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HOMEBREW Digest #1940
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/01/20 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1940 Sat 20 January 1996
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Here's to you! (Robert Morgan)
Slotted Copper Manifold in Lauter Tun ("Lee R. Posz")
DMS taste? (Lance Skidmore)
Dried Malt Extract (Al Paglieri)
Re: Mashing In Techniques (tgaskell)
Open Ferm (Jack Schmidling)
Diacetyl?? ("James Hojel")
Sierra Nevada clone recipe (Mark Redman)
Misc: paint stirrers/foil insulation/Malt Mill/ventilation/propane ("Dave Bradley::IC742::6-2556")
Cleaning Fermentation Lock ("Herb B. Tuten")
Splitting up mash/boil into two-day event (Michael Arau)
Re: Keg modification (George Miller - The CyberMarketing Group)
Buckets/Plastic Hydrometers/"Burpness"/Density Gradients Debunked!/Boiling (KennyEddy)
Beer Art (IHomeBrew)
Arabian Brews/Plastic Cylindroconicals/U.K. Trip Q. ("Edmund C. Hack")
Re: How to get Diacetyl (Spencer W Thomas)
Re: Labels & Milk (Mitch Hogg)
Bottle Carbonation (Kelly E Jones)
RE: Imperial Stout Question (Randy M. Davis)
Wyeast #1275 <- slow fermentation? (Judith Morgan or Jerzy Niesytto)
Read what I meanr, not what I typed (John W. Braue, III)
Ringwood (Kit Anderson)
Basmati rice Cream ale (Jeff Smith)
Ringwood (Kit Anderson)
stuck lager ferment response (W_GLADDEN)
Japan and brewing (Douglas Thomas)
Hydrometer readings at high altitude ("MSDOB02.OGBORRW")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:50:09 -0500
From: Robert Morgan <rmorgan@CAM.ORG>
Subject: Here's to you!
Thanks to everyone who doesn't realize that they helped me brew a great
beer! I'm enjoying a pint of John Bull Executive Bitter, an all-extract
kit made up of 3 kg of extract and dry yeast. I boiled the extract,
hydrated the yeast, oxygenated the cooled wort, pitched at the right
temperature, and maintained a constant fermentation temperature in a
carboy with a blowoff. After fermentation had subsided three days
later, I added some Williamette pellets to get some hop nose. I bottled
one third in some old Grolsh bottles and kegged the balance in a Rotokeg
I've been using for over five years. Ten days later, today, I'm enjoying
a bitter better than I can buy.
Cheers!
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 20:31:54 -0800
From: "Lee R. Posz" <lposz@cisco.com>
Subject: Slotted Copper Manifold in Lauter Tun
I've finally decided to replace my old two bucket lauter tun
system and have opted for a slotted 1/2" diameter copper manifold
in a rectangular shaped 48 quart picnic cooler. This way I can mash
and lauter in the same vessel and add enough boiling water to
achieve mash out temperatures.
I've already built the unit but had a question regarding
soldering the copper joints. I used silver (lead free) solder
that complies with all applicable safe drinking water laws.
Is it okay to use the solder to secure the joints or should
I have tried harder to find compression fittings for the
90 degree elbow joints, etc.?
Thanks.
Lee R. Posz
Houston, TX
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 22:06:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Lance Skidmore <lskidmor@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
Subject: DMS taste?
While brewing this weekend with a few friends, a discussion started
concerning the merits of covering a boil. I recalled many posts to HBD
warning of the risks of producing DMS by doing such a dastardly deed. To
which my fellow brewers responded "what does DMS taste like and how do I
know if I've got it?". And to be honest, I really didn't have a clue.
I thought I've been paying attention here, but maybe I missed that part.
So, at the risk of sounding like a rank newbie, what does it taste like
and is it really all that big a deal?
Lance Skidmore,
Port Orchard, WA
____________________________________________________________
WASHINGTON...where the rain and good beer never stop flowing!
- -------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:19:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Al Paglieri <bq359@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Dried Malt Extract
In my quest to get a good deal on a bulk purchase of DME I came across a
company that has "baking grade" DME. The tech support could not
satisfactorily explain this for me.
Is this sutible for my homebrew and what is the difference between
brewing grade and baking grade?
Thanks in advance!
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 08:26:22 EST
From: tgaskell@e3sa.elab.syr.ge.com
Subject: Re: Mashing In Techniques
In HBD #1938, craig.rode@sdrc.com wrote:
> I continue to try to increase my extract efficiency to 30.
<snip>
> My technique is to put the dry grist (pale ale and adjuncts) in
> the mash tun, and then dump the strike water @ 170F into it all
> at once, and then mix like he**. The mash ends up at about 152F,
> and I then place it in the oven preheated at 150F, monitior it for
> 90 min, mix every 15 min....etc.
There are a couple of things you might try to boost extract efficiency:
1. Try a rest at 40C. I use the now famous George Fix 40-60-70C mash
schedule for pale ale malt (and will use a 50-60-70C schedule when I
get fridge space so I can brew a lager). It was found that a rest at
40C will boost extraction while the time at 60 and 70 will control
fermentability and body (long rest at 60C, more fermentable, short rest
at 60C = more body). Check out George Fix's 40-60-70 mash schedule
articles and follow-ups like Rob Reed's.
Sources:
Spencer's Beer Page http://www-personal.umich.edu/~spencer/beer/
From Spencer's Beer Page:
- George's data is under "Frequently Asked Questions" then "Mashing
Systems", then "couple of notes".
- Look for "Reports on Brewing Experiments" for Rob Reed's results.
2. Try a mash out. Rob Reed's experimental results also show that a
mash out step at 165 to 170F will boost extraction rates, but not as
much as a 105F (40C) rest. If you are shooting to get the most from your
grist, try both.
Tom Gaskell Hog Heaven Homebrew Picobrewery Clayville, NY, USA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 07:47 CST
From: arf@mcs.com (Jack Schmidling)
Subject: Open Ferm
>From: jfrane@teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
>I think it's a matter of semantics, and of fermenter geometry.
If it's in an open fermenter, even with a lid on it, it's
open.....A cylindro-conical fermenter (most common thing to see in a
micro or brewpub), it's clearly closed -- that is, completely
contained. Same with a carboy, whether the hole is up or down;
the fermenter is clearly contained.
How bout a carboy without an airlock?
>Open fermentation has to do with the shape (wide and wide
open, and with access.
How bout those ubiquitous 7 gal plastic jobs that fit your geometry
definition but are designed to poke an airlock in the hole in the lid?
>In an open fermenter, even one with a
loose-fitting lid, you can skim, you can dip, whatever, and
well, it's different.
That seems to be the accepted definition but it does confuse the
uninitiated and it begs for a better term.
>What I don't fully understand is why it's taking Jack 10 days
to reach a stage that isn't even completely clear. In 10 days,
I'm drinking my beer.
I will bet that beer is not lagered at 40 degs F. You wouldn't
want to drink mine in ten days.
>From: Scottie617@aol.com
>All of this talk about open and almost open and closed fermentation has me
confused. Could somebody please explain to me the advantages of open
fermentation versus blowoff?
Glad you asked. This is another one of those areas where my opinion is
less than meek and equivocal. Blowoff is probably the silliest procedure
that has ever been developed for making beer. I am hard pressed to think
of even a single redeeming feature. The advantages of "open" fermentation
are as myriad as those for blowoff are lacking.
Try simplicity and ease of use as the basic cover all.
> Why would you take the chance of contamination?
The anal retentive types will tell you the risk comes every time you open it
to peek or skim the foam. Neither of which you need to do but that is
another issue.
My favorite advantage is that if you ferment is a kettle, all you do to
"sterilize" it is boil a quart of water in it with the lid on for a few minutes.
>I thought that blowoff was a step ahead, not behind.
It is a giant leap backwards.
Carboys make great secondary fermenters for beer or wine but they
are the wrong tool for primary and using them with blowoff technique
is like trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear.
> How do you repitch from an open fermentation?
Not sure what you mean but there is half an inch of stuff on the bottom
you can do anything you want to with.
> Cant you do the same with a blowoff?
Sure and all the rest of the mess that goes with it.
Aside from that, I have no strong feelings one way or the other.
js
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 96 13:56:27 UT
From: "James Hojel" <JTroy@msn.com>
Subject: Diacetyl??
On the subject of diacetyl: Many of the real ales that I've tasted from the
UK seem to have a major or minor diacetyl profile. I describe these ales as
very fruity with a sweet diacetyl undertone. Over the years I've become a big
fan of diacetyl. I've also noticed that many of the American (micros) ales do
not have a noticeable diacetyl profile. I speculate that this may be
attributed to the common use of Wyeast 1056/Chico (very clean an neutral)
and/or another neutral yeast. In addition, many people on the HBD reference
to how diacetyl is an "acquired taste." I realize that it is not appropriate
for many styles of beer, but shouldn't it be fine in most UK style beers
(milds, bitters, porters, stouts, etc.)? Maybe I'm asking for a more specific
style guide. In what kinds of ales is diacetyl accepted and in which is it
not; and why? What is the collectives opinion on diacetyl; do you like it?
JTH
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:02:30 -0500
From: Mark Redman <brewman@vivid.net>
Subject: Sierra Nevada clone recipe
Greetings fellow brewmen (and women):
I would like to brew an all grain (five gallon) clone of my favorite beer,
Sierra Nevada Pale Ale. What little I do know of it's make up includes
the yeast (Chico) and the aroma hop (Cascade). If anybody can fill in the
following blanks for me it would be greatly appreciated, either by post
or email.
1) Grain: Domestic 2 row pale? Crystal? Dark malts?
2) Original gravity, final gravity.
3) Hops: Bittering hops. IBU, type, additions. I'm pretty sure it's dry hopped.
I have fresh Cascade and Centennial, so I'll probably use Centennial
as a bittering hop (unless I'm told otherwise).
4) Water: pH, Hardness, Alkalinity, Calcium, Sodium, Chloride? I have very
soft water here in Atlanta so I will be able to adjust accordingly.
Thanks a bunch. By the way, I think we all deserve a pat on the back for
maintaining such a great mailing list. It is always low in flames, noise,
and unrelated threads (although the yeast/O2/Crabtree thread is getting a
little old, but it is very informative) GO PITTSBURGH! See ya.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:33:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dave Bradley::IC742::6-2556" <BRADLEY_DAVID_A@Lilly.com>
Subject: Misc: paint stirrers/foil insulation/Malt Mill/ventilation/propane
Some questions as well as some info, for anyone interested:
1. On paint stirrers & suitability for stirring the mash: I know this
has been discussed before (sorry) but I cannot currently search
the digests. There are painted ones I suspect should be avoided.
What about the "chrome-plated" ones? I'm looking to stir
intermittently during step mashing Anyone? Should I avoid this?
2. Anyone know what the thermal stability of polyurethane coatings is?
3. Insulating the mash/lauter tun: some HBDers have mentioned the use of
the shiny foil (Reflectix(TM) around here) with air pockets for this
purpose. The inner linings being polyethylene, I questioned the
max temp exposure of this stuff. A brochure at the hardware store
by the manufacturer states 180F as the max temp for CONTACT exposure.
4. Motorizing my Malt Mill (TM-JS) with a 1/3hp 1725rpm motor hooked to
a 8:1 pulley set and powered by a variable "rheostat" works great!
Using my drill was one of my worst brewing experiences ever.
5. I've constructed a burner ventilation hood fairly cheaply (<$100) that
moves some serious air (0-2000CFM) using an old furnace blower.
Talk about needing make-up intake: otherwise the windows might implode!
If there's serious interest in plans, I'll post something. Email *me*.
6. FYI, local hardware stores sell propane detectors for ca $40. I'm using
one (and a CO monitor) in my basement brewery...cheap "insurance".
From: BRADLEY DAVID A (MCVAX0::RC65036)
To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"homebrew@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com")
cc: BRADLEY DAVID A (MCVAX0::RC65036)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:35:42 EDT
From: "Herb B. Tuten" <HERB@zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us>
Subject: Cleaning Fermentation Lock
Greetings All,
Has anyone discovered a good way to clean yuck out of a
fermentation lock? A recent batch foamed all the way into
the neck of the thing. It stopped short of the water, so I didn't
need to disturb the process to take it out, clean it, etc. Particles
were left in the open part of the chamber between the bucket
and the fermentation-lock-fill-water. OK, no big deal, the
fermentation went well. After racking to secondary, clean-up
time came. "You try soaking it out, you try scrubbing it out, and
still you have Ring-Around-the-Air-Lock". Any ideas for nuclear
soaking solutions, or self-guided cleaning wires would be
appreciated. I've tried many things and I'd hate to throw this
friend away; we've been through alot together.
Thanks,
Herb (herb@zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 06:57:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Arau <marau@linknet.kitsap.lib.wa.us>
Subject: Splitting up mash/boil into two-day event
JM> Since I have started all-grain brewing I can no longer produce
JM> homebrew as often as I would like due to the length of my brew days.
JM> Can anyone think of a reason why I couldn't split my brewing day in
JM> two and mash one evening and boil the next? What (if any) are the
JM> risks of leaving pre-boiled wort standing overnight? Would this
JM> affect the quality of the final brew? Has anyone else used or tried
JM> this method? I would be collecting the mash run-off in a 6.8 gal
JM> carboy and storing it until the next evening when I would transfer
JM> it to my 15 gal brew kettle.
Get a hold of the last Issue of Zymurgy. (Special grain issue) There is
an article in there about saving time and it discusses letting the mash go
overnight. It covers other methods of cutting time as well.
I haven't tried any of these as yet. So far my method is to get up really
early on a weekend and start. That way I'm done before much of the
regular day has gone by.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:05:35 -0600
From: George Miller - The CyberMarketing Group <gmiller@cybermarket.com>
Subject: Re: Keg modification
Leo -
I'm in the process of putting together a 3 vessel RIMS based on kegs. I've
learned a few things along the way:
* Don't use a cutting torch! It doesn't cut well through the SS, and it
brutalizes the metal.
* Find a welder (or brother-in-law) that has a Plasma Cutter. I'm not sure
how these things work, but they will cut the SS like a hot knife through
butter! The cut is smooth and clean, MUCH better than using a Sawzall with
bimetal blades. We cut the tops off 3 kegs in a total of 1 minute.
* Use a high grade drill bit to drill holes in the kegs for
fittings/nipples. The hole is much better than trying to use the plasma
cutter or torch. Go slow with the drill though, if/when the drill bites it
will throw you for a ride!
* Get SS nipples to attach to the kegs. Find a really good welder because
SS welding is very tricky (especially the thin walls of the kegs). We used
a Miller wire welder with SS wire and 100% argon gas. It's a thing of beauty.
Now if I could just find a good surplus pump!
George
________________________________________________
The CyberMarketing Group
Full Service Internet Advertising and Consulting
gmiller@cybermarket.com http://www.cybermarket.com/
________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:07:19 -0500
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Subject: Buckets/Plastic Hydrometers/"Burpness"/Density Gradients Debunked!/Boiling
Randy Barnes writes:
> Also, the container is somewhat square in shape, the plastic is slightly
> softer (but thicker) than food-grade pickle-bucket plastic, and
> originally held solvent but has since been used to store gasoline. Before
> I make big plans to use the container to heat mash water, does anyone know
> how I could remove all traces of gasoline from the plastic? I suspect that
> I might get lots of "don't do it!" replies
DON'T DO IT!!
Clean new plastic buckets of "all" sizes are available at restaraunt supply
stores and many other places.
Henry Dondi asks:
> My question is; Does anyone know if a LEXAN or plastic hydrometer is made
> for people like me?
My wife dropped my hydrometer a while back; it wasn't her fault, and since
she's usually the one buggine *me* to get my a** brewing, I doubt she did it
on purpose
;-{)}
Anyhow, this is one I have wondered about as well. But another feature which
would be great is to have a hydrometer and thermometer in one unit, so one
could do accurate correction without the hassle of two separate
menasurements. I use the SG scale; frankly, if they bagged the potential
alcohol, Balling, and Plato scales in favor of good ol' degrees F and C it'd
be OK with me. Perhaps there would even be room for a correction table on
the unit...
And By The Way, Henry, welcome to Homebrewing!! Your comments about first
hoping to "equal" Budmilloors, then realizing that that would be pointless,
is a recurring theme among new brewers. Our club's Brewer of the Year almost
didn't start brewing because "what's the point if you can't make it cheaper
than Bud Lite?". Kinda scary.
Has anyone seen Jeff Frane's recent articles in Brew Your Own magazine? Nice
job, Jeff, but "Burpness"? Really! Do keep us posted, and BTW I was voted
Grand Master Belchroid of Rochester Minnesota in 1977 (by an impartial panel
of drunks if I remember right) so if you need any research done...
Paul Fisher writes:
> After a batch has been in a secondary for about
> a week, take a flashlight and aim it directly at the carboy at various
> levels. There is definitely a density gradient present, as indicated
> by the color change and the amount of light reflected back from the
> different levels in the carboy.
I see this all the time and have always assumed it's settling yeast & other
debris. Density of the suspended matter increases with depth. Let it sit
long enough and it'll be quite homogeneous.
Jerry Minasi:
> My question is: All the books I've read say "Even though the
> manufacturer says 'no boiling necessary,' that you should Boil the
> extracts for at least for fifteen minutes."
THere are many effects from boiling, not the least of which is sanitation.
Additionally, though, one would have to include hop oil utilization (oil &
water don't mix, remember?), "break" production (which is the coagulation of
proteins in the wort into a precipitate; this heavily relies on the
mechanical "roll" of the boil), reduction (evaporation) of certain volatiles,
and carmelization (darkening of sugars due to exposure to heat). If you're
using hopped extract and not adding any more hops, you could get by with
shorter boil times, but the one-hour Rule O' Thumb is a pretty good guide.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:07:50 -0500
From: IHomeBrew@aol.com
Subject: Beer Art
All,
Does anyone know where I can get (i.e. download) good brew-related images? I
am looking for icons, gifs, bmps, etc. to spice up a piece of brew software
that I am writing. When it comes to computer art, I try to leave that to
people who are relativley artistic.
TIA, Clark
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 07:03:10 -0800 (PST)
From: "Edmund C. Hack" <echack@crl.com>
Subject: Arabian Brews/Plastic Cylindroconicals/U.K. Trip Q.
Regarding Arabian Penninuslar brewing:
There is an article on this in the latest Brew Your Own. It fits in with
tales I've heard from others in Houston. One friend that spent a year or
two in Kuwait in the 70s indicated that is was not unheard of for a few
kegs of pure grain alcohol to arrive in the bilges of supertankers and
for "essence of gin/scotch/bourbon" to be manufactured in various chem labs.
At the time he was there, it was nearly impossible to get a magazine into
the country (too many pictures of women with limbs exposed and mentions
of Israel), but unlabeled videotapes sailed through, with a little
greasing of the wheels.
A while back, there was mention of a company with reasonably priced
plastic cylindroconical vessels. Unfortunately, I've lost the HBD with
that message and would like to find out who made them and if anyone has
tried using one for brewing.
Finally, my wife and I are considering a trip to the U.K. in June. I'd
like to visit a berewery or two and quaff a pint or two or three ... a
day ... while there. However, we will have our 8 year old daughter with
us. Are kids allowed in pubs and on brewery trips, or am I SOL? Would we be
grossly violating social standards by bringing her into a pub? If we do
decide on the trip, I understand that there is a CAMRA guide to "real
beer" pubs. Any US sources for it? TIA.
Edmund Hack \ "But maybe he's only a little crazy -
echack@crl.com \ like painters - or composers - or some of those
Houston, TX \ men in Washington." - _Miracle on 34th St._, 1947
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:14:40 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: How to get Diacetyl
>>>>> "James" == James Caldwell <jimcald@ix.netcom.com> writes:
James> Curt Speaker asked how to get Diacetyl: Ferment Ringwood
James> yeast at about 70 degrees. Ringwood can be cultured from
James> Geary's Pale Ale (or other Geary's product).
The Yeast Culture Kit Company (YCKCo@aol.com,
http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/yckco.html) has this strain, if you
prefer not to culture from bottle, or you can't get Geary's products.
(It's not listed in the online catalog, but he *does* have it.)
yada: I have no connection ... except that Dan is a friend.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:07:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Mitch Hogg <bu182@freenet.toronto.on.ca>
Subject: Re: Labels & Milk
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about how to best stick
labels on bottles. And my apologies to those to whom my question was
redundant; apparently this query has been posed to the list before. At any
rate, the responses I received were split pretty evenly between those
advocating the milk method and those who swear by the glue stick.
Completely foreign to everyone who responded was the concept of mixing up
skim milk powder; apparently plain ol' milk from the fridge (that's the
appliance, not the activity) works just as well. This can be easily
explained, however. As you may recall, I got the milk powder idea from a
buddy who puts up posters for his band and therefore must mix up the milk
a bucket at a time, as opposed to the relatively small amount required by
homebrewers. The advantage to the powder in his situation is that it is
dirt cheap (the disadvantage for us being that one must buy the stuff in
serious bulk; the smallest bag I found was about two feet square, and
about three inches deep). I don't know about you, but with all this beer
going on, I haven't got room to store enough milk powder to last me the
rest of my life. At any rate, thanks to all who responded, and (this
being the real reason anyone ever posts these thank-you messages), don't
send me any more suggestions. Your work here is done.
I would, however, appreciate some clarification on a new issue. (That's
right; another day, another esoteric beer question.) In HBD 1937, someone
(no, I didn't write it down; you know who you are) wrote about a
six-gallon carboy being superior to a five because the six gives some
airspace for the krausen and saves blowover during fermentation. Now, I
use a plastic bucket for primary fermentation, so the krausen bit doesn't
affect me, but I was always under the impression that a glass carboy
should be topped up as high as possible, as too much headspace is a bad
thing. Now that I think about it, of couse, this seems silly, as there's
plenty of air in my primary, but I guess I always assumed that the
krausen and its accompanying layer of CO2 kept the air and its dangers
away from my beer. So my question is this: can I leave a gallon or so of
headspace in my six-gallon carboy? Will this affect my beer? I ask
because I've often racked from my primary and wound up with somewhere
between 19 and 23 litres of beer. Fearing headspace-induced infection,
I've always opted for a full 19 litre carboy rather than a not-quite-full
23 litre. This, of course, meant the painful experince of pouring some
potentially good beer down the drain. Did I do the right thing? Thanks in
advance,
Mitch.
P.S. On re-reading this, I realise I've rather sloppily switched between
Imperial and metric measurements (which is, after all, the only true
bilingualism all Canadians may claim). Sorry. For 19 litres, read 5
gallons. For 23 litres, read 6 gallons. And don't even get me started
with US vs. Imperial gallons.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:29:56 GMT
From: Kelly E Jones <kejones@ptdcs2.intel.com>
Subject: Bottle Carbonation
Again, Kudos to the HBD experimenters, this time Steve Alexander for
his work on bottle carbonation levels. A couple quick comments:
1) Steve's work seems to indicate that low-fill bottles carbonate
faster than high-fill. I can't come up with an explanation for this
based upon the physics, and so I suspect Steve may be right when he
suggests that more oxygen in the underfill bottles may be creating a
healthier environment for the yeast.
2) As for the observation that the air-locked bottle completed in 6
days, I would be hesitant to conclude this. We're used to considering
a carboy as still fermenting when we see a bubble every few minutes.
Consider that a carboy contains 20l of fermenting wort, a bottle
only 300ml, so we would expect a bubbling rate from the bottle
which is less than 1/60th that of a carboy. At this rate, the
bottle's airlock bubbling could easily go unobserved, or washed out by
the effect of varying atmospheric pressure. So I am guessing that
your airlocked bottle also took over 20 days to fully finish
fermenting, and did so at such a slow rate that airlock bubbling was
not observable after 6 days.
3) Just to throw a monkey wrench into the works: Unfortunately, just
about every data point gathered in this experiment was subjective,
from the loudness of a 'pffft' to the perceived carbonation level of a
beer. This makes much of the data at least suspect. This is not at
all a slam on Steve, who seems to have been very careful with his
technique and record keeping. Most of us don't have oodles of time or
tens of thousands of dollars of analytical equipment to do these
experiments. While I have no reason to disbelieve Steve's
observations, it would be hasty to take these results as the final
truth, whether they support our theorys or not.
Kelly
Portland, OR
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:08:19 MST
From: Randy M. Davis <rmdavis@cal.mobil.com>
Subject: RE: Imperial Stout Question
In #1938 Mike asks some questions about a higher gravity brew. Since I recently
brewed an Imperial Stout OG 1.098 and used the same yeast #1084 I can respond
to his questions.
o What is the alcohol tolerance of ale yeast (Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale, in this
case)? Has this yeast reached its limit?
I very much doubt that it has reached it's limit. My 1.099 brew erupted during
the primary ferment producing about 12 inches of foam which reached the top of
my 10 gallon plastic primary. My final gravity was 1.026 which I thought was
very good. The activity in the secondary was negligible.
o Should I just let it clear for a few more days, prime, and bottle (in
other words, RDWHAHB)?
I would suggest that you let it sit for a bit. No need to rush a beer that will
require a fairly long aging period. I had mine in the secondary for 3 weeks.
o Should I add some different (more attenuative?) yeast in the secondary? At
bottling time? I also have another batch of ale fermenting (with Wyeast
1098 British Ale); I could pitch some of the sludge from that batch into
the stout.
You didn't mention what the gravity is at now. If it is in the 20's then no
worry. I would not consider repitching unless it is obviously too high.
My ferment was done with very fresh slurry from a previous batch. I know that
a high pitching rate is even more important in a high gravity wort.
When the 1084 managed to produce about 9% alcohol I thought it might be done
for but I primed with 115 g. corn sugar and filled 49 350ml bottles and after
a month it has a moderate carbonation. I am not worried any more and I am sure
it will be superb a year from now.
- --
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Randy M. Davis rmdavis@cal.mobil.com Calgary Canada (403)260-4184 |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:40:34 -0600
From: jm.jn@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Judith Morgan or Jerzy Niesytto)
Subject: Wyeast #1275 <- slow fermentation?
Howdy,
trying to keep my India Pale Ale British I ignored friendly advice
at my local hb shop and instead of Wyeast 1056 (American Ale)
I used Wyeast 1275 (Thames Valley) - (for the first time).
Recipe was all-grain IPA from Dave Miller's "Complete Handbook".
OG = 1.043
Fermentation temp: 68F - 75F.
No starter.
Fermentation started after ~20hrs , slowly continued to build up ,
peaked after about 3 days then slowly subsided to about 1 bubble per 30sec.
After 5 days SG = 1.012 and I decided to rack it.
Krausen layer on top of beer was light brown/tan with "rice" looking
white spots and was very thin (never reached the lid).
Yeast layer on the bottom was thin too and had little of usu. "muddy"
appearence.
Beer (at a racking time) tasted fine - no obvious off-flavours.
PROBLEM:
since transfering to secondary 5 days ago fermentation still continues
at about same pace (1 bubble every 30 sec).
This is very different from my normal experience: vary rapid primary
fermentation (3-4 days) and almost no activity in the secondary.
QUESTION:
Does anybody observed a similar behaviour in 1275 ?
Are any of the above a sign of contamination?
Thanks for any input,
Jerzy Niesytto (trying to relax).
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:32:57
From: braue@ratsnest.win.net (John W. Braue, III)
Subject: Read what I meanr, not what I typed
korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas) writes:
>John writes in his Red Ale recipe:
>>115 g dry ale yeast
>
>That must be a typo. 5 to 10 grams is typical.
Oops, that *was* a speck on the screen, not a decimal point.
Unfortunately, I am notorious for leaving out decimal points,
digits, and even entire words and phrases that utterly change the
meaning of what I'm trying to convey. By a not-too-remarkable
coincidence, about half an hour before reading this (and typing the
response), I had to distribute a PROFS note across the eastern U.S.
and Canada, explaining that, when I wrote that I restarted an MVS
batch job last night, I really restarted it at 22:08, *not* 2:08.
So, Al is quite right; I really meant to type "11.5g", not "115g"
(and yes, I checked that the decimal point really exists and is in
the the right place this time). Apologies to egans@cadvision.com
for the typo, and I hope I didn't cause you too much inconvenience
by directing you to pitch 4 oz. of dry yeast.
- --
John W. Braue, III braue@ratsnest.win.net
I prefer both my beer and my coffee to be dark and bitter; that way,
they fit in so well with the rest of my life.
I've decided that I must be the Messiah; people expect me to work
miracles, and when I don't, I get crucified.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:14:24 -0500
From: Kit Anderson <kit@maine.com>
Subject: Ringwood
James Caldwell wrote:
>Ferment Ringwood yeast at about 70 degrees. Ringwood can be
>cultured from Geary's Pale Ale (or other Geary's product).
Geary's is cold filtered through DME. There is no yeast. Ringwood can be
had from Yeast Labs.
Kit Anderson
Bath, Maine
<kit@maine.com>
The Maine Brew Page
http://www.maine.com/brew
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 12:27:13 -0600
From: snsi@win.bright.net (Jeff Smith)
Subject: Basmati rice Cream ale
I brewed the following with some left over hops and yeast, X-mas extract and
the kernel of an idea from Dave Methvin. Dave wondered whether Singhi was
brewed with basmati rice.
Malts/Sugars:
4.00 lb. Light Malt Extract Syrup (Northwestern)
2.50 lb. 2-row (Briess)
1.50 lb. Basmati Rice
1.00 lb. Vienna (Briess)
Hops:
0.25oz. Cluster 7.1% 60 min
0.75oz. Fuggles 3.2% 60 min
0.38oz. Hallertau 3.1% 5 min
0.30oz. Hallertau 3.1% 2 min
0.50oz. Saaz 2.9% Dry one week
Yeast:
1 pack Edme
Notes:
started 12/31/95 spg 1.054
bottled 01/14/96 spg 1.014
I crushed the rice in my PhilMill and cooked it in 6 qt. of water for one
hour and let the temp drop to 130F. Then I added the grain and held the
temp at 122F for 30 minutes. I added 2 qt. boiling water and raised the
temp to 152F and held it there for 1 hour. I sparged with 2 gallons of
water (with no stuck or slow run off), added the extract and boiled.
I racked the it after a week in the carboy, threw in some hops and put it on
my porch to sit. After a day in the cold (between 32F and 10F) I noticed
that the beer was cloudy. Of coarse then it dawned on that I should have
added some Irish moss.
Since bottling it has cleared, it hasn't hit the frige yet but I assuming
its chill haze.
My questions are as follows:
1. Is there to much rice in this mash for protein rest to work? Or
2. Is there just to much water in the mash?
3. I almost used papian in at bottling. Does anyone have any advise on
proper usage?
4. I'm thinking of converting this receipt from Basmati rice cream ale to
Basmati rice Chipolte peppered cream ale. Anybody have a guess at how hot
is hot enough? Right now I'm thinking about a TSP. of ground chipolte and
five super hot cayenne from my garden?
5. If two trains leave Barnes, WI while your expecting -80F wind chill and a
foot and a half of snow, how many home brews need to be consumed before you
stop worrying about how you'll get to work if your car really does start?
(Trick question. 1. Who cares if you make it to work anyway? 2. There are no
train tracks in Barnes.)
TIA
Jeff Smith
'71 HD Sprint 350SX (Considering conversion to a grain mill motor.)
snsi@win.bright.net
Barnes, WI
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:14:24 -0500
From: Kit Anderson <kit@maine.com>
Subject: Ringwood
James Caldwell wrote:
>Ferment Ringwood yeast at about 70 degrees. Ringwood can be
>cultured from Geary's Pale Ale (or other Geary's product).
Geary's is cold filtered through DME. There is no yeast. Ringwood can be
had from Yeast Labs.
Kit Anderson
Bath, Maine
<kit@maine.com>
The Maine Brew Page
http://www.maine.com/brew
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:09:37 -0500
From: W_GLADDEN@Mail.Co.Chester.PA.US
Subject: stuck lager ferment response
In HBD 1938 Al Freignang ? writes about a stuck lager
fermentation. Private e-mails bounced. Here goes.
*Most important ... don't give up on it. I eventually bailed on
a batch, dry hopped to counteract the sweetness and bottled. I
ended up with swelling bottle caps (they really bulged!) on their
way to becoming grenades. Had to open the caps numerous times
which led to much hissing, frothing etc. The dog loved it!
- If possible, get the temperature around 50 - 55 degrees
instead of 45 - 50 for the ferment. After the ferment is
complete go ahead and *lager* it at colder temps.
If that alone doesn't get things going ... shake the carboy to
resuspend the yeast & partially aerate. See what that does.
It sounds like you have lots of yeast in the carboy and plenty of
fermentables so I wouldn't bother with another starter or
repitching yet.
If that doesn't work ..... Try adding some yeast energizer. I
boiled some water, let it cool, dissolved some yeast energizer in
it and added it to the carboy/secondary fermenter. Bought it at
a homebrew supply store and followed the instructions they gave
me on its use.
- then go back and shake yer carboy for the purposes of mixing in
the energizer, resuspending the yeast and aerating.
Some breweries have to rouse the yeast in their lagers as a
matter of course to allow fermentation to continue/complete.
That fact, and the fact your fermentation is not complete would
lead me to conclude "aeration" from shaking/agitating the carboy
will not ruin your beer. Don't worry ... have a homebrew.
*Keep taking hydrometer readings to determine if fermentation is
occuring. You would need the patience of a saint and the free
time of a prison inmate see some lagers fermenting.*
If you've tried all the above for about a month and can't get
fermentation consider gradually increasing the temperature.
Personally, I would get nervous approaching the 60 degree mark
and definately NOT exceed 60 (assuming a lager is still the
goal).
If all that doesn't work, I'd consider repitching or the heck
with the temp and go for a steam beer (tm).
Good luck. -- Bill Gladden
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:45:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd@uchastings.edu>
Subject: Japan and brewing
I have a friend in Japan who says that almost any beer you get there is
2nd rate at best, as well as being week. Home brewing is almost
non-existant, seeing legally you can only produce a beverage of less than
1% alcohol. My question is, What about Sake? I have heard there are a
great number of home Sake brewers, and they produce a drink with a much
higher percentage alcohol than 1%. Is this because sake is fermented
with yeast and bacteria, or are they just breaking the law and making it
anyway?
Also, has anyone heard anything about the 1 or 2 microbreweries in
Japan? Where they are located and if they are any good?
Any information is welcome.
Doug Thomas
Thomasd@uchastings.edu
------------------------------
Date: 18 Jan 1996 14:05:14 GMT
From: "MSDOB02.OGBORRW" <OGBORRW@texaco.com>
Subject: Hydrometer readings at high altitude
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
THIS MAIL MESSAGE IS FROM THE INTERNET AND MAY HAVE BEEN READ, COPIED,
OR MODIFIED BY USERS OTHER THAN INTENDED RECIPIENTS.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
I have a "simple" physics question. (Where's Bill Nye the Science Guy
when I need him?). Noooo, that's not the question ... this is it:
Do I need to apply an adjustment factor to hydrometer readings (the glass
floating type) for altitude?
I live near Denver at an altitude of approx. 5,280 Feet, 3 1/2 inches, +
or - 40 feet or so. I know that comparing my own O.G. to F.G. would not
make a difference at any atltitude since both readings are relative to
each other, but I'm wondering if an adjustment should be made to my O.G.
readings when comparing them to recipes of those who are near sea level.
I would imagine that the hydrometer would float lower at a higher
altitude since the air inside the bulb would most likely be heavier than
the air outside resulting in a lower specific gravity reading. I don't
know how significant a change in altitude/air pressure makes on such
readings for hydrometers calibrated for sea level.
Roy Ogborn
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1940, 01/20/96
*************************************
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