Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #1939
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/01/19 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1939 Fri 19 January 1996
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Honey Bees in Texas ("Scott J. Mindrebo")
Alcohol reduction (Kelly E Jones)
Chartreuse and Science surplus (Douglas Thomas)
Re: Aeration Cane ("Pat Babcock")
newbie kegger (Flinsch, Alex)
Skimming an Open Ferment (Tim Laatsch)
Re: More on Open Fermentation (Barry M Wertheimer)
Stupid homebrewer tricks (Spencer W Thomas)
Klages malt (Ken Frampton)
Re: caramel (Spencer W Thomas)
Primary fermenter only - autolysis, flavor info request (DEBOLT BRUCE)
sparge water temp (Bryan Gros)
Update on 5 L mini-kegs (SSLOFL)
1-800 brew catalogs (James A Lindberg)
O2 required?, when to pitch ("Tracy Aquilla")
First Decoction attempt ... ("Michael A. Owings")
Aerating racking canes & open fermenters (blacksab)
homebrew outlets in Stamford, CT area?? (Tom Lochtefeld (Risk Mgt))
CO Safety (Paul D. Wiatroski)
Frozen Wyeast packs ("Larry.Carden")
PEM (Bill Rust)
Blowoff yeast (RUSt1d?)
Fwd: apologies and lager question (PWhite)
hops etc (ROTH.TER)
lager open ferments (Andy Walsh)
******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
*
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have
ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service,
send an e-mail message to ftpmail@gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
"help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 19:33:39 -0600
From: "Scott J. Mindrebo" <dmindreb@gator1.brazosport.cc.tx.us>
Subject: Honey Bees in Texas
In hbd 1936 Tim says:
>Hello all, while brewing outdoors this weekend, the honey bees came out of
>the woodwork. Must have been the mid 70 degree weather here in South Texas.
>Anyway they found my runoff while sparging, and then my homebrew glass! Not
>bad though, they taste kinda like chicken.
>
I also had the same experience two weeks ago :') While brewing a Nut Brown
Ale, A honey bee would not let me increase the flow rate of my sparge. I
would chase it away and seconds later it would re-land on my flow regulator.
I thought it was an omen so I primed this batch with a cup of Honey. Down
here in Texas, I'm just thankful it was not Killer Bees heading north :-)
****************************************************************************
Scott J. Mindrebo | "some people say life's like a
| merry-go-round
| I think it's more like a ferris wheel
Lake Jackson, Tx | cause sometimes you're up,
dmindreb@gator1.Brazosport.cc.tx.us | sometimes your down" - Todd Rundgren
****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 02:37:45 GMT
From: Kelly E Jones <kejones@ptdcs2.intel.com>
Subject: Alcohol reduction
First, hats off to Bruce DeBolt for doing the experiments on alcohol
reduction by freezing. There seems to be a lot of hands-on
experimentation going on among the HBD readership these days. It's
looking as though the HBD is setting the standards for homebrewing
technology, more so than any 'official' homebrew organization.
Although Bruce's results are disappointing (for those looking for a
simple alcohol reduction technique), they are not at all surprising.
The problem is that alcohol and water do not separate completely when
they freeze or boil. When an alcohol-water mixture is boiled, the
vapor being lost is not pure alcohol, but has a significant
concentration of water. For example, boiling a 5% alcohol solution
produces a vapor which is 37% alcohol, 63% water. You're removing
more water than alcohol! Thus, by the time you've removed 90% of the
alcohol, you've also removed a great deal of water (for example Bruce
reports loss of 30% total volume). The same deal goes for freezing,
the stuff that doesn't freeze is not pure alcohol, but a water-alcohol
mix, with the percentage of alcohol in the liquid fraction being
higher than it is in the slush.
One way to overcome this is via "fractional" distillation, in which
the solution is frozen once, the liquid separated from the slush, and each
of these two separate fractions is then partially refrozen, and the
liquid portions drawn off. The two liquid portions are combined, as
are the two frozeen portions. This process is repeated over and over,
until eventually one has one fraction with mostly alcohol, and another
which is mostly non-alcoholic beer. But I imagine this is too much
trouble for most of us.
Kelly
Portland, OR
- Now putting up the sheetrock in the homebrewery!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 22:05:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Douglas Thomas <thomasd@uchastings.edu>
Subject: Chartreuse and Science surplus
Here are two items I have received many requests for.
First, American Science and Surplus
3605 Howard Street, Skokie, IL 60076
order fax: 800-934-0722
order pnoe: 847-982-0870
8-5p m-f central time
Ithink the years catalog subscription was 2 or $3
also, the Chartreuse recipe from Fortunes in formulas
Fresh balm mint herbs-------64 parts
frsh hyssop herbs-----------64 parts
angelica herbs and root
fresh, ground together------32 parts
cinnamon--------------------16 parts
saffron--------------------- 4 parts
mace------------------------ 4 parts
subject the above ingredients to maceration for a week with alcohol (96
percent), 1000 parts, then squeeze off and distill the liquid obtained
overn the same certain quantity of fresh herbs and hyssop. After 125
parts of sugar have benn added to the resultant liqueur, filter.
The genuine chartreuse comes in three different colors, viz, green, white
and yellow. The coloration, however is not artificial but is determined
by the addition of varying quantities of fresh herbs in the
distillation. But since it would require long and tedious trials to
produce the right color in a small manufacture, the yellow shade is best
imparted by a little tincture of saffron, and the green one by the
addition of a few drops of indigo solution for food.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 06:41:02 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock@oeonline.com>
Subject: Re: Aeration Cane
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
Yikes! Since AJ was responding to a letter I'd sent him asking what
the DO from an aeration cane would be, I thought I would pipe in on
this newly revamped aeration cane thread. (Could we avoid the
Venturi/Bernoulli lessons this time, though? Please? Pretty
please?!?) In my note to AJ, I thought I had described how mine was
made, but, apparently, I had not as his description isn't quite like
the one that follows.
Here's how I made mine...
Materials:
* One of those orange rubber carboy caps. The one with two tubes coming
from the top.
* A racking cane.
* Your siphon tube.
Procedure:
OK. Drill some holes about 14 inches from the bottom of the cane. I
drilled four holes at 90 degrees positions around the cane, 1/16"
dia, and at an angle of 135 degrees to the direction of flow (see
pitiful ASCII art to follow). I then drilled a second row about 3/8"
on center below the first, offset by 45 degrees around the cane, and,
again at 135 degrees to the flow. Saw off the 'hook' of the cane,
and put your siphon hose on it. Put the other end through the center
tube of the carboy cap, and attach a tube to the other port to carry
off the excess foam that will be generated (or, wait for the foam to
subside before continuing).
Now, keep the holes above the carboy cap, and it will draw air into
the wort stream, aerating your wort as you siphon. Works great.
Cheap ASCII art to follow. It is best viewed with a non-
proportionally spaced font, like Monospace 821 BT or any OCR font.
___
| | <=- Cut off just beneath the radius
| F | to the 'hook'. Attach hose from
| L | your source vessel here.
| O |
| W |
| | |
|\|/|
| |
\\ | | //<=- orientation of drill bit when
\\| |// drilling 1/16" holes.
\| O |/ Drill holes for first row at
\\ | | // 0, 90, 180, 270 degrees
\\| |// (12:00, 3:00, 6:00, 9:00)
\|) (|/ Drill holes for second row at
| | 45, 135, 225, 315 degrees
| | (2:30, 4:30, 7:30, 10:30)
| |
| |
| |
~ ~
~ ~
| |
| |<=- Insert this end into the center
| | port of a carboy cap. Attach a
| | discharge hose to the other to
| | carry excess foam to some
|___| convenient container or location.
Hope it helps.
See ya!
Pat Babcock in Canton, Michigan (Western Suburb of Detroit)
pbabcock@oeonline.com URL: http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 07:30:00 -0500
From: aflinsch@njebmail.attmail.com (Flinsch, Alex)
Subject: newbie kegger
Greetings all,
I recently purchased a keg setup (used keg, new co2 cyl, hoses seals &
regulator) and have a few questions.
After bringing the keg home I replaced all of the o-ring seals on the gas in
& beer out connections along with the ring on the dip tube and the big one
on the lid. I then did an overnight soda ash soak to clean out the keg. The
next evening (last night) I purged out the soda-ash solution, and rinsed the
keg twice. Since I was about a week away from kegging (batch was transferred
to secondary on Sunday night), I decided to test out the keg by making plain
old seltzer water. I filled the keg to about 1 1/2 inches from the gas in
tube, put it in the fridge and hit it with about 25 psi until I heard the
gas stop running, then turned it down to 10 psi and left it on. Early this
morning I decided to check on it before coming to work, Highly carbonated
into the glass but went flat almost instantly. Looking at the gas gauges it
seems that the high pressure guage dropped from 800 psi to just under 400
psi, and was now reading in the "Order Gas Now" range on the dial.
Now the questions -
Is the gauge temp sensitive (reading lower after being chilled overnight)
DIHAGL/IMTE (do I have a gas leak/is my tank empty) ? I don't think so,
since I checked all of the fittings with soapy water before putting the
whole thing into the fridge.
When force carbonating should I leave the gas on, or hit it with pressure
then turn it off.
Anyway I turned off the gas and am letting it sit until I get home tonight.
TIA
Alex
...
7:30 am at work, too early for a homebrew, early enough to start
worrying.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:11:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH@kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: Skimming an Open Ferment
Hello All,
It would seem that we have an open fermentation thread going, so let me
perpetuate. I now have a Scottish Export Ale in strong open fermentation
with Wyeast 1084. As per recent suggestions, I skimmed the trub off
the krauesen layer once per day until no further trub appeared (only 2
days). Being unafraid of anything beer and in the quest for knowledge, I
tasted some of the trub-laden foam. It was the most intensely bitter
substance I've ever had the displeasure of tasting. That started me
thinking...how does skimming impact hop bitterness levels in the finished
beer? Logic would seem to say that bitterness would be decreased. I've been
very pleased with the previous bitterness levels in my beer, but my former
method of fermentation allowed the trub to fall back in the beer. Will I
have to adjust IBUs in the future to compensate for the decrease in
bitterness related to skimming??
This batch is a pseudo-replicate of a previous recipe, so some direct
comparison may be possible, but it's definitely not a controlled experiment.
FWIW, this ferment smells better than any I've done previously---very fruity
and aromatic. Brew on,
Tim
PS Someone asked about commercial bottle-conditioned beer. I know Kalamazoo
Brewing uses corn sugar to prime their kegs, but I'm pretty sure they also
prime the bottled beer with corn sugar as well. Any Kzoo people out there to
corroberate of refute this factoid??
************************************************************************
| Timothy P. Laatsch | laatsch@kbs.msu.edu |
| Microbial Ecology Grad | Head Brewer, Spruce Grove Nanobrewery |
| Michigan State Univ/KBS | Check out my homebrewing page on the Web! |
| Kalamazoo, MI | http://kbs.msu.edu/~laatsch/beerhome.html |
*************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:36:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry M Wertheimer <wertheim@UTKVX.UTCC.UTK.EDU>
Subject: Re: More on Open Fermentation
Jeff Frane wrote:
>I sanitize a stainless steel kitchen whip, lean into the fermenter and
>beat the wort into a froth
Sounds a little kinky. Seriously, what is the size of the whip? If it
is the sort of device I am thinking of (for whipping cream, etc.), it
wouldn't go very deep into the wort (I think I am thinking of a whisk; is
a whip different?). Are you beating at the surface or
am I off base? Also, curious whether this is the primary/sole means of
aeration, or whether you also pump in air/oxygen?
Barry
wertheim@utkvx.utk.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:39:21 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Stupid homebrewer tricks
The other night, I racked my pale ale into a keg. I hooked up a
direct connection from the racking cane to a tap (plugged into the
liquid connector), and I purged the tank with CO2, trying to avoid all
possible aeration of the beer during racking. I attached another tap
to the gas connector to vent CO2 while racking.
Then, I suffered a momentary lapse of intelligence, and decided to suck
on the hose attached to the gas connector to start the siphon.
DON'T DO THAT!!!! When I stopped coughing, I realized that inhaling
pure CO2 is not good for me.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 09:47:26 -0500
From: Ken Frampton <kdf1@acpub.duke.edu>
Subject: Klages malt
What, exactly is Klages malt? Is this a brand name or a style?
If it's a brand name who is the malting company? If it's a style
of malt what is the difference between it and pale malt?
An inquiring brewer wants to know.
Ken Frampton (kdf1@acpub.duke.edu)
Graduate Student
Duke University
Department of Mechanical Engineering
Box 90302
Durham, NC 27708-0302
Voice:(919) 660-5434
Fax: (919) 660-8963
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:45:37 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: caramel
My favorite way to make caramelized sugar is this:
Put the desired quantity of sugar in a heavy saucepan. Heat it on the
stove, *STIRRING CONSTANTLY* until it melts and browns to the desired
degree. Pour out onto greased foil to cool. DO NOT pour it into
water, as it can cause explosive boiling.
It takes a bit of practice to do this reliably, and it's easier on a
gas stove where you can control the heat quickly, but I find it works
a lot better for me than trying to boil off a small quantity of water
to get to the caramel stage. Note that there's only a small
(temperature) interval between the melting point and burning point of
sugar, so constant stirring is essential, as is proper heat
regulation.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 08:49:02 -0600
From: DEBOLT BRUCE <bdebolt@dow.com>
Subject: Primary fermenter only - autolysis, flavor info request
Due to some recent problems with oxidation I've been re-thinking my whole
brewing process. I believe the cause was a gradual accumulation of
sloppiness in transfer and lauter methods. For all complacent brewers -
remember to transfer finished beer gently, don't add your priming sugar
solution on top of your racked beer because you forgot to do it before
siphoning, watch for air entrainment in the drain hose from your lauter
tun, make sure you have a good connection between your racking cane and
racking hose (air can get in there). The previous sentence covers both
hot side aeration and oxidation of alcohol problems. All obvious stuff,
but apparently one or more of these got me. End result was beer that
tasted great at bottling, then deteriorated rapidly. This problem was
caught because I submitted an entry to a contest and received my lowest
score ever. I learned that detecting oxidation early on was not in my
tasting repetoire. It helps to have someone else evaluate your beer.
The problems may have been a blessing in disguise. I made a batch using
only a primary fermenter for the first time in years, to eliminate the
secondary racking step. The time and hassle saving was significant. I
will probably brew this way a lot more often in the future.
I would like to hear from brewers who have used a primary fermenter only
and let the beer sit more than a week. My concerns are autolysis and any
other flavor affects. Clarity is not an issue. I use glass fermenters.
This topic has been covered in the past (I remember Al K. commenting on
it) but I didn't pay close attention since it didn't apply to my
procedures. Will summarize and post the results.
TIA.
Bruce DeBolt
Lake Jackson, TX
------------------------------
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu
From: grosbl@ctrvax.Vanderbilt.Edu (Bryan Gros)
Subject: sparge water temp
Aidan "Hairy Hibernian" Heerdegen <aidan@rschp2.anu.edu.au> wrote:
>Al (korz@pubs.ih.att.com) wrote and quoted:
>> >> c. Sparge
>> >Don't go higher than 168 deg f.
>>
>> See above.
>My comment is basically re-iterating something JS said a *long*
>time ago, and was poo poo-ed for .. that your sparge water can
>be ALOT hotter than 168, but that dosen't mean your *grain bed*
>will be .. which is, after all, where all the action is.
I will second this opinion. I generally heat my sparge water to near
boiling and rack it to a Gott cooler. My lauter tun is not terribly
insulated, and I keep my thermometer in the center of the grain bed.
Using the hotter sparge water, which is probably only about 185 or less
when it gets to the grain, helps keep the grain temp from dropping too
far.
- Bryan
grosbl@ctrvax.vanderbilt.edu
p.s. anyone want to point me to a brewing club in Nashville? If not,
anyone want to start one?
- Bryan
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:39:13 -0600
From: SSLOFL@ccmail.monsanto.com
Subject: Update on 5 L mini-kegs
I received several responses from people asking for advice on 5
liter mini-kegging systems. Apparently, I am not the only one having
problems with these things! A few people did respond with some very
good tips and advice. I just wanted to post what I have learned so
far. Two people responded and are having luck with these, so I
believe that lack of information is one main problem, since the
directions inclosed are not that great.
My original question was: (quoting myself here)
>The bottled strawberry ale had a good carbonation level, and had good
>head retention. The kegged strawberry ale was the same as the kegged
>rootbeer - the head quickly disappeared, and the beer tasted flat
>within 5 minutes.
<snip>
>Can anyone out there give me some advice on how to use one of these
>with good results - or if it is even possible to get good results from
>them?
Fredrik Sthl responded:
>I brew mostly British ales with low carbonation and they come
>out fine. I'm not so sure about lagers - I haven't thought about it
>before. I'll brew a Dunkelweizen later this spring. I thought I
>would bottle all of it (to get a Hefeweizen) but now I think I'll
>fill one keg at least. We'll see how that turns out.
A friend (thanks Norm!) gave me a paper written by Feddo Wouters in
response to a question about leaking mini-keg taps. (Let me know if
you are interested, and I will forward you a copy.) I wrote him, and
he sent me the following response:
Feddo Wouters writes:
> Common problems, no easy answers. I think there are three factors:
> 1) the amount of DISSOLVED carbon-dioxide, which
> a) causes a sparkling beer
> b) produces the foam when it escapes.
> 2) the amount of (CO2-) pressure ABOVE the beer, which
> a) must keep the dissolved CO2 in solution.
> b) pushes the beer out of the keg
> 3) the stability of the foam (how long will a bubble last).
>Factor 1
>--------
>Given the fact that 5-l kegs can not take as much pressure as glass
>bottles, it's usually recommended to use only half as much priming
>sugar when you use 5-L kegs. (For bottles, I use 10 gram/Liter, for
>kegs I use 5 gram/Liter) Of course, the amount of CO2 (produced by
>the yeast) will only be half as much too.
> => This means we can forget about 'sparkling'. Won't work. Check
>out the commercial beers in 5-L kegs: they don't sparkle either.
> It can produce enough foam, though. The trick is, to keep the foam
>once it's there.
> Factor 2
> --------
>Given the fact that there isn't much dissolved CO2 to begin with,
>it's a good idea to keep it dissolved. So don't draw a beer with the
>CO2 pressure off. Otherwise, the CO2 will escape from the beer into
>the headroom of the keg. Keep the pressure on, just a little. And
>increase pressure when the keg gets more and more empty.
>Another important aspect is temperature. At lower temperatures, more
>CO2 dissolves. So, after fermentation is finished (1 week) store the
>kegs as cold as you can (but don't freeze them of course).
> Factor 3
> --------
>Number 3 is mainly influenced by the kind/size of proteins in the
>beer. They should 'catch' the CO2, and not let it escape.
>If you use more wheat, the stability of the foam should increase, if
>all other factors remain the same. You can also take a shorter
>protein-rest at 50 degrees C (like 15 minutes instead of 30).
> Hope this gets you experimenting...
Yes it will, thank you Feddo!
So what have we learned about all of this so far? One, wheat beers
have better head retention - so try one of those. Mini-kegs work
great for beers with lower carbonation levels, but sparkling light
bodied beers don't work very well - which was my main mistake. Higher
hop levels give better head retention. Finally, higher bodied (FG)
beers have larger proteins, which help hold CO2 in solution.
Keeping this in mind, it is time to start experimenting again. All
of you out there with mini-keg systems - lets give it a try using
these guidelines. Please keep me posted on your results. The more
data points we have with the more variety of beers in them, the more
we can learn. Please let me know good and bad results. Keep those
responses coming! To all of you readers with one of these 5 L
mini-keg setups, speak up and let me know your results and styles
used.
Thank you to all who responded. I hope this helps everyone.
Shane Lofland
(sslofl@ccmail.monsanto.com)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 09:59:55 -0600
From: James A Lindberg <jal@cray.com>
Subject: 1-800 brew catalogs
If you would like a list of 1-800 and Internet Brew Catalogs,
send email to me. This is the same list as is posted on
rec.crafts.brewing. Unfortunately it is to large to post on
this list.
Jim
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
/`-_ Jim Lindberg | You can't brew a premium lager
{ . }/ Cray Research Inc. | With a koolaid mentality.
\ / Chippewa Falls, WI 54729 USA | -Harold Green
|___| jal@cray.com | (from "The Red Green Show")
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 11:21:23 CST
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: O2 required?, when to pitch
In Digest #1937:
<tgaskell@e3sa.elab.syr.ge.com> (Tom Gaskell) wrote:
[snip]
>Tracy says:
>> S. cerevisiae
>> is one of the few species of yeast which has absolutely no
>> requirement for O2.
>
>Tracy, does this mean that S. uvarum HAS an O2 requirement?
No, it doesn't. I should have said "Saccharomyces species of yeast have no
O2 requirement". Sorry for the confusion.
>Also, regarding copyrights and commercial value of info in the hbd, you
>and the other folks that are giving us these technical yeast lessons
>should attach at least a one line copyright notice. This info is
>invaluable in the care and feeding of our favorite pets!
I don't feel it's really necessary. I'm covered under the Berne convention
and I don't think I'll be suing anyone over this issue. I figure most of the
readers here are decent folks who wouldn't violate my copyright and I doubt
many others would read the digest. I also doubt if anyone could make much
money off this stuff anyway!
Then <wawa@datasync.com> (Wade Wallinger) wrote:
[snip]
>I recall a discussion several months ago about the proper
>stage of yeast 'growth' at which to pitch a starter. There
>were two schools of though, I also recall. One that you
>should pitch at high krausen when the glycogen level was
>highest, and the other that you should pitch just after the
>krausen falls. No flames if this is wrong, I'm pulling this
>from the remaining brain cells in my head.
>
>Now to get to the question. It seems to me that starters
>are used to build up the cell count needed for healthy
>fermentation given the quantity of work to do (i.e., sugar
>to ferment). Once that is achieved, it seems that the
>starter should be pitched just after the oxygen is used to
>fully develop the cell walls (which is what I gathered from
^^^^^^^^^^
>the metabolism discussion) rather than after fermentation
>activity is underway. In other words, once you have enough
>cells, you want to get them through the stage that *prepares*
>them for fermentation rather than getting them into the
>fermentation stage. Can one of the biologists in the crowd
>comment on the best time to pitch in light of the yeast
>metabolism discussion currently underway.
Here's another controversy I just can't pass up (I'm gearing up to review
the literature on this topic too). Without getting into the details of when
glycogen levels are highest (yet), I think the best time to pitch is when
the culture is at or near the peak of the log phase (after high kraeusen,
but before activity slows), assuming one has grown a large enough starter to
begin with. What's much more critical is the SIZE of the culture (i.e.
number of cells). Pitching a 'big enough' starter will help to overcome many
common problems and it's generally difficult for homebrewers to overpitch.
(BTW, oxygen is used in the synthesis of sterols which are then used in the
synthesis of membranes, NOT cell walls. This is an important distinction, as
these are two entirely different cellular structures.)
Tracy in Vermont
aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 08:34:32 -0600 (CST)
From: "Michael A. Owings" <mikey@waste.com>
Subject: First Decoction attempt ...
I will soon be attempting to brew a Munich Dunkel. I wanted to try a
double decoction, but my experience so far has been with directly-fired
kettle mashing with an easy masher. My grain bill is as follows:
4 lbs Ayinger Pils malt
1 lb D-C Cara Munich
1 lb Ayinger wheat
5 lbs Ayinger Munich
My proposed mashing schedule:
First decoction
- ---------------
1) Mix grains with 3.5 gals water and rest at 98 degrees for 15 minutes.
2) Remove thickest 40% of the mash. In a separate kettle, heat this
decocotion to @ 155F. and hold for 20 minutes.
3) Bring decoction to a boil. Boil for 30 minutes, stirring constantly.
4) Slowly return decoction to main mash, raising main mash temp to @ 122
F. Hold temp for 20 minutes
Second Decoction
- ----------------
1) Repeat steps 2 and 3 above.
2) Return decoction to main mash slowly to achieve a target temp of
152-155 F. Hold until starch conversion is complete (20 minutes to an
hour?).
I'll mash out and sparge as usual.
Anyone tried this before? If so, how does this procedure look? Am I
missing anything important here? Thanx in advance ...
=============================================================================
Michael Owings Chief of Operations
Uncle Leroi's Hazardous Materials Storage and FemtoBrewery New Orleans, LA
=============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 11:57:12 -0600
From: blacksab@siu.edu
Subject: Aerating racking canes & open fermenters
I use an aerating racking cane, but since I have a pump between the cane and
the CF wort chiller, I don't have the problem with breaking the siphon. My
guess is that as long as the holes in the cane are below the liquid level of
the boiling kettle, the siphon cannot be broken, because at that point the
liquid is moving by gravity, and not siphon.
As I understand it, the principle working here is a venturi--just like the
fuel mixture in a carburator. Efficiency could be improved if the flow were
constricted, speeding up the flow of liquid. I don't have mt automotive book
handy, so I don't remember whether the constriction should be before or
after the holes. BTW, since I'm really proud of my new cane, and it works
really well, and since my non-brewing friends think I'm a lunatic, I've got
to show someone...
-----
|
| 2.
|
| |
| |
| |
_______| |
X 1.|
X_______ |
| |
| |
| |
|
|
| 3.
|
|
The 2 X's are a 1/4-in ball valve. I have a male flare fitting threaded into
the left side, and to that I use beverage tubing and fittings to attatch the
thing to the pump/CF wort-chiller.
1. This is a brass, 1/4-in. NPT Tee
2. This is a dial thermometer, 1-in. dial. I covered the upper portion of
the stem with clear tubing allowing me to fit it into a compression fitting.
The stem extends the length of the Tee, allowing the wort to bathe enough of
the tip to get a reading. (The tip is NOT covered in tubing) PLEASE NOTE: I
suspect the tubing will have to be changed regularly since the compression
ring had to be omitted. If anyone has a better idea for this connection, I'm
open for suggestions.
3. This is a flared piece of 3/8-in. copper tubing that attaches to the Tee
with a flare fitting. The holes begin ~1/8-in. below the flare nut. The
holes are 1/16-in. and there are 12 of them, 3 rows of 4 holes each,
staggered. After drilling, clean out the inside with some type of reamer (a
drill bit will do), and then polish the inside with a strip of green 3M pad
chucked into a drill. The 1/16-in. holes work better than four 1/8-in holes.
I'm getting LOADS of foam.
This device came about after forgetting to turn up the cold water into my
wort-chiller, and pitching way too hot. Now, I always know the temp. Also,
with the shut-off valve, I can fill my hydrometer flask, turn it off, feed
my ready to pitch yeast to accomodate them to their new home, turn it off,
and then fill the fermenter. IOW, I like it.
I'll chime in quickly on the open fermenter thread: I'm using a 7 1/2-gal
budwizer keg (1/4-barrel), with an opening cut in the top to accept a
commercial stockpot lid. At kraeusen, I remove the lid, and take a hunk of
styrofoam (I've got a piece laying around) and lay it on top of the
keg--resting on the upper chine. Open fermentation without stuff floating in
it, and plenty of air flow.
Favorable brewing to all of you on the east coast, hope you all got some
extra brewing in!
Harlan
======================================================================
Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can
<blacksab@siu.edu> To justify God's ways to man.
Carbondale, IL
--A.E. Houseman
======================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 96 12:17:58 EST
From: toml@fcmc.com (Tom Lochtefeld (Risk Mgt))
Subject: homebrew outlets in Stamford, CT area??
Hello,
Does anybody know of any Homebrew stores/outlets in the
Stamford/Norwalk area of Connecticut. I have tried the yellow pages
with no avail.
Please reply to toml@fcmc.com.
Sincerely,
Tom Lochtefeld
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 13:01:53 -0500
From: gi572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul D. Wiatroski)
Subject: CO Safety
I just wanted to share my experience brewing this past
weekend. I do my brewing in the garage and use a
Cajun Cooker type propane burner. I fired up the burner
to heat up my mash water and while it was going I
decided to check the CO in the garage with my new
CO detector (Nighthawk 2000). Now the burner was
was going full blast (nice blue flame) so I thought
there would be minimal CO produced. Well after
about 2 min. the detector was reading a level of
22, after 4 min. the level jumped to 40 and after
6 min. the level was over 60 (enough to set off the
alarm). I had the main garage door opened about
4 inches, no other doors or windows were open. After
the alarm went off, I opened the door which leads
into my backyard thus providing cross ventilation.
The CO level dropped to zero in about 5 min. and
stayed at zero. This just serves as another warning to
make sure you have adequate ventilation when
brewing in confined areas.
.
Paul Wiatroski (brew often and brew safely)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 9:12:00 -0600
From: "Larry.Carden" <Larry.Carden@pscmail.ps.net>
Subject: Frozen Wyeast packs
I followed with interest the recent thread about preserving yeast in
the freezer with glycogen. Anyone know if Wyeast adds such a substance
to their liquid yeast packs? Or whether Wyeast is still viable after
freezing or being slightly frozen?
A friend of mine was appalled to find Wyeast packs in a somewhat
frozen state (firm and crunchy) in the fridge of a local homebrew
shop. I believe he was wise not to purchase Wyeast in such a state. I
wonder how often this can happen in transit without us knowing about
it?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:26:14 -0500
From: Bill Rust <wrust@csc.com>
Subject: PEM
Just a thought....
In HBD #1937, Rich Hampo queried the collective regarding Personal Emission
of Methane (PEM). Couldn't that be plainer stated as Flatulence
Accompanying Rigorous Tippage (you KNOW that acronym). BTW, I think it does
have something to do with ingestion of live yeast. There have been numerous
cases of people who have flatulence problems attributable to ingestion of
yeast. I think there was even a show on TV (60 min. or 20/20) about it (no
accounting for my taste in prime time programming). In the show, the
afflicted parties changed their diet (i.e. omitted the offending foodstuffs,
gads!).
If it really bothers you, you could perhaps try filtering your beer (which
most of the commercial breweries do). The economical solution might be to
invest in an extra can of Lysol.
Cheers.
-------------------------------------------------------
Bill Rust, Master Brewer |
Jack Pine Savage Brewery | Im Himmel es gibt kein bier,
Shiloh, IL (NACE) | War es wir trinken hier!
-------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Rust | "Knowing is not enough; we must apply.
Senior Member Technical Staff | Willing is not enough; we must do."
CSC, Fairview Hts, IL | -GOETHE
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:39:07 -0500
From: RUSt1d? <rust1d@swamp.li.com>
Subject: Blowoff yeast
In Papazian's 2nd book, he say that blow off yeast from the primary
fermentor is the most flocculant. This yeast may be collected for
re-pitching as follows:
Extra Equipment:
2-hole gum stopper (#11?)
Mayonnaise jar
Procedure:
Sanitize everything. Attach the blow off hose from the carboy to the 2-holed
stopper. Put the airlock in the other hole. Put the stopper in the jar.
(Ascii cheese to follow): H=Blow off hose A=Airlock
HHHHHHHHHHHHHH
_H_ H
| | H
/ \ H
/ \ H A
/ \ H A
| | _H___A_
| | _\H____/_
| | | H |
| | | |
| carboy | | jar |
=========== =========
This allows the blow off yeast to be collected in the jar while remaining
sanitary.
A simpler method is to put two airlocks together with a bottle stopper and
place atop carboy. The lower airlock will fill with yeast and remain sanitary.
It works good for me so far. Comments?
John Varady
Big Belly Homebrew - It'll grow on you.
------------------------------
Date: 17 JAN 96 14:51:06 EST
From: PWhite@os.dhhs.gov
Subject: Fwd: apologies and lager question
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - Original Message - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
To: smtp[hombrew@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com]
From: Phil White@ASMB.BUDG@OS.DC
Date: Wednesday, January 17, 1996 at 2:44:54 pm EST
Attached: None
Hi all,
Sorry my mailer bounced the last HBD back, I've always hated it when that
has happened to other people, and now it happened to me! I guess I
shouldn't have subscribed to windev-l then gotten myself snowed in
(although I did make it to the BURP meeting!)
Now on to a brewing question. I brewed a helles bock this last weekend I
used wyeast #2206. I popped the slap pack and let it swell at about 60
degrees F. The pack didn't swell as quickly as I had thought it would, so
I didn't have time to make a starter before brew day. I know it would be
better to have put off brewing until a proper starter is made but with a
six month old baby and low spousal approval, these things have to be
scheduled well in advance. Anyway, I pitched the yeast when the wort temp
came down to about 60 deg. and put the wort in my basement expecting it
to be about 55 deg F. The next day when I checked the ambient temp in the
basement was 40 deg. and the fermometer read 45 deg. There was no activity
at all in the wort, not even the usual fine lines of bubbles you sometimes
get when you under pitch like this. I moved the wort to the attic, and
checked the temp, at about 60 deg. I will check it again tonight. My
question is how long should I give this yeast before pitching dry yeast?
I have a packet of whitbred ale yeast for just such emergencies. Since
the fermometer temp was higher than ambient, I suspect my yeasties may
have been reproducing. Any opinions or suggestions on what I should do
with this batch are more than welcome.
Phil White
pwhite@os.dhhs.gov
------------------------------
Date: 17 Jan 96 13:56 PDT
From: ROTH.TER@SEATTLE.VA.GOV
Subject: hops etc
Chris Strickland (HDB1917) wonders what to do with the hops vines
after the harvest. If the cold (what cold there is in Fla) hasn't
shriveled the vines by now, cut them back to the ground. The idea is
that in the first year, keep the vines pruned down to 4-5 feet, so all
the growth occurs in root/rhizome structure, then the second year the
plants will be very strong, and shoot up to 20-25 feet. But don't
worry (are my vines ruined?)----if you keep their feet moist, and feed
them lots of rich fertilizer, they'll produce a nice crop for you.
A recent thread mentioned an old quote from js, something about
sparge temperature vs mash temp. I made a batch of dunkelbock last
weekend, and forgot to 'mash out'---I just started sparging after a 90
minute mash. (the Belgian ale I washed down lunch with must have addled
my brain) My sparge bucket is insulated with foil-coated bubble wrap, and
the sparge water went in at 180 degrees F. I use a Phil's sparge arm,
and keep about an inch above the grain bed. Thinking that the hot water
would raise the temp of the mash to something like mash-out temp, I put
my thermometer in and was surprised to find that the mash never got above
160 dF, and the wort coming out stayed in the low 140's throughout the
sparge. So ---I bet js is right, you could sparge with 200 degree water
and the mash would not get above 180 or so. I think next batch I'll
try that (after mashing out, of course) and see just how much cooling
takes place between the lauter tank and the mash. It could be that the
Phil's Rotating Arm (tm), which is copper and delivers a pretty fine
spray of droplets, cools the hot water by as much as 20dF.
Unrelatedly---I would like a good recipe for a Thomas Hardy clone.
Had a bottle of the 1993 last week and it was chewily superb!
************************************************************************
days since last rain: 0 (2 inches yesterday)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:09:01 +-1100
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh@crl.com.au>
Subject: lager open ferments
Jeff Frane wrote:
>Tracy Aquilla writes:
>>Do you also open-ferment lagers (if you make lagers)?=20
>[snip]
>I haven't done any lagers in quite a while, but I suspect it
>would depend. I've used a few strains that seemed to produce
>a distinct krausen, and they might work. I *believe* I've
>seen photographs in old texts of lager breweries that did
>their primary open, but don't quote me on it.
A local (excellent) microbrewery, George IV Inn at Picton, in NSW, =
Australia, makes only lagers. All of the beers are primary fermented in =
a single tiled room with 6 open fermenters. I do not remember the =
fermenter size, but it looked around 1000l each. The brewer gave us a =
tour and had no problems in letting us into the fermenting room, where =
we even climbed up a ladder and stuck our faces about a foot or so from =
fermenting beer! There was a massive krausen on the particular batch we =
saw. The room is kept around 7-8C. After the krausen drops, the beers =
are pumped into secondary serving tanks beneath the bar where they are =
lagered for 8 weeks before serving.
The brewery was designed by a now deceased German brewmeister.
Two principal beers are made, a lager and a bock. The lager suffers from =
excessive diacetyl. The superb bock probably has a similar amount, but =
the strong flavour effectively masks it, as the taste is imperceptible. =
Most attribute the high diacetyl levels to the lack of individual =
temperature control on each fermenter (diacetyl rests are impossible). =
This thread has made me wonder that perhaps the open fermentation has a =
significant contribution to the high levels of diacetyl in the lager. =
But why not the bock?=20
The beers are also kegged and delivered by truck (only recently =
refrigerated) to another hotel in Sydney (the Australian Hotel in the =
Rocks). The lager diacetyl levels here are even higher, making it almost =
undrinkable (sob). Fortunately the bock is generally still excellent at =
this second venue.
Comments?
Andy Walsh.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1939, 01/19/96
*************************************
-------
