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HOMEBREW Digest #1890
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/11/22 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1890 Wed 22 November 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Results: 10th Annual November Classic (Robert Paolino)
Fermentation vessel seals (William H. Kitt, Jr.)
RE IBUs (Tim Fields)
re: When is a boil a boil? (Jeff Renner)
What's Your Point Al? ("Palmer.John")
Weissbier (Hettsmac)
Partial mash ("Dave Draper")
TCDD (A. J. deLange)
the collective (Stephbrown)
Brew Your Own Magazine (Douglas A. McCullough)
dispensing pressure (Ronald J. La Borde)
Priming Amount (Bob Surratt )
Any wine makers out there? (Kris Thomas Messenger)
Sankey boiler pickup tube (Tim Laatsch)
Young's Yeast ("James Hojel")
All-graining (Norman Pyle)
Boiling ("Philip Gravel")
Removing metallic neck labels off Watneys (Greg Tucker)
Removing metallic neck labels off Watneys (Greg Tucker)
Re: When is a boil not a boil? (Spencer W Thomas)
Grain Mills and Sam Adams ("MSG Richard Smith")
Boiling Stone Followup ("NORM R SMITH")
Propane alternatives (Matt_K)
Info Request: TriClamp (R) vs "Mini Sanitary" ("Fleming, Kirk Mr.")
Sam Adams redux (Alan P. Van Dyke)
Survey Results. (Russell Mast)
Manifold Slit Results (THaby)
Re: all grain/partial mash (Douglas R. Jones)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 18:08:03 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert Paolino <rpaolino@execpc.com>
Subject: Results: 10th Annual November Classic
The Tenth Annual November Classic BJCP Homebrew Competition
Madison Homebrewers and Tasters Guild
12 November 1995
The competition gave _all_ judges a "Best of Show" judging experience in
that entrants place their entries, identified and judged by style, as they
choose in three categories: This, That, and The Other Thing. This year
we also added a "Just Plain Good Homebrew Category," judged solely on
drinkability and whatever other criteria the JPGH judges chose to apply.
Best of Show: GEORGE FIX
2nd BOS: ROBB HARRIS
Total entries: 51
Thanks to all the entrants and judges, and thanks to the Wine and Hop Shop
(Madison) and HOPUNION, USA for their support and sponsorship.
THIS beers:
1st: Bob Paolino, Madison (American Pale) 37
2nd: Randy Thiel, Madison (American Pale) 31
3rd: Don McCreath, Maple Bluff, WI (Classic-style fruit) 31
Hon: Mark Lovejoy, Madison (Munich Dunkel) 30
THAT beers:
1st: Bill Rogers, Madison (Dunkelweizen) 39
2nd: Jim Connors, Lake Geneva, WI (IPA) 36
3rd: Dale Orth, Milwaukee (Barley Wine) 32
Hon: Randy Thiel, Madison (English Brown) 30
THE OTHER THING beers:
1st: Bob Paolino, Madison (Specialty) 37
2nd: Nathan Kanous, Madison (Specialty) 32
3rd: Jim Connors, Lake Geneva, WI (ESB) 32
Hon: Anders Bergstrom/Peg Dainty, Madison (Classic Style Herb) 30
JUST PLAIN GOOD HOMEBREW (not judged by style criteria)
1st: George Fix, Arlington, TX (American Pale) 40
2nd: Robb Harris, Madison (Belgian Strong) 38 (2nd BOS)
3rd: George Fix, Arlington, TX (Specialty) 37 (BOS)
Hon: Gerald Poss, Green Bay, WI (Classic Dry Stout) 30
CIDER/MEAD (only 4 entries--only one ribbon awarded)
1st: Mark Lovejoy, Madison (Sparkling Melomel) 38
Hon: Bob Paolino, Madison (Still Cider) 35
Hon: Mark Lovejoy, Madison (Sparkling Melomel) 33
Hon: Bryan Bingham, Mount Horeb, WI (Still Cider) 28
And eight brewers stepped up to take the Great Dane Challenge....
The winner will be assistant brewer for the day (probably handling
spent grain :-) ) late in January to brew a scaled-up batch of the
winning homebrew. The GDC beers were judged by Brewmaster Rob LoBreglio
and MHTG President Mitch Gelly. Watch the Great Dane handpump in
early February for a Columbus dry-hopped pale ale! The brewer
might even treat you to a pint. :-)
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Madison rpaolino@earth.execpc.com
Winner of the 1995 Great Dane Challenge
Look for that 50IBU dry-hopped pale ale at the
Great Dane--on beer engine--in early February 1996!
Columbus was a Hophead!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 1995 18:09:45 -0500 (EST)
From: wkitt@melpar.esys.com (William H. Kitt, Jr.)
Subject: Fermentation vessel seals
In some private e-mail, we have been discussing various vessels used
for fermentation and how they are sealed. My primary fermenter, a
food grade plastic bucket, has a very tight fitting plastic lid. So
tight fitting in fact that I need to use Wesson oil on the rim of
the bucket to get the lid in place. Another HBDer also using a
plastic bucket, has a much looser fitting lid. As for carboys, some
homebrewers use very tight fitting rubber stoppers with an airlock.
Some use the orange carboy cap with twin extruded orifices, which
seems to be a very loose fit in comparison to the rubber stopper
method. But the looser fitting carboy cap method eliminates the
possibility of a stopper being forced into the carboy and thus
the ensuing expletives and efforts to remove the stopper.
Understand that no one has experienced a bad batch attributed
to these different methods, but I was left wondering why
these differences exist, under what circumstances the homebrewing
community prefers to use one method over another, by using one
method versus another, are we setting ourselves up for failure,
could our lives (at least with respect to homebrew attempts) be made
easier my using one method over another, are there other sealing
techniques to which we haven't even been exposed, etc. etc.?
Any and all comments/teachings on this subject would be greatly
appreciated.
Bill, wkitt@melpar.esys.com
------------------------------
Date: 18 Nov 95 06:12:06 EST
From: Tim Fields <74247.551@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE IBUs
In #1886, joep@informix.com (Joe Pearl) writes about IBU calculations:
>I have two different methods of calculations, both give different answers.
>Is there a definitive, accurate method of calculating IBUs that someone can
share?
No "definitive" method. There are various methods and they each have
their supporters. People I have talked with use whichever they feel
comes closest to their brewing results - most have used either Tinseth's
or Rager's. Personally I use Tinseth's new numbers. I like them because
they take into account the Gravity of the wort. The hop FAQ has the
calcs needed to calculate them.
I used to calculate 6 IBU ratings using 3 factors (Tinseth, Rager, and
Garetz) with 2 calculations each (one from hop FAQ and one from Brewers
Resource catalog). The ratings DID range all over the map. For example:
chinook 3oz 60 mins 12% alpha
EKG 2oz 15 mins 5%alpha
yielded these IBUs (without taking gravity into account):
IBUs> 166 146 130 173 152 136
Factors> Rager Tinseth Garetz Rager Tinseth Garetz
(old) (old)
|-----------------------| |------------------------|
Brewers Resource Cat. HOP FAQ
That's a range of 173 to 130, and an average (mean) of 147.
The same hop schedule run thru Tinseth's "new" numbers yields these IBUs:
OG> 1040 1050 1060 1070
- -----------------------------------------
IBUs> 155 142 129 118
I use these calcs for whole hops. If using pellets, I add 15%.
Of course all these numbers are only as good as my spreadsheet, so blame
me of they are off.
"Reeb!" Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA
timf@relay.com (non-brewing time)
74247.551@compuserve.com (weekends)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 95 09:46:23 -0500
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: re: When is a boil a boil?
In HBD 1887, Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com> quotes "Dan Wilson"
<DWILSON3@EMAIL.USPS.GOV>:
> > I started brewing. When is a boil a boil? When I
> > get close to boiling, (this is with extract) I can
> > hear what soundslike a large group of marbles rioting.
and comments:
> I've noticed this phenomenon myself. My friend Jake
> says it's got something to do with some physical changes
> taking place, uh, somewhere. I forget. This happens
> just below boiling temperatures in most liquids. It's
> not yet "boiling" though.
There is really no mystery; what is going on is really very simple.
The
wort in the bottom of the kettle is hotter than that above it. It
boils, bubbles of steam (gaseous phase of dihydrogen monoxide) are
formed, they rise, reach the cooler wort, and condense back into into
the liquid phase, never reaching the top for you to see. Eventually,
the entire wort reaches 100C, steam bubbles don't condense and the rise
all the way to the surface for you to see.
The "rioting of marbles" is called "bumping," and is caused by
superheated (100+C) liquid water that has not changed phase into the
gaseous phase due to a lack of a nucleation point. When a "cell" of
this does change phase (boil), it does so all at once with a
mini-explosive expansion, producing shock waves, which we hear. A way
to produce smoother boils (without bumping) is to use boiling "chips."
I use a few bottle caps from which I've removed the plastic liners and
bent in half so I don't mistakenly bottle with them later (I've done
it). These provide nucleation points for the phase change with the
result of smoother boils.
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: 18 Nov 1995 13:42:52 U
From: "Palmer.John" <palmer@ssdgwy.mdc.com>
Subject: What's Your Point Al?
Al Korzonas wrote:
>Don't forget that there's also an article in the Great Grains Special Issue
>of Zymurgy which makes it *less* scientific by simply splitting a single mash
>between 6 different types of lauter tuns. The results were quite enlightening.
>Aren't I a tease? The point is, comparing these two articles, that although
>you can model the theory using math, in real life things sometimes work a
>little differently or the differences may not be as big as you think.
>Incidentally, the drawings in the Brewing Techniques articles look hauntingly
similar to ones I drew (in ascii art) and posted to HBD on October 26, 1992.<
Al, that was a good experiment you wrote up for the Great Grains Issue. I found
it quite interesting. But what is your point with your last statement?
"look HAUNTINGLY SIMILAR..." What is your point in posting this to the HBD?
If you will remember, we exchanged email on this very subject. The day after I
submitted my article to Brewing Techniques, I was browsing at The Brewery Web
Page and found your 1992 post listed there in the Technical Library. I
IMMEDIATELY emailed you and mentioned the similarity of the drawings to what
was going to appear in BT. You Thanked me for notifying you of the coincidence
and said that you would have indeed been upset to have seen those illustrations
without any reference to your previous post, assuming that they were the
source. I explained that I had not joined the HBD until the following spring
and had never seen your post until (today). I thought we ended the 4 post
exchange with the understanding that I had not plagiarized your work. Do you
wish to re-visit that discussion via your statement above, or is it merely a
misunderstanding over a poorly worded afterthought?
Respectfully,
John
John J. Palmer - Metallurgist for MDA-SSD M&P
johnj@primenet.com Huntington Beach, California
Palmer House Brewery and Smithy - www.primenet.com/~johnj/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 17:11:02 -0500
From: Hettsmac@aol.com
Subject: Weissbier
Dear Weissbier Fans,
I am looking for some tips about all grain Weissbier. I want to get that nice
banana fruity aroma like in Schneider Weisse or Ayingers. I have read Eric
Warner's book but feel his recipes (decoction mash) are a little too
complicated. But may be it's necessary to do it that way.
My first attempt came close but I am not quite satisfied, it's too phenolic.
I used 6 lb wheat malt, 4 lb 2 row british barley (6 row was not available),
1/2 lb flaked barley, 1 oz Northern (90 min), 1 ozHallertauer 10 min and
Wyeast bavarian wheat.
Mashed in with 2.5 gal 60 C hot water, hold at 50 C for 30 min, then
increased by adding a gal boiling water and heating to get to 68 C. Hold
there until Iodine test negative (3h !!!), sparged boiled, cooled (20 min)
pitched. Bottled after 4 days using 1 and 1/4 cup of corn sugar.
Direct replies to "hettsmac@aol.com" are welcome
Robert Hett, Hudson, Mass
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 10:15:29 +10
From: "Dave Draper" <david.draper@mq.edu.au>
Subject: Partial mash
Dear Friends, hate to be picky, but...
In HBD 1884 Dan Wilson asks:
>And finally, when grain is used in the recipe (like crystal, or
>chocolate malt) is that what's referred to as a partial grain
>batch?
To which Kurt Dschida replied:
>Yes. Most often referred to as a "partial mash".
Sorry Kurt, not so. If it is a mash then there must be base malt
undergoing conversion. When crystal, chocolate, etc are being
steeped for addition to an extract batch, it is simply
that--steeping. Around here, anyway, we call that "extract plus
specialty grains." Partial mash means you get part of your
*fermentables* from mashing; crystal and roasted malts do not
contribute much in the way of fermentables. This is also referred
to as a "mini-mash". The size of the mash can range from quite
small (just a kilo [couple of pounds]) to extensive. In my case, I
mash between 3.5 and 4 kg (7.5 to 9 lb) and use a kilo or less (2.2
lb or less) of extract for gravities of 1050-1060; for lesser OG's I
need no extract at all. Don't know what that makes me...
Cheers, Dave in Sydney
"Life is short; grain is cheap." ---Rich Lenihan
- ---
***************************************************************************
David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia
Email: david.draper@mq.edu.au Home page: http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~ddraper
...I'm not from here, I just live here...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 19:31:40 -0500
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: TCDD
Tom Krivek writes (in #1886): "Only 0.0000000000005 g (!!!!!) of TCDD will
have toxical effects on a human being." That's 5E-13 grams or half a pico
gram. With a molecular weight of about 320 thats 1.6E-15 moles or about 25
million molecules; 5E-9ug/kg in a 100 kg human. The numbers I have indicate
that the TCDD acute lethal dose in lab animals (doesn't say whether that
thats MLD or LD50) is 0.6ug/kg in guinea pigs and 5000ug/kg in hamsters
with humans supposed to be at the less sensitive end of this range thus the
lethal dose for me would be close to half a gram (please don't work it out
- the beer gut really isn't all that huge). Thus I am skeptical that an
exposure 12 orders (or 9 if I'm more of a guinea pig than a hamster) of
magnitude less than this would be too threatening. I'm guessing that either
a couple of 0's must have been slipped in there somehow or the number came
from expert testimony for the plaintiffs in some class action suit. I, for
one, shall continue to struggle on through life unencumbered by fears of
dioxin poisoning unless a herbicide plant opens in the vicinity.
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 20:17:21 -0500
From: Stephbrown@aol.com
Subject: the collective
Brian Pickerell Wrote:
>Or post goofy, half-baked answers, and get corrected by the
>"collective"--I'm starting to hate that term. ;-)
You will be assimulated. Resistance is futile.
Stephen Brown
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Nov 1995 21:32:06 -0600
From: dmccull@alabama.com (Douglas A. McCullough)
Subject: Brew Your Own Magazine
Dear Fellow HBD-ers:
I recently posted praising plans for making your own counter-pressure
bottle filler. Unfortunately, I misstated the name of the magazine that
carried the plans.
They are in the November issue of Brew Your Own magazine which can be
reached at http://www.ns.net/BYO, at 800/900-7594 or e-mailed at
BYO@byo.com.
Sorry for the confusion. (I do not work for the magazine, but I do enjoy it.)
Doug McCullough
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 95 12:00:00 -0600
From: rlabor@lsumc.edu (Ronald J. La Borde)
Subject: dispensing pressure
Algis R Korzonas writes:
>therefore you have pressure drop. HOSE LENGTH AND DIAMETER *DO* MAKE
>A DIFFERENCE IN THE TOTAL AMOUNT OF PRESSURE DROP FROM THE TANK TO
>THE FAUCET.
Yes, I fully agree. It is an easy thing to observe, you can do it with a
minimum of difficulty yourself. I had recently brewed and pressurized two
beers with the regulator set at about 30 psig. One keg happened to have a
one foot length of hose to the tap - the other had about seven feet of 3/16
diameter hose. Both beers had been sitting in the fridge for about a week.
I noticed MUCH more foam from the shorter hose than from the seven foot
hose. So I simply swapped the hose/tap gizbobs from one beer keg to the
other. No surprise to see the greater amount of foam upon dispensing was
still from the longer length hose.
Pardon me for rambling on but this simple test/demonstration is from the
most basic classic method of investigation known as the Scientific Method.
>From day one eons ago in grammar school science we were all taught the
quintessential method of go/no go testing. Do a test and observe the results.
I think that so many questions can be easily answered by doing simple test
and observe
procedures. Homebrewers should put this tool in the top drawer of their
toolkit.
Happy brewing
***************************************************************
* Ronald J. La Borde | *
* Work (504)568-4842 | "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both *
* Home (504)837-0672 | get dirty, and the pig enjoys it." *
* Metairie, LA | *
***************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 10:12:46 -0800
From: bobbyrat@ix.netcom.com (Bob Surratt )
Subject: Priming Amount
I have a Bock beer sitting in my secondary that I'll be bottling soon.
My question is: Are Bock's supposed to have low carbonation? I was
going to bottle with 1 1/4 cups DME, but after trying a Bock the other
day, it seemed to not be very carbonated.
Would 1 1/4 cups be too much? Should I maybe use 3/4 cup?
I'd appreciate it if someone would respond.
Thanks,
Bob Surratt
Orangevale, CA
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 11:13:06 -0800
From: Kris Thomas Messenger <kmesseng@slonet.org>
Subject: Any wine makers out there?
Let's face it... brewers are 'hands-on' folks. Beer doesn't very readily
make itself. Wine on the other hand occurs spontaneously. Squeeze it, wait
a while and then drink it. None the less, it is an interesting pursuit - as
long as you have lots of patience. Perhaps easier to make but much longer to
appreciate. And you must make much larger quantities since you only make it
once a year. I've made a total of <3> vintages so far. It's fun but beer
produces results much faster and lends itself to much more variety and
experimentation.
Anyway, whenever I do a web search for wine making, I come up with maybe a
faq or two but have not yet found anything resembling HBDigest. So... does
anyone out there know of a home wine making digest? Mostly, I find pages on
the web for people selling wine or talking about where to go wine tasting
but not making wine.
Any help will be appreciated. Thanks.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Messenger, Los Osos, California, USA *** kmesseng@slonet.org
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 14:44:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH@kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: Sankey boiler pickup tube
Hi All,
I have a question regarding design of a pickup tube in the bottom of a
converted Sankey boiler. Initially, I was planning to use a very small
circular slotted copper manifold to strain hops out during transfer of the
chilled wort to the fermenter. However, I like to use pelletized hops and
soon began to realize that the manifold hop-back is probably only effective
with leaf hops. My thoughts are that a hopback-type strainer would be
unnecessary if using strictly pellets, due to the cylindroconical design of
the keg bottom. Specifically, a simple pickup tube from the fittings
at the side of the keg to the very bottom of the keg may actually facilitate
removal of the hop pellet debris *prior* to transfer of the wort---in much
the same way yeast sediment is removed from a cylindroconical fermenter.
Will this work? Any experiences, comments, criticisms, suggestions welcome.
Thanks and I'll summarize if interest warrants.
Tim
*==============================================================================*
| Timothy P. Laatsch | laatsch@kbs.msu.edu |
| Microbiology Grad Student | Aspiring All-Grain Homebrewer |
| Michigan State University/KBS | Check out my new brewing page on the Web! |
| Kalamazoo, MI | http://kbs.msu.edu/~laatsch/beerhome.html |
*==============================================================================*
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 95 05:22:55 UT
From: "James Hojel" <JTroy@msn.com>
Subject: Young's Yeast
To all you yeast ranchers: I just finished the last drop of a Young's Winter
ale. Holly butterscotch!! I've never had butterscotch flavors so prominent
and spectacular. I want some. What strain of yeast do they use (it did not
taste like any Wyeast strains), or better yet, where can I get my hands on
some?
If it is not commercially available, I'm willing to pay for a culture.
James
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 15:04:15 -0700
From: Norman Pyle <hophead@ares.csd.net>
Subject: All-graining
Ken Schwartz wrote:
>All-grain is not an end in itself but a means to an end.
I think I'd say "All-grain IS an end in itself, as well as a means to an end.
There is something mystical about converting grain into sugar, and then into
beer. Makes me feel so connected, so powerful, but also so much in awe of
nature (which can pretty much make beer without me).
>You can make
>hideous all-grain beers and you can make phenomenal extract beers. But
>give
>it a try if you can.
Agreed, and I've made hideous all-grain beers, but I've also made hideous
extract beers. Sigh. BUT, I have more fun making all-grainers, good or
bad, than extracters.
Norm "Dances with Enzymes" Pyle
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end
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 18:32:27 -0600 (CST)
From: "Philip Gravel" <pgravel@mcs.com>
Subject: Boiling
===> Russell Mast comments about boiling:
> > From: "Dan Wilson" <DWILSON3@EMAIL.USPS.GOV>
> >
> > While brewing this weekend a question came up that has bugged me since
> > I started brewing. When is a boil a boil? When I get close to boiling,
> > (this is with extract) I can hear what sounds like a large group of
> > marbles rioting.
>
> I've noticed this phenomenon myself. My friend Jake says it's got something
> to do with some physical changes taking place, uh, somewhere. I forget.
> This happens just below boiling temperatures in most liquids. It's not yet
> "boiling" though.
As the bottom the the kettle, the liquid is heated to the boiling point
by the heat source and bubbles of vapor begin to form. As these bubbles
encounter cooler liquid and the vapor condenses and the bubbles collapse.
It is the collapsing of the vapor bubbles that gives rise to this noise.
I would not consider the liquid to be boiling until the bubbles reach
the surface and one observes the rolling action.
- --
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel@mcs.net
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 16:55:37 -0800
From: Greg Tucker <gtucker@moa.com>
Subject: Removing metallic neck labels off Watneys
Does anybody know how to remove the metallic labels off the Watney's 22 oz.
bottles? I love the bottles because they are so strong; however, taking the
label off is a PITA. I've used screwdrivers, putty knives, etc. These take
a ton of time and don't work very well. Any suggestions?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 16:55:37 -0800
From: Greg Tucker <gtucker@moa.com>
Subject: Removing metallic neck labels off Watneys
Does anybody know how to remove the metallic labels off the Watney's 22 oz.
bottles? I love the bottles because they are so strong; however, taking the
label off is a PITA. I've used screwdrivers, putty knives, etc. These take
a ton of time and don't work very well. Any suggestions?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Nov 1995 23:17:25 -0500
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: When is a boil not a boil?
Russell Mast writes:
> If you have a thermometer, remove the grains around 170F. If not,
> remove them whenever you think you've gotten enough of the
> flavor/color/body stuff from the grains.
A good visual/auditory indication of 170-180F is that a layer of steam forms
above the water, and it starts to make noise (that pre-boiling "roar" :-).
Works for me, anyway.
=S
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 95 08:56:15 EST
From: "MSG Richard Smith" <QR1661@trotter.usma.edu>
Subject: Grain Mills and Sam Adams
Thought I would add this to the grain mill thread. I wanted a JS Mill
but at the time could not afford it ($100+). Instead, I got a good
(read $56) deal on a lonely phillmill gathering dust in my local
homebrew shop. The shop's big seller seemed to be the corona type.
Anyway, it takes me about 45 minutes to mill 20lbs of grain on my
philmill, and the mill does a terrific job adjusting to different grain
sizes. This helps a lot since I normally use 3-5 different types of
grain and they often require a different setting for the right crush.
Drawbacks are (1)it needs a better chute for collecting the grains, and
(2) it doesn't look as good as the JS Mill IMO. My $0.02.
Regarding Sam Adams, I think it's great I can get an alternative to
megaswill just about anywhere and usually in the form of a Sammy. But
it's ususally only the Bosten Lager that's available; I hope the Stock
Ale becomes as widespread. That's my $0.04 for this digest.
Jack from West Point
*******************************************************************
Richard J. Smith MSG, DMI
qr1661@trotter.usma.edu x4804
72154.516@compuserve.com WH5112
*******************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 95 07:53:07 cst
From: "NORM R SMITH" <NRSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com>
Subject: Boiling Stone Followup
First I'd like to thank everyone who responded to my question about
Boiling Stones (HBD#1884.)
I had a couple people ask exactly what Boiling Stones were, so I will
explain: They are used in Chemical applications (mostly R&D that I
know of) to bring solutions to a quicker boil without it being too
vigorous (I know - very simplistic answer - I'm trying to save
bandwidth.)
To summarize the answers I received, though: It seems people use a
number of things as boiling stones with varying amounts of success.
Among them were:
sections of copper tubing
non printed bottle caps
glass or ceramic disks
marbles, and
small (1/4") river rocks
Most of these seemed to work fairly well for people, although a couple
people complained of the boiling stones (or whatever they used)
retaining heat and caramelizing their wort. It seems to me (after
conferring with a colleague of mine - happy Shane?), that if one were
to use just a few pieces of some very light, porous material (ceramic
perhaps?) one would get the best results. There would be decent
amounts of bubbles coming from them (to control the boil and prevent
the dreaded boil-over), and they would tend to drift around with the
currents in the kettle due to their light weight (which would prevent
caramelization.)
Just a summary of the answers I got and my $.02 worth
Thanks again all,
Norm
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 10:30:50 est
From: Matt_K@ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Propane alternatives
Kirk writes:
>Over the course of a few years, I have shorted out a switch, ruined a
>receptacle and the enamel top on my electric stove. The repair cost
>for the switch alone would have more than paid for an outdoor propane
>setup. Mother Nature, in Northern Maryland, seems to know how to
>Rain on every weekend of the &^$@# year, which severely limits
>outdoor brewing possibilities (no garage, either...). With this out,
>I am currently looking for an alternative, but have not found a
>viable one yet. Unfortunately, my house is all electric and has no
>natural gas hookup, which would be my first choice....
I had the same problem last year, and living in Montreal, It snows
half the year. My solution to this was to install a 3500 watt hot
water heater element in a keg and to plug the thing into my dryer
outlet in the basement. This setup works great!! The whole thing
cost less than $100 cdn (I did scrounge some parts..) and was money
well spent. I'm out of the kitchen (read I can make as big a mess as I
want) and I get nice fast boils. Some people may speculate about
scorching the wort, but I can tell you that this is not a problem.
There is some residue on the heater element but it's not brurned and
wipes off ithe a rag during cleanup.
Matt
In Montreal
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 95 08:50:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk Mr." <FLEMINK1@CISF.AF.MIL>
Subject: Info Request: TriClamp (R) vs "Mini Sanitary"
In a tubing catalog listing stainless fittings available as part of
custom tubing assemblies are Tri-Clamp fittings and a second sanitary
type referred to simply as "Mini Sanitary". It appears these Mini fittings
clamp together like Tri-Clamps do, and maybe seal on the
face with an o-ring instead of a beaded gasket. They look to be
about 1" OD.
Is anyone familiar with them and with the availability of matching
stuff such as butterfly valves, etc?
KRF Colorado Springs
flemingk@usa.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 10:10:22 -0600
From: alan@mail.utexas.edu (Alan P. Van Dyke)
Subject: Sam Adams redux
Greg responds in HD1888:
>>But I think that the people on the digest who dislike S/A products do
>>so because of Mr. Koch's business practices. It is not size either.
>>While I don't think we should get into it again, S/A could have just as
>>much impact on the beer-buying public without the lawsuits and without
>>"buying" votes in the 80s GABF and without misleading ads.
>I disagree completely. Jim Koch is a marketing genius who loves good
>beer. It never fails to amaze me when I travel out to the "hinterland"
>(i.e., areas where they've never heard of a brewpub or micro) that I can
>find Sam Adams beers anywhere I go. If S/A didn't market their beers
>the way they do they wouldn't be available coast to coast and out in the
>boonies. And as one who grew up with an advertising copywriter parent,
>in my opinion Jim Koch's done nothing "misleading" in any of the ads
>I've seen.
Does this include outright lying? The fellow who claims to be Jim Koch on
the radio is actually an actor. The recipe that he claims is his
grandfather's is actually a purchased recipe from a beer consultant.
Claim to some of his rewards have gotten him in trouble with the awarders.
To me, "misleading" is a nice way to put it.
>This is America - and this is the way you market products in
>America if you want them to sell. If you don't like the way it's done
>that's OK, but you probably wouldn't be very successful in retailing,
>either.
But that doesn't mean one can't gripe about it, either.
>Keep in mind who they're competing with - and the competition's
>firmly entrenched and enormous distribution networks (not to mention
>their million $ ad budgets selling image and sex).
In the prospectus of their stock offerings, they say that Boston Beer Co.'s
competition is Sierra Nevada, Pete's, & Anchor, and other craft-brewers. I
don't remember A/B, Coor's, or Miller being mentioned. This is basically
Koch's own admission.
>Jim Koch is trying to marketing to everybody, including the swill crowd -
>and in doing >so, in my opinion, has done more to expand America's beer
>consciousness than
>anyone else - Fritz Maytag and Pete Slosberg included. Remember - the
>more persons that become aware of good beer through Jim Koch's efforts,
>the greater the market becomes for good beer from all sources.
I agree completely with you on this. He has raised awareness, but couldn't
he have done it more honestly? It doesn't cost more to be honest, & it can
be more impressive, if done right.
What about the lawsuit issues? Koch is filing lawsuits left & right
against just about anyone he can. He threatened to sue a brewpub here in
Austin for serving Sam Houston Austin Lager. Koch cliamed to own the
trademark on Sam Houston. He also keeps harrasing Boston Beer Works, a
small Boston brewpub, because he claims he owns the rights to the name of
Boston. The courts keep laughing & turning him down, but he keeps
appealing, draining the finances of this small business.
As far as the quality of his beers, most of them are nice, clean, less than
full flavored facsimiles of the style. I think they make great transition
beer, & will recommend them as such, but I've enjoyed the Rogue & Anchor
products much more as being more flavorful, and more challenging.
Mind you, I don't boycott Sam Adams products. I have a bottle of the
Cranberry Lambic sitting in my fridge, & I like it, even if it is
mislabled. But every time I buy a bottle of their brew, I keep in mind
what's up in Boston. Lot's of big companies maintain the same practices.
Koch gets a lot of hell because the craftbrewing industry is generally more
honest & congenial than that.
Well, that's enough for now. Time for a beer.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_
Alan P. Van Dyke "A beer a day
Technical Staff Assistant II keeps the
Preservation Dept. cardiologist away."
The General Libraries -me
University of Texas at Austin alan@mail.utexas.edu
-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 10:43:04 -0600
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Survey Results.
A few weeks ago I posted asking for people to e-mail me telling me their
educational backgrounds for a little survey. I got 98 responses, a couple of
which included information on additional brewers. (One guy responded for his
son who brews with him, another for his wife and brew-buddy.) So, my total
n is 101. Not bad. I'm not sure what proportion of the population here that
is, and I don't want to claim any pretense to "accuracy" - this was for fun.
Nonetheless, I want to do this as well as I can.
A few notes. I have lumped everyone into categories. Some people responded
with their full life stories, how much they brew and how often, whether they
have kids, what they liked best about school, what they majored in, who they
were dating, etc. etc. Other people responded with little one-liners like
"BS Mathematics" or something similar. Many people didn't mention areas of
study, many did. Many mentioned whether or not they were still in school.
I will probably go back and report figures for these later. Most people were
pretty clear. There were two people who's main education was not in the US
and I fit them into categories as best I could.
The sample. The sample was, as I said, 101 voluntary respondents. All of them
homebrewers, all (save 3) of them net-connected, all of them reading HBD that
particular issue. I suspect that net-connected homebrewers have more degrees
than non-net-connected homebrewers, and more than net-connected
non-homebrewers, but I have no data to back that up. It is possible that there
is a response bias in that people with more education were more (or less?)
likely to respond to the survey. There's nothing I can do to control that in
this setting. Them's the breaks. Some of you may have lied. Shame on you.
One person mentioned that it might be interesting to know the sex of the
various respondents. There was only one respondent that identified herself
as a woman, and one brewer whose wife also brews responded for a total of two.
Many, but not all, of the other respondants either explicitely identified
themselves as male or had masculine names. No respondants (beside the two
mentioned above) had feminine names. Some people didn't give their names
and had non-specific e-mail addresses. I may report the exact numbers for
this later.
I must point out that none of your identities will be revealed and that I
won't sell any of your addresses to direct-mail advertisers. (Don't you hate
that when that happens?) If anyone wants a copy of the responses with all
the identifying information deleted, I can do that, but it would take a few
minutes to get together.
Without further ado, the general results. This is in a "last year completed"
kind of way.
Some High School, no diploma: 1 *
High school diploma, no college: 0
Some college : 4
College Graduate, no further: 25
College Graduate, additional classes: 23
Master's Degree, no further: 19
Master's Degree, additional classes: 14 **
PhD: 14
Law Degree: 1
Medical Degree: 0
* one person didn't finish high school, but had a PhD anyway. That was
counted as a PhD. One other person claimed to have been currently enrolled
in high school, but (from other statements made) might not have been totally
honest. (The level of maturity in the response was kindergarten, but he said
11th grade, so I say 11th grade...)
** This was more of a catch-all category. Several respondants had 2 master's
degrees. Several had no master's but more than 4 years in a PhD program,
which I also counted in this category.
Most respondants thought this was interesting, as did I. A few were curious
or even suspicious about my motives. Well, this was my motive, just making
this post. Yay. Several people, including those with advanced degrees,
made the point that there's a lot about life you can't learn in school, and
I'd like to echo that sentiment.
Degrees don't make you smart - dogmatically agreeing with me makes you smart.
:-)
Hope this has been interesting.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 95 8:40:02 CST
From: THaby@swri.edu
Subject: Manifold Slit Results
Hello all (Hola Schwartz),
I would like to thank everyone who responded to my post about the slits
in the copper manifold. Most everyone was in agreement as to the placement
of the slits; 1/4 to 1/2 inch apart faced down in the tun. I'll be doing
my first all grain over the holidays (gulp) and if it turns out good I'll
let you know about it, if not...well...
Thanks again.
Tim Haby/N5YEB
Rio Medina, Texas
thaby@swri.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Nov 1995 11:19:59 -0600
From: djones@iex.com (Douglas R. Jones)
Subject: Re: all grain/partial mash
In HBD #1887, Al wrote:
>As for partial mashing, it is only slightly less time consuming (you don't
>have to boil the wort down from 7-8 gallons to 5 gallons and you only need
>to take 3 or 4 gallons of runnings in stead of 7 or 8) and takes only
>slightly less kettle capacity than allgrain (you don't need a 10 gallon
>pot, you can manage with a 7 gallon one). If somone is looking to go beyond
>extract, I would recommend going allgrain and skipping the partial mash
>step.
Interesting. I have been doing partial mashes (or at least what *I* call
partial mashes) for six months or more now. While it does a a bit more time
to the process it really hasn't been that much. I use the same equipment
that I do for extract only recipes. I have a 21 qt enamel on steel kettle
that I use on the electric stove (boy is it getting wimpy too). I mash 5 lbs
of grain in my old 16 qt kettle by heating up 1.25 qts of water/lb of grain
to strike temp. Add the grain and stir until everything is well incorporated
and the temp levels out. Around 155F - 158F. Then it goes into a warm oven
for an hour. I take it from the oven put it back on the stove and add heat
to raise the temp to mash out stirring continuously. Then into the lauter
tun and sparge with 2qts of water/lb of grain. This goes into the boil
kettle, add the extract (since evrything is already warm) and crank on the
heat stirring until I get a boil. Easy. The hour in the oven can be used for
lots of things, like feeding the kids lunch, or sanitizing. I think it has
improved my beers. Just another data point for those considering the move to
all grain.
Doug
- --------------------------------------------------
'I am a traveler of | Douglas R. Jones
both Time and Space' | IEX Corporation
Led Zeppelin | (214)301-1307
| djones@iex.com
- --------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1890, 11/22/95
*************************************
-------
