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HOMEBREW Digest #2030
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/05/07 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #2030 Tue 07 May 1996
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Stuck sparge question (blacksab)
last call for entries and judges (Mark Taratoot)
Road Trip!! (Captain)
old hops (Andy Walsh)
Oxygen/Hops/Water (A. J. deLange)
Refrigerator for Lager ("Braam Greyling")
Kegs (Jim Nasiatka-Wylde)
In Al's defense (Matt_K)
Electronic Thermometer Web Page (Marty Tippin)
Homebrew Day/Grain mill selection (David C. Harsh)
National Homebrewers Day ("Rich Byrnes")
High Temp Washers ("Rich Byrnes")
AoB (Rob Lauriston)
Wyeast 1272 vs. 1056 in IPA; America Discovers Columbus (DEBOLT BRUCE)
Wort Chilling (Darcy Munger)
AOB etc. (Ian Smith)
Re: 100% O2 for aeration ("Tracy Aquilla")
Removal of scorched wort in keg bottom (Mike Spinelli)
AOB/100% Oxygen (RMoline930)
Belgium Lambic (sort of) ("Michel J. Brown")
Grain mill selection - addendum (David C. Harsh)
Aluminum pots (rq)
stich fermentation (rq)
hop utilization/summertime brewing/int i;/glass houses (Algis R Korzonas)
"Thanks Rob / Re: ... and a tip." (tgaskell)
One disadvantage of priming with wort (Ken Willing)
Kitchen Aid Grain Mill (John Van Huffel)
Re : Homebrew Digest #2025 (May 01, 1996) (ERVANDERSTEK)
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!
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ARCHIVES:
An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 May 1996 21:46:00 -0500
From: blacksab@siu.edu
Subject: Stuck sparge question
I had my second stuck sparge last night, and it was the same recipe that
caused the first one, a Guinness-clone. Here are the particulars:
I'm using an EasyMasher in a very well insulated budwizer keg with a Phil's
sparge arm, and a gas-fired burner for increasing and maintaining temperature.
The recipe was:
6-lbs DWC Pils Malt
2-lbs flaked barley
1-lb Roasted Barley
1. Mash in 3-gal water to stabilize at 122*F
2. 30-min. protein rest at 122*F
3. Raise temperature to 152*F in 25-min. (~1*F/min.)
4. 60-min. saccharification rest
5. Raise temperature to 168*F in 10-min. (~1.5*F/min.)
6. 15-min rest at 168*F
7. Sparge with 6.5-gal. at 168*F
The sparge took 3 or 4 hours, at one point stopping completely, and was
forced to stir the mash after thinnning it out.
This is the only recipe where this happens. All my other batches (about 30)
have gone beautifully using a ratio of 1.33-quarts/lb of grain, the sparge
taking 1-1.5-hrs.
Any ideas, or is this typical of flaked barley?
TIA,
Harlan
======================================================================
Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can
<blacksab@siu.edu> To justify God's ways to man.
Carbondale, IL
--A.E. Houseman
======================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 May 1996 21:13:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Mark Taratoot <taratoot@PEAK.ORG>
Subject: last call for entries and judges
There is still time to get your entry to the 14th Annual Oregon Homebrew
Competition and Festival or register as a judge. But hurry, the festival
is this coming weekend!
Details below:
Saturday, May 11th, 1996 From 11 am to 5 pm
The Heart of the Valley Homebrewers invite you to participate in the
fourteenth annual homebrew competition and festival, the longest running
event of its kind in Oregon. The focus of the event will be a judging of
homebrewed beer sanctioned by the American Homebrewers Association (AHA)
and the Beer Judge Certification Program (BJCP). In addition, the club
will host a festival to promote awareness and knowledge of various beer
styles, provide opportunities to share information about the homebrewing
craft, and encourage interaction between homebrewers in a social
atmosphere. This years activities will include several displays, a
raffle, food concessions, and the opportunity to meet and talk with some
of the best and most experienced homebrewers anywhere!
Entry fee is $5.00. This year there will be NO ENTRIES ACCEPTED THE DAY
OF THE COMPETITION. Entries may be mailed directly to or dropped off at
the festival site or dropped off at one of our remote pick up sites. We
are also offering on-line entry and judge registration.
Special guest speaker: The world renowned
Fred Eckhardt
Complete details, entry requirements, rules, drop-off site locations, and
directions to the festival are available at our web site:
http://www.peak.org/~taratoot/fest.html
or contact Lee Smith at (541)926-2286
or
Mark Taratoot at (taratoot@peak.org)
- --
Mark Taratoot "...though my problems are meaningless,
taratoot@peak.org that don't make them go away."
-Neil Young
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 5 May 96 23:46 EST
From: Captain <captain@iquest.net>
Subject: Road Trip!!
I will be leaving Indianapolis in a week or so for a road trip. I will be
accompanied by one of my cats, Shout. I will be taking I-90 from northern
Indiana through Toledo and Clevland Ohio, Erie PA, Buffalo Rochester
Syracuse Utica and Albany New York and into MA. After visiting in MA I'll be
dropping down through Baltimore and into Washington D.C. From there I'll be
following I-70 up through West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio and finally back
into Indiana.
I'm looking for brewpubs as well as blues bars. Anyone have any ideas?.
If anyone can supply me with info I will be eternally greatful.
Jim Kirk
captain@iquest.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 15:24:05 +1100
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh@crl.com.au>
Subject: old hops
What do oxidised hops taste like in beer?
I have seen many references to "cheesey". I can't say I've ever tasted a beer
that I would say is cheesey.
(on a different thread, autolysed, YES! - I have tasted many rubber beers -
possibly the worst beer I've ever tasted was fermented at 36C: the brewer
thought the warmer the better as it made his beer ferment quicker - like
licking a car tyre! He had it in the hottest part of his house, wrapped
in a sleeping bag, fermented in the Australian summer. YUCK!)
What I often notice in many homebrewed beers (particularly hoppy British ales)
is a kind of a burnt, cigarette-ash bitterness, that is obvious on the palate,
but also on the nose once you are used to it. I used to think it was just
Goldings hops, but the list has been extended to Fuggles, Northern Brewer and
Cascade. My current thinking is that is not so much dependent on the hop type,
but on the age of the hop and how it has been stored (although obviously some
types keep better than others). Goldings seem particularly vulnerable however.
The local homebrew shop here in Sydney is tiny, and has insufficient room to
refrigerate their hops. They do at least store the hops in O2 barrier bags, but
they are not nitrogen flushed. I notice this burnt character in many beers made
by members of our homebrew club. Since trying hops (Goldings) from another
source (stored frozen), this character has vanished from my English ales.
So I am reasonably confident that this burnt, astringent character comes from
old hops. But why are oxidised hops described as giving a cheesey taste?
Is anyone familiar with the flavour I am describing?
What is it? Oxidised beta acids or something?
How's this for a theory? Oxidised beta acids are much more soluble than alphas
and supposedly also impart bitterness to beer. When using a hop for finish
hopping which is oxidised (eg. old Goldings), the oxidised betas also provide
a greater than expected bittering level (having greater solubility). The
bitterness provided is this harsh, burnt quality I have described.
Where's cheesey come into it?
- --
Andrew Walsh CHAD Research Laboratories
Phone (61 2) 212 6333 5/57 Foveaux Street
Fax (61 2) 212 1336 Surry Hills. NSW. 2010
email awalsh@crl.com.au Australia.
PS. It's just coming into winter here now. What a shame it is the end of the
brewing season. I guess I just have to put my gear away for a few months...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 08:39:42 -0500
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Oxygen/Hops/Water
Mark Redman had asked for experiences concerning the use of medical oxygen
to aerate wort. In my own brewing I do this using a small bottle with one
of the staniless airstones. The aspects of this which surprised me most
were 1. how little oxygen is required to reach saturation (two minutes of
O2 for a 15 - 17 gal batch) and 2. how quickly the yeast consume this
oxygen (about half an hour if properly pitched). The second item is
indicative that fears of over-oxygenation are misplaced but note that
British brewers have found that oxygenation of their yeast cultures prior
to pitching causes an increase in ethly acetate in the finished product. I
don't believe that repeating oxygenation multiple times is necessary or
desireable if a sufficient quantity of yeast has been pitched in the first
place. Doing this keeps the yeast in the growth phase where there
metabolism and metabolic products are different from that of the
fermentation phase. I do exactly this when building up the culture and note
that the broth is evil tasting and smelling and has a very low pH which
confirms my British correspondents observations about acetate production.
A piece of anecdotal data: I recently gave a class on brewing water and
wanted to illustrate the effects of water chemistry on the nature of the
finished beer and so did 2 IPA's, one using my relatively soft, untreated
well water and the other using synthesized Burton water. Due to a moment's
inattention during the oxygenation process the O2 level soared to 31 mg/L
and, as I wanted ceteris paribus I went back to the other and raised its
oxygen to the same level. Both beers came out just fine (with the well
water version being the hands down favorite!).
A summary of my personal feelings on this subject: pitch a sufficient
quantity of yeast and oxygenate once to saturation or above.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Clark D. Ritchie asked about trimming hops bines. My experience (admitedly
limited) is that if you damage the growth tip you have destroed the bine
and it will not recover/resume growth. In these cases I cut it off and
train another shoot. I/m in my third year and while I have never gotten
many hop cones I have got great rhizomes and so new shoots are popping up
all the time.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Michael S. Branigan posted a water analysis and asked for comments. I need
to know your alkalinity and sulfate before I can really make
recommendations but as your water is so soft I would be surprised if the
alkalinity and sulfate were anything other than commensurately small. You
are a lucky man indeed! Do you live in Plzen?
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 14:23:14 +200
From: "Braam Greyling" <ACG@knersus.nanoteq.co.za>
Subject: Refrigerator for Lager
Hello
I wish to make my first German Lager beer. I will use a Wyeast Lager
yeast. I want to use my Refrigerator to keep the temperature low
enough for a month.
I have checked the refrigerator and on a certain setting the
temperature varies between 8-10 degrees Celcius.
Will this temperature range be allright for the yeasties ?
What are the extremes under which the lager will come out good.
Thanks
Braam Greyling Design Engineer
Nanoteq (Pty) Ltd tel. +27 (12) 665-1338
- ---- 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case ----
- ---- coincidence ????? ----
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 07:49:40 -0500
From: Jim Nasiatka-Wylde <Jwylde@interaccess.com>
Subject: Kegs
Hey Y'all!
I just inherited a 15 gal keg from my brother. It's in good shape,
but has been sitting for a couple of years. I took a cursory look
at how to open it up for cleaning and re-filling, but don't see an
apparent and/or easy way. I was wondering if someone who knows might
be able to clue me in before I bugger up the valve with a pair of
vice-grips...
It's a 15.5 gal keg encased in a black plastic shell that's labeled
Hoover Universal 304L, as well as Miller Brewing Co.
Thanx!
Jamie
All the money in the world is no match for hard work and ingenuity...
____
\ / Nothing is so strong as Gentleness; JWylde@interaccess.com
\/ nothing so gentle as real strength Nasiatka@anl.gov
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 08:49:40 est
From: Matt_K@ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: In Al's defense
Someone, I don't care who wrote:
> Al, if you are *single-handedly* holding up the technical quality >
control end at Zymurgy, then it must be your fault, eh? Quit
> sucking on your CO2 tank! Your head is going to pop! (but, where >
> EVER did you find that ball-lock-to-Putz adapter?? ;^)
C'mon people, let's quit beating on Al. No, I'm not related nor do I
buy from him. In fact I don't even live in the same country.
His posts to the diges are usually well researched and informative.
Sure, he's not always right, but he answers tons of questions and puts
out more data than most of can take credit for. Disagree with him,
fine but lets keep the flamethrowers on standby.
Matt
in Montreal
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 08:51:34 -0500
From: Marty Tippin <martyt@sky.net>
Subject: Electronic Thermometer Web Page
I've been at it again...
This time I've HTML-ized the document written by Ken Schwartz
(kennyeddy@aol.com) about how to build a cheap electronic thermometer and
refrigerator controller. The document shows how to build an electronic
thermometer for just peanuts and goes on to show how it can be integrated
into a circuit for controlling the temperature of your lagering
refrigerator. These plans are different than (and independent from) the
refrigerator controller plans by Greg Walz (walzenbrew@aol.com) which I also
converted to HTML recently. Besides Ken's great text write-up, the document
contains several .GIF images of the circuit boards and schematics.
The document is online at:
http://www.sky.net/~martyt/thermometer.html
and a link will soon be added to The Brewery (http://alpha.rollanet.org)
Let me know if there are any web-related problems with the document!
-Marty
martyt@sky.net
http://www.sky.net/~martyt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:04:49 -0400
From: dharsh@alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)
Subject: Homebrew Day/Grain mill selection
On the timing of homebrew day:
I think we all know that the AHA is primarily interested in helping
Charlie make a buck off of his hobby (this actually someone else's quote, I
forget who said it first) It's a free country and he's entitled to try.
We're fooling ourselves if we actually buy into the concept of the
altruistic AHA.
The major debate on homebrew day has been whether or not we should
encourage a novice to start brewing in May. I brewed during two summers
when I was using extracts and dry yeast. None of these were infected and I
thought I was making good beer. It wasn't as good as what I make now, but
if a homebrew supply shop proprieter had told me that I couldn't make good
beer because it was summer, I would have bought my supplies elsewhere.
It's the same problem that our local club encounters with beginners feeling
very intimidated by the attitudes of experienced brewers - beginners *are*
easily intimidated (often they haven't realized how easy brewing is)
There is a local proprieter with an attitude problem; we call him
"Homer" and he gets very little club business.
Rich and Mark (Brew Partners in Kraeusen) asked about grain mills:
Right now, you essentially have four grain mills to choose from:
Corona, PhillMill, Brewers Resource, and Schmidling. The Corona is cheap,
gives you an acceptable crush, but is a pain - the settings will "creep" on
you while used and too much flour is produced. You can still get maximum
yield, it just isn't as convenient.
Of the remaining three, all will give equivalent quality crushes -
just decide which one you like the best. Our local club members have all
varieties and I've only heard complaints about the Corona. Personally,the
PhillMill is the least expensive, can be easily motorized (replace the
crank with bolt and cut off the tip), has excellent throughput (about 2
lbs/minute by hand), and is easily adjustable (by hand during grinding).
Disclaimer: Dan Listermann is member of the Bloatarian Brewing League, the
local homebrew club. Listermann Manufacturing makes the PhillMill. No
other affiliation, etc.
Our club did some grinding and sieving at a meeting a couple of
years ago and the good mills all produced the same "exponential decay" size
distribution. I managed to get the distribution recommended by the
Practical Brewer using a ball mill for 30 minutes at 70% of the critical
rotational speed. Of course, batch ball milling isn't too practical for
homebrewing...
Dave
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
& Dave Harsh &
& Newsletter Editor for the Bloatarian Brewing League &
& Don't ask me, for I don't know. Don't tell me, for I don't care. &
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 10:18:51 EDT
From: "Rich Byrnes" <rbyrnes2.ford@e-mail.com>
Subject: National Homebrewers Day
NO ranting here, just some feedback. Our club brewed
90 gallons on Saturday at the 3 different demos, haven't
polled everyone to see what they did on their own. It
was actually chilly enough to warrent jackets/sweatshirts
all day, sheesh. Anyways, I also question the origin of
the first Saturday in May, I would actually rather have the
day Jimmy Carter signed the bill than May whatever, but
I don't remember getting a ballot for this one.
Not to be repetitive but Rob deserves it! THANK YOU! As a
newsletter editor for the past 4 years, I know whats involved
on a monthly basis, not that there's any comparison to the type
of work, it's still a big chunk of time. I appreciate the HBD
along with my first cup of coffee, some issues are better than
others, but all are interesting. The HBD has come a long way
since I first started reading it, and I have learned a LOT since
I first started dumping DME into a big pot (and now dump 25lb
bags of grains into my homemade pico system ;-)
So I say to Rob...So long and thanks for all the fish!
p.s. It's May 6th, is my beer ruined?
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen \\\|///
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o
rbyrnes2.ford@e-mail.com (_)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 10:24:05 EDT
From: "Rich Byrnes" <rbyrnes2.ford@e-mail.com>
Subject: High Temp Washers
HELP! Any recommendations for washers (Garden hose size)
to use on a re-circ pump? I'm finding that I have to
replace the standard washers every few batches due to
wear & tear. I believe it's a combination of hot acidic
wort, hot water and whatever, SO, anyone have a really
great easy to find solution (and yes I have access to both
Graingers AND McMaster Carr, but would like some advice
from someone who's already experimented before, thanks!!
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen \\\|///
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520_______o000_(.) (.)_000o
rbyrnes2.ford@e-mail.com (_)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 96 07:33 PDT
From: robtrish@mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Lauriston)
Subject: AoB
I have to echo the reservations of Kelly in Portland OR about the AoB
running the HBD.
Would the AoB be willing to set up the HBD as it's sixth branch, independant
of the others, providing the necessary support without interfering? Wasn't
the reason for the BJCP pullout because the AHA felt it was being held
accountable for something which was not under its control? Won't the HBD be
the same?
Better AoB than no HBD, but better an AoB-free HBD.
- -- Rob Lauriston in Vernon, BC.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 96 11:01:10 -0400
From: DEBOLT BRUCE <bdebolt@dow.com>
Subject: Wyeast 1272 vs. 1056 in IPA; America Discovers Columbus
The purpose of this batch was two-fold - compare Wyeast's new #1272
American Ale to #1056 American Ale and try Columbus as a bittering, flavor
and dry hop. This was inspired by all the talk of Columbus hops in IPA's
(Rogue, Anderson Valley) and Delano Dugarm's recipe posted Nov. 28, 1995.
I split a 5 gallon batch into two glass fermenters. Wyeast 1272 was
pitched into the first 2 gallons siphoned out of the kettle and Wyeast 1056
got the last 2.5 gallons with a little more trub. Both yeasts were pitched
from 3 cup starters.
Recipe:
11 lb Shrier pale 2 row
1 lb DWC Munich
0.6 lb DWC CaraVienne
0.5 lb DWC Biscuit
0.5 lb Gambrinus Honey Malt
0.25 lb DWC carapils
Mashed at 157-155F for 65 min.
Water - essentially deionized with = tsp gypsum
Hops, all pellets:
60 min - Columbus 12.5a 1.5 oz.
15 min - Columbus 0.5 oz.
Cascade 4.1a 0.25 oz.
0 min - Columbus 0.5 oz.
Dry hop one week in primary with Columbus -
0.4 oz. in #1272, 0.5 oz. in #1056
Ferment 2 weeks in primary at 65-67 F.
Starting Gravity 1.059
Final gravities: #1056 1.015, #1272 1.017
The departure from Delano's recipe was Columbus for the late and dry hop
vs. Cascade.
They've been in the bottle for 5 weeks. The 1272 version is great all
around - hop bitterness, flavor, and aroma. No grassy notes from dry
hopping. I'd have to say the hoopla over Columbus is well justified. The
1056 version is just a little too harshly bitter. Could be due to it being
a little drier (lower gravity) or the 1056 yeast is letting all the flavors
come through unscathed. In any case it should improve as it ages longer.
I don't think the slightly different finishing gravities are entirely due
to yeast strain. The 1056 was started from a fresh smack pack and probably
a little healthier than the 1272, which was started from a 4 month old 20
ml tube of "beer". I typically add a fraction of a ml from a Wyeast pack
to autoclaved wort in 20 ml screw top tubes and allow to ferment out
before storing in the fridge. Not optimum yeast technique, but it works.
Other 1272 batches I've made include stout, alt, and cream ale. They've
all turned out well, see previous posts. The stout won first place in a
recent competition.
If you like 1056 but want a little more flavor from the yeast try 1272.
Bruce DeBolt
Houston, TX
bdebolt@dow.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:10:47 -0700
From: Darcy Munger <darcym@workgrp.com>
Subject: Wort Chilling
Fellow Brewers,
OK, maybe I'm putting my wort at risk for contamination, but on my last 5
(partial extract) batches to chill my wort, I have been putting ice cubes
from my (filtered) freezer icemaker into my strainer and pouring the hot
wort over it. I add more ice as it melts, and it seems to be the easiest
way for me to chill the wort (no fancy kwipment!). My last 5 batches have
turned out very well. Has anyone else had problems with this method? The
one tip I have for this method is to shake the &$#$* out of the carboy after
it's full to mix the wort with the water so you get a good hydrometer reading.
Happy Brewing
))))))
(( - -))
)) @ @ ))
(((\ (_)/((
)))) \ O/ )))
*____))oooo____((((____oooo___________________*
| (( )))) |
| Darcy M. darcym@workgrp.com |
| Matter can be neither created nor destroyed,|
| it can only change form. |
| |
*_____________________Oooo____________________*
oooO ( )
( ) ) /
\ ( (_/
\_)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 09:41:56 -0600 (MDT)
From: Ian Smith <rela!isrs@netcom.com>
Subject: AOB etc.
What is the likelyhood of the AOB charging everyone a subscription to get
the HBD ? I really enjoy the digest but $10, $15, $20 or $25 a year ??? How
many of us would sign up ?
Ian Smith
isrs@rela.uucp.netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 96 11:56:13 CDT
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: Re: 100% O2 for aeration
In Digest #2028
Mark Redman <brewman@vivid.net> wrote:
>Does anybody using 100% O2 vary the amount of oxygenation depending on
>the style, S.G., and fermenting temp?
[snip]
>Currently I pre-oxygenate by running O2 into the carboy until the head-
>space fills with foam, then repeat the process about 3 to 4 times over
>the next several hours. Is this more than necessary?
Unless you're using a strain which has an extremely high oxygen
'requirement' (like Ringwood), this is probably just a waste of 02. Most
('normal') yeast strains respond favorably to 02 levels well below
saturation and increasing the [02] above this point will not provide any
additional benefit. In fact, over-aeration can work against you. For
example, diacetyl is produced by the non-enzymatic oxidation of
alpha-acetolactate and dissolved oxygen is known to promote this reaction.
Hence, over-aeration can be detrimental to beer flavor by promoting
excessive diacetyl formation. That's fine if you want diacetyl, but most
beers taste better without it.
>I know if I was fermenting a doppelbock at 50 degrees I would oxygenate the
>hell out of the wort with no worry,
Doppelbock is an example of a beer style that can be quite susceptible to
the detrimental effects of over-aeration. Not only can oxygen increase
diacetyl, it invariably increases ester production as well. Ester production
is the result of yeast reproductive activities. As esters tend to be
naturally increased in high-gravity beers, and esters are generally seen as
being highly undesirable in bocks, I try to avoid over-aeration of bocks (or
any high-gravity beer in which esters are not a part of the desired flavor
profile). It's probably better to over-pitch bocks and keep the aeration to
a minimum (or even avoid it completely!), so as to avoid excessive growth of
the yeast and the excretion of esters which naturally accompanies this
reproductive activity.
>but I'm guessing that normal gravity ales could probably be happy with only
>one long burst of O2; normal gravity lagers
>with 2 to 3 bursts of O2 and high gravity lagers even more.
When using pure 02 and an air-stone diffuser, you only need to oxygenate the
wort for a few minutes to reach saturation. Additional 'bursts' will likely
just waste gas and may even produce some undesirable effects (_unless_
you're using a strain like Ringwood).
Tracy
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 May 96 11:47:26 edt
From: paa3983@dpsc.dla.mil (Mike Spinelli)
Subject: Removal of scorched wort in keg bottom
HBDers,
Can someone tell me how to safely remove scorched wort in the bottom
of my SS keg?
thanks,
Mike in Cherry Hill NJ
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 12:14:57 -0400
From: RMoline930@aol.com
Subject: AOB/100% Oxygen
As a long time lurker, and one who has benefited from the collective wisdom
of the HBD since '88 or '89 in my transition from no knowledge of brewing to
enough now to be dangerous, I wish to salute Rob for all he has done for us.
I think that the AOB is a natural for running the HBD, even though I
understand many of your misgivings. Only time will tell.
I can honestly state that the HBD has been my main source of brewing info as
I transited from Homebrewer to Head Brewer, and I thank all of you for your
unwitting assistance.
In reference to Mark Redman's question on O2 :
I use 100 % oxygen on all brews, once temps are below 68 F, whetehr it is a
low gravity or high with good results.
Cheers!
Rob Moline
HB
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Ks.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 10:13:30 +0000
From: "Michel J. Brown" <mjbrown@teleport.com>
Subject: Belgium Lambic (sort of)
My experience with Kreik have hown me that you need to *really* age
the stuff a _VERY_ long time indeed! Upwards of 12 months in most
cases (no pun intended). I make my Kreik with 10 lbs of red pie
cherries (sans stones), and use either 7lbs of 50/50 wheat/malt
extract, or 10 lbs of 6 row Klages, or 8 lbs of 2 row Bavarian
Pilsner. I find old hops of the Saaz, or Hallertauer work best (1.5
oz per 5 gal US) with 0.5 oz Cascades dry hopped in the secondary. To
this, I also add 1 tbs of lactobacillus culture (gotten from health
food stores for $5 a quart) after primary, but before secondary
racking. This reults in the appropriate `tang' found in true Lambic.
Hope you find this helpful, God Bless, ILBCNU, and WASSAILS!
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 1996 13:42:38 -0400
From: dharsh@alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)
Subject: Grain mill selection - addendum
I said in an earlier post that our club tested "all" of the mills a couple
of years ago. The Brewers Resource mill didn't exist at that time, the
three mills tested were the PhillMill, the Glatt, and the Schmidling.
I'd be willing to bet that the BR mill would be similar to the three
tested. Any single pass mill is almost guaranteed to give the same sort of
size distribution.
Dave
*************************************************
* Dr. David C. Harsh *
* Department of Chemical Engineering *
* University of Cincinnati *
* Cincinnati, OH 45221-0171 *
* Voice (513) 556-2659 Fax (513) 556-3473 *
*************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 May 96 21:26:36
From: rq%mailhost@lysator.liu.se
Subject: Aluminum pots
I just got another pot, for boiling the wort. It was so cheap, =0D
I couldn't resist buying it. The only problem is: it's made =0D
of aluminum. I've heard the some of the aluminum might=0D
dissolve is the wort, and possibly cause some disease.=0D
I'd appreciate any comments.=0D
=0D
Erik R=F6nnqvist, Link=F6ping Institute of Technology, Sweden=0D
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 May 96 21:43:57
From: rq%mailhost@lysator.liu.se
Subject: stich fermentation
I've just made my first pilsner two days ago.=0D
There are no evident signs of fermentation yet. =0D
Does it normally take this long for it to start?=0D
I've heard you shold let it be in room temperature=0D
until it starts fermenting, but I've also heard it =0D
should be put in the fridge right after cooling. =0D
Advantages/disadvantages of the above methods??=0D
Also, I didn't make a starter. I used Wyeast Bohemian=0D
Lager yeast. I've brewed a lot of ales before, and =0D
always used Wyeast. Never made a starter, and the=0D
beer has always started fermenting very quickly. =0D
I know lager yeast is slower than ale yeast, but=0D
should it be this slow????????=0D
Any comments would be appreciated.=0D
=0D
Erik R=F6nnqvist=0D
=0D
Link=F6ping Institute of Technology, Sweden=
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 96 15:05:47 CDT
From: korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: hop utilization/summertime brewing/int i;/glass houses
Bob writes:
>I agree it was WAY underhopped, but how did you get 28 IBUs--and that
I don't know where you got your formula from, but I used Rager's formulas
from the 1990 Hops Special Issue of Zymurgy. Here's the math all filled in:
(1.130 - 1.050)
BA = --------------- = 0.4
0.2
0.30 * 0.135 * 7462 302.21
IBUs = ------------------- = ------ = 28.78
1.5 * 1.4 * 5 10.5
I think I may have rounded a little differently the first time so I got
something like 28.4 which I rounded down to 28 for the post.
***
Since I started this mess, I might as well summarize and perhaps that
will put an end to it.
Summertime brewing is more difficult in many parts of the world than brewing
the rest of the year because:
1. the air is full of wild yeasts and bacteria and large starters
are virtually mandatory (filtered air may be needed in some areas),
2. it's hot and brewing indoors can put a strain on your a/c if
you've got it (it will put a strain on all living inhabitants
if you don't), and
3. it's hot and you may need to do something like use a fridge or
evaporative cooling (if it's not too humid to work where you are)
to get reasonable fermentation temperatures.
Because of these reasons and the complexity they add to brewing, I feel that
it is best to concentrate our efforts of finding new brewers in the fall
rather than the spring. For the record, I don't turn away customers, many
still brew in the summer (I do too, now that I've gotten a filtered aeration
system) and if a customer is dead set on brewing despite my warnings, I let
them go ahead and start. I am aware that in some parts of the world these
precautions are necessary year round and in other parts, never a problem.
***
I'm surprised that only one person noticed I forgot "int i;" I can hear all
of you C-programmers slapping yourselves in the forehead like I did.
***
Martin writes:
>Remember that thing about glass houses and throwing stones? I would just
>like to point out that whoever reviewed the recent Zymurgy article on
>counterflow wort chillers left it so riddled with typo's, and computational
>errors that it was nearly worthless. The persons responsible for reviewing
>that piece clearly did a great disservice to the authors, the magazine, and
>to its readers.
I have to take some of the responsibility for that one... but if I recall
correctly, those formulas were not in the original text I reviewed and
possibly not even in the final proofs I also review. There were a lot of
last-minute changes to this particular article and I believe that the
formulas were added very late in the game. Nonetheless, I appologize to
the authors, Zymurgy and all of it's readers (well, the fraction that read
HBD) for my part in letting that slip through.
>Al, if you are *single-handedly* holding up the technical quality control end
>at Zymurgy, then it must be your fault, eh? Quit sucking on your CO2 tank!
>Your head is going to pop! (but, where EVER did you find that
>ball-lock-to-Putz adapter?? ;^)
I base my assertion on the number of errors that used to be published
before I started helping out. The number of errors in the Special Issue
on German, British and American brewing was what drove me to volunteer
to help out the magazine and I think that most will agree that the quality
of the magazine has increased an order of magnitude since I've joined.
I must admit that a new Managing Editor, Dena Nishek, started at the same
time as I did and there may have been other reasons for the errors making
it into the magazine (perhaps the Technical Edtors were not given enough
time to review articles, perhaps not all articles were reviewed or perhaps
the reviewers' comments were not incorporated into the articles). In
retrospect, yes, perhaps I have given myself too much credit for the
improvement of Zymurgy, but we all do what we can to further homebrewing,
right?
Now speaking of glass houses Martin, perhaps you should be spending less
time checking the work of Zymurgy Technical Editors and more time running
those hop utilization experiments? What's it been a year? Or is it two? ;^)
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@pubs.att.com
Nothing worth copyrighting today...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 96 15:12:15 EDT
From: tgaskell@e3sa.elab.syr.ge.com
Subject: "Thanks Rob / Re: ... and a tip."
First and foremost, Rob, my thanks for a passioned yet impartial
forum for the free (both kinds) exchange of ideas. The good
information I have received I cannot begin to repay, that is
unless you stop by for a brew. Because of the HBD, I have begun
to turn out beers that may actually be worth the drive.
Thanks Rob.
\_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_ \_
In HBD #2027, Guy Gregory wrote:
>A tip:
<after copious bits of snipping>
>I'm lagering in a old corny keg.
>Brew magazine has a cockamamie contraption for attaching an
>airlock involving a whole bunch of stuff. [But I did it my
>way], and the airlock is bubbling away happily.
>I am not light the 40 bucks or so for the stuff they advised.
>Anybody have any better ideas?
You want better, ask someone else.
You want cheap and simple, you've come to the right guy.
I bought a gas-in (pinlock) fitting for $4. I did not even buy
the hose barb or nut that attaches to the fitting. I took a
length of clear vinyl tubing and slid it over the threaded flare
fitting on the gas connector. I submerged the other end of the
tubing in a jar (it was my son's fire fly trap from last summer)
half filled with XXX (I don't want to start that thread again).
It has been said that fridges are like shopping malls to the
juvenile delinquent microbes, they hang out there in droves.
A shot of bleach in the XXX may help (as long as the XXX
does NOT contain ammonia), like if the police show up to help
the rent-a-cops.
Another precaution if you decide to use this procedure is that
the liquid in the jar is liable to be pulled into the keg if the
wort has not reached fridge temp before hooking up the modified
blowoff hose. Make sure that temps have stabilized and/or that
fermentation is going strong before you use this method.
Anyone else want to jump into the fray?
Tom Gaskell Hog Heaven Homebrewery Clayville, NY, USA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 May 1996 07:52:55 +1000 (EST)
From: Ken Willing <kwilling@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Subject: One disadvantage of priming with wort
Priming with malt extract/ wort/ gyle is of course appealing, but Dave
Miller, for one, notes that it has disadvantages. As I recall, his main
concern is the fact that in a maltose(etc.)-based bottle fermentation, the
CO2 is trapped and can't scrub out esters which always form in rather high
concentration (the great majority of which get carried off, in an open
fermentation). This doesn't happen with glucose priming. Miller says he
has done back-to-back experiments priming with wort and priming with
glucose, and says that the wort-primed beers turned out (and I quote him
approximately): "in all cases too estery for the intended style".
I've now tried, several times, priming with only partly (e.g. 33%) malt
extract and the rest glucose. In a couple of experiments like Miller's, the
partially wort-primed beers are -- even at this low concentration of malt
used for priming -- quite clearly more estery than the glucose-only ones. I
wonder if anyone else has done this kind of testing. I think I'll stick
with using a small fraction of wort in my priming solution, because I like
the idea of its soaking up oxygen in the bottle.. but only a fairly small
fraction.
Ken Willing
Sydney, Australia kwilling@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 May 96 19:01:08 -0400
From: John Van Huffel <van@dnaco.net>
Subject: Kitchen Aid Grain Mill
Has anyone had any luck with the grain-mill attachment for the Kitchen
Aid Mixer? I have access to one, if I forgive a small debt, and it would
sure beat hand-cranking a phils-mill!
TIA
Van
BTW, Thanks to Rob for all he's done for our community!
______________________________________________________________
JOHN Van HUFFEL 1st Lt, USAF <van@dnaco.net>/<JVanHuff@afit.af.mil>
Air Force Institute of Technology -- <http://www.dnaco.net/~van>
______________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 May 1996 19:12:12 -0500 (CDT)
From: ERVANDERSTEK@ualr.edu
Subject: Re : Homebrew Digest #2025 (May 01, 1996)
I NO LONGER HAVE ACCESS TO THIS ACCOUNT, SO PLEASE UNSUBSCIRBE ME.
THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO!!!
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2030, 05/07/96
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