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HOMEBREW Digest #1831
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/09/14 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1831 Thu 14 September 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
All-grain starter wort? (CGEDEN)
1995 Capitol District Open (Fred Hardy)
Rocky Mountain Shootout (Lynn Danielson)
labels, labels, labels! (Rolland Everitt)
Propane Cookers (Brian Barnett)
Experiences with coffee and chocolate (Bryan L. Gros)
Use of gelatin (John)
Temperature Control Unit Questions (Mark Thompson)
Do no use TSP on glass (Ronald J. La Borde)
How to homebrew Sake (Mutsuo Hoshido)
Stopping run-off, 'cos cup overflow error ("Frank R. Oppedijk")
What's Under Tomorrow's Lid ? (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
Keg fittings (Greg Holton)
Saving $$$ on yeast ("Dave Ebert")
Warmed Beer ("Jim Webb")
ageing (Adam Rich)
Thanks, oh yeasty ones! (pbabcock)
WYeast 1338 / Hot break ("Keith Royster")
Hawaii Beer Update (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
Yet another Pub/Micro Request (RANDY ERICKSON)
...no subject... ("richard myers")
RE: Warmed beer? (Jeff Renner)
Carbonation problems (Steve Armbrust)
Re: Wyeast 3068 (Jeff Frane)
H2O Measurements/Paint Stirrers (rich.byrnes)
Re: 3068, roasting, scum (Jim Dipalma)
Wild Goose intrigue (rik)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 95 15:01:23 EDT
From: CGEDEN@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU
Subject: All-grain starter wort?
Todd Mansfield has found that his starters do best when he uses all-
grain wort, presumably doing back-to-back batches or saving aliquots
of his wort for future use in starters.
Interesting. How would you do this if you were starting from scratch? A
mini-mash of 0.5 lb malted barley with a pint of water at 150 deg. for one
hour, sparged to get a total of 16-24 oz. wort? Has anyone ever tried this
sort of thing? It wouldnt be much more bother than breaking open a bag
of DME, measuring and spilling extract powder all over the kitchen!
Chris Geden
Gainesville, FL
Where summer brewing is a way of life year-round
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 15:27:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Fred Hardy <fcmbh@access.digex.net>
Subject: 1995 Capitol District Open
1995 CAPITOL DISTRICT OPEN, Washington, DC
Saturday, November 4, 1995
AHA Sanctioned/BJCP Recognized Homebrew Competition. Once again
we are able to use the Hyatt Regency Capitol Hill for our
competition. Since last year the facility has been renovated and
much improved.
The competition is open for beer, ciders and meads. Sake will be
accepted, drunk by the organizers, but will not be judged.
This year requirements have been lowered to 2 bottles per entry,
with the usual AHA restrictions on size, lettering, etc.
Entry fees are $6 for the 1st entry, $5 for the 2nd, $4 for the
3rd, and $2 each for the 4th to the nth. Enter early and often,
with no restrictions on how many entries per category or
subcategory.
ENTRY DEADLINES: All entries, whether shipped or dropped off,
must be received between MONDAY, October 16, and 6:00 pm TUESDAY,
October 31, 1995. DC area drop offs are Brew Masters Limited
(Rockville, MD), Brew America (Vienna, VA) and The Wine Seller
(Herndon, VA).
For entry information contact:
Fred Hardy
(703) 756-5103 days
or
(703) 378-0329 evenings & weekends
email at fcmbh@access.digex.net
Entry information is available in both InterNet and print format.
Judges are needed. First preference goes to BJCP participants.
Wassail, Fred
==============================================================================
We must invent the future, else it will | <Fred Hardy>
happen to us and we will not like it. |
[Stafford Beer, "Platform for Change"] | email: fcmbh@access.digex.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:01:48 -0600 (MDT)
From: lynnd@ihs.com (Lynn Danielson)
Subject: Rocky Mountain Shootout
The Unfermentables--Denver Area Homebrewers invite you to judge, steward
and/or enter our Fourth Annual Homebrew Shootout, to be held in Denver on
October 20 and 21. We will accept beer and mead, but not cider or sake.
Awards will include ribbons for the first 3 places in each category, as well
as brewing supplies, glassware, etc, donated by our sponsors.
If you would like to judge or steward, please contact John Barnholt at
303-355-8727, or you can e-mail Mark Groshek on the Internet at
theshek@rmii.com.
Each beer should be entered according to 1995 AHA style guidelines by category
and subcategory. Limit of one beer per entrant per subcategory. We must
receive 3 bottles per beer entry, or 2 bottles per mead entry (meads will not
participate in overall Best of Show). Categories will be combined as
necessary to accommodate the number of entries we receive.
Entry fee is $5 for the first entry and $4 for each additional entry (checks
made out to "The Unfermentables"). Entries should be shipped via common
carrier to The Great Divide Brewing Company, 2201 Arapahoe, Denver, CO 80202.
Entries should be received between October 4 and 14. The deadline is 12 noon
on Saturday October 14th.
Entry forms can be obtained by calling John Barnholt at 303-355-8727. You can
also e-mail Mark Groshek at theshek@rmii.com, but forms requested by e-mail
will not go out until September 28th. You may also bypass the official entry
forms if you wish. If you do, entries must be accompanied by a recipe, and
must include your name, address, telephone numbers (day and evening, please),
and your homebrew club affiliation, if any. You must include the beer/mead
name, and the AHA category and subcategory in which it is being
entered--please include the name as well as number and letter of the
subcategory you enter, to be sure there is no confusion. Each bottle should
have an ID form attached with a rubber band (not glue or tape). The bottle ID
form must include your name, address, phone numbers, the beer/mead name, and
the AHA category and subcategory in which it is being entered.
We are looking forward to a great competition--hope you'll participate as you
can.
Mark Groshek
Internet: theshek@rmii.com
What would life be without beer?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 18:26:13 -0400
From: af509@osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: labels, labels, labels!
I make my own labels by hand. I write in a fine calligraphic
hand using a pheasant quill dipped in beet juice. For paper, I use
my own homemade papyrus (I grow the stuff down by the river). I
stick the labels on the bottles using the gum of the jub-jub tree.
They never come off - ever. If I want to re-use the bottles, I
have to make the same kind of beer again.
Top that!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 95 16:54:45 -0600
From: barnett@slc.unisys.com (Brian Barnett)
Subject: Propane Cookers
Several people have recommended Camp Chef and Superb 35K BTU cookers.
Does the Camp Chef require modification to work efficiently? It appears
that the burner will be quite far from the keg when its placed on the
heating grate. The model I looked at has four legs, a squarish grate,
and a cylindrical shield around the burner. I found this unit priced
at $65.00.
The only Superb model I have found is 13"X13" and 6.5" in height with
no legs, possibly a table top version, model # 16-20E. The burner is
basically in a metal box. This model was about $120.00. I not sure
this is the model people have been recommending.
I would prefer something that didn't require modification. Can somebody
straighten me out? Model numbers would be helpful.
Thanks, Brian Barnett
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 16:39:27 -0700
From: bgros@mindseye.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: Experiences with coffee and chocolate
I know that we've been through this before, but I'm interested to hear
responses
from people who have used coffee and/or chocolate in beers. What kind of
coffee or chocoate, what kind of recipe, what results etc. I'll certainly take
private responses, and report back. In fact, I may compile results if I get
enough and upload it somewhere. I noticed some recipes in the Cat's Meow,
but not all of them had comments about the results.
Thanks.
- Bryan
bgros@mindseye.berkeley.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 22:05:08 -0400
From: jjh@intac.com (John)
Subject: Use of gelatin
[lurk mode off]
I've scanned the files at stanford, and a few other brewing resources, and
can't find what I'm looking for. What is the best way to use gelatin or
other finings to reduce the suspended yeast in kegged beer? The only
information I have is from TNCJOHB, which says to add one tablespoon to to
one pint of cold water and heat till desolved (but do not boil). Does this
method work? If not, what does the collective recommend?
E-mail is fine, I'll summarize in a couple of days.
TIA,
john
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 1995 21:31:58 -0500
From: Mark Thompson <mthompso@mail.utexas.edu>
Subject: Temperature Control Unit Questions
Last weekend I installed a Johnson Controls Temperature Control Unit (model
no. A19ABC-24C) in my beer fridge. It seems to be working, but the actual
temperature seems to be around 5 degrees higher than the dial temperature on
the controller. I mounted the unit on the inside wall of the fridge with
some velcro because I really didn't want to drill any holes. The sensor
bulb is attached to about 8 feet of copper wire that is coiled up in the
shape of a mini immersion chiller. I stretched out about 2 feet of the wire
and then ran the sensor and wire over the cooling elements and let it hang
in the center of the fridge. The sensor itself is not touching the cooling
elements, but the copper wire is touching.
So... here are my questions:
1.) Is the fact that the unit is mounted inside the fridge affecting it's
accuracy?
2.) What should I do with the excess copper wire attached to the sensor?
Should I uncoil it or leave it alone?
3.) Is the unit getting a false reading because the copper wire is touching
the cooling element?
4.) What is the proper placement of the sensor?
Any comments are appreciated.
Mark Thompson <mthompso@mail.utexas.edu>
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Sep 95 22:05:10 -0500
From: rlabor@lsumc.edu (Ronald J. La Borde)
Subject: Do no use TSP on glass
In #1829 Robert wrote:
>They sell TSP at the local wine shop, here in Berkeley.
I have purchased TSP in a local giant supermarket. I was planing to use it
for general glass bottle and carboy cleaning. Upon reading the product
label I read that the product was not to be used on glass. WHAT!!!!!
So I turned the lights on brighter, put on reading glasses and tried again -
Do not use on glass! Wait a minute, what is this??? The package had a
telephone number to call for further instructions or information. I called
and the lady replied that yes the manufacturer strongly suggested that the
product not be used on glass.
So I said why. She said it's VERY hard to rinse off.
Any further information from fellow digest members on this?
The label read pure TSP so I do not think the product had any other
additives. This just dosen't make sense - hard to rinse off. Why would a
cleaner be hard to rinse off? On the other hand, the manufacturer surely has
no desire to limit sales so he may have very strong reasons to put the
warning on the label.
**************************************************************
Ronald J. La Borde |
Work (504)568-4842 | "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both
Home (504)837-0672 | get dirty, and the pig enjoys it."
Metairie, LA |
**************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 16:07:20 JST
From: hoshido@gman.rme.sony.co.jp (Mutsuo Hoshido)
Subject: How to homebrew Sake
How to homebrew Sake
After the very hot summer, suitable season for Sake brewing
is approaching.Following is the one of the simple Sake brewing
procedures to enjoy Sake taste.
Materials:1500g(3.3lb) rice,400g(0.9lb)koji,5g(0.18oz)citric acid
Water.Dry yeast(I used bread yeast.I heard wine is better.
Sake yeast is not available at present.)5g(0.18oz)
Koji is available at a grocery store in Japanese during
the winter time.
Koji is sold as a cooking material to make "amasake",
very sweet pasty liquid which has no alcohol and not
as a homebrew material.
Equipment: electric rice cooker(steam cooker is better),
10liters(2.6gal) enamel deep cooking pot with lid.
big spoon(stainless is better)
1.Wash 1500g(3.3lb) rice and then put the rice in a basket for
at least one hour.
2.Cook the rice with 1800ml(0.48gal)water using rice cooker.
3.After cooking the rice,cool down the rice to 20deg C(68deg F).
4. Melt the citric acid with 2.4liter water in the enamel cooking pot.
Temperature to be lower than 20deg C(68deg F).
Citric acid will prevent contamination of bacteria and add slight
sour taste to Sake.
5.Add 400g koji and well melt it by agitating with the big spoon.
6.In thirty minuets,add the cooled rice and well mix by agitating
with the big spoon.
7.Pitch the dry yeast and place the lid on the pot and keep it under
20deg C(68deg F).
8.Stir it at least once a day.In two or three days you can enjoy
Sake smell.Be careful about bacteria contamination.
I used 70% ethyl alcohol spay around the pot and to myself.
9.In two weeks fermentation will stop.
10.Filter the sludge using a sterilized basket or cheese cloth.
11.Enjoy the filtered Sake.Do not drink too much.
Alcohol content is two to three times more than beer.
Cooling the filtered Sake is the best way to taste.
12.Remaining sludge can be used to cook vegetable pickles in a
refrigerator.Cucumber is the most suitable vegetable.
If real "Amasake" is available (sake sludge mixed with suger is not
real amasake),directly pitch dry yeast in a bottle.You can brew Sake.
In Japan,at present,fermenting more than 1% alcohol without
license is illegal.
Before world war one,I heard that every family had been enjoying
home sake brewing. It was the Japanese culture.
But the war destroyed the culture too.
At present,members of " Homebrew News Letter" is only less
than 300.It is supposed that about ten thousand homebrewers exist
in Japan.We do not always brew beers but sometimes Sake.
Just two years ago the minimum amount of beer production
was reduced from 2000kl/year to 60kl/year by the pressure from
the USA. It was the beginning of small local beer brewers.
We,most of general Japanese people, are wanting more pressure
from the USA for free homebrew and for free trade.
Commercial Sake brewers use very expensive materials such as
50% polished specially selected kind of rice,which looks
very small crystal beads because of the excessive polishing process.
We never eat such a rice, we usually eat normally slightly
polished normal rice grown only for eating.
When I visited Sake brewer near my house,the manager told
me that he tried to eat that sake rice but that it was not tasty.
Homebrew Sake is very simple to make and satisfactorily tasty
if you do not compare with commercial real Sake.
I heard that US Sake brewer produce only real Sake because of
US tax law.Real Sake means Sake only from rice.In Japan,
tax law allows mixture of so called industrial ethyl alcohol to
Sake within a certain percentage.Real sake (Junmaishu) is very
expensive.
I hope you enjoy homebrew Sake.
Mutsuo Hoshido
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 09:47:29 GMT
From: "Frank R. Oppedijk" <fro@vicorp.nl>
Subject: Stopping run-off, 'cos cup overflow error
Hi all,
In HBD #1829, korz@pubs.ih.att.com wrote about recirculating early runnings
when lautering:
(snip)
>I use a small measureing cup for
>catching the early runnings and therefore I can again gently lay down the
>runnings back into the top of the laeuter tun without aeration or disturbing
>the grain bed too much. I must admit that there is a disadvantage to the
>small measureing cup in that I have to stop the runnoff between cups of
>runnings. I have to think more about solving this problem since starting
>and stopping the runnings has a tendancy to un-seat the grain bed a little
>each time.
Think about using 2 small cups so you can alternate. This way you won't have
to stop the run-off any more.
Just a small hint from this long-time lurker (finally I can contribute
something to this high-quality digest. Keep up the good work, guys!).
Brew on!
Frank
_____________________________________________________________
Frank R. Oppedijk froppedijk@vicorp.nl / fro@vicorp.nl
Software Engineer Vicorp Benelux, Utrecht, The Netherlands
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 20:20:32 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: What's Under Tomorrow's Lid ?
First, thanks for the thoughtful and interesting replies to my boiling
questions from, Jim Busch, Algis Korzonas, Steven Lichtenberg, and Philip
Gravel.
It seems that,
High pressure/temp (150C) boils must be brief to avoid excessive melanoiden or
caramelization reactions. Alfa Laval doesn't boil at this temp, they just hold
it for 2 monutes. They boil at 80C.
I understand the difference between batch and continous processes. However with
the tiny ammounts that homebrewers brew, we can approximate an increment of the
continous process if there is an advantage. I can go to 140C "instantly" as I
have a 3000kW steam boiler! However it is more convenient to go from 100C to
140c in 10 minutes with a 35kW gas burner and then flash cool to 80C by
releasing the pressure and hooking up a 15litre/ min diaphram pump and lowering
the pressure to 1 ATM..
It also seems hot break is pressure dependent, the higher the better. I'll find
out why, I've emailed Alfa Laval..
Complete sterilization is possible at elevated temps.
If the desirable isomerization of hop bittering compounds and the protein break
are accelerated in the short time at 140C, and a prolonged 80C boil does the
DMS removal well (SMM coverts to DMS at >70C), the high temp/low temp
combination may result in significant melanoid and caramel reduction. I have
set up a test and when my gas fitters are finished I will "boil" three
different ways and have the resulting wort analysed by our university.
If I post a positive conclusion in about 2 months, it will be relatively easy
for a homebrewer to emulate the technique in part. The average beer keg can be
used as a pressure vessel to 3 ATM, and a diaphram pump can be picked up
cheaply.
The reason for my heavy metal approach to brewing techniques is my increasing
allergy to some staling compounds in beer and wine. I can become violently ill
on 1 litre of badly brewed or old beer. It was Sulphur headaches that drove me
to building heat exchangers.
I am becoming an anti-oxidation and clean brew freak, I am researching every
aspect of oxidation or off flavour production I can find.
I am compiling a "Fresh Beer Guide" on every point of possible oxidation, if
other members would like to contribute their wisdom it would be appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:36:37 -0500 (EDT)
From: greg@kgn.ibm.com (Greg Holton)
Subject: Keg fittings
> ...
> >------------------------------
>
> I have a very similar setup except I believe I used 3/8" nipple, a
> couple of additional comments on construction.
>
> You should get a 'hole saw' for stainless steel to fit a hand drill in
> order to make the hole. SS is very tough to drill. I believe that
> 5/8" is the proper size for a 3/8" pipe.
>
> I've found thick nylon washers at my local hardware store which are
> the proper size to act as the inside gasket in place of the copper
> gaskets Greg cleverly made.
I forgot to mention in my arrangement that the copper pipe cap that
serves as a metal gasket is left whole in the case of the mash tun.
The strainer arrangement consists of the appropriate sized copper pipe
slipped into the pipe cap on the inside and secured with a brass screw.
The pipe runs the length of the bottom of the keg, with a 90 deg elbow
on the end facing down for support. The pipe is drilled with MANY 1/16"
holes. After much experimentation, I found that this arrangement worked
much better for sparging than others, such as hacksaw cuts in copper tubing.
| 2" drilled copper pipe |
| | pipe cap doubles as gasket
| | | |
| | v | / adapter: 3/8 compression
| V | / to 1/2" pipe thread
| | /
| ___________________________________---| / __ 1/2" ball valve
| | | =_______ _|
| | |_____________________________ =-------| |=== \ flare fitting
| | | ---| 3" nipple | for copper tubing
| | | <-- 90 deg elbow w/cap |
|_|___|_________________________________|
Greg Holton
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 07:26:38 MST-0700
From: "Dave Ebert" <Dave.Ebert@UCHSC.edu>
Subject: Saving $$$ on yeast
I understand the need to save $$$ when brewing but I think an easy
way for getting the most bang for the buck has been overlooked.
I smack a fresh pack of Wyeast and prepare about 1 gallon of 1.030
wort that has been highly aerated and supplemented with a good dose
of yeast nutrient. When the yeast pack has swollen properly I pitch
the yeast. Ferment lock in place, I let 'er go for about 10 days. I
carefully rouse the slurry back into solution and siphon the fluid
into 11 12oz bottles. I cap them, label them, and place them in the
fridge.
When I get ready to brew a new batch, I pull one of my yeast bottles
from the fridge, transfer the contents to a 22 oz bomber, top it off
with fresh wort, and put on a ferment lock. The next day I brew and
then pitch the 22oz of high krausen yeast.
This method gives me 11 batches from a single pack of yeast. That
does not count any repitches of the slurry on the bottom of the
carboy!
YMMV
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 14:04:15 -0400
From: "Jim Webb" <"webb_j%Organization=Mineral Sector Analysis Branch%Telephone=705-670-5889"@a1.torv05.umc>
Subject: Warmed Beer
[This message is converted from WPS-PLUS to ASCII]
Carl Etnier was inquiring about warmed ales.
Although I know nothing of the Viking brews, and haven't tasted a
heated brew, I have a little family history that I grew up with
that may be of interest.
Hanging beside my grandmother's fireplace (and now hanging beside
my brother's fireplace) was/is a copper cone, about 12 inches
tall, about 6 inches in diameter at the top, with a handle on the
side (mug-style). My gram called this (apparently rare) antique
a 'beer warmer'. An ale would be poured into the implement along
with spices, and jammed into the coals of the fire to warm. This
was the more genteel method than the standard practice of
plunging a hot fire-poker into your mug.
As I recall - and is written in Websters - 'wassail' is a hot,
spiced ale traditionally drunk around Christmas.
Jim Webb
Sudbury Ontario Canada
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:25:48 -0500
From: rich.adam@mayo.edu (Adam Rich)
Subject: ageing
Hello,
Some tiem ago I posted regarding problems with ageing... My beer is
best for a window of time, say between 2-6 weeks old. I suspect, after
mulling over many responses, that the primary concern is oxidation. This
could occur during handling of the hot wort (HSA), or at bottling. Either
way, the end result is relatively unstable beer that may taste good at first
but then rapidly declines. One 'supposed' signiture of oxidation is that
the hops aroma/ flavor is lost first, then sherry-like flavors begin to pop
up. Note that I store beer in my basement, with temperatures ranging from
65 to 75 F.
Now, this past weekend I was lurking in a friends basment refridge
and found 3 older bottles of beer that I made. My supplies of these
particular batches have long since been metabolized. So, I was extremly
interested to see how these bottles 'aged'. Well, they taste pretty good,
sort of as they tasted when they were 'in the window'! Obviously the
oxidation/ ageing reactions are slowed down thu spreserving the desired beer
characteristics. One additional note, the beer was all crystal clear! I
have admired this in others beer at our local homebrew club meetings. The
response, 'my beer always comes out this way' by the knowledgeable (read
arrogant) all-grain brewer was crap. He ages in the 'fridge.
I must admit that I have more recently altered my brew schedule and
gone to a partial mash, thus improving the overall quality a great deal (in
my opinion). However, this tasting was an eye opener for me.
The moral is, age at cool temperature if it is possible. Otherwise,
don't save any! This is a bummer, for me, since I enjoy haveing 2-3 styles
on-hand which means I brew 3 weekends in a row, take 2-3 weeks off, then
brew agin. However, storeing 4-5 cases is no good at my basement temperature.
Someday, when I get a real job, I'll buy a beer 'fridge!
best of luck,
Adam
Adam Rich: richa@mayo.edu
Department of Physiology and Biophysics
Guggenheim 9, Mayo Foundation
Rochester, MN 55905
507-284-0879 (lab)/ 507-252-8115 (home)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:41:25 EDT
From: pbabcock@e-mail.com
Subject: Thanks, oh yeasty ones!
THIS IS A CORPORATE DOCUMENT - YOU KNOW THE DRILL....
Pat Babcock Internet: pbabcock@e-mail.com
Bronco Plant Vehicle Team - Body Construction Assembly Engineer
Subject: Thanks, oh yeasty ones!
Thanks to all who have responded to my yeast questions posed in HBD #1827. The
information was enlightening! I will not summarize as all responses were
contained in subsequent issues of the HBD...
And Dan: Keep on that soap box! I agree that repitching is the most realistic
way in which we homebrewers can attain proper pitching rates. This ties in
well with the discussions regarding storage of the yeast cake from the primary
and/or secondary fermentor: If your brewing schedule doesn't permit immediate
reuse of the yeast cake, store it for future use!
Thanks again!
Oh, and check out my new home page at http://oeonline.com/~pbabcock/howdy.html
IYWIDRTYMJFDIY
Best regards,
Patrick G. Babcock Michigan Truck Plant PVT Office
(313)46-70842 (V) -70843 (F) 38303 Michigan Wayne,MI 48184
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 09:53:59 +0500 ET
From: "Keith Royster" <N1EA471@mro.ehnr.state.nc.us>
Subject: WYeast 1338 / Hot break
In a recent issue of the HBD someone commented that they had used WYeast
1338 (European Ale) in a batch and had noticed it to be quite slow. They
commented that the slap pack was slow to swell, the starter was slow to
start, and that once pitched in the batch of beer, had a fairly long lag
time. A few others then responded to the HBD stating that they had
similar experiences and concluded that it was normal for this yeast.
I would like to add a data point to this by explaining my very different
experience with this yeast. In a recent batch of Holiday Cheer
(Papazian) that is currently fermenting in my fridge, I used this yeast.
The slap-pack swelled inside of 24 hours and the starter was at high
kreusen in 24 hours. Furthermore, I split the starter in half since I had
made a 10 gallon batch in 2 carboys. The starter was pitched at about
10:30 pm and was already at high kreusen (spewing out of the air locks and
running down the carboys!) the next morning less than 12 hours later. The
only time I have seen a quicker and more vigorous fermentation is when I
repitched the yeast sediment from a previous batch.
Besides relating another data point for this yeast, I am telling you this
because it possibly relates to a comment made by Rolland Everitt in HBD
#1830.
> "The work of Wildiers...showed in 1901 that some yeasts would not
> grow in simple synthetic media, unless there was added a little of
> either an old culture fluid, or an extract of yeast cells; <snip>
> Wildiers' results were confirmed in 1919, and the stimulation of
> yeast growth..has come to be called the bios effect."
*** > He goes on to identify the "bios factors" - they are vitamins.
I found this interesting because, when making my starter, I noticed a
bottle of multi-vitamins sitting on the kitchen counter and thought, "what
the heck...it couldn't hurt" and crushed one and added it to the boiling
wort. Also, in preparation for pitching into 10 gallons I added about 3/4
cup of corn sugar to the starter (in addition to 3/4 cup of DME) to give
the yeasties a little boost. I wonder if the addition of these vitamins
could partially explain why this yeast responded so well, contrary to
others' experiences. Any comments?
- ----------------------
Kirk Fleming comments:
> ..and what puzzles me is that several (I think) homebrew books talk about
> having to boil for about 30 min to generate the hot break. I've found
> the hot break *always* forms prior to the onset of the boil, and *never*
> appears afterward. Anyone else seen that statement? Comments please!
I have not noticed this reference to 30 mins in any books, but perhaps I
have just over looked it. In my experiences, the hot break always forms
at the beginning of the boil, within the first 5 or 10 minutes. As soon as
my wort begins to boil it tries to boil-over because of the surface
tension caused by the un-flocculated proteins holding the bubbles
together better. So I adjust the boil by backing the heat off in an
attempt to continue boiling without boiling-over (doesn't always work =)).
Within about five minutes the foam settles down because the hot break has
occurred, thus removing a lot of proteins from solution and lessening the
surface tension. I can then crank the heat back up to a rolling boil
without worrying about a boil-over. Am I incorrect in believing that this
is when the hot break is occuring? Am I missing something?
- -------------
One last thing: should I conclude from the silence to my request for info
on how to duplicate Red Seal Ale that nobody knows much about it? I know
how to make a Pale Ale, but this wonderful beer seems to have a unique
hop flavor that I would like to know more about. Besides what kind of
hops, I would also like to know if it is acheived by dry hopping, hop
backing, or just as finishing hops. TIA.
Keith Royster: KRoyster@mro.ehnr.state.nc.us
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 10:11:33 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna@relay.com
Subject: Hawaii Beer Update
My original posting RE beer in Hawaii was swallowed by the AI robot in it's
recent death throws; so here is an abbreviated version. I found little
info re beer in Hawaii via HBD archive search, so this will hopefully
assist future queries. Thanks to Jim Overstreet for nudging me into
reposting (and retyping :-)
It goes without saying: Std disclaimers, the following is MO - go taste
'em for yourself!
WWW page for the Hawaiian Food & Beverage Industry:
http://www.lava.net:80/~brew/
Lots of good stuff.
I visited 2 micros and one brewpub:
ALI'I Brewing Company (micro)
500 Alakawa Street, #200
Hololulu, HI 96817
808-841-4883
Located on cannery row near the Dole pineapple canning factory - an
*absolute must see*, this small micro is brewing some really good beer.
Real "beer people", as opposed to the
"build-it-to-go-public-and-make-money" type. Far and away my favorite of
the 3 establishments visited. Samples served in _mugs_:-) ("Hey, You've
got to have enough for a good taste"). Don't expect a fancy brewery - do
expect quality brew.
Ali-i beers are hard to find - limited production and distribution. BUT
they told me that will improve.
Beers tasted:
Amber Ale (*REALLY REALLY REALLY* good)
Pineapple Pale Ale (ok; a little too pineapply for my taste)
Mango Wheat (I like mangos, this was *GREAT*! Just a hint of mango). Porter
(also very good)
Barley Wine ("private stock", "ties up the equipment too long to be cost
effective", good stuff! :-)
Others they make that were not being brewed during my visit: Macadamia Nut
Brown Ale
Kona Coffee Stout
Kona Brewing Company (micro, seemed to be "marketing driven" as opposed to
"beer" driven, samples served in little cups :-(
75-5629 Kuakini Highway
Kailua-Kona, HI 96740
Beers tasted:
Golden Ale (ok)
Fire Rock Pale Ale (hoppy, pretty good, but kind of mono-flavored)
Others they make:
none at this time
Gordon Biersch Brewing Company (brew pub, they will give out decent-sized
samples)
Aloha Tower Marketplace
101 Ala Moana Blvd
# 1123
Hololulu, HI 96813
808-599 4877 (voice)
808-599-8433 (fax)
Beers tasted:
Export (lighter color, pretty good)
Marzen (pretty good)
Dunkel (pretty good)
Others they make:
Hefeweizen, and probably some more occasionally
Misc:
the Maui Brewing Company (whale ale and another ale): beer made on the
mainland; not in HI. I tried the whale ale anyway-std mega brewery stuff.
Cool label, tho. All three establishments visited had been in business 2
yrs or less.
-Tim
Tim Fields ... Vienna, VA, USA ... timf@relay.com
"Contemplate this on the Tree of Woe" ... Thulsa Doom
"So many recipes, so little time" ... most everyone
"beers me" ... me
"reeb!" ... Cask-conditioned Cole and Old Speckled Clyde
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:33:32 -0700
From: RANDY ERICKSON <RANDYE@mid.org>
Subject: Yet another Pub/Micro Request
I will be in the Warrendale/Pittsburgh PA area early next week. Anyone
know of any "must check out" pubs, micros, bars, etc.?
Thanks All -- Randy
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 9:38:02 CDT
From: "richard myers" <Richard=Myers%Corp=Admin=Sys%IM=Hou@bangate.compaq.com>
Subject: ...no subject...
- --- Start Quote
Okay, I may have brewed my first bad batch (it's only my 4th
batch). The beer is real cloudy which suggests bacterial infection,
but there was no deposit ring on the bottle. The beer does not taste like
it's supposed to (it's a weizen). The beer could be better but it does not
taste bad.
My question is "can I still drink it?" The beer is definitely
drinkable (although not the best tasting batch I've brewed). Will the
bacteria make me ill or is the beer not really infected? I would
hate to have to pour out 5 gallons of beer.
- --- End Quote
Yes... A weizen may (should) be cloudy. If the beer tastes ok then drink
up. If the beer tastes bad pitch it. I am currently "pitching" a bad
batch because I can not stand the flavor. I did have one other "bad" batch
- which tasted fine (it showed the "ring" and had unidentifiable floating
chunkies (techinical term :-) ).
The advice I got from my HomeBrew store was - "If you can drink it do so,
if not pour it out". They then added, "If it is infected drink it fast -
it will only get worse".
For the record, this batch became infected from a siphon problem (got
clogged every 5 minutes and had to be restarted). I gave up on the batch
and continued on through the process just to see what would happen. The
first bad batch was a bottle infection (some of the bottles had a problem
some were fine - still don't know why, they were all cleaned the same way.)
Richard Myers
Anxiously waiting for my latest American Amber Ale to carbonate and age -
in the bottle.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 11:17:28 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: RE: Warmed beer?
Carl Etnier, "A Yankee in Sweden (now on assignment in Switzerland,
beer purgatory)" asks about warmed beer. I believe this was common in
England centuries ago. I remember a scene early in the movie "Lion in
Winter." The plotters against Henry VIII met in a tavern, and one of
them pulled a hot poker out of the fire, plunged it into his mug of ale,
and left it there until it was steaming. I thought at the time that
this would probably also introduce soot and flaked iron into the ale.
English ale back then was typically much stronger in OG than now
(>1.080), probably cloudy with yeast and suspended starch and protein
from poor mashing and sparging techniques, sweeter (higher FG), and
unhopped. Probably a much different drink warm or cool than anything we
have now.
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 08:16:00 PDT
From: Steve Armbrust <Steve_Armbrust@ccm.jf.intel.com>
Subject: Carbonation problems
Tim Fields complains of carbonation problems even when he used a lot of
priming sugar.
A few weeks ago, I reported that my English Bitter (using Wyeast 1968)
was flat and that a yeast layer seemed glued to the bottom of the
bottles. As a test, I took some of the unopened bottles and swirled them
until I loosened the yeast layer from the bottoms. I left both swirled
and unswirled in my cellar for a week. Then I refrigerated some of
each. The swirled ones were carbonated and the unswirled ones weren't.
You might try shaking some of the bottles to see if getting the yeast
back in suspension will help.
Steve Armbrust
Steve_Armbrust@ccm.jf.intel.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 08:28:15 -0700
From: jfrane@teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: Wyeast 3068
Mark Roberson asked:
> I have gotten conflicting advice about the 3068 Weihenstephan wheat yeast;
>I have it in my head that in order to maximise the clove character you should
>keep the fermentation temperature below 50F, but the guy at the brew shop
>swears that it is an ale yeast which will poop out below 60F. I've cruised
>everywhere I can think of on the net, without learning anything.
> Would anyone have any advice?
>
Oddly enough, the shop guy was right! It appears that the truest weizen
flavor is generated by that yeast (assuming everything else -- grist, etc.
- -- is correct), when the fermentation is held around 68F. Below that, it
doesn't generate the right compounds, although I'll have to say that in my
experience it didn't generate much banana, either. The yeast tends to
produce clove and vanilla. A friend did his first fermentation in a fridge,
that held the ferment at 65F and the beer was way too mild. At an ambient
temperature of 68F (which presumes the actual temperature of fermentation is
maybe 5F higher), the flavor was spot on.
- --Jeff Frane
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 11:31:58 EDT
From: rich.byrnes@e-mail.com
Subject: H2O Measurements/Paint Stirrers
FROM: Rich Byrnes
Subject: H2O Measurements/Paint Stirrers
Hey everyone;
First off I got 2 private E-mail responses on my inquiry of using an
industrial paint stirrer for wort chilling and aeration assistance,both
(Spence Thomas and ???oops) said it sounded good, but wait til the wort
was below 100F (or even 80-90) to start whipping air into it. One other
person answered online with a concern for lead solder, it's possible,
guess I'll find a lead test kit unless someone else knows an easy way
to check for lead solder, if it is lead, can it be coated with silver
solder to seal it?
<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
Now for my question, using a "pico" type system with a raised copper
false bottom, how do you measure your water for the mash, if you
generally use 1.25 qts per pound or grist, is that 1.25 quarts above
the false bottom? My mash tun holds 2.6 gallons of water under the
screens, how does this come into the measurements? I've only had the
system built for a few weeks and just did my first solo all grain
batch this weekend (a wheat beer w/ a step mash schedule, piece of
cake, I don't know why I waited this long to make the jump into
all graining!) So I appeal to all the experienced all-grainers with
1/2bbl mash tuns for advice and wisdom.
TIA
Rich Byrnes
Founder: Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen
ignore the next 4 lines, I ususlly do!
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
B&AO Pre-Production Color Unit \\\|///
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520 (.) (.)
Rich.Byrnes@E-mail.com_____________________o000__(_)__000o
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 11:24:30 EDT
From: dipalma@sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: Re: 3068, roasting, scum
Hi All,
In HBD#1830, Mark Roberson asks:
>I have gotten conflicting advice about the 3068 Weihenstephan wheat yeast;
>I have it in my head that in order to maximise the clove character you should
>keep the fermentation temperature below 50F, but the guy at the brew shop
>swears that it is an ale yeast which will poop out below 60F.
>Would anyone have any advice?
> I ask because I did my previous batch at 58F and got almost complete
>banana flavor with little detectable clove;
I've had pretty good success fermenting with this yeast at 60F-62F. This
strain does seem to produce a lot more banana than clove, a little too much
so IMHO. Keeping fermentation temps in the low 60s helps to keep ester
production down somewhat, while still producing a reasonable clove character.
The last batch of dunkelweizen I brewed was a 22 gallon brewlength, split
with fellow HBDer Lee Menegoni. We split it into 4 carboys, pitched 3068 and
Andechs weiss yeast. Lee fermented his in the high 60s, I fermented mine in
the low 60s, and his 3068-pitched beer had considerably more banana ester
than mine. In this case, 5-7 degrees made a noticeable difference.
**************************************************************
Also in HBD#1830, Russell Mast asks:
>Brings to mind another question - is there a difference between chocolate
>malt and black patent malt BESIDES the degree of roasting?
Not to my knowledge. Both chocolate and black patent are malted (as
opposed to roasted barley, which is not), then kilned at different
temperatures, typically 80F-100F apart.
>If you have a
>"chocolate" malt from one maltster than weighs in at 500L, is that a better
>match for another maltsters 550L "black patent" or a better match for their
>300L chocolate?
Over the years, I've seen chocolate malt with ratings that ranged from
300L to 500L, this is clearly an *enormous* difference. Consequently, I have
gotten distinctly different color and roasted malt flavor contributions from
chocolate malt from different maltsters. This makes it a little tricky getting
batch-to-batch consistency in beers that use a high percentage of chocolate
malt, such as porters and stouts.
**************************************************************
Kirk writes:
>>Al K writes: > The scum is actually the infamous Hot Break.
> ..and what puzzles me is that several (I think) homebrew books talk about
>having to boil for about 30 min to generate the hot break. I've found
>the hot break *always* forms prior to the onset of the boil, and *never*
>appears afterward. Anyone else seen that statement? Comments please!
What I've read of this is that hot break formation is not a distinct point,
but occurs throughout the boil. Much break material forms early in the boil,
rather less as the boil proceeds and there is less soluble protein in the wort
to coagulate and precipitate. Comments??
Cheers,
Jim dipalma@sky.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed Sep 13 11:29:55 1995
From: rik@astea.com
Subject: Wild Goose intrigue
What is the general impression of Wild Goose brewery out there? Has
anyone tasted these beers? Have you noticed the distinct smokey-buttery
characteristic that all Wild Goose products seem to have? I've tried
Wild Goose IPA, Wild Goose Wheat, and several others (I forget which
ones) but they all had this characteristic. What causes it? I can't even
decide if I like it or not, but it is very distinct. Is there anyway to
recreate this via homebrew? (That is, if I decide I like it ;))
On a related note, I saw someone mention Red Seal Ale in a recent HBD.
In my opinion this is one of the best beer's in America, and one of the
best breweries in America. IF you get a chance try their other products
(North Coast Brewery, Mendocino, CA) like Old No. 38 Stoudt, and
Scrimshaw Pilsener, and thank me later.
Rick
What no homebrew??? Get me some Rogue and some malt...and hurry!
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1831, 09/14/95
*************************************
-------
