.5 gals
To make 2.5 gals, can you just halve a recipe or is there a formula/
Tks
Pete-
*****
If things don't change, they will stay as they are.
Pete Farrow *****
Pfarrow@unix.sri.com
------------------------------
From: Bill Giffin <billg@maine.com>
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 22:45:50 -0500
Subject: Extraction
Good morning,
Steve Stroud made a good point, you don't want the very last 10% of
extract, but 10% of additional extract say from 30 PPG to 33 PPG
WILL improve your beer.
Jack Schmidling says:
>One can change the yield that much just by using a different malt
or any number of variable changes.
Golly Jack I have used just about every base malt that is available on the
homebrew market and I have always gotten 31 PPG or a touch more. I must be
doing something wrong not to be getting only 28 PPG.
Jack you didn't respond to my comment about whole corns passing
through your fixed mill. Does it happen?
Someone asked for the equation from PPG to % of extraction. Divide
PPG by 0.46 that will take you to % of extraction +- .
With the range of extraction running between 65% and 84% of the
grain; I have been very happy with the beers that have been in the
70-72% of the grain being extracted into the wort.
The only thing that Jack KNOWS about humor is stated below, his
signature. Got to get in a bit of advertising don't ya know! World's
Greatest Brewer?????
> ***********************
>isit our Web page for product flyers, applications info and other
> http://dezines.com/@your.service/jsp/
There is a bit more to brewing then just the mill that is used to crush
the malt. All of the mills that are available on the homebrew market
can be used to brew world class beer. Maltmill, Phil's Mill, Corona and
what some ever will crush you malt in an adequate fashion with a little
care on the part of the brewer. Anyone who had the choice of having a
six roll mill with screens or a MM for the same money and took the
MM is stupid. This is not to say that a MM is inadequate for the
homebrewer all it means is that there are better mills out there if you
have the money.
Let's all concede that the MALTMILL is the best in the world even
though it has skewed roller's. Even though those rollers are less then
300 mm and that there are only two of them.. Perhaps we will never
have to hear from Jack about his skewed rollers again.
It might be even worth conceding that Jack is the world's greatest
brewer if he would stop defending the indefensible.
May you be in heaven an hour before the devil knows you are dead,
Bill Bill Giffin
61 Pleasant St.
Richmond, ME 04357
(207)-737-2015
All you need is a few good friends and plenty to drink because thirst is a
terrible thing!
------------------------------
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 11:31:46 -0700
Subject: RE:"Stuck" fermentations & Cajun Cooker
There have been a couple of postings from people wondering why their
fermentations are stuck. One posting says that after 18 days it is
stuck at 1.010. An earlier posting from Kathy says that her partial
mash stopped fermenting at 1.022 (or something like that) and she
suspects that her yeast froze in shipping.
The answer to both postings is the same: your fermentations are NOT
stuck! A final gravity of 1.010 is about as low as you can go if your
not brewing with large quantities of sugar (honey, maple syrup, etc.).
For Kathy, if your mash temperature was over 155, you can fully expect
a final gravity in that range. The fact that you added fresh yeast
and it didn't affect the gravity shows that it's done. Also, if your
yeast froze during shipping, you wouldn't have had ANY activity at
all. Dead yeast are dead-they don't ferment at all!
Stan posted a question about converting the Cajun Cooker to Natural
Gas. If you call the manufacturer, they'll tell you how. I called
and asked, but haven't done it yet and forgot the specifics, although
it only involved minor work (drilling one piece, I think). You will
lose many BTU's: it will only crank out about 50,000 btu's because of
the lower pressure of the NG. On the other hand, your kitchen stove
only puts out about 9,000 btu per burner, so your still going to boil
faster than your stove. If you need the phone #, your homebrew
supplier should have it (I lost it or I'd post it here). Let me know
how it goes!
------------------------------
From: Meyer@msscc.med.utah.edu (Larry Meyer)
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 10:29:24 -0700
Subject: Freezing yeast
A trick I've used for years in the lab is to make a block of styrofoam into
an insulated test tube rack to keep things from thawing in a frost-free
freezer. Just take a hunk that is thick enough (or stick a few together),
heat a bolt and melt it in. By choosing the right bolt and using the right
time, almost any size holes can be made. It keeps the tubes organized too.
With that in a box, I've not had problems with loss from repeated thaw
cycles. Also...
Geza T Szenes asks-
However: One of the reasons I got into HomeBrewing is to get away from all the
additives that may be found in commercial products. Therefore what I'd like to
know is how much glycerol in 5 US Gallons (19 Liters) of beer is acceptable
before:
1. Affects Taste?
2. Has a harmful (toxic) effect on people?
Glocerol is easily metabolized by people and yeast. There should be
essentially none left after the fermentation, and if there is, it is not
harmfull. The tast of glycerol is not bad- in fact adding a drop to diluted
lab ethyl-alcohol is a way to make smooth vodka (not that I've ever done
that).
Larry Meyer
------------------------------
From: rmoucka@omn.com (Ronald Moucka)
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:35:05 GMT
Subject: lager storage
Brewers,
Here's a nice problem: I think my production has out stripped my
consumption. I've got several kegs that I plan to fill with ales
and lagers, and my question concerns the lagers. I've developed
a system of cold fermentation and lagering for 1-2 months in my
two beer refrigerators, and was wondering, would it be harmful to
store the lagered kegs for a few weeks/months at basement
temperatures (65-68) after lagering?
Appreciate any thoughts.
.:.
:.:.
_|~~~~|
( | D | Ron Moucka, Brewmaster
\| B | DayBar Brewing, Ltd., Fort Collins, Colorado
`----' rmoucka@omn.com
------------------------------
From: Shelby <gjgibson@ioa.com>
Date: Mon, 27 May 1996 23:49:19 -0400
Subject: no head retention
I bottled what I guess is a cream ale about ten days ago (if using rye =
still adheres to the style guildlines?). First I will give the recipe =
then a question.
7# 2-row
(a pound of which was toasted for 10 min at 350 degrees)
1# wheat malt
1# rye malt
1/2 oz Cascade (60 min)(5.8%aa)
1/2 oz Liberty (30 min)(5.5%aa)
1/4 oz Cascade (5 min)(5.8%aa)
Wyeast 1056
I have made this recipe two times with good results. This third attempt =
I had zero head retention. In the middle of my boil a large water main =
busted up the road from my house. I had no water and no way of using my =
immersion chiller. The best I could do was to move my kettle to the =
kitchen sink and pack as much ice around it as possible. I use a three =
kettle system made of converted sankey kegs. I am glad I had a hand =
truck to move the thing but lifting it was no fun. Anyway, would this =
long period for cooling have an affect on the head retention of the =
finished product? The cooling of the wort was the only thing different =
from the two times before. The beer also tasted higher in ester content =
probably because of a higher initial fermentation temperature. Any =
thoughts on the matter?
Shelby
Asheville, NC
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Simonzip@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 14:14:57 -0400
Subject: Others problems / Stove output
Non-Brewing related:
While everyone seems to agree that it would be much nicer to read "brewing"
related posts, this forum is continuously plagued with the opposite as of
late. Is everyone just a hypocrite employing a double-standard? Quite
frankly, it does me no good (I can't help you!) to read about how many copies
of the digest you got on a given day or what commands Majordomo does or
doesn't recognize (no offense intended to anyone in particular). I'm sure
these issues could be sorted out via private e-mail with the digest janitor.
Just last week I recommended this forum to a newbie, I hope he didn't
subscribe yet he'll think I'm nuts.
Brewing related:
I have a very old Magic Chef gas stove in my basement that is use exclusively
for brewing (gotta love that). Is it possible to adjust the output of a
burner? Can I "open it up a little" to get more heat for faster or bigger
volume boils? I know, I know it was designed to operate as it is. Just
wondering if it's "possible"?
Darrin
Proprietor-Simpleton's Cosmic Brewery
------------------------------
From: shawn@aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 14:20:23 -0600
Subject: Update
It seems that some e-mail from digest #2044 has been stuck on-route and
ended up mailing more than one copy. This seems to have happened to
only some people and is due to a routing problem in between aob.org and
wherever the subscriber is. I think that the problem has been solved,
but I won't know for a bit since I do not have control of the machine
that has decided to mangle that digest, but if nothing else it should
expire soon.
- - shawn
shawn@aob.org
Digest Janitor
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Date: Tue, 28 May 96 12:52:31 CDT
Subject: Crabtree effect
Jim writes:
> In my opinion, and it is only an opinion,
>the crabtree effect is irrelevent with the levels of sugars added to
>bottle condition.
You're right it is irrelevent, but for the wrong reason (based upon
the rest of your post). It is irrelevent because it is always in effect
and therefore we should just live with it. It doesn't matter if you
prime with wort, malt extract or corn sugar, the yeast will *still*
not respire (this is the crabtree effect) but since they want the oxygen
for *other* reasons, they will eagerly take oxygen if you give it to them.
Mind you, there are other reactions taking place between oxygen and
the beer so its not like your beer is compleatly protected from oxidation
by your yeast.
I would venture a guess that there is more to fear from oxidation due
to the oxygen bound up in the melanoidins (from HSA) than from any
headspace air.
> I made a Duvel clone with two (reputedly) different strains of the
>Duvel yeasts. Duvel is mashed to about 1.058 and then the gravity is raise
>to the 1.070's with dextrose. For fear of Crabtree with the very high levels
>of dextrose to be added, I prepared a very large starter (2.5 litres) with
>45 litres of beer. I pitched this in a conventional gravity 1.058 wort, well
>oxygenated, and got a very happy ferment going. My thoughts were to get a
>vigorous ferment and then add liquid dextrose...wrong! I added the Dextrose
>and the ferment virtually came to a halt. It took 3 weeks for the yeast to
>finally poop out and as it was still sweet, I ended up finishing the beer
>with some Celis yeast which I had collected from a Primary. This finished
>quickly.
2.5 liters is not a very large starter for 45 litres of beer. 45 litres
is more than double a standard 5-gallon batch and 2.5 liters is close to
the right pitching rate for a 5-gallon batch of medium-gravity ale. I
don't know what happened to cause your sudden halt, but it was not the
crabtree effect as you imply. It could be that the yeast you used was
particularly damaged (say, by starvation or temperature shock) and because
of this they had trouble with the wort as the alcohol level (not necessarily
the gravity) went up.
Here's a similar story. I had heard from several people that Westmalle is
bottled with a bottling strain and not the fermentation yeast. This was
the assumption that someone had arrived at because they tried using the
yeast and it was very unattenuative. Then, at the Spirit of Belgium, I
heard from Pierre Rajotte that the yeast in Westmalle is indeed the
fermentation yeast and that the problem with fermentations that people
were having were because the yeast in the bottoms of the bottles was because
they had been "beat up" quite severely. If memory serves correctly, Pierre
said that with lots of generations of reviving, he eventually got the
"bottling" yeast to ferment a wort down to a reasonable attenuation.
Jim then writes:
> The moral to the story is...make a small beer first and pitch all
>of this yeast into a strong beer made with dextrose.
Jim's right -- the best way to make a well-attenuated strong beer is to
use the entire yeast cake from a small (or medium-gravity) beer.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd@uchastings.edu>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 12:01:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Feb's Mead Still Green!
For Thomas Trautman, and all other interested parties.
Some questions about blackberry use. Were these berries under/just
right/over ripe? and how many pounds per gallon? When I make blackberry
wine, I use anywhere from 5 - 10 pounds per gallon, depending on the
desired results. Also, about high alcohol meads, they tend to take much
longer than low alcohol meads to mellow. Last year I made three meads,
ginger, pineapple, and pear. the ginger came out to about 14%, pineapple
at 11.5%, and the pear at 10%. Well, the ginger is still mellowing after
a year, the pineapple was good at six months, much better at 9 months,
and the pear was ready to go, at 5 months, fantastic at 9 months. As a
rule, I taste at 3 months, then 6. If it is still "green" at 6 months,
then I don't crack the next bottle until one year has passed.
If you want to speed up aging time, a trick I have used, is this. Use
half white sugar, half honey. You still get a definate honey
contribution, but it is not nearly as strong, and it is usually ready to
drink in 3 - 6 months.
Hope this helps.
Doug Thomas
thomasd@uchastings.edu
------------------------------
From: JEFFREY.T.ANDERSON@x400gw.ameritech.com
Date: 28 May 96 12:12:27 -0500
Subject: 1.25 lb CO2 Tank
Dear Collective:
I recently came across some 1.25lb CO2 cylinders, and no one can
identify them. I am hoping one of you might have some insight. They are
11 inches tall including the head valve and 3 inches in diameter.
The cylinders were manufactured by Luxfer USA Limited, Riverside,
California But they know noting about them. The fitting on the head of
the cylinder is a 90 degree brass with no threads, with an id of 3/4
inch and an od 15/16 inch. It is labeled RGS 220 G 4/87 08D43 200 BAR .
The people at the CO2 fill up place had no idea who would carry such a
thing and they said they could test it but they could not refill it
because of the weird fitting on the head. They were also unwilling to
remove the head and try to put a standard one on (Me Too), 700psi is
nothing to play with.
Does any one know if it would be possible to use these with a keg?
Jeff Anderson, Master CNE
Ameritech Custom Business IT
jeffrey.t.anderson@ameritech.com
------------------------------
From: Ulick Stafford <ulick@indigo.ie>
Date: Wed, 29 May 1996 00:11:53 +0100
Subject: Micro sewage requirements; Dublin's first brewpub
I am starting planning procedures for a microbrewery in a converted
agricultural shed. Two planning issues will be tricky (well I am, sure
more will be). One is entrance - not brewing related and the other is
sewage. I will need a septic system to handle effluent. However, I will
need to know the likely quantity and BOD. Is there any rule of thumb,
and authorative information I could use when making my application. I
expect my brewery to pollute less than a silage pit, but it would be nice
to have figures to back this up.
Dublin's first brewpub opens today (Wednesday). I will be in Dublin for
the Leinster Hurling first round match between Wexford and Kilkenny on
Sunday and will post a review afterwards (of the brewpub, not the
hurling match :-). It is in the Temple Bar area. I know little more
about it at this stage.
I have had no problems with delivery of hbd since the aol takeover (some
positive feedback). But can the complainers keep their complaints off
line. Praise in public, criticise in private (except when the subject is
Al Copyright :-).
_____________________________________________________________________________
Wexford Brewing Company | Ulick Stafford, Proprietor
Purveyor of Advanced Homebrewing Supplies | ulick@indigo.ie
Ballyhurst, Taghmon, Co. Wexford | Phone/Fax: +353-53-47957
------------------------------
From: jay@ro.com (Jay Reeves)
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 16:24:37 -0500
Subject: Re: Hose length
Kelly Jones responds to my questions about hose pressure drop:
(snip)
>Again, the simple answer to this question is that if your keg is at 12
>psi, then the pressure drop from the keg to your glass is always 12 psi,
>regardless of your hose length.
(snip)
>It is not possible to specify a pressure
>drop per foot of hose, as the pressure drop per foot is dependent both
>upon hose diameter AND flow rate.
Then Bob Waterfall responds:
>anyone know how the data Jay quoted were derived?
I did a search of the archives and found a post on Jan 13, 1995
from John Glaser<glaser@widlar.ece.arizona.edu>. (You still
out there John? Care to comment?)
Here's part of that post. Does anyone out there use these figures?
JG>In short, in order to get minimal foaming at the tap, you want
JG>to have a pressure drop across the beer line and tap that equals the
JG>pressure at the keg. I have gleaned the
JG> following approximate pressure drop figures for immediate use:
JG>
JG> 3/8" I.D. hose 0.25 psi/ft.
JG> 1/4" I.D. hose 0.85 psi/ft.
JG> 3/16" I.D. hose 2.2 to 3 psi/ft.
JG> standard spigot 1-2 psi
JG> check valve 2 psi (CO2 side only)
JG> vertical rise 1 psi/ft. (avg. measured from keg center)
(snip)
JG>The actual pressure drops in the beer line, spigot, etc. depend
JG>on the fluid (beer) velocity, with the pressure drops increasing as
JG>velocity increases. I suspect this is probably nearly-linear for slow
JG>flow rates with minimal fluid turbulence, and you don't want a lot of
JG>turbulence unless you like foam more than beer (feel free to call me
JG>on this if I'm wrong). Hence, the above pressures are valid at a
JG>specific flow rate. I was given a rate of about 0.5 to 1 oz./sec. for
JG>the pressure drop quoted for 3/16" line, and assume the other figures
JG>are probably for a similar flow rate. In fact, no matter what kind of
JG>line you use, nearly all the keg pressure must appear across the beer
JG>line and spigot, since the tap opens to the atmosphere. With too-short
JG>and/or too-wide lines, the total resistance to fluid flow becomes too
JG>small and the beer velocity increases, causing additional turbulence in
JG>the line and at the tap, which in turn causes the sudden release of CO2
JG>in the form of foam (the latter is conjecture on my part). The flow rate
JG>of 0.5 to 1 oz./sec is probably a good compromise between too much foam
JG>and waiting forever to get a glass of beer.
I'm not sure I believe the part about 2.2 - 3psi/ft drop - that's quite
a lot for 1 foot of hose and no where near what I've experienced.
-Jay Reeves
Huntsville, Alabama, USA
------------------------------
From: Gregory King <GKING@ARSERRC.Gov>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 17:19:52 -0500 (EST)
Subject: flow rates in chillers
In HBD #2044 I wrote (as part of my summary of immersion chiller dimensions):
> >To get the same volume of water flowing through chillers with different
> >tubing diameters, the chiller with the narrower tubing must be longer.
> >The relationship is inversely proportional to the square of the tubing
> >diameters.
To which C.D. Pritchard (cdp@chattanooga.net) replied in HBD #2050:
>??? Other variables being equal, the narrower tubing requires a shorter
>length.
>Also, per the empirically derived Hazen-Williams equation, the flow varies
>with diameter^4.87, not 2. A good Mech. or Civil Engr. text has the details.
My original post was badly worded. I was talking about the volume of water
in the chiller, not flow rates. My mistake was to use the word "flowing"
(although if C.D. had noticed the word "inversely" he would have realized we
were talking about two different things).
I did mention in that same #2044 post that flow rates were reduced in narrower
tubing. To me this seems like one more reason to make chillers with narrower
tubing longer than you would for chillers with wider tubing.
Greg King
gking@arserrc.gov
------------------------------
From: bobcapl@rpnet.net (Bob Caplan)
Date: Tue, 28 May 96 23:18:47 GMT
Subject: Re: Pub etiquette
>From: charles epp <cepp@indiana.edu>
>How about this for stupid beer-quaffing tricks? (And this is a
question
>regarding pub etiquette.) Several days ago at my favorite local pub, I
got
>a pint that wasn't filled to the rim. It was significantly under.
Maybe
>I was tired, maybe I had a bad day (but I don't remember having a bad
day
>until then). In any case, I politely asked to have the pint topped
off,
>which the bartender amicably did, and for which I thanked him. But my
>waitress then proceeded to lecture me on the cost of the brewpub's
brewing
>equipment and on the fact that they'd done market research and had
>determined that $3 for a pint was perfectly acceptable, and that I
>shouldn't be so cheap. Suddenly my enjoyable ale went stale, and I
was
>left second-guessing my tact. My question is: at a pub, is it
acceptable
>to ask that a less than full pint be topped up? How many of you have
been
>so principled/daring/rude/selfish/whatever?
>
>Chuck
Chuck, my friend, of course it is acceptable to ask for your pint to be
topped up. The pint ain't a pint as it is (and that's been brought up
here
before). So, your waitperson (ain't that PC!!) lectured you on the
cost of
opening a brewery, and that $3 a pint was a good rate. I have to
agree, $3
a pint _is_ a good price, but that's for a pint (which is closer to 12
ounces in pub anyway). If you get 1 ounce less (and everyone else too)
every 12 glasses adds up to a free one for the house. I'm not against
capitalism, but don't cheat me. You (meaning the pub) said a pint (or
a
full glass), so give it to me. As far a what it cost to put the
brewery
together, what does that matter? If they need to charge $3.25 for that
pint, then do it and keep fillin' those glasses.
GOODtime Bob
- --- End of forwarded mail from Homebrew
------------------------------
From: hollen@vigra.com
Date: Tue, 28 May 96 15:21:58 PDT
Subject: Re: Pump Question for RIMS Gurus
>>>>> "Lynn" == Lynn Ashley <73744.3234@CompuServe.COM> writes:
Lynn> To: INTERNET:homebrew@aob.org
Lynn> With a RIMS as my goal, I been watching for inexpensive suitable
Lynn> pumps. One which caught my attention is in the Surplus Center (SC)
Lynn> catalog, item 2-1045, $13, mfg by Gorman Rupp Model EK324498.
Have to look at this in the catalog, but off the top of my head from
what you tell me, here goes.
Lynn> Can any of you RIMS gurus comment on the suitability of this pump
Lynn> for 5 gal batches.
Lynn> Areas which appear to come up short of Morris' recommendations
Lynn> are: 1.75 GPM @ 3 ft head, 3.5 GPM max --- Morris recommends 4-8
Lynn> GPM @ 1 ft head; 5.5 ft max head --- Morris recommends 6-20 ft
Lynn> shut off head.
This is critical. Unless you are using Morris' recommendation of a
70% open area false bottom, this pump is *severely* underpowered. Bet
you ran your tests just pumping water. Get a grain bed in your mash
tun and you may see almost no flow at all.
Lynn> If anyone has a Gorman Rupp catalog perhaps it lists the max liquid
Lynn> temperature for continuous operation. My test suggest it may be
Lynn> suitable for the mash temp range. The SC catalog describes the pump
Lynn> as being chemical resistant and having a thermoplastic resin body
Lynn> and impeller.
Why not just call them up???
Patterson Pump Co., Sub. Of The Gorman-Rupp Co.
Toccoa, GA 30577 USA
706-886-2101
FAX: 706-886-0023
Lynn> This pump is not self priming. With proper pump placement, is this
Lynn> a problem?
No pumps that meet Morris' recommendations are self priming. They
must be *lower* than the source and have a sufficient gravity feed to
prevent cavitation.
Lynn> Other qualities of the pump appear to conform to Morris'
Lynn> recommendations: magnetic drive, 1/2" hosebard ports, triac
Lynn> motor controllable and ~1/30 HP ?? (35% eff? & 230V @ 0.3A).
Lynn> Morris recommends 1/50 to 1/20 HP.
With anything other than a 70% open area false bottom, even 1/20hp is
severely underpowered.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
------------------------------
From: korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Date: Tue, 28 May 96 17:24:16 CDT
Subject: rye/CP fillers/hammer mills
Bryan writes:
>About rye, is the stuff generally sold in brewing supply stores malted rye
>or unmalted rye? Or does it depend? I assume rye flakes are unmalted.
It can be either. Your retailer should know the difference and tell you
on the package. In my experience, there are more wholesalers that have
*malted* rye available, but that doesn't mean that your retailer can't
simply go to a health food store and buy some unmalted rye. Yes, flaked
rye would be unmalted.
***
Bryan also writes:
>Does anyone have any comments about the Zymurgy road test of
>counterpressure bottle fillers from last summer or so? Anyone want to
>really recommend the one they use?
>One thing I didn't understand in the article is the air reports. They
>expressed air as a percentage, + or -, of the baseline, which was 2 ml.
>The "worst case" bottle filler was just filling a bottle from the picnic
>tap, which causes a lot of CO2 loss but also adds air. The test
>results on the beer were -30% air. Why minus? I read this as 30%
>less air than the 2 ml. baseline. This can't be right.
>Although I don't know the numbers, I have to assume that minus is
>bad and plus is good. The expensive fillers all come out on the plus
>side.
There were a lot of suspicious things in that article that suggested
there was some inconsistency in the operation of the fillers, but the
lower air level in the el-cheapo filler is not one of them. Remember
that in a non-counterpressure filler (which the el-cheapo filler was)
lots of CO2 comes out of solution as you fill. This evolving CO2 will
purge much of the air that enters as you withdraw the filler (see the
recent article on air and bottling in Brewing Techniques). So, you
sacrifice CO2 with this filler but the air level will, indeed, be very low.
>Will all the fillers described allow this [foam through the release valve],
>or will you get into trouble if more than just gas escapes through the
>pressure release valve.
Hmmm... good question. I would say that it would depend on the type of
the release valve. In my home-made one, I use a needle valve which could
get very difficult to operate if beer dried in there. Flushing after use
would be recommended. Other types of valves may not even be as forgiving
as a needle valve regarding getting gummed-up with beer. I suggest that
you should ask the mfgrs.
***
Jim writes:
>With all this discussion of milling hasn't anyone out there read the new
Stout
>book and seen that guinness uses a hammer mill? These types of mills crush
the
>whole kernel husk and all to dust.
Are you sure that we're talking about the same kind of hammer mill? If you
look in Malting and Brewing Science (I believe that Noonan's 1st book may
also have one) there is a drawing of a hammer mill for grain. It basically
works by trapping grain under a revolving plate (there are four of them at
0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees) in a "sort-of" round bin. The clearance between
the plate and the bin shrinks as the plate approaches the bottom of the bin.
Perhaps there is a different type of hammer mill that Jim is talking about
that works in a different way and does indeed crush the whole lot to dust?
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
From: Chris Strickland <cstrick@iu.net>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 20:49:36 -0400
Subject: Yeast Mixtures
I've noticed that when I use American Ale Yeast (Wyeast) it take longer to
ferment out and doesn't seem to ferment out as well as the London Ale Yeast
(Wyeast). My taste buds are not quite good enough to really distinquish,
but I think I like the American Ale Yeast slightly better, but I want the
better fermentation characteristics of the London Ale yeast. I make higher
% beers, 6.5% to 7.5%. What would happen if I mixed these two yeasts, then
used the sludge for the next several batches? Would I get the best of both?
- --------------
Chris Strickland
cstrick@iu.net
http://www.teg.saic.com/mote/saicmote.htm
------------------------------
From: Gord Reid <gdr@ra.isisnet.com>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 22:31:37 -0700
Subject: Thanks
Thanks everyone for your responses to my query on SG readings. We have
bottle the batch and will now sit back a few days, put it in the basement
and give it a whirl in about 2 weeks.
Wish you all could come here to Nova Scotia for the uncaping :)
Thanks again
gord
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Richard Gardner <rgardner@monarch.papillion.ne.us>
Date: Tue, 28 May 1996 23:21:02 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Iodophor precipitate/white deposit in carboy
At risk of bringing back the reuse of Iodophor thread --- I found a coating
of a milky (chalky) white deposit in the glass carboy that I had been
storing Iodophor solution in. It is more concentrated at the bottom
(gradient decreasing as you go up the carboy). It looks sort of baked on.
This coating/layer/ precipitate/whatever did not come off with
rinsing/shaking, nor blasting with a bottle cleaner.
Questions: What is it? (AJ?)
Any suggestions on how to clean the carboy? (biggest concern)
Is my carboy ruined? ;)
Could this be a problem in corny kegs in which Iodophor is stored?
A few specifics: Length of time solution in carboy - maybe 1.5 months, not
perfectly sealed so the yellow went away. I have hard water (220 ppm
hardness). The solution (before pouring out) was slightly milky with some
floating white chunks maybe 1cm x 1cm in size. I have refilled the carboy
so it wouldn't dry out.
Conjecture: Some reaction caused the calcium to precipitate out of solution
and onto the carboy surface.
======
Separate comment: I just tried an ESB that I made using the new Columbus
hops for bittering. WOW! A very good bitterness without the harshness or
grassiness of some other hops. It is also outside the competition
guidelines by taste (60 IBU calculated), but I really like it. However, it
did take about 1.5 months to age. At 3 weeks it was very harsh - this same
recipe using Willamette is usually drinkable in 3 weeks (45 IBU).
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2053
****************************
