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HOMEBREW Digest #1932
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/01/11 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1932 Thu 11 January 1996
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Adding boiling water to mash ("Richard R. Cox")
Primary Fermentation temps (Chico Seay)
Wyeast 2112 (Steve Zabarnick)
Wort Chilling. (Matthew Saunders)
Queer Beer (cmcgee)
mash bed depth/RIMS heater (mmoss)
Corny Keg Threads (rbarnes)
oak/o2-absorbing caps/B-Brite soak/keg dispensing/bottlecaps/mash HSA (Algis R Korzonas)
Carbon filters & Ultra hops (BJFABB)
DMS/candi sugar/undercarbonation/overcarbonation/bacterial spores? (Algis R Korzonas)
gushers (Brian Pickerill)
SKUNKY BATCH FOLLOW UP (Jim Harper)
hop storage and SouthBay HB Supply (Dan Pack)
Goof Re: Cheap Hop Scales (C.D. Pritchard)
Yeast-Starters/Storage (JamesN2405)
cheers (The Wallinger Family)
Bending copper tubing/ Celis White (blacksab)
Polyclar (ShrineBoy)
catalog's (Roel ten Klei)
Belgian Rock Candy (Roel ten Klei)
Chillers - bending Cu tubing (Aidan "Hairy Hibernian" Heerdegen)
Re: Using counterflow chiller ("Stephen E. Hansen")
Columbus Hops (blacksab)
measuring oxygen levels (Neal Parker)
more yeasty stuff ("Tracy Aquilla")
Copyright issues on HBD ("Michael R. Swan")
Stainless steel union needed ("Colgan, Brian P.")
Re: Open Fermentation ("Roger Deschner ")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 09:29:45 -0700 (MST)
From: "Richard R. Cox" <cox@fortnet.org>
Subject: Adding boiling water to mash
I'm preparing to make my first all-grain batch using a
converted Rubbermaid-Gott cooler as a combined mash/lauter
tun. So far, I've read several accounts from people who
compensate for the heating and volume limitations of the
cooler by using boiling water to boost mash temperatures or
achieve mashout. My question is this: won't adding boiling
water directly to the mash have the same affect as boiling
the mash (i.e. leaching of tannins and astringency)? Or does
the mash temperature stabilize quickly enough that this is
not a a problem?
Thanks in advance for your combined wisdom.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 10:28:02 CST
From: cseay@TUblue.pa.utulsa.edu (Chico Seay)
Subject: Primary Fermentation temps
I'm new to both posting messages and brewing; I hope everything
works out!!
As with thousands of others, my wife gave me equipment for Xmas
for brewing, and I jumped in on 12/26/95 with my first batch, a
Nut Brown Ale (after having read the first section of Papazian's
New book). Since I didn't have much to compare the process with,
I went on the hydrometer readings and visuals. After about two
days nothing happened in the carboy, and then I got about 2 inches
of loose foam, which subsided after 2 or 3 more days. OG: 1.030
FG: 1.013. The stuff tasted kinda sweet (probably because it's
sposed to be) on bottling. Bottling date was 1/7/96. New batch
is an IPA started on 1/7/96, and now two days later nothing still,
yet. I pitched both yeasts in about 77 deg F wort. Here's the
big kicker question:
My fermenting "room" was 62 deg F for the first
batch, and it has since dropped to 58-60 deg F. Is this
too cold for primary fermenting??? Did the cold temps
stick my fermenting in the first batch and inhibit yeast
activity in both batches??
Also, I don't know how long in the winter here my
fermenting room will be this cool, but is there a lagering
method I can capitolize on?? I'm pretty sure I can keep
things close to the low sixties through March (I live in
Oklahoma).
Should I bring the IPA wort back to 68 deg temp,
repitch, and keep things more in mid upper sixties??
I'm having a lot of fun, but too much anxiety to relax, and it's
still too early to have a homebrew!!
Chico
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 11:42:57 -0400
From: steve@snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: Wyeast 2112
A couple of months ago I posted a question about using Wyeast 2112 (Cal
Lager, the Anchor Steam yeast) for a true lager (fermenting at about 48F).
The responses were mixed; some thought the yeast would work fine at lager
temps, others thought it would go to sleep or not be as clean as a true
lager yeast. Despite these responses, I decided to give it a try.
I first brewed an all-grain "steam beer", which fermented at 62-64F. Two
weeks later I brewed a 1.070 all-grain bock, which I pitched onto the
sediment of the steam beer. The bock was fermented at 48F for two weeks and
attenuated down to 1.020; its been lagering for the last six weeks now. I
will probably lager this beer for another few weeks, but despite the fairly
short lagering period (for a bock) the beer is clean and malty.
I think this is a good technique for getting adequate yeast for pitching
into high gravity lagers.
Steve
Dayton, OH
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 11:59:27 -0500
From: saunderm@vt.edu (Matthew Saunders)
Subject: Wort Chilling.
This little technique is very inexpensive, works dandy, and is very simple.
I take four 1 litre pop/soda bottles and fill them with water. I keep
these bottles in the freezer. Near the end of my boil, I sanitize the
outside of each frozen bottle and plop them in my wort. I can usually
reduce my wort to pitching temperature in 15-25 minutes depending on how
large my boil was. (I usually have about a 2.5 - 3.5 gallon boil and top
off the remaining with cold water).
This technique is particularly good if the region you are in has a water
shortage.
Cheers!
Matthew
==============================================================
"Burn it, son, burn it. Fire is a great refiner."
J. Matthew Saunders
saunderm@vt.edu
URL http://fbox.vt.edu:10021/S/saunderm/index.html/page_1.html
==============================================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 12:29:11 -0500
From: cmcgee@hom.net (cmcgee)
Subject: Queer Beer
I realize that this a bit odd, but here goes:
I was watching my friend's homebrew supply store for him today. A
gentleman came in, saying he was going to Saudi Arabia, where alcohol is
illegal, and wanted to convert "near beer" to "real beer". (Well, Sir,
you'll need 40 pounds of this dark malt barley...)
No, what I really sold him was sanitizer, corn sugar, ale yeast,
and an airlock. (He was adamant that he start with the near-beer and not
malt extract of any kind.) I figured he could use about 1lb of sugar to a
gallon of near beer, then ferment it, then prime & bottle. (OK, so it
sounds hideous, but he HAD been making alcohol with fruit juice, cane
sugar, baking yeast, & a bucket...)
Anyway, given the limitations above, is there a better way that
doesn't involve actually brewing any beer?
Just a few ounces of wierdness to add to the last 15 mins of your boil!
-C
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 13:15:56 -0500
From: mmoss@PO-Box.McGill.CA
Subject: mash bed depth/RIMS heater
In Bill Owens' book "How to Build a Small Brewery" he suggests the use of a 54
qt. cooler rather than a 74 qt. cooler as the "smaller cooler creates a deeper
mash bed". This recommendation is for 10 gallons. This implies a minimum
depth for the mash bed. Is there an ideal depth for the mash bed? Is there a
maximum and minimum depth? And, if I were to setup for 5 gallons, what would
the ideal size cooler be? (I do not plan to use the Gott but rather the shape
of the Igloo or Coleman).
Also, in the RIMS info, there is a repeated reference to a tube (copper
usually) that the heating element is inserted into. What is the purpose of
the tubular heating element cover? What can't the element be left as is
without the tubing cover as it is in the Bruheat for instance?
Thanks in advance.
Saul
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 11:36:55 pst
From: rbarnes@sdccd.cc.ca.us
Subject: Corny Keg Threads
Does anyone know the size and thread pitch for the gas-in fitting on
a pin-lock Corny keg? I'm trying to adapt the fitting to a standard
air compressor quick disconnect, but at the local Home Depot none of
the brass fittings (pipe, flare, compression) had threads that matched
those on the pin-lock fitting.
The goal is to end up with an air chuck (the kind used to fill tires)
for my CO2 bottle. I know that I can use a spare hose to attach the
air chuck directly to the regulator, but this requires changing the hose
each time I wish to use the air chuck. I would like to disconnect the
gas-in fitting from a keg, attach it to the pin-lock fitting that has
the air chuck attached, so I can pressurize 2L PET bottles (or fill
tires) by installing a valve stem in the cap.
Any better ideas?
TIA- Randy Barnes, San Diego
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 15:11:43 CST
From: korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: oak/o2-absorbing caps/B-Brite soak/keg dispensing/bottlecaps/mash HSA
Sorry this is so old, but I've been out of town and then sick and then
lost my HBD feed and then... I'll try to be as brief as possible.
Stevea writes:
>I have to disagree with the statement that european white oak imparts
>no flavor. French white oak barrels are widely used to hold wine, and
>a premium price, on the order of $500 per barrel is paid for these
>specifically because of the vanilla flavors and tannins they add.
>American white oak is also widely used and prized for a similar flavor
>profile.
How long does the wine sit in the barrels? I've tasted beer made in new
American oak barrels and it is far, far too oaky (at least the first several
batches were... I haven't had the opportunity since). Do you taste any
oak in Pilsner Urquell? How about Traquair House? Yup... oak FERMENTERS.
But remember that they ferment only a week or two at most. Rodenbach Grand
Cru, which is aged for 3 years in oak tuns which are disassembled and scraped
between fillings.
>Wine barrels have their interior charred by open flames before they
>are used.
This is the first I've ever heard of this. My understanding is that only
whiskey barrels were charred. Are you sure you are not confusing the
heating of the barrels with a floor-mounted burner to make them bend
easier (see the Pilsner Urquell segment of Jackson's Beer Hunter series)?
>vanilla note. I don't know anything about the historical processing of
>barrels for IPAs but it is clearly possible that their interiors were
>charred before use.
Absolutely not. Some brewers lined their casks with pitch, but Samuel
Smith's (tm) Tadcaster brewery uses unlined, european oak casks and I've
tasted no oaky character from their beers drawn "from the wood" (e.g.
at Ye Olde Cheshire Cheese in London).
***
PatrickM50 writes:
>Mark Redman says:
><< I use oxygen absorbing caps, which clearly state "DO NOT WASH OR BOIL
>CAPS!"
>Well, I've always been one to follow directions, so I don't. This seems to go
>against
>what I have read, especially since you must turn the bottle upside down to
>activate the absorbing capabilities.>>
>
>My bag o' caps never said to turn the bottles upside down to activate the
>caps. Has anyone else come across this same info? Any cap manufacturers
>online? Are my caps ruined ;-O
I've spoken at length with two engineers responsible for the development
of oxygen absorbing caps. They say that commercial brewers don't sanitize
their caps, but remember that all but three or four in the US use tunnel
pasteurizers, which would sanitize the caps too (after filling). Note that
Chicago Brewing Company uses unsanitized oxygen-absorbing caps and they
have a flash pasteurizer, so the caps are not sanitized and I've never
noticed a sanitation problem with their beers.
On the third hand, these caps are untouched by human hands (they use assertive
Rhesus monkeys to load the bottling line ;^), UNLIKE the caps we buy at the
store. Someone counted or at least weighed those caps and could very well
have touched the linings. I sanitize my caps using Iodophor or Bleach
solution. Finally, you do not have to invert the bottles to activate the
caps. The humidity in the headspace is enough to activate them.
***
Bob writes:
>CF Chiller:
>Why dry it? - Why not get it nice and clean and then fill it with B-brite,
>cap it, and store it full. Iodophor might work, but is more likely to
>lose its sanitizing power with time- I've noticed that when the yellow is
>gone fuzzy stuff will growin it.
Yes, Iodophor might work, but don't soak anything in B-brite. There are
carbonates in B-Brite (and in One-step too) and long soakings will cause
a white film (that's impossible to remove without acid) to form. This
carbonate film won't ruin beer, but if you run acidic wort through it, I'm
sure that you will be increasing the carbonate level of your beer. It's
probably not a problem this late in the process.
***
Brian writes:
>OK, I never heard anything about the color of the lines, that certainly
>would be foklore. OTOH, line length is very important. It's been
>discussed here to death already, but basically the longer the serving line,
>the higher serving pressure you will need.
You have it backwards: the higher the serving pressure, the longer line
you need.
>There is a big difference between the carbonation in the beer and the
>serving pressure. Too much serving pressure will cause problems for
>properly carbonated beer.
You're right that if you overcarbonated the beer, you will have to bleed-off
some of it or it will always gush. However, if you plan your serving
pressure based upon your serving temperature and how much CO2 you want in the
beer, your serving pressure will ensure that your carbonation stays where
you want it. It's fine to use a high pressure at first if you want to
quickly force carbonate and then go to serving pressure (I do it all the
time), but if you work out the pressure from the numerous tables that are
in the archives and then select your beer line diameter and length correctly,
you will not have to turn off your CO2 at all (better not have any leaks).
I don't and I can have a beer sit on-line for six months and each pint is
perfectly carbonated.
***
Michael writes:
>>My bag o' caps never said to turn the bottles upside down to activate the
>>caps. Has anyone else come across this same info?
>Not this info in particular as it regards O2 caps. However, I came across an
>old homebrew book by Beadle (sp?) which indicated that the bottles should be
>turned upside down to wet the cap seals and make sure the priming sugar
>distributed through the beer in the bottle.
Beadle writes comedic not homebrewing books. See my review of his latest
work in the back issues of HBD (search for Beadle). It's a scream.
If you prime with dry sugar, yes, you have to mix the beer, but this is
one of the most primitive ways of priming and an invitation for infection.
Furthermore, if you *could* wet any part of the sealing surface of the cap
by inverting the bottle, then you obviously didn't crimp the cap on.
***
Keith writes:
>Does using a rotating sparge arm (or splashing the sparge water in general)
>introduce unwanted oxygen into the mash or is HSA only a problem after
>the mash?
I believe that it does introduce some O2, but not nearly as much as you
might think. Since this is very hot water and the mash is already hot, most
of the space above the mash is water vapour and not oxygen. You should
keep the mash tun covered to keep the protective layer of steam covering
the mash. HSA is indeed a problem even during mashing.
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@pubs.att.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 15:24:38 -0600
From: BJFABB@ccmail.monsanto.com
Subject: Carbon filters & Ultra hops
Hi All!
I'm interested in purchasing an effective carbon filter to remove chlorine,
et.al. from my tap water. Anyone have good luck with inexpensive units? Would
one of the small cartridges designed to filter an automatic ice maker water
supply work well (assuming that the flow rate is kept low enough)? If there is a
FAQ regarding this topic, I'd appreciate its address. You are welcome to respond
privately; I'll post a summary if there is interest.
Also, has anyone used the 'Ultra' hop variety? Do you like them, and if so,
how have you been using them? Thanks!
Brad Fabbri (bjfabbri@ccmail.monsanto.com)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 16:12:04 CST
From: korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: DMS/candi sugar/undercarbonation/overcarbonation/bacterial spores?
More old subjects... sorry about that...
Jack writes (quoting someone, sorry):
>>temp. Air attemperation is just too slow a cooling process. 2nd, DMS
>>production will be excessive, particularly with the standard North American
>>malts which are of the low-kiln temperature variety (i.e. lager malts).
<snip>
>DMS is another boogyman that the experts love to write about but for us
>mere mortals who enjoy our beer and the compliments we get from
>other mortals who enjoy our beer, I say BAH!
I've tasted Jack's beers and they are tasty and clean, but they do have a
significant DMS component. Now mind you, a small amount DMS in a lager
is a "good thing" as it is a significant part of what we call "malty aroma."
Note that Jack makes primarily lagers and the occasional ale. He has said
to me personally, that he finds little difference in the aroma between the
lager and the ale. I'll bet the DMS may be a part of the similarity. The
level of the DMS was not excessive, but it was a solid part of the aroma.
There is also the possibility that Jack is not very sensitive to DMS. Jack...
compare (using Chicagoland examples) the aroma of Coors and Old Style.
Post or email if you smell a difference or not.
***
ROTH.TER writes:
> In # 1917, Todd asks about candi sugar. Primarily, the sugar is used in high
>gravity ales to add (in the case of dark sugar) some color and (very little)
>taste, but primarily to increase OG without attendant increase in malt taste
>content. Most dubbles and all tripples use sugar to increase alcohol.
> I made a batch of abbey ale, using the sugar, but made the mistake of
>boiling it in the kettle instead of dissolving it in the sparge--the
>crystals are formed on a string which disintegrates in the boil and is a pain
>to strain out. It was probably not a cotton string.
Most Belgian candi sugar comes without the string. Mind you, that white
candi sugar is merely sucrose, so save your money and use table sugar.
Dark candi sugar is caramelized sucrose (table sugar) and comes in various
darknesses. If you could caramelize sugar reproducably, you could probably
make your own. Incidentaly, that should be "dubbel" and "tripel" and they
use it to boost the alcohol (as you said in the previous sentence) *without*
the additional malt taste *AND* body.
***
Steve writes:
> My theory is that due to the low amount of priming sugar (1/4
>cup), the oxygen-absorbing caps may have absorbed more CO2 than this beer
>gave off; and that the reason it was not obvious before is, well, I really
>don't know... Anyway, I've advanced a theory, and I would appreciate any
>comments to help me with the problem, specifically, what caused this, and
>what can be done about it?
The oxygen-absorbing caps cannot absorb CO2. I see two sources of problem:
1) 1/4 cup is very low and if the beer is served at 40F, I could see it
having virtually no carbonation and 2) did you boil the caps to sanitize?
If you did, not only did you ruin their absorbing capabilities, but also
the plastic in these caps gets distorted when you boil them and they can
then have trouble getting a good seal.
***
Nick writes:
>Here is a quick question to the collective knowledge of HBD. I have been a
>homebrewer now for almost two years and have had many people tell me to add
>anything from 1/2 cup to 1 cup corn sugar. I understand that the answer will
>vary, but can anyone out there give me something scientific? I currently use
>3/4 cup corn sugar and have been successful most of the time, but I have had a
>few beers that overcarbonate in the bottles and are almost useless.
There are scientific things in past HBDs like varying the amount of priming
based upon the temperature of the beer being primed, but for the most part,
if you prime with 1/2 cup of corn sugar for english ales, 7/8 cup for
Bavarian Weizens and Belgian ales and 3/4 cup for all the rest, you will
be in good shape. If you had some overcarbonated beers using 3/4 cup or less
of corn sugar, they were:
1) bottled too early (before fermentation was done),
2) infected,
3) the primings were not mixed well, or
4) some combination of the above.
***
Charlie writes:
>I can't imagine many bacteria surviving, but the spores of many (especially
>"Pediococcus") would. The point to early pitching is simply that
Is that right? Do bacteria form spores?
Al.
Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
korz@pubs.att.com
------------------------------
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril@bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: gushers
>Recently in one HBD (sorry - can't remember which), someone mentioned that
>gushers were a result of a bacterial infection. Having had one brew where
>nearly every bottle did indeed gush, I decided to pay particular attention
>to sanitization with a honey-wheat beer. Now the problem is that my new
>beer also gushes, but only when warm. When chilled the beer does not show
>any signs of gushing. Any thoughts? BTW, both brews taste fine.
Gushers aren't necessarily a sanitation problem. How does it TASTE? Beer
will hold a lot more CO2 when it's cold, so it doesn't foam nearly as much
when poured cold. Since you used the typical amount of corn sugar to
prime, and since you bottled only 3-4 days later, I'd guess that your beer
wasn't completely finished fermenting when you bottled it. I'd say just
drink it cold. If you want to drink it warmer, try chilling the beer,
opening the cap part way to let off the C02 (but not taking it all the way
off) and then re-capping it. (with the same cap) Then let it warm up and
it should be about right.
Good luck,
- --Brian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 16:18:45 -0800
From: harperj@olympus.net (Jim Harper)
Subject: SKUNKY BATCH FOLLOW UP
On Nov. 13, I reported an ale fermentation that quit working and had a
strong skunky aroma. I received several plausable solutions to saving the
batch but before I could implement any, the ferment started again.
Original gravity was 1.062 on Sept. 29. The S.G. on Nov.13 was 1.028 with
the strong skunky factor. It began working again and Nov. 24 the skunk
started to abate and the S.G. was 1.022. On 12-24 the skunky smell was only
a trace with an S.G. of 1.020. The temperature during the entire ferment ws
a consistant 65 degees F.
Today, I bottled at 1.018 and the skunky had turned into a strong appealing
hop flavor. The original recipe involved 2 oz. of 12% alpha Golden hops
for 50 minutes and 1 oz tettnang hops 2.6% alpha for 5 minutes.
I am leaning toward the conclusion I had under estimated the strength of
the Golden Hops and, perhaps, what seemed skunky to me was the hop and an
aberrated Edme Ale yeast. It was still working, slightly, when I bottled,
but with all the recent testimony on the "Crabtree Effect" I was afraid of
"pyruvate poisoning."
Comments appreciated.
Jim Harper
Sequim, WA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 17:20:15 -0800
From: danpack@grape-ape.che.caltech.edu (Dan Pack)
Subject: hop storage and SouthBay HB Supply
Hello everyone,
This is my first post in a very long time. So
long in fact I'd wager no one remembers me. First
I want to say a big THANK YOU to my new mail order
supplier and then I have a question for the collective.
I have ordered my last few batches of ingredients from
South Bay Homebrew Supply in Torrance, CA (a *suburb*
of L.A.). First, let me say the standard disclaimers
apply; I have no interest in SBHBS other than hoping
they prosper and can continue to supply my brewing
needs for many years to come. With that said, for those
of you who aren't familiar with SBHBS, this place is GREAT!
Example: Last Thur. I intended to order ingredients for
my next batch but I got busy and couldn't get to the
phone in time to meet the UPS deadline for Thur. Of course,
that meant the package wouldn't be shipped til Mon in
order to limit the amount of time the yeast is out. Not
a big problem but the sooner I brew the sooner I drink,
right? Well, it just so happened that someone from the
store was coming up to Pasadena on Fri anyway (about 1 hr
away) and so they brought my package and left it with my
apt. manager while I was at work!! I realize they probably
can't do exactly that for most of you but it gives you an
idea of their commitment to making their customers happy.
BTW, their prices are very reasonable. In fact, they beat
all of the other California. suppliers I'm aware of. And
their catalog, while not flashy, is comprehensive. They
seem to carry most of the hard to find ingredients I see
people asking about on hbd constantly. For example, they
sell bitter orange peel, three kinds of Belgian candi sugar,
torrefied wheat, hop oils and late hop essence, Lyle's
treacle, sweet gale, etc.... Thanks for the bandwidth. I
just really felt like I owe these guys one. So the
information is:
South Bay Homebrew Supply
2535 W. 237 St., Unit 108
Torrance, CA 90505
order line: (800) 608-BREW
Tel: (310) 517-1841
74557.1102@compuserve.com
SouthBayHB@aol.com
For those of you still with me I have a quick question.
'I have had some hops (Perle pellets) in my freezer for
some time now. They're in oxygen barrier bags, never
been opened, and haven't thawed in 6 mos. So, how long
will hops last stored like this? AMHO? (are my hops
oxidized? B^)
TIA,
Dan Pack
Pasadena, CA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 96 20:35 EST
From: cdp@chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard)
Subject: Goof Re: Cheap Hop Scales
I apologize folks, I posted American Science and Surplus' fax number rather
than their voice # which is is 708-982-0870 'til 1/20/96. Area code is 847
thereafter. Mailing address is 3605 Howard St., Skokie, IL 60076.
With Egg On Face,
c.d.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 20:37:47 -0500
From: JamesN2405@aol.com
Subject: Yeast-Starters/Storage
Hello to All,
I just started receiving HBD last week, definitely a learning experience.
Most of my brews are extract with specialty grains, along with occasional
partial mash batch.
A member of my homebrew club reportedly splits his liquid yeast packs up to
4 ways. He then prepares a starter for each batch of brew. It sounded like a
good way
to bring the price of liquid yeast down to the dry yeast range. The Scottish
Export
Ale I just bottled utilized half of the "smacked pack", with the other half
in the fridge
(My test tube babies). They have been in the fridge for approximately 1
month.
Any comments on how long they should last? (BTW, I used Wyeast #1084, #1728
was not in stock). I used a 1/2 gallon starter, Noonan's book on Scotch Ale
suggested
high pitching rates. The major activity did not start until 14 1/2 hours
after pitching,
I had to switch from a fermentation lock to a blow off tube. Wow.
Another question, in HBD 1930, A. J. deLange mentioned an Aerating Cane, can
you expound on this? I've never heard this term before.
Thanks,
Jim Navecky
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 19:29:30 -0600
From: The Wallinger Family <wawa@datasync.com>
Subject: cheers
I am interested in generating a collection of words and phrases for =
drinking and toasting. For example, cheers, compi, na zdravi, prosit, =
down the hatch, etc. If there is such a collection already, please point =
me in the right direction. If there is not, please submit your =
suggestions to me privately, and I will post the compilation. Include =
the language with any foreign words or phrases.
Wade Wallinger
brewing contraband on the Mississippi Gulf Coast
new email address: wawa@datasync.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 21:52:56 -0600
From: blacksab@siu.edu
Subject: Bending copper tubing/ Celis White
There have been a number of posts recently suggesting methods for bending
copper tubing, some of which IMHO are unnecessarily complicated. I'm a
contractor by trade and use this stuff fairly often and no tools are
necessary unless you are trying to make a fairly tight radiused bend, and
then, you should use only the expensive type of tube bender that John Braue
suggested. It works somewhat like a conduit bender. For such a sharp bend,
the cheap spring-tube type benders DO NOT WORK, you can't remove them
without first straightening the tubing. Any bend where these type of benders
will work don't really need it--only attempting a sharp bend will cause the
tubing to collapse.
The simplest way to coil this type of tubing is to coil it around a
cylindrical object, like a CO2 tank.
BTW, it should be noted that there is a huge difference between copper
tubing and rigid copper pipe. The type we're talking about here is tubing,
and is sold coiled by the foot, or in 50-ft coils. It is often refered to as
refrigeration tubing. Rigid copper pipe CANNOT be coiled without going to
way too much trouble, and besides, the smallest I've ever seen it is 1/2-in I.D.
Finally, if you've never used this stuff before, it would probably be a good
idea to get some extra and find out for yourself how tight a radis you can
bend before trying it out on your nearly finished wort-chiller--it's cheap
insurance.
Hope this helps, and if any of you live near Carbondale, IL., I've got a
3/8-in bender that I would be glad to let you use.
Harlan
P.S. On a completely unrelated note, I had two bottles of Celis White while
I was in Chicago over the holidays and it was awful. No flavor, very little
cloudiness--BLAND! Does anyone know whether Miller has totally #*&?@!-up one
of my favorite bottled beers or did I just get two from a bad batch? Can't
miller be killed or something?
H.
======================================================================
Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can
<blacksab@siu.edu> To justify God's ways to man.
--A.E. Houseman
======================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 Jan 1996 21:52:04 -0500
From: ShrineBoy@aol.com
Subject: Polyclar
Dear HBD,
Does anyone have experience with the use of Polyclar AT for the reduction of
chill haze? Specifically, how do you prepare it, when do you use it, and
what is the dose?
thanks,
Richard Hunter
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 23:45:37 +0100 GMT
From: roel@ichthus.lifenet.nl (Roel ten Klei)
Subject: catalog's
Hallo All!
Are there any brewer catalogs with brewers-supplies in it out there?
If so would you be so kind to sent me one, so I can see what things
you use.
My snail-mail adress is:
Roel ten Klei,
't-voorhuis 36
3902 CC Veenendaal
The Netherlands.
==> Groeten, Roel ten Klei, Veenendaal, The Netherlands
==> internet-adress: roel@ichthus.lifenet.nl
==> \|/
==> keep the whole @ @ world singing
==> \------------oOO-(_)-OOo----------/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 23:45:37 +0100 GMT
From: roel@ichthus.lifenet.nl (Roel ten Klei)
Subject: Belgian Rock Candy
Hallo All!
A few day's ago i read an article from DAVID ELM, about Belgian Rock
CAndy.
I do some business with a Belgian sugar company named "Eurosuc", and I
thought they export rock candy to the US and/or CA.
If it is for some interest to any of you, I will ask, to wich company
they export, so you can probably buy direct from that company.
please let me know, who wants to know, E-mail me directly please.
Wactch to two "H" in ichthus.
The tagline means that I aM A barbershop-singer, so I brew my own beer
to smoothen my throught.
==> Groeten, Roel ten Klei, Veenendaal, The Netherlands
==> internet-adress: roel@ichthus.lifenet.nl
==> \|/
==> keep the whole @ @ world singing
==> \------------oOO-(_)-OOo----------/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 19:56:58 EDT
From: Aidan "Hairy Hibernian" Heerdegen <aidan@rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Chillers - bending Cu tubing
Full-Name: Aidan "Hairy Hibernian" Heerdegen
Charlie S. said:
| Louis P asked,
|
| LP>To get to the point, how can one bend the
| LP>tubing without kinking it?
|
| Fill it with sand.
Or salt.
The advantage of the latter being that it is easier to wash out
should you have a 'sticky problem' coz it is water soluble.
I coiled almost all of my chiller round one of my plastic
fermenters, only the last bits to get the outflow and inflow
right required a support (I had one of those spring things you
slip over the pipe, didn't work all that well).
Advice for potential immersion chiller makers, make the outflow
and inflow long enough that you can hang them out of your kettle
and point them downwards. I didn't do this and I have all sorts
of problems, with the outhose especially, getting very hot and
folding over, blocking the outflow and putting pressure on the
hoseclamps.
Cheers
Aidan
- --
e-mail: aidan@rschp2.anu.edu.au,
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 01:02:27 -0800
From: "Stephen E. Hansen" <hansen@netserver.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Using counterflow chiller
In a message on Tue, 9 Jan 1996 00:01:01 -0400, Doug Steeves writes:
> For Christmas, I asked for the materials required to make an immersion
> wort chiller, but my Mom in her exuberance got me a counter-flow chiller.
> (So what did your Mom get you for Christmas :-) ) Because I will now be
> syphoning my wort, I have a couple of questions about procedure..
>
> 1. I had been just tossing broken up hop plugs into the wort for the boil.
> Should I be containing the hops somehow to prevent them from clogging up the
> chiller?
I boil in a 33qt canning pot. When the boil is done, I stir to create
a whirlpool which leaves the trub and hops in a cone shaped mound in the
center. From there I siphon into a 6 gallon plastic bucket with a tap
mounted on the side near the bottom. The 200+ degrees F is then carried
to the garage where it can sit on top of the washing machine. The chiller
inlet connects to the bucket's tap and the outlet feeds into the carboy.
I just open the tap and let if flow. The chiller sits on a stool just
below the bottom of the bucket and above the to of the carboy.
> 2. Can my plastic racking cane and tubing withstand the hot wort
> temperatures or do I need to fashion something out of metal? The chiller
> was equipped with hoses for the water intake and outtake, but nothing for
> feeding the wort into it.
I have a very strange looking plastic racking cane from trying this once.
You need to make one out of something more heat resistant than plastic.
Go to the hardware store and get about five feet of 3/8 inch copper tubing
and use about three feet to make your own copper racking cane. Unless you
have or buy the funky spring sort of tool used to bend this kind of tubing,
you will need something of the right diameter to bent the copper into a
cane. To make sure that you keep the unwanted crud in the pot, get a
copper scrub, drop it into a mesh bag, and stick the straight end of the
copper racking cane into the middle. The bag I use has a draw string at
the open end which just slips over the bend in the cane, holding the whole
mess together. That part was dumb luck on my part.
Use the remaining length of tubing to make an aerating wand. This is
connected via plastic tubing to the outlet of the chiller and placed into
the carboy. Drill four 1/16th inch holes about three inches from the top
of the tube. The cooled wort rushing by the holes will suck in air and
aerate the wort. Cut a couple of v-grooves at the bottom so the end of
the wand won't sit flat on the bottom of the carboy. This works like a
charm.
Stephen Hansen
- --
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Stephen Hansen, homebrewer | The church is near, but the road is icy.
Stanford University | The bar is far away, but I will walk carefully.
hansen@Hops.Stanford.EDU | -- Russian Proverb
http://www.stanford.edu/~hansen
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 05:27:55 -0600
From: blacksab@siu.edu
Subject: Columbus Hops
Craig Rode asked about the availability of Columbus Hops. Give Mark Kellums
a call at Just Hops KELLUMS1@aol.com. He's got 'em, or at least he did last
month when I was there (Thanks Mark!). I can't say enough good things about
Mark and his hops--no connection, just a VERY satisfied customer.
Harlan
======================================================================
Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can
<blacksab@siu.edu> To justify God's ways to man.
--A.E. Houseman
======================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 07:50:28 EST
From: NParker@Lockheed.on.ca (Neal Parker)
Subject: measuring oxygen levels
I have been following the recent tests done by HBDers on aerating
the wort by various methods with interest. To actually quantify
the effectiveness of your aeration is a big step forward.
The question is: how do you measure the % dissolved oxygen in the wort?
I assume it's with some sort of chem lab equipment I won't have but I'm
curious.
Neal Parker
Lockheed Martin Canada
Kanata, Ontario
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 08:36:55 CST
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: more yeasty stuff
In Digest #1930:
ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange) says:
[snip]
>I took an old Wyeast 2007 package, samcked it and immediately (i.e. before any
>multiplication could take place) counted cells. I estimate that the package
>contained 4.6E9 cells. [snip] I had time to smack a fresh pack of the same
>strain and let it swell over night. It yielded an estimated 2.1E9 cells [snip].
>Interesting that no multiplication appears to take place. I suppose that this
>must be because the environment in the package is anaerobic. On the other hand
>we could have a statistical variation situation here.
1) This experiment should definitely be replicated (re. statistics) before
one can make any valid conclusions. The most likely explanation for the
observed result is that the original number of cells in each package was
different.
2) It takes nearly 24 hours for yeast (S. cerevisiae) to replicate their DNA
and bud-off a daughter cell from a static state. Considering the fact that
lager yeasts (S. uvarum) are polyploid, Wyeast 2007 will likely take much
longer than 24 hours to produce progeny (probably closer to 48 hours).
3) Saccharomycetes will bud as long as they have the necessary nutrients
available, whether the culture is anaerobic or aerobic.
>The remaining question is "Where does the glyoxylate cycle take place?" Plants
>and bacteria have organelles called "glyoxysomes" but no diagram of a yeast
>cell I have ever seen shows these.
Microbodies (glyoxysomes, peroxisomes, etc.) are membrane-bound compartments
which are literally bags of enzymes. Animals don't do glyoxylate (lack the
enzymes) and prokaryotes don't do membrane-bound organelles. While some
bacteria (eg. E. coli) do utilize glyoxylate, they lack glyoxysomes. I think
glyoxysomes are unique to plants. Enzymes participating in the glyoxylate
cycle are localized to the peroxisomes in yeast (essentially the same as
glyoxysomes).
>Brewing yeast only exhibit Crabtree effect (reversion to fermentation in
>the presence of O2) when glucose levels are high (as far as I know).
"High" is a relative term; glucose in excess of about 0.4% w/v will induce
the Crabtree effect in Saccharomycetes. The Crabtree effect is a regulatory
mechanism whereby aerobically-growing yeasts repress the respiratory pathway
in favor of fermentation if fermentable sugars are available.
>In the presence of other fermentable sugars growth takes place when O2 is
>available.
Essentially all fermentable sugars induce the Crabtree effect in
Saccharomycetes (galactose is one exception), including fructose, maltose,
and sucrose, but glucose exhibits the strongest effect. Growth occurs as
long as nutrients and a carbon source are available, however, yeast grows
even faster if O2 is available (reverse-Pasteur effect).
Tracy in Vermont
aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 96 8:49:41 GMT (Original EST)
From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan@fdic.gov>
Subject: Copyright issues on HBD
I finally got Web access and have been gorging on all of the beer
related stuff that's out there. I have only been subscribed to the Homebrew
Digest for the last nine months and was not aware of the history of this great
resource. After reading Norman Pyle's excellent article in _Brewing
Techniques_ on the HBD, I better appreciate the contributions all of you have
made to the cause of homebrewing. (Thanks, Rob.)
My question is: Has the issue of copyright protection for individual
postings ever been resolved. Norm mentioned this having been raised as a
concern in the past but I don't know whether anything had ever been decided.
The reason I mention this is I also receive an email list for my dog breed
(basenjis) and they way they deal with the issue is by placing the following
legend on each post:
"All mail sent through BASENJI-L is Copyright 1996 by its original author."
Although I am a lawyer, I am not a copyright lawyer. Still, is this
something we could add to the Homebrew Digest? Would it be valid? Just a
thought.
Mike Swan
Dallas, Texas
mswan@fdic.gov
GoldSwan@cyberramp.net
Standard disclaimers apply
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Jan 96 20:57:05 EST
From: "Colgan, Brian P." <bcolgan@sungard.com>
Subject: Stainless steel union needed
bpc 09jan:
I need a half-inch ss union, and it doesn't need to be cheap :>). I need it
for Sankey keg conversion ala Bill Owen's 'How to Build a Small Brewery'.
I bought a galvanized union, but I dimly recall from this summer that
galvanized is no good for a wort kettle. I can get a black iron union, but
rusting would be a concern.
So, any place in the Greater Phila. area? I've been advised to call a
dairy plumbing supply shop or a BOP nearby that just opened, but any better
ideas with a phone number would be greatly appreciated.
tx
Brian Colgan "Every one has to believe in something."
bcolgan@sungard.com "I believe I'll have another homebrew."
h:(610) 527-8896 / w: (215) 627-3800
Radnor, PA.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 1996 08:22:11 CST
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Open Fermentation
I really think you're overengineering, with all that recirculation stuff,
especially at homebrewer volumes. I'd be afraid of the difficulty of
adequately cleaning all the extra pumps, hoses, etc. Sounds like lots of
new and inviting places for infection to hide out. What you should worry
about is keeping anything from falling in, such as insects, falling
plaster, curious children, champagne/lambic corks, empty beer bottles
that miss the wastebasket when you throw them, etc.
Many British and German brewers use open fermentation. One near you is
the Very British GRANITE BREWPUB in the northern suburbs of Toronto. No
cover at all. Excellent ales; worth a visit.
The famous ZUM UERIGE of Dusseldorf, Germany, maker of the prototypical
Altbier, also uses totally open fermentation. Among other things, they
rely on very high hop rates (50 IBU) to control infection. No cover at
all here either. The vessel is in its own room, but the room has no
special seals and the door is opened routinely.
These open systems have no cover at any point in the primary fermentation
phase. A good, high, pitching rate is, of course, even more necessary, to
get fermentation going in a hurry. Racking to secondary is the point at
which fermentation is "closed".
Roger Deschner University of Illinois at Chicago rogerd@uic.edu
Aliases: u52983@uicvm.uic.edu U52983@UICVM.BITNET R.Deschner@uic.edu
=============== "Civilization was CAUSED by beer." =====================
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1932, 01/11/96
*************************************
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