Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #1888
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/11/20 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1888 Mon 20 November 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: overnight mashing, carbonation (Gordon Baldwin)
DME priming (DONBREW)
re: Helping Santa (Tirebiterz)
Wort Oxygenation (Bill Marks)
Homebrew Digest #1883 (November 14, 1995 (Greg Newberry)
40-60-70 Mash Schedule (Kirk R Fleming)
re: copper manifold slits (PatrickM50)
(no subject) (wildcelt)
Boiling ("Philip Gravel")
RE: ftp.stanford file translation (Eric Gorger)
Brita Filters and Ph (WattsBrew)
Summary: IBUs and Hopped Extract (tfields)
Boston Beer/SA Summary (tfields)
Shipping HB and trivia (Michael Kerns)
Beer Crawl (Ken Jackson)
Re: MotoMaltMill (hollen)
PET bottles (John Girard)
Re:re:Marcato grain mill (Jason Goldman)
Re: Son of Frankenbrau (Jeff Benjamin)
Wheeler's peculiar Old Peculiar (Jay Weissler)
Re: Boiling Stones for Wort? (Bob Sutton)
Torrified wheat substitute? (Brian Yankee)
Son of FrankenBrau (DHatlestad)
Mailing Beer (Stephbrown)
yeast starters ("Wallinger, W. A.")
Black & Tan (Martin Hatlelid)
Grain milling (Neal Christensen)
Inverted Carboy Fermenter setups? (Eric Marzewski)
Grain milling (Neal Christensen)
I'll Take a Sam Adams, Please (WALZENBREW)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! November 5 thru November 11: The digest
!!! will be unmanned! Please be patient if
!!! you make any requests during this time
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
*
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have
ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service,
send an e-mail message to ftpmail@gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
"help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 15:26:07 PST
From: Gordon Baldwin <gbaldw@usin.com>
Subject: Re: overnight mashing, carbonation
Responding to some earlier posts about overnight mashing. I have done
about 30 overnight mashes with great success. You need to have decent
insulation and the temperature will not drop more than 15 or 20 degrees
in 8 to 10 hours. The mash will not get too thin from a long rest at low
temperatures because the enzymes denature. After a couple hours at 150
degrees there are no more enzymes left. If the temperature drops now
down to 120, it does not now start a protein rest. If you want a thin
beer, you need to start at 120 deg F and work up, with long rests at the
lower temperatures.
> From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471@mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
>
> And now for my question regarding carbonation. I've seen it stated many
> times on the HBD that naturally carbonated beer has better carbonation
> than beer that is forced carbonated in kegs, but I've never seen an
> explanation. If I remember correctly, many of you beleive that the
> carbonation from priming bottles or kegs gives finer bubbles than the
> coarser, soda-pop type bubbles that you get from force carbonating.
>
I have found that the bubbles are coarser in forced carbonated batches
right after carbonating. After about a week the bubbles are nice and
fine. I cannot tell which is which after a couple of days. I attribute
it to the stabability of beer and stabability of the partial pressures.
It is probably a zen type thing.
- --
Gordon Baldwin
gbaldw@usin.com
Olympia Washington
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 19:15:38 -0500
From: DONBREW@aol.com
Subject: DME priming
Okay this is another one of those "been covered a million times, but I
didn't care then" kind of posts. How much did I under prime a 5 gal. batch
by using 5 tbs. of DME? Will it ever carbonate? Or, will I be able to get
away with calling it a British "Real Ale", as was my intent?
TIA,
Don
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 19:07:05 -0500
From: Tirebiterz@aol.com
Subject: re: Helping Santa
Dave Ebert wrote:
<<Secondly, if Santa gets me s JS mill I'll want to motorize it.>>
Rather than trying belts & pulleys, it might be simpler for you to find an
appropriately sized "gear motor" (motor w/integral reduction gears). Check
your yellow pages for "Electric Motors - Dealers & Repair" and try to find a
used gear motor of around 1/16 HP & a load speed of 40 to 60 RPM (or whatever
the mill maker recommends) & either runs in the right direction or is
reversible. I paid $20 for mine. The dealer should also have the right
sleeve to allow you to connect motor & mill shafts. Belt & pulley setups
require quite a bit of space, mounting, proper line-up, protective shrouding,
etc, compared to a motor that already has the desired output. A b&p will
also put a perpendicular thrust on the mill shaft which may or may not be an
issue. Of course, you need to mount everything rigidly & provide a switch
close at hand in case of a jam due to gravel in the malt, your necktie
getting in the hopper, etc.
I hope Santa treats you right,
Gregg Howard
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 19:48:42 -0700
From: Bill Marks <Bill_Marks@ids.net>
Subject: Wort Oxygenation
The other day I was in a hardware store and saw a Bernz-O-Matic Oxy-Propane
torch rig for home welding and brazing. It was about $50. The bottle of
oxygen that came with it was the same size as the typical propane bottle for
a propane torch except thatit was bright red. The regulator that screwed
onto the bottle was EXACTLY like that pictured for the "Oxygenator" rig
being advertised in Zymurgy. The refill bottles were only $7. I tried to
call Bernz-O-Matic and Weller to see if they sell just the oxygen regulator
as a replacement part. No 800 number was available for either. I was
astonished that neither Weller or Bernz... has an address or phone number
for their company on the box or in the instructions for the brazing kits. I
would suggest that that means they hold their customers in contempt, but I
wouldn't want to be sued.
I have two questions:
Has anybody adapted one of these oxygen bottles for wort oxygenation and if
so, what did you use for a regulator?
Does anybody have a phone number for Bernz-O-Matic or Weller (Cooper Tool Co)?
TIA
Bill
------------------------------
Date: 15 Nov 95 23:01:43 EST
From: Greg Newberry <71022.2300@compuserve.com>
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1883 (November 14, 1995
Tom,
>> I've been using this technique (overnight mashing) for the last few
>> batches. In general, I use a fair amount of Cara Pils and other
>> caramel malts, but in judging I usually don't hear many "not enough
>> malt" comments.
How much to you use to keep the unfermentables up? I have been thinking of
trying it, but I don't want to thin of a beer.
Thanks
Greg Newberry
71022.2300@compuserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 21:45:57 -0700
From: flemingk@usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: 40-60-70 Mash Schedule
In #1884 Tim Fields <74247.551@compuserve.com> asked:
> I've read and reread Dr. G. Fix's postings concerning a 40 60 70 (deg
> centigrade) mash schedule, and am still unable to nail down whether this
> schedule is a "good thing" or a "bad thing" or "either way" for use with
> highly modified malts. Did this discussion ever settle down firmly in
> any camp?
The original post recommended a 40-60-70 schedule for highly modified
malts, claiming a marked improvement in yield with the 40C rest for about
20-30 minutes. He recommended an additional 50C rest for moderately
modified (lager) malt, but went on to say he noticed no significant yield
improvement for the moderately modified malts using the 40C rest. The
bottom line: pale ale gets a 40-60-70, pale lager a 50-60-70.
Finally, his experimental technique was to do 20-30 minutes at 40C (for
pale ale malt, again), then a total of 60 minutes for the 60 and 70C
rests. Proportion the 60 minutes between 60 and 70C rests to control
attenuation:
"The ADF is greatly influenced by the times spent at 60 and
70C. E.g., 15 mins. at 60 followed by 45 mins at 70 will typically
drop the ADF into the low 70s. The reverse will increase it into the
mid 80s. For my ale strain spending at least 15 mins. at 60C is
crucial for it greatly increases the maltose/maltotriose ratio."
I have no idea what ADF and RDF are, other than Apparent DF and Real DF--I'd
like to know. Also, it's MY OPINION George Fix did not intend that all
brewers should change their mash schedules to *exactly* 40, 60, and 70C rests
to the exclusion of nearby temperatures as the only means of controlling the
product. Reducing the variables of the mash to just ONE: the time proportion
of the sacch rest conducted at 60C vs 70C, really provides a cool way to get
a handle on what's going on with the process. The original post appeared in
the Thursday, 18 Aug 94 HBD.
KRF Colorado Springs
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 00:14:21 -0500
From: PatrickM50@aol.com
Subject: re: copper manifold slits
Tim Haby queries:
>>>>>>
Ola Brewers, I'm in the process of building a copper manifold for my lauter
tun and I have some questions.
1. How many slits per inch?
2. What orientation are the slits?
3. In the lauter tun do the slits face up or face the bottom of the tun?
<<<<<<<<<
1. My rectangular-with-a-crosspiece manifold sits in the bottom of a 7 gal
rectangular cooler and has 1/8" slit spacing along the tube farthest from the
outlet, 3/16" spacing along the central tube and the sides and 1/4" spacing
in the tube closest to the outlet.
2. Slits are cut with a jig saw to just past the interior wall and
perpendicular to the tube.
3. Slits face the bottom of the cooler.
The copper tubes are simply slipped into elbows and tees when I'm ready to
mash. They are not welded together so they're easy to clean.
Seems to work pretty well. Hope this helps.
Pat Maloney, Rohnert Park, CA (patrickm50@aol.com)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 00:55:31 -0500
From: wildcelt <wildcelt@p3.net>
Subject: (no subject)
HELP
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 00:50:41 -0600 (CST)
From: "Philip Gravel" <pgravel@mcs.com>
Subject: Boiling
===> Dan Wilson about boiling:
> While brewing this weekend a question came up that has bugged me since
> I started brewing. When is a boil a boil? When I get close to boiling,
> (this is with extract) I can hear what sounds like a large group of
> marbles rioting. But no bubbles on the top. About 5 minutes later Mr.
> Bubble shows up. The recipe called for removing the grains when
> boiling commenced. So when did it? I've also seen that grain bags
> should never be boiled. Why's that?
Boiling grains will cause tannins to be extracted from the husks. This
will give your beer an astringent taste. You should avoid heating grains
above 170^F.
> And finally, when grain is used in
> the recipe (like crystal, or chocolate malt) is that what's referred
> to as a partial grain batch?
No, not really. That's adding specialty grains. A partial mash is
when you mash grain such as pale ale malt. Mashing means heating at
150-156^F to achieve starch conversion. You then add malt extract to
make up the difference. A partial mash recipe would have 4-5 lb of
pale ale or lager malt and 3.3 lb of LME or 3 lb of DME.
===> Norm Smith asks about boiling stones for wort:
> Got a quick ? for everyone: For years I've used different types of
> boiling stones in various Chemical applications. Would it be possible
> to use something similar when boiling Wort? I would imagine that if
> it were possible, one could control the boil a bit more, and avoid
> boil-over.
>
> Any ideas?
Yes. Go to a well a kitchen supply place or a Corning outlet. Look of
a Pyrex disks they sell that about 2.5" in diameter. You put it in the
pot to pervent boil overs.
- --
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel@mcs.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 01:31:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Eric Gorger <egorger@uofport.edu>
Subject: RE: ftp.stanford file translation
Dan,
I use a little shareware product called "Drop Stuff" along with "Stuffit
Expander" and then open as a simple text file.
These two products are available at: "http://www.umich.edu/~archive/mac/"
OR "gopher://sumex-aim.Stanford.EDU/11/info-mac" (less the "" of course).
I think the entire cost was around $15 to register both copies, but don't
quote me on that cost.
Good Luck,
Eric Gorger
P.S. If this doesn't work for you, send me a private E-mail, I'll
download whatever you're looking for, decompress it, and either mail you
the text or attach the file in Word Perf. 3.0 or equivalent.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 08:01:04 -0500
From: WattsBrew@aol.com
Subject: Brita Filters and Ph
For anyone interested in the subject, I just performed a little test. My
water department report says that my average ph is 7.9. I tested the water
directly out of my Brita filter and the ph is approx 5.0. The test strips I
used were narrow range (from 4.6 to 6.2). I bought them in my local homebrew
shop.
Bill Watt in Clarence Center, NY
Wattsbrew @aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 10:33:39 EST
From: tfields@relay.com
Subject: Summary: IBUs and Hopped Extract
Hello All,
Thanks for the multiple replies to my query about how to determine the
IBUs in a can of hopped extract. All referred to al article published
in the Zymurgy magazine special hops issue, 1990. Jeff McNally
emailed me a chart from the article - it follows. As it was posted
once, I assume it's safe to post again.
My only remaining quesiton: M&F Stout has 13.75 HBUs per can. Chris "The
Coddfish" Coddington (coddfish@aol.com) translates this to approx 61 IBUs
(thanks, Chris). Does using one can of this in a 5 gal batch result in a
61 IBU batch?
-Tim
--------
Hopping Rates of Malt Extracts
This info is useful for determining how much bitterness you can expect from
hopped extracts. The information was obtained from the Zymurgy magazine special
hops issue, 1990.
DRY OR PKG. HBU/ HBU/
NAME SYRUP SIZE CAN LB
===============================================================
EDME LTD.
Superbrew Gold Bitter s 4 12 3
" " Lager s 4 8.5 2.1
" Stong Ale s 4 12 3
Dogbolter s 4 9 2.25
Arkells Bitter s 4 15 3.75
" Lager s 4 15 3.75
Superbrew Light s 3.3 9 2.7
" Dark s 3.3 9 2.7
" Pale Lager s 3.3 7.5 2.3
" English Bitter s 3.3 9 2.7
" Stout s 4 9 2.25
Brewcraft Trad. Bitter s 4 15 3.75
Brewcraft Pilsner Lager s 4 11 2.75
PAINE'S PLC.
John Bull Hopped Light s 3.3 9 2.7
John Bull Hopped Amber s 3.3 10 3
John Bull Master Class Bitter s 4 18 4.6
John Bull Master Class LAger s 4 13.5 3.4
John Bull American Beer s 4 4.5 1.4
John Bull American Lite s 4 5.3 1.6
BREWING PRODUCTS LTD.
Ironmaster LAger s 4 6 1.5
" Stout s 4 10 2.5
" Pilsener s 4 8 2
" Bitter s 4 12 3
" Brown Ale s 4 6-7 1.5-1.75
" Pale Ale s 4 7 1.75
" Belgian Dark s 4 10 2.5
" Canadian Ale s 4 10 2.5
" Belgian Light s 4 9 2.25
" Export Bitter s 4 10 2.5
Telfords Nut Brown Ale s 3.3 8 2.4
" Pilsner s 3.3 8 2.4
" Stout s 3.3 12 3.6
" Porter s 3.3 7 2.1
" Wheat Beer s 3.3 9 2.7
" LAger 3.3 9 2.7
" Export Ale 3.3 8.5 2.5
" Trad. Ale 3.3 10 3
" Extra Pale Ale 3.3 7 2.1
GLENBREW LTD
Light Hopped s 3.3 8.5 2.6
Amber Hopped s 3.3 11 3.3
Dark Hopped s 3.3 8.5 2.6
Pilsner s 3.3 7 2.1
Scotch Bitter s 3.3 11 3.3
Scottish Lager s 3.3 11 3.3
80/-Ale; Heavy s 3.3 8.5 2.6
70/-Ale; SPecial s 3.3 7 2.1
Brewmart Imp. Danish Pilsner s 3.3 11 3.3
" " Dutch Lager s 3.3 9 2.7
" " Spec. Pilsner s 3,3 12 3.6
" " Australian s 3.3 8.5 2.6
" " Dry s 3.3 9 2.7
SPECIALTY PRODUCTS INTERNATIONAL LTD.
Light s 3.1 7.5 2.3
Amber s 3.1 7.5 2.3
Dark s 3.1 7.5 2.3
Pilsner s 3.1 7.5 2.3
Octoberfest s 3.1 7.5 2.3
BOck s 3.1 7.5 2.3
MUNTON & FISON PLC
Hopped light s 3.3 7.5 2.3
Hopped Amber s 3.3 12.5 3.8
Hopped Dark s 3.3 12.5 3.8
Old Ale s 3.3 12.5 3.8
LAger s 3.3 7.5 2.3
Premium s 3.3 12.5 3.8
Stout s 3.3 13.75 4.2
American Light s 3.3 5.75 1.7
Pilsner s 3.3 7.5 2.3
Canadian Ale s 3.3 7.5 2.3
Spraymalt Hopped Light d n/a 2.3
" " Amber d n/a 3.5
TOM CAXTON, LTD
Super System Bitter s 3.3 8 2.4
" " LAger s 3.3 8 2.4
" " Yorkshire s 3.3 11 3.3
" " Pilsner s 3.3 9 2.7
" " Export s 3.3 11 2.4
Standard Bitter s 3.3 11 2.4
" Lager s 3.3 8.5 2.6
The following is an attached File item from cc:Mail. It contains
information that had to be encoded to ensure successful transmission
through various mail systems. To decode the file use the UUDECODE
program.
- --------------------------------- Cut Here ---------------------------------
begin 644 rfc822.txt
M4F5C96EV960Z(&)Y(&-C;6%I;"!F<F]M(&EN.#-B+FYP="YN=7=C+FYA=GDN
M;6EL#0I&<F]M(&UC;F%L;'EG0&EN.#-B+FYP="YN=7=C+FYA=GDN;6EL#0I8
M+45N=F5L;W!E+49R;VTZ(&UC;F%L;'EG0&EN.#-B+FYP="YN=7=C+FYA=GDN
M;6EL#0I296-E:79E9#H@8GD@:6XX,V(N;G!T+FYU=V,N;F%V>2YM:6P@*#DT
M,#@Q-BY31TDN."XV+CDO.30P-#`V+E-'22D-"B`@("!F;W(@=&EM9D!R96QA
M>2YC;VT@:60@2D%!,3(P.#8[(%1U92P@,30@3F]V(#$Y.34@,#DZ-3@Z,S(@
M+3`U,#`-"D1A=&4Z(%1U92P@,30@3F]V(#$Y.34@,#DZ-3@Z,S(@+3`U,#`-
M"D9R;VTZ(&UC;F%L;'EG0&EN.#-B+FYP="YN=7=C+FYA=GDN;6EL("A*969F
M*0T*365S<V%G92U)9#H@/#$Y.34Q,3$T,30U."Y*04$Q,C`X-D!I;C@S8BYN
M<'0N;G5W8RYN879Y+FUI;#X-"E1O.B!T:6UF0')E;&%Y+F-O;0T*4W5B:F5C
A=#H@4D4Z/B!)0E5S(&%N9"!(;W!P960@17AT<F%C=`T*
end
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 95 14:28:47 EST
From: tfields@relay.com
Subject: Boston Beer/SA Summary
Hello All,
Well I received many responses to my question about Boston Beer "going
public", and my thanks to you all. Most referred to an offer to
purchase 33 and only 33 shares at a fixed price. Not having seen such
an offering before, I called the number this morning (1 800 495 2739)
and received a recorded msg (paraphrasing) that their "Consumer
Offering" (whatever that means, but that part is a quote) is
oversubscribed and as a result, they can't send me the offering
materials at this time [click].
Guess I'll pick a prospectus out of the trash at a local pub ;-)
For those of you that did respond and get your applications in: where
will your stock be traded? OTC? NASDAQ? NOWHERE?
"reeb!" Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA
timf@relay.com (non-brewing time)
74247.551@compuserve.com (weekends)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 07:43:40 -0700
From: mck@yar.cusa.com (Michael Kerns)
Subject: Shipping HB and trivia
In response to Mark Peacock's inquiry as to shipping beer and in respect to
certain legal ramifications, I, uh, have this friend, yeah yeah that's it, a
friend who just moved from Chicago to Salt Lake (last remaining stronghold
of 3.2 beer). In order to remain in touch with his homebrewing friends he
has successfully utilized a hard sided plastic cooler (12 pack size). The
bottles are wrapped in adhesive backed bubble-wrap (compliments of Crate and
Barrel) and wedged into the cooler. Any remaining space is packed with
rolled up towels. So far this method has resulted in zero breakage sent by
both UPS and U.S. postal service 3rd class. Nobody's ever torn open the
package (then again I have an innocent looking wife) at the point of
shipping.
As an aside, I fell the need to toss in my 2 cents with all the Sam Adams
bashing going on and general crotchetyness on the HBD. I thought the whole
reason for learning more about beer was so we can each drink and /or brew
the beer we enjoy, whether we make it ourselves or buy from a brewer. The
HBD has been immensely helpful to me as a homebrewing newbie-I hate to see
it bogged down with griping and negativity.
Salud!
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 10:31:26 -0500
From: ken@memtec.com (Ken Jackson)
Subject: Beer Crawl
Hello To All,
I've heard rumors of a beer crawl this weeked
in the D.C. area. Anyone have any ino? E-mail
me at kjackson@memtec.com The weekend is almost
upon us.
TIA,
KJ
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 07:43:32 PST
From: hollen@vigra.com
Subject: Re: MotoMaltMill
>>>>> "Mark" == Mark E Thompson <markt@hptal04.cup.hp.com> writes:
Mark> I used an 8" pulley on the mill and a 1 or 1.5 on the 1700rpm 1/4 hp
Mark> motor. The problem was that the shaft on the mill is 3/8" (i think)
Mark> and the smallest pulley that i could find was 1/2". I had to come up
Mark> with a shim arangement. Otherwise the thing works great. I did have
Mark> to increase the size of the hopper and put a new screen over the rollers
Mark> though.
A better solution would be to buy a 1/2" x 3/8" bushing made for this
purpose. It worked fine on my pulley. I got it at a local industrial
hardware store.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 08:57:27 -0800 (PST)
From: John Girard <jungle@hollywood.cinenet.net>
Subject: PET bottles
Ken Schwartz wrote about PET bottles and carbonation concerns. Just
wanted to drop a quick note about PET and gas permeability. This thread
was taken up on the HBD a year or so ago, and the conclusion was that one
does not actually lose carbonation after several weeks (has anyone's
unopened 2-litre bottle of coke ever gone flat?), but that the
plastic eventually allows air to pass across the membrane. The result,
rather than flat beer, is oxidized beer. There was little consensus on a
timeline for this process, however -- some suggested they had conditioned
beer for a couple of months in PETs with no troubles. Everyone seemed to
agree that long term storage (more than a couple of months) was probably
not a good idea in PETs.
I also seem to recall that no one quite explained how O2 passed into the
beer (due to osmotic pressure?) but CO2 did not escape by the same process
except to hypothesize that the larger CO2 molecule could not pass the
barrier, while smaller O2 molecules could...
-John Girard in L.A.
(the artist formerly known as sprmario)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 10:47:33 -0700
From: Jason Goldman <jason@bluestar.cnd.hp.com>
Subject: Re:re:Marcato grain mill
I missed Matthew's post, but I did see Charles Brault's post about the
Mercato grain mill. I've had one of these for a couple of years and
I've been pretty happy with it. I haven't made the modification that
Charles did (to get a better placed lock position for the rollers)
because I haven't had that problem. The bulk of the grain I use crushes
pretty nice as is and the rest crushes great when the knob is placed
between settings. I have done some other modifications, though. I used
some aluminum sheet to make a larger hopper (with a *much* wider slot)
and a chute to replace the old container. I haven't noticed any flavor
(or memory) problems from the aluminum;'>. I also motorized it with an
old food processor motor that I got from a friend.
Jason
jason@bluestar.cnd.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 10:50:56 MST
From: Jeff Benjamin <benji@hpfcbug.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Son of Frankenbrau
KennyEddy@aol.com brings up some questions about Frankenbrau(tm) caps
and PET bottles:
> So what's new? Couple of things. I have seen comments here & elsewhere
> concerning PET-bottled beer shelf life. Seems PET is gas-permeable such that
> a bottle will go flat after several weeks.
Isn't true. If it were, you'd have a lot of angry grocery store owners,
because all the soda-pop on their shelves would be going flat.
PET is oxygen permeable, but the rate of diffusion, I think, is slow
enough that bottles should be okay for at least a few months. Even then,
you probably run more risk of a little oxidation than having flat beer.
If you're not planning on long-term storage - which I'm usually not if I
put something in PET - you should be fine with PET bottles. I typically
use a Frankenbrau cap with a 2l PET bottle filled from a keg as a way to
transport beer to parties, etc. It seldom stays in the plastic for more
than a few days.
In fact, if the beer is to be consumed immediately, why bother with
CP-filling or Frankenbrau caps at all? The local breweries/brewpubs
here will just fill you up a 1/2- or 1-gallon jug, to go, right out of
their taps. Works fine if the beer will be drunk up in a few hours. I
often take beer to parties in an old 1-gallon juice jug filled from the
keg, no CP-filler involved.
This doesn't address needs for bottling from the keg for, say
competitions, but then you couldn't use a Frankenbrau cap for a contest
anyway.
> ever notice that look on your
> friends' faces when you give them a sixer of your brew and start to explain
> the decanting process -- "There's WHAT in this beer? YUK!!"
Just tell 'em it's a "hangover cure -- lots of B vitamins" and comes free
in each and every bottle!
- --
Jeff Benjamin benji@fc.hp.com
Hewlett Packard Co. Fort Collins, Colorado
"Think! It ain't illegal yet." -- George Clinton
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 12:39:27 -0600
From: jay_weissler@il.us.swissbank.com (Jay Weissler)
Subject: Wheeler's peculiar Old Peculiar
The other day I asked for advice on invert sugar and maltose syrup
(many, many thanks to those who replied). The reason I asked was
these 2 ingredients are called for in Wheeler's Old P clone (in
BYORAAH). He doesn't use any other sugars (aside from these two and
those created in the mash). In other words...NO TREACLE. So what
gives? Every poster here, including recently Ken and Dave report on
using treacle. When I taste the original, I think that I taste
treacle. Wheeler doesn't use any. Has anyone tried the Wheeler Old P.
clone?
Anyone want to comment?
jayw
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 95 13:46 EST
From: Bob Sutton <BSutton_+a_fdgv-03_+lBob_Sutton+r%Fluor_Daniel@mcimail.com>
Subject: Re: Boiling Stones for Wort?
Text item: Text_1
On Tue, 14 Nov 95 11:51:03 cst
"NORM R SMITH" <NRSMIT@ccmail.monsanto.com> inquired:
> Got a quick ? for everyone: For years I've used different types of
> boiling stones in various Chemical applications. Would it be possible
> to use something similar when boiling Wort? I would imagine that if
> it were possible, one could control the boil a bit more, and avoid
> boil-over.
> Any ideas?
Norm,
I had the same thought. I've thrown in a handful of bottle caps (used, of
course) into the work with good results. The boiling is certainly more uniform,
however, I'm still a bit nervous during the first few minutes until I get my
heat input balanced. Don't turn your back on the boil. :)
Bob Sutton
Fruit Fly Brewhaus
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 14:30:19 -0500 (EST)
From: Brian Yankee <byankee@husc.harvard.edu>
Subject: Torrified wheat substitute?
In my quest for the perfect English pale ale I've come accross many
recipies that call for torrified wheat. None of my local homebrew
shops have it, and they all suggest substituting flaked wheat.
Last night while grocery shopping, I was struck by the idea of using
Puffed Wheat cereal for the torrified wheat. Except for the addition of
some B vitamins I don't think that Quaker adds anything to the cereal.
They do use a preservative on the packaging, though.
So, am I completely insane for even considering this, or am I on to
something?
TIA for your *kind* comments, etc.
Brian Yankee
byankee@fas.harvard.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 14:58:44 -0500
From: DHatlestad@aol.com
Subject: Son of FrankenBrau
I tried this gadget, too. The problem is that I couldn't get enough of the
rubber smell out of the valve stem. I found that the aroma made it's way into
the beverage. I tried boiling and soaking in soda water for weeks without
success. Any clues?
Cheers,
Don
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 15:03:43 -0500
From: Stephbrown@aol.com
Subject: Mailing Beer
Russel Mast says:
>As far as I know, it is not legal to ship US Postal Service.
Well, the law may have changed, but with consent of the US and international
postal services, I mailed a few bottles to Austria. The postal service said
that it simply had to be packed well. (It was pretty freakin expensive,
though!)
If you have any conserns about sending through the US mail, I would call them
and ask. If they say 'fine' then you don't have to worry about it. If they
'no, you can't mail beer', then you can make up your mind if you want to take
your chances or not.
That's my 3.4c (hey, inflation)
Stephen Brown
------------------------------
Date: 16 Nov 1995 12:08:12 PST
From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA@chevron.com>
Subject: yeast starters
From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade)
To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR
Subject: yeast starters
Date: 1995-11-16 13:58
Priority:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Trying all kinds of new things this week... I have a starter in progress. I
plan to make a barleywine. I've had a few batches with high final gravities,
even with vigorous oxygenation, and thought I'd try starters. So below is
the procedure I am following based on comments from this forum and from
other references. In some cases I'm winging it, and am looking for feedback
(it's amazing how much more I learn by giving something a try). My specific
questions appear at the end.
By the way, for those of you who are not doing starters now, this has been
*extremely* easy. I plan to make this a routine part of my brewing
procedure.
Yeast Starter Procedure
0. Sanitize everything before starting: flask, stoppers, airlock.
1. Measure water and begin to heat to a boil.
2. Measure 1 oz malt extract per cup of water for about a 1.040 starter.
3. Add 2 hop pellets to the malt.
4. Once boiling, remove the water from the heat to add the malt and hops.
5. Resume heating once the malt is fully dissolved.
6. Boil for 15 minutes.
7. Cool the pot in an ice bath or freezer to room temperature.
If you are starting from a yeast culture:
8. Open the flask and flame the lip.
9. Add the liquid yeast culture to the flask.
10. Add the room temperature wort to the flask.
11. Stopper the flask and shake vigorously to aerate the wort.
12. Place an airlock on the flask.
13. Set in a dark place to ferment.
If you are stepping up a yeast starter:
8. Open the flask and flame the lip.
9. If flask space is limited, decant the liquid from the dregs.
10. Add the room temperature wort to the flask.
11. Stopper the flask and shake vigorously to aerate the wort.
12. Place an airlock on the flask.
13. Set in a dark place to ferment.
Questios for the collective:
1. When stepping up, should the contents be re-aerated?
2. When stepping up, should the ;iquid be decanted?
3. If not, does aerating introduce the potential for aldehydes?
4. If not, should subsequent steps simply double the volume each time?
5. Am I flaming the lip at the right step?
6. When starting a lager yeast, should it ferment at room temperature?
7. If so, will the resulting batch be estery?
8. How much starter to I need for a barleywine with 15# LME in 5 gallons?
9. IMSR?
10. any other comments?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 12:30:39 -0800
From: martunes@unix.infoserve.net (Martin Hatlelid)
Subject: Black & Tan
>>AB makes an interesting claim on the Black & Tan label. This *was* the name
>of
>>their Porter at the turn of the century.
>Last I heard, "Black & Tan" meant a Harps/Guiness combo.
The Harps/Guinness combo is a Half & Half, a Black & Tan is a
Smithwicks/Guinness.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths.
-- Steven Wright
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 13:52:05 -0700
From: nealc@selway.umt.edu (Neal Christensen)
Subject: Grain milling
Hi all - here's my limited experience with grain milling:
I started with a Corona hand mill (well actually a cheap imitation) - no
good. Then I tried a friends real Corona mill - better, but not real good.
Tried one of those three roller motorized pasta mills next - great idea, but
didn't work. Then I found the Malt Mill - I think it was the only roller
mill available then. I bought the adjustable one. I have found the Malt
Mill to be an acceptable method for grinding my grain. I haven't tried the
other roller mills now available so I can't compare them. I am not real
happy with the adjustment ability of the Malt Mill. It is not a fine
adjustment - I have found that I can only grind barley malt in a very narrow
range of the adjustment. Also the small set screw that hold the adjustment
cam in place is too small - I can't tighten it by hand enough to hold the
adjustment, and it is easily bent with pliers. This is not a serious
problem though - I found the setting that works well and I keep it there. I
normally don't grind other grains, so I can live with this. I also
considered motorizing the Malt Mill, but have not done so. First, I think
you would need a slow motor. Cranking by hand, I sometimes go too fast for
the rollers' ability to feed and get an accumulation of grain to one side of
the top of the rollers - and that side quits feeding through. The only fix
for this problem is to completely empty the hopper and start over. Second,
it just doesn't take very long to run 20 to 30 pounds of grain through the
mill by hand. Instead of motorizing, I soon realized that what I really
needed was a longer crank handle than the stock one. So, I replaced the 5
1/2" handle with a 9" handle that I made out of aluminum stock of the same
dimensions as the original. Wow what an improvement! and I can't see any
disadvantage to the longer handle - unless it voids my warranty. Hey Jack IMWV?
Neal Christensen
Missoula, MT - A Place Sort Of
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 16:01:28 -0500 (EST)
From: Eric Marzewski <emarzews@nova.umuc.edu>
Subject: Inverted Carboy Fermenter setups?
Eh there brew fans,
Anyone tried any products out there which allow you to ferment/condition
with a carboy upside down? Any luck? Was it safe, clean (ie: repitching
yeast and overall cleanliness) and easy? Do tell....
Thanx for any thoughts!
Cheers,
Eric Marzewski
emarzews@nova.umuc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 15:04:22 -0700
From: nealc@selway.umt.edu (Neal Christensen)
Subject: Grain milling
Hi all - here's my limited experience with grain milling:
I started with a Corona hand mill (well actually a cheap imitation) - no
good. Then I tried a friends real Corona mill - better, but not real good.
Tried one of those three roller motorized pasta mills next - great idea, but
didn't work. Then I found the Malt Mill - I think it was the only roller
mill available then. I bought the adjustable one. I have found the Malt
Mill to be a very acceptable method for grinding my grain. I haven't tried
the other roller mills now available so I can't compare them. I think the
Malt Mill is well built, but I have a couple of minor complaints. I am not
real happy with the adjustment ability of the Malt Mill. It is not a fine
adjustment - I have found that I can only grind barley malt in a very narrow
range of the adjustment. Also the small set screw that hold the adjustment
cam in place is too small - I can't tighten it by hand enough to hold the
adjustment, and it is easily bent with pliers. This is not a serious
problem though - I found the setting that works well and I keep it there. I
normally don't grind other grains, so I can live with this. I also
considered motorizing the Malt Mill, but have not done so. First, I think
you would need a slow motor. Cranking by hand, I sometimes go too fast for
the rollers' ability to feed and get an accumulation of grain to one side of
the top of the rollers - and that side quits feeding through. The only fix
for this problem is to completely empty the hopper and start over. Second,
it just doesn't take very long to run 20 to 30 pounds of grain through the
mill by hand (15 minutes). Instead of motorizing, I soon realized that what
I really needed was a longer crank handle than the stock one. So, I
replaced the 5 1/2" handle with a 9" long handle that I made out of aluminum
stock of the same dimensions as the original. Wow, what an improvement! and
I can't see any disadvantage to the longer handle - unless it voids my
warranty. Hey Jack, IMWV?
Neal Christensen
Missoula, MT - A Place Sort Of
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 1995 17:14:34 -0500
From: WALZENBREW@aol.com
Subject: I'll Take a Sam Adams, Please
Bryan L. Gros writes in HD1883:
>But I think that the people on the digest who dislike S/A products do
>so because of Mr. Koch's business practices. It is not size either.
>While I don't think we should get into it again, S/A could have just as
>much impact on the beer-buying public without the lawsuits and without
>"buying" votes in the 80s GABF and without misleading ads.
I disagree completely. Jim Koch is a marketing genius who loves good
beer. It never fails to amaze me when I travel out to the "hinterland"
(i.e., areas where they've never heard of a brewpub or micro) that I can
find Sam Adams beers anywhere I go. If S/A didn't market their beers
the way they do they wouldn't be available coast to coast and out in the
boonies. And as one who grew up with an advertising copywriter parent,
in my opinion Jim Koch's done nothing "misleading" in any of the ads
I've seen. This is America - and this is the way you market products in
America if you want them to sell. If you don't like the way it's done
that's OK, but you probably wouldn't be very successful in retailing,
either. Keep in mind who they're competing with - and the competition's
firmly entrenched and enormous distribution networks (not to mention
their million $ ad budgets selling image and sex). Jim Koch is trying
to marketing to everybody, including the swill crowd - and in doing so,
in my opinion, has done more to expand America's beer consciousness than
anyone else - Fritz Maytag and Pete Slosberg included. Remember - the
more persons that become aware of good beer through Jim Koch's efforts,
the greater the market becomes for good beer from all sources.
>I also think that it will be hard for craft brewing to completely
>succeed on a national level. That is, microbrewing has been a
>grassroots kind of revolution, so when you go down to the pub, you'd
>like to be able to get a fresh, local brew rather than one from Boston
>or Seattle or wherever (even if it is as fresh).
Sorry, but this misses the point. What matters is HOW THE BEER TASTES.
I really don't care where a good beer is made or who makes it if it is
an excellent, fresh, quality full-flavored beer. While it's nice to
have a local micro or brewpub, I think the term "microbrew revolution"
is misleading - the REAL revolution is in the quality of the new beers,
the growing availability of and demand for quality beers, and the
expanded public awareness of the diversity of beer styles. The "cottage
industry" mystique may have been true 8 or so years ago but today is as
misleading as any of S/A's alleged advertising infractions - Anchor and
Sierra Nevada, for example, are both bigger now than some of the
old-line regionals (like Straub in St. Marys PA), yet everybody still
calls their products "microbrews".
And as far as quality: I've never had a bad bottle of any Sam Adams
product that was within the freshness date. However, I can't begin to
count the number of trendy brewpubs and micros that I've visited in my
travels around the US and Canada over the past 10 years that made either
outright bad beer (infected or bad recipe) or beers that were nowhere
near the style they were claimed to be. Not to mention the ones that
all tasted the same - the overhopped-with-Cascade amber ales and "5-day
wonders" immediately come to mind. (Of course, I've also tasted some
really incredible beers at some of these places, too!)
>New breweries are popping up everywhere after all.
Yes, but are they making good beers or the styles you want? If you're a
fan of German style lagers, like I am, your choices are few, because
most of the brewpubs and micros opening will opt to do ales - they're
significantly cheaper in terms of equipment required and time to
produce. And after a while they all begin to taste the same. More
often than not it seems that the choice of what to make in a brewpub or
micro is based on the same economic principles that the big boys use: if
you can sell a beer that's cheaper to produce (i.e., a quality ale), why
make a more expensive one (i.e., a quality lager). Whereas a quality
brewer big enough to market nationally can make and sell whatever styles
it wants.
>While it is nice to be able to get something like a Sam Adams when
>that's the only alternative to the big brews, the need for a widely
>distributed flavorful beer is diminishing.
I disagree. If anything it's INCREASING. As more and more brewpubs and
micros open up this gives us all more choices, but it's no reason not to
have national brands too, as long as they're good quality beers. And
what's the definition of a "national brand"? Besides Sam Adams and
Pete's, we also have Sierra Nevada, Anchor, Celis, Redhook, August
Schell, Rogue, and Grant's, to name but a few, now available in much if
not most of the country. Would I give these brands up because they're
not "locally made"? Not on your life.
And I resent the implication that Sam Adams is the beer of last resort.
I happen to like the Boston Lager, and many times it's my first choice,
even when there are other micro selections available (especially if the
other choices are overhopped-with-Cascade amber ales).
In my opinion, being stuck with the choice of Budweiser or a local micro/
brewpub that makes beers I don't like is no choice at all. More
power to Jim Koch and the others out there who help to make quality
beers available everywhere.
Cheers,
Greg Walz
WALZENBREW@aol.com
Pittsburgh, PA
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1888, 11/20/95
*************************************
-------
