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HOMEBREW Digest #1927
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/01/04 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1927 Thu 04 January 1996
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Glycerol/Yeast Storage (A. J. deLange)
1st Wort Hopping / Outdoor Ventilation of burner (Bob McCowan)
question re: Wyeast 1028 (GKING)
New Brewers questions (gravels)
Using Water Analysis / Batc ("John Hale")
Chemistry to the Rescue! (Alan Richter)
sour cherries for recipe ("Lee A. Kirkpatrick" )
Naperville/Yeasty stuff (Dan McConnell)
Sand Wedge from the Mash? (Brad Anesi)
Glycerol (John W. Braue, III)
Re: 1st wort hopping (Jeff Frane)
Floating Cornelius keg liquid line dip tube (Steve Zabarnick)
Leaking keg (GRMarkel)
Re: Dark Mysteries; Hunter Airstat ("Roger Deschner ")
Hop Bitterness and Time (J. Todd Hoopes)
Spare Hunter Airstat ("MICHAEL L. TEED")
Belgian Candi Sugar (John Wilkinson)
Re: 1st Wort Hopping (Bill Rust)
Bunch O' Stuff (KennyEddy)
WYEAST Lag Times (Rob Reed)
1st Wort Hopping (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Sagebrush powder ("Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM")
The FIX mashing schedules or what's up with the malt? (Barry Browne)
Irish moss and will it work for wine? (Douglas Thomas)
Stoudt's yeast for Belgian double and tripel (HOUCK KEITH A)
Kitchen Aid Grain Mill / Maerzen (Denis Barsalo)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:32:02 -0500
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Glycerol/Yeast Storage
There was a question about the toxicity of glycerol:
Its a simple alcohol CH2(OH)CH(OH)CH2(OH) which is found at levels of up to
1.95 grams/litre in German beers and up to 3.4g/l in Canadian beers. Fair
amounts of it are formed as a natural metabolic product during yeast growth
and the cells excrete this into the wort. The Germans tweaked the process
during WWI to increase the yield thus turning their beer producing industry
into a source of glycerine for explosives. Thus it is not toxic. I wouldn't
drink a bottle of it but a few grams in a 5 gallon batch (19l) would not
raise the level appreciably above that which occurs naturally.
But perhaps all this is moot. There has been discussion in rcb on long term
storage of yeasts under distilled water. Many of you may have seen this but
the basis is a paper (McGinnis,M.R., A.A. Padhye and L. Ajello, "Storage of
Stock Cultures of Filamentous Fungi, Yeasts and Some Aerobic Actinomycetes
in Sterile Distilled Water", Applied Microbiology, Aug 1974 pp 218-222
(VBol 28, No.2))in which the results of experiments of duration up to 4
years were conducted with a variety of fungi including S. cerevesiae. While
the sample sizes reported were small (1 in each test), S. cerevesiae did
survive up to 48 months. The cultures were prepared by simply scraping
yeast from a slant, swirling in a tube of sterile distilled water and
storing the tubes at room temperature on a lab shelf. Most of the yeast die
but enough remain viable to restart the culture. This method is apparantly
widely used in third world breweries where fancy equipment is not
available.
I first heard about this last June and immediately made up some cultures.
They were still viable as of December. I haven't brewed with one of these
yet but if things turn out so that the tyranny of slants in the
refrigerator can be ended I, for one, will be most pleased.
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:15:17 -0500
From: Bob McCowan <bob.mccowan@cfrp.varian.com>
Subject: 1st Wort Hopping / Outdoor Ventilation of burner
A couple of questions on the 1st wort hopping:
Are these hops added and the kettle filled completely befor the boil is
started? - Is there a rest time befor starting the boil?
If added early, do the 1st wort hops add their full bittering potential to
the wort? If so, 1st wort hopping should reduce your total hop amount?
As far as hoods and ventilation goes, don't forget that if you set up
outside ventilation you need to supply fresh air as well. This may seem
trivial but it's important. Example - we had a wet basement problem last
fall and set up a window fan in a basement window to help provide air flow
to dry things out. We opened the garage door to provide fresh air. At
bedtime, however, I closed the garage door but forgot to turn off the fan.
The air flow then came through the lowest flow impedance source - the
chimney cleanout, which was left open by mistake. When the oil burner came
on at 2:00 AM smoke was drawn from the chimney into the basement, setting
off the smoke alarm. Took us a while to figure out just what had happened.
Moral: if you're going to provide a high-volume ventilation, provide a
high-volume fresh-air source.
Bob
Bob McCowan
bob.mccowan@cfrp.varian.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 10:31:32 -0500 (EST)
From: GKING <GKING@ARSERRC.Gov>
Subject: question re: Wyeast 1028
Dear HBD Collective,
I recently brewed a light-bodied bitter, using Wyeast 1028 London
yeast for the first time. The resulting ale has a very yeasty flavor.
While I like the flavor, it is on the strong side. In fact, the yeast
flavor dominates the total flavor profile. I have some theories about
why this happened:
1) Fermentation temperature (70-75 F) was too high?
2) The yeast flavor would be less noticeable in a "bigger" beer?
(this batch: OG = 1.047, FG = 1.007)
3) Bad combination of fermentables? (5.5# malt extract, 1# honey,
1/4 cup molasses)
4) Wyeast 1028 always produces yeasty-tasting ales?
I would prefer for the next batch to have a less yeasty flavor, so that
the hops will dominate. Any suggestions on how this can be accomplished
will be appreciated (feel free to confirm or shoot down my theories).
TIA,
Greg King
gking@arserrc.gov
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 10:36:26 EST
From: gravels@TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Subject: New Brewers questions
Hi All,
I'm not an expert brewer but I think I've learned quite a
lot reading this digest and have experienced a lot through
numerous extract/specialty grain batches, enough to answer a few
newbie questions and give the heavies a break.
John asks:
>I brewed my first batch of beer last Saturday,
Congratulations!
>an all-malt amber from a kit. I have some questions Hope you can
>help.
>1. When boiling, is it necessary to cover the boil?? I have 4
>books and only 1 of the book mentions covering the boil.
There have been several suggestions regarding covering the
boil, and I think the most agreed upon answer is: don't cover the
pot if you have vigorous boil, however, if the boil isn't very
vigorous (especially if boiling on the stove) then you should
leave it covered for the bulk of the boil, uncovering it for the
last 15 minutes. You get the best hop utilization and hot break
when you achieve a good vigorous boil. It is more detrimental to
the wort if you don't achieve this than it is to worry about the
possibility of nasties (technical term) falling back into the
pot. The last 15 minutes uncovered should take care of any
unwanted nasties boiling away.
>2. When transferring to the fermenter, should you use a
>strainer? I used a strainer and trapped about a cup of mud-like
>matter, maybe the hops??
Using a strainer is not necessarily a requirement, although
I always do, if you are using a prehopped extract kit. However,
it is a good idea to strain out any whole or pellet hops along
with the hot break material (which is probably the mud like
substance that you saw, along with some hop residuals) when
transferring to the primary fermenter. If you are going to
strain the wort you need to make sure that the temperature is 80F
or below before straining. If you strain while it is hot you can
cause HSA (Hot Side Aeration) in your beer. This doesn't mean
that the beer is ruined it may just have an off flavor.
Sometimes, it is not very easy for a newbie to cool the wort
while it is still in the brew pot, (you need a wort chiller, a
must, in my opinion, an ice bath works too) so, if it is still
hot, you can carefully transfer the wort to the fermenter either
by racking or slowly pouring without splashing. You shouldn't
strain at this point. In my opinion your beer won't be affected
by the trub left in the bottom of the fermenter. You can always
rack from the primary fermenter to a secondary fermenter (read
glass carboy) and leave all of the junk (technical term) behind.
>3. I pitched the yeast and after 4-5 hours I noticed occasional
>air bubbles in the air lock. During the next 36 hours there was
>a constant stream of air bubbles in the air lock, but after that
>it has subsided to almost nothing. Could it be done?? Should I
>do anything, or just wait a bit??
Your fermentation is probably done. If you have a
hydrometer check the Specific Gravity, it should be in the
1.007-1.013 range for a simple kit. In that case it is probably
done. If you don't have a hydrometer, taste it. Is it sweet or
does it taste semidry like you expected? If it is sweet, you
should probably let it sit for a few more days. Make sure that
the room is warm, around 65 degrees F should do. It is always
easy to let it sit a while longer to make sure that it has
stopped fermenting.
The most important thing to remember is DON'T WORRY! You
can make some pretty good beer with the basic techniques. This
forum is a great way to learn, sometimes it gets rather
technical, and some enjoy that, but it doesn't have to be. You
will learn what works best for you as you brew and read this
digest and your beer will be better for it.
Good luck, and Hoppy brewing!
Steve Gravel Newport, Rhode Island
gravels@TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
"Homebrew, it's not just a hobby it's an adventure!"
\\\^///
\0 0/
- -------------------------ooOo--(_)--oOoo----------------------------
U
------------------------------
Date: 3 Jan 1996 09:32:26 -0500
From: "John Hale" <john.hale@qm.sprintcorp.com>
Subject: Using Water Analysis / Batc
I'm in the process of evaluating the results of my first all-grain brewing
session and I have a couple of questions:
1. I recently received a water analysis report from my city that uses mg/L as
the units of measure rather than PPM. Is there a standard conversion factor
to help me make use of this info?
2. I'm using a 10 gal Gott cooler with a Phil's Phalse Bottom for my
mash/lauter tun. Is there a problem with adding all the sparge water at once?
I was careful not to disturb the grain bed during pouring and the sparge
seemed to go OK. As long as the output flow is kept to a trickle, is there a
problem with keeping the grain in contact with the sparge water for a longer
period of time?
Thanks to all for a great forum!
John Hale
john.hale@qm.sprintcorp.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 07:16:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Alan Richter <arichter@haven.ios.com>
Subject: Chemistry to the Rescue!
Even though I've been a Chemist for quite some time, the things you can
do with a little chemistry still amaze me. This was very true recently
and here's the story...
I brewed a batch of Christmas Spiced Ale. As part of the recipe, I added
2 cups of maple syrup at the end of the boil. After having added the
syrup, I decided to taste it. METALIC!!! Apparantly the syrup had been
sitting in the can long enough to leach some of the metal. Of course, at
that point all I could do is pray that the metalic taste didn't show up
in the finished Ale. Well, sometimes praying isn't enough! The Ale had
the worst metalic taste I had ever encountered. Talk about Is My Beer
Ruined!
Here's where the chemistry comes in. There are coumpounds, called
sequesterants, whose function is to grab onto and render harmless various
metal ions. One, known as calcium disodium EDTA is approved by the FDA
for use in malt beverages (something about anti-gushing). This
particular sequesterant is good at grabbing onto iron in solution, so I
thought it might be worth a try. Especially because I have access to
FOOD GRADE (very important!) material. I added 20 ppm to my batch (20
ppm = 20 mg/Kg of beer), waited a bit, then tasted. What an unbelievable
difference! The metalic taste, which had been bad enough that I
considered dumping the batch, was gone. The batch was rescued!!
So, the moral of the story is 'better beer through chemistry'.
By the way, Ca Na2 EDTA is approved for malt beverages upto a maximum of
25 ppm. If you try this at home, you MUST use food grade material such
as Versene CA from Dow. Otherwise you are contaminating your batch with
things nastier than iron. I can't tell how to get some, except to
suggest finding a friend in the food or beverage business or perhaps
asking Dow for a sample. If your interested in the FDA reg., I believe
its 21 CFR 172.30.
Alan F. Richter
arichter@haven.ios.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 11:35 EST
From: "Lee A. Kirkpatrick" <WPSSLAK%WMMVS.BITNET@VTBIT.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: sour cherries for recipe
Apologies if this has been discussed recently, but I haven't
been able to keep up with the list the last couple of months.
I want to make Papazian's Cherry Fever Stout, which calls
for sour and/or choke cherries. Turns out these things are
a bear to find, at least in mid-winter. I've been to all my
local supermarkets, checked on special ordering possibilities,
surfed the web for fruit vendors, etc., and haven't been able
to locate any. Does anyone know where I can obtain (e.g., by
mail order) either fresh or (more likely) frozen cherries of
one or the other type?
The closest thing I've found in the store is CANNED "tart"
cherries. I bought a can and brought them home to see what they
were like (then threw them into a fruit salad so as not to
waste). Like most canned fruits and vegetables, they seemed
water-logged and lacking, well, freshness. This turned me off
to the idea of using them in my beer, but then it occurred to me
that for beer-making purposes maybe they would work okay anyway,
especially if all the water/juice were used rather than drained.
Does anybody have any experience and/or advice about this? If
the canned ones would work well, they would certainly be the
easiest and least expensive option. On the other hand, if they
will make a second-rate cherry stout, I'd rather redouble my
efforts to get the real thing and do it right.
I'd appreciate any responses posted to the list or by private
e-mail. Thanks much, and Happy New Year to everyone.
- --Lee Kirkpatrick
WPSSLAK@WMMVS.CC.WM.EDU
P.S. I'd also be interested in hearing from anyone else who has
made this beer or a similar one and has any other suggestions
or advice to share about it.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:39:01 -0500
From: danmcc@umich.edu (Dan McConnell)
Subject: Naperville/Yeasty stuff
Steve asks about Chicago water
> I recently moved to the Chicago Suburbs (Naperville). I've been
>told that I don't have to worry about water treatment. Where I live
>receives city water from Lake Michigan.
Since you live in Naperville, I would suggest that you stop by the Taylor
Brewing Co. The brewer is (I assume still) Ed Bronson and he should be
able to answer your questions.
=-=-=-=-=
From: phust@unlinfo.unl.edu (patricia hust) Jim Hust wrote regarding his yeast:
>It had a date of 12/20/95 on it and my
>local homebrew supply retailer said that since it was that fresh there
>would be no need to make a starter for greater volume.
Jim, your yeast is fine, its your retailer that has a problem.......always
make a starter.
=-=-=-=-=
For those that wrote (and those that didn't) regarding the availability of
the Grizzly Peak yeast strain. No, it is not available. Other versions of
Ringwood are. I have been contracted to evaluate and archive it for the
brewer. I specifically agreed NOT to distribute this particular strain.
Sorry.
DanMcC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 08:42:37 -0800
From: BANESI@novell.com (Brad Anesi)
Subject: Sand Wedge from the Mash?
On Sat, 30 Dec 1995, jtf@carol.net (J. Thomas Foelber) wrote...
Subject: Left-handed Sand Wedge
> ... With this short notice I came up with a solution that worked great.
>With a little bit of cleaning a junior left-handed sand wedge from my
>son's golf bag made a perfect stirring tool. These run about $5 to $7 at
>the used sporting goods store. An extra long handle with a nice grip!
>What more could I ask?
> I plan to continue to use the wedge unless someone knows of a good
>reason not to. (My son says, "Okay" as long as I get him a new one.)
Hi Tom-
Here's something to look into before continuing: Many modern-day
clubheads are glued on, using a hot water soluble glue. Older clubs do
not use this approach, so you may be okay. Your son's new wedge will
probably have a glued-on cast alloy head.
Good luck,
Brad
Mahwah NJ
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 11:25:51
From: braue@ratsnest.win.net (John W. Braue, III)
Subject: Glycerol
>roberts@Rt66.com (Bird) writes:
>>>>>> "CHOLLIAN-USER" == CHOLLIAN-USER <IPS@chollian.dacom.co.kr> writes:
>
>
> CHOLLIAN-USER> amount, but I can't beleive that the book "The
> CHOLLIAN-USER> Complete Joy of Home Brewing" would be so wrong as
> CHOLLIAN-USER> to suggest something dangerous to one's health. Has
> CHOLLIAN-USER> anyone done this? Is glycerol safe to consume? And
> CHOLLIAN-USER> what is glycerol anyway? The amount I'd be using
> CHOLLIAN-USER> would be around two liquid ounces in a five gallon
> CHOLLIAN-USER> batch of beer.
>
>Glycerol is basically a suger, and it is safe to eat. When I use
>it to prepare my frozen yeast cultures, I use it in 10% by volume
>amounts. Included below is my procedure, which has proven true for my last
>12 batches.
A correction to this: glycerol is not a sugar (although it does
have a rather sweet taste) but a higher multiple alcohol, thus the
-ol ending (some older materials also refer to it as "glycerine",
suggesting an amino component, thus further confusing the issue).
The formula, in case anyone cares, is C[3]H[5](OH[3]). Its
relatively sweet flavor and high viscosity lead it to be used in
patent and proprietary medicines as a syrup base, and it's on the
GRAS (Generally Recognized As Safe) list, although I wouldn't swig
it by the tumblerful. Two ounces in a five-gallon batch would be a
concentration of roughly 0.3%, and should present no problems.
Glycerol should absolutely *not* be confused with higher single
alcohols, as e.g. isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol, C[3]H[7]OH. These
alcohols are quite toxic, and no preparation using them should be
ingested, nor used on any material that will be used for brewing.
- --
John W. Braue, III braue@ratsnest.win.net
I prefer both my beer and my coffee to be dark and bitter; that way,
they fit in so well with the rest of my life.
I've decided that I must be the Messiah; people expect me to work
miracles, and when I don't, I get crucified.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 08:40:12 -0800
From: jfrane@teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: 1st wort hopping
I quote in part from George Fix:
>This is an old German procedure where the "aroma hops" (traditionally
>a third of the total) are added to the brew kettle just before it is
>filled. As far as I can tell this procedure disappeared many decades
>ago, and for the better part of the 20th century it has been universally
>accepted that beer aroma is best influenced by late kettle additions,
>post-boil additions to hot wort (e.g., whirlpool hopping), and/or
>cold side hopping during beer maturation.
>
>Recent research in Germany (c.f., Brauwelt, 1995, Vol.4)) suggests that
>this point of view may be overlooking some important effects.
I find all this very intriguing. Recently, I was going to ask
Glenn Tinseth a similar question, but as far as I was able to
determine from Glenn's hop page, he subscribes to the current
thinking about late hop additions. I dropped the pursuit, but
George's post reawakens my curiosity.
George mentions Jean DeClerq's admonitions about hop additions,
but I got pointed in that direction by H L Hind's text from
the 1930s. Hind was pretty clear that the best hop flavor
developed through the boil -- and this is for British ales! The
procedure called for significant hop addition early in the boil
(perhaps two additions, but all early), then dry-hopping in
the cask.
I think a lot of our thinking has been shaped by modern
brewing approaches that deliberately neglect a profound hop
flavor. American pilsners like Budweiser are characterized
by a little hop poof in the nose (very little), but certainly
no significant hop flavor. It makes sense that brewing science
would have been engaged in the pursuit of the best approach to
*that* kind of beer, rather than the Exports, Pilsners and
Pale Ales.
Hmmmm.
- --Jeff Frane
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 12:03:32 -0400
From: steve@snake.appl.wpafb.af.mil (Steve Zabarnick)
Subject: Floating Cornelius keg liquid line dip tube
Because I am gadget design impaired, I need some help from the gadgeteers
out there for a gadget idea of mine. My gadget idea is a floating Cornelius
keg liquid line dip tube. I've found that conditioning (clearing) beers in
Cornelius kegs (without using clarifiers) often takes much longer than for
bottled beer. I attribute the longer clearing times to the longer distance
that the "haze causing stuff" (highly technical term) has to drop through
in a keg. A standard keg has a dip tube which draws beer from the bottom,
so that if you sample before the beer is completely clear, you are actually
sampling the cloudiest portion in the keg. The floating dip tube will
enable one to draw the clearest beer from near the top of the liquid level,
thus reducing conditioning time substantially.
Do you gadgeteers have any good ideas on designing such a floating dip tube?
Steve Zabarnick
Dayton, OH
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 12:30:15 -0500
From: GRMarkel@aol.com
Subject: Leaking keg
I've developed a leak in the poppet valve of my keg. Taking it apart I found
the seal for the seat of the valve damaged. Looking closer its looks like
this seal may not be an O-ring that has taken on the shape of the valve seat.
The question I have, is (was) this an O ring or do I have to seek out a
valve poppet seal????
GRMarkel
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 11:18:31 CST
From: "Roger Deschner " <U52983@UICVM.CC.UIC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Dark Mysteries; Hunter Airstat
To Mr. Dark Mysteries of Brewing:
You need to take the plunge and go all-grain. One of the major things you
will take control over when you do that is color. The color contribution
of extract can be unpredictable, varying with the type of extract, and
how long it's been sitting on the shelf. (It darkens with age.) If it is
technically or matrimonally impossible to brew all-grain, try light dry
malt extract. The dry extract does not darken as badly with age as the
liquid kind. My friends will never let me forget the worst beer I ever
brewed, which came out ORANGE due to old extract. Tasted bad too.
To Mr. Hunter Airstat:
Congratulations on that freezer Santa brought you. Alas, the Hunter
Airstat is no longer being manufactured. It's just as well - many of us
found it problem-prone, although some are happy with it. Just go to a
wholesale air conditioning supply place (in Yellow Pages) and ask them
for a "beer cooler thermostat". It's a standard item made by Honeywell
and others for use in bars. It's a little grey metal box, with electrical
connections, a temperature dial, and a remote sensing probe. Price about
$40. Then take a heavy-guage (#14-3 only, do not use smaller #16 or #18!)
extension cord and cut it up and wire it in. Make sure you cut the black
or smooth wire, not the white or ribbed-texture wire, or the green wire.
Zymurgy some years ago published an article with detailed parts list,
wiring diagrams. You might find it on the AHA web page:
http://www.csn.net:80/aob/. I've seen this item pre-assembled at some
enterprising homebrew shops.
Roger Deschner University of Illinois at Chicago rogerd@uic.edu
Aliases: u52983@uicvm.uic.edu U52983@UICVM.BITNET R.Deschner@uic.edu
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
| "Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants to see us happy." |
| --Benjamin Franklin |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 13:16:39 -0500
From: hoopes@bscr.uga.edu (J. Todd Hoopes)
Subject: Hop Bitterness and Time
Thanks for the responses to my Barlywine yeast question, well I
have more. One new years I opened my 14 month old dopple bock and had a
few. It was smooth, great head nicely carbonated, but too sweet. I know
dopple bocks tend toward sweetness, but mine was too much. The beer
tasted... well off style. More like a Watney's Cream Stout. I have
heard/read that one looses app. half of hop bittering in 6 monthes. I
thought I corrected for this. Does it loose half again in the next six
months? Is there some chart which list empirical loses verse time for such
styles of beer.. Or did I just screw up? I started with about (45 IBUs).
I planning a barlywine as I mentioned. Is 107 IBUs enough?
Any comments on barlywine would be appreciated as I have little
knowledge of this style and can fined only a few recipes and general facts
on it.
*********************************************************************
Do unto others.. for given a reversal of situation they would surely
do it unto you. J. Todd Hoopes <Hoopes@bscr.uga.edu>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 13:15:52 -0600
From: "MICHAEL L. TEED" <MS08653@msbg.med.ge.com>
Subject: Spare Hunter Airstat
.int homebrew@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
I have a spare Hunter Airstat that unfortunately I must find a new home for.
It has been modified for an extra 10dF swing, allowing lagering down to
30dF. Brand new, never used, but tested. The modification is switchable
in/out just in case for some odd reason you wish to control higher
temperatures linearly. For the first offer of $35 to reach my emailbox
I will hold the unit for you.
Mike Teed, ms08653@msbg.med.ge.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 09:13:24 -0600
From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Subject: Belgian Candi Sugar
There has been some discussion recently of Belgian Candi Sugar, its uses
and availability. I have used the dark a few times in a Fuller's ESB clone.
The recipe came off the internet somewhere and I have lost the author's
name but he intimated that the BCS was for color. I have found it
available at Brewer's Resource (800) 827-3983 and St. Patricks's of
Texas (512) 832-9045 or stpats@wixer.bga.com.
St. Pat's didn't have any in stock when I tried to order from them
but they list it in their catalog. I bought mine from Brewer's Resource.
Now to a question of my own.
If bittering hops added an hour or so before the end of the boil do not
contribute flavor or aroma, as I have been led to believe, why are specific
bittering hops named in recipes? Why wouldn't any hops, perhaps the highest
alpha acid, be used? I guess George Fix's comments about Columbia hops
and early hopping fit in here. I would like to see some knowledgeable
discussion of this subject. I need enlightening as perhaps do others.
John Wilkinson Grapevine/Plano/Palestine, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 14:46:30 -0500
From: Bill Rust <wrust@csc.com>
Subject: Re: 1st Wort Hopping
Happy New Year, HBD!
In HBD #1926, George Fix mentioned...
>This is an old German procedure where the "aroma hops" (traditionally
>a third of the total) are added to the brew kettle just before it is
>filled.
I guess it's my turn to ask the first silly question of the new year. This
may be over-simplifying, but if one of us wanted to try this at home
(ignoring any previous warnings) we could just add the aroma hops (roughly
1/3 the total) to the cold brewing water when we first put it on to boil.
Then put the rest in after the water has come to a boil and boil, say 45-60
minutes with no other hop additions. This is assuming of course, that our
test batch was an extract brew.
Has anyone actually tried this technique? How about with an English style
ale? My next brew is a Pale ale. I always like to try something a little
different with my Pales, and this sounds like a good candidate.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Rust, Master Brewer | Blessings of your heart,
Jack Pine Savage Brewery | you brew good ale.
Shiloh, IL (NACE) | --Two Gentlemen of Verona, Shakespeare
-------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:00:37 -0500
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Subject: Bunch O' Stuff
****************
<scold key pressed>
I have to stick my $0.02 in about the recent hootin' and hollerin' here on
the Digest. Beginner/Pro, Hopped-Extract/All-grain, for Pete's sake CAN'T WE
ALL JUST GET ALONG (thanks Rodney)? Sure, some of you have been brewing for
a hundred years, since you were two, but the rest of us are just regular
guys/gals trying to make a decent pint. Everyone's opinion counts, questions
deserve answers, and even the recent long-winded "Jim Koch is a _______"
(fill-in-the-flame) thread was occasionally thought-provoking. Disagreements
and fact-straightening can be much more cordial than it's been, folks. I
like to think serious homebrewers are intelligent enough to know how to
handle disagreement in an appropriate manner. Enough!
<scold key released>
*******************
Quick HOWDY/WELCOME to Louie Vidal!! Jump in homeboy!
*******************
Dr. Fix, I'm still a little hazy on the "1st wort" thing:
> This is an old German procedure where the "aroma hops" (traditionally
> a third of the total) are added to the brew kettle just before it is
> filled.
Does this mean toss the hops into an empty boiler, then sparge wort into the
kettle & commence boiling as usual? And for an extract brewer, would this
mean putting hops in the kettle, then adding cold water & begin heating? If
so, are the supposed benefits acheived by this "cold soak"?
*********************
Some newbie questions addressed:
> 1. When boiling, is it necessary to cover the boil?? I have 4 books
> and only 1 of the book mentions covering the boil.
Although probably a matter of personal preference, I have heard at least one
tale of DMS and other scary things condensing and dripping back into the boil
kettle. Momism-busters may comment. Covering the boil is also highly
conducive to boilovers, so be careful if you do. Any water lost to
evaporation can be (usually is) made up in the fermenter.
> 2. When transferring to the fermenter, should you use a strainer??
> I used a strainer and trapped about a cup of mud-like matter, maybe
> the hops??
Strainers clog easily (as you point out), so be sure to use a BIG one.
Siphoning is effective in effecting relatively-clean transfer of wort and is
arguably the method of choice. You can use a copper/SS scrub pad on the end
of the racking tube as a filter. Or you could just dump everything into the
fermenter (heresy! I'll burn at the stake!). This is probably at the low
end of the list of "Desirable Ways to Transfer Your Wort" however!!
> 3. I pitched the yeast and after 4-5 hours I noticed occasional air bubbles
> in the air lock. During the next 36 hours there was a constant stream
> of air bubbles in the air lock, but after that it has subsided to almost
> nothing. Could it be done?? Should I do anything, or just wait a bit??
Visible fermentation is quite often finished this quickly, depending on yeast
strain, temperature, wort composition, and other stuff. Not to worry. If
you have a hydrometer (and took an initial reading), another reading can
gauge the doneness. If about 75% of the gravity over 1.000 is gone, you're
done. Example: if starting gravity was 1.040 and now it's around 1.010,
it's finished. Rack to secondary or bottle if you wish.
******************
On immersion chiller agitation:
I modified my copper immersion chiller coil (being the powerful brute that I
am) so that most of the coils are close, but so the bottom coil "drops off"
to make up the difference in wort depth. In other words, most of the coils
sit at (just under) the top of the wort while one lonely coil holds the rest
up. This does two things: (1) Creates some convection by virtue of the
altitude of the majority of the coils relative to the total wort depth, and
(2) the bottom coil acts as a "springy" (technical term) so one can jiggle
the coil to further break that dreaded boundary layer of cool wort clinging
to the coil. I also use a prechiller coil which sits in the sink; I add ice
and water around it when the wort temp is about 120F for that old thermal
pressure thing. The fact that only one turn of the coil is anywhere near the
trub (I whirlpool the wort before immersion) means that one can agitate by
jiggling the springy without mucking things up. Cooling from 205F (boil temp
at 3500 feet) to 75F takes about 15 min, I suppose that's about par.
*********************
On Rock Candi(y):
Why bother making rock candy at all? Just dump in the sucrose if that's what
you're after! Nah, it can't be *that* easy...
*****************************************
Ken Schwartz
El Paso, TX
Days since last snow : 1
Raquel Welch: "I was asked to come to Chicago because Chicago is one of our
fifty-two states."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:43:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Rob Reed <rhreed@icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: WYEAST Lag Times
Jim Hust writes:
> For the first time I used liquid yeast
> (Wyeast London ESB 1968). It had a date of 12/20/95 on it and my
> local homebrew supply retailer said that since it was that fresh there
> would be no need to make a starter for greater volume. I just pitched
> it direct at about 70F.
<snip>
> Should it have taken over 36 hours, and is my bubble rate
> fast enough?
Many consider 1-10E6 cells per ml. of cast-out wort an optimum pitching rate
for fermentation. If you assume that at high kraeusen (HK), your starter is
at or near 10E6 cells per ml., then it follows that one can pitch an
X ml. starter-at or past HK-into a 10X volume of wort, i.e. step up by a
factor of ten and still be in the 'optimum' range for yeast concentration.
If you accept this, then starting with a 50 ml. WYEAST smak-pak, one can step
up to 500 ml. and then step up again to 2 L., which is then pitched into the
5 gal. batch. This sounds like a huge starter, but I believe your
fermentations will be more complete and will proceed more quickly if you do.
In short, your retailer led you down the path of least effort, rather than the
path of optimum fermentation.
I believe Ray Daniels discussed this topic in some detail several months ago
in HBD'land.
Cheers,
Rob Reed
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 15:53:56 -0500
From: cem@cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: 1st Wort Hopping
Having read with interest the recent article on GFix on first wort
hopping I've a few questions.... I assume others will have more..
- Does this mean that the aroma hops are thrown into the empty
kettle and the wort is lautered onto them?
- For bitterness calculations, do I assume these are a full length
boil?
- Does this only pertain to aroma....eg. flavor hop additions
as always.
prosit
chuckm
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 96 14:23:00 PST
From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 4ID DISCOM" <GoodaleD@hood-03.army.mil>
Subject: Sagebrush powder
To the collective,
Due to a large Korean community here, you can
get all sorts of strange things in the local stores.
While browsing, I found powdered sagebrush
used to make sagebrush tea. The tea tastes like
Japanese green tea by the way. Can I use this in
my beer? If so, what style would best suit the flavor?
How much should I use? Will I get green beer?
Will it be dangerous? Will I find inner peace when
I drink it? And what about outer peace?
Suggestions anyone??????????????????
goodaled@hood-03.army.mil
DANIEL W. GOODALE
CPT, CM
DISCOM CHEMO
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 17:24:09 -0800
From: bbrowne@golder.com (Barry Browne)
Subject: The FIX mashing schedules or what's up with the malt?
Hoppy to all,
I want to know what the consensus is with respect to G. Fix's mash
schedules.
Last night I read and reread all info I have on this topic, which
includes Dr. Fix's original 1994 posts, Spencer's (I think it was
Spencer?) comments on the same, and miscellaneous other stuff. What I
gather is that the 40-60-70 schedule is best suited for well modified
malt and the 50-60-70 schedule is for less well-modified malt. The
curiosity is that recent reports on various popular malts have
observed that all malts, including pilsner malts, are WELL modified.
Therefore, according to the original Fix mashing schedules, all mashes
will now be 40-60-70.
Since I am no longer RIMS challenged (thanks Rick), I can easily
perform step mashing, and intend to do so from now on. I can easily
get, and do, the following brands of malt: Munton and Fison, Hugh
Baird, DeWolf-Cosyns, Ireks, Briess. I do not have easy access to
Durst, Gambrinus or malt analysis data . For those of you who've
suffered through this uninformative post, I would really appreciate
learning of your experience (or hear comments/advice) with the mashing
schedules and the malts.
I thank you all and WILL summarize as I think it a topic of wide
interest. Hey if I think it's important, it has to be 8^)
Barry Browne
Atlanta, GA
bbrowne@golder.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 14:57:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd@uchastings.edu>
Subject: Irish moss and will it work for wine?
I am mostly a wine maker with the occasional winter batch of mead, and
decided to read up on Irish Moss. I have heard that it is sometimes used
to clarify mead of all styles as well as beer. This raised the question
"could it be used in a like fashion for wine?" I am always looking for
good fining and clarifying agents, so any suggestions or ideas are
welcome. Post or e-mail
Doug Thomas
thomasd@uchastings.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 22:21:19 +0000 (GMT)
From: HOUCK KEITH A <HOUCK_KEITH_A@Lilly.com>
Subject: Stoudt's yeast for Belgian double and tripel
Hey y'all,
Stoudts Belgian Double and Tripel are mighty fine brews. I hope lots of
you get the opportunity to try some. Does anyone have any information on
the yeast(s) used? Are they single strain? Is the ale bottle-conditioned
with the same yeast? TIA for any information you might have.
Keith Houck
Orange County, NC
hak@lilly.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 18:19:46 -0500
From: denisb@CAM.ORG (Denis Barsalo)
Subject: Kitchen Aid Grain Mill / Maerzen
Happy New Year to all,
There's always been a lot of talk of various grain mills on HBD but
I've never heard anything about the grain mill attachement that works with
the professional style Kitchen Aid blenders. The brochure claims it's for
grinding grain to fine flour or coarse chunks. Can anyone tell me if this
is a proper roller type grinder with fine adjustments or a plate type
grinder like the Coronas? I'm presently using a Phil's Mill at the
brewstore, but the owner hasn't motorized it yet. I'm very happy with the
crush and my extraction rate is excellent, but grinding 10lbs of grain
takes quite a while when you're turning that crank! (Besides, I would
rather do it at home.)
I'm planning on brewing a Maerzen this weekend. I'll be using Saaz
hops (1oz boil, 1/2 oz flavor, 1/2 oz finish) and an additional 1/2 oz of
Hallertauer for finish. Most recipes I've found suggest Tettnang, but fresh
Tettnang is practically impossible to find where I am (Montreal), whereas
the Saaz and Hallertauer are quite fresh.
While I'm at it, what's the difference between a Maerzen and an
Oktoberfest? The way I see it, the only difference is the season that it's
traditionally brewed in!
Denis Barsalo
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1927, 01/04/96
*************************************
-------
