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HOMEBREW Digest #2034
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/05/11 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #2034 Sat 11 May 1996
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Keg Dangers (Charlie Scandrett)
Bomb Threat / TEXO (RMoline930)
Coffee Makers and Extract Water and BSing (Russell Mast)
? recipe for american style beer (tctenng)
Strawberries....Bottling Spigots (Paul Fischer)
Grain Mills (Marty Tippin)
re: Does size matter? (Dave Whitman)
Re: HOPS (tgaskell)
Fridge Control (KennyEddy)
Brewing with coffee (George De Piro)
Mills ("Manning Martin MP")
Re: hop growing vs. ground hogs/benefits of shotguns (Scott Abene)
Re: Does Size Matter, and a question ("John Boshier")
Re: Iodophor -- oz to cc conversion (Mike Uchima)
Columbus/WY3056/Berliner Weisse/FWH & MTH (Steve Alexander)
Boil overs (Bob Wysong)
"Honey one of your bottles just exploded."|Dry yeast|AoB (Jeff Smith)
Lauter tun screen in 1/2 bbl keg (BEERISH)
Freezing Yeast (Geza T Szenes/IPL)
Re: Question on beer glasses ("Paul J. Morstad")
Rye & sucanat (Jacob Galley)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 07:34:25 +1000
From: merino@cynergy.com.au (Charlie Scandrett)
Subject: Keg Dangers
Keith Royster posted on keg bombs after recieving a BB damaged keg,
>Now seriously Charlie, do you really beleive this!? <SNIP>
> But let's think about the reality here and not the theory....
>1) Think of all of the kegs out there that homebrewers are using. I'd
>bet that 90% of them, if not more, were obtain in a very USED
>condition. If we had to throw them out everytime one got nicked or
>dented, we wouldn't have any kegs left.
I use bent kegs, but not work hardened ones.
>2) Think of all of the nicked and dented kegs in use out there now.
>Have you ever heard of a homebrewer telling about how his blew up.
>3) Think about how used and dented the kegs are you see behind
>fast-food restaraunts. Soda is under much more pressure than our beer
>is, yet you never hear about "an explosion at Burger King."
>4) You say "even 7 psi is 1/2 a tonne force on the top of your keg
>alone!" Yeah, so. It's still just 7 psi. That's why we measure the
>force "per square inch".
>In summary, here's what'll happen IF/when a dent in your corney keg
>finally cracks open... beer and foam will come out of the hole with
>the violent force of a trickle and you'll have a huge mess to clean up
>in your beer fridge.
This I don't seriously believe, compressed gas propells beer out in a rocket
stream and the keg takes off.
I get my info from a keg manufacturer and working engineers. The work
hardening is related to the speed of impact, *very sharp* impact is about
the only way to harden SS. *The ballistic velocities of BB are much higher
than normal dings.* The problem if it lets go with a tear( which is what
happens) is the beer is expelled in a great rush and the keg goes ballistic.
This is what I posted last year,
>Chas Peterson and Pat Babcock are the latest to post that their keg
carbonation caused >bulbous expansion of their kegs. They "boinked".
I had not realised they were talking 5 Litre kegs.
>This has worried me greatly so I trotted off to my local keg manufacturer and
>had a chat to the tester.
>His kegs are rated to 4 ATM pressure,(60psi) and routinely tested to
>6ATM.(90psi)
>They are also occasionally hydrostatically destruction tested. This is
what happens.
>1/At 10-14 ATM (150 psi) they become bulbous, "boink".
>2/At 17-20 ATM (265 psi) they burst around the neck.
>3/Old battered ones burst around the bottom.
>An old dented 54 litre keg was once half filled with water and gas
pressurized. At 14 >ATM the bottom tore out, it flipped and destroyed the
pallet it was standing on, then >erratically kangaroo hopped oround the yard
until all the water was ejected.
>Maximum altidude reached ~ 5 metres.
>Maximum distance travelled ~ 25 metres
<SNIP>
>Please don't feel you might insult by asking others what their pressure
relief system >is. A little peer pressure might save one of your friends
serious injury.
I would not want to be in any brewery when a keg went at even 15psi !
I think the whole area of BB impact will eventually unzip with linking cracks.
*I am probably wrong*, (I sincerely hope so) but hanging around with
tradesman engineers has taught me to be very careful, they tell stories.........
Our untutored use of pressure and gas systems concerns me sometimes that
this hobby is not completely harmless. Someone better qualified could post a
gas and pressure safety FAQ to the appropriate archives. Any gas fitters out
there?
Charlie(Brisbane, Australia)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 18:36:38 -0400
From: RMoline930@aol.com
Subject: Bomb Threat / TEXO
And now for something completely different...
I know it's not brewing, but it's related and I thought the collective would
be interested. Just received the daily post and from the FBI to The Beer
Institute to the Institute for Brewing Studies comes the following:
******************************************************************************
*****************
ATTENTION FBI
Any radio or TV station broadcasting commercials of alcoholic beverages will
be targeted. Hundreds of children die every year because of accidents
involving alcohol. The broadcast industry is mostly to blame for this.
Children see and hear advertisements for Busch, Budweiser, etc. on TV and
radio and get the wrong idea.
The broadcasting of TV movies and programs involving alcohol are excluded.
What is being addressed is commercials only. Any radio or TV station that
broadcasts an alcohol commercial, or mentions a brewery sponsor during
sporting events, the following will happen:
1. That particular radio or TV sation's transmitting equipment and
transmission tower will be targeted by explosives.
2. If a network is the source of the transmission, then the microwave
towers relaying the signal will be targeted by explosives. (excluding
orbiting satellites, obviously)
3. Those breweries seen or heard on the TV or Radio add or commercial
will be targeted by explosives. The locations of production will be destroyed
by explosives with chemical additives. The destruction of the lives at the
breweries will be much smaller than the destruction to the lives of children
killed every year by other children and young adults because of the
naturalistic and clear message that the commercial is sending.
4. If the networks continue to broadcast these commercials AFTER the
FBI has informed them of this threat, then trucks carrying the alcohol logos
on the side of breweries truck will be fired upon
Other measures have been authorized as necessary. Please inforn the
following organizations and networks: ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, CNN, TURNER,
TIME-WARNER, and all privately owned broadcasting companies who own TV
commercial class licenses.
The FCC will need to be notified so all radio sations are aware of the
threat and the fact that they are responsible. By not broadcasting alcohol
commercials over the airwaves, we can save help lives. If these companies
continue to broadcast over the radio and TV with their rediculous
commercials, then the Broadcasting industry is telling us that its ok to do
what we stated above.
Drinking alcohol is not bad. It's the irresponsibility of breweries to
target young peolpe by the content of their commercials is bad. Friut juices
should be the sponser of NASCAR and INDY races, not BUSCH or MILLER.
Network news better broadcast this story and threat within 24 hours of
the FBI receiving this letter. If it is not seen on the news, then the
operation(s) will begin. To avoid chaos,
HEED THIS LETTER WITH WARNING. THIS IS YOUR ONLY WARNING.
DON'T FUCK AROUND WITH THE LIVES OF OUR CHILDREN.
GOD BLESS
******************************************************************************
**************
(Verbatim text)
Just what we need, another wanker with an attitude!
On the TEXO Iodophor and test kit deal, Mr. Weymouth just faxed me with the
info that they would rather not sell to individuals. I had been assured that
they would sell to homebrewers this morning when I spoke to him regarding
posting the info on HBD, but apparently the boys in marketing said no. Sorry.
Maybe your local pub will act as intermediary for you
I will remain restrained on text length in future, just thought the bomb deal
was newsworthy. I was unaware of it, 'til this afternoon.
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 17:53:15 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Coffee Makers and Extract Water and BSing
Well, it's good to see Jim Busch has entered the Phil Zone.
> From: Bob Grabhorn <grabhorn@olywa.net>
> Subject: HBD Content/Quality
> I agree wholeheartedly with Russell, and I'm a certified moron.
See! If two people as stupid as us can figure it out, why can't everyone
else? In all fairness - the quality of the posts here has taken a sudden
leap skyward (just BEFORE my post, of course) and I love you all for it.
> From: Simonzip@aol.com
> Subject: Idophor / HBD & my opinion
> I think this forum should continue to be conducted from the private sector.
I think we all agree on that - the government is too big as it is.
> From: "Alvin M. Clement" <aclement@mail.orion.org>
> Subject: re: water and extract ales
>
> OK, neophyte question time. Our city well water is incredibly hard (we
> go through 2-3 coffee makers a year)
This isn't directly related to BEER brewing, but do you try to clean your
coffemakers with vinegar? I run about 50/50 vinegar water through it
(ALL the way through it) every few months, and it really cleans it right
up. Stinks to high heaven, and I rinse it thoroughly afterward.
> but still tastes ok. Since I
> haven't made the leap to all grain and am brewing with extracts and
> speciality grains just how concerned should I be about water chemistry.
You say your water tastes okay - how does your BEER taste.
I would recommend preboiling all of your water. If you don't notice any
difference at all, maybe don't worry about it. One of these batches, buy
some bottled water (it's not that cheap for a test batch) and brew with
that. Use a recipe you've done before, to make the comparison more valid.
If you notice an significant improvement in taste, worry about your water.
Otherwise, well, what's the point?
-Russell Mast
copyright 1996 Damo Suzuki
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 May 1996 22:30:11 -0400 (EDT)
From: tctenng@vbbusnw1.tc.cc.va.us
Subject: ? recipe for american style beer
OK stop laughing !! I actually would like to try to make an bud/mich clone.
It would be nice to have a keg in the beer frig for those who have not yet
aquired our distinquised pallets. :-} I would prefer an all grain recipe. I
assume if I use rice or corn I would have to crack it first. Also, I'm not
sure about a grain bill or mash schedule. Thanks for any help.
You know I was just thinking...it seems that making a beer that light would
be chalanging because it sure would show infections or mistakes.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 07:16:22 -0700
From: Paul Fischer <fischerp@emh1.gordon.army.mil>
Subject: Strawberries....Bottling Spigots
I must say that I feel kind of out of my league here reading the past
several HBDs....we have plenty of experience out there..that can only
help me though! :-)
First, I am looking to do a strawberry beer, being summer and all, but
I have found various recipes but they vary on whether to boil or steep
the berries, freeze them to break the cell walls, use "I forget" to
prevent setting of pectin and how much if any. I am looking to heavy on
the malts but want to retain the strawberry aroma and flavor. Help
please!
Next....I have sent messages to virtually every home brew shop in the
nation looking for an alternative to the crappy Italian white and red
bottling spigot. I have to buy a new one every 4th brew or so just to
prevent a possible spigot explosion. No it is not the rubber washers,
the lever, it is the seal that joins the body with the head of the
spigot. Bottom line is I want to get another spigot, I would prefer a
metal or really good plastic one. I know there is a black one/new one
coming out soon...any news or reviews?
Sorry the message is so long....
-Paul..Augusta, Georgia
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 08:14:51 -0500
From: Marty Tippin <martyt@sky.net>
Subject: Grain Mills
Jack writes in HBD 2033:
>Promoting your favorite product is fair game but when words like
>"similar to the JSP MaltMill" are used, I reserve the right to point
>out differences.
>
>The rollers on the Valley mill are considerably smaller, they are
>made from hollow tubes instead of solid stock and it uses plastic
>bearings instead of oil impregnated bronze.
Correct on all 3 counts. But...
1.) You said somewhere else that the rollers are 3" longer on your mill.
So what. The only difference I can see would be perhaps a higher volume of
grain per revolution (i.e., higher throughput per crank). Otherwise it
doesn't matter if the rollers are 6 inches or 6 ft. long; each little grain
of malt is only going to see a small part of the rollers anyway. The
diameter of the roller would make bigger difference, a larger diameter
exposing more crushing surface. I don't know offhand what the diameter of
the valley mill's rollers is but it's probably not a lot different than the
malt mill.
2.) Your implication on the last two points is that the valley mill won't
be as durable as the malt mill. For the homebrewer who only does a few
batches per month, this will never become a factor. For the microbrewer
who's doing batches all the time using hundreds of pounds of grain, maybe
so. But the valley mill isn't designed or marketed for the microbrewer.
With respect to the hollow vs. solid rollers, again I don't see what
difference it makes unless you intend to crush rocks, semi-precious gems or
titanium... Don't know what the thickness of the rollers on the valley mill
is, but I'll give odds the rollers will always win in a battle with the
kernels of grain.
And on the plastic vs. bronze bushings, again not much of an issue to the
homebrewer who does a few batches a month.
> >I can get around 4 or 5 lbs. of grain in it at once, so it's not
> >as much of a chore as other mills.
>Just what makes stopping to fill a 3 pound hopper such a chore? And
Actually having to stop and do it 2 times for a 5-gallon batch is a pain.
Stopping once is still a pain but only 50% as much... ;-) Some mills use a
2-liter pop bottle or an old clorox bottle for a hopper, so the large hopper
on the valley mill is a definite plus.
>anyone can put a hole in a 5 gal bucket and set on top of MM to make
>a 25 lb hopper. Try putting one on the very top heavy VM. We also offer
>a Large Hopper Adapter to make it even easier.
The hopper on the valley mill can be removed and replaced with whatever you
want - it'll take a little work, but it can be done. But 6lbs of capacity
ought to be enough for most homebrewers; 3 lbs really just isn't enough.
So, given that these issues are actually non-issues to the homebrewer, and
given that the mills produce a very similar crush (I used to use the malt
mill at the local homebrew shop; there's no perceptible difference between
them that I can tell), the only remaining issue is price.
The valley mill, for a whopping $99, comes with adjustable rollers and a
large hopper - a malt mill, similarly equipped, would run $167 according to
your web page and my math (shipping is about the same for both, even though
one comes from Ontario, Canada and the other from the north central US. Go
figure...)
That $77 difference in price makes a big difference to most homebrewers and
was certainly one of the deciding factors in my purchase decision.
I'm not saying the malt mill isn't a good product; it's clearly one of the
best mills on the market. But I also think it's fair to say there's another
player out there, namely the valley mill, that rivals even the best mills.
-Marty
martyt@sky.net
http://www.sky.net/~martyt
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 09:21:43 -0400
From: dwhitman@rohmhaas.com (Dave Whitman)
Subject: re: Does size matter?
In HBD2033, Bob Paolino asks:
>Here's the problem. It's a fantastic beer, imnsho, if I pour it from a 1/2
>litre or 22 ounce bottle, but every _12_ ounce bottle I've opened so far has
>been just about uncarbonated even though the 1/2 litre and 22 ounce bottles
>opened have been just fine, with appropriate carbonation and an absolutely
>beautiful head.
>
>Any ideas/explanations/suggestions? None of the usual variables for poor
>carbonation appear to apply. It's not likely to be the seal on the caps,
>because they're all the same caps, treated the same way. It's not likely to
>be uneven priming, because the sugar was well-mixed, and the bottles were
>filled in random order.
Perhaps the problem *is* caused by leaky caps. Suppose the caps had an
imperfect seal, so that CO2 was slowly leaking out. The rate of CO2 loss
is proportional to the pressure in the bottle, NOT the size of the bottle.
Since both bottle sizes lose CO2 gas at the same rate but the big bottles
contain more CO2, at any given time the small bottles will have lost a
larger percentage of their carbonation. QED.
- ---
Dave Whitman
Rohm and Haas Specialty Materials
dwhitman@rohmhaas.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 96 10:05:06 EDT
From: tgaskell@e3sa.elab.syr.ge.com
Subject: Re: HOPS
This past Christmas, after I had taken the all grain plunge, my
SO (how come they are always the last to know?) got me a kit
from HopTech called Blue Whale Ale. This is the hoppiest beer
I have ever had.
The recipe is from Pacific Coast Brewing, a brewpub in Oakland
and the hops in this brew can send shivers up your spine. This
beer is the pefect tonic for "hopheadedness".
The kit contained 9 lbs. of pale extract, about 1.5 lbs. of
grain to steep, and over SEVEN OUNCES of hop pellets, broken
up into packets of boil hops, flavor/aroma hops and dry hops.
This was a well constructed kit: fresh ingredients, packed
pretty well (the bag which contained the grain had a small
hole), and tasted like a well designed recipe. The instruc-
tions that shipped with the kit were comprehensive. If you
have not yet seen their catalog, surf there and check out the
ingredient kits.
No financial stake (yadda, yadda), but my wife said they were
a joy to deal with.
HopTech's phone: 1-800-DRY-HOPS.
HopTech's URL : http://www.hoptech.com
But the HOPS!!!
Tom Gaskell Hog Heaven Homebrewery
Clayville, NY, USA "Swig a Pig!"
tgaskell@e3sa.elab.syr.ge.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 10:08:41 -0400
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Subject: Fridge Control
Howard Smith asks:
> Ken (or whoever),
> Haven't checked out your web sites, but for fridge temp control, any
problem
> with just wiring in a better thermostat than the one the fridge came with?
I've
> got a fridge(about 20-30 yrs old) I tap out of. I keep the keg and CO2 tank
> in there, but would like to lager in there also...any comments?
Depends. The thermostat in a fridge is typically a simple bimetal but it
carries the entire 120V/xx amp load. An A/C or heater thermostat typically
operates with 24VAC at perhaps an amp tops. I know there are 120V
thermostats available; just be sure the current rating is compatible with
your fridge. Also, the thermostat would have to be entirely inside the
fridge; with the controllers that have been rpesented here, only the sensor
probe needs be inside the fridge; all power switching is done outside on the
fridge's power cord.
Another point is that for fermenting *ales*, temperatures above 60F are
desired. The typical thermostat that's "built in" probably doesn't go much
higher than 50F, I would think, although I don't know for sure. My advice
would be to fill a fermenter with water, set the thermostat on its highest
temperature setting, and see what happens.
If you can find a thermostat that (a) covers the temp range of interest and
(b) can handle the power required by your fridge, and you can (c) get at the
wiring inside and (d) mount the thermostat inside too, then (e) use it.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 09:30:56 -0700
From: George_De_Piro@berlex.com (George De Piro)
Subject: Brewing with coffee
Has anybody out there done any beer-brewing with coffee? I was
wondering if it's best to just make a pot of high-quality, very strong
coffee and add it to the beer at packaging, or to actually steep the
beans in the boil? My understanding is that boiling extracts harsh,
bitter compounds from the coffee beans. Is this true? Can you
"dry-bean" in the secondary, or is some heat essential to extract the
flavor and odor?
George_De_Piro@berlex.com
------------------------------
Date: 10 May 1996 10:17:32 U
From: "Manning Martin MP" <manning_martin_mp@mcst.ae.ge.com>
Subject: Mills
Jeremy Bergsman writes:
I have a little mill FAQ that I send around when I see people ask about
mills.
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb/beerstuff/millfaq.txt. It
is somewhat hurriedly written but if there is enough interest I can
spiff it up a bit.
Good idea. Just look how much discussion mills generate here.
Here's a correction, though. Glatt mills have "plastic" bearings AND
"plastic" gears (which drive the second roller). I have NEVER heard of a
failure of the bearings, but some failures of gears have been reported.
Early models had Delrin gears, and these proved to be a problem. Later ones
had Nylon gears, and, when I spoke to Glatt a year or so ago, he said that
this had cured it.
The Glatt is no longer being made, but there are quite a few of them out
there, and they may change hands from time to time, so I think it's worth
clearing this up. Mine has been motorized, and works beatifully. Somebody
really should buy the tooling and start making them again.
MPM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 09:21:50 -0500
From: Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com>
Subject: Re: hop growing vs. ground hogs/benefits of shotguns
The following is a thread from rec.crafts.brewing Below is my response to
the initial thread.
>>I'm just wondering if anyone out their has had a problem with ground hogs
>>getting into their hop plants. It is to early in the season (my first
>>growing hops) for me to be able to pick out a problem. My mother on the
>>other hand keeps saying I should put up a small fence or something to keep
>>them out. Personally I don't want to have to go to the bother of putting
>>something up if it is not needed. So if you've had problems please let me
>>know (I forgot to mention there are rabits around as well)
>>Thanks
>
>A fence won't do it unless you bury it 3 or 4 feet underground. At the
>risk of being tared and feathered by the do-gooders a 22 with hollow
>points works best for me when it comes to ground hogs.
>
>Larry
>
>Larry,
>I have found that .22's just don't cut the mustard. I have moved to a full
>.38 automatic with a laser sight.
>Those little bastards think they can sneak around at night and destroy
>my Tettanger.... HAH!!!
>Also, those Ground Hogs is good eatin'
>-Scott
Although this ground hog thing doesn't bother me much, I do have Rabbits
(which also
make good eatin' by the way) and was just wondering if they could be a
potential problem eating my hops.
Or are there any other hazards of hop growing that I should know?
Question: If the Rabbits eat my hops and I catch the little bastards can I
throw the Rabbits right into the boil like hops? I know my hopping schedule
(no pun intended there) but what about a bunny schedule?
Has anyone had thi happen?
-Scott
####################################################
# ThE-HoMe-BrEw-RaT #
# Scott Abene <skotrat@wwa.com> #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat #
# (Skotrats Official Homebrew "Beer Slut" Webpage) #
# OR #
# http://miso.wwa.com/~skotrat/Brew-Rat-Chat/ #
# (Skotrats Brew-Rat-Chat Homebrew Chat System) #
# "Get off your dead ass and brew" #
####################################################
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 96 9:22:48 -0400
From: "John Boshier" <john.boshier@telops.gte.com>
Subject: Re: Does Size Matter, and a question
In HBD 2033 Bob Paolino asks about bottle size in relation to carbonation
levels. I've had the same experience using 12 oz bottles and champagne
bottles for the same batch.
The most reasonable explanation I've heard is that there is more headspace
relative to the volume of liquid in the smaller bottles. This would
require either more time or more active fermentation(?)to condition the
beer to the same level as a larger container with a similar volume of
headspace. I believe this is somewhat supported by the "How much
Headspace in the Bottle" experiments posted here several months ago. This
is also why you would use less priming sugar or DME when kegging your beer
vs. bottling. I would let the 12 oz bottles sit a while longer and see if
they perk up a bit.
Now go have a 20 oz beer! :)
I have a question for the group....I notice that most extract recipes call
for both Dry Malt Extract(DME) and Liquid Malt Extract (LME). I buy LME
from the bulk drums at my homebrew supply store, meaning I weigh out the
amount of syrup I need for a recipe rather than buying 3.3 lb cans. I
don't usually add DME because I buy the amount of extract I need in liquid
form. My question is, am I missing some qualities of DME by only using
LME? I am wondering if DME is 'better' to use for some reason, of if I
should at least include a pound or two in each batch, or if it just
doesn't matter.
I've asked this question elsewhere and had a few (actually just
2)responses, but I'm interested in what opinions any of you might have on
this (not that anyone here could be called opinionated :))
Thanks in advance.
JB
john.boshier@telops.gte.com or
jbosh@cs.gte.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 09:44:03 -0500
From: uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Subject: Re: Iodophor -- oz to cc conversion
Simonzip@aol.com wrote:
> The consensus is to use anywhere from 12.5 to 25ppm, most going for 15ppm.
> The most common dilution to get to 12.5ppm is 1/2 oz per 5 gallons. Use
> closer to an ounce for really suspect items. I'm gonna use 9cc for now,
> 12cc=1oz.
Actually, I'm pretty certain that a fluid ounce (US) is approximately 30cc,
not 12.
- -- Mike Uchima
- -- uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 10:53:00 -0400
From: Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Columbus/WY3056/Berliner Weisse/FWH & MTH
Many topics ...
- --
Debolt Bruce <bdebolt@dow.com> writes about:
>Subject: Wyeast 1272 vs. 1056 in IPA; America Discovers Columbus
I am also enjoying a Columbus only high gravity ale. The hopping rate
quite a bit higher than Bruce's (FWH + 3 additions + 2oz for dry
hopping 8gal). This is a great hops, but since I haven't seen a
detailed descriptions of the aroma let me add my very subjective
comments. Columbus hops aroma is both floral and herbal and to my
nose is reminiscent of thyme, juniper berries and pine. The flavor
and aroma are complex and balanced. The bitterness added (at an
estimated 45 IBU a la Tinseth) is unusually smooth, tho' clearly
bitter.
>... I'd have to say the hoopla over Columbus is well justified. ...
Me too.
- -----------------------
The Patrick Weix's 'Yeast FAQ' says ...
>Wyeast 3056 Bavarian Weissen Yeast
> A 50/50 blend of S. cerevisiae and delbrueckii to produce a south German
> style wheat beer with cloying sweetness when the beer is fresh. Medium
> flocculation, apparent attenuation 73-77%. Optimum fermentation
> temperature: 56 deg. F (13 deg. C). Problematic to get the right flavor,
> often
> just produces relatively unattenuated beer, without the clove-like
> aroma/flavor. Perhaps it's the freshness of the Wyeast #3056 that makes the
> difference in whether you get the clove-like aroma/flavor or not. Wyeast
> appears to be selecting a better, "truer" weissen yeast to replace this
> quirky halfbreed.
OK - well I don't understand this at all. With the delbrueckii
component it's pretty clear that this is intended for Berliner weisse.
So why the complaint about a lack of phenolic character ? Am I
missing something ? Can anyone confirm the delbruckii strain.
- -------------------------
and Brian Thompson wrote a week+ ago ...
>Subject: Berliner Weisse Recipe Wanted
...
> ... but I have
>yet to run across one that calls for Lactobacillus Delbrueckii, the
>bacteria found in milk (?) that imparts the sour flavors.
Check out Classic Beer Style Series 'German Wheat Beer' by Eric
Warner. His 5 gallon recipe calls for ...
] 2.125 lb pale barley malt
] 2.125 lb pale wheat malt
] 0.32g alpha, using Perle hops (1 HBU)
] 2.75 qt Speise if fresh wort is being used, otherwise save ...
] 2.33 qt of wort for priming.
] OG = 1.032, apparent attenuation 90%
] 4.75 oz German top-fermenting yeast
] (NOT WEIZEN YEAST, but kolsch or alt yeast)
] 1 oz L.Delbruckii
] --
] mash 10'@40C; 35'@50C, 10'@62C, 20'@64C, 20'@72C (or till iodine test)
] mashout 5'@76C
] sparge @ 78C
] boil 105' minutes, half of hops at start, half after 90'.
] cool to 15C, pitch yeast & lacto.
] rack prime and bottle after primary fermentation.
] condition for 3 to 18 months !!!
] serve @ 7C
Note that this recipe assumes ~100% homebrew efficiency !!
It seems that Wyeast 3056 *may* be a fit.
As I posted a while back, the Yeast Kit Company in Ann Arbor, MI can
supply Lactobacillus Debruckii in pure culture form.
- --------------------
Also in Eric Warner's book there is a reference to adding hops to the
mash tun, mash tun hopping. Has anyone tried this ? It sounds
ineffective, but so does FWH. I guess the obvious next questions are
how do you hop during the malting process, and can bines be planted in
barley fields - ;^)
- --
Big thanks ++ due to Rob for operating HBD.
Have a nice trip Rob,
Steve Alexander
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 96 11:15:36 EDT
From: bob@ocs.com (Bob Wysong)
Subject: Boil overs
Hi all,
I bought a 1/2 barrel Sabco kettle (15 gallon capacity?) for going to
all-grain. (I'll never have a boil over with one of these, I thought)
I've used it 3 times, starting with about 7 1/2 gallons at the
start of the boil. I'm using a 170,000 BTU King Cooker (Scared the hell
out me the first time I lit it)
In each case, once the boil starts, the foam builds up and creates a
covered-pot effect keeping the heat in. It just keeps going on up and
out of my kettle, down the sides, onto the deck... etc. (Boy, I'm glad
I'm doing this outdoors)
I figured, OK I'll just turn off the heat, let it rest a bit and then it'll
be fine after that. At first it seems fine, rolling vigourously. Then, as
soon as my back is turned, I hear the dreaded hissing and sputtering monster
trying to escape.
It would be nice not to have to baby sit this for the 90 min or more it
usually takes. Does anybody have any tips on keeping the foam down? It
seems like this should be a common problem. BTW, I do keep the lid off
(hope no birds are flying overhead).
I do have a little adjuster to keep the flame down, but I want a good rolling
boil. Doesn't everybody?
-Bob Wysong
bob@ocs.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 13:49:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: snsi@win.bright.net (Jeff Smith)
Subject: "Honey one of your bottles just exploded."|Dry yeast|AoB
Well it must have been about 3:00 am when I heard that magical "POP" closely
followed by a tinkling. Before I could drift off to sleep my wife rolled
over and a clear head said: "Jeff, one of your beer bottles exploded."
Of course I had to run down to see (only sort foolish considering my bare
feet and the glass we found this morning 12' from ground zero). Most of
what I found I was pretty sure I would find:
1 It was a porter that I had primed with about 2-1/2 weeks ago.
2 It was in a Sam Adams'/Red River bottle. (The only kind I've seen explode.)
3 No beer had splashed on to the Oriental runner that in the back hall.
(Truefully, this was more a hope/wish than any firm conviction, though I
would have told my this to my wife weather or not it was true.)
I usually prime with 3/4 cup corn sugar and add to my bottling bucket when I
first start racking the beer in (thus I avoid stirring the beer). In the
past I've had no problem doing this. For this batch I primed with 1 cup of
honey in 1 cup of water, this was very much thicker than my corn sugar
prime. I added it to the bottling bucket and went on bottling. I'm sure
that this batch is primed unevenly, while I had three gushers all the rest
of the batch has been fine.
So is 1 cup honey to much? (I got the 1 cup from The Home Brewer's
Companion.) If 1 cup is correct may I should use 2 cups of water so it's
more soluble?
Second while were talking about the HBC. Charlie says that dry yeast is
already though its oxygen phase and does not need aeration. Could that be
true? (If it is, I could pitch with aerating and keep the wild yeasties out
of my beer. A REAL problem here in the summer.)
Third, can't the AoB be held responsible for the content of the HBD. I'm
not a lawyer but if AOL can be held responsible as a "publisher" it would
seem that the AoB could be. Been flamed sue the AoB. Just a thought.
Jeff Smith | '71 HD Sprint 350SX | snsi@win.bright.net | Barnes, WI
"What the world needs now is another folk singer,
like I need a hole in my head." Cracker
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 15:06:58 -0400
From: BEERISH@aol.com
Subject: Lauter tun screen in 1/2 bbl keg
Jim Wasielewski (glad I didn't have to SAY that) asks about mash screens for
a converted keg. My system (which works great) consists of a 8 inch stainless
screen and a tube from Stainless in Seattle. I actually purchased the kit
from Liberty Malt Supply, because contacting Stainless on the phone takes an
act of Congress. They have both weld and no-weld kits, and also kits with
brass or s/s valves. They also offer 2 piece screens which sit higher off the
bottom, but I have no experience with these. My screen sits about 1.25 inches
off the bottom, and my recirculation clears rapidly.
And since were plugging products, I would like to give three cheers for my
Brew-Tek malt mill. I haven't seen any pro\con posts in the (lengthy) thread
regarding mills. It cost me 80 bucks, (I believe the cost has gone up since
my purchase) and works great. The rollers are over 2.5 inches around and give
me an exellent crush. The usual "I am not an employee, owner ect." stuff
applies. Just a happy brewer! Don, beerish@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: 10 May 96 9:57:21
From: Geza T Szenes/IPL <Geza_T_Szenes/IPL.IPL@notes.ipl.ca>
Subject: Freezing Yeast
After reading the several short, but to the point articles on freezing yeast
earlier this year, I've decided to try it.
I have frozen 2 Wyeasts, types: 1338 (European Ale) and 2112 (California
Lager), and neither of them returned to life.
The same method of freezing was used for both approximately 1 month apart:
A 100 ml glass bottle with a self sealing screw metal lid (this is the type
small jar that sterile water is distributed to neonatal units in a hospital)
was sterilized, first by using a strong b-brite solution rinsed repeatedly,
then boiled with lid in water for about 15-30 minutes, and let it cool. After
cooling (careful not to touch the lip) 10 mls glycerol (purchased at a pharmacy
in a small plastic bottle) was added. Then I added about 80 mls of slurry from
a 1 liter starter. The remaining starter was pitched to awaiting wort, which
then produced wonderful beers.
Meanwhile;
The lid was screwed on the small jar containing the glycerin/yeast mixture, the
whole thing shaken vigorously to mix the contents for about 5 minutes.
Frozen in freezer compartment of fridge.
After about 1-2 months of dormancy, starter prepared, yeast unthawed, added to
starter.
After 48 hours no sign of life whatsoever with either yeast. Normally with a
fully swelled "Smack-Pack" (which would contain less yeast then what I froze)
when added to a starter there is sign of activity with 4-8 hours, with
fermentation underway within 12 hours.
Has anyone in the collective a repeatedly successful method of freezing yeast
that works?
Or using the above method of preparation, instead of freezing how long can I
keep the glycerin/yeast mixture in the fridge so that it is still viable? Do I
need to add glycerol at all?
TIA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:49:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Paul J. Morstad" <pmorstad@comp.uark.edu>
Subject: Re: Question on beer glasses
>
> Date: Thu, 9 May 96 12:31 PDT
> From: Woody Weaver <woody@altair.stmarys-ca.edu>
> Subject: Question on beer glasses
>
> Greetings, fellow brewers!
>
> My question is fairly simple: what are the "traditional"
> glasses/steins/mugs etc for drinking the various styles of beer? In
> particular, what are the pint glasses in a mug shape with dimples
> called/used for?
>
> I searched the Brewery for a glass FAQ but didn't find anything on
> that subject. (Some interesting reading, though. Liked the article
> on Medieval brewing.) Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>
> - --woody
>
Terminal "lurk-mode" off!
Excellent questions; something I've been interested in before I
even began homebrewing. Just thought I'd weigh in w/ my proverbial 2 cents.
Each country seems to have its own particular favored drinking vessel,
that seem to be _somewhat_ tuned to enjoying a particular style of beer
(though they're all pretty interchangeable, i.e., what beer wouldn't be
enjoyable in those big litre {or is it half-litre?} German Octoberfest
mugs? Ahem...)
Here in the States, the trend for most brewpubs/pubs seem to favor
two types: the typical straight sided pint glass, or the "dimpled mug" w/
handle that you refer to. Both are of English origin, if I'm not mistaken.
I've always referred to my dimpled mug as a "Raven's Head" mug, owing to the
English manufacturer's trademark on the bottom of the glass. More prevalent
in the pubs of England (and my particular favorite -for any style of beer)
is the "traditional" English pint glass:
_____
| |
( )
| |
| |
|_____|
(-Pardon my feeble ascii art, but hey, we all know this one, right?) =)
These sport a "Royal Seal" & proper "Imperial pint" (approx. 20 ounces?)
filling line. Someone please correct me if I don't have my facts straight
here. Anyway, I only wish more American brewpubs and bars would utilize this
type -they're just cool.
Belgium seems to have as many different types of beer drinking glasses
as they have beers; though the "wide mouth" type of glass (the kind the
Chimay lable advises to use) seems pretty prevalent. Anyone who's been there
care to comment?
As to the German types, I hesitate to comment further... I think I'm
probably due for some correction already.... ;-) So...
I'm sure many other HBD'ers will weigh in here, and I'm eager to find
out what they have to say; particularly those who may be in England -please?
Good question, Woody... Man, I'd help if someone wants to do the FAQ. Heck,
maybe I'll do some research and do one myself... maybe...
-Paul
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 May 1996 14:52:20 -0500
From: jgalley@tezcat.com (Jacob Galley)
Subject: Rye & sucanat
Guy Gregory expounds upon rye ale:
> 1. I use malted rye grain for about 15% of the total grain bill in a
> standardish IPA recipe. Less, and you wonder why you messed with it,? At
> 20%, the rye character totally dominates the beer, and I don't like it as
> well.
>
> 2. I use malted rye grain rather than flaked rye. The flaked stuff set up
> like jello in my zapap lauter tun, and generated more rye character per
> pound than grain. I feel more control with grain. The grain is sticky,
> though, so I changed my lautering system.
I use a standardish brown ale recipe. I have never bothered to obtain malted
rye, since the flakes are easy to find at the local health food store. Where's
a good source for fresh malted rye? Anyplace in Chicago?
I haven't had any problems sparging a mash with flaked rye. Do you cook it
before mashing? I don't. One time I tried using rye berries, which require
some boiling to soften, and that made a big mess in the lauter tun. Choose
flakes over berries, folks.
Also, we are using an insulated Gott cooler for the mash/lauter tun, so we don't
lose heat during the sparge. That probably helps keep it from sticking.
> 3. I use a step mash, 122F-148F-158F. I don't filter.
I use a single step mash. There doesn't seem to be any need for a protein rest.
The rye flakes produce a great rocky head, and the chill haze settles out after
a few days in the fridge.
> I get a beer with a fascinating astringency, that generally tastes more like
> beer than weizen.
What yeast are you using? If you change to a weizen yeast your rye beer will
definitely taste more like a weizen! There's a commercial rye beer from Germany
called Roggen that's brewed like a weizen (substituting rye for wheat, of
course). Try it and you'll see what I mean.
This is the basic recipe that I've used four times now:
BROWN RYE ALE
Mash at ~142^F for 90 minutes:
5 lbs Mild Ale Malt (Munton & Fison)
1.5 lbs Rye Flakes (in the bulk section of your health food store)
8 oz Cara-Munich (DeWolf-Cosyns)
3 oz Roasted Barley (DeWolf-Cosyns)
Sparge as usual.
Boil wort for 60 minutes with:
1 lb of Sucanat (evaporated cane juice, ie. natural brown sugar)
2.0 oz = 8.0 AAU Fuggles (60 min)
1.5 oz = 5.2 AAU Spalt (10 min)
Chill as usual. The original gravity comes to 1.048 (for 5 gallons).
Pitch any of the plethora of British and German ale yeasts marketed by Wyeast.
(I generally use London Ale.)
The other interesting thing about this recipe, besides the rye flakes, is the
sucanat. I got this idea from a brown ale recipe in one of Dave Miller's books,
which called for brown sugar. It's hard to describe, but the cane flavor
complements the rye-spiciness quite well!
On a tangent: Thinking about cane reminds me of another brew I made with
Russell Mast a few months ago, which we fondly named Ferment X. This potion
consisted of the following four fermentables in roughly equal proporations:
barley malt extract, wheat malt extract, wildflower honey, and sucanat. It was
balanced with some boring bittering hops, and the original gravity came to about
1.036, if I remember correctly. Well, I still have a few bottles aging. The
flavors of all the ingredients blended together surprisingly well, into a funky
little bracket.
Anyway, I highly recommend playing around with cane sugar in your brews. But
don't be cheap. Reach for the sucanat. It's got a more complex flavor because
it's just evaporated cane juice, unpurified and unprocessed.
Cheers,
Jake.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2034, 05/11/96
*************************************
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