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HOMEBREW Digest #1966
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/02/22 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1966 Thu 22 February 1996
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Beer Bottle Labels Reply Summary (Lynn Ashley)
family business ("Jared B Froedtert")
grain bed depth ("Jared B Froedtert")
My GOTT! I have problems. (D & S Painter)
What is Special B Malt? (Lynn Ashley)
protein (Algis R Korzonas)
Tannins+hoptea/starters/Pater Pierre/frozen Wyeast/CaCl2/Wyeast sources/mixed gas draft systems (Algis R Korzonas)
Question About Lagers (Richard Sharp)
Re: MAC Software (Lance Skidmore)
2nd Annual Small & Tiny homebrew competition (Spencer W Thomas)
HBD search back on the web! (Spencer W Thomas)
Re: What to do with spent grains ("Winter")
Basic Kegging 101 ("Winter")
AJ's Water Posting (KennyEddy)
misc. yeast questions (Eiron Robb Cudaback)
Re: arm in beer (Jeff Benjamin)
Microwaving LME? ("Olson, Greger J - CI/911-2")
Celis/Miller ("Edmund C. Hack")
RE:RIMS Delivery (hollen)
Cloning. (Russell Mast)
6.5 gallons of pure fun. (Russell Mast)
Beer label applications (JoyflRaven)
Nylons?!?! (JoyflRaven)
Hudson Valley Homebrewers Annual Competition (Greg Holton)
Celis Distribution ("Rich Byrnes")
Cider Question (Todd Kirby)
Make Your Own Balance Scale Weights (krkoupa)
gas mixes ("Rich Byrnes")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 20 Feb 96 15:35:32 EST
From: Lynn Ashley <73744.3234@compuserve.com>
Subject: Beer Bottle Labels Reply Summary
To: INTERNET:homebrew@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
Thanks to all who responded to my inquiry about beer bottle labels.
The question must have hit a nerve; I received more than an dozen responses.
Following is a summary of what I learned from the replies.
________
PRINTER - Just about every type of printing device was cited as being used
to make labels. Most use laser jet / photo copy, which do not run when wet.
________
PAPER - Many people use heavy and/or textured/colored paper for labels.
Heavier paper does not wrinkle as easily. Textured/colored paper does
not show spray plastic coatings.
________
GLUE - The overwhelming majority use glue sticks of many different brands.
All wash off easily. Only the Dennison std glue stick was cited as not
sticking well, however the Dennison Permanent was said to stick okay while
still being easy to remove. The relatively 'dry' application of the glue
stick glue causes no label wrinkling even with fairly light paper.
Several people said they had heard of using milk - but had not tired it.
________
COATING - The only coating cited was Krylon Crystal Clear spray plastic.
It was suggested to coat both the front and the rear of the label to achieve
good waterproofing.
________
CONCLUSION - Glue sticks works very well and are easy to use. Some brewers
apply glue only to the four corners. My previous problems with wrinkling
appeared to be caused by the labels being made too wet by the glues I was
using. Coating both the front and rear of the labels results in an almost
complete waterproofing. Spray the labels before cutting to prevent the
spray from blowing little individual labels around.
________________________________________________________________________
Thanks to all, Lynn.
|-------------------------------------------------------------|
| Lynn Ashley (lajiao ren) Arlington, Virginia, USA |
| 73744.3234@compuserve.com 38.904N 77.120W 105mAMSL |
|-------------------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 15:53:24 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jared B Froedtert" <froedter@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: family business
Yo !
i have a request of anybody reading this in the Wisonsin/Minnesota area.
Have any of y'all up d'er heard of The Froedtert Malt Corp. Appearatly this
used to be a company owned by my family, more specifically my
great-great-uncle. i was just informed of this and wanted to asked anybody
out
there in computer land if they could fill me in on anything about it.
private e-mail please: froedter@pilot.msu.edu
TIA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 15:44:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jared B Froedtert" <froedter@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: grain bed depth
Howdy and Howdoya do,
I was reading HBD and somebody, not sure who sorry, wrote that the ideal
grain bed depth was 6 inches. I have recieved different info. I went to
Chicago about a month ago and visted the brew-who-who school Sibeil Institute
of Tech. Da man there, who took me on the tour on the joint said puff away,
not, but any ways said that ideal grain depth is 18 inches. He showed me a
small, basically home brew set up, they have for there students. The
mash-tun was a tall rectagular box about 20 inches high, 10 inches depth and 5
inches in width.
Now i would subscibe much more to the idea it has to do with
proportionality. A small batch doesn't need to be that tall because the grain
husks will and all the other particles will settle in a specific gradient
according to particle size. So if your batch is small the area on the bottom
which the grain husks will cover will be small and so on. With large batches
sthe area which will be cover by the grain husks will be large.
The thing that would be most important to consider would be depth of those
grain husk areas. If your small batch was spread out over a larger surface
area, the particle size distibution layers would all be thin.
So aside from this babbling i've just spewed out, i guess what i'm trying to
say is, the important thing to consider is the depth of the bed in relation to
the area covered in relation to volume of liquid/grain.
signing off
Jared B. Froedtert
froedter@pilot.msu.edu
Frotis Don't Know Dis
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 17:18:18 -0500
From: D & S Painter <painter@CAM.ORG>
Subject: My GOTT! I have problems.
Hello All, and particularly to my fellow Gott brothers and sisters.
I have been brewing for 6 years and on new years resolved to brew only
all grain with my dusty 5 gal Gott & Phil's Phalse Bottom and Sparge
arm: I'm on my 4th now. My first 3 were PA's. I will now quote #'s from
Glenn Tinseth's "BrewCalc 1.1" (It's nice). these are the pts/lb/gal I
got for my first three #1 30.2 (79%); #2 24.6 (65% with 10.4 lbs.); #3
27.5 (76% with 7.3 lbs.).
As you can see a lot of variation well now I brewed a Stout (from hell).
I used 9.1 lbs of malt and adjuncts (quick oatmeal, flaked Barley and
Wheat) My pts/lb/gal was 21.9!!! aaaaahhhhh and my efficency was 60% How
can I be so inconsistant. I used the same procedures each time and used
the "Great Grain Issue's" mash and sparge volumes (since their all ales
I've used single step infusion) So these are my questions (if I've been
really dumb and this forum wouldn't benifit with the answers please
e-mail me and don't bore everyone else :-)
A) Why is my efficency so low and high? (is it the amount of grain?)
B1) How should I add my mash liquid to the tun? (I syphon it down to a
pvc pipe {a cut J tube) which is secure in a rubber bung, which is in
the spigot hole; the mash water immerses the grains)
B2) How can I acheive my mash rest temp as quickly as possible?(I have a
big problem hitting my 66-67 C mark ... it usually takes me 20-30
minutes ... and then my mash is thin with 1-2 Litre additions. My water
starts at 78 C but initial temp ends up 60-62 C ... I now scramble
around swearing ... RELAX ... ya sure, right)
C) I seem to have a fair amount of liquid in my tun after sparging is
this normal?
D) Papazian gives rough "guidelines for infusion mashing"(p 297, New
Joy ...) I should have ended up with over 5 gals of hot wort after
sparging (22 L) I ended up with 16 L and had to add 9 L of pure water
just to get my final 21 L (5.5 gal). Where is all my water? (Mash 8.5
L/Sparge 16.5 L)
E) Last but NOT least ... Is "Stout" Dublin water supposed to look like
milk? (I added 1/8th tsp Table Salt, 1/2 Epsom Salt and 3 tsp of Chalk
to 23 L of pure water ... the aprox. profile would be: Ca 104 ppm; Mg 8;
Na 12; SO4 32; CO3 156; Cl 18. I got lots of chalk residue!!! in my pot.
I even added it to room temp water.)
THANK YOU ALL for your patience with this stuff (may be I need a GOTT
FAQ!!! any ideas???
Douglas
------------------------------
Date: 20 Feb 96 16:46:34 EST
From: Lynn Ashley <73744.3234@compuserve.com>
Subject: What is Special B Malt?
To: INTERNET:homebrew@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
Several weeks ago I made an amber steam lager using 12% 40 Lov crystal
malt in a triple decoction mash. It resulted in a nice amber color.
This weekend I attempted to make an even redder ale. After some recipe
research I settled on one using 8% each 40 Lov & 80 Lov crystal malts.
I decided on a double decoction mash, omitting the protein rest since
it may have been the cause of some past poor heads.
My local HB shop was out of 80 Lov crystal malt. The salesman suggested I
prorate 100 Lov Special B malt, claiming that it was a crystal malt.
I researched but could not find a description of Special B malt. I went
ahead and used 6% Special B in the mash. The resulting color was decidedly
brown, almost completely lacking in red highlights.
What is Special B malt? How is it made? What attributes can you expect
from it?
Thanks Lynn.
|-------------------------------------------------------------|
| Lynn Ashley (lajiao ren) Arlington, Virginia, USA |
| 73744.3234@compuserve.com 38.904N 77.120W 105mAMSL |
|-------------------------------------------------------------|
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 12:49:43 CST
From: korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: protein
Charlie (Scandrett) writes:
>and 65C. It has a peak rate at about 58C to 60C, but it continues pretty
>rapidly anyway. Overnight mashes will have much higher protein levels than a
>mash of a few hours. It should be very noticible in the mouth feel.
Something has gone very much askew here. Normally, Charlie's posts are
quite well thought-out and researched. Although I question some of the
things that he has written, he has backed most of them up to my satisfaction
off-line and pointed to his sources (I've just not had the time to follow
up on them). This time, either Charlie has mistyped something or I've
misunderstood what he meant (I thought it was the British and Americans
that are divided by a common language?).
Charlie's comment that "overnight mashes will have much higher protein
levels than a mash of a few hours" sounds completely backwards to both
everything I've read and all my brewing experience. In a nutshell, the
beginning of Charlie's post was 100% in-line with what I believe to be
true. There are primarily two types of proteolytic enzymes: one that
turns large and medium-sized proteins into amino acids (really little
"protein" bits) and a second that chops large proteins into medium and
small-sized proteins. The first (peptidase) works at cooler temperatures
and is denatured ("killed") quite rapidly as temperatures rise too much
above 122F (50C). The other (protease) is less heat labile (can tolerate
warmer temperatures) and will work well up to 140F (60C). If you have
a long protein rest at 122F (50C), you will cut up most of your large
and medium proteins into amino acids. Your yeast will be happy with
all the nutrients, but you'll have poor head retention and virtually no
mouth feel (thin, watery beer -- just what we need more of, right?).
If you use well-modified malt, or even fairly well-modified malt, you
should be able to get away without a protein rest at all, which is why
Dr. George Fix says to omit that 50C rest for the more modified malts.
So, can you see now why Charlie's saying that a long mash would make
for more protein is contrary to what I think will happen? Not all the
enzymes will be killed and a long (overnight) mash will probably cut
most of the proteins down to amino acids, leaving a watery, thin beer.
I think you've got some 'splainin' to do Charlie...
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 96 17:37:06 CST
From: korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: Tannins+hoptea/starters/Pater Pierre/frozen Wyeast/CaCl2/Wyeast sources/mixed gas draft systems
Rob writes:
>Some time back, someone (Algis, A. J.,?) said that if you boil hops to make
>a hop tea instead of dry hopping that it would extract tannins that would be
>added to your final product. I also seem to remember someone saying that
>the reason that the tannins are not extracted in a wort boil is because the
>pH is so low. So the question is: if you drop the pH in the tea with a
>little lactic acid would the tannin extraction be nullified?
>
>I've been dry hopping for quite some time now and even with a nylon bag
>tied over the bottom of my racking cane it is a royal pain in the patootie
>(PITP...) to move my beers to the keg or the bottling bucket.
It was I that suggested that a high-pH boil of hops would extract tannins.
Frankly, the amount of tannins extracted would probably be quite small, but
I have a tendency to exaggerate small theoretical problems into what sounds
like a big practical problem. The answer to your question is yes, lowering
the pH of the water in which you boil the hops would reduce the tannin
extraction. However, if you are seeking to match the hop aroma of dryhopping
with hop tea, you are going to be disappointed. Even a very short boil will
cause some of the aromatics to evaporate and I've never gotten even close to
the intensity of the hop aroma you get with dryhopping, from late additions
in the boil. A fellow Brewers of South Suburbia member, Terry Murphree did
a side-by-side test of dryhopping versus hop tea. The hop tea was a strong
leader on the first tasting, but the dryhopped version smelled much better
after a month.
In all honesty, I don't think that the tannin problem should be much of a
worry, but the difference in aroma could be. Try a side-by-side test and
report back.
***
captain writes:
>I've had pretty good luck with making yeast starters with pre-boiled honey.
>Anyone see any fundimental problems with that?
Honey, corn sugar, sucrose (table sugar) -- none of these are good choices
for making starters. Besides the fact that they don't have the nutrients
that yeast need for proper, well... nutrition, their sugars are not much
like what the yeast will be experiencing in the wort (which is mostly
maltose). Feeding yeast honey (which is mostly fructose, if I recall
correctly) or corn sugar (glucose) or sucrose will result in a yeast that
will later have trouble fermenting maltose. This is basically what Tracy
said a few days ago, albeit in a more technical way. To put it in simple
terms: the yeast will "forget" how to ferment wort. There was a discussion
of this subject in practical terms between Dr. George Fix and Micah Millspaw
about three or four years ago in HBD and the bottom line was -- use wort
or at least wort-similar sugars for your starters.
***
John writes:
>3) Celis will be coming out with a new beer soon. The plan is for a
>Trappist Ale to be coming out sometime this spring or summer.
>
>All in all, Pierre is extremely nice. He talked to us for about 1
>1/2 hour before leaving.
Absolutely true... Pierre is extremely nice, but unless he plans to become
a monk, I don't think he'll be brewing a Trappist Ale. This is a very
common misconception and is furthered by the AHA guidelines. "Trappist"
is a designation of *origin* and not *style*. The Trappist Ales that are
brewed by the six Trappist Monasteries vary incredibly in style from the
extremely fruity, slightly lactic, rather bitter, dryhopped Orval which
gets some of its character from Dekkera (Brettanomyces) to the rich, thick,
raisiny, malty, spicy, warming Rochefort 10, to the spritzy, refreshing,
strong, but not alcoholic-tasting Westmalle Tripel to the malty yet *dry*,
smooth Westmalle Dubbel. Then there's the four La Trappe/Tilburg beers,
the three from Chimay (six if really compare the corked versus capped
bottles' flavours) and Westvleteren's four beers crowned by the Abt which
is luxuriously... oops... sorry... got carried away.
***
Scott writes:
>Has anyone else had experience with frozen Wyeast?
Yes. It can make excellent beer. Make a starter and if the starter
acts normally (you can check the starting and finishing gravity of it
and then step that up again one more generation) it should be just fine.
If it is sluggish, finishes with a high FG, reeks of diacetyl or acetaldehyde
(green apples), then toss it and get new yeast.
***
Mark writes (answering Wolfgang):
>One gram of CaCl2 in five gallons of water = 19 ppm Ca and 34 ppm Cl
Was that anhydrous (CaCl2), dihydrate (2H2O * CaCl2) or did it have even
more water in it? It does make a difference!
***
Tom writes:
>Talking to Dave Logsdon at Wyeast yielded the following info:
Dave has a habit of concealing the sources of his yeast strains.
Unless he has changed his ways, I would be very skeptical of what
he says about the yeasts' origins. For example, if you ask directly
if Wyeast #9993 is the "Pabst" yeast, he probably won't say no --
he'll say something like "there's a possibility that it is."
I think that the only way to figure out which yeast is which is by
comparing it to a side-by-side fermentation with a sample you got
directly from the brewery (I haven't been to one that refused to
give me yeast). So, take Tom's suggested sources with a grain of
salt and simply see if you like the beer that comes out -- isn't that
what it's all about anyway?
***
There have been a number of questions about force-carbonating with
mixed gasses (mostly CO2 and N2). The key here is that you need to use
the partial pressure of the CO2 in the carbonation tables. If you are
using 25% CO2 and 75% N2, and the tables say to use 12 psi of CO2 for
your temperature and volumes of CO2, then you should instead use 48 psi
so that the beer "sees" 12 psi of CO2.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@pubs.att.com
Copyright 1996 Al Korzonas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 18:47:31 -0600
From: dsharp@ionet.net (Richard Sharp)
Subject: Question About Lagers
Hello to all and to Rich Bemindt .
Rich's question about his Rocky Racoon Light Honey Lager was a supprise
to me .
I am also a new Brewer having made wine for over 30 years . I also just
brewed up a batch of Rocky as my first true lager beer . Again I also used
the Brewers Choice
2112 California lager yeast as the temperature I was working with required a
warmer
fermenting yeast . My choice of honey was citrus honey from Arizona . Along
with cascade hops the finished produce is wonderfull . An extreemly fine
white head along with an almost grapefruit nose has people asking for more .
My log book shows that I used Laaglander extra light DME . Fermentation
started on 1/10/96 and bottled on 1/25/96 with standard priming sugar .
Rich's flat beer indicated that bottle fermentation did not take place ,
but as for why I am at a loss for answers .
Dick Sharp
PGP2.6 KeyId 39EB1C6D
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 1996 22:00:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Lance Skidmore <lskidmor@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
Subject: Re: MAC Software
Mark Mrozinski wrote:
> Is anyone aware of any GOOD brewing software for
the Macintosh?
Well, I'm not sure what your definition of GOOD is,
but I have been very pleased with a shareware
package called BrewMeister ver 1.0. More
accurately, I guess it could be called freeware as
the read me file says to copy it and spread it
around as much as you like which is what a friend
of mine did for me. He downloaded it from
Compuserve.
I have done two recipes with it and it has exactly
predicted the starting and finishing gravities.
It is simple to use and has a pleasing interface,
showing a nice mug of brew in the lower right
corner of your screen that changes as your recipe
gets darker. It has some limitations, such as a
maximum of 5 gal batch, but for the price, it's a
great package. I don't subscribe to Compuserve, so
I can't tell you exactly where to find it. It may
exist elsewhere on the internet, though I haven't
found it.
Long Live the MAC!
Lnace Skidmore, Port Orchard, WA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 04:26:32 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: 2nd Annual Small & Tiny homebrew competition
What: 2nd Annual Small & Tiny Homebrew Competition (BJCP recognized)
When: April 13, 1996
Enter: From April 1, 1996 to April 12, 1996
How: 2 bottles, $5/entry to Small & Tiny HC, c/o Spencer Thomas,
1418 Golden Ave, Ann Arbor, MI 48104
This competition recognizes those beers that are, despite their light
gravity, good-tasting and flavorful. Beers that get shunted aside in
most competitions in favor of their more robust cousins. Beers that
deserve recognition! So, start brewing!
Any beer with an OG of 1.043 or less can be entered.
For more details, see the web page:
http://realbeer.com/spencer/AABG/Small_and_Tiny.html
or send me e-mail.
Judges, send me e-mail if you're interested in judging.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 06:21:17 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: HBD search back on the web!
The HBD (and Lambic/Mead/Judgenet) web-based search is back up,
following a disk crash in December that wiped it out. Start from
Spencer's Beer Page, at http://realbeer.com/spencer/, and look for the
"Search" link.
A few issues are still missing from the Lambic digest, but otherwise
the archive should be complete.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 07:08:45 +0000
From: "Winter" <woodsaim@enter.net>
Subject: Re: What to do with spent grains
Uses for spent grains:
Use them in your breadmachine. Assuming you have one. They make a
wonder additive to bread.
Feed them to the wild birds. Mine line up and take a number when
they find out I'm brewing!! <g>
This may not be what you wanted, but that's what I do with mine.
Winter
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 07:08:45 +0000
From: "Winter" <woodsaim@enter.net>
Subject: Basic Kegging 101
Hello to all the brew folk --
I have been reading this list for many weeks and have been
totally intimidated!! <g> You people really know your stuff. It's
great to know that there is all this experience is in one place. It's also
nice to see so many other newbies having fun brewing beer. I've been
fortunate so far to have brewed some great beer -- however, I have
been using extracts and some limited grains. It's been a blast!
Well, remember waaaaaaaaay back when you were just starting out
and you didn't know that much? Remember when lots of stuph that is
now commonplace, made no sense at all? Remember when kegging was for
frat parties and bars? Remember how proud you were of your first kit beer
... how scary it was the first time you used REAL grains instead of
extracts? Remember how watered-down Budweiser tastes? Well,
that's the point I'm at now. Still a rank beginner, but I love
every minute of it. With time -- and a lot of alcohol -- I'll get
much better and then maybe I'll be able to really join in the
conversations here!! I can't wait! : )
I know that you guys are the perfect people to tell me -- use
small words -- a little about kegging. Why do I want to keg? Well,
honestly, because I don't want to clean ninety-twelve bottles every
time I brew. I want to be able to bottle some and to keg some of
each batch. Now, here's the thing. I want to do this as
inexpensively as possible. You'll notice I didn't say cheaply. I
want good equipment. Stuff that will last. I just don't have to
have the most expensive just because it's the best available. Space
is an issue as well, I live in a house now but I rent and if I move I
may end up with a lot less space. Just thinking ahead. I
don't necessarily want to force carbonation. Up until last week I
thought that all kegging had forced carbonation. I think that's a bit
more involved. I'm looking at something that I can get into slowly
and decide if I like it before going whole-hog into a major kegging
set-up.
I was at my brew supplier during a tasting when someone brought
in a small keg and that's what got my attention. It probably only
held about 1 gallon. I didn't have much of a chance to really get
much information about it and different people were telling me that I
wanted all different kinds of things and all I did was get confused.
I did notice that the store sold the tiny kegs for $6.25 each and
that what's attached to the top (whatever that's called) can run from
$25 to $50 depending on which one you bought and that they were all
made in Germany. That's the extent of my knowledge. I looked in
some of my magazines, but the only articles on kegging in there are
for really intense keg people.
I want to make an educated decision. If it means that I need to
wait until I can afford what I really want, then I'll do that. I
want something simple. It doesn't have to be fancy. Doesn't have to
force carbonation. I also need to know if kegs need to be kept cold
(i.e. in the fridge) or if they can be stored at room temperature.
Are there any special requirements for kegging? Was the equipment I
saw at my brew supplier good stuff? Will something that small be
sufficient? Can different sizes of kegs be used with the same small
sized taps? Someone at the tasting mentioned soda-type canisters.
How expensive is it to use those and what equipment do I need? Why
would one type of kegging equipment be better than another?
And, lastly, if there is an archive that answers all these
questions, please just let me know what number it is and I'll go and
download it and be as happy as a clam. Right now, I honestly don't
think I know enough to even ask intellegent questions!! <g>
Please, just keep the terminology at Basic Kegging 101 level!!
TIA
Winter
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 09:55:47 -0500
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Subject: AJ's Water Posting
Thank you, AJ deLange, for the posting in HBD1965 concerning water
formulation. For us "chemistry-challenged", it was a straightforward
explanation of how to "build" a brewing water profile without having to mess
with lots of exotic and potentially dangerous chemicals. I for one intend to
start brewing with "better" water; I now have a simple formula for doing so.
Thanks again!
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
Cervezeria del Gran Pendejo
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 08:38:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Eiron Robb Cudaback <cudaback@wsunix.wsu.edu>
Subject: misc. yeast questions
I apologize for the aparent laziness of my question, but this forum seems
to save me the sometimes dubious task of leafing through my books...here
goes,
I've got an ESB that's only moments away from racking to secondary. I
used Wyeast #1028 (London Ale)...here's the problem...I assumed that I
had already cultured this strain on a previous occasion and put away for
safe keeping, but I was sadly mistaken:
1) Can I make a plate culture from the sediment, and if so, is it as
easy as simply streaking out the sediment?
2) I've never tried brewing a batch of brew immediately following the
racking of an already existing brew...ie. using the sediment as a starter
for the next batch...
Help me please, somebody, before it's too late...
Eiron Cudaback (but you can call me E)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 9:47:18 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji@hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: arm in beer
> Being very tired, annoyed, and panicked I shoved my unsanitized arm into
> the wort to retrieve the object. I know this is about the worst thing
> one can do.
No, the worst thing you could probably do is spit into it.
Honestly, use your nose and tastebuds! These are two of your most
important and sensitive homebrewing tools. Does it taste bad? Probably
not. Chances are, if the rest of your technique was good, the beer will
come out fine. Let it go -- you won't really know how it turns out
unless you let it turn out!
This advice goes for *all* new brewers (and experienced ones, too!).
Don't ever dump your beer unless it's gone for a while and you're
*positive* that it's gone bad. Even then, bottle it and let it age for
a while before making a final determination. The brewing process is
really pretty forgiving (unlike we sometime make it sound on HBD), and
your beer can handle a lot of screwups and still come out just fine.
- --
Jeff Benjamin benji@fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Think! It ain't illegal yet." -- George Clinton
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 09:19:00 PST
From: "Olson, Greger J - CI/911-2" <gjolson@bpa.gov>
Subject: Microwaving LME?
A question for the collective:
Are there any harmful effects in using a microwave to warm up extract to
facilitate pouring? I have been heating the jug with hot water for fear of
unwanted reactions. It would be simpler just to zap it. I don't recall
seeing this discussed. I know the mantra, RDWHAHB, although I prefer Have a
HomeBrew, then Relax/Don't Worry :-) TIA
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 09:30:37 -0800 (PST)
From: "Edmund C. Hack" <echack@crl.com>
Subject: Celis/Miller
In Homebrew Digest #1965 (February 21, 1996), Todd Kirby <mkirby@bgsm.edu>
stepped to the mike and announced:
>
> OK, I still don't get it. Why has Celis restricted distribution after
> supposedly taking steps to expand? Something just doesn't make sense
> here!
When Miller took over distribution, they saw that Celis' distribution was
larger than their production could support. They simply could not keep up
with demand. So, in order to keep their retailers/wholesalers happy, they
cut back distribution to 5 or 6 states. The new brewery equipment will
allow them to add states as time goes by.
Edmund Hack \ "But maybe he's only a little crazy -
echack@crl.com \ like painters - or composers - or some of those
Houston, TX \ men in Washington." - _Miracle on 34th St._, 1947
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 10:19:37 PST
From: hollen@vigra.com
Subject: RE:RIMS Delivery
>>>>> "Ray" == "Ray Cooper" <Ray_Cooper@msn.com> writes:
Ray> This type of setup eliminates the ability to stir the mash except
Ray> with possibly a concentric stirring paddle which I have
Ray> considered. As long as the flow of wort liquor is sufficient to
Ray> heat the grain bed thoroughly and quickly, additional stirring
Ray> should not be nessesary. I've only done 5 gallon batches. I would
Ray> probably incorporate a stirring paddle if I were to use a
Ray> converted Sankey keg to do 10 gallon batches, especially if it
Ray> was uninsulated.
With a RIMS system, stirring of the mash should *never* be necessary
and if it is, indicates something wrong with the design and/or
implementation. Stirring defeats one of the major features of a RIMS
system, that of the grain bed acting as its own filter and producing
crystal clear wort.
Ray> On the subject of RIMS systems, after hearing of the problem of
Ray> carmelization of the mash liquor on the heating element of RIMS
Ray> direct heat chambers and cost considerations, I decided to try
Ray> something a little different. I pump the mash liquor from the
Ray> bottom of the tun through 20 feet of 3/8 inch coiled copper
Ray> tubing placed in 2 gallons of water in a insulated plastic bucket
Ray> heated with a 1000 watt electric heating element. Kind of like an
Ray> immersion chiller.
I would be really interested to learn where you heard about
carmelization of wort on the heater element. This should only occur
if you use the wrong type element. With a low density element (72"
long when all stretched out, and only 1125 watts) scorching will never
occur unless for some reason your flow were to stop entirely. Again,
I would attribute any scrorching to poor design and/or implementation
of the RIMS principles.
While your method may work, I suspect that you are losing a lot of
heat transfer efficiency and have lots of hysterisis in the system due
to lag time from when you turn on the element to when that heat
actually reaches the mash. Just speculation, of course.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 12:23:29 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Cloning.
> From: Andrew McGowan <AMCGOWAN@WPO.HCC.COM>
> Subject: Questions - Sam Adams Lager Clone
>
> I am wanting to attempt an all grain clone of SA lager.
Okay, the first step is to sue me -
Oh, wait, you want to clone the BEER. Oh, uh, sorry. I'm not sure
what a good substitute for Mittelfreu is. I'd suggest buying a
little bit of a variety of diff't noble and noble-like hops. I
think Spalt is a dead ringer, but I'm a heretic, so don't take my
word for it.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 12:34:07 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: 6.5 gallons of pure fun.
> From: Bill Rust <wrust@csc.com>
> Subject: 6 1/2 Gallon Primary / Iodophor Reuse
> 1) Is a wine thief the only way to get samples (for SG checks, etc.) out of
> the carboy? Do they make one long enough for a 6 1/2 gallon carboy?
I know a lot of people use turkey basters. If I need anything out, I usually
use a siphon hose, but then I enjoy siphoning (sick, huh?) and I have a pretty
clever (if involved) set up for doing a clean siphon.
But, frankly, I almost never futz with it. I nearly always do a two-stage,
and I'll check the gravity then, and then once when bottling. I only once
had what looked like a stuck batch, and I just aborted bottling when I
found out. Because of my schedule, I usually have to wait a couple weeks
before bottling anyway, so I rarely worry about not having the batch done.
> 2) Has any one made weizzen with only 1 1/2 gallons of head space? Won't
> you need a blow-off tube?
Yes to both. I'd put 5.5-6gallons in just to make up for the loss, and
so you can have a generous sample at racking time.
> 3) Even tho I have a wort chiller, I'm asking this for a friend who also has
> one... Wouldn't syphoning hot wort into the carboy create HSA? If so, how
> do you avoid this?
Um, siphoning hot wort into a carboy might also create a huge mess of broken
glass. I'd worry about that a LOT more than a little HSA.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 13:50:13 -0500
From: JoyflRaven@aol.com
Subject: Beer label applications
Lynn Ashley asked about applying labels to beer bottles (as compared to her
forehead ;-) ). Instead of using glue, or water activated adhesive paper, I
just run labels off on my laser printer at work, cut them, and apply them
with clear packing tape (NOT strapping tape). We have a hand-held packing
tape dispenser at work, which I borrow for the evening. I cut the tape about
2 inches longer than the label, and center it. It takes 2 pieces to cover the
label. When I'm done with the beer, I peel the tape off (it comes off VERY
easily), and I don't need to soak the bottle when I'm done with it.
This method is much, much neater than glue or water, although maybe not as
appealing to purists. Oh well!
Peace,
Erik Deckers
JOYFLRAVEN@AOL.COM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 13:50:14 -0500
From: JoyflRaven@aol.com
Subject: Nylons?!?!
In HBD #1958, rbarnes@sdccd.cc.ca.us asks...
>Can I use a nylon stocking (you know, the kind women wear) as a hop bag?. .
.
> My wife has fairly clean feet, but can nylons be sanitized in bleach or
> iodophor?
I think using nylons would be a good idea, but for God's sake don't use your
wife's old nylons!! To understand my point, get a good whiff of your wife's
stockinged feet right after she gets home from work, then ask yourself, "Will
ANY amount of rinsing make me want to use this pair in my beer?"
Ask your wife for a brand new pair, or have her pick up a pair for you the
next time she goes shopping.
Peace,
Erik Deckers
JOYFLRAVEN@AOL.COM
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 14:49:00 -0500 (EST)
From: greg@kgn.ibm.com (Greg Holton)
Subject: Hudson Valley Homebrewers Annual Competition
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 15:07:58 EST
From: "Rich Byrnes" <rich.byrnes@e-mail.com>
Subject: Celis Distribution
Adding to the Celis-Miller thread.......
I heard from my retail buddies that Miller was pulling Celis off the
shelf, or holding back orders while they prepare to release the Celis
Raspberry with a grand promotion and introduction of the Celis line,
could be bunk but not too unbelievable.
FWIW I would be interested in the Celis Grand-Cru-Bru experiment,yum!
Rich Byrnes
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen
"Design something idiot proof and someone will design a better idiot!"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 15:13:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Todd Kirby <mkirby@bgsm.edu>
Subject: Cider Question
This isn't strictly beer related, but I'm hoping to get some
help. I recently attempted (for the first time) a cider. After looking
through Cat's Meow at the various recipes, I came up with the following:
5 Gallons Apple Juice (no Na-Benzoate)
2 Lbs Brown Sugar
1 Lb Honey
1 Cup Sucrose (didn't quite have enough brown sugar)
Dry EDME Ale Yeast (1 packet)
Several recipes in CM3 and other places recommended boiling for a short
while (15 min) so I did and all seemed well. This stuff fermented madly
for nearly 2 weeks, then slowed to a more steady rate and seems about
finished (2 weeks later). I have a feeling that I "pectinized" the cider
by boiling, as it is extremely cloudy and shows no signs of settling. I'm
wondering how (if) I can clear it some, but I'm unsure whether the cloudiness
is due to yeast, pectin, or both. Any suggestions on what I should do
next? Also, will cider "skunk" if overexposed to light like beer?
Thanks in advance,
Todd K.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 96 12:29:45 PST
From: krkoupa@ccmail2.srv.PacBell.COM
Subject: Make Your Own Balance Scale Weights
Thanks to all those who responded to me about balance scale weights. At
issue: I use commercial brass gram weights and my recipes are in ounces.
Anyone can do the conversions. My problem was that I didn't want to plunk
down 20g + 5g + 2g + 1g + 200mg + 100mg + 50mg weights to make up an ounce.
What a PITA! I want to plunk down one weight, period, end of activity.
Summary: No one found a commercial source for fractional or whole ounce
balance scale weights, so I assume there isn't one. Suggestions ranged from
"string together washers" to "use fishing weights" to "coil up lengths of
solder" to "make your own." Based on this last suggestion, heavy mathematics
to follow ...
How to make your own avoirdupois brass weights:
Materials Information Source: Heat Transfer, 3rd ed., Chapman
Brass rod at Orchard Supply Hardware is probably yellow brass, not red
brass. I've included the density of red brass just in case I'm wrong (for
you to calculate.)
532 lbm/ft3 Yellow Brass (70 Cu, 30 Zn)
544 lbm/ft3 Red Brass (85 Cu, 9 Sn, 6 Zn)
12 in/ft
16 oz/lbm
4.9259 oz/in3 Density, Yellow Brass, used in calculations (below)
28.35 grams/ounce
0.24 grams is the empirical average weight of a typical hop pellet.
( 50 pellets weighs about 12 grams. )
Length Formula: l = w / p A = 4 w / p Pi d2
l = length (inches), w = weight (oz), p = rho = density (oz/in3),
A = cross sectional area (inches squared) = Pi r2 = 1/4 Pi d2
Pi = 3.14 etc., d2 = diameter of brass rod (inches squared.)
( Note: combining Pi & Rho does not yield flames!
Aw said thatsa joke, son. )
Length Inches at: Diameter Brass Rod (inches)
Desired 1/4" 3/16" 1/8"
Ounces (Decimal) 0.25" 0.1875" 0.125"
1/8 0.125 0.517" 0.919" 2.068"
1/4 0.250 1.034" 1.838" 4.136"
3/8 0.375 1.551" 2.757" 6.203"
1/2 0.500 2.068" 3.676" 8.271"
5/8 0.625 2.585" 4.595" 10.339"
3/4 0.750 3.102" 5.514" 12.407"
7/8 0.875 3.619" 6.433" 14.475"
1 1.000 4.136" 7.352" 16.543"
( Anything longer than 5" seems unreasonable to put on
a balance scale. )
How precise do I have to cut it? My hack saw blade removes up to 1/8":
Diameter Brass Rod (in.)
Weight per 1/8" using: 1/4" 3/16" 1/8"
Decimal Ounces: 0.030 0.017 0.008
Gram Equivalency: 0.857 0.482 0.214
Hop Pellet Equiv.: 3.6 2 0.9
But, in case fractional inches aren't your thing, here's a suggested simple
3-weight homebrewer's set using 1/4" brass rod, and a reasonable
perspective of what you'd miss if you rounded to the nearest inch:
1/4 oz using exactly 1 inch, is light by 3.3%
= 0.24 gram = equivalent to 1 hop pellet. Pretty close.
1/2 oz using exactly 2 inches, is light by 3.3%
= 0.48 gram = equivalent to 2 hop pellets. Fair, but OK.
1 oz using exactly 4 inches, is light by 3.3%
= 0.96 gram = equivalent to 4 hop pellets. Not so good.
A more precise 1/4" brass rod set would be:
1/4 oz is 1 and 1/32 inches
1/2 oz is 2 and 1/16 inches
1 oz is 4 and 1/8 inches
Conclusions: 1. Cut as close as you want, realizing the weight-to-length
relationship. Cut them long; fine tune them with a file. Cross reference
them with your gram set. If you're lazy and round to the nearest inch of
1/4" brass, add a few more hop pellets, or hop cones, or boil longer, or add
the hops sooner.
2. The smaller diameter brass rod gives more precision per unit length
than the larger diameter rod, but the smaller diameter rod may become too
long to use. I suppose you could coil up the thin brass rod if you want.
3. You don't have to use brass. Fishin' weights (in ounces) are pretty
darned cheap, and you can fine tune them with a pocket knife. Of course,
they look like fishing weights on a fancy balance scale.
By the way, 1 ounce = 28.35 grams = 11 US pennies = 5 US quarters.
Hope this helps. I still wish someone had a handsome brass ounce weight
set for sale. (Any manufacturers out there?) Usual "NAWA" disclaimer.
(Not Affiliated/Associated With Anyone/Anything referenced, indicated, or
suggested in this posting.)
Ken Koupal krkoupa@ccmail2.pacbell.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 Feb 1996 15:34:08 EST
From: "Rich Byrnes" <rich.byrnes@e-mail.com>
Subject: gas mixes
My local welding supplier sells a 60/40 co2-n2 mixture for beverage
dispensing, you can put this in either a co2 tank with a standard
valve and regulator OR a nitrogen tank with a nitrogen valve and
nitrogen regulator-the only difference being the valve is male
threaded for one and female for the other. they had no qualms about
filling a standard co2 tank with this blend, and they have been in
business for well over 30 years if that means anything.
I've got a spare tank I'm gonna have filled real soon with this blend
and would like like to hear from someone who has carbonated and/or
dispensed with this blend, I'm intrigued!
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1966, 02/22/96
*************************************
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