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HOMEBREW Digest #1984
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/03/14 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1984 Thu 14 March 1996
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
mutation, phenolic flavors, and Idophor (Mike Uchima)
Channel Wars (Charlie Scandrett)
Water Ion Concentrations (JamesN2405)
Source for High-Temp Hose? (Marty Tippin)
hop downy mildew (Douhan)
2 day brewing? (Brewizard)
Uncl: Calories and Finishing Gravity ("Calvin Perilloux")
Distilled Beverages (Aesoph, Michael)
Re-boiling the wort. ("Braam Greyling")
Making bread with used grains ("Braam Greyling")
Malt Liquor/Carbonation/Hangovers/Heaters (A. J. deLange)
calories ("Tracy Aquilla")
recipes (Michael Kerns)
Electric elements, wiring (Ed, Quantum PE (508) 770-2251)
("Matt S. Grady")
Two gauge regulators (David C. Harsh)
Re: Electric Boilers (Spencer W Thomas)
culturing a 3 strain yeast... (Victor J Farren)
Uncl: Beer/malt liquor ("Calvin Perilloux")
Uncl: Homebrewers in Berlin?? ("Calvin Perilloux")
Re:Help my beer is infected..Wayne Wight (Victor J Farren)
Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione/ Copyright (Bob Waterfall)
Corny Compatible (Neal Christensen)
Split-day brewing (Chris Geden)
Wire Gauges and Circuit Breakers for Electric Boilers (KennyEddy)
Large fermenter (RUSt1d?)
Re:Royal Oak pale ale (Robert Bush)
DO NOT DO THIS!!!!! (was Electric Boilers) (b.j.) grier" <bjgrier@bnr.ca>
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 15:31:46 -0600
From: uchima@fncrd8.fnal.gov (Mike Uchima)
Subject: mutation, phenolic flavors, and Idophor
lachina@interramp.com (Lorne P. Franklin) writes:
>
> Tam Thompson writes, ". . . You can usually re-use that slurry about three
> times before it starts to mutate too far into the unusable range. . . ."
>
> I've read this assertion in many places and am wondering if anyone can
> profile the flavor, bahvior, or appearance of "mutated" brewers yeast.
> I've never used yeast beyond the third generation, but am curious of the
> potential problems involved with "inbred" yeast.
I've got a strong suspicion that what we're calling "mutation" here is
actually "contamination". Unless you've got an extremely mutant-prone strain
of yeast, and/or top-notch sanitation procedures, my (uneducated) guess is
that increasing levels of wild yeast and bacteria would become a problem long
before mutation of the original strain was noticable.
Anyone more qualified care to comment?
jlee@esd.ray.com (Jerry Lee) says:
> Well the beer from hell has given it's last act of
> defiance...It has developed a definite phenolic
> aroma & flavor....could the contamination occured
> during the foaming filter I brought up just a
> few files back...or is this more of case of
> sanitation error during fermentation? Could open
> fermentation been the cause? After all the claims
> that this wasn't a problem in open fermentation...
What about fermentation temperature? Don't some yeasts produce phenolic
flavors if fermented too warm?
mikeb@flash.net (Michael T. Bell) says:
> One quick question. What is the proper dilution rate of Iodophor?
> I have read that the optimum is 25ppm. That works out roughly to 1oz per 6
> gal. In this concentration, it stains my hoses a nice shade of light
> brown, lovely but annoying. Is this to high? If it is, what is the proper
> ppm?
I usually use somewhat less than this, about 1/2 oz per 5 gallons. I still get
the brown stains at this concentration. I actually find the brown stains kind
of reassuring -- I figure if the hoses have absorbed enough iodine to stain
them like that, then nothing's gonna grow in them when they're not in use. :-)
- -- Mike Uchima
- -- uchima@fnal.gov
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 06:47:00 +1000
From: merino@cynergy.com.au (Charlie Scandrett)
Subject: Channel Wars
Rob Lauriston writes; (from Australia according to AK, been ethnically
cleansed Rob?)
>This is sometimes called 'top-dough' or by the German word 'tieg'
>(prounounced 'teague' ;-) which means dough or paste. Handy word just
>'cause it's shorter.
I honestly thought it was "tigrr", well known German typing error and
associate of Winnie the Pooh? I guess I see what I want to see.
>There is no advantage to having this layer appear on the top of the mash.
>In fact, it can be a disadvantage. Because the layer is so gluey, the
>sparge water can have difficulty penetrating it. The layer can even act
>like a piston and compact the whole bed, slowing the run-off to nil. I had
>this happen once on a 10 Hl system. This is a good reason to stir up the
>very top of the mash during lautering, so that the doughy stuff is
>distributed among the larger particles, rather than in an impermeable layer.
>The stirring also counter-acts channelling.
There is one advantage, it is the *most* effective filter of lipids in the
recycled first runnings. However its' main disadvantage is impermeability
which, besides the hydrostatic piston effect, can be uneven, leading to
channeling. I agree with mixing it with the topmost layer (1").
Al K. writes,
>I contend that stirring the grain bed increases channelling.
>This is how I justify this. Consider water running slowly through the
>grain bed. Now here comes this rake or spoon that cuts a gorge into
>the grain bed. The gorge disappears as quickly as it appeared because
>there is a layer of water on top of the grain bed. What flowed into
>the gorge? Grain? Water?
It depends on if the prudent step of stopping the flow has been carried out.
Grains *underwater* weigh very little and settle out easily and evenly
depending on size. The dry SG of well modified malt is between 0.95 and 1.0
and would float if mashing-in had not replaced entrained air with water. The
pronounced Archimedes effect of covering the bed with water means that the
other factors are that much more important. Under hydrodynamic compaction
from flow, hydrostatic compaction from teig (topdough piston effect), or
gravitational compaction from grains above the water table, the grist
particles don't settle easily into the raking void as they are "set".
Jim Cave astutely observes in the first of the rural analogies,
>No. Im not a hydrological engineer, just a stream biologist.
>Obviously, erosion develops with water velocity and with time--streams
>widen with time because of erosion. The stream analogy with a grain-bed
>would indicate that channelling would also develop with time. Anything
>that forces the process to start over again (e.g. stirring) would minimize
>the development of channels. Mind you, recirculation may be necessary
>to reset the grain bed and minimize rubidity of the wort.
All of this is sound, time and flow rate are important in the development of
channeling. If cloudy wort results from raking, it should be recycled
because of the trub, lipids and unconverted starch in it.
Also he notes,
> I've been told by a commercial brew that rather than suffer through
>a stuck mash (which often results in channeling--least flow of resistance
>and all that) complete stiring and reseting of the grainbed is preferable.
>If the mash has shown signs of sticking, it is best to do this
>right away than deal with the concrete afterwards.
>I've seen signs of channelling in the two times I've had a stuck
>mash. There was a mottling of the grainbed and parts were sweet and others
>were not. I suspect that I made the usual mistakes--recirculated too
>quickly, and too much; too fine a grind; too much grain.
Stuck sparges and channeling are different manifestations of the same thing.
Watch for uneveness in the teig and flow rate and don't be afraid to start
again.
Dave H uses a river analogy,
> heavy particles at bottom, teig-forming
>"grain dust" (and hot break) settling last on the top. Like river sediment
where
>the big rocks settle first, and so forth, until the only thing still suspended
>in the water is the silt particulate, which settles last. If you use adjuncts
>such as corn or oats, the teig is very pronounced and you get either
>channeling down the sides of the cooler, or a stuck runoff, both not a
>good situation.
>My ways around this, as you appear to have already discovered, are
>to scratch the surface of the grain bed often during the sparge (or
>even skim off some of the teig as it forms), or open the runoff flow
>rapidly at first to set the grain bed before it has time to do the gradient
>settling (or both).
The "scratching" is more useful as the recycling of *lots* of cloudy first
runnings will create a thinner but more protein/lipid concentrated teig. The
gradient effect is useful for good filtering.
Al writes from experience,
>and have subsequently disturbed the grain bed a little (8" grain beds or so).
>A quick look at my runnings showed that they had gotten a little cloudy
>suddenly, but then cleared back up quickly.
>I think that if you were to:
>1. stop taking runnings,
>2. stir the grain bed,
>3. restart taking runnings into another vessel,
>4. recirculate till the runnings are back to "pretty clear,"
>5. restart putting the runnings into the kettle,
That is exactly the technique I would recommend to stir without more
channelling. You have answered your own question Al.
but then he distinguishes between "constant" or "occasional"
>So there you have it. The bottom line is: a constant and thorough stirring
>of the mash (SNIP) will reduce channeling (SNIP),
And probably greatly increase lipids.
> but probably is not needed for infusion mashes made with properly-crushed
>grain.
OK, and pH <5.5
> Cutting the grain bed or occasional stirring will increase channeling and
>reduce the efficiency of the extraction.
The elimination of hydrodynamic (flow pressure, I'll have a method of
monitoring that in the FAQ) and extra gravitational force(exposed grain) on
the *submerged* bed will alow *any* stirring to decrease channeling. Poorly
modified malts, decoction mashed, will not settle after stirring as readily
as they are heavier. In shallow homebrew lauter beds, there is not much
hydrodynamic compaction unless the brewer is really running fast. (more on
flow rates toomorrow) Thus, uneven teig (top dough) or too few wort outlets
(see AK's excellent graphics on flow dynamics at "The Brewery") are probably
the main cause of any channeling. Any stirring of the top of the bed while
*stopped* will aleviate this. Under these conditions (stopped runnings, I
see no logical distinction between "thorough" and "partial", or constant"
and "occasional" except in the degree of the positive effect.
This thread has added greatly to the upcoming Lauter FAQ which is obviously
needed. I'll post the Channelling/Stuck Sparge extract toomorrow for comment.
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia, where we quote AK!)
My new rakes are horizontal,..... don't ask.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 19:20:57 -0500
From: JamesN2405@aol.com
Subject: Water Ion Concentrations
This table is reprinted (with permission) from Zymurgy Vol 14 No 5 (Winter
1991).
It is from an article by Jon Rodin and Glenn Colon-Bonet. I cannot vouch for
the
accuracy of the data, but it is the only summary of this type that I have
been able to find.
Beer Recommended Ion Concentrations for Beer Styles (mgl/L)
Style Ca++ Mg++ Na+ C03-- S04- - Cl-
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -----
Pale ale 100-150 20 20-30 0 300-425 30-50
Bitter 60-120 10 15-40 0 180-300 25-50
Mild 25-50 10 30-40 0 95-170 50-60
Brown ale 15-30 0 40-60 0 35-70 60-90
Scottish ale 20-30 0 12-20 0 50-70 18-30
Porter 60-70 0 40 60 50-70 60
Sweet stout 55-75 0 10-20 60-80 35-55 18-30
Dry stout 60-120 10 10-20 60-200 35-110 18-30
Pilsener 7 2-8 2 15 5-6 5
Light lager 35-55 0 20-35 0 85-130 35-55
Dark lager 75-90 0 40-60 90 35-70 60-90
Munich dark 50-75 0 5-15 60 20-35 5-20
Maerzen 30-60 0 30-40 0 70-140 45-60
Bock 55-65 0 40-60 60 35-55 60-90
Doppelbock 75-85 0 40-70 90 35-55 60-110
Alt 30-45 0 25-30 0 70-110 40-50
Weizen 15-30 0 5-15 0 35-70 10-20
Dortmunder 60-90 0 45-60 0 140-210 70-90
Jim
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 18:22:25 -0600
From: Marty Tippin <martyt@sky.net>
Subject: Source for High-Temp Hose?
I'm trying to find a source for some plastic tubing for my converted keg
system that meets the following criteria:
* FDA approved for food use
* Capable of withstanding 212F wort for extended periods of time without
plasticizing or otherwise breaking down and leeching crap into the wort
* 5/8" ID
* Available in a length of 6 to 10 feet - I don't need a 50 ft. roll!
* Flexible
* Reasonably affordable (like $5 per foot or less)
>From what I've found, Norton Norprene A-60F tubing will fit the bill but I
can't get it in anything less than 50 ft. rolls. Cole-Parmer has some other
stuff that's available in 25 ft. rolls but is about $9 per foot.
If anyone knows of a source for Norprene or some other tubing that will meet
my needs, please let me know!
-Marty
martyt@sky.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Mar 1996 22:21:01 -0800 (PST)
From: Douhan <gdouhan@wsunix.wsu.edu>
Subject: hop downy mildew
I am a graduate student at Washington State University giving a
seminar on the importance of hop downy mildew in the pacific northwest. I
would appreciate any relative info that anyone has out there in
cyberspace. I would also like to get some general hop trivia for
introductory purposes, i.e., quotes, facts, etc. Any help would be greatly
appreciated.
P.S. Any Mad River Brewing clones out there(Jamaica red, stealhead extra
pale ale)?
Greg Douhan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 02:03:06 -0500
From: Brewizard@aol.com
Subject: 2 day brewing?
Are there any problems with doing a full mash brew over 2 days? I was
thinking about going through the mashing/sparging stage on 1 day then
boiling, etc. on the next.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 05:35:38 EST
From: "Calvin Perilloux" <dehtpkn9@ibmmail.com>
Subject: Uncl: Calories and Finishing Gravity
John DeCarlo asks recently in HBD 1982...
>I would still like to better understand how creating alcohol and loweri<
>the FG results in fewer calories (probably just a result of chemical <
>reactions that generate heat or something a chemist would understand). <
Consider that yeast, as a living organism, cannot convert maltose and
other sugars into alcohol without using a part of it to supply its own
metabolic needs. Some fraction of the energy is lost. (This might be
more complicated for nutrients that are more complex than the easily
convertible sugars and alcohol we're dealing with in beer. Could
certain complex nutrients actually be made more digestible and hence
more calorie rich by certain conversions? Quite possibly, but the
nutrients we're dealing with here are all very "convertible" as they
are by the human body, which makes our concept here easier to grasp.)
Given two wort samples of equal OG, the one ending in lower FG has
had more alcohol created (with less than 100% efficiency calorie-
wise) from the original sugars. The one ending in the higher FG has
not had as much of this "calorie-wasting" metabolic activity going on,
and hence it is higher in calories. Think of the heat generated by
a rapid ferment. That's lost energy that could be going to your own
waistline!
Calvin Perilloux "Bayerisches Bier,
dehtpkn9@ibmmail.com Staerker als Heimweh"
Erding, Germany
------------------------------
Date: 11 Mar 96 16:57:01 EST
From: aesoph@ncemt1.ctc.com (Aesoph, Michael)
Subject: Distilled Beverages
Dear Collective:
A freind of mine has an old still that his grandfather made during
prohibition. He states that it is not illegal to distill your own
beverages. Is there any truth to this? If so, is distilling safe? I've
thought about distilling some of my wine or pseudo-brandy into Brandy.
Anyone know any good recipes for distilled beverages?
Mike Aesoph
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:18:59 +200
From: "Braam Greyling" <ACG@knersus.nanoteq.co.za>
Subject: Re-boiling the wort.
Hi
I have been wondering. I started fermenting an pale ale a week ago.
Yesterday I wanted to bottle it and when I tasted it I was HORRIFIED
by the taste. Bacterial infection ! Me bad brewer,bad bad bad brewer
;-)
Now I was wondering. Could I re-'boil' this whole wort and yeast and
everything.Maybe add some honey or sugar. And ferment it agian ?
I know I wont get an excellent beer out of this but maybe it is
drinkable. Or is it better to feed the drain's cockroaches ?
Thanks
Braam Greyling Design Engineer
Nanoteq (Pty) Ltd tel. +27 (12) 665-1338
- ---- 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case ----
- ---- coincidence ????? ----
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:39:30 +200
From: "Braam Greyling" <ACG@knersus.nanoteq.co.za>
Subject: Making bread with used grains
Hi there
I would like to make some bread with the used grains after I brewed
my favourite ale. Are there any recipes on the internet for baking
bread with the spent grains ? I could not find any on the Cats Meow.
If somebody have some recipes could you please please please send
them to me ?
If you e-mail me I will post a summary, it doesnt matter I read the
digest anyway everyday.
Cheers
Braam Greyling Design Engineer
Nanoteq (Pty) Ltd tel. +27 (12) 665-1338
- ---- 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case ----
- ---- coincidence ????? ----
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:20:01 -0500
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Malt Liquor/Carbonation/Hangovers/Heaters
Tracy Thomason asked about the practical differences between beer and malt
liquor having seen that label on a bottle of Paulaner Hefe-Weizen. In this
case it is a matter of definition by your state liquor control authority:
anything above x% (presumably 5.2 or so in this case) ABV is malt liquor.
There are, of course, lots of laughable regulations of this sort on the
books of the 50. I believe, for example, that in Texas anything, be it
barleywine or bock, above a certain strength must be labeled "ale".
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Greg Dolbec has had carbonation problems and suspects that the secondary
fermentastion is not going forward. If this is indeed the case the beer
will taste sweet from the unfermented priming sugar. If it is the case try
placing a few drops of fermenting beer (as from the next batch) in each
bottle or mixing a couple of cups of fermenting beer into the bottling
bucket. It is possible (but unlikelyu) that a flocculant strain of yeast
may settle out before bottling to the point where bottle fermentation is
impeded. Do the bottles give a whoosh when opened? A common problem with
extract brews is that the beer has no head retention whatsoever so that the
carbonation, while there, escapes in huge bubbles in a couple of minutes.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Greg also asks about hangover cures. There are lots of "eye of newt and toe
of frog" sorts of things out there but it has been suggested that fructose
will do the job. Fructose starts metabolism by a different pathway than
glucose(for example it skips the points regulated by insulin) and hangover
metabolites try to run certain parts of the metabolic system backwards. All
the parts are coupled by elaborate feedback mechanisms so I suppose it's
possible that fructose may straighten out the tangle that ethanol causes.
Even if it is by placebo effect, it seems to work. It is readily available
at health food stores (diabetics use it as a sweetener). My recipe: squeeze
a lemmon into a small tumbler, add enough fructose to sweeten to lemonade
level, add some water, mix and swill.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Ken Shcwarz's idea for using diodes to contol power level is darn clever!
How about using a diode and pair of switches on each of the elements to get
four levels of heating a la:
| <---------- 120VAC -------> |
| |
| Lo |
| / |
| Off |--/ --| |
| / | Hi | Htr |
|----/ ----|---->|--|--/\/\/\--|
| On |
| Lo |
| / |
| Off |--/ --| |
| / | Hi | Htr |
|----/ ----|---->|--|--/\/\/\--|
On
It should take less time to build this than it took me to do the ASCII art.
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 96 09:01:15 CST
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: calories
In Digest 1982:
John DeCarlo <jdecarlo@burp.org> wrote:
[snip]
>So, I am more interested in data that discusses the expected calories based
>on the sources of those calories. As far as I can tell, there are two basic
>areas:
> 1) Ingredients (corn/wheat/malt, fermentables vs. non-fermentables, etc.)
> 2) Fermentation (how much alcohol the yeast produced, resulting FG, etc.)
Ethanol has 7 kcal/g, carbohydrates and proteins 4 kcal/g, and fats 9
kcal/g. Dietary calories (abbrev. C) are actually kilocalories.
>I think the previous data presented gives some info on a generic recipe
>only concerned with OG or Real Extract, so gives some data for 2). However,
>I would still like to better understand how creating alcohol and lowering
>the FG results in fewer calories (probably just a result of chemical
>reactions that generate heat or something a chemist would understand).
You got it. The yeast gives off a lot of heat during fermentation.
>Still, is it really true that it doesn't matter what ingredients you use and
>how fermentable they are, except for how that affects the OG and FG? That
>may very well be true, but I wouldn't have guessed it. Also, does it
>more-or-less assume all barley, or all barley/rice/corn/wheat/rye? What
>about if you add sugar or honey or cherries?
Since were mostly talking about carbohydrates here, the source is
insignificant. Any carbos that dissolve will contribute to specific gravity.
The carbos yeast can't use (dextrins, starch, etc.) will just contribute to
the calories in the finished beer.
Tracy
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 07:14:39 -0700
From: mck@yar.cusa.com (Michael Kerns)
Subject: recipes
With warm weather approaching, I was wondering if anyone out there had
extract recipes for steam beers or pale ales they would be willing to share.
My basement is stocked with porters and stouts, I'm looking for something a
little lighter. Many thanks for the shared wisdom. Private email is fine.
Incidentally, I realize that for the more experienced brewers this is a
technical resource; but I personally like the recipes I get off of here and
sincerely thank those who post their favorites. I've tried many and haven't
got a bad one yet.
TIA to all who reply.
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 09:20:46 -0500
From: iaciofano@leds.shr.tdh.qntm.com (Ed, Quantum PE (508) 770-2251)
Subject: Electric elements, wiring
KennyEddy writes:
>For a typical household 120V circuit, the breaker will trip at about 15A.
>There are probably some 20A circuits scattered around; usually the wiring
>gauge is the same (but check with an electrician to be sure this is the case
>at YOUR house!), so it might be a simple matter of installing a 20A breaker
>in place of the 15A connected to your brewing area outlets.
Umm, I'd be *real* carefull about this. The "simple matter" of replacing
the breaker with a bigger one reminds me of replacing an old screw type
fuse with a penny. Yeah, ask an electrician and see what he says. Most
electricians I know (and I do know more than a few) always match the
current ratings of the wire and breaker.
Also, while I'm thinking of it. There's been some talk about using the
burner connector on an electric stove as 240V access. If you can make a
good mechanical connection so that shorting and ohmic heating aren't a
problem, the important thing you have to check is that you are not
violating the wattage rating of the connector. The wattage for electric
elements is usually stamped on the burner support bracket. Most small
size burners are about 1800 watts, with the larger ones at around 2400 watts.
DO NOT exceed these wattages with whatever you hook up to the burner
connectors.
Regards,
/Ed_I (electric stovetop brewer)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:32:16 -0500
From: "Matt S. Grady" <gradym@btv.ibm.com>
Subject:
In #1982, Nick Dahl writes:
>I'm moving from extract to partial mash brewing, but like many people, just
>don't have the time to commit to an "all-day and all-of-the-night" brew
>schedule. This is why I'd like to do a partial mash on one evening,
>collect the "sweet liquid wort" in a sterile container, refrigerate it
>overnight, then do an extract boil the next day, using yesterday's results
>as the "second can."
>Actually, I think this study has repercussions for brewers who want to move
>to all-grain brewing, but do not have the space or want to invest in the
>equipment needed to pull off an all-grain brew with extract equipment.
>However, like Bob, I'd value all opinions, particularly those who think the
>idea is crazy.
I am finding that mashing is not really taking that much more time than
brewing with extracts, and that things are getting faster the more batches I
make. Here's a rough 5 hr schedule that I generally follow:
Water to strike temp - 15 min
Mash, get sparge water ready - 1.5 hrs
Lauter/sparge - 45 min
Boil & cleanup - 1.5 hrs
Chill & cleanup - 30 min
Aerate, pitch & final cleanup - 30 min.
SO - starting at about 6pm, I generally finish up at about 11. Much of the
1st 2 hrs is spent letting the mash work, so one has time to read to the kids,
pet the dog, hug the spouse, etc. I get as much sanitation out of the way as
possible the night before brew night, and have generally been building a yeast
starter in the days before as well.
I also find the incremental equipment expense minimal. I mash on the stove
with my original 5 gal. boiler. A 2nd 4 gal. pot was purchased so all the
wort could be boiled ($25), and a 2nd 5 gal. plastic bucket ($4) was purchased
to drill holes in to make a lauter tun (already had a bottling bucket for the
bottom half of the tun). Chilling is done in a bathtub with water/snow/ice,
along with 2l frozen pop bottle 'immersion chillers' (free). This 'equipment'
has worked well for me for many batches.
In short, I would encourage anyone interested in adding mashing to their
brewing regimen to make the incremental $ investment, and not worry too much
about the process taking too much time. You will find your own way to improve
upon the above and fit it in, and you will probably be very pleased with the
results.
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:59:02 -0500
From: dharsh@alpha.che.uc.edu (David C. Harsh)
Subject: Two gauge regulators
Al wrote:
>Art asks:
>>Are two gauge regulators better than single gauge?
>
>In my opinion: marginally better. You see, the high-pressure gauge
>should warn you when you are running out of gas, right? Well, the
>problem is that it does not change (unless you change the temperature)
>until all the liquid CO2 has turned to gas.
CO2 is *not* liquified when delivered in compressed gas cylinders. The
saturation pressure of of CO2 at 70 F is 853.4 psia, size K cylinders come
at about 850 psia when full, the 5 lb cylinders most homebrewers use are
filled to 500 psia. (Below the saturation pressure, CO2 exists as a gas.)
The pressure will change continuously while the supply is depleted.
Propane is delivered as a liquid, and Al's points are valid for propane
tank pressure gauges that some people sell.
I agree that the two gauge regulator for CO2 is only marginally better,
but I would still get a two gauge regulator if I had it to do over - my
experience has been that the pressure falls extremely rapidly at the lower
end of the pressure gauge and it would be nice to have *some* warning.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:45:30 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Electric Boilers
>>>>> "KennyEddy" == KennyEddy <KennyEddy@aol.com> writes:
KennyEddy> For a typical household 120V circuit, the breaker will
KennyEddy> trip at about 15A. There are probably some 20A
KennyEddy> circuits scattered around; usually the wiring gauge is
KennyEddy> the same
WHOA! Slow down!
* A 20A circuit requires 12 gauge wire, while a 15A circuit requires
only 14 gauge (14 gauge is smaller than 12 gauge). DO NOT replace a
15A breaker with a 20A breaker without being SURE that the wire is the
right gauge *all the way* from the breaker panel to the outlet, AND
that all the switches and outlets on the circuit are rated for 20A
(most modern fixtures are).
* Kitchen outlets, under *current* electric code, must be on 20A
circuits. This is good news.
* A 15A circuit is only rated for 13A continuous load, although it
won't trip the breaker.
* You should be able to get 1125W out of a 15A circuit. Heck, some
hair dryers are rated at 1500 W.
=Spencer
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 11:56:51 -0500
From: Victor J Farren <wigwam@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
Subject: culturing a 3 strain yeast...
I recently aquired some yeat from a friend of mine that works in a
brewpub. Technically speaking he wasn't supposed to do that, but that is
the advantage of having friends. The yeast is supposed to be a triple
strain: a strong starting yeast, a strong middle yeast and a strong
finishing yeast. This is a top flocculating ale yeast that I am
interested in culturing. I would think that I could harvest that yeast
off of the top of a primary fermenting bucket right before I rack it into
the secondary fermenter. But here is the question:
Since it is a triple strain, at the point of harvesting (after primary
fermentation) will most of the begginer and middle strain have droppped to
the bottom, or will there be enough to ensure an even mix in the
subsequent culture?
I think that if I "relax and have a homebrew" while
I am culturing, all will be fine, but I am interested in any comments
people might have. By the way, the yeast really kicks!
Victor Farren
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:01:40 EST
From: "Calvin Perilloux" <dehtpkn9@ibmmail.com>
Subject: Uncl: Beer/malt liquor
In HBD 1982 (I think), Tracy Thomason asks about the
practical difference in malt liquor and beer/ale.
Paulaner Hefe-Weizen was labelled as "malt liquor".
Tracy, are you doing you drinking in the Great State of Texas?
During my time there, I remember drinking the very same beer,
and it was also labelled Malt Liquor back then. Actually, the
label was overstamped after the fact, with the word "BEER" and
the alcohol content blotted out, and then the new "Malt Liquor"
words were printed next to there!
The rule, as I heard at the time but did not see myself
in print in the law books, is that alcoholic malt beverages
like beer that are over 5% alcohol must be labelled as
malt liquor. Paulaner Hefe-Weizen was 5.1% if I remember
correctly (from there and bottles here). Hence, you are
not allowed to call it beer. Ale, stout, malt liquor.
But not beer.
It's a ridiculous law that turns the truth-in-labelling
rules on their heads, but I guess it's still a current law.
Calvin Perilloux "Bayerisches Bier,
dehtpkn9@ibmmail.com Staerker als Heimweh"
Erding, Germany
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:03:35 EST
From: "Calvin Perilloux" <dehtpkn9@ibmmail.com>
Subject: Uncl: Homebrewers in Berlin??
Jeff Mizener, in HBD 1982, is looking for homebrewers in Germany.
Here's some information about that, for Jeff and whoever else
is interested in joining the ranks of homebrewers in Germany.
Yes, there are a few of us here, perhaps not as many as we'd like
to see, but with the cheap, excellent beer available all over out
here, we don't have as much incentive to brew. Not only that, the
price of apartments is a bit high, and so most people are cramped
for room, a further disincentive. Then, with fewer homebrewers to
feed the market, there are far fewer homebrew shops here than in
relatively well covered North America, and so fewer people are
introduced to homebrewing, and so... anyway...
A group called Vereinigung der Haus- und Hobbybrauer in Deutschland e.V.
(German Homebrewers Association) promotes homebrewing in Germany.
I'm currently the treasurer, for another week anyway, so I can pass on
a bit of information about it if needed. We currently have 60-something
members from throughout Germany, with a noticeable concentration in
Franken. Members get our newsletter, which contains a list of homebrew
suppliers in Germany and information about homebrew activities and
a planned magazine that will come out later this year.
We're electing a new Board of Directors in the next week, so the
addresses for information will probably change from those we have
right now. Members come from all over Germany, and we have no
main office, so the address is wherever the President lives.
Anyone wanting more details in English, send me a personal e-mail
(see address below) and I'll send back info on how to join.
My suggestion to Jeff, judging from my own experience as a homebrewer
moving here from the States and then looking for more equipment and
ingredients here in Germany is to try to bring everything you
think you might need. Everything, all equipment, spare parts, your
brewing pot, grain mill, etc. It's all much more expensive here,
if you can even find what you want. (Cascade hops? Good luck!)
Even bring over hops, yeast (if you can) and even malt and malt extract
if your move is paid for. Hops are surprisingly expensive when you try
to buy them in small, homebrew quantities. Finding North American and
even English ingredients isn't easy at all, and those are the types of
beers I brew. (When I want a fresh Helles I step across the street
for better stuff than I ever brewed in the States, and cheaper.)
It's quite feasible, if your German is good enough, to beg malt and
hops and yeast from your local brewmaster, which is what a few of our
members do, keeping in mind that you won't have a big variety of
ingredients to choose from, restricting part of the fun of homebrewing.
(Oh, I miss the dozens of malt types in the States.)
Don't forget to register to brew beer once you get here. You didn't
think you'd be able to do anything fun here without filling out a few
forms, did you? This is, after all, Germany. Fonrtunately, rules for
homebrew have been simplified in the last couple of years, so there is
not so much paperwork as before, but you still are required to register
with a simple letter sent to the nearest Hauptzollamt stating where and
when you plan to brew, liters per batch, what the degree Plato (approx)
will be, and (ideally) state that you will not be brewing over 200 liters
per year. More than that gets complicated, as I found out after spending
an afternoon at the Hauptzollamt-Muenchen-West recently on my quest for
information about homebrew regulations.
The good news about brewing here is that the temperatures are generally
pretty conducive to beer brewing. It's no problem keeping your home
down in the 60's for 8 months out of the year! During the summer,
cellars still are cold enough for cool ale ferments. That makes for
nice, clean beer. Just make sure your ale yeast doesn't go into
hibernation in the cellar in winter.
So for anyone in D-land wanting information on brewing, drop me
an E-mail. Because of constant job hassles, I can't guarantee quick
response, but I'll do my best.
Calvin Perilloux "Bayerisches Bier,
dehtpkn9@ibmmail.com Staerker als Heimweh"
Erding, Germany
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:01:05 -0500
From: Victor J Farren <wigwam@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
Subject: Re:Help my beer is infected..Wayne Wight
Your beer may not be infected. In fact, those little bubbles may
be the result of continuing fermentation. I am not familiar with the
recipie for Brown Ale, but if it contains slow fermenting sugars such as
honey, it may just be that it is still fermenting. I am brewing a mead
(actually, has been fermenting since December) and have experienced
similar sights and fears. Al it was was tiny bubbles of CO2 that were
coming together at the surface. The best way to tell if it is infected
is to taste it. I recommend getting a sterilized turkey baster and
taking a sampler of your beer. It would be a pity to throw away a
perfectly good batch.
Victir Farren
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 12:10:39 -0500 (EST)
From: waterr@rpi.edu (Bob Waterfall)
Subject: Diacetyl and 2,3-pentanedione/ Copyright
Al Korzonas says in HBD 1979 (I'm just catching up after vacation):
>2,3-pentanedione lends a honey-like flavour/aroma to the beer. George
>Fix says, in his Principles of Brewing Science, that there is a Belgian beer
>that has a very prominent 2,3-pentanedione character, but I'm not sure which
>one he means... George? Anyone else?
I don't know what beer Dr. Fix is talking about, in fact I've never read his
book. However, my guess is La Chouffe. I had a taste at a beer festival
last fall and my first thought was "HONEY!!!". I even asked the rep. (from
the distributor, not the brewery) if he knew if it was made with honey. He
had no idea.
bob rogers says in 1980:
>OTOH: if they take all the facts presented here and publish them, there
>would be no problem.
Of course there's a problem; separating the facts from the myths, legends,
and "momilies". :^)
Bob Waterfall <waterr@rpi.edu>,
Troy, NY, USA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:41:15 -0700
From: nealc@selway.umt.edu (Neal Christensen)
Subject: Corny Compatible
All right, I was wrong. Compatible threads between pin-lock and ball-lock
fittings are the exception rather than the rule - sorry for the miss-info.
I do use a mixed system of ball and pin-lock kegs. The way I deal with it
is to make all of my lines with threaded nuts to connect to threaded
connectors rather than hose-barb connectors. That way I can easily use
either type of keg and connector in-line.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 10:58:41 -0700
From: cgeden@nervm.nerdc.ufl.edu (Chris Geden)
Subject: Split-day brewing
FWIW, I've been doing partial mashes with a split brew day for about six
months with excellent results. I usually mash 2-4 lb of grain and sparge
out to a total of 1-2 gal. I put the runnings in the fridge in washed
milk jugs until the next day (sometimes 2-3 days), then boil the runnings
plus water plus extract/specialty grains/hops etc as usual for a
full-volume boil. Why not? The runnings are nearly sterile when they go
in the milk
jugs, they are then kept cold, and they are boiled again anyway. This allows
me to concentrate on doing a good job with the mashing and sparging without
worrying about the long brew day ahead. It also means not tying up an entire
weekend day with brewing and thus avoids BRSD (brewing-related spousal
disapproval).
Chris Geden
Gainesville ,FL
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:23:27 -0500
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Subject: Wire Gauges and Circuit Breakers for Electric Boilers
Spencer called my hand with a comment about 15A and 20A circuits "usually"
having the same wire gauge. He's right, using the word "usually" was overly
optimistic, although it's certainly not unheard-of. I DID however also
admonish the reader to have their particular situation verified before making
any assumptions, and I REITERATE that point:
*******************************************************************
DON'T ASSUME THAT YOUR 15A CIRCUIT IS 20A-CAPABLE WITHOUT HAVING IT CHECKED
BY A QUALIFIED ELECTRICIAN!!
*******************************************************************
Please also note that my wiring suggestions in the previous post ARE based on
the use of a 20A circuit!! I said you could try it on a 15A circuit but
you'd probably trip the breaker. The way I presented it was potentially
confusing, however. Spencer's concern is apparently that the boiler could
operate in the no-man's land between the 13A max rating and the 15A trip
level, which *is* about where it would end up. And he's right about the
kitchen wiring being 20A, which *is* good news (in this case, the addition of
a GFI outlet is all that's needed, if there's not one already there).
Spencer's emphasis of the wire gauge issue is VITAL to the safe operation of
this setup. I thank him for pointing this out, and I apologize if I confused
or misled anyone.
USE ONLY A 20A MINIMUM RATED CIRCUIT -- WIRING *AND* BREAKER --
FOR THESE ELECTRIC BOILERS !!
There.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 14:01:52 -0500
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@swamp.li.com>
Subject: Large fermenter
What are the thoughts of using a 15+ gallon fish tank as a primary
open fermenter. Or can anyone tell me where to find carboys in the
10+ gallon range?
**************************
** rust1d@li.com **
** John Nicholas Varady **
** Eve Courtney Hoyt **
**************************
http://www.netaxs.com/people/vectorsys/index.html
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 20:46:16 +0100
From: bush@shbf.se (Robert Bush)
Subject: Re:Royal Oak pale ale
Hi, Dan Pack asked about Royal Oak in HBD #1982:
>I thought I detected a hint of oak in this beer. And that fact, together with
>the name....
>Does anyone know anything about this beer? Possibly aged in oak?
I have found this beer very toffee-ish in both nose and mouth and also some
pear flavour (and of course lots of hops) but I can't say I have detected
any oak in it. The following recipe comes from a book by a British author
(Roger Protz):
23 litres (final volume), OG 1048, FG 1011, 30 EBU
4 200 g Pale malt
530 g Crystal malt
In the copper:
530 g Maltose syrup
42 g Fuggles (90 min)
35 g Goldings (90 min)
10 g Goldings (15 min)
1 tsp Irish moss (15 min)
It's infusion mashed @ 65 deg C for 90 minutes and Protz suggests a boil
time of 2 hrs but IMO a 90 min boil is enough for most beers. I also
wouldn't be afraid of dry-hopping this beer with some Goldings (even
Styrian).
If anyone tries this, let us know how it was.
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% WASSAIL! %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
% Robert Bush Computer: Macintosh %
% Eskilstuna,SWEDEN E-mail: bush@shbf.se %
%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 1996 13:28:00 -0500
From: "brian (b.j.) grier" <bjgrier@bnr.ca>
Subject: DO NOT DO THIS!!!!! (was Electric Boilers)
In HBD #1982 ...
>Date: Sat, 9 Mar 1996 11:30:49 -0500
>From: KennyEddy@aol.com
>Subject: Electric Boilers
>
>For a typical household 120V circuit, the breaker will trip at about 15A.
> There are probably some 20A circuits scattered around; usually the wiring
>gauge is the same (but check with an electrician to be sure this is the case
>at YOUR house!), so it might be a simple matter of installing a 20A breaker
>in place of the 15A connected to your brewing area outlets.
DO NOT CHANGE YOUR BREAKERS/FUSES FROM 15 to 20 amps UNLESS YOU ARE
ABSOLUTELY SURE THAT THE ENTIRE CIRCUIT IS 12gauge WIRE!!!!!!!
Passing 20 amps through a 14guage wire will cause the wire to heat
excessively and can start a fire. If the cause of the fire is traced
to this modification your home owners insurance WILL NOT cover any
damages.
Brian
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1984, 03/14/96
*************************************
-------
