Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #1865
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/10/24 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1865 Tue 24 October 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
re: Rootbeer warning (Steve E. Mercer)
Trying to be brief about styles. (Russell Mast)
mason jars (KrisPerez)
RE: Labels, Labels /Concrete Mill (Brian Pickerill)
Swollen bags of LME from James Page (Brian Pickerill)
Stopper Stuck in Carboy (Jeff Hewit)
Isinglass... (blacksab)
Re: stuck mead (Dick Dunn)
Re: Wort chillers, etc. (Woodstok)
Re: Green stuff in the Cobra tap, pale malt vs. pilsen malt (HOMEBRE973)
Temp Conversion ("Bruce Eckert/Info Systems/Holland Community")
Headache in a Bottle (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
Re: Sam Adams Triple Bock, aeration (hollen)
Historic Styles (STAN MARX)
styles (Scott E. Bratlie)
Blue Moon recipe? (Cyruslax)
Someone sent me a greeting card? ("Dave Draper")
New German Malt (Evan Kraus)
Toasted Malt/Home Depot/DMHO (Eric W. Miller)
Hot side aeration (Ray Robert)
Stuck Brew Resolved!!! ("Ed Lustenader")
Maine brewers' festiva (kit.anderson)
DHMO paranoia ("Keith Royster")
Mason jar bombs ("Taber, Bruce")
Are my Hops Ruined? (AMHR?) ("Glyn Crossno")
Mason Jars (Matt_K)
Bitter Beer Bread ("Herb B. Tuten")
Mason Jars for Bottling (BOB)
Freezer/ Frig meed (Michael McGuire)
Used Corny Keg Prep (hollen)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!! October 3 thru October 13: The digest
!!! will be unmanned! Please be patient if
!!! you make any requests during this time
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
*
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
NOTE NEW HOMEBREW ADDRESS hpfcmgw!
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have
ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service,
send an e-mail message to ftpmail@gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
"help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 95 14:43:37 CDT
From: mercese@anubis.network.com (Steve E. Mercer)
Subject: re: Rootbeer warning
>I can't put my finger on it right now, but I read very recently that
>Sassafras root is not only mildly poisonous, but that the FDA has also made
>it illegal to sell (I'm talking about the root here, and not the bark). I
>might even have read this on the rootbeer page that Mark mentioned, and I
>recall the discussion being rather emphatic. I'm out of town right now and
>don't have all my stuff with me, so I can't post the details, but thought
>the warning should be made anyway. Anyone know anyhing more on this subject?
>I for one would be REAL curious to know the level of danger present because
>there is all kinds of Sassafras down in Carbondale, and I was very
>disappointed when I read it because at the time I was thinking about making
>some.
Traditional root beer is flavored with the root bark of
the sassafras tree (_Sassofras_variifolium_). The root
bark cannot be sold for human consumption in the US.
Sassafras contains the chemical known as safrole which
has been shown to be a carcinogen in laboratory animals.
Its oral toxicity in rats is 50% lethality at a dose of
1.95 g per kg. (_TD50_ = 1.95 g/kg)
Oil of sassafras is about 75 percent safrole.
HEPR (%) HUMAN EXPOSURE (PER DAY) RAT CARCINOGEN
4.7 Wine (250ml) Ethanol (30 ml)
2.8 Beer (12 oz; 354 ml) Ethanol (18 ml)
0.3 Lettuce, 1/8 head (125 g) Caffeic acid (66.3 mg)
0.2 Real Root Beer (12 oz; 354 ml) Safrole (6.6 mg)
0.1 Apple, 1 whole (230 g) Caffeic acid (24.4 mg)
_TD50_ = the daily lifetime dose (milligrams of chemical per kilo-
gram of body weight per day) which halves the proportion of rats
which remain cancer-free at the end of a standard lifetime.
_HEPR_ = (Human Exposure/Rat Potency) the percentage of TD50
received by a 70 kilogram human for the given lifetime intake
rate, i.e., (mg chemical per day) / (70 kg)/(TD50 for that chemical).
HEPR is not a direct estimate of the risk of a human getting cancer,
but rather is an index of relative carcinogenicity.
One glass of beer is about 14 times more carcinogenic than one
glass of root beer flavored with sassafras. One glass of wine
is about 23.5 times more carcinogenic.
This information is in the Root Beer FAQ available at
http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/RootB.html
- --
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 15:38:02 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Trying to be brief about styles.
First, let me say that Rob Lauritsen pretty much sums up my opinion about
styles with his comments about "reifying", and that styles are good tools
for competetions but should not restrict brewing to your heart's content.
> From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino@ozemail.com.au>
> Subject: Styles Vs Eclecticism
> I rest my case! From and outsider's point of view ... with experience of
> wine competitions, this seems absurd. Wine is grouped into styles (usually
> grape varieties) and judged on excellence. I have never heard of points for
> comformance to style?!
What would happen if I entered the best beer you've ever tasted in a wine
competetion?
> CS>Let the brewer woo the palate within broarder categories!
If you brew solely for winning competetions, or would like to, regardless of
whether you brew to style, I pity you, I pity you. If you make good beer
and you know it, who cares what some smelly old judge says about it?
> Why? This is OK as a hobby, but where it overlaps into quality commercial
> brewing it seems a little fundamentalist to me.
Does it? I've seen lots of new craft beers in the US that don't fit well
within stylistic boundaries, and lots of which would have to be entered into
the catch-all "specialty beer" categories. I hope the same is true Down Under.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 16:35:33 -0400
From: KrisPerez@aol.com
Subject: mason jars
LFCP67A@prodigy.com (MR MARK W LEVESQUE) writes:
>>A friend of mine has loads of the mason type canning jars in his
>>basement. They must be airtight since people use them to can veggies
>>etc. for the long term. Anyone out there ever try using those to
>>bottle home brew? I guess one concern would be strength/thickness of
>>the glass.
Mason jars are made to hold in a vacuum. Your homebrew will be just the
opposite.
It's not the strength or thickness of the glass thats the problem, but the
seal that the lid makes.
Once, several years ago, (in the dark ages of sugar beer), I was bottling on
a sunday and had already primed before I realized that I didn't have enough
caps. I saw no other option and but up about 2 gallons in quart mason jars. I
screwed the lids down REALLY TIGHT.
It worked. The beer was fine, carbonation was fine, no problems. However as I
would not recomend it, as I pointed out the lids of these jars are made to
seal well with a vacuum in the jar, not pressure.
YMMV
Kristine Perez
KrisPerez@aol.com
------------------------------
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril@bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: RE: Labels, Labels /Concrete Mill
I would also like to see a the Road Dog label. I will gladly scan it if
someone sends it to me. (send me email first). Also, it would be cool if
we could see some other brewer's setups, and I'm sorry I missed the (satelite
broadcast?) of John Palmer's brewery. Maybe a web page could put up a Quicktime
movie of this???
Also, Dan Wilson asks:
> A question I've never seen addressed, for the colective wisdom.
> Everyone tells me to soak off those labels. No one has ever mentioned
> why. Private Email works, dwilson3@email.usps.gov Standing by to be
> educated. Dan Wilson
It's a matter of personal pride I guess. I have bottled once or twice in a
couple of bottles that still had the old label on it, but my homebrew
deserves better! ;-)
- ---------
The concrete mill sounds very interesting. I had some trouble following the
plans for it though. Maybe it's just me? Which part does the grinding,
and which way does the grain go in and out of the mill?
- --Brian Pickerill, Muncie, IN
------------------------------
Date-Warning: Date header was inserted by BSUVC.bsu.edu
From: 00bkpickeril@bsuvc.bsu.edu (Brian Pickerill)
Subject: Swollen bags of LME from James Page
I got a couple of cases of Breiss LME from James Page (got the free lb of
hops with it). The bags are 3lb, and aren't marked as Breiss, but the
original ad said it was Breiss.
Subject line sez it though, several of the bags are swollen now, and there
was way too much air in the bag (IMHO). All of the bags have air in them
and the swollen ones in particular are at least 1/3 air. I will try to use
this up quickly, but I'm a bit concerned about it. I haven't called them
about it yet. BTW, the bags have not gotten hot or set in the sunlight or
anything like that. Also, I brewed with a couple of bags of it already and
it seems OK. What do you think about this?
It took about a month to get delivery. I was not real happy about that,
still, it was the best price I could find, so I didn't expect the BEST
possible service. I know that it didn't ship for about 3 weeks after I
initially ordered it because I called them after about 3 weeks.
If I had it to do over again, I would get the Northwestern and pay a bit
more per case. (Std. disclaimers apply, of course.)
- --Brian Pickerill, Muncie, IN
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 1995 21:30:36 -0400
From: jhewit@freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit)
Subject: Stopper Stuck in Carboy
This morning, in getting ready to bottle my latest batch, I did
something really dumb. I was having trouble getting the stopper
out of my carboy, and in the course of trying to pry it out
with a kitchen knife, I ended up pushing the whole thing into
the carboy. It doesn't take much imagination to figure out
what my next words were. This didn't cause any problems in
racking to the bottling bucket, so I proceeded with the
bottling chore, knowing that I had one more thing to do after I
cleaned up. I did consider smashing the carboy to retrieve the
stopper, but I was determined to try to save both pieces of
valuable equipment. Then a thought struck me. After I got off
the floor, I took a piece of flexible electical wire (from a
lamp cord) and was able to run it through the hole in the
stopper. A ran about an additional foot or so beyond the exit
hole of the stopper, and using a hook fashioned from a coat
hanger, retireved the other end of the wire. Now having both
ends of the wire, I was able to pull the stopper out sideways.
Both the stopper and carboy managed to survive this generally
painful method of removal. I hope none of you suffer this, but
just in case you do, this method was rather quick and easy.
Brew on!
Jeff Hewit
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 07:27:49 -0500
From: blacksab@siu.edu
Subject: Isinglass...
Is it just me, or did one of the postings yesterday (#1863) seem a little,
uh... odd? Hmmm...
--Harlan
****************************************************************************
* Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can *
* <blacksab@siu.edu> To justify God's ways to man. *
* Carbondale, IL --A.E. Houseman *
* *
****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: 21 Oct 95 09:27:47 MDT (Sat)
From: rcd@raven.eklektix.com (Dick Dunn)
Subject: Re: stuck mead
Brian Travis wrote about repitching yeast from a mead that had just finished
into a new must:
>>The batch that failed to "ignite" is a higher gravity "sweet mead" with 7.5
>>pounds of raspberrys and 20 lbs of "generic" honey (OG 1.135).
iaciofano@leds.enet.qntm.com (ED IACIOFANO) responded
> Yikes! 1.135?!?!? Your yeast probably croaked from osmotic pressure,
> being dumped from a 0.992 gravity liquid to a 1.135 must. Think of how
> you'd feel if you dove from air into a pool of wet cement...
True, and beyond that, the yeast from the old batch had probably started
to shut down. 0.992 is pretty much the end of the fermentation.
>...From what
> I've learned, yeast (even wine yeast) don't like starting gravities that
> high. One way around this might be to acclimate the yeast through
> starters of increasing starting gravity, perhaps 1.05 to 1.10 to the
> 1.135 must...
That might work, but it involves two extra steps where you've got to "keep
it clean" (not that contamination is a big problem with meads, but you
still have to fuss). Also, consider whether the yeast are really going to
be the same in the new mead, _vs_ having mutated after they've fermented
the old one to about 13% alcohol.
(Personally, since I use dry yeasts for meads, I'd never bother with re-
using yeast from a previous batch.)
>...Also, a starting gravity of 1.135 puts your potential alcohol
> at about 17.5%. You'll be bumping the upper limit of wine yeast alcohol
> tolerance.
If you could ferment out to dry from 1.135, you'd end up below 1.000, so
you'd be well over 18%. The yeast simply won't make it that far, so it's
going to end up as a sweet mead. Nothing wrong with that.
> You may need more than 1t of yeast nutrient; two or three more
> will probably not affect the final flavor...
Ed's right...if you can get the yeast working, they'll be busy for a long
time and will use up several t of nutrient. Some folks say that yeast
hulls will do it; IMO they don't supply all you need. (In Brian's case,
the raspberries are a help.)
> If all else fails, dillute the must down to 1.100 and ferment.
Probably the best idea to get things going. Good general rule is to keep
starting gravity of a mead must at/below 1.100. The normal procedure for
making "high-gravity" meads is actually not to start at high gravity, but
to start at (say) 1.100 and add honey in stages as fermentation progresses.
You are likely to be racking more than once, so you can add honey (thinned
with water so you can mix it in, of course) at each racking. It compli-
cates the question of the actual effective starting gravity, but the yeast
will be much happier.
- ---
Dick Dunn rcd@talisman.com -or- raven!rcd Boulder, Colorado USA
...Simpler is better.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 14:28:45 -0600 (MDT)
From: Woodstok <woodstok@rupert.oscs.montana.edu>
Subject: Re: Wort chillers, etc.
I just had to throw in my two bits on this on-going discussion of wort
chillers. I have only been brewing for the last few months, but I the
beer i make won't kill anyone ;) Though some people will snub their
noses at my technique, it DOES work just fine. For beginners or people
who can't/don't buy/make a chiller of some sort, i suggest simply
immersing the wort in ice water. Every time i've used this method i get
a good cold break. I just put the lid on my boiling pot and stick it in
the sink (filled with ice water) and let it sit for about 15 min or so,
stirring the water every so often. Then i pour the cooled wort into the
carboy and if the water i used to top it off doesn't cool it down enough
i just fill the bathtub (or a bucket of some sort) with icewater and let
it cool off until it's ready to pitch. It usually only takes me 30-45
min to do this, even less in the winter :), and it's never given me a
problem with contamination yet! It's a whole lot better than waiting
overnight to cool the wort down.
This procedure is by no means better, but it does work just as well so
far as i can see.
Keep on brewin'!
Dave
!!!!THIS LIFE IS A TEST!!!!
This life is only a test, if this had been an actual
life you would have received official instructions
on where to go and what to do...
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 1995 19:21:47 -0400
From: HOMEBRE973@aol.com
Subject: Re: Green stuff in the Cobra tap, pale malt vs. pilsen malt
Ron Moucka asks about the green stuff in his cobra tap. If its not venom,
it most likely is mold. I had the same experience with a recent pale ale
after having it on tap at about 50 F over a few months.
What is the HBD general concensus on using DWC Pilsen malt in place of DWC
2-row pale ale malt for a British or American style ale? I seem to have a
lot of the former and none of the latter malts.
Andy Kligerman
Hillsborough, NC
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 10:30:04 EST
From: "Bruce Eckert/Info Systems/Holland Community" <BPE@zonker.hoho.org>
Subject: Temp Conversion
On 17 Oct 95 07:52:44 EDT Tim Fields <74247.551@compuserve.com>
writes:
>Hello all,
>
>Would someone please post a conversion formula for converting metric temp
>into arcane Fahrenheit so I can follow along with some semblance of
>usefulness? I'm not about to ask posters to do the conversion for me
>:-), so a formula would be helpful.
The absolutely correct "C" to "F" formula is:
F = C * 1.8 +32
The other way is:
F - 32
C = --------
1.8
Here is a simple "in your head trick":
Temperature in "C" times 2, subtract 10%, add 32
Which gives you temp in F.
Example:
You have a wort that measures 29 degrees C. To get F,
29 * 2 = 58
10% of this is 5.8 (round to 6)
58 - 6 = 52
52 + 32 = 84 F
Pitch that yeast!
- ----------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Eckert / Director, Info Systems
/ Holland Community Hospital
/ Holland Michigan USA
bpe@hoho.org
- ----------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 95 21:19:49 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Headache in a Bottle
I posted a big technical question on bottle conditioning, Rob Lauriston gave me
the benefit of his experience by email.
Thanks also to Jim Busch who takes the time to reply,
>Charlie writes about a passion (obsession?):
But Jim, what a magnificent obsession!! Experimentation in the pursuit of
excellence.
><1/ Winowing out most of the malt husks ( 75-85%) at crushing. Including them
><in a bag at mash, but excluding them at sparge. I'm looking for a massive
><reduction in phenols.
>You going to use a mash filter, filter press, strainmaster, Lambert
>filter?
A nylon screen over the lauter tun bottom at present. Maybe a Strainmaster
clone later.
><5/Hop back, then fast plate heat exchanger cooling.(8-10 minutes)
>Oh, this is a 3 gallon brewery? Or a 3 inch ID exchanger?
Its two, a 1250 litre and a 3800 litre. Plate exchangers don't have ID, they
have a small plate gap. The plates can be configured parallel to run at any
flow rate. Carlton United Breweries in Brisbane cool at 8,000 Hl/ hour. Tube
type exchangers run into convection/laminar flow problems at anything like 3
inch ID. I am posting two plate exchanger designs soon to The Brewery, one for
homebrewers and one for micros.
><6/Flotation tank coldbreak separation over ~16 hours at 0C while aerating.
>That exceeds normal floatation by 8-10 hours. At 0C, expect very
>high DO levels.
Yes, I badly worded that. Aeration for a few hours will float the cold break
with vigorous air flow. A further 12 hours is standard for letting the foam
settle to a cake for skimming.The current "foaming with aquariun pumps" thread
is this same effect. It is simply used commercially to seperate cold break.
With air there are saturation limits on DO levels independent of time.
<7/ Centrifuge before transfer to fermenter at pitching temperature.
>Ive never heard of prefermentation centrifuging. Why?
At present my flotation tank/ bright beer tank is a 120 litre inverted SS cone
that spins with a washing machine motor. It is thus a centrifuge that compacts
anything at the outer circumference. All cold break doesn't float so I give it
a spin. Ihave designed a dumping device as a test for larger models.
><f/ The six packs of packaged beer may be centifuged on a continous carosell
><after conditioning, to further compact the sediment if necessary.
>Someones paying for all this! I dont see what this last step will do.
I'm a medium size businessman Jim, I watch my dollars and product presentation
very carefully. If I cannot get stable enough sediment with natural floculation
to prevent the last glass from the bottle being cloudy, I intend to centrifuge
the bottles to compact it, it is a quite simple continuous machine. I have
given the Cooper's ale yeast a spin in a 12G homemade rig for a few munutes.,
it worked great. It will clarify your beer well for your competitions! The
trick is not to burst the yeast cells with centrifical force which can be done
at high G's.
(Please don't post me for the homemade centrifuge designs, I'll put them in the
Brewery too.)
>This practice is exactly what Sierra Neveda does, but I dont think they
>go this extreme!
Which particular practice Jim, bottle conditioning with a seperate yeast,
flotation tank, husk seperation? I'd love to know. Their reputation reached me
in Oz long before I found the HBD.
I still need the answer to my BIG QUESTION; Will the reducing power of the
presence of yeast be a
greater plus in flavour freshness preservation than the possible production of
off flavours by autolysis or shock excretion from thermal abuse? I don't want
to spend a year brewing experiments to find out, if expert advice can solve
this now. What are European bottle conditioning practices?
This whole system is simply a traditional Quality Assurance approach.
"Eliminate all variables possible by design and control those that can't be
eliminated" The resources for formulation of recipies and hopping and mashing
regimes are abundant for the homebrewer. The micro needs to also refine
execution of technique to achieve consistency. I don't have people like Rob and
Jim's extensive experience in what will have the most impact on quality, so I
methodically attack each variable. I'm also concerned about fermentation
byproducts that cause "seediness" and headaches some hours after the flavour
has been appreciated. Call it after sales service!
Anyone know of literature on bottle conditioning chemistry and problems?
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
"Yes Miller, of all the beers that don't taste like anything, yours doesn't
taste like anything the best?" Richard Scotty.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 08:26:52 -0700
From: hollen@vigra.com
Subject: Re: Sam Adams Triple Bock, aeration
>>>>> "Neal" == Neal Christensen <nealc@selway.umt.edu> writes:
Neal> Question for Dion: Yesterday you mentioned that you aerate in a
Neal> closed corny - so foaming is not a concern. You also mentioned
Neal> that George Fix suggests that wort cannot be over-oxygenated at
Neal> normal atmospheric pressure. But aren't you oxygenating under
Neal> pressure, and could that result in too much oxygen in solution
Neal> for some time after releasing the pressure and applying the air
Neal> lock?
Your concern is very valid. I have no measured scientific evidence to
prove or disprove whether I have too much O2. Empirical observation
suggests I am not overoxygenating. I pitched last night about 5pm,
oxygenated up to 20 psi for about an hour. Let it sit at 20 psi until
8pm, at which time I released pressure and attached blowoff hose and
bucket. At 7am this morning I had about 2" of krausen in my blowoff
bucket. Do *you* think I am harming the yeast? I have to admit that
I pitched 2 liters of very healthy yeast because this is a Belgain
Strong Ale with an OG of 1.090, if I damaged the yeast with
overoxygenation, I don't believe they would be as active as they are
this morning.
Neal> Dion, you have the stone and the oxygen tank, so why don't you
Neal> set it up in-line.
Just lazy I guess. I started oxygenating with just the liquid dip
tube and when I got the stone, just using it instead in the same
manner was the easiest thing to do. At that time, I had not seen Don
Put's in line oxygenator, nor did I have a convenient way of putting
the stone in line. I still think that would be a ton of work to put
the stone inline. Frankly, what I am doing right now works
fantastically, so until I run out of things to do, making permutations
is low on my list.
Neal> What advantages do you see in aerating for several hours in the
Neal> fermenting tank?
Over any other method which produces as vigorous ferments as I get,
none, it is a matter of style. I do not claim my method is the
end-all be-all best way, only *one* excellent way. Any way which
suits your brewery and style which achieves as good results is fine in
my book. If your way suits your style and brewery, but does not give
you quick vigorous fermentation, due to under or over oxygenation,
then that is the *only* reason I would say to stay away from it.
Neal> On my next batch, I'm going to try the simple method of using a
Neal> tube with small holes to pull in air as the wort exits the
Neal> boiling pot on the way to the What would be better in the long
Neal> term, in-line or in the fermentor?
Again, whatever is best for you. The in line tube method works super
for Don Put, I don't see why it would not work well for you as well.
It certainly would be less expensive than implementing the stone
method I use.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 95 14:56:00 -0400
From: stan.marx@syncomm.com (STAN MARX)
Subject: Historic Styles
Jim Dipalma writes in HBD 1863:
:As to the historical aspect of styles, it's been correctly pointed
:out that it's difficult to brew historically accurate reproductions
:of original styles, due to the evolution of agriculture and
:technology. Al K writes:
:>Regarding historical depth to styles, perhaps there isn't and it
:>would be quite refreshing to see someone try to take a crack at
:>"Original Porter" albeit in the Specialty category. Sure we can't
:>buy brown malt anymore, but who says we can't try and make it at
:>home?
I agree that without a time machine it would be impossible to brew
a historically accurate reproduction of and original style (HAROS).
But everything I read in this thread states styles are ARBITRARY.
Would it be impossible for the AHA to formulate a style definition
which would be based on a interpation of historic brewing techniques
and ingredients?
:Actually, there are some maltsters still producing a product called
:brown malt, Hugh Baird and Great Western among them. This malt has
:a color rating of about 70L, and I've read it contributes a very
:sharp, bitter flavor. I am dubious that this product is
:"historically accurate", since it could not be used as a base malt,
:which brown malt was in original porters.
Hmmm, a sharp bitter flavor... possibly contributing bitterness
missing from aged, oxidized hops, no O2 barrier plastic after all.
:Another difficulty that would be encountered in trying to
:reproduce an original porter is that the strains of hops specified
:in documentation of the original recipes no longer exist. The type
:of yeast used was apparently never documented, and is a complete
:mystery. I think this example demonstrates the problems with using
:modern style guidelines as a historical reference.
But aren't our modern British hops descendants of these strains,
some traits should have survived. Yeast would be an ale strain,
most likely multi-strain, with a warm tempature profile. The
flavor contribution of the yeast is unknowable but isn't a little
artistic license allowable in our craft?
Possible style guidelines // feel free to embellish
(HAROS) Original Porter style
Base of 1/2 British pale ale malt, 1/2 Brown malt
Color: Dark brown to black
Flavor: Rich malt flavor with assertive bitterness, malt sweetness
balanced partially with brown malt bitterness,hop flavor
low to medimum, oak flavor ok ('twas aged in wood tuns)
(HAROS) Original Scotch ale
Base of British / Scottish pale ale malt with some roast barley
and peat smoked malt
Color: Dark red-brown to black
Flavor: High malt flavor, very low hop profile, caramel flavor
due to kettle caramelization, some peat undertones (after
all the decline of Scotch ale wasn't from OPEC cutting off
their supply of natural gas) sweetness due to dextrins,
some oxidation ok (from rousing the yeast, rolling the
casks around the courtyard), high alcohol warmth with
massive body and mouthfeel, low esters and fusels (cold
ferment and conditioning)
Stan
stan.marx@syncomm.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 17:49:15 -0600
From: bratlie@selway.umt.edu (Scott E. Bratlie)
Subject: styles
So how do I classify My latest? A dry stout with vanilla beans in the
secondary, fermented on Wyeast 2112 California Common. The most important
question. Is my Vanilla Bean Steam stout ruined?
Scott Bratlie
Missoula, Montana
Bratlie@selway.umt.edu
"A nation may lose its liberties in a day and
not miss them in a century."
Montesquieu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 1995 23:04:53 -0400
From: Cyruslax@aol.com
Subject: Blue Moon recipe?
I have just tasted an awesome ale called Blue moon, it is a Belgian white
ale. It has a mix of wheat,oats,malt, coriander, and orange peel. If any one
can offer a recipe for this fine brew please write me at Cyruslax@aol.com
thank you
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 16:31:33 +10
From: "Dave Draper" <david.draper@mq.edu.au>
Subject: Someone sent me a greeting card?
Dear Friends, a couple of days ago I got this in my email, from a Web
service signed WebRat:
"Someone likes you enough to have made you a greeting card in my nest. You
can find it at
http://www.thenet-usa.com/nest/greet/cards/brewer_down_under!1.html.
Read it before I eat it."
Well I can not get at this document--I keep getting the message
"Document contains no data." I have tried leaving off the final
period, since I have never seen a URL that ends in one, but get the
same message every time. I assume that whoever is behind this
came from these pages, so I am asking whoever it is to contact me and
let me in on the mystery.
Thanks and sorry for the bandwidth, Dave in Sydney
"Don't pick your nose." ---Domenick Venezia
- ---
***************************************************************************
David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia
Email: david.draper@mq.edu.au Home page: http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~ddraper
...I'm not from here, I just live here...
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 07:32:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: ejk@bselab.bls.com (Evan Kraus)
Subject: New German Malt
I was at the local Homebrew shop yesterday and the owner showed me
some new malt he had gotten as a sample, but they failed to send
any malt analysis sheets.
I am looking for some info on it.
This is what was on the bag.
Mich. Weyermann
Bamberg Germany
CARAFA
He told me it was pils malt but I have my suspissions with the
CARAFA printed on the bag.
Any info would be appreciated !!!
Evan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:43:52 -0400
From: ac051@osfn.rhilinet.gov (Eric W. Miller)
Subject: Toasted Malt/Home Depot/DMHO
In HBD #1864 Bruce DeBolt (not Keith Frank) asks about home-toasted malt.
I gave toasting a try last month. I used two trays on different racks in
the oven. The top tray came out under-toasted. I started to burn some
of the grains in the bottom tray. I separated the unburnt grains from the
burnt grains in tray two and mashed on the same day I toasted. The unburnt
grains were the color of very dark crystal malt, a lot lighter than
Special-B. I'd guess somewhere in the mid 100's Lovibond.
The resultant beer is sharply bitter (not a nice bitterness like you get
from hops). It's the worst beer I've brewed since my first batch (one can
of hopped malt extract, one can of corn sugar, pitch yeast taped to top of
can...).
If I do it again, I'll try toasting the grain a week or so in advance of
brewing and I'll discard entirely a tray of malt that burns at all.
___
Harlan Bauer rants about big hardware stores:
>Just because Home Despot (sic) doesn't sell it doesn't mean
>that it's not available. Sure, maybe you can save a few pennies, but try
>asking for advice some time;
I had great luck asking for advice at HD a few years ago when I built my
wort chiller. The salesman (an occasional homebrewer) steered me toward
the right size hose, compression fitting, and faucet adaptor. Works like
a champ. Maybe it's because I'm severely plumbing impaired that this
seems like a big help to me.
___
Thanks to Dan McConnell for warning about the dangers of DMHO. I've taken
steps to eliminate it from my diet, but find myself getting more and more
thirsty by the minute. ;-)
Eric Miller
Newport, RI
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 08:51:00 PDT
From: Ray Robert <rayr@bah.com>
Subject: Hot side aeration
Good Day Brew Collective!
I have some questions regarding brewing techniques. I have only been
recently enlightened to the phenomenom known as hot-side aeration. After
perusing some of the back issues of the hbd, I believe several of my
techniques are flawed. Here are some areas which I have been doing where I
may be introducing HSA:
1. Pouring runoff from pitcher to boiling pot.
2. Filtering the hot wort through a colander with mesh bag to remove hop
particles.
3. Placing the fermentor (plastic) in a larger bucket of chilled water.
(Alas no wort chiller & my next purchase)
A few items I am not clear on are 1) What are the affects of HSA? 2) What
can I do to mitigate the effects? 3) Is there an authoritative source for
HSA? (Papazian gave me the ideas for what I am doing now).
Thanks
Robert Ray
rayr@bah.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:34:31 EDT
From: "Ed Lustenader" <usfmcf9t@ibmmail.com>
Subject: Stuck Brew Resolved!!!
Thanks to all who responded to my stuck brew problem last week. It turns
out that the FG was 1.019. I've never had such a quick fermentation before.
I was concerned because of the 2.5hr mash at 160F and thought that might
have had something to do with it. As suggested, I racked to the secondary,
with a packet of gelatin and will wait for it to clear. Used the yeast for
yet another brew, this time an oatmeal stout. I happy to report that the
stout is bubbling just fine.
Thanks again to all who responded.
Regards,
Ed Lustenader
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 09:20:10 -0500
From: kit.anderson@acornbbs.com
Subject: Maine brewers' festiva
Ahh.. October in Maine. Grouse hunting and Geary's Hampshire Ale. (Not
at the same time, of course.) The ad says, "Available only while the
weather sucks." It has been in the upper sixties and sunny since I can
remember. It doesn't suck, but bring on the Hampshire anyway. This
year's batch has lots of crystal flavor and a little more hop
character than last year.
For those within driving distance to the pine tree state, The Maine
Brewers' Festival is November 4. See the Maine Brew Page at
http://www.maine.com/brew for more info.
Kit Anderson
Bath, Maine
<kit.anderson@acornbbs.com>
*
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:51:25 +0500 ET
From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471@mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject: DHMO paranoia
In HBD #1864 danmcc@umich.edu (Dan McConnell) warns us about the hazards
of Dihydrogen Monoxide.
Once again a bare footed, tree hugging, pachoulli smellin' liberal
overreacts because a chemical that is otherwise very beneficial to humans
is shown to *possibly* have some negative side effects. Before you go an
spread such lies you should do a little research, Dan! My experiences
have shown DHMO to be very beneficial, if used in the proper
concentrations. In fact, I will dare to say that I could not make beer
with out it! I have also found that it is essential to the healthy
propogation of yeast.
DHMO can easily and safely be used by the average homebrewer. While it
can be bought in bottles or even delivered directly to your home, I'm
sure that many of you are gadget freaks and will be interested in hearing
how I make it myself. It is simply chemistry, but will involve a little
bit of money in the initial setup. You need to buy a tank of liquid
hydrogen and another of liquid oxygen and hook them up to a standard
combustion chamber. You then need to build a reservoir for a cooling
liquid (water) to submerge the combustion chamber in. The hydrogen and
oxygen are mixed in the combustion chamber where they are ignited. My
experiences have shown that the proper mixing ratio of the two gases is
approximately 2:1 for hydrogen to oxygen. The products of combustion will
produce pure gaseous DHMO, which will then be cooled to its liquid state
by the blanket of cooling water surrounding the combustion chamber.
Have fun with your new gadget! And as always, be careful playing with
hydrogen and oxygen, for they can be very dangerous gases!
Keith Royster - KRoyster@mro.ehnr.state.nc.us
NC-DEHNR - Div. of Environmental Mgmt.
Mooresville, NC, USA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 95 09:49:00 EDT
From: "Taber, Bruce" <BRUCE.TABER@NRC.CA>
Subject: Mason jar bombs
In Monday's HBD, Mike White suggested testing mason jars to see if they
are strong enough to hold pressure. He suggested putting carbonated
beer in one, tightening the lid, and shaking. DON"T DO IT.
I have no idea if mason jars are strong enough or not, but if the jar
fails before the lid leaks then the jar will explode and send glass shards
everywhere. Maybe they are strong enough, but you won't catch me
testing a glass container that wasn't designed to hold pressure.
Also, sorry about my last post having too long a line length. I hate when
they wrap around like that. I'll be very embarrassed if this one does
the same.
Bruce
taber@irc.lan.nrc.ca
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:58:18 CST
From: "Glyn Crossno" <CROSSNO@novell2.tn.cubic.com>
Subject: Are my Hops Ruined? (AMHR?)
A couple of Sunday's ago I picked my final couple of ounces of hops (first
year plants), and put them up in the attic to dry. On Monday I got sent out
of town on business. Now two weeks later, they are very dry, still green,
and smell good. Are my hops ruined? Should I just leave them there for a
couple of more years and make a Lambic?
Has anybody used or heard of a hammer mill for crushing grains? All the
farmers around here have them and I should be able to get one very cheap or
free. Or should I continue to piece together a roller mill?
Have one for me, as if you need the excuse,
Glyn Crossno
outside (great brewing weather) Estill Springs TN
Crossno@novell2.tn.cubic.com
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or
no influence on society. Mark Twain
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:01:24 est
From: Matt_K@ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Mason Jars
Mike White writes:
> However, that is not to say that a Mason jar will not hold the >
pressure of carbonated beverage. An idea for a quick test would be >
to pour a bottle of beer into a Mason jar, firmly screw on a new lid >
(don't re-use old lids as the seals are deformed from use) and shake >
the heck out of it. If the jar hold the pressure....well then I > >
would assume you could use them for bottling.
Well. I've been using Mason jars for about a year now to store yest
from my primary. This stuff develops considerable positive pressure
and , so far, none of my jars have leaked/exploded. Sure, some of the
lid have "boinked" but they still held the seal.
Matt
Montreal (still in Canada!!)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:15:40 EDT
From: "Herb B. Tuten" <HERB@zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us>
Subject: Bitter Beer Bread
Don't make this mistake.....
Friday night I racked my Vanilla Ale to the secondary
and capped three bottles of trub to make a yeast starter
next week (they're in the fridge). Of course, there was still
a healthy amount of the muck at the bottom of the primary.
Have you ever looked at all that trub and wondered what
other purpose it could serve? So, tempting fate and playing
The Frugal Brewer, I started a batch of white bread in the
nearby bread machine but instead of yeast and 1 cup of water
I added...
yep.. a cup of swirled trub. The thing kneaded and rose
and baked and at 2 am Saturday I tried a piece. Some of
man's greatest discoveries came from strange experiments.
This was definately NOT one of them. The bread was bitter.
Of course, I now have a great recipe for dog treats.......
Cheers,
Herb
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 09:19:29 -0600 (CST)
From: BOB <RJMONSON@STTHOMAS.EDU>
Subject: Mason Jars for Bottling
With respect to the recent discussion about Mason
Jars and bottling, I can in fact attest to the fact
that a Mason Jar will hold Carbonated Beer.
I know this mainly due to my unbelievable ability
to come out 5 bottles short whenever I am bottling.
Due to the fact that I am also frugal, I refuse to
waste such a precious commodity as beer, and therefore
bottle in whatever pressure vessel looking thing may
be at hand.
And thus, my wifes antique Mason Jar, foolishly displayed
in an overhead (but not out of reach) position, results
in a 'wide mouth' vessel to be enjoyed next summer.
On a related note, Sam Adams Triple Bock. How to make?
Won't the high alcohol content kill the yeast before
completion of the fermentation?
Bob@home enjoying a brew
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 10:23:30 -0500
From: mcguire@hvsun40.mdc.com (Michael McGuire)
Subject: Freezer/ Frig meed
Hi all,
Help me out with my purchase decision.
I'm interested in a fig or freezer. I plan on brewing ales (68 F) and
lagers (48 F), and I plan on conditioning my brews at 33 F (serve @48F).
Obviously a chest Freezer has merits of space, but then I'm left without
a conditioning space. When you use a Hunter thermostat on a frig. and set
the frig side to 48-50 F, what temp can I get on the freezer side?? Is
there a good solution or am I doomed to having 2 beer frigs/freezers??
Do you condition/age meed at a reduced temperature like ales and lagers??
Maybe I'll stick to making ales,
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 1995 08:38:20 -0700
From: hollen@vigra.com
Subject: Used Corny Keg Prep
The following message is a courtesy copy of an article
that has been posted as well.
There has been a lot of talk about prepping used soda kegs for use in
homebrewing and several people have asked me for the writeup I have of
how I do it, so I think it is worth posting. I have run this by John
Palmer to ensure no cruelty to Stainless Steel is advocated. B-}
While I may go overboard with my prep, when I am done, the kegs look
very close to brand new (that is given that I do not select kegs with
cracked rubber or dents to begin with).
How to prepare a used soda syrup keg for brewery use
1) Rinse off outside with hot soapy water and a ScotchBrite pad.
2) Hit any paper labels with a soft brass bristle brush to break
up the surface and make them more liquid permeable. If any
paper labels are on the rubber, finish them off down to the
rubber with the brass brush. For labels on SS, see next
step.
3) Finish removing the paper labels with more hot soapy water
and a ScotchBrite pad. Don't try to remove any label glue,
that is later.
4) Sun dry the keg.
5) Scrape any plastic labels off the SS with a razor blade being
careful to not scratch the SS. Also, scrape off any large
deposits of glue.
6) Remove any residual glue from the rubber and SS with a cloth
and Goo-Gone or CitraSolve.
7) Remove Goo-Gone or CitraSolve with a heavy duty household
cleaner.
8) Open and rinse the inside with hot water.
9) Brush out the interior with a hot water solution of 1 TBS
TSP per gallon of water and rinse with hot water. Use a
nylon bristle brush.
10) Disassemble, brush out the dip tubes and valve bodies with
the TSP solution and rinse with hot water. Again, use a nylon
bristle brush.
11) If there are any rust spots on the SS, use an oxalic acid based
cleaner such as Bar Keeper's Friend or Kleen-King and a
Scotch Brite pad to remove the rust.
12) Rinse everything thoroughly with hot water and let stand in
the sun to dry.
13) If you needed to use an oxalic acid cleaner, store the keg
inside for a week or two to let the natural oxidaton layer
reform on the SS.
14) Wipe the rubber top and bottom with a pure silicone spray
put on a cloth.
15) Obtain new O-rings and re-assemble.
16) Store with the valve bodies and lid loose and a plastic bag
over the top of the keg to prevent dust from entering.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1865, 10/24/95
*************************************
-------
