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HOMEBREW Digest #1857
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/10/14 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1857 Sat 14 October 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Elephant Red, airstones (CGEDEN)
Vanilla Summary / Wort Chiller ("Herb B. Tuten")
BruProbe and Austrailian ale yeast (Bryan L. Gros)
apple wine (Electtech)
news from Slovak Republic (uswlsrap)
RE:Broadway Brewing & hunter s. thompson ("Marc Hugentobler")
Re: Aluminum Brew Pots (John DeCarlo )
Kicking Pete W. for putting diacetyl in the water supply? (Russell Mast)
root beer (Scott E. Bratlie)
Let's try that phantom Broadway post again.... (uswlsrap)
Brew School ("Jared B Froedtert")
Bavarian Weizen (Eric Marzewski)
Mash Tun Heating/All Grain Questions ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
Los Angeles Times Beer Column ?? (dhvanvalkenburg)
re: Rootbeer warning! (blacksab)
Re: chiller improvements, diacetyl on purpose (Jim Dipalma)
Re: Pump Aeration Foam (Tim Fields)
lemon balming (Rob Lauriston)
Re: New Brewing Gadget (Spencer W Thomas)
Brewing Software (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
Aluminium pots (Staff) <b.j.craven@psych.stir.ac.uk>
Beta-amylase at 140F (60C) (Steve Alexander)
Correction on : Beta-amylase at 140F (60C) (Steve Alexander)
Sorry & "RIMS" (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
Re: Paddle Finish (Tim Fields)
N2O in beer (John McCauley)
Irish Moss/Double Posting (gravels)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 11:09:24 EDT
From: CGEDEN@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU
Subject: Elephant Red, airstones
Yesterday I noticed a new beer in our local store - Elephant Red. The
side label is what intrigued me - The beer is imported by A-B from Canada
where it is brewed by Labatt's under the supervision of Carlsborg. WHat
is this stuff, and why such a strange business arrangement? In the store
it was positioned with the other A-B products, and the alcohol content
was prominently posted on the label (5.7% or so) in the manner of ice
beers.
beers. Is this just another move by the big guys to hog all the shelf space
in the stores?
Like several recent posters I too get frustrated by froth when using
airstones on 5-gal batches of wort in 5 or 6.5 gal carboys. I also use
an immersion chiller to cool the wort in a 10-gal brewpot. Is there any
compelling reason not to use the airstone in the brewpot after the wort
has been chilled and before transfer to the carboy? Head space problems
would be eliminated this way, but would it create other problems? Like what?
You know, "aerated cold break causes SS to leach out cadmium, lead and mercury"
, "trub won't settle if its oxygenated", that sort of thing.
TIA, Chris Geden in Gainesville, FL
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 11:36:02 EDT
From: "Herb B. Tuten" <HERB@zeus.co.forsyth.nc.us>
Subject: Vanilla Summary / Wort Chiller
Thanks to all who responded to my query about vanilla
flavoring. Here is a summary of the answers I got........
In stout, 3 or 4 drops added per bottle before capping was good.
Vanilla should be good with toasty flavors like stout or porter.
In porter, tried 2 beans cut lengthwise, not enough!
Added vanilla to Papazian's Rocky Raccoon Crystal Honey
Lager - very good.
Vanilla might be good in brown ale or English ale.
Vanilla is good in Christmas Spiced Ale.
Add vanilla in secondary or at bottling. Volatile oils don't do
well if boiled, also don't do well in primary.
And so, in spite of all conventional wisdom, I brewed a pale ale
last night and I intend to add 3 or 4 vanilla beans to secondary.
At bottling I can decide if drops are needed depending on aroma
and taste. I'll let you know how it goes.
Also last night I built and used an immersion chiller. Many thanks
to Kenneth Goodrow's most excellent plans, as posted here recently.
BTW, after much pondering and searching the hardware store for
a fitting that would connect the plastic tubing to the faucet, an idea
hit me. I bought a simple 3/8 to 1/2 connector. At home I slid the 3/8
end into the 3/8 ID hose and clamped it. Then I took a large knife
outside and performed a 3-feet-length-ectomy at the faucet end of a
leaky garden hose (we were planning to buy a new hose anyway).
I brought my length of hose inside and clamped the 'cut' end to the
1/2" side of the connector. The 'screw-on' end of the green hose
easily screws on to a garden hose faucet adaptor, which is easily
found at the store if you don't have one.
I still can't believe that I cooled my boiling wort down in 20 minutes!
Cheers,
Herb
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 09:49:39 -0700
From: bgros@mindseye.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: BruProbe and Austrailian ale yeast
blacksab@siu.edu wrote
>
>I've got a couple of questions for the collective:
>
>1. Has anyone used the BruProbe and BruTemp(tm) from JB Distributing? I'm
>not real good with electronics, but I'm fairly handy, and this seems like a
>good entrance into it. Anyone had any experience?
I bought the BruProbe and I like it a lot. I went to an electronics store
and got a
female plug to go on the plug on the BruProbe. Then I just wired two leads
to a
9V battery connector and 2 leads to RCA plugs to go into a digital
multimeter that
I had. I just read out volts on the multimeter which corresponds to
temperature.
Using the BruProbe is another matter. Since it is so sensitive and the
readout is
so precise, you start to wonder whether you want the top of the mash to be
at your
temperature goal, the bottom of the mash or what. I mash in a converted pony
keg, so the bottom of the keg gets very hot from the burner, and thus continues
to heat the mash after the burner is off. A lot of stirring, of course,
helps even
out the temperature, but that gets to be a PITA. I wonder how people claim to
get mash temps of 157F and know they are not at 156 or 159? I believe someone
posted something like this earlier this week.
My second question is whether anyone has experience with the Austrailian ale
yeast from Yeast labs (I think). Some members of my club professed great
results with this yeast, and remarked that it seemed to ferment out in three
days. I've been using it the last few batches, the last two of which I
pitched on
the dregs of the secondary. While fermentation did seem to be complete in
about three days, SG measurements indicated that fermentation continued
slowly over the next week or so. I bottled when the FG got to about 12. I
notice now that most of my bottles are overcarbonated. Seems like this
yeast keeps going slowly for quite a while. I'm going back to Wyeast. Any
comments?
- Bryan
bgros@mindseye.berkeley.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 12:46:45 EST
From: Electtech@smtpgate.octrf.on.ca
Subject: apple wine
I'm looking for a recipie and method of making apple wine
from 5 gal of freshly pressed apple juice. Much appreciated!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 13:56:22 EDT
From: uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Subject: news from Slovak Republic
Warning: Beer-related, but not homebrewing-related| Just trying to
spread a little information....
A tiny item in the bottom corner of the front of the business section
(Milwaukee Journalsentinel) notes that Dutch giant Heineken has acquired
a 66% stake in Zlaty Bazant, a brewery in the Slovak Republic.
As a matter of international concern, this may not be anything on the
scale of Anheuser-Busch's attempt to swallow up Budvar, but I'm wondering
if any of you knows anything about the brewery and its beer. How about
some of you folks who had the luxury of making beer trips to Central/Eastern
Europe this summer? (And, more importantly, does Roger Baylor know
about this? :-) )
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Madison
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 12:32:10 GMT+700
From: "Marc Hugentobler" <MARHUG@TELECOM.USU.EDU>
Subject: RE:Broadway Brewing & hunter s. thompson
>As to the Road Dog "controversy", it revolves around the label for the
>bottles. Hunter Thompson, a self described gonzo writer, helped design the
>label. Toward the bottom of the label on either side of the graphic, it
I don't claim to know anything about the aforementioned brewer but I
did catch a glimpse of the label. I wonder if instead of Hunter s.
Thompson "designing" the label, you mean Ralph Steadman the unique
and wonderful illustrator that creates the appropriate illustrations
for his books?;'>
And now on to a more beer related note. I had the opportunity to
induct several club members into the GABF ritual this year. It was
excellent as usual. Watching them walk around wide-eyed and confused
was even better. Did anybody think the winners of the medals this
year, were off a bit( not entirely). Some of the golds seemed
entirely average while the categories that had no gold medals...I
found several. Difference of taste can account for some variance. I
discussed it with my club members and they seemed to agree.
I don't know, but it would be interesting to hear some other
reactions.
Cheers,
Marc
:-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
Marhug@telecom.usu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 14:29:00 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo@homebrew.mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Aluminum Brew Pots
There have been two worries about using aluminum pots for brewing. 1)
Possible metallic tastes from the aluminum. 2) Concern about dietary
aluminum being unhealthful.
I wouldn't worry about either of these with a decent quality aluminum pot
that is well cared for. Treat it the way you would for cooking. For
instance, there is a reason it has a dull finish on the inside--don't remove
that coating to make the pot shiny! The oxide coating (or whatever is used
on your pot) helps keep the aluminum on the pot and out of your food/wort.
I have definitely tasted the metallic aluminum when cooking spaghetti sauce
for a couple of hours in a freshly scrubbed, shiny aluminum pot--neither of
us knew any better at the time.
If you have *any* worries, I would simmer spaghetti sauce in there for a
couple of hours--if any aluminum is capable of leaching in there, you will
definitely taste it. If the sauce tastes non-metallic, you can use it for
your wort without worries.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 14:03:39 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Kicking Pete W. for putting diacetyl in the water supply?
> From: David Oliver <dwo@slip.net>
> Here in California the govenor is considering making it manditory that
> all city water systems add flouride to the drinking water. Will this be
> detramental to brewing?
No, but if you're in the John Burke Society, drinking it will turn you into
a Marxist.
> From: kuebeler@PICARD.tamu.edu (Mark Kuebeler)
> Subject: Giving a stuck batch a kick in the ass?
> My primary fermenter should be free this weekend, and I'm thinking of
> racking the still-fermenting batch back to that after stirring up the
> sediment at the bottom of the carboy. I'm hoping this will wake up
> enough dormant yeast to finish the job without having to resort to
> pitching another dose of fresh yeast. I don't think it will hurt, but
> the question is, can it help? :)
Everytime you rack, you risk infection and oxidization. If you want to
"rouse" the yeast (not arouse, you perverts), just swish the carboy around
a bit. Also, if you're going to add more yeast, why not just add it to the
secondary?
> From: "Robert Marshall" <robertjm@hooked.net>
> Call me a sick puppy, but what do I do to specifically get more
> diacetyl on purpose????
It's not sick, lots of good beers do on that. Just do the things they tell
you to avoid to prevent diacetyl. (I forget what that is, though...)
-R
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 13:07:20 -0600
From: bratlie@selway.umt.edu (Scott E. Bratlie)
Subject: root beer
I have recently brewed root beer that everyone who has tasted it
loves. I was not
happy with all the recipes in the root beer faq or others that I found, I
was trying to replicate
something similar to Black Dog Ale root beer, of Spanish Peaks brewing
Bozeman Montana
(NO affilation Blah Blah Blah). So what I did was use the ingredients on
there bottle and
extrapelate the quanities from the faq and therest of my sources. L.N.N.
are my three daughters
if you are wondering. Now does anyone know how to get this into The Cats Meow?
L.N.N. ROOT BEER 5gal.
2 oz Shilling extract
1 1/2 cups Light Molases
4 lbs Light brown sugar
1 cup Vanilla extract
1/4 teaspoon of Ale yeast
Bottle and let sit for about 48 hours at room temp. then refrigerate and enjoy.
Scott Bratlie
Missoula, Montana
Bratlie@selway.umt.edu
"A nation may lose its liberties in a day and
not miss them in a century."
Montesquieu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:55:42 EDT
From: uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Subject: Let's try that phantom Broadway post again....
Something went wrong with my post about Broadway Brewing: the _correction_
showed up in 1855, but not the original post sent immediately before it.
Here it is again, with the correction included. (Now that the other post
in 1855 confirms that the brewery is indeed B'way Br., I've deleted a
disclaimer that I might not have heard the brewery name correctly, and
deleted some other text as well.)
D.J. Glantz <djgst7+@pitt.edu> asks about Broadway Brewing in Colorado:
I can't tell you very much about the beer, but I can share something I
heard on "As it Happens" last Friday. Apparently, they ran into a little
trouble with the Colorado authorities over the label. No, they didn't
commit the crime of providing nutritional information, as did Mr. Grant;
'twas far worse: apparently someone was upset about the following words
on the label: "Good Beer, No Shit!" Something about references to excretory
functions being inappropriate.
Did anyone else hear that interview?
Maybe they could provide some additional information: aih@toronto.cbc.ca
It doesn't tell you a lot about the brewery, but it is an amusing anecdote
(or it would be if it weren't so sad to see a brewer being harassed) and it
was an opportunity for craft brewing to get on the airwaves.
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Madison
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 15:55:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Jared B Froedtert" <froedter@pilot.msu.edu>
Subject: Brew School
Aloha everbody,
Eventhough i'm not in hawaii, i still like to use the word. Anyway, i was
wondering if anybody out there could point me in the direction of a brew
school. I know there are some in Cali, and Chi town, but i have no names or
leads. Please e-mail me privately or post it, i don't care.
I have another question maybe someone could help me with. I brew my first
all-grain batch a couple of weeks ago and used Saaz hops in it. Just exactly
how SPICY is Saaz suppose to be? I used it as a finishing hop. And it came
out very spicy tasting, not that it's bad, its actually quite different and
pretty good IMO.
C-YA.......
Jared B. Froedtert
froedter@pilot.edu.msu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 16:17:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Marzewski <emarzews@nova.umuc.edu>
Subject: Bavarian Weizen
My favorite beer style is a (southern Bavarian) Weizen. When living in
Germany (90-92'), I slowly fell in love with this style. I have used
several different Weizen strains from yeast sources and streaked from
bottles and still haven't decided what is the best strain for a really
good BAVARIAN styled weizen. In Germany: Maisels, Erdinger, Schnieder,
Paulaner, ect the list goed on for local Bavarian GOOD Weizens. In the
states I like; Paulaner, Ayinger, Weinstepen and Erdinger. It largely
depends on how old the batch was and how it was handled (if only
alll retailers and distributors would realize this, they'd sell a lot
more beer, fresh is good)
So..... what I am asking is one and all Weizen lovers. PLEASE let me know
your opinion and suggestions to brew a great Southern Bavarian Weizen Bier.
(All grain, 40/60 Barley Wheat??)(If you reply pls. also send to me directly)
I also enjoy Theo DeGroens Weizen @ Baltimore Brewing Co. His Weizen
Bock was great!!!
Thanx to any and all lovers Liquid Bread!
Cheers,
Eric Marzewski
Home: 410 519 0828
email: emarzews@nova.umuc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 13:50:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR@afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Mash Tun Heating/All Grain Questions
In #1855 Doug Roberts said:
> The mass of the 15.5 gallon SS keg + grains & water provides a pretty
> good thermal flywheel: it is only sometimes necessary to add heat to
> maintain desired mashing temperatures. However it only takes a minute
> or so to boost the temperature if needed.
My experience at sacch rest temps is that my burner has to be fired
for about 60s every 9-10 minutes to maintain within a 1F deadband.
Gerald Wirtz asked about his low yield and sparging:
> I think that I should have left the spigot only open so a trickle
> come out. And also kept the water level above the grain bed.
I've found this to be true--try to maintain efflux and influx at the
same rate and try to maintain some grain bed cover. Batch sparging
by draining the tank then filling with water seriously reduces the
extraction. I have not found any important effects of letting the
water go below the grain bed surface, though, but still try to keep
a cover. He also asked:
> Does 'cleared' mean clear like water or clear you can see thru?
Clear like a colored glass: having color but little turgidity due
to suspended particles. Again, this is really nice to have but
I have seen no correlation between the clarity of the wort going
into the kettle and the ability of the beer to clear in the conditioning
tank (or secondary). It may effect astringency, however.
KRF Colorado Springs
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 16:02:36 PST
From: dhvanvalkenburg@CCGATE.HAC.COM
Subject: Los Angeles Times Beer Column ??
This is for those of you in the S. Calif area that
would like to see more articles, or how about a regular
column on beer in the food section of the LA Times.?
--------------------------------------------------
I have been on a one person campaign for several months
now to get the LA Times to devote as much space for
beer as they do for wine. I have written, faxed, and
phoned, but just one person's interest is not going to
get the attention of the LA Times. I have even
provided them with written material they could print,
however they have not been responsive to me. But, if
they get enough cards, letters, calls, faxes, etc.
perhaps they will realize that there is just as many,
maybe more out there that would like to read about
beer. A column that talked about beer could cover a
wide range of topics and still be of interest to all
readers, not just homebrewers. For example they could
cover a different style each week and not run out of
topics. Not to mention all the new brew pubs oppening
up.
They have a regular wine column and is beer not
consumed by more people than wine? Does it not deserve
as much space? I think they should give equal time to
the beer drinkers in their audience. If you agree
please write, FAX, or phone the individual below and in
your own words tell her you would like to have equal
time to wine.
Hey that rhymes -- a good slogan for a movement?
Equal time to wine
Equal time to wine
Equal time to wine
I will get off my soap box now and give you the names
and addresses.
Los Angeles Times
Att: Food Editor - Laurie Ochoa
Times Mirror Square
Los Angeles, California
90053
Phone # 213 237-7000
FAX # 213 237-4712
Thanks, Don Van Valkenburg
dhvanvalkenburg@ccgate.hac.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 19:21:33 -0500
From: blacksab@siu.edu
Subject: re: Rootbeer warning!
I can't put my finger on it right now, but I read very recently that
Sassafras root is not only mildly poisonous, but that the FDA has also made
it illegal to sell (I'm talking about the root here, and not the bark). I
might even have read this on the rootbeer page that Mark mentioned, and I
recall the discussion being rather emphatic. I'm out of town right now and
don't have all my stuff with me, so I can't post the details, but thought
the warning should be made anyway. Anyone know anyhing more on this subject?
I for one would be REAL curious to know the level of danger present because
there is all kinds of Sassafras down in Carbondale, and I was very
disappointed when I read it because at the time I was thinking about making
some.
On another note, I was paging thru a woodworking catalog today and ran
across the following: Router speed controls--Control the speed of your
router bit with the twist of a dial; works with any AC/DC universal motor;
can be used on drills, routers, grinders...110VAC/15Amp=$29.95;
110VAC/20Amp=$34.95; 220VAC/20Amp=$39.95. This is from a Trend-Lines catalog
1-800-767-9999.
I've seen these things advertised before, and never gave them much thought
since my big router is already variable speed, but for controlling a pump
in a RIMS, they might be ideal. Anyone had any experience? When I get back
to Carbondale, I'll check some catalogs and post a list of suppliers (Don't
hold your breath, I'll be in Chicago until at least 7 Nov).
--Harlan
****************************************************************************
* Harlan Bauer ...malt does more than Milton can *
* <blacksab@siu.edu> To justify God's ways to man. *
* Carbondale, IL --A.E. Houseman *
* *
****************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 17:35:10 EDT
From: dipalma@sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: Re: chiller improvements, diacetyl on purpose
Hi All,
In HBD#1855, Chuck Wettergreen writes about immersion chilling:
>Recently I've made some dramatic improvements in my immersion chilling
>techniques that have resulted in incredibly short chilling times.
>
>1) Changed the cold water inlet to go in the top of the coil
>(where the wort is hottest) rather than in the bottom and exiting the
>top.
>
>2) Attached two pieces of 8-gauge copper wire to the top of the
>chiller. This enables me to hang the chiller from the keg handles so the
>it is suspended at the top of the hot wort (again, where the wort is
>hottest).
I also use an immersion chiller, and brew 10 gallon batches. I've done the
same two things with my chiller, there's one more thing you might want to
try: take some more 8-gauge copper, wrap one end around the uppermost coil,
then loop it through the top 6-8 coils, such that they are "bunched up" at
the top of the chiller. Concentrating more of the cooling surface at the top
of the chiller where the wort is hottest helps achieve fast chilling times.
Chuck also writes:
>I found, at Amer. Science & Surplus, a "trash
>can dolley" for $7.50. This item is a ring with rods welded like spokes
>in a wheel and a standard keg fits it with room to spare. It has five
>plastic casters. It looks incredibly cheap and chintzy, yet I've tested
>it with a keg full to the top with water and it holds it and wheels
>around just fine.
I bought one of these about 2 years ago, it's every bit as flimsy looking
as Chuck says. However, I've *stood* on the thing (I weigh about 190), it's
a lot sturdier than it looks. At $7.50, the price is right, it'd be tough to
build something similar for less.
**************************************************
Also in HBD#1855, Robert Marshall writes:
>Call me a sick puppy, but what do I do to specifically get more
>diacetyl on purpose????
Drop the yeast out of suspension early, ie, near the end of primary.
Diacetyl is a natural by-product of fermentation, produced in the early
stages. Later, when most of the fermentables have been consumed, the yeast
will begin to reduce the diacetyl, assuming proper fermentation temperatures
are maintained.
As a beginning brewer, I got into brewing beers with crystal clarity. My
standard procedure was to rack from primary about day 7 or so, just when the
krausen was falling, and then add polyclar to the secondary. Racking left
some yeast behind in primary, the polyclar dropped whatever yeast that was
carried into the secondary out of suspension, at a point in the fermentation
where diacetyl reduction would just be starting.
I must warn you, this method will produce a *lot* of diacetyl. You might
want to try a yeast strain that leaves some diacetyl, ie, Wyeast 1084 or
1968 first.
Cheers,
Jim dipalma@sky.com
------------------------------
Date: 12 Oct 95 23:08:45 EDT
From: Tim Fields <74247.551@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Pump Aeration Foam
>Bob (Btalk@aol.com) writes in #1855 about aerating with an aquarium pump:
>My experience is that the foaming is so great that it becomes a
>humongous PITA, even with 5 gal of wort in a 6.5 gal carboy.
>I can run the air pump for about 10 min, then have to shut it off and wait
>20-30 min for the foam to subside before I can turn the pump on again. 3 or 4
>of these cycles is the limit of my patience.
I use the same setup with the same foamy results. I am experimenting (so
far successfully after 3-4 batches) with forming a cone/funnel around the
neck of the carboy using a piece of aluminum foil. Crimp it tight around
the outside if the neck and form it upwards in a funnel. As the foam
comes out of the carboy, it collects in the funnel and I can periodically
scoop it up with my "cleaned and sanitized" hands. Seems to be no
problem with infecting the wort because the foam doesn't "fall back" into
the wort. When done, I can simply remove the foil and toss it. When I am
feeling particularly sanitize-crazed, I drop the foil into iodophor
before making the funnel. Using this, I can aerate for 30 mins before
and after pitching. Note I haven't given much thought to whether the
post-pitching aeration will carry some of the pitched yeast out of the
carboy....
"Reeb!"
- Tim
Tim Fields...Fairfax, VA
74247.551@compuserve.com _or_ timfields@aol.com (weekends)
timf@relay.com (non-brewing time)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 20:17 PDT
From: robtrish@mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Lauriston)
Subject: lemon balming
Douglas Thomas <thomasd@uchastings.edu> wrote me with some suggestions on
how to use my lemon balm, and even better, how to make a lemon ale.
(So if your kids sip this, you call it lemonade?)
"Lemon balm is indeed part of the mint family. It gives more scent than
lemon flavor. You may want to try it in combination with other lemon
scented herbs. I use lemon grass root a lot in my meads. At higher
levels it gives a very nice taste. There is also lemon sage, lemon thyme
(very strong lemon/herb flavor) lemon verbena, and a true mint called
grapefruit mint (but is more just citrusy). Do not use any of the lemon
scented pelergoniums (formerly geranium). These smell wonderful but
taste very odd. The flowers contain almost no taste or smell. They are
edible but useless if not harmful to a brew. Also to watch out for when
using any of the mints is that they are natural disinfectants. They will
kill yeast in high levels. Oh, also, do not try lemon Eucalyptus. Bad
stuff for brews. Great for colds, but kills yeast and too much strong
(menthalatum sort of smell) extracted. Well, hope this helps -- D. Thomas
When I said I'd probably try lemon balm by itself to see what it would do
(and 'cause that's what the garden grew), doing 'dry balming' by adding it
to a fermented pale brew, Douglas Thomas added,
"Try "dry" lemon balm in one batch and then if you like what that did,
maybe make a tea of it and put that in the secondary. That way, maybe
more flavor will be released. Just an idea. If you are interested in
more info about the medicinal properties of Lemon Balm check out the Herb
Book by John Lust, or the recently published color edition of Culpeppers
Herbal. Both are good stuff."
Ask and you too may receive from the bountious HBD!
Thank you again, Doug Thomas.
Rob Lauriston <robtrish@mindlink.bc.ca>
The Low Overhead Brewery Vernon, B. C.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 02:07:25 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: New Brewing Gadget
> From: Elde@aol.com
> Subject: New Brewing Gadget
> Found a new brewing gadget last weekend; a tape recorder!
Gee, I bet my digital answering machine would work great for this. It
even timestamps each message automatically. I'll have to try it.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 17:17:52 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Brewing Software
I posted,
>Could everyone post me their opinion of the best brewing software and why?
>Yes, yes I know about the inaccuracy of IBU calculations, I use a dartboard
for that. (when my eye is in >an IBU of 150 is not out of the question!)
> Is there real value in the rest of it? Or should I stick to my calculator and
charts?
I'm suprised. When I asked for opinions on breware I expected a multitude of
partisan replies. I got four?
Three were on SUDS, one of those talked the authors into modifications, one is
writing something else because of perceived limitations, the third likes it but
wants decoction mashing and fermentation features.
The other reply was on Brewer's Workshop, he was very positive.
Do most of you sophisticated brewers shun software of just don't feel as
passionately opinionated about it as other aspects of brewing?
I'll stick to my Casio and tables and dartboard until convinced.
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)
PS I'm green with envy about the GABF, I must find time to fly over next year.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 09:41:19 +0100
From: Ben Craven (Staff) <b.j.craven@psych.stir.ac.uk>
Subject: Aluminium pots
Lance Stronk had mystery drips from his aluminium pot. I wondered whether
it had rivetted handles on the side, which were a bit loose. There would
be a bit of leakage past the rivets. The film of solution down the side
of the pot might be inconspicuous until it accumulated into a drpo at
the bottom.
Ben Craven
Stirling
UK.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 05:00:21 -0400
From: Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Beta-amylase at 140F (60C)
In Homebrew Digest #1854 (October 11, 1995) Algis R Korzonas writes:
>Steve, for some reason, blasts me for saying:
>>No. The rest at 60C (140F) is at the very low end of the active range
>>of beta amylase and is at the high end of protease range. Since the
>>rate of enzymatic action is temperature-dependent, the rest at 60C
>>does very little saccharification (unless we are talking hours) and thus
>>is primarily for the action of protease. Protease breaks big proteins
>>into medium-sized proteins. So the 60C rest is a protein rest and
>>is not really much of a factor in the fermentability of the beer.
>
>quoting George Fix, Malting & Brewing Science and Dave Miller in the
>process. In case you didn't notice, there are quite a few contridictions
>in your quotes.
>
>Frankly, I don't know why you have to jump on my words like this. I was
>already going to address this issue after Jim Busch's much more polite post.
Al - this certainly wasn't a 'blast'. You posted a statement that
appeared questionable. I simply posted an alternative point of
view including personal experience and published material. I am
appreciative of your many fine posts, I just think that your statement
above required some further explanation.
In quoting the various published sources I purposely included relevant
information regardless of apparent discrepancies, (which I believe are
fairly minor) - I'm looking for a good discussion of the issue - I'm
emphatically NOT trying to bash you - no impoliteness intended.
>What I should have said is that 60C (140F) is at the lower end of the
>*practical* range for beta amylase.
[stuff deleted ...]
>
>My *point* was that at 140F/60C, while I did say that there is some
>saccharification (I guess that I shouldn't have said "*very little*"), it is
>a very active temperature for protease. If not for the action of protease,
>then why mash at 140F/60C? Why not mash at 149F/65C? At this temperature,
>beta amylase activity is higher AND gelatinization is occurring too.
As a practical matter, when I brew dry ale styles using a 40-60-70
mash schedule (a la G.Fix) I do get most of my saccharification at 60C;
tho' it does require an extended period of time (1 to 1.5 hour rest).
The tables from Malting and Brewing Science mentioned in my original
post indicate a drop in fermentabilty from around (sorry - I don't
have the text in front of me today) 76% to around 67% as the mash
temperature rises from 60C to 68C. This is a substantial drop and is
of practical concern. The amounts of the various sugars as well as
nitrogen (soluable protein and amino acids) is also substantially
effected over this temperature range.
I agree that 60C is near the lower end of the practical saccharification
range, but I might consider using an even lower temperature if I had a
large adjunct load and wanted to insure maximum effectiveness of the
beta-amylase available.
I'm not overly enamoured of the higher amylase activity at 65C as a
homebrewer. A-B may be in a hurry when they brew; I can afford the
extra 30 minutes. A homebrewer's greater difficulty is in controlling
the process. I suspect that by timing a primarily beta-amylase rest
and a primarily alpha-amylase rest that I can achieve tighter control
and greater reproducability of recipes. The alternative is to choose an
intermediate temperature which results in the correct balance of alpha
& beta amylase activities (like your 65C). Controlling mash results by
this fine temperature control is relatively difficult. By the way, I
am not a religious advocate of 60C and 70C as the correct mash
temperature steps, and can easily see arguments that perhaps figures
like 62C and 68C would be better choices.
So why not mash at 65C ? Quicker denaturing of enzymes and production
of less fermentable wort are the issues. When a highly fermentable
wort is desired or adjuncts dilute the available beta-amylase, then
the lower temperature is certainly called for. Step mashing for the
two amylases may offer better process control as well.
>The difficulty in talking about enzymes and optimal temperatures is that
>for every enzyme there are two factors: 1) the activity of the enzyme and
>2) the denaturing of the enzyme.
>
>Let's take protease for example. Most books say that it's range is
>122F/50C to 140F/60C. It's activity at 122F is quite a bit lower
>than it's activity at 140F. All throughout this range, protease is
>also denaturing. The higher the temperature, the faster the enzyme
>denatures (becomes useless). So, while there might be even faster
>activity at 145F/63F, it will denature faster than it is practical
>for use at this temperature.
Enzyme activities ARE complex. One of the discussions in M&B Science
brings up the fact that the many different enzymes (yes there are a
lot more than alpha- and beta- amylase and protease) can work
synergistically. One example previously mentioned is the breakdown of
protein/starch complexes by proteolytic enzymes which makes starch
granules accessible by beta-amylase at sub-gelatinizing temperatures.
An interesting graph in M&B Sci also shows production of fermentable
sugars from a solution of flour, which has little or no enzymes
itself, with addition of several different ratios of alpha- and beta-
amylase as a function of temperature. This graph indicates a roughly
three-fold decrease in fermentable product as the temperature rises
from 60C to 63C !! Thankfully mashing an all-grain wort is a much
more forgiving process than this. One problem in reaching an
understanding of activity of enzymes in mash is clearly that there are
complex interactions that won't admit a simple decompostion.
On the subject of protein degradation, there are many different
proteolytic enzymes - each of which undoubtedly have optimal
temperature, pH and mash thickness environments. The tables of
optimal temperature (and pH) ranges for various activities from M&B
Science indicate that 50-55C is better for producing soluable protein
(for head, body and haze), while 55-60C temperatures preferentially
degrade proteins into amino acids (yeast/human nutrient). So
modulating the temperature of your protein rest should impact the
protein/amino acid ratio of the resulting wort. Fix and
other(Narziss?) suggest a quick step from 40C to 60C, but I'm tempted
to try a rest at 50-55C.
[...]
>I admit that my initial post was poorly worded and that my *point*
>(see above) seems to have been missed, at least by some readers.
>Nonetheless, this is no reason for dragging out the textbooks and
>copying out paragraphs, as if we wouldn't believe you if you simply
>wrote that they said otherwise.
>
>Al.
>
>Al Korzonas, Palos Hills, IL
>korz@pubs.att.com
Al - I brought out texts to support my point - I don't have your reputation
at HBD. It was also my intent to expand the discussion. I hope you
can find it interesting and enjoyable.
Steve Alexander
p.s. I can't drive 65 either.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 05:08:19 -0400
From: Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Correction on : Beta-amylase at 140F (60C)
In another post in this HBD I (may) have incorrectly stated a
relationship for protein degradation. The relation for mash
temperature is:
50-55C for maximal soluable protein AND amino acid production
55-60C for maximal production of non-amino acid soluable protein.
Steve Alexander
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 20:45:14 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Sorry & "RIMS"
Sorry for blowing bandwith by double posting yesterday, I'll be more careful.
I was ferreting around in megabreweryland as usual the other night and
discovered much technical data on an old wort temperature control system which
homebreweryland has reinvented and argued about for years.
Its not called "RIMS" or Incremental Decoction etc,
It is the "Melle-Boinot" process, and no, it's not patented! This is a
commercially available system for mash and fermentation temperature control.
I think someone is writing a book on "RIMS", they might research this process.
It will save a lot of time on discovering technical data.
Charlie (Australia, Brisbane)
------------------------------
Date: 13 Oct 95 07:19:24 EDT
From: Tim Fields <74247.551@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Paddle Finish
In #1856, flp2m@galen.med.virginia.edu> asks:
>I've just made a paddle for stirring my mash and brew out of
>maple. Should I put a finish on it like polyurathane or clear
>epoxy, or leave it unfinished?
I vote for unfinished. If you are bent on finishing it, there are clear
wood finishes that are ffood-grade (used for salad bowls and such). You
could also use vegtable oil (might sour?) or lemon oil (might flavor the
wort?) or any food-grade oil.
"Reeb!"
- Tim
Tim Fields...Fairfax, VA
74247.551@compuserve.com _or_ timfields@aol.com (weekends)
timf@relay.com (non-brewing time)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 08:37:18 -0400
From: johnm@his.com (John McCauley)
Subject: N2O in beer
Interesting comments on use of N2O as a beer fizzer. However, no one has
mentioned something that anyone who has inhaled the gas through the mouth
would know: the gas tastes sweet. I assume then that fizzing beer with it
would add sweetness as the gas bubbles in the mouth. Probably a fairly
unpleasant sweetness, too.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
| John McCauley | There shall in that time be rumours of things going
| johnm@his.com | astray, and there shall be a great confusion as to
| | where things really are, and nobody will really
| | know where lieth those little things with the sort
| | of raffia-work base, that has an attachment.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 95 09:01:51 EST
From: gravels@TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Subject: Irish Moss/Double Posting
Hi All,
Here's another data point on the Irish Moss subject, if you
forget to rehydrate the IM you can heat it up in the microwave and it
turns gelatinous rather quickly. Don't forget to watch it or it will
boil over. It also contributes to the overall aroma in the brewing
process, there's nothing like Irish Moss to make the kitchen smell
like the seashore. :^)
How are you guys posting on the same digest? Doug actually
responded to Brian's post before he posted? I'm confused. Although
that's not hard to do. ;^) Seriously, how are you doing it? Is there
a special place that the messages can be read before they become the
digest? That still doesn't explain how Doug responded first.
Oh well, I guess I'll have a another homebrew and contemplate the
mystery for a while. (hic) :^)
Steve
Steve Gravel Newport, Rhode Island
gravels@TRISMTP.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
"Homebrew, it's not just a hobby it's an adventure!"
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1857, 10/14/95
*************************************
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