Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #2002
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/04/04 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #2002 Thu 04 April 1996
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
curacao/6-row malt/Duvel/crushing crystal/round bitters/wheat tannins/ale ferments (Algis R Korzonas)
2nd Small and Tiny Homebrew Competition (Spencer W Thomas)
hand stuck in carboy (Rolland Everitt)
Adjunct, Additives, Adultery, Advice, Astringency, Aristotle. (Russell Mast)
Re: Wort Cooling (Chris Strickland)
Hmm! Must be doing something wrong (Chris Strickland)
Mushroom Pilsner?! (H J Luer)
Mushrooms in my beer! ("Clark D. Ritchie")
Alkalinity (A. J. deLange)
Bitterness (A. J. deLange)
Re: Wadworths brewery (Nigel Townsend)
re: Adjunct question(s) (bgrant)
O2 Regulator (A. J. deLange)
Seltzer aftertaste (gravels)
RE: High FG Probs ("Palmer.John")
Kelly's in Key West (guym)
Re: Scale Watcher ("Palmer.John")
Yeast Generations and Attenuation (Douglas O'Brien)
Life of refrigerated Wyeast (Ray Gaffield)
HELP: Where do I find hops rhizomes? (Bill Press)
Re: Boiling Question / Mini - Kegs (Rosenzweig,Steve)
Beer for school lunches (guym)
Yeast for a barleywine (Orval Jewell)
Re: Wyeast 1968 - London ESB strain (Chris Cooper)
Water Questions ("John Lifer, Jr.")
******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
*
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have
ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service,
send an e-mail message to ftpmail@gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
"help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 96 14:24:16 CST
From: korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: curacao/6-row malt/Duvel/crushing crystal/round bitters/wheat tannins/ale ferments
Bart writes:
>peel, perhaps 1/10 ounce was added. The orange peel was labelled "Belgian
>bitter orange peel, curacao type"
Regarding the taste after 60 minutes of boiling:
>strong orange flavor with a bitter tinge. Definite orange color.
I'm skeptical. Curacao orange peel is not orange (it's kind of grayish-
green) and it does not add a "grocery store" orange flavour. The flavour
it adds has been called "similar to Chamomille." Incidentally, I think
that it is the yeast that gives Celis White its orange-like flavour. I
made a clone in which I did not add any orange peel at all and used the
Wyeast Belgian Witbier (#3944) and got a strong orange aroma and flavour.
***
David writes:
>Unfortunately, any discussion of the pros and cons of 6-row is scarce
>and, so far, Noonan's in BLB is the best I have been able to find. As
>many of your know, his evaluation of this type of malt is
>less-than-flattering and rather curt. Here are his misgivings and my
>questions:
>
>1)He says that this type of malt's high protein content will cause problems
>with "clairity and stability"--What does he mean by stability? Won't a
>good protein rest(s) do the trick here?
Have you ever seen very old bottles of some imports with a sort of jelly-
like white stuff in the bottom? This is coagulated protein. I suspect
that this is what Noonan's talking about. Yes, a good protein rest will
take care of those proteins.
>2)The finished beer will be darker and heavier tasting--Why is this?
>6-row is generally rated as only contributing 1.7L/lb/gal.
Hmmm... Perhaps he's thinking more tannins would mean more colour (which
it would if you're not careful), but if you watch the pH it should not be
a problem.
>3)The husk to endosperm ratio will lead to "harsh flavors"--Is he merely
>referring to tannins here? Won't attention to mash pH obviate any
>problems here?
Yes. If you watch pH, it's not a problem.
***
Ludwig writes:
>I'm from North of France, near Belgium where there's a lot of realy good
>stuff !
>One of my favorite beer is DUVEL !!
>Does somebody taste it ?
Yes. We get it here in the US and most will agree with you that it is
an excellent, world-class beer.
***
Paul writes:
> If I use the rolling pin method, how do I know when I've
> sufficientlly crushed the grains? That 3 to 5 piece rule
> leaves a little something to be desired if you don't know
> what you're looking for.
Just crush them till 90% or more of the grains are broken open.
> Since I'm not sparging (other than straining througha seive
> with cheesecloth in it), what difference does it make how
> small the grain pieces are? Wouldn't finely pulverized
> particles dissolve more readily (not the particles, the
> sugars in them)?
Earlier in his post, Paul's wife was suggesting a coffee grinder, so
this is why he asks about why pulverized grains (which is definitely
what you would get in a coffee grinder) would be a problem. Well, if
you crush the grains too fine, you won't be able to get a lot of the
husk pieces out of the wort (a lot will slip through your cheesecloth)
and you would end up boiling them.
> I heated a gallon and a half of cold water to ~150 F and
> held the grains at that temperature for about 15 minutes,
> then raised the temp to the start of boiling when I
> strained out the grains. Can I cause HSA by aerating this
> hot 'adjunct tea' by straning before adding the malt
> extract?
Yes, aerating this crystal malt and dark malt "tea" (they are not really
adjuncts -- adjucts are things like potatoes, corn, cornstarch, wheat
flour... non-malt starch sources) would cause oxidation of malt compounds
which would give similar flavours to those you get from aerating hot wort.
Not as noticeable as if you aerated the whole 5 gallons of finished 1.050
wort when it was hot, but I recommend avoiding it anyway.
***
Frank writes:
> My brewing partner and I have been fairly
>successful so far in the brews we're putting together.
>We've not tried grain brewing yet, but will get there
>eventually. One problem we've had is getting a truely
>sharp, bitter taste in our bitters. By and large, we've
>wound up with a tendency for a somewhat sweet and
>gentle bitter. What's the secret?
Sulphates! That's the key. That long, dry, bitter finish is a
result of high hop rates and high levels of sulphates. Find out
what your water has and add gypsum till you get it up to about
500-700 ppm of sulphate.
***
Michael writes:
>I just made my first all grain wheat bier. I looked in the AHA wheat beer
>book, Lager Beers, and Miller's Brewing the World great beers for infomation
>on wheat. Is astringency a problem from over sparging/ph like with barley
>based beers. I have yet to find any discussion.
Yes it is a problem but not as much as with an all-barley malt beer since
the wheat has no husks. You should still watch the pH and keep it from
getting too much over 5.8 or so.
***
Duffy writes:
>I know what happens to lager yeasts when they are fermented too warm, but
>what ill effects would fermenting an ale on the cool side have? I have a
>closet that has stayed in the 64-66 F range this winter that I would like to
>ferment in.
Sounds like a great temperature for ales. Some yeasts work rather slowly
at these temperatures, but there are very few that won't work at all. If
you use a decent-sized starter (500ml or more), virtually any yeast will
be very happy.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 16:25:26 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: 2nd Small and Tiny Homebrew Competition
Entries are now being accepted for the 2nd Small and Tiny Homebrew
Competition, through April 12. See
http://realbeer.com/spencer/AABG/Small_and_Tiny.html
or send me e-mail and I'll snail-mail you entry info ASAP.
The web page includes an on-line entry form that will create bottle
labels for you to print out and attach to your entry.
What's it about? The S&T competition recognizes those low-gravity
beers with real character. Sure, big beers are fun to make (and drink
:-), but some of the best beers I've had have been "poundable"
(that's one you can "pound" all night and still drive home).
In ordinary competitions, these beers usually don't do well, because
they're overpowered by the big guys. Well, the big guys can't enter
this competition.
Any beer with an OG 1.043 or less is eligible to enter and win! Beers
with an OG 1.035 or less get their own category ("Tiny"), too.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:24:53 -0500
From: af509@osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: hand stuck in carboy
I want to express my sincere thanks to all those who responded,
either directly or through the digest, to my plea for help. I
received quite a number of, ummm... creative suggestions as to
what to do with my carboy. Luckily, the problem solved itself
at the stroke of midnight on April 1 - the carboy slipped off
my hand without breaking.
Rolland Everitt
af509@osfn.rhilinet.gov
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:33:48 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Adjunct, Additives, Adultery, Advice, Astringency, Aristotle.
> From: Paul Ward <paulw@doc.state.vt.us>
> Subject: Adjunct Question(s)
> using adjunct grains (crystal and black patent).
Those aren't adjunct grains. Those are specialty malts. It may
sound picky, but they are two very different things.
> If I use the rolling pin method, how do I know when I've
> sufficientlly crushed the grains?
Don't powder them, and make sure that their husks are broken.
> Wouldn't finely pulverized
> particles dissolve more readily (not the particles, the
> sugars in them)?
That's the problem - the particles ALSO dissolve more readily, and you
don't want them in your beer. (Many of them become suspended rather
than dissolve, but you still don't want them in yer wort.)
> From: Tom Messenger <kmesseng@slonet.org>
> Subject: Re: additives
>
> Tom, I'm willing to help you out here. Give your wife lots of whatever it is
> that makes her "squirrely" and send her to me. I'll test and report back.
Hey! Watch that talk, mister. This is a family show. Do you want the DOJ
to bring the CDA down on the HBD?
> From: fpf@gasco.com (Frank Ferguson x3584)
> Subject: Advice on getting that "bitter" flavor
> It there something we're missing here?
Are you doing full-volume boils? If you're not, your hop utilization will
be really low. (FVB is when you boil all of it together at once, as opposed
to boiling up part of it and adding to cold water.)
> From: mcguire@hvsun40.mdc.com (Michael McGuire)
> Subject: Wheat/Astringency??
> on wheat. Is astringency a problem from over sparging/ph like with barley
> based beers. I have yet to find any discussion.
Well, unless you're doing 100% wheat, the barley in there will be as
problematic as barley anywhere else. I think there is less tannin in
wheat malt than barley malt, maybe none at all, but I don't really know.
> I used first wort hopping as suggested recently on HBD for pilsners.
> Anyone out there have experience with this?? in wheat beers
Two of my friends and I did the same thing on Sunday. Expect a full report
soon. The stuff smelled GREAT while brewing, very spicey. The sample in the
hydrometer tasted good, but not overhopped. I'm pretty hopeful.
> I had no problems with runnoff.
Neither did we. We decided to try using a little barley in there, and some
rice hulls, too. (I've done it without rice hulls, and it seemed to work
fine, too.)
For Seven Gallons (two batches, one 3 gal, one 4 gal, details fuzzy):
10# Belgian Wheat
2# Belgian Pils
1# rice hulls. (You fargin rice hulls!)
I don't have the whole mash schedule here. We did a step infusion mash.
We got pretty low extraction, which I usually get with so much wheat.
In the 4 gallon, we FWH'd with 1 oz Hersbrucker Hallertau 3%, and then
added 1.5 more 60 minutes before the end of the boil. In the 3 gallon, we
did no FWH, but added 2 oz. to the boil, all of it 60 minutes before the end.
Then, 15 minutes before the end, we added about 1 2/3 oz freshly grated
ginger. We'll see how it turns out.
Michael - what kind of hops and how much did you use?
> From: Bill Rust <wrust@csc.com>
> Subject: Ice Beer, Beer for Kids???
> >However, I believe in a classical education as the Great Books series of
> >Adler and Hutchison and all that stuff, and if I had a kid I would want
I would want to keep him outta the lab school lest he become an egghead with
a propensity for obscure inside jokes.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 20:00:28 -0500
From: Chris Strickland <cstrick@iu.net>
Subject: Re: Wort Cooling
> I keep my 6 gallon carboy in a plastic (metal would work) tub, with
>about 3 to 6 inches of water in the bottom. A good sized towel wrapped
>around the carboy and touching the water will act like a wick, sucking
>up the water, and cooling the wort by evaporation. That kept the wort
>temp down to about 68.
I live in Central Florida, where we think it's an Artic cold-front when it
drops to below freezing. It does get that cold a couple of days a year.
But in the summer I keep the house at 80, my carboy in a pan of water,
wrapped with a towel. It's amazing, but the wort is kept around 67F. I
wouldn't have believed that the evaporating cooling effect would drop it 13F.
>This cooling will also extend the
>fermentation time, and also result in much less violent fermentation.
>I've CC'd this to the collective, just in case I really have taken leave
>of my (few) senses and someone wants to set me straight! On the other
>hand, this may be a valuable hint! Good luck.
>
I was wondering why I don't get violent ferments anymore. They went away
about the time I starting putting my carboy in a pan of water. (Actually a
kitty litter box, clean of course).
- --------------
Chris Strickland
cstrick@iu.net
http://www.teg.saic.com/mote/people.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 20:00:51 -0500
From: Chris Strickland <cstrick@iu.net>
Subject: Hmm! Must be doing something wrong
I don't use my hydrometer anymore. I just watch the bubbles drop to about
2-3 per minute, and the beer's done.
I don't measure points, I just use a 3lb coffee can (three times) and 1lb
coffee can to scoop out my grain.
I do actually weight my hops, but don't really pay attention to the alpha
levels, though I do try and use the same type of hops.
My conversation stage temp (whatever the technical term is) is anywhere
from 150-165F.
My sparge is starts around 180-190F, I believe it drops to about 170F by the
time it hits the grain. Not sure, I just make sure it goes slow, and use
somewhere around 7 gallons of water. I think that's out big my water bucket is.
But darn it, the beer keeps coming out tasting good. What the heck am I
doing right? Maybe one day I'll start paying more attention to the
scientific stuff.
So what's this moron trying to say? For you newbies out there, worrying,
well darn it, just stop it. Make the beer, drink it and relax.
- --------------
Chris Strickland
cstrick@iu.net
http://www.teg.saic.com/mote/people.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 10:13:12 +0500
From: hjl@harpo.wh.att.com (H J Luer)
Subject: Mushroom Pilsner?!
Regarding mushroom "Pilsner"...Al Stevens is the victim of
a punster. Germans frequently refer to pilsner beer as "pils"
and usually order it as such. The pronunciation is identical
to "Pilz" which is German for "mushroom". There is no connection
to the flora of the Czech Republic.
Hank
.//'
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 1996 17:45:56 -0800
From: "Clark D. Ritchie" <ritchie@ups.edu>
Subject: Mushrooms in my beer!
All,
I don't know about you, but I find this recent thread on mushroom beer
rather amusing. For the record, I agree with Steve Alexander that many
mushrooms are poisionous and should be avoided. Other mushrooms, however,
are quite tasty and in fact, can make really great beer!
Here in the Pacific North West, it rains a lot and the damp environment is
ideal for all sorts of wild mushrooms. As a result, local brewers have
adapted amazingly well and many have developed quite a repetoire of
mushroom-related beers. Some, in fact, are so wonderful that they'll keep
you up for hours just thinking (as if in circles) about them!
If you are ever in this neck of the woods, check out some of the local
favorites like Cubenza Cream Ale, Blue Ringer Stout, Fat Cap Lager and my
personal favorite, Psilocybin Porter. You won't believe your eyes... CDR
PS - Make sure you eat the sediment at the bottom of the bottle!
Clark D. Ritchie, ritchie@ups.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:28:37 -0500
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Alkalinity
In #2000 Ken Schwarz asked for discussion of alkalinity. The following
picture may help in understanding of what follows.
x = Carbonic * = bicarbonate o = carbonate
100% x x x x * * * o o o o o o o o o
x * * o
x * * o
x * * o
x * * o
x o
* x o *
* x o *
* x o *
* x *
0% * * * * * o o o o o o o x x x x x x x * * * * * *
| | | | |
pH 4.3 6.38 8.35 10.32 12.6
The diagram shows the percentages of each of the types of ion in a
carbonate solution. The relative concentrations depend upon the pH. The
ASCII art is crude so some key pH's are marked. At pH 4.3 99% of the ions
are carbonic, 1% bicarbonate and while carbonate ions are present they are
orders of magnitude less present than bicarbonate. At pH 6.38 carbonic and
bicarbonate are present in equal amounts (about 50% each) and carbonate
unappreciable. At pH 8.35, 98% of ions are bicarbonate and there are about
1% carbonic and carbonate. At 10.32 bicarbonate and carbonate are at equal
concentration (about 50%) and carbonic is unappreciable and at pH 12.6 all
but about 1% of ions are carbonate ions. The curves are easily constructed.
Calculate r1 = 10^(pH - 6.38) and r2 = 10^(pH - 10.32). The fraction of
carbonic is then 1/(1 + r1 + r1*r2), the fraction of bicarbonate is r1
times this and the fraction of carbonate is r2 times the bicarbonate
fraction.
The total alkalinity is defined as the number of millilitres of "normal"
acid required to change the pH of 1 L of the water sample to 4.3 which pH
is chosen because the indicator methyl orange begins to show a color change
at that point and at that pH most (99%) of the ions have been converted to
carbonic. One milliliter of "normal" acid contains 1 milliequivalent of
hydrogen ions and thus the definition of total alkalinity is the number of
milliequivalents of H+ required to bring one litre of the test water to a
pH where virtually all the bicarbonate and carbonate have been converted.
If you put 50 mg of calcium carbonate into a litre of water and slowly add
acid to the point where pH 4.3 is reached you will find that 1
milliequivalent of acid was required. Somewhere along the line someone
decided that it would be nice to have alkalinity reflect the amount of
calcium carbonate dissolved and so the practice of expressing alkalinity in
mg/L (or ppm) "as CaCO3" came into being. This causes lots of confusion
because it is really only another way of expressing the number of
milliequivalents. All alkalinty does not come from calcium carbonate. It
may also come from sodium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, sodium
bicarbonate etc. To express alkalinity "as CaCO3", multiply
milliequivalents per litre (mEq/L) by 50.
As Ken mentioned in his post, life is easy if the pH is less than 8.35 (as
it is for most but not all drinking waters). Below this pH the only thing
in the solution to convert to carbonic is bicarbonate (ignoring the tiny
amount of carbonate). The reaction is HCO3- + H+ --> H2CO3 which indicates
that 1 milliequivalent of acid converts one millimole of bicarbonate ion to
carbonic. Thus the total alkalinity is the amount of bicarbonate in the
water both, at this point, expressed as milliequivalents. Multiplying by 50
gives "as CaCO3" units but remember that this is just another way of
expressing the milliequivalents. It does not mean that that much calcium
carbonate is or ever was in the water nor that caclium carbonate was the
source of the bicarbonate ions. In fact if the water is natural much of the
bicarbonate probably came from dissolved CO2. The ppm for bicarbonate ion
is obtained by multiplying the mEq/L by 61.
If the pH is above 8.35 the amount of carbonate starts to become
appreciable as does the concentration of hydroxyl ions. The alkalinity is
now the amount of acid required to convert the bicarbonate to carbonic PLUS
the amount required to convert the carbonate PLUS the amount required to
neutralize the hydroxyl ions. Carbonate converts as CO3-- + 2H+ --> H2CO3
which says that TWO milliequivalents of acid are required for the
conversion of each millimole of carbonate. The amount of carbonate present
in a water at pH > 8.35 can be determined by adding acid until pH 8.35
(usually 8.3 is used as this is the pH at which the indicator
phenolpthalein changes) is reached. This is the pH at which the carbonate
is converted to bicarbonate by CO3-- + H+ --> HCO3-. Thus the number of
milliequivalents required to do this is equal to the number of millimoles
of carbonate present and is sometimes referred to as the "phenolpthalein
alkalinity". This is, as above, multiplied by 50 to give the phenolpthalein
ALKALINITY as ppm CaCO3. In what has got to be the most confusing thing in
water chemistry, the amount of calcium carbonate which causes a
phenolphtalein alkalinity of P (as CaCO3) is 2P because twice as much acid
is required to convert from carbonate to carbonic as from carbonate to
bicarbonate and the "as CaCO3" definition can be thought of as being based
on total conversion.
What all this means is that of one wishes to compute the alkalinity of a
water he has synthesized he must sum the number of millimoles/L of all
bicarbonates he adds (computed by dividing the milligrams/L of the salt by
the gram molecular weight of the salt) with TWICE the sum of the number of
millimoles/L of all the carbonates. This is the total alkalinity expressed
as milliequivalents per litre and I wish everyone would use these units
instead of mg/L as CaCO3 but they dont so multiply mEq/L by 50 to get mg/L
(ppm) as CaCO3.
In attempting to synthesize water from a given profile one needs r1 and r2
which are easily calculated if either the pH or the
carbonic/bicarbonate/carbonate rations are given. In the typical case where
one is attempting to sythesize, say, Munich water, the pH is usually not
given and a number for "carbonate" or "bicarbonate" is given without it
being clear exactly what that is. While it is reasonable to assume that it
refers to bicarbonate we usually don't know whether the value is in ppm as
CaCO3 or ppm as HCO3- or ppm as CaO.
To do the synthesis one makes an assumption about what "carbonate" means
then "experiments" (in a computer) with varying salt additions trying to
minimize some function (I use the log of the ratio) of the ion
concentrations brought about by the trial salt additions and the desired
ion concentrations. The unknown pH can be dealt with in several ways. It
can be a "don't care" parameter, i.e. allowed to go to any value to which
it must in order to mimimize the ion concentration error. The analyst
(actuallu synthesist) can then decide whether the resultant pH is
reasonable. The pH can also be constrained to remain within certain limits
or it can be fixed at a chosen value and the ion concentrations optimized
based on this constraint. This is the approach to take when the pH is
known. Another big problem in trying to synthesize the published profiles
is that some of them have become distorted with passage about the
literature and among members of the community. A quick check of many of the
popularly accepted profiles shows that they are not nearly electrically
neutral and thus must be in error. As our syntheses must be neutral there
may be large errors in idividual ion concentrations.
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Apr 1996 23:28:58 -0500
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Bitterness
In #2000 Francis Ferguson complains about not being able to get sharp
bitterness in bitter. The secret is a combination of hop variety, hoping
amounts and schedule and sulfate ion. Bitters are not that highly hopped
(to my way of thinking) in the range of high 20's to mid 30's. Sulfate ion
concentration should be around 300 ppm ( 1 gram of gypsum in 1 gal of water
will give about 147 ppm, 1 gram of epsom salts in 1 gal 103). To hit a
controlled level you should know the starting sulfate content of the water
but as you are not getting the bitterness bite we can assume that your
water is low in sulfate and you can probably just forge ahead blind. With
some beers having sulfate contents over 500 ppm you don't need to worry
about overshooting a bit.
The hops variety chosen will change the quality of the bitterness with the
high alpha varieties generally having a "coarse" quality. I would think in
terms of Fuggles and Kent Goldings for ales but note that Terry Foster (who
knows a hell of a lot more about ales than I do) recommends Bullion,
Cluster and Northern Brewer for bittering and Cascades, as well as
Goldings, for aroma in his recipes.
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 15:25:28 +1000
From: nigelt@delm.tas.gov.au (Nigel Townsend)
Subject: Re: Wadworths brewery
Thanks to Spencer W Thomas and Dan Aldrich who provided information on Old
Timer and Wadworths Brewery. Still got no Email address so it looks like I
will have to use snail mail.
It appears that this brew is made with "Pipkin pale malt". Is "Pipkin" a
variety of grain, or is it the company that sells it? Does any one know?
The local home brew shop had'nt heard of it. Many thanks.
Nigel Townsend
Hobart, Tasmania
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 08:19:22 PST
From: bgrant@CCGATE.HAC.COM
Subject: re: Adjunct question(s)
Paul Ward writes:
>Well, I', finally moving up one carefull notch at a time in this
>brewing hobby. After several all extract batches, I brewed
>'Elbro Nerkte' this past weekend, which was my first experience
>using adjunct grains (crystal and black patent).
(snip some all-too familiar stuff)
whew! so I haven't been the only one...
Sounds like your wife and my wife would get along just fine, Paul, and
you and I would probably do well together too.
I spent near an hour trying to crack my first 1/2 lb of crystal using
a wooden rolling pin with not too much success (who's idea was that
anyways?? :-) My wife asked me to please clean up all the grain off
the floor when I was finished, trying not to giggle - I was armed,
after all!
If it is any consolation, I'm going to try the coffee mill for grinding
the grains in my next batch. It is a coffee porter, so I figure using
the mill will be a good omen.
Good luck to us both; I bet our wives love our beer regardless!
Bruce Grant
White Rock, B.C.
(presently on assignment on Geneva, and quite dissapointed with
Swiss beer so far...the best has been imported from Belgium and
England...anyone have some tips for the region? Please? :-)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 08:34:56 -0500
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: O2 Regulator
Harry Houck asked about oxygen regulators in #2001. Oxygen has a density of
32 grams per mole and CO2 44 so oxygen is about 3/4 as dense as CO2. The
orifice in a medical rig is for metering. If you look closely at the flow
rate gauge you will probably see that it is labeled "Litres flow per miunte
through #77 drill aperture" or something similar. In other words, the gauge
measures the pressure on the upstream side of the orifice and the downsream
side is presumably at the ambient so the pressure is proportional to the
flow and the dial is calibrated in litres/min. The regulator should be
capable of controlling to pressures much lower than 40 psig. I can't help
feeling that the fact that it doesn't is somehow related to its being sold
for a buck.
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 08:56:03 EST
From: gravels@TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Subject: Seltzer aftertaste
Greetings all,
I was visiting a local brewpub last night, hoping that they
figured out how to brew beer, and I tried their Blueberry Blonde ale
and Golden Ale, each one of these brews had a harsh seltzer water kind
of aftertaste. The off-flavor was more pronounced in the Golden,
which is the lighter body ale, than it was in the Blueberry Blonde.
They actually put a teaspoon of blueberries in the glass. The
blueberries didn't impart much flavor, however, the carbonation kept
the blueberries floating up and down and I did find that rather
amusing.
My question is: What could be the cause of this flavor? I think
they figured out what was causing the overpowering, nasty,
undrinkable, malty flavor in some of their previous beers, (It's
pretty bad when there's a brewpub right next door and you can't stand
the beer) :^( I'd like to know what could be causing this problem.
Thanks.
(P.S. They did have a Pale Ale that was pretty good, maybe there's
still hope!)
Steve Gravel Newport, Rhode Island
gravels@TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
"Homebrew, it's not just a hobby it's an adventure!"
------------------------------
Date: 3 Apr 1996 07:40:48 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: RE: High FG Probs
Neal wrote that he has had systematic high Finishing Gravity problems, and
notes that his fermentation temp fluccuated between 60 - 72F.
I think that the fluccuating temperature is the most likely cause. If your
house is warm during the day and cold at night, the yeast will be thermally
stressed and drop out.
The other likely problem is a lack of yeast nutrients, though you said you
added some, it may not have been enough, based on your all-extract brews.
Good Luck,
John
John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
johnj@primenet.com Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 08:33:36 MDT
From: guym@Exabyte.COM
Subject: Kelly's in Key West
In #1998, Brian Dreckshage says:
> FYI, had a disappointing experience in Key West recently. Kellie's
> Brew Pub turned away a number of us beer hunters (after a long trip to
> there). It was odd, they were having a private party in the back but
> wouldn't serve us one stinking, single beer from their front bar.
> (They had plenty of employees around--what a bunch of jerks!)
What a shame. My company had a regional meeting in Key West about a year
and a half ago and we spent the better part of a week down there. Several
of us went to Kelly's at least once a day and had no problems being served
great food and good beer (my favorite was the Havana Red Ale). In fact,
one night there were a dozen or so of us who wandered in after spending
some time on Duval Street and they put us upstairs where no one else was.
There was a bar up there that they opened just for us. Kelly (McGillis)
herself even came up and spent some time talking at the table with us. It
was a warm, clear night with a tropical breeze blowing, great beer
(especially considering that the most exotic beer readily available on the
island is Red Stripe), and Jimmy Buffett on the sound system. I was in
heaven! There must've been some sort of "MVP" in the house when you were
there. I talked beer with Kelly so much (and drank so much of the Havana
Red) that she gave me a Havana Red Ale T-shirt before I left.
Unfortunately, I "donated" it to someone, somewhere on one of my many
business trips. I would definitely go back again. If we could have just
caught a Buffett show in Margaritaville, the trip would have been complete.
--
Guy McConnell /// Exabyte Corp. /// Huntersville, NC /// guym@exabyte.com
"You have to purge that urge to merge, you have to use your head.
Or trouble is what you will find inside some stranger's bed."
------------------------------
Date: 3 Apr 1996 07:58:44 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: Re: Scale Watcher
Scale Watcher - (1) One who continually moniters their spouse's beergut.
(2) A complete and utter scam.
There is absolutely no scientific basis for a flucuating electromagnetic field
around a metal pipe to affect ions in solution in what can be defined as a
Faraday Cage. Unless it makes the lights dim in the house, the water will never
know its there.
-John
John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
johnj@primenet.com Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/
PS. Precipitated calcium salts is the whole problem of scale! If they want to
sell their device, they should have said that it PREVENTS precipitation.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 10:58:53 -0500
From: Douglas O'Brien <Douglas.OBrien@ccrs.emr.ca>
Subject: Yeast Generations and Attenuation
In an attempt to understand why (I thought) my final gravities
recently have been higher than expected I went back over 18 batches
trying to find some correlation. I looked at ingredients (i.e. yeast
and fermentables), additives (i.e. Irish Moss, ...), fermentation
temperature... everything that I recorded.* I compared the FG with
what I calculated the FG should be based on a spreadsheet of mine
which list ingredients, their contribution to the gravity, and their
fermentability.**
None of the factors seemed significant except the generation of yeast
that was being used. (I reclaim yeast from the secondary as described
in the yeast FAQ and store it in the fridge for 3-5 weeks between
batches). In the 12 batches using 1st generation yeast my FGs were
an average of 1.3 points higher than expected (0.8 points if I remove
a rogue strawberry beer). On the other hand the 6 2nd/3rd generation
yeast batches averaged 6.5 points above what I expected.
For both 1st generation and 2nd/3rd generation yeasts I make a 2
stage starter in the same way, and there seems to be no difference
in lag times. The yeasts I use are mostly Yeast Lab A05, A09 & A04 -
in any case Ale yeasts.
At first I was surprised because I would have thought that yeast
scavenged from the secondary is yeast that 'hangs around' longer
and therefore would tend to ferment the beer more, not less. On the
other hand these are top cropping Ale yeasts that I am recovering
from the bottom of the secondary...
So does this 5 point difference surprise anyone else besides me?
Doug
* I didn't record how well I had aerated each batch and I suspect
that this would be significant.
** I don't know how accurate my calculations are but I guess that I
can argue that any error would be systematic.
- --
Douglas J. O'Brien Douglas.OBrien@ccrs.NRCan.gc.ca
Canada Centre for Remote Sensing tel: (613) 947-1287
588 Booth Street fax: (613) 947-1408
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
K1A 0Y7
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 96 11:28:21 -0600
From: Ray Gaffield <ray_gaffield@il.us.swissbank.com>
Subject: Life of refrigerated Wyeast
I just popped a packet of Wyeast Belgium Ale which is about a year
old. My question is : if the packet swells successfully , is the
yeast OK to use or is there something else that may be wrong with
old yeast ?
Thanx,
RAY
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 12:33:29 -0600
From: Bill Press <press@lip.wustl.edu>
Subject: HELP: Where do I find hops rhizomes?
Where do I buy hops rhizomes from? I want to try to grow them this
year, but don't know where to buy them. Does anyone know of any good
suppliers? How much do they go for, in general?
Thanks,
Bill Press
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 10:47:51 PST
From: Steve_Rosenzweig@wb.xerox.com (Rosenzweig,Steve)
Subject: Re: Boiling Question / Mini - Kegs
In HBD 2001: Steven Biggins asks about boiling levels:
Rule of thumb as I've picked up is about 1 gal / hour of evaporation at
a decent boil. If you are going from 6 to 3.5 gal in 90 min, it
sounds like your "rolling boil" is really rolling! Even with the rule
of thumb, you would be at about 4.5 gal. How dry/humid is your area?
I assume low humidity would increase the evap rate. What's your
elevation? Also - maybe you can adjust your cooker down somewhat to
keep a boil that isn't rolling so quickly!
If your pot is big enough, start with 7 or 8 gal . . .
*******************
In HBD 2001: Byron Schmidt makes a note about mini-kegs:
I haven't used mini-kegs in about 5 years, but when I did I carefully
removed the rubber stopper and never had a problem with rusting around
the hole. If anyone is starting out, I'd suggest getting a commercial
one - drinking that, and using the experience with that keg as a basis
for getting any more specifically for homebrewing. Then if you don't
care for the process, you can ditch it not having invested too much
and at least had some decent beer along the way.
I reused several - the only problem that I had was over priming the
first batch to go in one! I used a rate of about 1/2 cup corn sugar
and all was well until the sucker punched a corner in the top of the
keg. (It was amazing to see a 90 degree angle jut out from an
otherwise circular ring!) One leaked, others were deformed and
recycled. The beer in those kegs always seemed to taste better than
the bottles for some reason - that's why I moved to corny kegs in a
beer meister!
*******************
In HBD 2001: Ed Hitchcock is making travel plans:
Plug alert!!! I emailed Ed a lengthier version, but since I'm posting
anyway . . .
Rochester NY - Rohrbachs Brewpub is _not_ to be missed!!! (2 locations!)
Beers of the World - I defy anyone to find
a beer they don't have!!
End of plug!! No affiliation, blah blah, blah, just a really satisfied
customer!!!
********************
PZ
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 96 13:36:08 MDT
From: guym@Exabyte.COM
Subject: Beer for school lunches
Bill Rust writes:
> Just passing along a newsworthy item...
>>The colorful can of Anheuser-Busch's beer Bud Ice is deceiving
>>parents into thinking it is a soft drink. Several parents mistakenly
>>put Bud Ice in the lunch boxes of their kids and the kids took them
>>to school.
>>
>>Personally, I always thought elementary school would become less
boring with a cold one at lunch.
<snip>
>>I would want him to taste beer with deep flavors and aesthetics not
>>the Spuds MacKenzie dogwater Budweiser makes. I would pack in his
>>lunch box with beers like Guinness, Bass Ale, Newcastle Brown Ale,
>>and German beers made according to the Rheinheitsgebot.
I have a Belgian friend who lives in Huntsville, Alabama (came over for
missile training while in the Belgian Air Force, met an Alabama girl,
married her, and never went home) whose father recounted his childhood
breakfast for me. It seems that Mom would take a coffee cup, fill it
with Guinness, and stir in a whole egg for the little tyke to consume
before going off to school. In fact, one of the few phrases of perfect
English that this gentleman knows is "Guinness, it's good for you". My
kind of breakfast! Kinda gives meaning to my favorite tag line...
--
Guy McConnell /// Huntersville, NC
"And the beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad, so I had one for
dessert."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 1996 11:06:21 -0800
From: Orval Jewell <ojewell@thegrid.net>
Subject: Yeast for a barleywine
Hi all,
I have been lurking long enough (digest # 1960 was my first).
I have a quick question for the collective. The current batch of brew I
have in the fermenter is what I'm calling "Strong Red Ale," It is a
barley-wine style with an original gravity of 1.091 and it's been in the
fermenter for two days now. I used a packet of Yeast Lab Australian Ale
Dry Yeast. My question is will this yeast stand up to the expected
8.5%-9.0% alcohol or will I need to add a wine or mead style yeast to
finish the batch? Thanks.
Orval Jewell
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 14:32:40 -0500
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper@a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Wyeast 1968 - London ESB strain
Hi all, First !!! A Toast to the HBD !!! digest 2001 , the new millenium
has dawned.
In HBD 2001 George asked:
>I'm planning on making an partial mash/extract IPA this weekend (probably the
>"Classic IPA" recipe out of Noonan's Classic Beer Styles) and want to use up
>a pack of the London ESB I have before it gets to old. There's been some
>mention in recent HBDs about this yeast being one of the lowest attenuating
>of the Wyeast family. My questions are:
>
> 1) Does this mean it will just take a lot longer to ferment and/or that
> my FG may not hit the TG? (OG is 1.055 and TG is 1.012-1.014 per the recipe).
>
I think #1968 has an attenuation of 67%-71%, this would mean that a brew
that starts at 1.055 would end at 1.016-1.018, assuming that all of the
gravity points are due to fermentables (and this is seldom the case).
Depending on your grain bill I would expect your F.G. to be 1.018-1.020.
Attenuation % indicates the degree of fermentation the yeast strain
is capable of, this does not directly translate into how quickly it will
ferment. The time required for fermentation is related to pitching rate,
temperature, oxygenation, the strain's degree of flocculation, and how
you held your toungue while boiling the wort.
Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Pine Haven Brewery <--
ccooper@a2607.cc.msr.hp.com --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <--
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Apr 1996 13:39:23 -0600
From: "John Lifer, Jr." <jliferjr@felix.TECLink.Net>
Subject: Water Questions
Ok guys, I have been reading and trying to follow the posts on water
adjustment for brewing to simulate other regions in the world. One thing
that pops out at me is that after getting my local water test, (done in 1992
not very current), I then preboil the water to mainly remove the clorine and
kill any other nasties in the water that might remain. I then will add
whatever chemicals to change the water to the "right" specs. Depending on
the hardness, etc. would not I lose some of the minerals that were in the
water originally, and how would I then correlate this water to my original
water? Should I spend the dough on a separate water test? If so should I
then test post boiled water too? Or should I give up and keep brewing as I
have been (and getting relatively good beer IMHO)? Or should I just brew
with distilled water and add correct doses to adjust the water? TIA,
John in Mississippi 'Nother Illegal Brew'n fool in Mississippi
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2002, 04/04/96
*************************************
-------
