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HOMEBREW Digest #2042
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/05/21 PDT
Homebrew Digest Tuesday, 21 May 1996 Number 2042
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
Advertising ("Michael T. Bell")
Sources for Foam (Marty Tippin)
Stewards Help HBCs Look Good (Fred Hardy)
RE: All grain; Wort Chillers ("Michael A. Genito")
[none] (Mark Bailey)
Homebrew Diges (".")
Grist Sizes, the good, the bad.... (Charlie Scandrett)
Gas Leaks and Glasses (usbscrhc@ibmmail.com)
brewpubs in Pittsburgh? (Allan Rubinoff)
Lagering cooler (Narvaez Ronald)
Rant/Level/HBRCP (RUSt1d?)
Re: Heart of the Hops (hollen@vigra.com)
Priming with Extract (Kyle R Roberson)
New grain mill (Michael Higuchi)
cancel ("BARRON, GRAHAM LARS")
Re: Priming w/wort or dextrose: Crabtree (Algis R Korzonas)
Re: Primings (Jeff Frane)
RE: dextrose priming and esters (Tracy Aquilla)
[none] (The Mercenary Hacker)
BreWater 2.0 (KennyEddy@aol.com)
Finding Ferm Foam (KennyEddy@aol.com)
[none] (George De Piro)
LAGER REFRIGERATORS ("Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM")
the last ten percent (BJFABB@ccmail.monsanto.com)
HOMEBREW DIGEST MOVED (Shawn Steele)
Rye / kegging (Darrin Pertschi)
Carbonates and dark grains/categories/FWH/strainers and HSA (Algis R Korzonas)
O2 Bags and Sealers (Mark Garetz)
Causes of haze in rye/wheat beers (George De Piro)
Causes of stuck runoff/haze in rye & wheat beers (George De Piro)
Beer Dinners & mikehu ("Decker, Robin E.")
Old Dominion Millenium (Ron Raike)
Bishop's Finger, Spam (Russell Mast)
Yeast ranching for the frugal novice (Woody Weaver)
calibrating Hunter temperature controller (Steven Klafka)
stupid minikeg tricks ("SPEAKER.CURTIS")
Imperial Pints/ No Fridge Control Control (Dave Hinkle)
Wort Cooling/sparge level/crystal in mash?/ads/slow grains/ppg/hop hearts (Algis R Korzonas)
Funky Taste (Chris)
Requesting info on EKU beer (Chris Cooper)
Hose length/carbonation (Jay Reeves)
1st Iowa City Homebrew Classic (Wolfe@act.org)
Getting Started (MURR@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu)
Various Topics (Rob Moline)
RE: Rye Beers (Joe Rolfe)
Rye problems (Dan Aleksandrowicz)
Another Hunter Airstat problem (Jim Griggers)
Sweed gale seeds (rq@lysator.liu.se)
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESSES
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Michael T. Bell" <mikeb@flash.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 07:23:20 -0500
Subject: Advertising
Gregory, Guy J. writes in HBD#2041:
> Well, sir, as much as I find myself agreeing with you on other topics, I
> must disagree here. I submit that doofus posts and intrusive goofy
> advertising is part of the price of freedom in this venue. How do you know
> you want to subscribe if you can't download and lurk for a while? If an
> exclusive club is what HBD wants, this place will quickly lose both quality
> and me. Judging from your previous posts, I think after reflection, you
> would concur.
> I can't stop furniture stores from advertising during hockey games, either.
Imagine downloading the HBD every morning to find that every
other post is an ad for a malt mill or something of the such. Or
how about the HOMEBREW DIGEST: brought to you by BUDMILLOORS.
I don't think many of us would stick around for very long at all.
Advertising must not be allowed on this forum.
-mtb
beer is good food
Michael T. Bell
E- mail: mikeb@flash.net
Home: 817.468.8849
Fax: 817.468.7121
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Marty Tippin <martyt@sky.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 07:53:03 -0500
Subject: Sources for Foam
In HBD #2041, Steve Jackson asks about sources for the foam to build Ken
Schwartz's (kennyeddy@aol.com) fermentation chiller...
Check your yellow pages for insulation suppliers or contractors - several
local (Kansas City) companies sell various types of foam (beaded (white) or
extruded (blue or pink)) and will usually cut it to size for you (like
4'x8'x2") - the extruded stuff is expensive; something like $32 for a 2"
sheet. Usually the foam is in huge blocks when they get it and they use a
hot wire to slice it into sheets. They may have a minimum order, so you
might have to find another brewing buddy to go in with you.
I managed to get my hands on some for free the other day - my other hobby is
building and flying radio control airplanes, and we use the white foam for
making wings; a buddy bought some that wasn't up to spec for wing making,
but works great for a chiller. It was 3" thick which is another 50%
insulation... I've got a batch going in it now, and it works great.
For cutting the stuff, you can make your own hotwire tool - basically, you
need a 12VAC, 2A+ transformer and some wire - thin gauge copper will
probably work; the one I use is for cutting wings and has a nichrome wire.
Make a "bow" from some wood and stretch the wire between it, fire up the
transformer and hook it to the wire. It'll heat up in nothing flat and
slice the foam like butter. Use two pieces of smooth-edge wood, held onto
the foam with a couple of nails, to guide the cutting and make a smooth
edge. Be careful with the wire as it gets mighty hot...
For temperature control, I built one of Ken's temperature controllers, and
it's switching a 12VDC muffin fan instead of the fridge. The thing works
absolutely great. Plus it'll only cost about $30 to make one (I've made two
so far - one for the fridge plus one for the chiller)...
I picked up a lot of the parts for the controller and lots of other nifty
stuff from Surplus Center in Lincoln, NE - they've got a nifty catalog full
of lots of stuff you don't care about as well as some stuff you probably do
- the number is 800-388-3407. I've ordered a few times and had great service.
The plans for Ken's controller are on my homepage (I did the HTML work...) -
URL is below... I've also linked to the fermentation chiller page from my
homepage.
-Marty
martyt@sky.net
http://www.sky.net/~martyt - Marty's Homebrew Gadgets Page
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Fred Hardy <fcmbh@access.digex.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:55:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Stewards Help HBCs Look Good
OK, I admit I was wrong about stewards playing a roll in auditing
of judge's score sheets. Two things have made me a believer. One
was the Spirit of Free Beer competition which I judged in last
Saturday, and the other was my 1st round AHA NHC score sheets.
Spirit of Free Beer is a Washington, DC, area HBC sponsored by
BURP. It is always a class act, and this year was no exception.
They had the stewards look over the score sheets for correctness,
completeness, etc. On several occasions the steward for my flight
caught math errors, failure to check experience level, and the
like (of course, I made no mistakes :-)). It did not change the
judges' perceptions or the ranking of the winners, but it did
help the organizers to convey to the entrants that SoFB is a
quality competition. Perception is important, as I had reinforced
by my score sheets from the AHA NHC.
I judged in the 1st round AHA NHC, but in a region other than
where my entries were judged. I was part of a well run
competition in Lancaster, PA. My entries went to Niceville, FL.
At SoFB I was talking with Rhett Rebold who also sent his entries
to FL. Rhett said he received one less set of score sheets than
he had entries, and wondered where, or who got the other one. I
hadn't gotten my scores by then, but they had arrived and were
waiting in Saturday's mail. Maybe I got Rhett's missing score
sheet, since I got one more set of score sheets than I had
entries. Ah, perceptions.
The same week my Munich dunkel entry took BoS at the Bluebonnet
Brewoff it scored either a 23.5 or a 27.5 in the FL AHA NHC. I
say either, since I entered one dunkel, but got score sheets for
two separate entries. I don't know if one is mine, but they both
aren't. For all I know, mine was attributed to someone else who
is now preparing their dunkel to go to the 2nd round. Who knows?
I also entered 3 meads in the 25 - Traditional Mead and Braggot
category. One was a traditional mead and 2 were braggot - one
sparkling and one still. The cover sheets were very informative.
Two had no category number, the other had "MEAD" on the category
number line. All three had "25" on the Category Letter line. Two
showed "MEAD" on the Subcategory Name line, the other left it
blank. Which ones were Braggot?
Four judges judged these entries: one was BJCP recognized, two
were novice, and the third checked the open space between
Experienced (but not in BJCP) and Other. Not one of the score
sheets mentioned malt. Did the organizers list the braggots as
such, or did the judges think they were traditional mead? On the
entry which scored a 13, Craig Addison (novice) wrote in large,
shaky block print (looked like a second grader's handwriting)
"CALL THE PARAMEDICS NEEDS CPR." Al Bourg, the one between
Experienced and Other, wrote "Read a few books on mead." I want
to thank these gentlemen for their helpful hints.
Another mead entry scored a 22.5. Kelly Craig (novice) commented,
"Sorry, but I don't think I would drink this beer." The best
scoring entry got a 31.5. Kelly liked this one, because the
comment was, "Wouldn't mind drinking this beer." Thanks Kelly,
but it was a mead.
Not one of the 12 score sheets had a subcategory letter or name.
Score sheets and cover sheets only indicated category 25 - mead.
The comments and scribbles leave the impression that these judges
were in the bag, and were looking for rocket fuel that had
obvious honey. I also suspect the organizers were more novices
than my friend Kelly. FWIW, one of my entries had never been
entered in competition. Two have won ribbons in other
competitions, and one of the braggots took 1st in the Traditional
Mead and Braggot category at this year's TRASH HBC. I suspect it
was either the 13 or the 22.5, but who knows?
Next year I will take Al Bourg's advice, and instead of wasting $24 -
$27 on entering meads in the AHA NHC, I'll spend the money on mead books.
A steward check will not eliminate tipsy and/or unqualified judges, or
incompetent organizers, but it could at least have gotten the entries
correctly identified. I had two entries go on to the AHA NHC 2nd round,
but instead of feeling good about it, I am furious over the results. I am
not even sure the entries that advanced are mine. Needless to say, this
year the Capitol District Open will instruct stewards and judges that
stewards will perform sanity checks on all score sheets. I am a believer!
==============================================================================
We must invent the future, else it will | <Fred Hardy>
happen to us and we will not like it. |
[Stafford Beer, "Platform for Change"] | email: fcmbh@access.digex.net
==============================================================================
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Michael A. Genito" <genitom@nyslgti.gen.ny.us>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:02:22 -0400
Subject: RE: All grain; Wort Chillers
In response to some recent posting on newbie all grain and wort chillers, I
started all grain with no extra equipment other than what I had for extract
brews, except that I borrowed a second 20qt pot, and a stainless steel
screen cut from a small strainer, rolled, and placed in the spigot of a
bottling bucket.
To start all grain, make a first easy batch. Buy 8 lbs crushed fully
modified 2 row grain (British or American), 1/2 lb crushed crystal, 2 ozs
hops (your choice, I would pick Hallertauer), and a package of dry yeast.
Heat 2 1/2 to 3 gals water to 165-170F, add your grains, stir and let sit
for one hour, stirring every 15 mins. The temp will hold around 150-160F,
don't worry about adding heat. In the meantime, heat another 4 gals water
just to a boil in another 20 qt pot. When the one hour has passed, pour some
of the hot water into your bottling, add the mashed grains, and continue
adding the rest of the hot water. Catch the outflow into a pot (you can use
the mash pot if you rinse it out first). When the first put is 3/4 full,
catch the rest in the second pot (your previous hot water pot). Now commence
the boil, and add the hops as you would with extract. For cooling, I chose
to place both pots in a bathtub of ice water, stirring each pot until the
temp went below 80F. When cooled, place it in your fermenter and add yeast
as with extract. All of the above adds one other thing - more fun and more
time (total time 3-4 hours).
I now chill my wort with a homemade 1/2 inch immersion coil. The coil was
given, and since it was free, it cost me nothing. The immediate outflow is
near boiling, but rapidly decreases. I then decrease the water flow until
the outflow temp is as hot as I can get it (remember, it is the heat
transfer that counts). Stirring, I can cool 5 gals wort well within 15 mins.
Good luck, fear not, and just relax. It becomes an art and a science, and
lots of fun. I still do some extracts when I don't have the time, and a
partial extract is even better with minimal time addition.
Michael A. Genito, City Comptroller
City of Rye, 1051 Boston Post Road, Rye, NY 10580 USA
TEL:(914)967-7302/FAX:(914)967-4604
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Mark Bailey <kd4d@saltmine.radix.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:19:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [none]
Date: Fri, 17 May 96 15:34:00 PDT
From: "Gregory, Guy J." <GGRE461@eroerm1.ecy.wa.gov>
Subject: advertising and rye.
Guy Gregpry posts, in HBD 2040:
>Al Korzonas posts, in HBD 2039:
>>I suggest that the HBD software be modified so that non-subscribers
>>cannot post. [...]
I think this is an excellent idea. It is very on other
mailing lists and digests.
>Well, sir, as much as I find myself agreeing with you on other topics, I
>must disagree here. I submit that doofus posts and intrusive goofy
>advertising is part of the price of freedom in this venue.
I don't think we'll suffer from a lack of doofus posts and intrusive
goofy advertising from our subscribers. :-)
>How do you know
>you want to subscribe if you can't download and lurk for a while?
Downloading and lurking are two activities that are not affected by blocking
posts from non-subscribers.
>If an
>exclusive club is what HBD wants, this place will quickly lose both
>quality
>and me. [...]
Subscribing is easy...all you need is an e-mail address and a message
to the janitor. This doesn't look like an exclusive club to me.
Mark Bailey, kd4d@radix.net
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "." <veriinc.veripjt@memo.volvo.se>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:43:16 +0200
Subject: Homebrew Diges
- - --- Received from VERIINC.VERIPJT 201-391-2888 96-05-20 07:43
-> IN=homebrew(a)hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
Cancel my sub-scription!!!!!!!!!
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Charlie Scandrett <merino@cynergy.com.au>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:37:19 +1000
Subject: Grist Sizes, the good, the bad....
Scroll down unless you are interested in the finer points of crushing sizes,
perhaps we are crushing bores?
I wrote,
CS> I am interested in a scientific explanation of the non-parallel
CS>roller "feature", crushing some grains more lightly than others makes little
CS>sense to me?
And Jack replied
JS>Well, the key to the mystery lies in that obscure art of statistics.
It is not a mystery and this is an false appeal to esoteric authority.
JS>What the sieve tests do is provide a measure of the statistical
>distribution of particle size. It does not measure how hard an
>individual grain is squeezed.
In logic, this is a red herring as fineness of crushing is related to the
compression and shear, the sieves obviously don't measure the "hardness of
crush" but it's results!
JS>As long as all the grains are squeezed hard enough to break the
>endosperm loose, the only effect of squeezing some of them harder
>is to incrase the quantity of grist toward the finer end of the
>distrubution.
And it follows that the only result of squeezing different grains different
ammounts is to give a more uneven crush.
>So if we start with a mill that squeezes the grain well enough to
>satisfy thousands of happy homebrewers, viz., the Pre-adjusted
>MM,
This fails the test of relevance, it is another red herring. I did not ask a
question about the popularity of the MM.
JS>and then tighten up one end of the spacing to about the
>same as the closest spacing on a multi-stage mill, guess what
>happens? The overall distrubution starts to look like it went through a
>multi-stage roller mill. Run it through again or make the rollers
>longer and it gets even closer.
This does not follow, it is an unsupported assertion. The object of six
roller mills is *evenness* of crush. All the ones I have read about or stuck
my nose into have vibrating inclined sieves or centrifical sieves after
each nip to let the fines fall directly into the grist hopper and to remove
the husks, delivering coarse material for further crushing. This has two
effects; 1/It prevents the fine flour and grits interfering with further
crushing, and 2/Protects the husks and fines from further crushing. If the
grist is too fine, seperation at lautering is difficult and slow.
If Jack were right, brewers would simply crush half the grist one setting
and the other half at another setting and save themselves a lot of money in
multi-stage mills!
The other object is to allow endosperm (starchy) flour only and to crush the
harder outer pericarp, testa and aleurone layers of the malt into grits, not
flour. These outer layers contain almost all phenols and lipids, high
concentrations of these extracted from flour are undesirable. This even
crushing of outer layers is difficult because they are fused to the husk. To
perform this task De Clerck recommends that "Great care must be taken in
fitting the rolls, so that they are set exactly parallel." Malting and
Brewing Science says "there should be no uncrushed kernels, the endosperm
particles should be reasonably uniform in size, and the majority of husks
should be entire".
One commercial brewer told me that with well modified malt he would ideally
like a complete husk and the rest of the corn in 8 to 10 equal pieces.
Fineness wasn't important to him, he was trying to keep phenol and lipid
extraction down. However he, like the rest of us, has to live with flour and
uneven crushing.
However I know the MM doesn't crush so evenly that it must be set out of
parallel to aproximate the *best* a six roller with grading sieves can do!
Jack is claiming a better, more even crush set parallel than high tech mills
can do, so he has to downgrade it?? Setting out of parallel gives a more
uneven crush!
JS>BUT! Let me again point out that just because Megabrewers need
JS>this sort of grist, there is no reason to assume that homebrewers do.
JS>The many happy fixed MM users would indicate just the opposite.
Yes, yes. Crush coarse and accept *some* unevenness and hang the extraction!
You will make a better and easier beer. Setting your maltmill out of
parallel may have a placebo effect on your beer quality, but I am
unconvinced of it's technical merit!
Now if it had 300mm diameter rollers set parallel and six inches long, I'd
motorise it for a micro!
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
"Good humour" suggests a generosity of spirit, it does not include sarcasm.
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: usbscrhc@ibmmail.com
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:59:18 EDT
Subject: Gas Leaks and Glasses
Group,
Does anyone use anything in addition to the o-ring to seal the top of the
corny kegs? I'm thinking there might be some food grade viscous stuff (grease
of sorts???) to help this seal. I have a couple kegs that just don't have a
perfect fit and it takes more effort than necessary to get the seal....
I played for about 20 minutes this morning just to make sure I'm carbonated
for this afternoon, and I don't like sitting at work with my hands smelling
like brew!! (ok, I do like it) And where do you get replacement o-rings, while
I'm at it??Thanks!
Regarding glasses. I have a couple of those plastic, liquid-filled ones that
really do an outstanding job of keeping cold for things like washing the car
or playing with the dog. I also have a freezer full of mugs...One is crystal,
peuter top, engraved in Germany at Oktoberfest. It is the love of my life -
pathetic, I know - but thought I'd mention it to let everyone know what to get
a kegging HB'er for a gift!
Al K. - had some trouble with your address. Did you get my note and/or my
snail mail??
Thanks to Ken for his response about my water. He says it's basically perfect.
Baltimore city tap water can now be yours for the low, low price of....
Howard - Fell's Pt., MD
usbscrhc@ibmmail.com
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Allan Rubinoff <allan_rubinoff@mathworks.com>
Date: 20 May 1996 10:01:14 -0400
Subject: brewpubs in Pittsburgh?
I will be in Pittsburgh over Memorial Day weekend and would like to check out
a brewpub or two. If anybody has recommendations, please send me e-mail.
Thanks,
Allan Rubinoff
rubinoff@mathworks.com
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Narvaez Ronald <RNarvaez@phs.org>
Date: Mon, 20 May 96 08:19:00 PDT
Subject: Lagering cooler
A few months ago I had some instructions on how to make a Lagering
refrigerator using Styrofoam, a computer fan and a block of Ice. I had a
hard drive crash on my computer and lost most of my important data. I
would like to do a couple lagers that I have but I do not have the room
or the means to set up a full sized lagering refrigerator. If anybody has
a copy of these instructions or can point me to a place where I can get
them I would greatly appreciate it.
Ronald Narvaez
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@swamp.li.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:13:30 -0400
Subject: Rant/Level/HBRCP
Oh boy! More info on plaid brewing. I'm learning a lot now. Not. Save it.
Posts that are directed at a single person should be sent directly to them.
Spare the rest of us. As in:
>Jack, why don't you do us all a favor and take your childish
(don't listen Jack.)
(Wayne McCorkle - Lauter tun water level)
When sparging, you want to keep the water level above the grain bed.
This helps the water to even distribute itself over the bed. If the
water level is below the grain bed you could induce channeling (where
the water cuts a path, rather then flowing evenly through the grain bed).
If you allow the water level to fall too far below the surface of the
bed, you could cause the mash to compact and thus stick.
A note on homebrew programs... Mine. I wrote one in Foxpro. I call it the
Homebrew Recipe Calculator. I can't give it an unbiased review, will you?
Compute recipes, maintain databases on grains, hops, yeast, styles,
many different calculators, print labels, logs, and worksheets. It can be
downloaded at: http://www.netaxs.com/people/vectorsys/index.html. Let me
know what you think.
**************************
** rust1d@li.com **
** John Nicholas Varady ** <-- Now Engaged.
** Eve Courtney Hoyt **
**************************
http://www.netaxs.com/people/vectorsys/index.html
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: hollen@vigra.com
Date: Mon, 20 May 96 08:09:08 PDT
Subject: Re: Heart of the Hops
>>>>> "Stan" == Stanley A White/620664/PPI/EKC <Stanley> writes:
Stan> Okay, the wife asked a stumper. Saw the Miller beer ad and
Stan> asked" if the "heart of the hop" is so good, why aren't you
Stan> using it" in my homebrews.
Stan> So, what's "the heart of the hop"???? (and do they have other
Stan> internal organs of distinction??)
As far as I know and anyone with whom I have discussed this, it is
advert bullshit. If you strip off all the leaves you are left with a
stem. Unless they are talking about stripping off the lupulen glands
from each of base of the leaves.
dion
- - --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x164 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Sr. Software Engineer - Vigra Div. of Visicom Labs San Diego, California
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Kyle R Roberson <roberson@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:20:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Priming with Extract
Several posters have mentioned some of the problems associated
with priming with extract (or benefits if you like esters). The
famous protein ring around the bottle can also happen to you.
Here are some tips that work for me:
First level- Boil extract for 10 minutes, cool covered in frige over night
after cooling in sink. Carefully rack off sediment. Next day, boil
10 minutes to sanitize, cool in sink, add to bottling bucket.
Second level- Boil extract for 10-15 minutes, cool covered in sink. Pitch
with fresh yeast. Gradually lower temperature as the stuff comes to high
krausen. Pitch, into bottling bucket or keg. You have to make allowance
for the sugar eaten by the yeast before the keg is bunged or bottles
are sealed. (That is: take the SG to know how much to add.)
In both cases, the hot and cold break are settled out before bunging
or capping. In the second case, fresh yeast is added that can vigorously
carbonate the beer with lower ester production (nice after a long, cold
secondary when the yeast are few and wasted).
Kyle
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Michael Higuchi <mhiguchi@ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 15:27:32 GMT
Subject: New grain mill
Just had to crow: my local homebrew shop has finally improved
their crush. With a MaltMill (tm)!! :) Efficiency on my last
batch was 81%, up from a really crappy (but consistent) 63-64%.
WHOO HOO!!! (Kudos to HiTimes Too in Costa Mesa CA, no
affiliation blah blah)
Michael Higuchi
Costa Mesa, California
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "BARRON, GRAHAM LARS" <GBARRON@music.cc.uga.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:48:01 EDT
Subject: cancel
please cancel my subscription. thank you.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Graham L. Barron | "If you drink beer, you die. If you +
+ University of Georgia | don't drink beer, you die anyway. So +
+ Athens, Georgia, USA | you might as well drink it." +
+ gbarron@music.cc.uga.edu | -- Roger Briess +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Algis R Korzonas <korz@pubs.ih.att.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 96 10:32:03 CDT
Subject: Re: Priming w/wort or dextrose: Crabtree
Ken writes:
>But Al also cast doubt on my basic reason for priming with malt extract,
>which is in order to use up some of the oxygen in the bottle, in order to
>retard staling. (Miller says, quite baldly [CHHB, p.169]: "Because of the
>Crabtree effect, glucose priming has no effect on the level of oxygen in
>home brewed beers." [Whereas wort/malt-extract priming *does* consume
>oxygen.])
Sorry. Miller is wrong. Both glucose, maltose and a few more sugars
induce the Crabtree effect so there is no respiration of oxygen by yeast
whether you prime with dextrose (glucose), malt extract or gyle [Malting
and Brewing Science; coincidentally read it this weekend, didn't memorize
the page number]. Yeast love oxygen regardless and although they don't
use it for respiration (thanks to the Crabtree effect) they do uptake the
oxygen for sterol synthesis. Tracy Aquilla has written about this in great
detail and the article should be in an upcoming magazine. It's about time
we got this straight in the homebrewing literature!
Al.
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Jeff Frane <jfrane@teleport.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 09:16:00 -0700
Subject: Re: Primings
Ken Willing wrote:
>
>But Al says:
>> ... There is nothing inherently different between the yeast's
>> oxygen uptake with various primings. They consume the oxygen because they
>> desire it and the type of sugar used for priming doesn't affect that.
>
>I wonder if anyone out there would care to venture an adjudication of this.
>If my wort priming (which I claim results in too much esteriness) is not
>doing me any more good, oxygen-wise, than dextrose priming, I'd obviously
>like to stop priming with wort.
>
While I'm not willing to be as definitive as Al on the subject, I would
like to note that Miller's approach doesn't square with general brewing
practices, in those instances where commercial breweries bottle condition
(historically or currently). In those instances, the use of wort
priming is more or less unheard of and primings are composed of various
proprietary blends of sugars (invert, sucrose, caramel, etc.).
I'm inclined to the belief--based on a few years' experience and modicum of
research--that the quantities of fermentables being dealt with here are
so low that they have no measurable effect on the quality of the beer --
except that there have been any number of anecdotes about problems with
wort priming and proteins.
I think that staling in bottle-conditioned beers has little to do with
the choice of priming source and everything to do with the way the beer
is handled during and post-bottling (and, potentially, the way the wort
is handled pre-fermentation). Anecdotally, I have tasted literally
hundreds of bottle-conditioned beers (amateur and commercial alike) in
which staling was simply not evident and I would guess that the vast
majority of these were primed with dextrose.
- - --Jeff Frane
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Tracy Aquilla <aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 May 96 12:11:39 CDT
Subject: RE: dextrose priming and esters
In Digest #2041:
Ken Willing <kwilling@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au> wrote:
>I recently asked if other people have found, as Dave Miller has (and I have)
>that bottle priming with malt-extract/wort produces noticeably higher
>esteriness (in brews fermented with ale yeasts) than if priming is done with
>dextrose.
I have never noticed such an effect, myself. The growth (budding) of yeast
produces esters, regardless of the type of sugar being consumed.
>But Al also cast doubt on my basic reason for priming with malt extract,
>which is in order to use up some of the oxygen in the bottle, in order to
>retard staling. (Miller says, quite baldly [CHHB, p.169]: "Because of the
>Crabtree effect, glucose priming has no effect on the level of oxygen in
>home brewed beers." [Whereas wort/malt-extract priming *does* consume
>oxygen.])
The Crabtree effect is simply a regulatory mechanism whereby yeast repress
the respiratory pathway in favor of fermentation, when fermentable sugar is
available. Neither this mechanism nor the nature of the sugar consumed
(glucose/maltose) has anything to do with whether or not yeast consumes
oxygen. Yeast is basically an 'oxygen sponge' and will rapidly absorb all of
the dissolved O2 from a solution, regardless of the physiological state of
the cell or the type of sugars present.
>But Al says:
>> ... There is nothing inherently different between the yeast's
>> oxygen uptake with various primings. They consume the oxygen because they
>> desire it and the type of sugar used for priming doesn't affect that.
>
>I wonder if anyone out there would care to venture an adjudication of this.
>If my wort priming (which I claim results in too much esteriness) is not
>doing me any more good, oxygen-wise, than dextrose priming, I'd obviously
>like to stop priming with wort.
I don't think the final DO levels (or esters) in beer are significantly
affected by the sugar used to prime for bottle-conditioning.
Tracy
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: The Mercenary Hacker <rdg@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:18:17 -0600
Subject: [none]
testing
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 12:13:58 -0400
Subject: BreWater 2.0
Just wanted to announce that BreWater 2.0 is now available, for all you A-R
Water Treatment folks like me. I've added a "real" help file, added
print-to-file capability, fixed some bugs, improved (simplified) the
setup.exe, and added a pH predictor for waters built from ion-free water.
I've also catalogued my various other rantings in one handy dandy spot;
you're now just a point'n'click away when you go to
http://users.aol.com/kennyeddy
This URL can be used to access BreWater 2.0 as well.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 12:14:13 -0400
Subject: Finding Ferm Foam
The foam thing seems to be the biggest issue with the fermentation chiller
construction for most people, based on the E-mail I get on the topic.
Yup, I got lucky and "happenned" upon the foam I used. It's from the
radiology department at a lcoal hospital -- seems they use it as a platform
to load CAT scan victims upon. They goop some liquid expandable foam at one
end, throw a sheet of plastic over it, and lay the patient on the plastic
until the goop sets, forming a custom "cradle" to hold the patient in just
the right position for scanning. Anyway, they use it a few times until the
patient's scanning days are over, and then just chuck it. I volunteered to
be the chuck-ee. Costs me a sixer of homebrew every few weeks. Problen is I
get 2' x ~5' pieces; lots of trimming & lots of waste.
I inquired as to where *they* got the foam; they get it at a local insulation
supply house. It's a bit pricey (4 x 8 shhet costs ~$25) but its density and
R-value are ideal for this application and if you're resourceful in locating
other components you can still build the thing quite inexpensively. The $10
4 x 8 sheet at the home store is likely to be the white "styrofoam" stuff.
This low-density foam will work but you'll need to reinforce the corners of
the top and front panels (and the mating edges on the box itself) with duct
tape. A piece of plywood on the "floor" of the Fermentation Chamber will
make loading & unloading the fermenter less likely to dent or damage the
unit. Folks who have used this stuff have not had much trouble so it's
definitely an option. Just don't play Toss-Across with the damn thing and
you'll get plenty of service from it.
See my post of about 2 weeks ago or so concerning other "tips" to improve on
the basic design. You can view/download the original plans from
http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/lagcab.html (html format)
or
ftp://users.aol.com/kennyeddy/files/chiller.zip (Word 2.0)
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro@berlex.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 12:35:04 -0700
Subject: [none]
In HBD #2041 Guy Gregory states that it is the fine grain particles of
rye and wheat that cause stuck sparges and hazy beer. This is not
entirely correct. If the grain is milled too fine, then the small
particles will indeed clog the lauter tun (as Guy states). If the
grains are milled properly, you can still experience trouble in the
lauter tun because of the high protein content of these grains (see
Eric Warner's book about Wheat Beers). Rye is especially gummy
(protein gum, that is) but so are unmalted grains (like raw barley).
During malting, proteins are degraded. That's why you don't need a
protein rest with highly modified malts (like English Pale Malt).
The haze in these beers is also caused by the high protein content of
the grains, not by fine grain particles. Remember that chill haze is
caused by protein-tannin complexes. If fine particles were making it
all the way to your finished beer, they would cause more problems than
just haze! Unconverted starch particles would leave the beer VERY
vulnerable to infection (because brewing yeasts don't metabolize
starch, but some bacteria do) and husk fines would very likely make
the beer unpalatably astringent.
My wheat worts are quite clear before the boil-no fine particles are
getting through. If you desire clear wheat and rye beers, use a
protein rest, a relatively long boil (good hot break), quick wort
chilling (good cold break), and cold-lager the beer to settle out the
chill haze (or filter it if you're in a rush).
George De Piro
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD@hood-emh3.army.mil>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:19:00 -0500
Subject: LAGER REFRIGERATORS
In HBD #2040, Scott writes:
>Here's the
>big ASSumption: the temperature sensor is in the freezer section and the
>refrigerator section is kept cool by colder air migrating in from the
>freezer. I do think that is the way things work.
I believe that that was the way refrigerators worked in the old days.
An avocado green refrigerator in a mobile home I rented in
Alabama (before I saw Twister) had a freezer inside the refrigerator
compartment and only one temperature control.
In my Texas apartment, I have an off white, modern, high speed, low drag
Teflon coated, maintenance free refrigerator with two separate
temperature controls which operate independently. I'm currently
fermenting one carboy of Pilsner and one Bohemian Pilsner at 50
degrees while storing my hops at 20 degrees. I had to fool with
temperature controls and a carboy of water to get it exactly right.
A change would in the control would manifest itself in the liquid
of the carboy in 12-24 hrs. The refrigerator temp. can vary up to
five degrees depending on the ambient tempature in the apartment,
however with the thermal mass of 10 gallons of beer plus several
gallons of photographic chemicals moderate the tempature changes.
I even unscrewed the light bulb to minimize the effects of light when
I check on the progress of the ferment.
Luckily, I'm a bachelor with no SO to amend my ways. Only
had to throw out some year old eggs 8-)
Daniel Goodale
The Biohazard Brewing Company
Sure it's gonna kill ya, but who wants to live forever?
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: BJFABB@ccmail.monsanto.com
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 12:29:33 -0500
Subject: the last ten percent
Bill (billg@maine.com) wrote...
(start snip)
>Brewing is brewing and knowledge will set you free. Perhaps we can not
>afford the elaborate equipment that the large brewers can afford but with
>the knowledge some times we can compensate for the lack of equipment. Many
>folks are happy with the MaltMill and 28-30 pppg. I would much rather have
>a yeild of 31-35 pppg. That last 10 per cent is where a lot of the flavor
>resides. Aside from better flavor. I paid for the malt and I will get
>everything I can out of it.
(end snip)
Bill, please clarify what you mean by a lot of desirable flavor residing in the
final ten percent of available extract. In my experience, the majority of the
flavors I'm looking for are most concentrated in early runnings, with the later
runnings tending to have a higher proportion of harsh 'huskey' flavors. Am I
missing something here? BTW, I use a MaltMill (non-adjustable), and typically
get in the range of 30-33 points/lb. This is the same value I obtained with a
Phil's mill, but IMO the MaltMill is much more of a joy to use. Sometimes I back
off on the sparge and shoot for about a 28-30 points/lb extraction to avoid the
harsher later runnings flavors (even with pH 5.3 sparge water). At $0.60/lb for
the additional grain required, I consider this 'inefficiency' to be a minor
expense. I'd be much more worried about extraction efficiency if I had a
commercial scale brewing operation.
Cheers,
Brad Fabbri
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Shawn Steele <shawn@aob.org>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:21:07 -0600
Subject: HOMEBREW DIGEST MOVED
The Homebrew Digest has moved. Please update your aliases, etc. with
the new addresses, which are:
homebrew@aob.org (SUBMISSIONS ONLY)
homebrew-digest-requests@aob.org (SUBSCRIBE, UNSUBSCRIBE, etc.)
Hopefully everything moved to the new server smoothly and there were no
problems. If you notice a technical problem, please contact me at
shawn@aob.org.
Hoppy Homebrewing,
Shawn Steele
shawn@aob.org
------------------------------
From: Darrin Pertschi <darrinp@cowles.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:07:25 -0400
Subject: Rye / kegging
Chiming in on the rye thread, I'm looking for suggestions on how to use it
and what kind in an extract/specialty grain batch.
- - ----------
Got a minor problem with my first kegged batch (corny setup). Foam city.
At first I thought over carbonation, but it doesn't "feel" like it is. With
only 5 psi on it, I pour about 50/50, beer to foam. Additionally, and I
think this might have something to do with it, after I pour the dispensing
line fills up with tiny bubbles, eventually leaving the line only half full of
beer. I wonder if I have a slight leak there somewhere? Fridge is a fairly
stable 40 degrees.
One other thing. What procedure are you all using to force carbonate? I got
a lot of different replys from other people I asked, as well as books and net
sites. I've seen the chart for volumes C02 for given temp/psi, but I've not
read any accurate way to get to those numbers.
I'd like to start at 2.5 volumes C02. So for me at 40 degrees I should set
the regulator at about 12 psi. Then what? Put everything in the fridge and
wait, how long? The "shake until you no longer hear gas going in" seems
rather vague. I am a block head at times, anybody care to break this one for
me (step by step)?
BTW, the second keg is currently carbonating via corn sugar, maybe that's
my best approach.
Darrin
Proprietor-Simpleton's Cosmic Brewery
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Algis R Korzonas <korz@pubs.ih.att.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 96 12:24:53 CDT
Subject: Carbonates and dark grains/categories/FWH/strainers and HSA
Steve writes (quoting me):
>>... If you are making a stout, you would most certainly
>>would like to have some amount of carbonates in the water to balance the
>>acidity of the dark grains. Otherwise you have a noticeably sour beer.
>
>I have evidence to contradict this. I've been using RO water with and
>without salt additions for the last two years. My last stout, a Guinness
>clone, was brewed with straight RO water, no salt additions. This 1.040
>all-grain beer used the following grains: 6 lbs pale ale, 1 lb roasted
>barley, and 1 lb flaked barley. The pH of the mash settled at 5.3 without
>adjustment. The resulting beer was tasty and smooth with absolutely no hint
>of sourness.
I would venture to guess that most brewers don't use distilled or RO water.
I have relatively middle-of-the-road water with 100ppm of carbonates in
our water. I don't recall the calcium or sulphate levels, but they are
not extremely high. When I mash with no dark grains, I get a pH of about
5.3 or so. When I add dark grains to make a stout or a porter, my pH drops
well below 5.0. I have seen it as low as 4.6 on one recipe.
Since your RO water has no calcium, you don't get the pH-reducing reaction
that I get between the calcium and the malt (phosphates I believe). This
explains why your pH is not as low as mine. I still think that my point
holds true for most naturally-occuring waters.
***
Michael writes:
>...but I must also voice my concern regarding the
>format of the competition. Why even have subcatagories if only the top
>3 of each catagory advance to the finals? I realize that by giving out
>first-third for each subcatagory would increase the number of advancers
>to the second round but how can, for example, an ordinary bitter compete
>against an ESB?? Granted both could be excellent brews but it is like
>comparing apples to oranges. Different gravities, bitterness, fullness,
>etc..... Would it be possible to have yet a third round of judging? or
>would that be too much?? I would like to see my oatmeal stout go against
>other oatmeal stouts not dry stouts. So if I entered every stout
>catagory then all my stouts are competing against each other. It is my
>opinion that the only time different subcatagories should be judged
>against each other is in the best of show judging. Maybe I just don;t
>understand how all this competition stuff works but I think there needs
>to be some reform. <snip>
While it may be more "fair" to judge only dry stouts and not judge them
against oatmeal stouts, it would mean 100 categories, some with only
a few entries. Sub-styles, and therefore sub-caterories, make competitions
feasable: a reasonable number of entries judged together so that winning
means something, but not so many that the judges palates are shot by the
time they reach the last entry. If skilled judges are judging, they can
judge Ordinary Bitters against ESBs. First you judge the Ordinary Bitters
against the OB guidelines, then the Special Bitters against the Special
guidelines and then finally the ESBs against their guideline. It would
certainly be more easy for the category judges if each style had its own
category, but think of the poor Best-of-Show judges! 100 beers to taste
and then pick 1, 2 and 3? Egads!
In small competitions, you often see even further compression of categories,
e.g. "dark ales." It would be impractical for the organizer to give out
300 ribbons (or even 87 ribbons (3 times 29 categories)) if you only got
100 entries, no?
In very large competitions, like the Nationals, it could be possible to
judge as you suggest, but what is done is that the category is split up
into several flights. Let's say there are 48 Belgian and French Ales.
You would take 8 judges in four pairs and give each of them 12 beers to
judge. The top two or three beers from each flight would be recapped and
the most experienced judge from each of the four flights would get together
and pick the 1, 2 and 3. That's not perfect, but it's much more fair than
the alternative, which would be numerical comparison that, due to judge
variablity, is inherently unfair.
***
Regarding First Wort Hopping, I think that my Bohemian Pilsner (after
12 weeks of lagering) is now "done" and can be properly assessed.
I put ALL the fresh Czech Saaz pellets (40 IBUs based upon Ragers formulas)
into the kettle while taking the runnings and boiled a total of two hours
with no other hop additions. Lots of hop flavour. No hop aroma. Perhaps
whole hops would have done better? Perhaps. Maybe I'll try again with
them... but with pellets, I have to say that my one data point says that
FWH adds hop flavour, not aroma.
***
Paul writes:
>the grains usually arive with a fair amount of flour in the bag.
>On brew day I dump the bag in 1-2 gal. of warm water, bring to
>150 deg. for about 3/4 hour, strain through a not-so-fine strainer,
>rinse grains with hot water, discard grains and I'm off and brewing
>from there. A couple of questions regarding this technique:
>
>1-A fair amount of the flour makes it through the strainer, and thus,
> into the brew kettle to be boiled. I know grains shouldn't be
> boiled because of the tannins issue(that's about as specific as I can
> get on that issue). Does this apply to the flour that makes it to the
> boil also, or is the amount so small that I need not worry about it?
It depends what the grains are you are talking about. If you are doing
this with pale (or vienna, munich, toasted pale, etc.) malt, then you
are sort-of partial mashing, but you are not lautering. It doesn't matter
that the strainer is fine, it's probably not fine enough to trap many of
the particles that you need to remove from the wort. In a proper lauter
tun, the screen only holds the big pieces of grain and the small ones
flow through initially. Subsequent recirculation (vorlauf) will cause
the grain bed to establish it's own "filtering system" and trap the
small particles. If flour is indeed getting throug then you will have
a permanent starch haze.
If it's crystal malt and dark grains (like chocolate malt, black patent or
roasted barley), then a strainer is acceptable. The "flour" here would
not be a big problem. I prefer a grain bag, however.
>2-While straining and rinsing, a good amount of aeration takes place. Is
> this hot-side-aeration(HSA?) or does that only apply to wort after it is
> boiled? While we're at it, can someone give me a quick and easy HSA
> explanation and how it adversely effects the taste of beer?
First of all, rinsing these grains with too much water is sure to extract
tannins which, besides contributing to chill haze will also give your
beer astingency. Try chewing on a dark red apple peel or dark red or dark
purple grape skins. THAT'S astringency. If you get that in your beer,
just soak the grains in no more than 1 gallon per pound and don't rinse
them (I'm assuming crystal and dark grains here).
Secondly, yes it's hot-side-aeration. The characteristic flavour of HSA is
that the beer tastes like sherry (yes, Harvey's Bristol Cream). If you
get a little HSA in a strong-flavoured batch, you may not notice a sherry-like
flavour, but your beer will stale much faster. The oxygen gets bound up
in melanoidins which will later release it to react with other compounds
in the beer (e.g. hop oils to kill hop aroma after a week or two, compounds
which result in excessive diacetyl (I want to say alpha-acetolactic acid,
but don't quote me on it), alcohols to produce aldehydes, other compounds
which result in wet-cardboard aroma... the list goes on-and-on).
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Mark Garetz <mgaretz@hoptech.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 10:15:06 -0700
Subject: O2 Bags and Sealers
Dan Ritter asks about zip lock O2 bags and sources for sealers and bags.
Dan is right in his assumption that O2 zip lock bags leak O2 through the
zipper. In addition, there are supposedly pin-holes created in the process
of bonding the zipper to the bag. So the bottom line is that O2 zip lock
bags are unacceptable, IMO.
The good news is that the inexpensive Dazey "Seal-A-Meal" is a very good
heat sealer and the bags that come with it are very good O2 barrier bags.
It is available for around $15 new (check local hardware stores that have
"kitchen ware" departments), but one can usually find them used for about $5
at Goodwill, Salvation Army and other thrift stores. Note I am talking
about the basic Seal-a-meal, NOT the vacuum unit. That's good too, but more
pricey.
If you have CO2 (or nitrogen) purge the bags before sealing. If you don't,
just manually squeeze most of the air out of the bag and seal. Some air
will remain in the bag, but the point is to stop the constant in-flux of O2
- so once the bag is sealed and the trapped air is "used up" no futher
deterioration of the hops will occur - and in practice that which does occur
is extremely minimal. Make sure these hops are stored in the freezer and
minimize their exposure to light as the Dazey bags are clear.
For bags, as was mentioned, the Dazey *original* bags are good O2 bags. BUT
the bags that come with the vacuum version ARE NOT good O2 bags.
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro@berlex.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:33:41 -0700
Subject: Causes of haze in rye/wheat beers
In HBD #2041 Guy Gregory states that it is the fine grain particles of
rye and wheat that cause stuck sparges and hazy beer. This is not
entirely correct. If the grain is milled too fine, then the small
particles will indeed clog the lauter tun (as Guy states). If the
grains are milled properly, you can still experience trouble in the
lauter tun because of the high protein content of these grains (see
Eric Warner's book about Wheat Beers). Rye is especially gummy
(protein gum, that is) but so are unmalted grains (like raw barley).
During malting, proteins are degraded. That's why you don't need a
protein rest with highly modified malts (like English Pale Malt).
The haze in these beers is also caused by the high protein content of
the grains, not by fine grain particles. Remember that chill haze is
caused by protein-tannin complexes. If fine particles were making it
all the way to your finished beer, they would cause more problems than
just haze! Unconverted starch particles would leave the beer VERY
vulnerable to infection (because brewing yeasts don't metabolize
starch, but some bacteria do) and husk fines would very likely make
the beer unpalatably astringent.
My wheat worts are quite clear before the boil-no fine particles are
getting through. If you desire clear wheat and rye beers, use a
protein rest, a relatively long boil (good hot break), quick wort
chilling (good cold break), and cold-lager the beer to settle out the
chill haze (or filter it if you're in a rush).
George De Piro
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: George De Piro <George_De_Piro@berlex.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:36:38 -0700
Subject: Causes of stuck runoff/haze in rye & wheat beers
In HBD #2041 Guy Gregory states that it is the fine grain particles of
rye and wheat that cause stuck sparges and hazy beer. This is not
entirely correct. If the grain is milled too fine, then the small
particles will indeed clog the lauter tun (as Guy states). If the
grains are milled properly, you can still experience trouble in the
lauter tun because of the high protein content of these grains (see
Eric Warner's book about Wheat Beers). Rye is especially gummy
(protein gum, that is) but so are unmalted grains (like raw barley).
During malting, proteins are degraded. That's why you don't need a
protein rest with highly modified malts (like English Pale Malt).
The haze in these beers is also caused by the high protein content of
the grains, not by fine grain particles. Remember that chill haze is
caused by protein-tannin complexes. If fine particles were making it
all the way to your finished beer, they would cause more problems than
just haze! Unconverted starch particles would leave the beer VERY
vulnerable to infection (because brewing yeasts don't metabolize
starch, but some bacteria do) and husk fines would very likely make
the beer unpalatably astringent.
My wheat worts are quite clear before the boil-no fine particles are
getting through. If you desire clear wheat and rye beers, use a
protein rest, a relatively long boil (good hot break), quick wort
chilling (good cold break), and cold-lager the beer to settle out the
chill haze (or filter it if you're in a rush).
George De Piro
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "Decker, Robin E." <robind@rmtgvl.rmtinc.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 96 14:08:00 -0500
Subject: Beer Dinners & mikehu
Hello all,
After spending much of the weekend attempting to search (or is it "surf"?)
the net with my pitifully lacking web skills, I have about decided that
there is no info on Beer Dinners, as "events", and their menus, or
locations. That excludes the one reference to a dinner put together by Sam
Adams - 5 courses, and all SA beers served (natch), but it was actually a
gif of an autograph obtained at said dinner....
Anyway, as we understand it, this is a highly enjoyable way of introducing
people to new beer experiences, as well as proving that great beer is
democratic, and has a place in every level of society, unlike
wine....<duck>. That being the case we feel the concept would be an
excellent vehicle for increasing our homebrew/beer store's clientele. So,
do any of you have direct (or even indirect) experience you can relate? Or
can you just provide me with a proper search string/address?
<rant mode on>
<mikehu>'s lovely <note the sarcasm> flame of JS in #2040 leaves me with the
urge to put in 2 or 10 cents worth... Granted the MM debate went overlong,
and probably should have moved to e-mail many issues ago, BUT y'all seem to
have become pretty intolerant lately of anyone with a passionate opinion.
Have you lost sight of the fact that Jack _lets_ you all beat up on him,
and he takes it with a good deal of grace? Seems like if he wanted to
_hide-out_ in e-mail, he could avoid alot of abuse. How many other
professionals have you run off with your constant attacks? I certainly
haven't seen "PHIL" waiting in line to run this gauntlet, and just recently
it was Al K. who was the "evil one".
This ties inneatly (IMO) with the subject of disclaimers.....KNOCK IT OFF
ALREADY!!! Its the silliest thing I've ever seen...a recommendation, or a
glowing report from a customer is just that. If the same person posts the
same recommendation day after day, then maybe it falls into the dreaded AD
category, and you can all flame at will. The way I see it, we ALL gain from
the success of our favorite businesses, and I personally feel it is my duty
to help my favorites STAY in business, because if I am a slacker, one day
that service or product may no longer be available to me. If it no longer
available to me, then it is probably not available at all, meaning some of
my neighbors have lost their jobs, and my community is that much poorer for
the loss. So if I recommend something, you will most assuredly NOT get a
disclaimer from me!
<rant off>
BTW, I've tasted all the Longshots, and the Hazelnut is the only one that
disappoints...it just has too much extra sweetness; they should cut the
hazlenut by 50-75%. Jason, if your friend had shopped at BIERMEISTERS, he
could have bought one (or a few) of each instead of gambling on a 12. The
other 2 are true to style, and enjoyable.
Goldings
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Ron Raike <ron@mail.creol.ucf.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 15:05:53 -0400
Subject: Old Dominion Millenium
I was looking for some information on Old Dominion Millenium.
Any information/story would be helpfull.... IBU's, hop variety,
gravities...
I am not active on the HBD, please respond privately:
ron@mail.creol.ucf.edu
Southeast Homebrewer of the Year '95
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 14:04:05 -0500
Subject: Bishop's Finger, Spam
> From: paa3765@dpsc.dla.mil (Steve Adams)
> Subject: FWH Aroma/Flavor of British Ales
> On another topic, I've detected a distinctive flavor in several British ales
> I've tasted recently, namely Fullers Olde Winter Ale and Shepherd Neame's
> Bishop's Finger Kentish Ale.
I recently shared a friend's bottle of Shephard Neame's Bishop's Finger Kentish
Ale. There's a mouthful if I ever heard it. A very distinctive flavor. Some
kind of lightly roasted or toasted malt, not unlike that used in Felinfoel, is
going on in there. But, I think that most of that 'highly distinct' flavor is
from the yeast. I suspected some strain of Brettanomyces (or whatever it's
new name is). This stuff, as I recall dimly from the few ounces I was poured,
was quite dry. It might also be from a long boil, or something else. It was
slightly reminiscent of the Dolle Braureij (sp?) stuff from Belgium, or so I
felt.
> Oh, yeah, the Shepherd Neame's and Olde Winter Ale are
> well worth trying if you haven't done so already.
That I can second. I hope someone knows some true facts (tm) on this
delightful beer.
Jim Busch speculates in the next issue that it's diacetyl. Maybe, but I've
had many British beers with a hefty diacetyl note, and they are quite different
from this stuff. Maybe there's so much more of it, and the beer is dryer, and
so I think it's different. Or maybe it's not diacetyl.
> From: korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
> Subject: Ads
> I suggest that the HBD software be modified so that non-subscribers
> cannot post.
I was thinking the same thing. It's one thing when someone issues a
half-shameless plug for their homebrew store or brewing-related product,
but totally non-beer related bullshit, particuarlarly a long SPAM like
this, is way outta line.
Spam, by the way, refers to unsolicited mass-mailings or mass-postings.
A lot of ISPs (Internet Service Provider, they who give you your address
and access) are trying to reduce Spam all over in many ways, it looks
like using mailing lists is a new way for them to annoy a wide audience.
I have a great Spam-spoof, which I often send to spammers for educational
purposes. If anyone would like a copy, please send me private e-mail and
I'll get you one. Perhaps you'd like to forward it to these schmucks, also.
(It's really pretty funny.)
> If a subscriber gets out of hand and starts posting ads repeatedly, they
> can be silenced by unsubscribing them.
This coming from the first person to worry about the AoB taking over the HBD?
I guess if there's arguable beer-related content, unsubscribing is a bit harsh.
Two other problems arise, though. First - how do you keep them from
subscribing, spamming, and then unsubscribing? Second - if 'they'
unsubscribe you for mentioning your homebrew store in a light they
consider commercial, what's to stop you from just resubscribing?
Generally, there are two ways to stop Spamming. One, contact the postmaster
at the offender's ISP. Most modern spammers do little tricks to mask their
ISP, and there are several ISPs which are notorious spammer-havens. THe other
way is to contact YOUR ISP, and say you've received unsolicited mass-mailings,
and they often will take some kind of action. The fact that it comes in the
HBD instead of directly from some chump shouldn't make a difference.
-R
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Woody Weaver <woody@altair.stmarys-ca.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 May 96 12:00 PDT
Subject: Yeast ranching for the frugal novice
Greetings, all,
For the new brewer who hasn't yet worked with yeast starters,
I just wanted to say, "do it"! and share my experiences. My
impression is that like most aspects of this craft, the procedure is
very tolerant of mistakes, and can improve cost and process time for
your beer.
Here is my current experience:
Equipment:
* a dozen sterile 12 oz beer bottles and bottlecaps
* sterile spoon
* a couple of airlocks
* wide mouth spaghetti sauce jar with cap (empty)
* plastic bowl to hold jar with ice (for chilling)
* sterilized 500 ml beer bottle, grolsch style cap (or sterile stopper)
* sterilized 750 ml clear glass whiskey bottle and screw cap (empty)
Note no special purchases other than a couple of airlocks (and I
probably could have gotten away without them, but they are safer).
Ingredients:
* Dregs from secondary from initial Wyeast innoculation
* about a quarter cup of DME per repitched batch
* non-sterile ice
Procedure:
After bottling the previous batch (and not trying too hard
to get every last drop of beer) I was left with about a liter of
slurry/beer on the bottom of the secondary fermenter. Using a sterile
spoon, I filled the dozen bottles about one-fourth full (over the sink, as
this was a messy process). I put airlocks on a couple of bottles, and
just loosely covered the rest with bottlecaps. I left the bottles on
a shelf for about a week. At the end of that time, I bottled and put
them away.
About two months later, I put a couple of tablespoons of dry malt
extract in the spagetti sauce jar, and added about 6 oz of water.
Dissolved, this made about a 1.020 wort. I put the jar in the
microwave and set on high for three minutes (to bring to boil) and
then on very low for fifteen minutes (to sustain the boil). The jar
was covered with the metal cap, and placed in bowl with a little
water. (Beware thermal shock.) Additional water and ice were added,
and the cap was periodically loosened to equalize pressure. Wort was
brought down to room temp in 15 minutes or so.
One of the bottles of dregs was opened, the lip carefully wiped with
rubbing alcohol, and flamed. (Well, actually, it wasn't: I brought
the alcohol into the kitchen but forgot to use it.) I swirled a bit,
poured the liquid (about 75ml, perhaps 25 ml yeast slurry 50 ml old
beer) into the 500 ml beer bottle, then poured on top of that the
sterile wort. I covered, and agitated to oxygenate the wort,
uncovered, put an airlock on it, and let it stand for a five days.
Second step was like the first, except this time I used about a
quarter cup of DME and more like 8 oz of water (making a 1.060 wort,
same SG as the wort into which the yeast will be pitched), the liquid
was poured off the yeast sediment before transferring into the 750 ml
flask, and I only waited about 36 hours before pitching into the wort.
Results:
Doing the two step-ups took about an hour of time in the kitchen
(while I was doing other things). One nice point is that its a short
procedure, unlike the brewing process, so you don't have to reserve a
large block of time.
I ended up pitching about 700 ml of yeast and wort slurry into 20
gallons of a honey wheat wort. After two hours there was a noticeable
generation of CO2 through the airlock, and when I'd checked on it
after 12 hours, rapid fermentation was already well underway. (On
previous attempts using the Wyeast 3068 pitched from swelled packet
into primary, I'd have around 36 hours lag time.) Consequently, this
should reduce the fermentation time by at least a day.
Caveats:
My spouse is a molecular biologist who has worked with yeast genetics,
and tells me my process for storing the yeast sucks: they really
should be chilled or frozen. On the other hand, it did seem to come
back to life reasonably well. I'm not planning on ranching the yeast
past the first generation, and will probably only pitch that first
generation a half dozen times -- on the other hand, that brings the
$3.50 liquid yeast packet down to $0.50 per application, and gives me
a more rapid fermentation to boot.
Final notes:
Already I can think of several ways to improve the process, and yeah I
think I'd like to get some test tubes and glycerol and freeze some
samples. (On the other hand, yesterday spouse complained that there
were "too many hops" in the freezer. Imagine!)
Comments from the experts accepted (always willing to learn new
things). But for the newbies out there, next time you are at the brew
store, pick up an extra pound of dry extract, or fill a couple glass
jars with liquid extract. Its easy, cost effective, and will enhance
your process. Just do it!
- - --woody
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Steven Klafka <sklafka@madison.tdsnet.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:41:32 -0700
Subject: calibrating Hunter temperature controller
I have been using a Hunter air conditioner thermostat to control the
temperature of my chest freezer for several years. The thermostat has
apparently lost much of its accuracy. It's digital readout is set at 50F
but a dial probe thermometer, located next to the thermostat temperature
probe, reads 33F. Occasionally the thermostat reads high if it gets wet.
However, this condition has lasted for weeks.
Has anyone had any similar experiences? Can the temperature probe on the
Hunter thermostat be calibrated, or is it necessary for it to be cleaned,
repaired, or replaced?
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: "SPEAKER.CURTIS" <CSS2@oas.psu.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:53 EDT
Subject: stupid minikeg tricks
I would like to tell the collective about a stupid brewer trick that I have
perfected in hopes that I can save some other folks a PITA.
I am the (reasonably) happy owner of a 5L minikeg system with a PartyStar
metal tap (from Fass Frisch). The weak link in the system that I have found
is where the down tube ( the long black plastic tube that goes down into the
keg) screws into the metal top of the tap. A small o-ring sits just below the
threads on the down tube. The tube should only be tightened until the o-ring
starts to deform!!! (see shitty ASCI drawing below)
| | <---tap head
----- -----
--------
-------- <--- threads
--------
_{_|______|_}_ <---o-ring
| |
| | <------down tube
| |
If you overtighten the tube into the tap head, and then bump the tube for
whatever reason, the tube snaps off, leaving the threads stuck in the tap
head. Without a spanner wrench (which I have, thank god) or a good bit of
ingenuity, your tap is now ruined. I have done this twice (can you say
putz?); I have also found that many stores that sell minikegs at taps do not
sell all the parts that you need to fix a broken one! The down tube is only
$3-4, but without it the minikeg tap is useless...
Eugene Sonn <eugene@dreamscape.com> asked about minikeg priming. Minikegs
need much less priming sugar that bottles. 3/4 cup of corn sugar is way too
much!!! I almost never fill 4 minikegs at the same time, so I use 1
Tablespoon of corn sugar in a cup of water; bring the sugar water to a boil,
cool slightly and add to your keg just before the beer. For a whole batch, I
would try 1/4 to 1/3 cup corn sugar, but not 3/4 cup!
Hope this helps....
Prosit!
Curt
"Life's too short to drink cheap beer"
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Dave Hinkle <Dave.Hinkle@aexp.com>
Date: 20 May 1996 14:03:15 -0700
Subject: Imperial Pints/ No Fridge Control Control
Jeff's Renner's response to Steve Gravels question asking if the Brits pints
are 16oz:
>> I thought a pint was 16 oz. or are the *bloody Brit*
>> different?
>
>An English (Imperial) pint is 19.6 US oz.; so you see, a pint's not a
>pound the world around. The new extra 2 oz. or so is for the head. The
>old ones (of which I have a dozen or so) had to be filled brim full.
>This isn't a problem in the south, where they don't like or expect foam,
>but in the north it is.
and R Moline wrote:
> 1 pint British = 1.2009 pint US
> 1 oz British Fluid = .96076 US Fluid
> 1 pint British = 20 oz British Fluid
Let's set the record straight on British imperial measures. A British imperial
pint is 4 gills, one gill is 5 oz (imperial), and one imperial oz. is 28.41
cc. A US fluid oz is 29.57 cc; from this you determine that an Imperial pint
is 568.2 cc, and a US fluid pint is 473.1 cc, or that an Imperial pint is
equivalent to 19.2 US fluid oz.
Note that British imperial measures are for both fluid and dry measure; US
measures for fluid vs. dry differ (ie. US fluid pint is 473.1 cc, while US dry
pint is 551 cc). Note that the US dry pint is very close to the British
imperial fluid/dry pint. US dry measures are all quite close to British
imperial measures. Guess we Yanks just had to be different and invent a
separate fluid measurement system. Think about that next time you buy a pint
of blueberries.
The most common pub glasses I've seen in the UK are the one's with the bulge
1/3 down from the rim, and have an etched crown mark about 1/2" below the rim
indicating an imperial pint. You will also see the straight sided glasses both
marked and plain, with the plain being a pint all the way to the rim. I think
it's these unmarked exact pint glasses that are being phased out in favor of
the marked, slightly oversized glasses. Not unlike parts of the US that
require bars to use oversize shot glasses that are etched at the 1oz (US
fluid!) level.
- - ------------------------------------------------------
Ronald LaBorde writes:
>Here's the
>big ASSumption: the temperature sensor is in the freezer section and the
>refrigerator section is kept cool by colder air migrating in from the
>freezer. I do think that is the way things work. Now why not use a method
>where the air migration is regulated to the refrigerator section to control
>the temperature. This would allow full use of the freezer as normal.
>
>Some sort of mechanical vane could be used to regulate the air flow. This
>could be done with a bimetal spiral as in a thermostat, or it could be done
>electrically using some sort of solenoid actuator.
We have an old Norge fridge, and you basically described how it works, except
the thermostat sensor is in the fridge compartment. The 'freezer" control is
just a dumb mechanical vane that directs air away from the main compartment and
more through the freezer. As a normal refrigerator, the design sucks. If the
coils ice up enough (defrost timer not quite right, I suspect), airflow to the
lower (main) compartment gets blocked off, so the main compartment warms up
while the freezer compartment stays frozen, so to compensate I have to turn the
thermostat almost all the way up (or is it really down) to keep the milk cold,
wind up w/ ice cream hard as concrete, and it practically never stops running!
So, we are getting a new fridge this week, and the old Norge will become a
lager machine. I am going to block off half of the air flow to the lower
compartment (duct tape), and relocate the thermostat sensor partway up in the
open part of airduct so it is sort of inbetween the freezer and main
compartments. That way (with some experimenting), I can set the thermostat way
down, turn the freezer vane control on 'high' and keep the freezer compartment
at 0F (hop storage), and the main compartment in the mid 50Fs. Who needs an
external controller? If you want to try this, you can trace the internal
airducts pretty easily with a penlight and a darkened room after removing the
internal fan cover(s). After all, most home fridges are two compartments
sharing one cooling system. You just need to re-engineer the ducts to increase
the temp differential somewhat so you can raise the main compartment temp yet
continue to use the freezer.
- - ---------------------------------------------------
I'd like to see more discussion on home-made mills. I've got lots of ideas!
Maybe a future post, as I've spewed enough already for one digest.
Dave Hinkle
Phoenix, AZ
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Algis R Korzonas <korz@pubs.ih.att.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 96 16:16:46 CDT
Subject: Wort Cooling/sparge level/crystal in mash?/ads/slow grains/ppg/hop hearts
Gregg writes:
>I 've brewed only a few batches of beer but now I have conflicting
>advice on cooling the wort prior to pitching yeast. I don't have a
>chiller yet. C. Papazian (Beginners guide to HB..) says beginners can
>add the Hot wort to the cold water in primary, but John J. Palmer
>(http:/realbeer.com/spencer/howtobrew1st.html/ ) says no way! John
>says to cool the wort in your sink with ice surrounding the kettle.
>So what is the best way for a beginner brewer to chill? Will Charlie's
>easier method cause offtastes?
Chilling before aerating is the important part. Charlie's method of
pouring hot wort through a sieve is a recipe for HSA (see my other
post). I'll bet that much of the "big improvements" that homebrewers
get in their beer when switching from extract to all-grain could very
well be that they *had* to get a wort chiller when they boiled the
whole 6-7 gallons in the kettle. I started doing full-boils long before
I started all-grain and the difference between pouring hot wort into
cold water in a carboy and chilling with a wort chiller before aerating
was the biggest improvement in my brewing. It was the difference between
"yes, this is drinkable" and "wow, this is close to SNPA!"
Now, I recommend that beginners start by pouring their hot wort into a
***pail*** of cold water, but I tell them to use grain bags and hop bags
for the grains and hops and fish them out before pouring. I tell them
to NOT use a funnel and to pour very smoothly and carefully, so as to
minimize aeration. After the the wort is stirred gently, then I tell them
to stir vigorously to aerate. It is important to note that this is done
into a 7.5 gallon (or so) plastic pail and NOT into a carboy with a
funnel.
***
Wayne writes:
>I understand that I
>must always keep the water level above the grain in the latuer tun to avoid
>a stuck sparge. But, I need to use a set amount of water to sprage, say
>3 gallons, just for a good round number. Seems that when I get near the end of
>the 3 gallons, the water level MUST drop below the level of the grain. Am I
>missing something here?
Unless you are using something very sticky, like raw wheat or flaked barley,
you should be able to run out of sparge water and the runnings should keep
on running for a while, even if the grain bed starts to compact. If you
have a lot of rye malt in your mash or are using some other sticky grains,
like those mentioned above, you may want to continue to float your mash
by making more sparge water than you need and then simply stop taking
runnings when you have collected the amount you desire (typically 6 or
7 gallons).
>Also, the recipe calls for a quantity of crystal malt. In extract brewing, the
>crystal malt is typically steeped as the wort is brought to a boil. Do I do the
>same here, or am I supposed to use the crystal malt in the mash as well.
You can just steep it, and this will prevent the dextrins in the crystal malt
from being converted to fermentables, but typically, brewers will put all
the grains in the mash together and control the fermentability by choosing
the mash temperatures and times carefully.
***
Guy writes:
>I submit that doofus posts and intrusive goofy
>advertising is part of the price of freedom in this venue. How do you know
>you want to subscribe if you can't download and lurk for a while? If an
>exclusive club is what HBD wants, this place will quickly lose both quality
>and me.
My suggestion would not prohibit anyone from downloading the HBD or, for
that matter getting it via r.c.b. The only thing that it would prohibit
is posting unless you are a subscriber. I belong to other mailing lists
in which this is already built-in. I spoke with Shawn off-line and the
added overhead of keeping lists of valid logins was said to be too cumbersome.
Also it would not prevent anyone from subscribing, posting ads and then
unsubscribing. If it gets worse, perhaps more people will think it's not
such a bad idea. Let's face it -- most people lurk quite a while before
posting anyway.
>I can't stop furniture stores from advertising during hockey games, either.
Sure you can -- move to Chicago where Mr. Wirtz (the owner of the Hawks)
does not allow home games to be televised! (Yes, I'm embarrassed for Chicago!)
>Stuck or slow sparges with wheat, rye, and oats, are all due to the fine
>grain size of the material clogging up the pore spaces between barley
>grains.
Not exactly. These grains are high in very viscous substances such as
beta-glucans and since most brewers don't do beta-glucan rests (I forget
the temperature -- see how often I do them!) the wort is very thick and
syrupy. That's what causes the slow runoff. Flaked and whole unmalted
barley are just as bad.
***
> read in the All-Grain Zymurgy special issue that PPG is defined as:
>
> (SG - 1) * 1000 * gallons
> -------------------------------
> # of grain
>
>Is gallons measured directly after the sparge and before the boil or is it
>measured after the boil?
>
>SG:
>
>When a recipe publishes the Starting Gravity, is that for the 6.5 gallons of
>runnings or the 5 gallons of wort?
I seem to recall posting about this just a few weeks ago... You need to
measure the volume (gallons) and the SG at the same time. If you measure
them both pre-boil, you get the efficiency of your mashing and lautering.
If you measure them post-boil (in your fermenter), you get the efficiency
of your whole system (i.e. accounting for losses to trub, spillage and wort
trapped in your hops).
***
Stan writes:
>So, what's "the heart of the hop"????
This info comes via Dennis Davison who got it directly from Miller.
Miller extracts isomerized alpha acids from Galena hops. They then use
those in their other beers. There are still some alpha acids left in
these hops after the extraction, so they use those for the new Miller Beer.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Chris <NAYLORCH@kaboom.south.slcc.edu>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:53:40 MST
Subject: Funky Taste
In an attempt to make a 'soda bear' for my lovely wife.....
I did a fruit batch for the first time and am very unhappy. I got
the receipe from a clerk at a brew shop I don't go to any more. I am
still an extract brewer and these are the details: 3# Munton/fison
wheat DME, 2# Light DME, 1# Dextrose and 1 pkg EDME dry yeast.
I used Spring water from my parents well for Brew/top off water and
to rehydrate the yeast. Ive used this water consitantly for both
light and dark bears with no trouble. I boiled everything for 20
minutes. At bottling time I had a slightly yeasty light wheat brew
that was pretty good. I added 3/4 cup priming sugar and a 5 oz
bottle of pear flavour from Hop-Tech, the stuff tasteds like a pear
and supposidly had absolutly no yeast food in it. At seven days it
was horrid, at 20 it was better but still had this 'off taste'. All
of the non-beer drinkers that have tried the stuff think its great, I
HATE IT! I recently tried some beers I have not had before, the
Bishops Finger Kentish Ale someone suggested is very nice, The
Coopers Sparkling ale has the exact 'off taste' as my pear brew. Is
this an ester (sp) taste? Any input about what this is and how to
git OR NOT GIT this taste would be greatly appreciated.
TIA
Chris at naylorch@kaboom.south.slcc.edu
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper@a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 16:24:13 -0400
Subject: Requesting info on EKU beer
Hi all, I'm looking for information on a German beer named "EKU"
This ale has a very unique flavor and is somewhat rare here in
Michigan. The label states that the brew is 28^ Plato and you
wouldn't want to drink a six-pack! But the flavor is great.
I have heard a rumor that this brewery has gone backrupt and that
the cases that have appeared in the stores of late are being
clearanced by the importer. Any of you know anything about this?
While we are on the topic does anyone have any clone recipes
(extract or all grain would be welcomed) or knowledge about this
brew. TIA!
Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Pine Haven Brewery <--
ccooper@a2607.cc.msr.hp.com --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <--
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Jay Reeves <jay@ro.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 15:12:19 -0500
Subject: Hose length/carbonation
Can anyone tell me if this is true reguarding psi drop
for line length/diameter:
size psi drop per foot
3/8" ID 0.25
1/4" ID 0.85
3/16" ID 2.2 - 3
My problem is that I use the 3/16" and am experiencing no
where near the 2.2 -3 psi drop per foot.
I carbonated and serve at 12psi. I figured the hose
length 2 different ways: 1) all the pressure drop
across the hose length and 2) pressure drop over the
line length and spigot (thru the door mount).
Both methods produced about the same results.
I figured 5.4 ft of 3/16" hose needed to drop that 12 psi.
Opened the tap and the beer/foam comes out at warp. I
finally got my hose length up to 16 feet to get the right
pressure at the tap: 0.5 psi or 1 pint every 10-15 seconds.
I know my regulator's not wrong - checked it against 2
other guages and check the pressure in the keg. I know the
beer's carbonation is right because it had it's carbonation
with the 16 ft line. The drop I experienced was .75psi per
foot.
What gives?
-Jay Reeves
Huntsville, Alabama, USA
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Wolfe@act.org
Date: Mon, 20 May 96 14:48 CST
Subject: 1st Iowa City Homebrew Classic
Here are the results from the FIRST IOWA CITY HOMEBREW CLASSIC, held on May
18th, 1996. There were a total of 167 entries from brewers in 11 states.
Winners from states in the midwest receive points toward the Midwest
Homebrewer of the Year Award.
American Ale Entries = 9 Average = 39.6
1 Pete Diltz THIRSTY
2 Mike Hansen THIRSTY
3 Duane Maki THIRSTY
American/German Light Lager Entries = 8 Average = 35.7
1 Duane Maki THIRSTY
2 Duane Maki THIRSTY
3 Wayne Bowman THIRSTY
Belgian/Lambic/Fruit Entries = 11 Average = 33.7
1 Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori THIRSTY
2 Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori THIRSTY
3 Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori THIRSTY
HM Wayne Bowman THIRSTY
Bock/Barley Wine/Strong Ale Entries = 7 Average = 33.5
1 Steve Pelzer Muscatine, IA
2 Mark & Todd Taylor Verdigris Valley Homebrewers
3 Delores Thompson THIRSTY
Brown Ale Entries = 17 Average = 31.5
1 John Denny THIRSTY
2 Paul Henning THIRSTY
3 Paul Henning THIRSTY
California Common Entries = 5 Average = 34.1
1 Christopher Weirup Chicago, IL
2 Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori THIRSTY
3 Arthur Steinhoff King Gambrinus Court of Brewers
English Bitter Entries = 8 Average = 35.6
1 Mike Hansen THIRSTY
2 Mike Hansen THIRSTY
3 Ron Elshang Minnesota Timber Worts
English Pale Ale Entries = 8 Average = 34.4
1 Carl Eidbo Prairie Homebrewing Companions
2 Wayne Theuer Minnesota Timber Worts
3 Mark & Todd Taylor Verdigris Valley Homebrewers
German Ale Entries = 8 Average = 31.9
1 Chris Kaufman Derby Brew Club
2 Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori THIRSTY
3 Ron Elshang Minnesota Timber Worts
German Dark Lager Entries = 7 Average = 29.7
1 Mike Rivard Chicago Beer Society
2 Ron Elshang Minnesota Timber Worts
3 Kenneth Butler Kansas City Biermeisters
German Wheat Entries = 16 Average = 32.8
1 John Denny THIRSTY
2 John Denny THIRSTY
3 Mike Rivard Chicago Beer Society
Herb/Specialty Entries = 8 Average = 33.4
1 Mike Hansen THIRSTY
2 Jack Standefer & Paul Brower Coralville, IA
3 Kenneth Butler Kansas City Biermeisters
Pilsner Entries = 11 Average = 30.9
1 John Tossberg Des Moines, IA
2 Craig Smith Mt. Vernon, IA
3 Wayne Bowman THIRSTY
Porter Entries = 6 Average = 31.5
1 Michael Richardt Cedar Rapids, IA
2 Bruce Klotz THIRSTY
3 Robert Ward DeKalb, IL
Scottish/Smoked Entries = 11 Average = 32.8
1 Chris Kaufman Derby Brew Club
2 Mike Rivard Chicago Beer Society
3 Mark Granner THIRSTY
Stout Entries = 13 Average = 29.8
1 Mark & Todd Taylor Verdigris Valley Homebrewers
2 J.R. & Jake Reefe Omaha, NE
3 Wayne Theuer Minnesota Timber Worts
Vienna/Oktoberfest Entries = 8 Average = 32.4
1 Arthur Steinhoff King Gambrinus Court of Brewers
2 Christopher Weirup Chicago, IL
3 Ron Elshang Minnesota Timber Worts
Best of Show Mead
1 Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori THIRSTY Lemon/Ginger Metheglin
2 Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori THIRSTY Cranberry Melomel
3 Ed Wolfe & Carol Liguori THIRSTY Traditional Mead
Best of Show Beer
1 Pete Diltz THIRSTY American Pale Ale
2 Carl Eidbo Prairie Homebrewing Companions IPA
3 Duane Maki THIRSTY American Cream Ale
- ------------------------------
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From: MURR@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu
Date: Mon, 20 May 96 22:41:33 GMT
Subject: Getting Started
Hello, my name is Chris Murr, and I have been very interested in starting my
own brewing process at home. I was wondering (since I know nothing about the
industry) if someone had any insight as to what the most economical method of
getting started would be for someone like me. I am a college student and do
not have much money, BUT I LIKE TO DRINK BEER!! I used to work at a
microbrewery here in Norman,OK...home of the University of Oklahoma Sooners; I
liked their beer very much...especially their darker beers like the Porters and
the Stouts. If someone can help me with a "get started quick and cheap" speech
or something like that, I would be very greatful.
Drinkin' a beer,
The Murrman.
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Rob Moline <brewer@kansas.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 96 22:43:37 GMT
Subject: Various Topics
>From: Ken Willing <kwilling@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
>Subject: Priming w/wort or dextrose: Crabtree
>
>I wonder if anyone out there would care to venture an adjudication of this.
>If my wort priming (which I claim results in too much esteriness) is not
>doing me any more good, oxygen-wise, than dextrose priming, I'd obviously
>like to stop priming with wort.
Al's argument sound's good to me. But I don't claim to know as much as some
folks.
>Date: Sat, 18 May 96 11:00 EDT
>From: cdp@chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard)
>Subject: Infection from dry hopping
>
>If, as has been written in justification of dry hopping, the acidity and hop
>level of the brew inhibits infecting organisms, why do most of us bother
>with sanitizing kegs, bottles and racking equipment?
Acidity, ETOH levels and hops INHIBIT, they don't prevent. Sanitizing is a
preventative measure that that also inhibits, but doesn't prevent. Just
think about the fellow who sneezes into his wort. Just because he doesn't
get an infection in any particular batch doesn't mean that sneezing into
every batch is good technique! When I relate my practice of not running an
iodophor on my kegs, that works for me because I have run a high temp
caustic for cleaning. But I don't think many organisms can survive the
cleaning! The bottom line here is that spoilage organisms like an organic
deposit, left behind after cleaning, to feast upon, until something equally
supportive or better, like your wort comes along. But they can also just
float into the batch or be trapped in a crack or fissure in equipment.
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 09:17:54 +0100
>From: Kirk R Fleming <flemingk@usa.net>
>Subject: Gelatin Finings & Autolysis
>
>Q1: Is it possible that the action of the gelatin in precipitating the yeast
>also encapsulates the yeast flocs or in some other way acts on them to
>eliminate or reduce autolysis?
Seems possible to me. You state that you have gone from primary to secondary
to tertiary (conditioning), by which time residual yeast load must be small.
I don't think you could eliminate it, reduce it maybe. Makes me think of the
bottle of Ballantine Burton Ale I have locked away for a rainy day. There is
a definite yeast load present in the bottom of the bottle. Keeping in mind
that this was brewed in 1946 and bottled in 1961, and that Alan Eames
reports that this beer is 'bulletproof,' displaying no defects, really
throws a loop in this brewers thinking. Seems to me that autolysis is
promoted by a deep yeast layer, that is 'insulated' and heat generating?
>
>Q2: How might the question be answered empirically?
>
Sounds like a question for Tracy.
>Q3: Does anyone give a flip?
>
You bet!
>From: cerevis@mcs.net (Christopher Weirup)
>Subject: messy white stuff...
> I have a pale ale in the secondary right now and I noticed white
> particles on the top. They look like spores or lilly pads, if that
> helps describe them.
> I have no idea what this could be, I am being to worry that the
> homebrew is contaminated.
I think your beer is contminated.
>From: FxBonz@aol.com
>Subject: kennyeddy's fermentation chiller
>
>Does anybody have a source for the two inch insulation board that Ken call
>for in his fermentation chiller plans.
Local buiding supply stores round here just call it 'styrofoam' and 2"x4'x8'
goes for $11.15.
>From: TPuskar@aol.com
>Subject: Kegging
>1. How long will keg beer last? My batches (in bottles) hang around for 3-4
>months. Will beer in a keg last that long? Longer?
Yes. Beer is like a human being, if it's well born (well made), and taken
care of, it can last for a long time.
>2. Related to the above question, once filled and tapped, do I need to keep
>the CO2 tank attached or can it be removed to another keg?
You may remove it at will. I assume you're talking about soda kegs.
>
>3. Do kegs require refrigeration after tapping? Can I store them at room
>temp and put them into the fridge when I want to serve from them and then
>take them back out to room temp until next time? Fridge space may be tight.
Fluctuating temps never appealed to me. Once in the fridge, leave it there.
>4. I see a lot of different prices for systems ranging from about $150 to
>near $200. I imagine the guages are the part that varies most. Any
>brands/manufacturers which are better or worse than others?
Cornelius, Tap-Rite, NADS, or Norgren are good. I use Tap-Rite's at the
moment for no particular reason.
>From: "Stanley A. White/620664/PPI/EKC"
>Subject: Heart of the Hops
>
>Okay, the wife asked a stumper. Saw the Miller beer ad and asked" if the
>"heart of the hop"
>is so good, why aren't you using it" in my homebrews.
>
>So, what's "the heart of the hop"???? (and do they have other internal
> organs of distinction??)
Tell your beers have the 'heart of your soul' and are therefore better!
Heart of the hops is just another marketing term that is supposed to give
some measure of dinstinction to a product to make it stand out from the
crowd. Like cold filtering by Miller, "Gee, I don't know anyone who filters
warm?" (Commercially.) Soon to come to a market near you, Coor's
reintroduction of the 'Church Key' can, labeled with nostalgic labels, and
complete with official Coor's church key can openers!
Cheers!
Rob Moline
Little Apple Brewing Company
Manhattan, Kansas
"The more I know about Beer, the more I realize I need to know about
Beer!"
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Joe Rolfe <onbc@shore.net>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 19:06:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: RE: Rye Beers
hello all
have been seeing much to do about this thread here and in the beer
newgroup.
fwiw, here are some tid bits i have found brewing with rye, and agreed
some is a little different set up that the average homebrew brewery:
we have found that rye flakes vary wildly in content (no plugs for anyone)
but the briess appears to be the most consistant over all. we have tried
EDME and found not as apparent a flavor contribution. we have also tried
these flake from crosby/baker (BAY STATE) and found them to be the least
favorable (long runoff, not totally gelatinzed etc). briess aslo has the
malted rye which we feel adds more rye like flavor. raw rye has not been
been used to date (just for lack of availability in most cases - but that
may change). there are many vendors for these rye products - some of which
wont talk to anyone who order less than a rail car full.
our beer uses 20% rye of which 50/50 malted and flaked. haze tend to be
a problem more or less a perm haze that eventually will settle. if you want
to clear it up irish moss (flakes - real stuff) seems to work quite well.
i have not tried the breakbrite or look alikes on them. again one thing to
insure is proper pH all the way thru (mash, sparge and adjust the kettle if
you have to).
the process that works well for us (11% open false bottom).. hot mash 155F
plus, thin mash (4:1 or so) a stiff mash will make for a much longer runoff.
usually we can runof in under 2hrs (nearly 5bbl - we are small;/ with a stiff
mash (2:1 or so) it will usually take 3 to 3.5. start sparge asap keep the
sparge hotter than normal and as the grain bed heats up, you can lower. we
see the best runoff once the bed is above 172 to 174. mashout would help
but we have a _ too small mash tun_ so we infuse with 185 F water for 30
minutes and lower after that to 175ish. this big key is hot and thin.
our kettle pH requires no addition of acid (for our recipe- enough darker
malts). kettle pH starts at 5.4@60F and we are right on after the boil 5.2
@60F....the temp is put in due to the mass confusions over "what the pH should
read at what temp"...this is another story....
anyway that is our process - anyone who has a vendor for raw rye - i'd like to
hear from you and your history with it....
good luck with'em
joe
- ------------------------------
------------------------------
From: Dan Aleksandrowicz <bbh@execpc.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 20:17:25 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Rye problems
In HBD 2038; the topic of slow runoff with a rye beer was discussed. I usually
recommend rice hulls for a high per cent adjunct beer. The rice hulls don't
add any flavor, just more husk to the filter bed.
Where I brew, we do a Pumpkin Lager for Halloween. (a nice beer IMHO)
In a 495 lb grain bill (450 lb 2-row) we add 18 #10 cans of pumpkin to the
mash. (I think that comes to 108 lbs) Without rice hulls, it's like lautering
a cinder block. With 50 lbs of rice hulls, it runs off like a regular
all-malt beer.
This year, we did a Blackberry Wheat Ale. (a *WONDERFUL* beer IMHO)
In a 755 lb grain bill, 300 lbs is wheat. (around 40% wheat) Again, 50 lbs
of rice hulls did the trick.
For a 5 gallon batch, about 1/2 lb added to the mash should be sufficient.
That's the amount for a 5 gallon batch, of Pumpkin beer, using 3 lbs of
pumpkin.
This should add about $0.35 to your brew, and give you a less stressful runoff.
Dan Aleksandrowicz
bbh@execpc.com
- ------------------------------
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From: Jim Griggers <brew@devine.columbiasc.ncr.com>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 22:43:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Another Hunter Airstat problem
I have had a new problem with the Hunter Airstat that I thought I would
pass along. In addition to the problems with a bad zener diode in its
power supply, it appears that the power relay used to switch the load
(in this case your refrigerator or freezer) can stick in the on
position.
When it happens, the switch setting on the front of the unit has no
effect, even when switched to the off position. When the temperature
gets below freezing, the display only reads "LO".
I found this out the hard way (twice), with the result being a couple of
corny kegs frozen solid. The first time it happened, I decided to get a
real temperature controller (Johnsons A319), but the part had to be ordered.
So I reconnected the Hunter after its relay started working again (I guess after
it cooled off). Well, it worked fine for almost another week, but tonight
I have an English Brown Ice and an Oatmeal Stout Ice.
I was using the Hunter to control a 20 cu. ft. freezer, so the compressor ran
until it reached the internal thermostat's setting of around -5F. If you use
the Hunter to control a refrigerator, obviously your beer won't freeze, but if
you use it for lager fermentation, you could halt the fermentation as the temp.
drops to the refrigerator's built-in temperature setting.
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __
|\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/|
|Jim Griggers brew@devine.columbiasc.ncr.com Columbia, SC|
|Palmetto State Brewers http://www.scsn.net/~psbrewer |
|______________________________________________________________|
- ------------------------------
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From: rq@lysator.liu.se
Date: Mon, 20 May 96 18:17:28 +0000
Subject: Sweed gale seeds
Hello,
As I was reading Rajotte's book Belgian Ale the
other day I got interested in the recipe
"Santa calus magic potion". Only problem is, what
is 'sweet gale seeds'???????????
I couldn't find it in a English-Swedish dictionary.
Anyone willing to explain???
Private e-mail is fine.
///////\ //////\ / / /\
/ / \ / / /\
/ / \ / / /\
//////\ //////\ / ///\
/ / /\ / / /\
/ / /\ / / /\
////////\ / /\ / / /\
|||||||| Erik Roennqvist
| | Linkoeping University
| |||| Sweden
| | |
| | | rq@lysator.liu.se (preferred)
| |||| y95eriro@isy.liu.se
|||||||| y95eriro@cyd.liu.se
- ------------------------------
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End of Homebrew Digest #2042
****************************
