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HOMEBREW Digest #1935
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/01/15 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1935 Mon 15 January 1996
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
NEW from Sam Adams (Phil Brushaber)
Your in hot water now young man! (Steve Comella)
caramelising sugars and STEAM beer (Andy Walsh)
isinglass shelf life? (wirwin)
Reality, Open Ferm (Jack Schmidling)
beerchat starting to gain support... (John Herman)
thermostats (dludwig)
Undeliverable Message (MS2)
Undeliverable Message (MS2)
where in europe to go? ("Rick Violet")
Air Ionizers and Sanitation (CBARNHAR)
5 liter mini kegs (SSLOFL)
Candied Camera, Great shop (Russell Mast)
open fermentation / pectinase (GREGORY KING)
brewers resource (Alec Saunders)
COOKER BTU RATING? (k6eid)
Any experience with QUOIN "Party Pig"? (Daniel T. Hedberg )
pH & hot break, tannins & PVPP, more Crabtree... ("Tracy Aquilla")
Wyeast's Scottish Ale yeast temperature range? (Derrick Pohl)
Good service from Quoin, too (Jacob Galley)
oxygen equipment (Rick Larson)
fruit beers (Waverly)" <kbooth@isd.ingham.k12.mi.us>
Hop tea/Fruit beer question ("William G. Rucker")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 19:20:00 -0600
From: phil.brushaber@lunatic.com (Phil Brushaber)
Subject: NEW from Sam Adams
For what it's worth, I thought you might be interested in some
Samuel Adams promotional information I recently received at my
restaurant.
NEW BREWS IN 1996
Golden Pilsner (out 2/96)
- Comment: If you stick around long enough
everything comes full-circle
- 2-Row Barley, Saaz and Spalt Hops
- BBC Description: A traditional Bohemian Pilsner,
medium bodied and full of flavor
(Hold on to your hat)
HOMEBREWS (out 5/96)
- Comment: Homebrew from a commercial brewery?
Kind of like "Homemade Jelly" from Smucker's
- Ale, Lager, Specialty
- BBC Description: Introduction of a new line of
homebrews selected from 1,600 homebrews
from around the world. Winners chosen by an
all-star panel (Michael Jackson, Jim Koch,
Joseph Owades and the BBC master brewers)
For what it's worth.
- ----
The Lunatic Fringe * Richardson, TX * 214-235-5288 * Home Of FringeNet
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 19:54:59 -0700
From: brew2u@azstarnet.com (Steve Comella)
Subject: Your in hot water now young man!
>Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 09:29:45 -0700 (MST)
>From: "Richard R. Cox" <cox@fortnet.org>
>Subject: Adding boiling water to mash
>
>
>I'm preparing to make my first all-grain batch using a
>converted Rubbermaid-Gott cooler as a combined mash/lauter
>tun. So far, I've read several accounts from people who
>compensate for the heating and volume limitations of the
>cooler by using boiling water to boost mash temperatures or
>achieve mashout. My question is this: won't adding boiling
>water directly to the mash have the same affect as boiling
>the mash (i.e. leaching of tannins and astringency)? Or does
>the mash temperature stabilize quickly enough that this is
>not a a problem?
>
>Thanks in advance for your combined wisdom.
I think the difference here is in the *mash* temperature as opposed to
the strike temperature. For example, by boiling the mash, the *mash*
reaches 203F (boiling temp here).
However, by adding a pre-determined amount of 203F water *to* the
mash, the temperature of the mash will stabilize at 128F or 155F or
whatever your target temperature may be.
The important thing here is *to stir* while *slowly* adding the boiling
water to the mash. This reduces the possibility of *hot spots* in
your mash.
Steve Comella
brew2u@azstarnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:32:33 +1100 (EST)
From: awalsh@crl.com.au (Andy Walsh)
Subject: caramelising sugars and STEAM beer
Hello.
There has been some discussion recently on caramelising sucrose as a
replacement for candi sugar for brewing. I have some comments on this.
What is caramel? How do you make it? How far do you take the process?
With reference to the "New Larousse Gastronomique", the world's greatest
cookery reference book, according to the cover (! - how many homebrewing
books make similar claims?), boiling sugar takes it through a number of
stages, named according to the manner the sugar behaves after being cooled.
The temperatures shown are the temperatures at which the stages are reached
(interestingly in another paragraph it makes contradictory claims about
these temperatures!)
small thread
large thread
small ball
large ball
light crack 129C
medium crack 133C
hard crack 143C
extra hard crack 168C
caramel 180C
The book says to first make a syrup by dissolving the sugar in 1/3 of its
weight of water, and to heat it in a heavy based saucepan, without stirring
as it causes graining. Another way of preventing graining is to add 100g
glucose per 500g sucrose.
Charlie Scandrett has expressed concerns about heating in direct fired pots
causing uncontrollable scorching at the metal/solution boundary. Fortunately
us homebrewers usually would only want to make small quantities of caramel,
so if we heat sugar syrup in a clear glass bowl in a microwave oven, we can
observe the colour and remove it at the correct stage, and be assured of
fairly even heating.
I have done this twice now, in an attempt to get some caramel flavour into
Belgian ales. Both were around 1.070 OG. In the first (I'll call it Fred) I
caramelised 500g sugar (just to a light amber colour) in a 45 litre batch,
and added an additional (uncaramelised) 500g sucrose to the boil. In the
second darker beer (Pete) I caramelised 1Kg of sugar to a dark amber colour.
I added both as (hot!) liquid to boiling wort. (Be careful if you do this!
180C caramel has massive boilover potential. Add it slowly and carefully!)
Well it worked! Both beers have an excessive caramel/sweet flavour and
aroma. Fred finished at 1.016 and Pete at 1.022. The aroma is quite nice
with fragant caramel tones but strong. The flavour in both is just over the
top caramel. I fermented both with the same yeast strain (Yeastlabs Belgian)
and I use pure O2 aeration etc..
*If* I try caramelising sugar again, I would use possibly use just 100g in a
45l batch. I think some Belgian ales benefit from a little caramel
aroma/taste (eg. dubbels), but the amounts I used are excessive. I do not
know how the Belgians make their dark candi sugar but I think my technique
is way off the track somewhere. Probably a better way to get the caramel
taste is to use speciality Belgian crystal malts (unavailable to me). I am
yet to read in beer mags/books a thorough treatment of caramel.
**************
Steam beer? Is it true this has been trademarked worldwide? Could a brewery
open in Australia (just for *example*!) and make and sell "Steam" beer, or
would they risk the wrath/lawsuits of Fritz Maytag?
*************************************************************
Andy Walsh from Sydney
email: awalsh@world.net (or awalsh@crl.com.au if you prefer)
I still don't know what a Wohlgemuth unit is.
*************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 20:47:46 -0700
From: wirwin@envisionet.net
Subject: isinglass shelf life?
oh great multitude... would anyone hazard a guess as to the shelf life of
kent's isinglass solution if kept refrigerated? many thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 96 21:36 CST
From: arf@mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Reality, Open Ferm
>From: merino@cynergy.com.au (Charlie Scandrett)
>Subject: Gorrilla proofing Maltmills
>I live in Brisbane, Australia, Maltmills haven't migrated here yet. I was
basing it on what I thought would be adequate.
They are a bit of an endangered species DownUnder but there are a few.
>I have a suggestion which would stop all such breakages. If the shaft is
3/8" and not 3/4", then it has a much lower resistance to bending.
Time for a reality check. The "problem" I reported on has occurred
possibly 3 times that I am aware of. I simply brought it up because in
all of the cases, chains and or gears were used to drive the mill and I
suspect a connection between the two. Someone posted a
recommendation that I (the one who must honor the lifetime warranty)
do not agree with.
I pride myself in having a totally reliable product and need to really dig
to find problems at this stage in the evolution of the product. This one
seems to be one that is best solved by the customer as opposed to
a major redisign that would simply serve to increase the cost without
any serious impact on the reliability.
Just for the record, the MMII has a 5/8" shaft
>From: Tom Messenger <kmesseng@slonet.org>
>2. Maltmills: no need to power them. But if you are lazy... use a portable
drill. The proprietor of Doc's Cellar in Pismo Beach used to grind his
customers malt with this method and I timed him at 10 pounds in about two
and a half minutes. I bought a mill and fretted when I found my drill had
only about 90% enough power to run it. ....
I used to demonstrate the MM with a Black and Decker Cordless with
about 1% of the power required to run the mill fully loaded. If you prefer
not to crank, just hand feed the malt at a rate your drill can accommodate.
You can also close up the grain guide opening with a piece of tape and
acomplish the same purpose.
js
>From: Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH@kbs.msu.edu>
>I would like to begin experimenting with open fermentation and
would like to hear from those of you who do it routinely....
What exactly defines "open" fermentation? Is it still considered "open" if I
place the lid loosely on the fermenter? (Yes, according to Jim B.)
If you accept Jim's definition, then I "do it routinely" but I think it a
bit of a stretch to call something with a lid on it, "open". Open
fermenter brings to my mind, big wooden vats in dusty old
breweries with cob webs hanging all over. There are all sorts of
risks in this approach but the results speak for themselves.
The idea of fermenting in a glass carboy with an airlock and mucking
around with blowoff gives me a headache but is the other extreme.
I have been fermenting in my mash tun for years and would not do it
any other way. After sparging is complete, I dump the spent grain.
(actually, I give it to the chickens now), boil a quart of water for in
it for a few minutes with the lid on and then put it in the fridge,
ready for fermenting.
Nothing could be simpler or more convenient.
>I assume that the "open" period should begin as soon as a krauesen
layer covers the surface of the fermenting beer and should last until
the foam begins to subside and break apart. Any dissention yet?
Yes. You will have to find a new word to make sense out of that
statement. If you cover it, it ain't open and if you don't cover it , you
are nuts. Well, lets just say there is no reason for not covering it.
I leave it in the primary fermenter with a lid on for about 10 days or until;
the wort clears. I don't mean xtal clear but that point when a large
quantity of beer, seen from the top, turns from a milky look to very
dark. It is then kegged and conditioned. If you don't keg, you would
put it in a carboy with an airlock at this time to fully clear before
bottling.
js
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 21:27:42 -0600 (CST)
From: John Herman <jmherman@gonix.gonix.com>
Subject: beerchat starting to gain support...
I just wanted to let everyone know that I have put some info on how to
get to beerchat on my homepage and there seems to be a few people
stopping in to check it out. my homepage is :
http://www.gonix.com/jmherman/jmbeer.html
check it out! happy homebrewing!
*************************************************************************
* John M. Herman | Internet: jmherman@gonix.com *
*************************************************************************
* Amateur Freelance Programmer With Absolutely No Experience *
* homebrewing cuz its fun to make your own brew!!!! *
*************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 01:09:49 -0500
From: dludwig@atc.ameritel.net
Subject: thermostats
Regarding my post on 1/5 concerning an application of the Hunter Set n Save
thermostat for a cool beer frig, I've had quite a few requests for details
so I decided to post my response to the HBD for public scrutiny. (I have no
affiliation with any of the companies mentioned in this post)
The thermostat is a Hunter Set 'n Save I (model 42204) and costs about $27
at Lowes. It's powered by a AA battery, has an LCD and is programmable over
a temperature range of 40 to 90 deg F. It displays actual temperature down
to 32 deg F. This is the cheapest digital thermostat I could find. The stat
is designed to replace your home thermostat and for 26 VAC. My freezer has a
rudimentry thermostat that switches the 110 VAC house current to the
compressor and since the Hunter is designed to switch 26 VAC, I had to build
a transformer/rectifier/ relay(TRR) unit. My freezer draws 2.2 Amps so my
relay needed to handle that with some margin. The parts for the TRR came
from radio shack and are as follows:
273-1512 25.2V transformer (1)
276-1141 Epoxy Rectifier(diode) (2)
272-1020 2200 uF capacitor (1)
275-248 Mini 10A SPDT relay (1)
276-149 PC board (1)
270-744 PC-mount fuse clips (set)
271-110 Thermistor (1)
rubber grommets
Metal box
The TRR is a simple transformer with full-wave rectifier and a capacitor to
smooth out the dc. I use a 1 amp fuse to the transformer but that's probably
overkill. The Mini 10amp relay is mounted to the board and has plenty of
rating for this application. All of the electronic parts cost about $22. But
you could get by cheaper if you had some old electronics laying around. I
won't go into detail on how to build the board. Check out the "Building
Power Supplies" book at radio shack. I knew little about power supplies
until I bought that book and had a great time building it!
The set n save uses a thermistor that is also identical to the one sold at
radio shack. I removed the thermistor and attached leads to the stat board
that attach to the temp probe I made. I wanted to mount a temp probe
somewhere inside the freezer approximately mid level. I built the probe by
soldering leads to a new thermistor and coating the thermistor and soldered
leads (bare metal) with 5 minute epoxy. I put a pretty good glob of glue on
the thermistor/leads and rotated the mess around to form a hardened glob of
glue big enough in diameter so that a 3/16 ID tube would form an
interference fit over it and also made sure that the glob was not over the
actual thermistor, but over the soldered part. I formed a very thin layer of
epoxy over the thermistor by doing this. I think this helps with the
temperature sensing response of the thermistor although the mass of glue
over the leads has some negative effect but not a big deal in my opinion. I
wanted to slide the tube over the glue glob to form a tight seal and the
tube goes through the freezer wall protecting the leads. I installed the
temperature probe and soldered the leads to the board (where the old
thermistor was). Before I did all this I satisfied myself that the
thermistors were the same by comparing the resistances with a digital
multimeter. I am very familiar with this particular thermistor since I use a
similarly made probe for all my mashes by reading resistance and using
calibration curves made from the calibration data on the back of the
thermistor package. Once I assembled and soldered the leads to the board, I
calibrated the unit by soaking the probe in an ice bath(with some salt) and
made sure the unit read 32 degrees(actually 33 with occasional 32 deg
showing on the display). The set n save has a pot for calibration. Mine
didn't really need much fiddling to get it right.
The wiring of the TRR takes a little creativity to make it neat. Mine is
wired so that the existing freezer thermostat is still operational which is
set at the highest setting(highest temp) so that if my thermostat fails, the
resulting beer sickles will be not as hard as they could be. If I were to
do it over, I would make a plug in/plugout box rather than try to make an
integral installation. By doing so, you could easily take the unit from cold
box to cold box.
Everything is working good. I have the unit set at 40 deg F (I do like cold
beer!). Temperature varies from 39 to 41 deg F(unit kicks on after 12
seconds when 42 deg is reached). When I get ready to lager, it will be
simple to set my desired lagering temperature. The set n save will also
accept a time/day based temperature schedule although I have yet to find a
real use for this unless the feature could be used to gradually reduce the
fermentation temperature of a lager over a period of a week or less. Hope
this helps. Have fun!
-Dave Ludwig in Snowy Southern MD
------------------------------
Date: 12 JAN 96 03:43:04 EST
From: MS2@os.dhhs.gov
Subject: Undeliverable Message
To: Phil White@ASMB.BUDG@OS.DC
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Cc:
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1933 (January 12, 1996)
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Date: 12 JAN 96 03:43:04 EST
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Subject: Homebrew Digest #1933 (January 12, 1996)
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jan 1996 02:50:23 -0800
From: "Rick Violet" <rick_violet@powertalk.apple.com>
Subject: where in europe to go?
I'm hoping to vacation in europe this fall. Anyone know where I can get info
on good beer related places to visit? Anyone ever join or know of groups
touring beer related sites? Any comments are welcome by private email. I'll
post a summary if enough comes in.
Thanks in advance,
Rick.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jan 1996 12:36:31 -0800
From: CBARNHAR@ria-emh2.army.mil
Subject: Air Ionizers and Sanitation
Hi All,
I was wondering the other day, are air ionizers beneficial to
sanitation. Would the presence of one tend to reduce the possibility
of airborne contamination? They apparently work by flooding the air
with negatively charged ions which attach themselves to dust, smoke
(and bacteria?) then rush towards the nearest postively charged
surface such as walls, ceilings, and appliances where they stick like
magnets. This scrubbing action would seem to reduce some of the
airborne contaminents that are present when preparing yeast starters
or around open cooled wort. Just curious.
Chris Barnhart
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:36:57 -0600
From: SSLOFL@ccmail.monsanto.com
Subject: 5 liter mini kegs
Has anyone out there had success using a 5 liter mini keg setup
with the CO2 bulb dispenser? I wanted to know how to use one
correctly before putting another batch of beer in one and finding that
I can't get it to work right.
I tried twice before - once with rootbeer and once with a
strawberry ale. The rootbeer came out very carbonated at first - it
filled the glass with foam and left only 1 inch of pop after the foam
settled - overkill!. However, after the pop had settled, the
remaining rootbeer was flat. I turned down the serving pressure and
ran a little out, then tried again. Less foam evolved after lowering
the pressure, and the pop came out in a steady stream with a nice head
on it. I thought I had it right, but the same thing happened - it
went flat within 5 minutes of serving. I had bottled the rest of the
rootbeer batch for comparison, it was great. The bottled rootbeer had
a good head on it, but held the carbonation much better - it didn't go
flat after 5 minutes. Therefore, I proved to myself that there was
something wrong with the keg and not the rootbeer. I used rootbeer
first because it is very cheap to make, I didn't want to mess up a
precious batch of beer on the first try with the new kegs - good thing
I didn't!
I then tried with a batch of strawberry ale, which I later found to
be infected. The bottled strawberry ale had a good carbonation level,
and had good head retention. The kegged strawberry ale was the same
as the kegged rootbeer - the head quickly disappeared, and the beer
tasted flat within 5 minutes. Of course, in either form, the
strawberry ale was infected and tasted like s*&t! Even though it was
infected, the bottled form stayed carbonated longer - so I concluded
again that it was the fault of the keg as far as carbonation problems
were concerned.
I want to try again , but am seeking advice first. Can anyone out
there give me some advice on how to use one of these with good results
- or if it is even possible to get good results from them? Yes, I
know, buy a real kegging system .... I am building a home-brewery in
my basement and don't have the money right now - and I bought the kegs
awhile ago and wish to get some of my moneys worth out of them. Maybe
I am using the wrong amount of priming sugar, or my serving pressure
is adjusted incorrectly. Are there any other tricks, like using more
hops for better head retention or only using mini kegs for heavier
bodied or lightly carbonated styles? Please ...., someone .., I'm
losing my mind!!!!
Private e-mail is fine, or post responses on the HBD if you feel
others may benefit or care. TIA.
Shane Lofland
(sslofl@ccmail.monsanto.com)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:37:17 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Candied Camera, Great shop
> Russ writes:
> >Can anyone tell me a reason not to just make my own rock candy and toss that
> >in my beers?
Al responds:
> No need to make it into rocks. White candi sugar == sucrose == table sugar.
> Just use it (tm)!
Okay, the reason I initially asked was that someone was saying it's special
because it's been crytallized, and that makes it super-pure. In fact, they
specifically said not to use regular table sugar because it wasn't pure enough.
This strikes me as, well, silly, now that I bother to think about it.
On the other hand, when I was initially brewing, I had all kinds of people tell
me to -never- use table sugar, and only use corn sugar if I wanted to add pure
sugar. So, what's the "real" story? Is this just another example of Belgians
breaking the rules and getting great results? I've been told that sucrose
adds "off" flavors that glucose doesn't. Are these flavors important to some
styles? Is there something magical about larger crystals that makes them work
better for these styles?
> As for dark candi sugar, yes, just caramelize table sugar syrup and use that.
Any VOE? (Voice o' Experience) I'll definately try that in a batch soon.
> From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd@uchastings.edu>
> Subject: pH strips
>
> I just ordered 200 strips, at 1.50 a hundred, from American Surplus and
> Scientific.
It's American Scientific and Surplus, I thought. Whichever. I have pH strips
from there, and they're as good as any I've ever tried. Which is to say -
not that good. I can only read them to within a half a pH or so on a good
day. YMMV.
One thing I will say, though, is that AS&S is one of the greatest stores on
the planet. If you live in Chicago, or visit Chicago and have a couple hours,
definately go check them out. I buy loads of stuff for brewing and my other
hobby (DIY stereo, with vacuum tubes and all that) at the store, as well as
tons of toys and other weird crap. Just browsing the store is loads of fun.
Order from the catalog if you see something you need, but there's always more
stuff in the store than the catalogs. Definately worth a side-trip now and
then.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:59:08 -0500 (EST)
From: GREGORY KING <GKING@ARSERRC.Gov>
Subject: open fermentation / pectinase
jfrane@teleport.com (Jeff Frane) wrote in HBD #1933 about open
fermentations:
>Since I started doing open fermentations (encouraged by Jim Busch),
>I have not looked back. Blow-off hoses are gone forever.
>
>I regularly ferment in a converted keg/kettle, doing ten gallon
>batches that finish out in a matter of days. It's typical that
>a 1.045 beer will be coming out of the tap ten days after brew
>day. I attribute this to two factors: yeast selection and the
>tremendous improvement in aeration that I got when I switched to
>open fermenters. <snip>
I was all set to try Jeff's open fermentation technique for my next
batch until I read a posting from korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
later in the same HBD:
>You don't want to aerate after the fermentation begins. <snip> Aeration
>after fermentation begins will increase the
>production of diacetyl and can lead to high levels of aldehydes in the
>finished beer.
I'm hoping that Jeff and/or Al will write a follow-up posting to clarify
this apparent discrepancy.
***
Hugh Graham <hugh@lamar.ColoState.EDU> wrote (also in HBD #1933):
>Will _any_ protease rid my melomel of a potential pectin haze?
>Probably not I assume.
>What's that enzyme used for zapping chill haze? Will that work?
>The name escapes me but I know I've got some somewhere.. . .
Pectin is a saccharidic (i.e. sugar) polymer, not a protein. The
enzyme pectinase helps to break pectin into its constituent sugars.
I'm not sure if pectinase is commercially available or not.
Greg King
gking@arserrc.gov
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 10:07:20 -0800
From: Alec Saunders <alecs@microsoft.com>
Subject: brewers resource
just in case some of you haven't heard of these folks, they're a mailorder
homebrew company with a pretty good selection of some of the more esoteric
pieces of equipment. I usually buy all of my supplies and equipment at
evergreen because it's convenient, but these folks carry such unusual items
as yeast culture kits, wort aeration kits, and other goodies that Mark at
Evergreen doesn't stock. Call 800-8BREWTE for a catalog.
as
begin 600 WINMAIL.DAT
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`
end
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 13:16:14 PST
From: k6eid@avana.net
Subject: COOKER BTU RATING?
I saw some messages on this a few months ago but didn't keep notes. Sorry!
What is an acceptable BTU rating for a cooker? I saw a 170K BTU unit at
Sam's Club for $50. Is this adequate?
Thanks, Phil
- -------------------------------------
Name: Phil Finkle
E-mail: k6eid@avana.net
Date: 01/12/96
Time: 13:16:14
This message was sent by Chameleon
- -------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 11:00:21 -0800
From: dhedberg@ix.netcom.com (Daniel T. Hedberg )
Subject: Any experience with QUOIN "Party Pig"?
Richard Nantel asked for input (in HBD #1930 (01/09/96)) about
the pros and cons of Mini vs Corney Kegs.
I am also new to HBD and am similarly considering buying a
kegging system. My apologies to all if I expand this topic a
bit, but in addition to the Mini and Corney kegs, has anyone out
there had experience with the QUOIN "Party Pig"? The
manufacturer tells me that a growing number of brewpubs are using
the party pigs to sell beer off-site to their regular customers.
I would think that these "Pigs" must be durable if they are used
by brewpubs and that they must keep beer fresh for at least a few
weeks (unlike the Mini kegs which I'm told beer gets flat if not
consumed within a week or so). However my local homebrew supply
store won't carry the party pig explaining that he the Pig uses
less than industrial grade materials (read "plastic") and that he
had heard (secondhand) that they leak. I'm leaning toward the
Pig due to space limitations (they supposedly fit in a mini-
fridge) and the relatively low price (roughly $82 for 2 Pigs and
all accessories). Yet, I'm nervous about wasting my money on a
products I've heard so little about. Any input + or - would be
appreciated.
BTW - I did attempt to research this using the Archive files
before posting, but I'm not familiar with the type of files or
compression method used in the Archive files (i.e. "1995ind.z").
Pardon my ignorance but can any point me in the right direction?
Thanks to all HBD'ers out there with the patience to answer the
questions of "newbies" such as myself, I'm learning a lot!
Daniel Hedberg
Private E-mail OK @ dhedberg@ix.netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 14:49:56 CST
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: pH & hot break, tannins & PVPP, more Crabtree...
In Digest #1933, korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) says:
[snip]
>It's fine to say yes, but it doesn't help if you don't explain. [snip] A pH of
>less than 5.0 will extract even less [tannin], but then you begin to have
>problems with break formation in the boil.
Can you please explain how a pH below 5 interferes with the hot break? Thanks.
[snip]
>but the fining that *will* remove tannins is PVPP (aka Polyclar). It will
>not remove proteins...[snip]
How's that? I've read this before, but have a hard time accepting it without
an explanation of the mechanism of this selectivity. What am I missing?
and jfrane@teleport.com (Jeff Frane) says:
[snip]
>Since I started doing open fermentations (encouraged by Jim Busch),
>I have not looked back. Blow-off hoses are gone forever.
Do you also open-ferment lagers (if you make lagers)? I do open fermentation
with certain top-cropping strains (ales, weizens, etc.), but wouldn't
recommend it for bottom-croppers for various reasons, including: 1) not much
of a mat to protect the wort from airborne contaminants, 2) the lager fridge
is full of these nasty critters, 3) lager strains ferment more slowly,
making contamination more of a potential problem. Personally, I haven't
noticed any differences in quality between ales produced using open and
closed fermentations, which can be attributed to the open fermentation.
Since you don't really want to get into the 'whys', I'll keep my question
simple. Would you please describe the improvements in quality you've noted
in your open-fermented beers? Thanks.
and Hugh Graham <hugh@lamar.ColoState.EDU> says:
[snip]
>Studies in our lab indicate that S. cerevisae do use oxygen when subject
>to the Crabtree effect. They make a cytochrome (oxygen transport related
>enzyme) during glucose repressed growth that is not found during anaerobic
>fermentation. Furthermore, dissolved oxygen measurements indicate that
>oxygen _is_ being consumed while glucose levels are high and ethanol is
>being produced (though not as much as in non-repressed growth). Typically
>the biosmass yield (weight of bugs per weight of glucose) drops from about
>50% to 15-20% under catabolite repression. These experiments do not bear
>a close relationship to conditions found in brewing but they indicate that
>Crabtree effect fermentation is somewhat different from anaerobic
>fermentation. Anybody want a reference? Tracy?
Excellent! Yes, I'd certainly like the reference and I'm glad to see others
contributing to this discussion. This post gives me the opportunity to
expound a bit on this rather obscure subject. This is where we get into the
exceptions to the rule and some minor biochemical pathways. It is
well-documented that Saccharomycetes do utilize oxygen during fermentation
(if it's available). However, the overwhelming majority of this O2 is used
in biosynthesis of ergosterol and unsaturated fatty acids, not as the final
electron acceptor in respiration. OTOH, in the glucose repressed state,
yeast in aerobic culture are actually "respiro-fermentative", meaning that
both respiration and fermentation occur simultaneously, although to a very
limited extent. This may be the source of the common misconception that
yeast respire upon pitching. However, only a very small (essentially
negligible) amount respiration occurs in the presence of available sugars,
and the vast majority of enzymes involved in respiration are strongly
down-regulated (mitochondria are also rather small and poorly developed)
during glucose repression. This "leaky" control of expression allows carbon
to enter the biosynthetic pathways through the most efficient route. So now
we have three different modes for our yeast: 1) respiro-fermentative in the
presence of glucose and O2 (=aerobic fermentation), 2) fermentative in the
absence of O2 (=anaerobic fermentation), and 3) 'diauxic' in the presence of
O2 and ethanol and the absence of sugar (=respiration).
>
>>I am looking forward to Tracy's paper.
>
>Me too. Where will we find it?
I'll post it to the digest and r.c.b, then I'll download it to the Brewery.
Since I have a day job and am preparing two 'real' manuscripts for
publication at this time, I'm lagging behind a little on the yeast article,
but it's coming.
>In any case, oxygenation/aeration is performed to make the yeast happy
>(plentiful in sterols etc.) so that full attenuation occurs. It seems to
>me that any link with lag time is inferred by the assumption propagated in
>the homebrew literature that yeast reproduction only occurs in the
>presence of oxygen. (More O2 => more propagation => more yeasties
>=> shorter lag). Which, as this thread has mentioned, is not the exact truth.
Actually, I think "(More O2 => more propagation => more yeasties => shorter
lag)" is basically true, but I'd just like to add that not only is it
generally inferred in the homebrewing literature that O2 is needed for yeast
growth/reproduction (it isn't), but that this O2 is deemed necessary because
the yeast MUST respire in order to grow. This is patently false and I
believe is where the real problem lies and folks get confused. S. cerevisiae
is one of the few species of yeast which has absolutely no requirement for O2.
and finally, korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) says:
[snip]
>It is also important to consider the contribution of the Pasteur effect.
>While the Crabtree effect is the yeast foresaking oxygen to ferment
>anaerobically in the presence of too much glucose, the Pasteur effect is
>the yeast foresaking glucose to respire in the presence of a lot of oxygen.
>So, if we have enough oxygen in the wort, the yeast will respire *despite*
>the high glucose levels...[snip]
Saccharomyces species do not exhibit the Pasteur effect. In fact, they
exhibit what is called the reverse-Pasteur effect. When a fermenting culture
is given an excess of O2 the yeast actually ferment faster, instead of
switching to respiration. The more O2 you give them, the faster they ferment
and produce ethanol and CO2 (to a point), but with sugar available they
don't respire. The best way to study oxygen consumption in yeasts is to use
a chemostat. In a chemostat culture, one can get yeast to respire at
incredibly high levels if sugar is limiting and O2 is in excess
(particularly if the medium is supplemented with certain organic acids).
However, once glucose is introduced, ethanol is produced instantly. It is
virtually impossible to get yeast to respire in the presence of abundant
sugars (eg. wort).
(See Antonie van Leeuwenhoek 63(3-4):343-52, 1993 and Adv. Microb. Physiol.
28:181-209, 1986 for the details.)
Tracy in Vermont
aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 12:27:21 -0800
From: pohl@unixg.ubc.ca (Derrick Pohl)
Subject: Wyeast's Scottish Ale yeast temperature range?
I'd like to know how cold is too cold for Wyeast's Scottish Ale yeast.
I have a batch of "wee heavy" Scottish Ale (O.G. 1.076) that's been 3 or 4
weeks in the secondary. All visible signs of fermentation have stopped,
but I don't know if this is because it's done, or because the temperature
in the brewing cupboard has dropped to 12-13 deg. C (53-55 deg. F). It
fermented vigourously in the primary, but it was warmer in the cupboard
then, about 16 or 17 deg. C, from which the temperature has dropped
gradually.
I could find only one brief reference to Wyeast Scottish Ale yeast on the
whole web, including searching through the ftp.stanford.edu brewing
archive. I haven't been able to search the HBD archives because the search
engine linked to from Spencer's Beer Page
(http://www-personal.umich.edu/~spencer/beer/) is down.
Does anyone know, either from datasheets or personal experience, how cold
this yeast can remain active? Or even the typical attenuation, so I can at
least take a gravity reading and make a guess as to whether it's finished?
- -----
Derrick Pohl <pohl@unixg.ubc.ca>
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:34:20 -0600 (CST)
From: Jacob Galley <jgalley@tezcat.com>
Subject: Good service from Quoin, too
Hello. A friend of mine forwarded me the post praising customer
service at HopTech. This inspired me to write in about the service I
got from Quoin Industries, the manufacturer of the Party Pig minikeg
system. The two times I called them, they were very helpful.
The first time was a technical issue. When filling my pig for the
second time, I inserted the pressure pouch into the Pig upside-down by
mistake, and it did not inflate. I called the number listed in
directory assistance (303 279-8731), hoping that someone there could
give me some advice. They did! The man I talked to was very
knowledgable (he may have been the Pig's inventor for all I know), and
he told me that all I had to do was turn the Pig upside down after
pressurizing it and the pouch would inflate. Apparently the chemicals
in the pressure pouch weren't mixing because gravity was pulling the
wrong way. I took his advice and everything was fine---and the beer
was good.
The second time I called, I was inquiring about replacing the Pig
itself (ie. the PET container), because I had deformed the original
one by rinsing it with near-boiling water (yes, a stupid idea). They
were willing to send me a replacement for only $9.50, which seems
pretty good considering that the whole set-up costs about $40.
Anyway, I haven't dealt with any other kegging hardware or service
reps, but I'm very satisfied with both the Party Pig system and
Quoin's service.
(I'm not a HBD subscriber; Russ Mast is my filter.)
Jake.
Reinheitsgebot <-- "Keep your laws off my beer!" <-- jgalley@tezcat.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 15:48:58 -0600 (CST)
From: rick@adc.com (Rick Larson)
Subject: oxygen equipment
I'm getting oxygen equipment together for fermentation.
I can get a 20 cubic foot oxygen tank ($65 + $10 fill)
or a 40 cubic foot oxygen tank ($89 + $10 fill) but
I need a regulator.
Do I need a special regulator or can I use a welding
regulator to regulate the amount of oxygen into a
air stone?
Thanks,
rick
- --
Rick Larson rick@adc.com
Minneapolis, MN
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 13 Jan 1996 00:42:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "Kathy Booth (Waverly)" <kbooth@isd.ingham.k12.mi.us>
Subject: fruit beers
I crush my fruit and pastuerize it at 160 degrees F for 20
minutes, cool it t hen add to my secondary ferment. Worked great.
Jim Booth Lansing MI.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 96 09:30:14 EST
From: "William G. Rucker" <ruckewg@naesco.com>
Subject: Hop tea/Fruit beer question
Hello all,
Jack S. has posted recently about making a hop tea and adding after
one week in the fermenter. I took in a tour this past year of the
Shipyard Brewery in Portland, Maine and This is similar to what they
do. I believe they add it to the wort before fermenting. They "stew"
their tea for 6 hours in a pressure cooker type machine and then run
the hot wort through this as a hop back. I hope I am remembering the
process correctly. This seems very similar to what Jack was saying.
Shipyards beers, though good, are not my favorites and some have a
fair hop bite and very good aroma.
On fruit beer:
I had a thought about doing something similar to above with a fruit
beer. Is it possible to stew at a moderate temperature and add that to
your beer after the first few days in the primary? The pectin
shouldn't set and you don't have to worry about straining the spent
fruit out of the fermenter. Any fruit beer afficianados out there care
to comment?
Please send any thoughts or comments to:
brewzer@peanut.mv.com
Thanks,
Bill Rucker
ruckewg@naesco.com - work
brewzer@peanut.mv.com - home
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1935, 01/15/96
*************************************
-------
