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HOMEBREW Digest #1870
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/10/30 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1870 Mon 30 October 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Wheat Beer Yeast Question (dludwig)
Heavy CO2 in fershly bottled (Todd W. Roat)
RE: Washed yeast, Bleach, Ring-around-the-collar (MClarke950)
Webless Flea Market Solved! ("Pat Babcock")
Re: Finnish homebrewers (Tim Fields)
slant inoculation / filtering ("Keith Royster")
Thanks (uszvnr96)
re: Using a Blowoff hose...good idea? (Eric W. Miller)
Craft Brewing Beast (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
Brewpubs/Brewers in Montreal 11-13 1995 (Robert Schultz)
Free Sankey tap claimed (Rich Hampo)
Re: How to use spent grains... (Jay Welther)
RE:Belgian Pale malt (Jim Busch)
Racking (Jim Busch)
Large Caps ("Goodale, Daniel CPT 2AD DISCOM")
Breiss extract supplier (tim_lawson)
complex sugars, ("Tracy Aquilla")
Wyeast 1056 Follow-up and Mash Temp Thread ("MSG Richard Smith")
Brew on Premises (MAURAPAT)
American Lager ("William D. Knudson")
Grain Toasting/Roasting/kilning, temperature (Steve Alexander)
RE Iodophor rinsing (Tim Fields)
Re: Fischer d'Alsace and french (M. Blind)
RE: rings (uswlsrap)
Figuring pressure/temperature to carbonate kegs? (J Dudley Leaphart)
American Brewers Guild HB courses (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
Re: Wyeast 1056 (C.D. Pritchard)
Chlorine Bleach (WALZENBREW)
Mushroom Corks (WALZENBREW)
Labels and Bulging Cans (WALZENBREW)
Sparge Water Heater; N.A. Beer (KennyEddy)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:17:03 -0400
From: dludwig@ameritel.net
Subject: Wheat Beer Yeast Question
Well its my first attempt at an all grain wheat beer this weekend! My wife
and I just spent 1.5 weeks in southern germany and I have become quite a
weisenbier fanatic. Problem is I purchased my ingredients before doing
proper research into the yeast and bought wyeast 3056. The yeast faq seems
to favor wyeast 3068 over 3056. Is my beer ruined? I would appreciate any
advice from those with 3056 experience. TIA
>From The Land of Pleasant Living, Southern MD
Dave Ludwig
_______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:11:44 -0400
From: troat@one.net (Todd W. Roat)
Subject: Heavy CO2 in fershly bottled
First time I have ever experineced this and wondering what to expect if
anything:
Transfered from secondary to bottling bucket to bottle. While bottling,
each bottle evidenced a GREAT deal of CO2 bubbles and subsequent foam during
bottling. Fairly certain I maintained the usual "quiet" tranfer ensuring
little aeration/agitation. Each bottle had a head like it was already well
carbonated...looked ready to drink right then and there by golly; so glad I
restrained (forceably) myself.
Just curious.
Todd in Cincinnati
(As always: "Too much of everything is just enough!")
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 21:44:41 -0400
From: MClarke950@aol.com
Subject: RE: Washed yeast, Bleach, Ring-around-the-collar
Hi all,
Tim Fields and Richard Scotty were reporting about using washed yeast:
I was wondering how long you kept the yeast. The reason I ask is that I
have washed some yeast about a month ago and I haven't had time to
use it. I have heard estimates of 1 week - 1 month for refridgerated,
washed yeast slurry. I have a couple of questions:
1) Whats the longest slurry can be kept and reused, without adverse effects?
2) What happens to the yeast, that causes it to change? It should be dormant
at this point right? and its under sterile water, so there's no beer for
bacteria
to work on, right?
Tim>>Resulting fermentation had a short lag time and is VERY
Tim>>active, in fact the most active 1056 ferment I've had.
Tim>>I do have one question/observation: this was an all-grain
Tim>>batch (my first). Compared to extract or partial mash (and asside
Tim>>from the effects of pitching more yeast), could this higher
Tim>>fermentation activity be in prt the result of higher FAN levels?
Tim>>If so, this is IMHO a very good argument for using yeast nutrient
Tim>>(which I never used).
My guess would be that the higher pitching rate produced the greater
kraeusen.
A lower FAN level would play more of an influence in producing a higher final
gravity. This is just a guess though.
RE: BLEACH
Gene>>The man at this store mentioned that you should never use
Gene>> bleach as a cleanser at all becasue it adheres too much to
Gene>>glass and plastic. I use a diluted solution, like it says in the
Gene>>Complete Homebrew Guide
Gene>>Any comments for this young brewmeister?
Unscented Bleach is fine. Its probably the most widely sanitizer in
homebrewing today for 3 reasons: 1) It works 2) It's readily
available 3) It's cheap.
RE: Bottle neck rings?
>epeters@rtp.semi.harris.com (Eric Peters 919- 405-3675) Writes:
>>Don't be frightened by white spots or bottle neck rings. My brother
>>and I saw these on about half of the bottles from our first ~100
>>gallons (all were all-grain using Wyeast). None of the bottles were
>> bad.
>I find this statement to be highly suspect. Every time I've tasted beer
>from a bottle that had a ring around the neck, it was infected. Review
>your bottle sanitation procedures. I've ruined my share of batches
>by not getting the bottles clean enough.
>Cheers, Don
I believe Don might be right because of the white spots, but bottle neck
rings sometimes occur when priming with DME instead of corn sugar.
YMMV.
Cheers,
=Mike Clarke in Seattle, WA. USA (MClarke950@aol.com)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 1995 22:36:11 +0500
From: "Pat Babcock" <pbabcock@oeonline.com>
Subject: Webless Flea Market Solved!
Me again.
Thanks to Keith Royster and Dave Draper (Do we Pegasus users need to
develop a secret handshake?!?) I discovered that a funnel shaped icon
was not the electronic equivalent of a beer bong, but actually served
some useful purpose! Votes notwithstanding (Ayes still have it), the
Flea Market echo is hereby and officially terminated!
Instead, send a note to pbabcock@oeonline.com whose subject line is
"send list" in lower case, without the quotes, and next time I check
my mail, you'll automagically receive the listing of the current
HomeBrew Flea Market content!
There, now Chuck? Happy? :-)
Dave? Keith? THANKS!
See ya!
Pat Babcock | "Beer is my obsession, and I'm late for
President, Brew-Master | therapy..." -PGB
and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence
pbabcock@oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB
SYSOP on The HomeBrew University - Motor City Campus BBS (313)397-9758
Visit the Homebrew Flea Market via http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock
------------------------------
Date: 27 Oct 95 06:44:56 EDT
From: Tim Fields <74247.551@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Finnish homebrewers
In #1867, Andy Kligerman (HOMEBRE973@aol.com) writes about Finnish homebrewers:
>I have a friend who is a novice brewer and is spending a year in Helsinki.
>His name is Michael McMillian, and he is having problems getting relatively
>low cost brewing supplies. Can any of the Finnish area homebrewers help him.
> His e-mail address is: mcmillia@penger.helsinki.fi
In case he is not already aware of it, there is a WWW beer page that he
might find some info on: http://karikukko.pc.helsinki.fi/beerinfo.html
"Reeb!" Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA
timf@relay.com (non-brewing time)
timfields@aol.com (weekends)
74247.551@compuserve.com (weekends)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 08:47:16 +0500 ET
From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471@mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject: slant inoculation / filtering
In #1866 Dion asks about the advantages/disadvantages of smearing VS
embedding the loop into the agar when inoculating a plate with yeast.
Then, in #1868 Tracy responds:
> These are actually two different methods, one is a slant, the other is
> a stab. Stabs tend to remain viable longer but it's easier to get more
> inoculum from a slant. I think slants are more appropriate for yeast
> cultures.
Disclaimer: I have never cultured my own yeast and I was previously
unaware of the stab method. However, based on my limited experience in a
college laboratory class and also on explanations from other brewers, here
is what I understand to be the reasoning behind the slant method.
When you first inoculate the loop, there are a large number of yeast cells
on the end of the loop. The loop is then drawn back and forth on the
surface of the agar plate starting at the outer edge and moving toward the
center, as if you are shading in a piece of a pie. As you do this the
largest number of yeasts will be deposited at the outer edge and less will
be deposited toward the center. The loop is then scraped across this
"shaded area" near the center of the plate so as to pickup some more yeast
cells on the loop, but less than was picked up the first time. The agar
plate is then rotated and another pie wedge area is shaded in. This
process is done 3 or 4 times until the whole plate has been inoculated.
The theory behind the method, as I understand it, is that the last few
strokes will have so few yeast cells on the loop, that individual cells
will be deposited, separated from other cells. These individual cells
will then grow pure colonies. The brewer can then look at his plate after
the colonies have developed and pick out the perfectly circular colonies
knowing that they came from individual cells. This helps to eliminate the
posibility of growing a contaminated yeast colony. Supposedly colonies of
"bad" organism would be easy to discern based on appearance and can
therefore be avoided.
#####################################################################
And now for my question: Has anyone ever built a simple/inexpensive beer
filter and would they be willing to share the design?
I currently have a keg of beer that I want to put in bottles with a CP
filler, but there is a considerable amount of sediment from polyclar and
gelatin (I forgot to use IM in the boil and had quite a bit of haze I was
trying to settle out). Everytime I draw a pot, I can see these clearish
particles floating in the glass. Not good! as I was hoping to bottle this
beer and give as holiday gifts.
My idea is to force the beer from one keg to another with a filter
mechanism in line. Any ideas? Oh ya, this beer is already carbonated.
Would this cause a problem during the filtered transfer?
Keith Royster - KRoyster@mro.ehnr.state.nc.us
NC-DEHNR - Div. of Environmental Mgmt.
Mooresville, NC, USA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 09:07:00 EDT
From: uszvnr96@ibmmail.com
Subject: Thanks
Just wanted to write and thank everyone for their responses to my post
regarding a holiday beer. By the way, the ghost writer at this address is:
Bill Bigge "We decided to let Bernie go as
North Canton Highlands Nanobrewery a result of his diminished skills
North Canton, OH on the field"-inexact quote of
uszvnr96@ibmmail.com Bill Belichek when the Browns
released Kosar
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 09:24:22 -0400
From: ac051@osfn.rhilinet.gov (Eric W. Miller)
Subject: re: Using a Blowoff hose...good idea?
Gene Rafter <grafter@creighton.edu> asks about
>the blowoff method
described in The Complete Homebrew Guide found any benefit from this
besides reducing the risk of contamination?
I can't think of any way blowoff would *reduce* the risk of
contamination. If anything, contamination risk will *increase*
because reused blowoff hoses are hard to clean and can harbor
bacteria.
>when I transfered to a secondary carboy I noticed
how much I lost.
Another reason I prefer non-blowoff. Really, it's a matter of
personal preference. I've read that some of the harshly bitter
hop components oxidize into brown gunk in the kraeusen and that
it should be skimmed, but I haven't found any correlation between
amount of brown gunk and harshness in my homebrew.
Here's what I usually do:
I brew six gallon batches split between two five gallon carboys
for primary fermentation. I aerate with a venturi "crimped tube
with holes" aeration wand followed by shaking. I get DO levels
of 8-12 ppm (just kidding, never measured, don't know how). I
siphon from the two fives into either a six or two threes
depending on whether I'm trying a "split batch" experiment.
The biggest problems I see with my method are that it requires
an extra carboy (not a problem for me, I have 2 5's, 2 6's, and
2 3's) and that it requires a bit more work (sanitizing carboy
number two on brew day and cleaning it on racking day).
Eric Miller
Newport, RI
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 23:30:48 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Craft Brewing Beast
I entered the style thread because, in an effort to learn more about excellent
beers, I was reading hundreds of reviews. I felt these placed too much emphasis
on conformity.
Since then I have received a private post
>Re: styles, I've never read anything from you other than complaints about
>the way things are now, and that without having even participated in the
>process as a competitor or a judge. If I missed your exposition of how
>things should be changed to make competitions better, I apologize. I just
>get tired of people complaining without making contributions.
I had hoped people saw something positive and constructive in what I said. I am
an outsider to organized homebrew, very interested in microbrewing. I will
answer as an outsider.
Commercial and hobby craft brewing seem different limbs of a strange animal
indeed. It's a beast really, and the heart of the beast bleeds daily on the HBD!
The hobbyist has no imperatives except enjoyment and goals set by competitions.
What happens at competitions of homebrewers shouldn't matter much to the
health of the Craft Brewing Beast. However as Ken Schroeder points out,
homebrewing has enormous influence over the commercial side of the CBB.
> Most pro brewers in this area (SF Bay Area) that I know (and that is quite a
few)
>all started in homebrewing. When working on a new beer, they go back to their
>roots and brew in home systems. When these pilot batches are perfected, they
>are brough into the brewery in tweaked to accomodate the larger brewing
>volumes and equipment differences. So, new beers, therefore new styles, are
>truely created in the homebrew environmment
In no other industry I know does the amatuer side so influence the professional.
Well defined styles are essential for homebrew competitions and very useful to
micros as references for marketing, and educating their market to better
appreciate their product. The degree of emphasis is another thing. The hobbyist
tends toward narrow styles and classic styles as that gives an air of
objectivity and precision to proceedings. The commercial craft brewer has many
judges who award points through product loyalty, they vote with their glasses.
His/her ultimate gold medal is a collective subjective judgement. That "can't
keep my lips of the glass" feeling becomes the only style that matters.
( I have just read that Ken calls this "character"or "making a statement", Al
calls it "wonderfulness". Hey, we're getting a consensus on technical terms
here!)
The health and future of the commercial part of the beast was my main concern.
I am going to put my money where my mouth is and become a micro soon. If,
influenced by the homebrew arm, micro brewers and reviewers continually put
conformance to style on a pedastel, I beleive this will hinder the maturing of
the industry that looks to homebrewing as its roots. Homebrewing already has
the evaluation tools and judges, it is a question of emphasis.
E.G.
1/ The Aussie wine industry now makes a better chardonnay than the French ever
did. Why? Not because our French winemakers are more talented than theirs. It
is partly because when their representatives came to Australia and said "you
can't make champagne, moselle, bordeaux, burgundy, they are *our* classic
regional styles", we stopped copying the classics. We stopped using second
grade crush for chardonnays (the best French grape becomes champagne), we
changed the growing and fermenting techniques in ways that would be scoffed at
in Reims.
However the result was excellent and the French public are buying it faster
than we can ferment it. Now Australian winemakers are working in France under
contract, redefining the style and technique. The classic styles were the dead
hand of history on progress. Winemaking all over the world has discovered new
standards and has quite rightly forgotten some styles.(Imagine American craft
brewers teaching the Germans, Belgians or English new techniques!)
2/ I can drink 2 litres of a very good beer and enjoy myself. Another occasion,
1 bottle of a different very good beer will make me violently ill the next day.
I would love to scientifically define the hidden quality that my body is a
litmus test for? Quality has other dimensions we now ignore.
3/ The Australian Ad Agencies organization loved to promote their annual awards
for what they thought were great advertisments. Much fanfare and glory. One
heretic, John Singleton, pointed out that in the last 3 years, of the 21 *top*
TV and print ads, 16 agencies had lost that client! (way over normal agency
rotation) The ads were not working in the real world! The awards were a false
standard of excellence for the real world of selling things.
I would love to see the craft brewing industry challenge wine in the fine
drinking market. To do that requires an emphasis on Quality Assurance,
development and marketing. All craft breweries are quite rightly flogging the
personality aspect of their business to the max, it is one of their sustainable
competitive advantages in marketing against industrial beer. Their QA
techniques seem to be getting better, forced on them by an unstable process.
But if we emphasis copying styles and give them great prominence in evaluating
micros, then I beleive the CBB will not evolve as rapidly as it should. It will
be in danger of becoming a sort of stuffed animal in a beer museum.
The industry is on a high in the USA at present, it has barely started here.
When the competition hots up, the CBB will experience a little brewing
Darwinism. What styles will emerge?
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
PS I have been heartened by this thread, it appears the AHA attitude is not
universal, some people have given this subject serious thought.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 07:39:39 -0600 (CST)
From: Robert Schultz <Robert.Schultz@usask.ca>
Subject: Brewpubs/Brewers in Montreal 11-13 1995
There will be a Canadian Institutional Researchers and Planners
Association confernece held in Montreal 11-13 November 1995.
I was wondering if there are any brewers on this list that would want to
get together or could recommend some brewpubs.....
The Conference will be held at the Queen Elizabeth Hotel, Montreal,
Quebec.
Rob.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
URL: http://www.wbm.ca/wilderness email: wilderness@eagle.wbm.ca
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 10:22:29 -0400
From: rhampo@ford.com (Rich Hampo)
Subject: Free Sankey tap claimed
Howdy All,
The Sankey tap has been claimed. Congrats to Tom Sieja,
another FORD (Fraternal Order of Renaissance Draughtsman)
brewer. I hope to sample his beer next week.
Best Regards,
Richard Hampo
H&H Brewing
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 09:29:30 -0500
From: Jay Welther <helpsw@intersurf.com>
Subject: Re: How to use spent grains...
> I was wondering if any of you use your spent grains after you brew for
> anything. Maybe I am just conservative but there must be something I
> can do with these grains after mashing. Any ideas?
I tried making cereal once. I spread enough of the grains out on a cookie
sheet to thinly cover the bottom. I sprinkled brown sugar over the top and
baked in the oven until dry, stirring occasionally. I sampled a pinch or two
that evening and decided that it was good enough to save for our family
breakfast next morning.
The family didn't agree. No one even wanted to try it and I determined that
the beers I drank while brewing must have affected my judgement the night
before. Not one to waste anything, I pressed on. After pouring in the milk
and taking a big spoonful into my mouth, I realized that those people who
make the health food cereal must use more than husks and hulls. Although the
cereal was tasty (like brown sugar mostly), it took quite a while to get
what was in my mouth to a consistency where I felt comfortable swallowing.
My next spoonful was somewhat smaller and the following spoonful was my last.
I haven't given up on the cereal idea and am planning to try again soon,
although a little differently. One positive aspect of this cereal is that
you won't need to brush you teeth in the morning after eating this. You
will, however, spent the next half hour flossing. Better stock up on
toothpicks.
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
Jay Welther - HELP Software Systems - helpsw@intersurf.com
Can someone please tell me who's in charge of passing out the signature files?
- ----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:07:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: RE:Belgian Pale malt
Jim asks:
<My questions is, "What do the Belgians use pale malt for?"
For wonderful versions of English pale ales. Belgian brewers make
some of the best Scotch ales, Christmas ales and other UK styles.
Jim Busch
Colesville, Md
busch@mews.gsfc.nasa.gov
"DE HOPPEDUIVEL DRINKT MET ZWIER 'T GEZONDE BLONDE HOPPEBIER!"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:09:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Racking
Scott asks:
<Sluggish fermentation due to 158 deg mash or premature racking?
The problem is that you racked and left behind in the first vessal
the bulk of the pitched yeast. This is one of the main reasons I never
suggest to brewers that they rack off the cold trub.
Jim Busch
busch@mews.gsfc.nasa.gov
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 09:41:00 PDT
From: "Goodale, Daniel CPT 2AD DISCOM" <GoodaleD@hood-03.army.mil>
Subject: Large Caps
.................and I promise not to use large caps.............
Speaking of large caps, I like to bottle in champagne
bottles. With a snazy label, it makes a great gift (with
Christmas right around the corner). Consiquently I buy
inexpensive champagne for the bottle. I'm always sure to
check if it has the characteristic lip that indicated a bottle that
can be sealed with a crown cap. I came across a sale on a
champagne that came in a heavy green bottle that looked
built to hold 100psi. When I came around to bottling, the caps
i used were too small for the bottle (so much for industry standards).
The question for the collective is; do crown caps come in larger
sizes and if so where do i get some???
E-mail is fine.
Tanks.
Daniel W. Goodale
goodaled@hood-03.army.mil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 10:55:33 EST
From: tim_lawson@mail.msj.edu
Subject: Breiss extract supplier
I'm looking for a good supplier of Briess/NW extracts. I've been
using the Brewplace but have not received good service. I'm aware
that James Page also distributes Briess products, but they are more
expensive than the Brewplace. Can anyone recommend a supplier that
sells Briess at really good prices (the Brewplace sold 6# bags of
extract for about $10)? Please reply privately. Thanks!
Tim Lawson
Cincinnati, Ohio
tim_lawson@mail.msj.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 11:28:47 EDT
From: "Tracy Aquilla" <aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu>
Subject: complex sugars,
In digest #1868:
From: Jim Busch <busch@eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Wort O2/sugars
Jim says:
>The unfermentable complex sugars are: pentoses; xylose, arabinose and
>ribose...trisaccharides panose and isopanose (up to 40% can be fermented by
>some yeasts). The disaccharide melibose is only fermented by lager yeasts.
Are these really "complex" sugars? I believe all the sugars listed above are
actually simple unfermentable sugars. Perhaps the trisaccharides can be
considered complex, although that would be pushing the definition a bit, but
mono and disaccharides are certainly not complex sugars; complex implies
that they're polymers (or at least oligomers). Part of the problem may be
the fact that the term sugar is often used rather loosely to describe any
and all carbohydrates, including starches.
Tracy in Vermont
aquilla@salus.med.uvm.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 11:46:34 EST
From: "MSG Richard Smith" <QR1661@trotter.USMA.EDU>
Subject: Wyeast 1056 Follow-up and Mash Temp Thread
This is a follow-up to my original posting in HB1859 re
a problem with Wyeast 1056. I received the following private
responses with results as follows:
2 stated no problems with 1056 although one noted a an odd
looking yeast cake after racking off the primary and sub-
sequent problems with repitching.
1 stated that the starter smelled funny, but pitched anyway.
8 stated problems with either the starter
or the batch and discarded same.
In addition I have noted several public responses on
the HBD since with varying but more-negative-than-not
results.
I have been away, and so have yet to contact Wyeast for any
information.
Take these results for what they are worth. For me, I won't
use 1056 for awhile. Thanks to all who have responded.
#####
On another note, I have been trying to follow the 40/60/70
mash temp thread, but confess to being a bit lost. Why 40C (104F)?
In my Papazian/Miller library I find the recommended temperature for
the protein rest 122-135 or somewhere in between. Personnally, I have
been using a rest at 131 F to increas head retention and cut down on
chill haze. What's the benefit of 104F? Also, what about the 60C
(140F) rest? That's supposed to be the high end of the protein rest
and the optimal temp for beta-amylase activity. Are these the two aims
of this rest?
Also, since there are many types of malt available, I would like to see
discussions of mash temps include a blurb about what types of malt
a particular mash-schedule is suited for. Just a few thoughts.
-Jack in West Point
>>>>>
Richard J. Smith
qr1661@trotter.usma.edu
72154.516@compuserve.com
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 11:58:31 -0400
From: MAURAPAT@aol.com
Subject: Brew on Premises
A group of us who are opening a new homebrew supply shop have decided to
expand to include a brew on premises facility as well. We've gotten
information from all of the usual suspects like Custom Brew and The Brew
Store who put these systems together. Unfortunately, they are pretty
expensive. We spoke to the guys at The Modern Brewer in Boston who told us
that they had bought their system used from a place in Ontario that had gone
out of business. Which brings me to the point of my posting. Does anyone
know of a facility going out of business? Or if not, could everyone keep
their ear to the ground for anyplace that may be going out of business? I
know this sounds like a bit of ambulance chasing but money is tight. I know
there are quite a few going under in Ontario due to a new tax that has been
imposed.
TIA
Beer is our bond
Patrick Higgins and Maura Kilgore
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Date: 27 Oct 95 12:00:27 EDT
From: "William D. Knudson" <71764.203@compuserve.com>
Subject: American Lager
In HBD 1864 Ken Schroeder responds to Rich Scotty about AOB, AB, Miller,
Budswilloors, $$$ etc. I'm sorry but I take exception to this kind of big three
bashing. The big three still provide more beer to more people than 'Craft
brewers'. So how can AOB ignore their niche? I ask the collective: how many of
you submitted American Lager to the competition only to have it mysteriously
disappear?
You want cynicism? I live in Boulder Colorado and although I haven't been to
all the GABF's, I gone to most of them. Back in the 80's we remember when Sam
Adams had the ladies in black danskins handing out hats, pins and shirts within
the confines of the GABF. The theme: vote for Sam Adams! The next year a
friend of mine got free tickets to GABF. I asked where he got the tickets: "I
dunno, alls I know is that my friend who scored them said we had to vote for Sam
Adams." That year the GABF banned the distribution of 'premiums' (those
freebies). It didn't matter, the shrewdness of Jim Koch had the distribution
points moved to the parking lot and they hit people as they went into the hall.
SA won again. Good beer, but come on. Ken says "...Give'm medals to adorn
corporate headquarters", different tactic - same result, no?
I get the feeling sometimes that we beersnobs (I admit it) think that the world
would be a better place if the big three disappeared today, or that we'd sooner
be dead than drink that swill. What do you do when you're in BF Egypt and all
that they sell is that stuff?
And its all relative, I remember 15 years ago I was on a train in California. I
met a couple of British guys in the bar car. They were drinking Budweiser (not
much choice). I asked them what they thought of American beer. "Its like
water" "Yeah", I said, "in some circles it's universally disliked, imports
preferred. What beer is widely disliked in Britain?" "Watneys", they replied,
"It's plastic beer, nothing but chemicals, total rubbish!"
Look at what's happening in Germany. Hell, there's only one operating brewery
left in Kulmbach they've all been bought out by the German biggies. What's this
world coming to?
The big three have a hard time satisfying everybody all the time. That's OK, if
they did, many of us might not spent as many late nights removing trub, wort
chilling, worrying etc. Who of us wouldn't give our left gonad to have the
quality and consitency of the biggies? They're here to stay, and I don't
understand why their presence irritates so many.
Tschuss!
Bill
Ich kann besser Deutsch, wenn ich etwas Bier getrunken habe!
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 12:17:42 -0400
From: Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Grain Toasting/Roasting/kilning, temperature
Rich Scotty writes:
>Eric Miller speaks about his experiences with grain toasting and the
>bitterness that it imparted to his beer. In preparation for brewing a nut
>brown ale last weekend, I tried toasting 1 pound of Hugh Baird 2 row pale in
>a 375 degree oven for 40 minutes. The first result of this experiment was a
>rather unpleasant aroma that caused significant friction with the spousal
>unit. She walked around making faces and commenting on the noxious smell -
>she was right too.
[...]
>separating the husks and tasting the grist to see if the nasty bitterness has
>anything to do with tannins in the husks. My question for the digest: Is
>there a specific type of malt that does well in the toasting process? I
>really liked the nutty character of this experiment, but need to lose this
>powerful bitterness.
...
I think the attempt to roast or kiln malts at any temperature
approaching 375F is misguided. 'Malting and Brewing Science' by
Briggs et al., is a bit vague about some aspects of the process, but
does state that after drying the grain ... "In 'traditional' malting
the temperatures attained in curing will be about 80-105C(176-221F)
for pale malts or 95-105C(176-221F) for dark malts." [vol I, pp 176].
Times aren't stated but from the detailed description of old style
kiln units I would expect it to take many hours.
In Dave Miller's 'CHoHB' chapter 30, he creates Vienna and Munich
style malts by kilning pale grain in an oven at 212F - 225F (100-107C)
for three hours. Obviously if you want something around 100L it will
take longer. I tried Miller's method years ago w/o any off odors.
I suspect Rich is correct about the husk being a major source of the
problem. It's probably not from the starches based on experience
baking bread (mostly wheat starch) at similar temperatures and time.
The bread crust reaches oven temperature and certainly doesn't exhibit
any foul odors.
Stevea
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Date: 27 Oct 95 13:02:31 EDT
From: Tim Fields <74247.551@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE Iodophor rinsing
Hello All,
We've had several iodophor-related postings of late, some of which talk
about rinsing vs not rinsing. Some say rinse, some say they don't.
Seems to me that the bottle I have indicates that you can *drip dry* (or
words to that effect) without rinsing. Big difference between using a
WET non-rinsed item and a DRY non-rinsed item. I always rinse because I
never have the time to let it dry and I'm concerned about 1) iodophor
flavored beer, and 2) sanitizing (aka killing) my yeast with any wet
iodophor residue.
I could save a good bit of bottle sanitizing time if I eliminated the
rinse step and just took them directly from the iodophor soak to the
dishwasher (for heat cycle to dry them). Would doing this risk
iodophor-flavored beer or sanitized yeast-in-the-bottle?
"Reeb!" Tim Fields ... Fairfax, VA
timf@relay.com (non-brewing time)
timfields@aol.com (weekends)
74247.551@compuserve.com (weekends)
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 15:05:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: gtd862a@prism.gatech.edu (M. Blind)
Subject: Re: Fischer d'Alsace and french
In regards to recipe formulation for a Fischer clone, well, I hope this
information will get you off on the right foot.
Alsace-Lorraine borders on the southern portion of Germany, and in many
ways the style of beer brewed there is similar to a German Alt.
The main difference I can find is that Fischer seems to be somewhat higher in
alcohol content, and is hopped at a lower rate. I tried brewing a clone of
this myself for about six months or so; I personally found it very
difficult to get the hop flavor of the original, and my beer had a lower
attenuation and more malty character due to the yeast (or methods) that I
used. I eventually came up with a very nice mild brown, which tasted
nothing like the Fischer, but which suited my personal pallette so well
that I kept on brewing it.
YMMV, of course, so don't assume the style is hard to duplicate. The
beers of this region have a lot to recommend them, so I wish you every
luck in your endeavor to duplicate them.
Matthew Blind
Dorm-brewer, purveyor of "Hide-it-from-the-Freshmen" Ale
Georgia Tech, Atlanta, Georgia
- --
M. Blind | "What's going on, Mr. Peterson?"
gtd862a@prism.gatech.edu | "A flashing sign in my gut that says,
http://acmex.gatech.edu:8001/~gtd862a | * Insert beer here * "
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 15:42:25 EDT
From: uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Subject: RE: rings
>epeters@rtp.semi.harris.com (Eric Peters 919- 405-3675) writes:
>>Don't be frightened by white spots or bottle neck rings. My brother
>>and
>>I saw these on about half of the bottles from our first ~100 gallons
>>(all
>>were all-grain using Wyeast). None of the bottles were bad.
and DHatlestad@aol.com responds:
>I find this statement to be highly suspect. Every time I've tasted beer
>from a bottle that had a ring around the neck, it was infected. Review
>your bottle sanitation procedures. I've ruined my share of batches
>by not getting the bottles clean enough.
A ring around the neck _often_ signals an infection, but you (and beer
judges) should not make an automatic assumption about such things.
Priming with DME is said to cause a ring, stray hop particles in a dry
hopped beer can float to the top of the liquid and cause a ring, fruit or
spiced beers may also have bits of things that can float and adhere to the
neck, et cetera. Not aesthetically pleasing, perhaps, but not a guaranteed
infection either. If you found that none of the bottles was bad, then you
ought to know.... There's no reason to find it suspect; lots of things can
make rings. (It is, of course, always good to make sure you're being sanitary
anyway)
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Madison
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 13:55:54 -1000
From: jdud@mcn.net (J Dudley Leaphart)
Subject: Figuring pressure/temperature to carbonate kegs?
I have been using Byron Burch's chart for figuring what pressure &
temperature to use to carbonate kegs to a desired level. What I would like
to know; is there is a formula to use to figure out levels that aren't on
the chart? Say I want to carbonate a weizen in the high 3's and my chart
only goes to 3.02, how can I figure it?
Thanks
J Dudley Leaphart oOo Billings, MT oOo dud@mcn.net
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 13:38:46 -0600 (MDT)
From: walter@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Brian J Walter (Brewing Chemist))
Subject: American Brewers Guild HB courses
Howdy,
Has anyone attended the American Brewers Guild "Advanced Homebrewers
Weekend Series" course? It is a two day course. I am looking for some
opinions of this course and of the Am Brewers Guild.
Thanks,
- --bjw
Brian J Walter Chemistry Graduate Student walter@lamar.colostate.edu
RUSH Rocks Best Homebrewer & BJCP Certified Beer Judge Go Pack!
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 95 16:35 EDT
From: cdp@chattanooga.net (C.D. Pritchard)
Subject: Re: Wyeast 1056
>I recently had a batch go bad during primary fermentation. I was using Wyeast
>1056, no starter, just pitched the swollen pack into the cooled wort.
>Fermentation caught on after 24 hours and went for a week. After fermentation
>ended I racked to the secondary; I was confounded by the nasty, green apple
>smell during the racking...
>Has anyone else had this problem with the September crop of Wyeast 1056?
I've a batch made with 1056 with a 9-27-95 date in the secondary now. No
problems at all. I always taste and smell the starter and hydrometer
samples and they were all fine. The package was about to bust in <24 hours!
Was started in 8 oz. of 1.030 wort and stepped up to 2 qts. The starter was
3 or 4 days past high krausen when pitched. Starter and primary ferment was
done at 70-75 degF.
C.D. Pritchard cdp@chattanooga.net
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 16:11:59 -0400
From: WALZENBREW@aol.com
Subject: Chlorine Bleach
On the subject of bleach: It's still the BEST and MOST ECONOMICAL sanitizer
for general purpose use in the home brewery. The advantages of bleach over
the other sanitizers out there for sanitizing non-metallic items pretty much
outweigh the disadvantages. Bleach is cheap, available anywhere, and does
the job extremely well. Bleach also rinses off most equipment with warm
water; this only becomes a disadvantage if the bacteriological content of
your water is suspect (with Iodaphors you can air-dry without rinsing, but
Iodaphor is about six times as expensive as bleach). Bleach is also an
excellent cleaner and dissolves organic matter, which most other sanitizers
don't do. Disadvantages of bleach are mostly related to it's corrosive
tendencies, especially with respect to chrome-plated metal (like on pin-lock
hose disconnects) and copper (NEVER use bleach to sanitize copper items). It
also can discolor hoses (makes them milky colored) if left in contact for
long periods.
I use bleach throughout my brewery, and only use Iodaphor for sanitizing my
copper wort chiller. Even when cleaning/sanitizing my stainless kegs, I use
bleach (hot water + bleach+ TSP for cleaning; 3/4 cup bleach in 5 gallons
warm water for sanitizing) because I don't leave it in contact for more than
an hour. In other words, for sanitizing carboys, hoses, bottles, and other
non-metallic items, bleach is hard to beat. I've found the 3/4 cup of bleach
(5.25% hypochlorite strength) to five gallons works best, even though this is
overkill - with this concentration you can let the bucket of solution sit all
day without worrying about it losing strength. If you use too much bleach it
won't work as well - "too much" is when it feels slippery between your
fingers - you need to add more water.
Cheers,
Greg Walz
WALZENBREW@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 16:12:06 -0400
From: WALZENBREW@aol.com
Subject: Mushroom Corks
Is there anything on the market that enables you to insert corks 1/2 way into
champagne or used lambic bottles? Tried doing this by hand with corks soaked
in boiling water and about 1/2 of them ripped apart in the process - a royal
pain. Want to put up a Flanders Brown in wine/Belgian bottles with corks,
but it's proving to be a lot of trouble - and I hate the thought of using
those plastic mushroom corks!
Thanks,
Greg Walz
WALZENBREW@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 16:12:11 -0400
From: WALZENBREW@aol.com
Subject: Labels and Bulging Cans
B-Brite sanitizer is by far the best method of getting rid of ALL labels,
including the metallic ones. It dissolves the metal in the label, thereby
allowing the glue to be dissolved. Of course, it destroys the label in the
process, so don't use it on any you want to save. It's important if you use
B-Brite on metal labels to NEVER allow the B-brite and metal-particle
solution get INSIDE the bottle - otherwise the metal particles will coat the
inside of the bottle, rendering it useless.
My process is to fill a 5-gallon bucket 1/3 full with hot water, add about
three heaping tablespoons of B-Brite, and dissolve. I'll fill the clean
bottles with hot water and stand them up in the bucket, which raises the
level. When all are added I'll top up the bucket water until it's just above
the neck label, but well below the top of the bottle. The labels will start
to come off in about 10-15 minutes. Use a dishwashing sponge (abrasive side)
when rinsing the bottle to remove the last of the crud. And don't throw the
used solution down the drain (unless you want to keep your plumber busy)!
On bulging extract cans: I've had this happen occasionally and it's not
Botulism. It means the extract is getting old and some delayed reactions are
taking place in the can. You can still brew with it, but you'll get that
classic "extract" twang in the flavor, the taste that judges invariably mark
down (way down) as a flaw. So if you don't mind that awful "extract" taste,
it'll still make drinkable beer. Just make sure the can hasn't been
punctured; don't use a dented can that bulges. Best advice is to throw it
away and brew with fresh ingredients - or use it to make yeast starters.
Prosit!
Greg Walz
WALZENBREW@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 27 Oct 1995 16:14:22 -0400
From: KennyEddy@aol.com
Subject: Sparge Water Heater; N.A. Beer
****In-Line Sparge Water Heating:
The suggestion of using a hetart to heat sparge water in-line is intriguing.
I might suggest something along the lines of a water-heater immersion
element in a copper pipe or a hot-water-compatible plastic pipe (ensuring the
element doesn't touch the sides!). Some sort of temeprature control would be
necessary; a thermostat or simple manual operation. Size the pipe to get the
temperature rise and volume desired. A truly in-line or "real-time" system
would probably require a small-diameter pipe to heat the cool inlet water
quickly. Again, temperature control seems tricky, especially since the
element will have significant thermal mass compared with the (small amount
of) water.
****Non-Alcoholic Beer:
I read an interesting apporach concerning Non-Alcoholic beer production, I
believe off a link from The Brewery's (http://alpha.rollanet.org) technical
article category. It suggests heating the beer to only about 100F, and using
a vacuum pump to extract the alcohol, since its vapor pressure is so much
lower than water's. What about hop volatiles? The article suggests some
reduction in hop character but not total, meaning (I assume) that one could
simply increase the "hop bill" at brew-time to compensate. The advantage of
this apprach is the elimination of the "cooked taste" associated with heat
de-alcoholization (is that really a word?). Thought it was a good idea.
Ken Schwartz
KennyEddy@aol.com
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End of HOMEBREW Digest #1870, 10/30/95
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