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HOMEBREW Digest #1839
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/09/23 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1839 Sat 23 September 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
False bottom (blacksab)
Are all extracts created = (Eric Palmer)
good head (Evan_Still)
Centennial hops (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Boinked Mini-kegs (BF3B8RL)
Re: BBCo. Contest (Paul D. Wiatroski)
Blade Mace source (Jeff Renner)
March Pumps Temp Info (Jim Overstreet)
Mace, Mash Temps, and repitching. (Russell Mast)
Re: yeast starters, etc. (Jeff Frane)
Extraction Efficiency & Conversion (Kirk R Fleming)
Re: Steam Heat (Kurt Graffunder)
Reasons for One Yeast Breweries (Ken Schroeder)
Seattle Bound (Jim Overstreet)
Beerline Cooling (RHENDRY)
Oak Chips ("Dave Ebert")
Re: More pubs/yeasts (hollen)
Re: Cooling Beer Line (hollen)
Mace leaves (Chris Kantzes)
Wyeast 1728 Attenuation / AB yeast (Rich Larsen)
Re: Aged beer & Mace (Spencer W Thomas)
Taste of the Great Lakes Competition and Conference (Spencer W Thomas)
yeast slap-packs (Rob Lauriston)
more pumps, & long draw systems (blacksab)
Newcastle Brown Ale (CLAY)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 23:35:21 -0500
From: blacksab@siu.edu
Subject: False bottom
Never one to be satisfied, I'm now trying to come up with a fuss-free false
bottom for my mash-tun. I'm currently using Jack's EasyMasher(tm) and it
works fine, but I really have my heart set on a true false bottom. I don't
really like the idea of a hinged piece of SS, so I'm wondering whether a
3/16 to 3/8-inch piece of copper or polyethylene cutting board couldn't be
used, and fastening the two pieces in the middle with a "rabbet joint". (I'm
using a keg as my mash-tun and the top hole is too small for a full-sized
bottom). A rabbet joint looks like this:
........................... ................................
. .\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
. ...........\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
......... .\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
. .\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
. .\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
................................... ......................
I figure instead of drilling a bunch of holes, I could take a router to the
underside and cut a series of U-shaped slots parallel to one another, and
then flip the thing over and cut a bunch of U or V-shaped slots
perpendicular to the underside. If I set the depth of cut correctly, the
intersection would form the perforation. Anyone tried anything like this?
What about materials--will plastics work or should I use copper? Stainless
is out of the question since I don't have the tools to route it. And what
about optimum slot shape--any data?
Thanks in advance.
--Harlan Bauer
--Harlan Bauer <blacksab@siu.edu>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 95 22:24:02 PDT
From: palmer@San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer)
Subject: Are all extracts created =
Perhaps someone can help me with this one:
For those intimate with extract brewing, are all light syrup extracts
created equal or is there evidence some are "better" than others?
For example, Alexander's (domestic from CA) vs. Laaglander vs. Breiss
vs. Australian vs. British, etc... I have heard British light tends
darker than domestic, but other than that, are there any "quality"
issues with the above or is it (as I expect) simply subjective and
a matter of taste?
Aside from trying to brew the best beer possible with extract, here's
where I'm coming from on this. The recipe I'm following in my attempt
to clone that elusive Full Sale Amber (1st attempt not even in same
universe, but still a great pale ale) calls for Australian light.
My local brew shop only had this in DME so I used it. It made a great
beer but I am not convinced it's worth the higher price. In light syrup,
he only has Laaglander. In a response (direct email) to one of my
earlier postings, someone (forget who) recommended against Laaglander.
Not sure why. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I'm inclined to
use Alexander's from another shop (less convenient than 1st one).
I have a friend who buys it in 5 gal cans and swears by it.
On the other hand, I've also heard/read that British and Australian
extracts are "better" because the Brits/Aussies have been at this
longer than we have.
Can someone help separate myth from reality here?
Many thanks in advance...
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 7:09 EDT
From: Evan_Still@vos.stratus.com
Subject: good head
hi to all,
What are the best way(s) to get a good head on my ales.
I've seen many recipes that use crystal for mouthfeel and
body,but does this help with the head.I've also heard that
carapils does the same.Can these two be mixed together.Are
there any other things that might help.I read a paragraph
in vol. 18 no. 5 "95 Zymurgy page 33 that shooting 10cc of
beer back in to the glass,using a syringe,will duplicate the
head that a good beer engine produces.WHAT IS A BEER ENGINE?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
HAPPY BREWING (and DRINKING)
E.S.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 07:49:09 -0400
From: cem@cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: Centennial hops
I read with interest the hops geneology article in the new issue
of Brewing Techniques. This article shows that Centennial hops are
a derivative of the Brewer's Gold line. I was always under the impression
that Centennials were a new breed of Cascades... I believe that Centennials
are also known as CFJ-90. ANyone care to comment?
ChuckM
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:25:29 -0400
From: BF3B8RL@TPLANCH.BELL-ATL.COM
Subject: Boinked Mini-kegs
HBDers -
I too have had past problems with distended mini-kegs. I
traced my problem to simply kegging early -- no apparent
signs of infection in the beer. In some of these kegs, so
much carbonation had built up that I didn't need to use a
single CO2 charge to empty it!
While the beer from the boinked kegs tasted OK, I threw the
kegs out since they are tin or steel w/ some sort of enamel
lining. My fear was that the boink would eventally weaken
the lining, exposing precious homebrew to exposed metal.
I did not experience a single boink-out this past brewing
season. I have attrubuted this to longer secondary
ferments, lower priming, and "cooler" storage (never above
70F). As always, YMMV.
A few weeks back, I posted a question to the HBD collective,
but received no responses. I am looking for someone who has
experience or simply can postulate on adapting a mini-keg
tap to a CO2 bottle/regulator settup. It seems that all I
would need to do would be to "screw" some sort of adaptor to
the mini-keg tap where the C02 charge currently is located.
This adaptor would then support a ball or pin disconnect
common to soda keg settups.
But there are no commercial products out there that do this
currently, making me think that there is some sort of
problem with this line of thinking (exploding taps/kegs
from no safety valve?)
TIA,
Chas Peterson
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:37:54 -0400
From: gi572@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Paul D. Wiatroski)
Subject: Re: BBCo. Contest
Dan,
Do you have any more info on the Sam Adams homebrew contest?
Such as: where to send entries, number of bottles, etc.
Thanks,
Paul Wiatroski
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 09:09:38 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Blade Mace source
In HBD 1838, Jay Reeves <73362.600@compuserve.com> says
> I'm looking for blades of mace. This is nothing more than whole
> mace before it is ground. Does anyone know where I can
> mail-order some?
Try "The Spice House," 1031 N. Old World Third St., Milwaukee, WI
53203, (414)272-0977 or 6877. They have a pretty complete line of
spices that they mail order (although no grains of paradise that I
wanted for my ginger wit). From the catalog (44 pages of 8-1/2"x11"
with lots of info about the spices): "...Milwaukee a few years ago for
a National Home Brewer's convention. We were frankly quite surprised to
find our store inundated by conventioneers buying a wide variety of
spices for their home brews."
Mace, blade: 16 oz., $9.90; 8 oz., $4.98; 4 oz., 2.49; 1 oz., $0.99;
1-2 oz., $0.59; $2.95 shipping for orders under $9.99.
Standard disclaimer.
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:22:11 -0500
From: wa5dxp@mail.sstar.com (Jim Overstreet)
Subject: March Pumps Temp Info
Harlan Bauer had requested temp info on March pumps. I just happend to
have their catalog on hand.
Two models he refrenced are both rated at 190 F max liquid temp. Max internal
pressure (room temp) 50 psi. Materials in contact with liquid are:
Model
MDX-1/2 & 5/8 - Glass Filled Polypropylene, Kynar, Ryton, Buna N, ceramic
magnet
MDXT - Glass Filled Polypropylene, Ceramic Shaft & Thrust Washer,
Ceramic Magnet, Buna N Seal
These are the two models with the wing nuts. To get their catalog, I sent
a fax to 1-708-729-7062 and requested catalog F0960-R7, titled:
Seal-Less Magnetic Drive pumps. I am glad Harlan listed a source for these
pumps, as I was unable to locate a dealer in my area. The prices he listed
are reasonable, as quality appears good.
Can any chemist/plastics experts out there tell us of the two materials above,
which would be most compatible with brewing-related applications? Is Ceramic
and Polypropylene safe with wort? 190 F rating should even be compatible with
a RIMS system.
The catalog says March has available a "Chemical Resistance Guide" for their
pumps, catalog number R-2910, "concentration, temperature, time, impurities,
and degree of agitation" affect materials selection - - - lists hundreds of
chemical solutions and rates their suitability for use with a wide range of
plastic and metal parts as well as O-rings and bushings". Think I'll request
this one today.
MDX models are rated at 5.5/6.0 gpm, 7 Ft max head, 1/50 HP, 1700 rpm, 64 watts.
MDXT rated at 6.0/7.6 gpm, 19 ft max head, 1/25 hp, 3400 rpm, 108 watts.
They are also available with air motors if you are brewing in an explosive
atmosphere. :)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 09:26:06 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Mace, Mash Temps, and repitching.
> From: Jay Reeves <73362.600@compuserve.com>
> Subject: Aged beer & Mace
> The altbier
> just didn't have the flavor it did at first - is that due to oxidation?
One thing that usually happens to my beers when I age them is the hop levels
drop off sharply after a couple months. A good alt will have a lot of hop
character. One in which the hops have "aged away" will not be a good alt.
There may be more, or less, going on in yours. What exactly was bad about it?
> Now, can someone please help me find something? I'm
> looking for blades of mace. This is nothing more than whole
> mace before it is ground. Does anyone know where I can
> mail-order some?
Not sure where to mail-order, but for stuff like that I always check
health-food stores. Many have huge selections of bulk herbs & spices for a
fraction of what it costs in the little jars in grocery stores. If you find
a health-food store that has bulk spices but not blades of mace, ask someone
that works there, and they might be able to help point the way.
> From: Chris Barnhart <cbarnhar@ria-emh2.army.mil>
> Subject: RE: Extract Efficiency
> This got me to thinking (Good thing :')). Isn't extract efficiency
> a measure of how completely you convert the mash from starchs to
> sugars (both complex and simple)? Within limits the temperature is
> irrelevant to EE. Wouldn't temperature's primary effect be the
> speed at which the converson takes place (as long as you don't
> denature the amylases stopping conversion completely). I would
> assume that temperature primarily influences the fermentability
> of the wort. Thoughts?
I'm under the impressoin that EE also takes into account how much of those
sugars you get out of the mash into the brew kettle. I'm not sure how
temperature would affect this, either.
> From: krkoupa@ccmail2.srv.PacBell.COM
> Subject: Extract/Grain
>
> Does anyone have a handy dandy per-pound conversion table between
> typical extracts and the all-grain equivalencies?
The practical problem with this from a homebrewing perspective is that your
extract efficiency might vary wildly from mine. (And will probably be several
point higher, too.) Your best bet would be to try to work backwards from
specific gravity.
> From: dflagg@agate.net
> Subject: REPITCH!
> I don't brew every week. The time between brews ranges from 2 weeks
> to a month and a half. Maybe my capture and storage procedures were
> a little sloppy, but I could never keep a large amount of dregs that
> long without them going bad. I might try it again, so I can perfect
> my technique, but I don't think yeast recycling will be big with me.
You could try to schedule bottling and brewing on the same day, and then
use the secorndary dregs by simply "pitching" your wort straight from the
chiller onto the yeast. I have only once actually bottled dregs, the rest
of the time I just pitch by leaving yeast in the 'boy.
Still, if you can't work out the scheduling, your beer isn't ruined. :-)
-R
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:16:23 -0700
From: jfrane@teleport.com (Jeff Frane)
Subject: Re: yeast starters, etc.
>From: Alex Sessions <ALEXS@RIZZO.COM>
>Subject: yeast starters summary
>
>Greetings to the HBD:
>
>I'm afraid I must take some of the blame for starting the most recent
>bout of yeast-starter-threaditis when I asked "why doesn't making a
>yeast starter culture the bad microbes as well as the good yeast?".
>
I missed the beginning of the thread, so forgive me if I ask: who says that
it doesn't?
If your starter is contaminated, your beer will be contaminated. There is no
magic involved. Pitching a contaminated culture into a starter will offer an
opportunity for the bacteria to reproduce, just as they would in the wort
(the starter,
after all, *is* wort, to all intents and purposes). The idea is to pitch a
clean
culture, not use the starter to clean up the culture. Makes no sense.
>
>all this leads me to a new question: if you are repitching yeast from
>a previous batch, you presumably already have enough active yeast
>cells to ferment the new batch; this would seem to imply that you
>could pitch the yeast with zero aeration of the new wort, and hence
>would get zero of the yeast growth byproducts in your beer. Comments?
>Experimental results?
>
Pitching from a previous batch helps, yes, presuming that the yeast is clean.
But aeration is *always* desirable, and will always assure a better, quicker,
more complete fermentation. Oxygen is an essential component in a good
fermentation, and while you can somewhat overcome the disadvantage of poor
aeration by a higher pitching rate, the *optimum* fermentation is a result of
both good aeration and a high pitching rate.
And what are "yeast growth byproducts", other than the natural results of a
good fermentation?
David Wright wrote:
(or is that David Wroght write:?)
>
>Now for my problem/question. I recently entered my first competition
>and thought that I might do fairly well. Before I filled out my paper
>work I went to the brew store and had 3 of the people there guide me
>as to which specific categories that I should put my brews into.( ie.
>I gave them samples) 2 of the 3 are judges and when I asked how
>beers were actually judges they brought out score sheets and judged
>them for me right there. One beer scored 42 and 43, and the other
>scored 43 and 46. To enter the contest thought I had to transfer the
>beer into regular bottles(they were in Grolsch bottles). To do this I
>brought the temp near freezing and slow poured the beer from one
>bottle to the other and recapped. When I got the results back from
>the contest the beers scored 23 and 29. There two good possiblilties
>that I have come up with. The first is that the bottles that I used
>were contaminated. These bottles were sterilized and then when dry I
>put aluminum foil over the tops for storage. These particular bottles
>were probably in storage for 3-5 months. The second things that I can
>think of that went wrong is that the bottles got mixed up with
>someone elses beer. I think that this may be a possiblity because the
>only thing that I got were the scoring sheets and a sheet with the
>entry numbers of my beers.
Here's another possibility: the guys at the store were poor judges.
If it's a good competition, they are very unlikely to mix up beers; using
just numbers
is standard procedure. It doesn't seem likely that your bottles would have been
contaminated, although you might want to put the foil on *first* before they go
in the oven; that way the foil gets heated too and the bottles are never open.
The thing is, if the bottles were clean, they were unlikely sources for
contamination;
the odds are that the contamination was either lurking in the beer or somehow
introduced at bottling, in some other fashion (unlikely, because of the
alcohol, but...)
The other possibility: the judges at the competition were lousy judges.
Although you say "phenolics were plentiful," so maybe they were right.
- --Jeff Frane
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:33:22 -0600
From: flemingk@usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: Extraction Efficiency & Conversion
Chris Barnhart asked about extract efficiency/conversion/mash temps:
> Isn't extract efficiency a measure of how completely you convert the
> mash from starchs to sugars (both complex and simple)?
I say "it should be" but it isn't. Because extract efficiency is measured
with a hydrometer, the numbers we get only indirectly tell anything about
conversion. That is, the hydrometer reading doesn't say if gravity is due
to starch, simple or complex sugars or anything else.
> Within limits the temperature is irrelevant to EE.
I think this is true; mash temp is irrelevant to 'apparent extraction',
ie, the extraction computed using gravity readings.
> Wouldn't temperature's primary effect be the speed at which the
> converson takes place (as long as you don't denature the amylases
> stopping conversion completely). I would assume that temperature
> primarily influences the fermentability of the wort.
Yes, and since temp is a *major* tool used to control wort fermentability
and palate fullness etc, it's really moot whether or not it affects the
speed of conversion. But back to conversion vs extraction-as-measured...
Brewers who've obtained low extraction will go on to say they are puzzled
because iodine indicates complete conversion but the yield was only 25 ppg
(for example). This is a frequent rcb comment. My feelings are:
1) There's hardly any connection between these two phenomena, and they
shouldn't be puzzled, and
2) The errors brewers face in measuring batch volumes (brew length) and
specific gravity (due to temp corrections, etc) influence extraction
numbers more than does the nature of the conversion.
My point is this: when we think we're measuring extraction of sugars due
to a mashing process, we're only truly measuring how much soluble matter
we've been able to lauter from the grain. It's a subtle distinction, but
I believe it's a valid one.
For the empirically-minded: given two otherwise identical mashes, but
with one done (uh, I mean "conducted") at 150F and the other at 200F,
will the og's be significantly different? I don't know the answer, so
if anyone has 100 Kg of Maris Otter they'd like to send me I'll be happy
to "conduct the research", heh heh heh. :-)
KRF Colorado Springs
KRF Colorado Springs
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 11:25:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: Kurt Graffunder <graff008@maroon.tc.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Steam Heat
Hi,
nealc@selway.umt.edu (Neal Christensen) writes:
>The thought came up that
>it may be possible to heat with steam using a copper heat exchange coil
>(similar to an immersion chiller) rather than steam injection. I don't
>think this has been discussed on the HBD yet.
I tried this with my steam injection system and it didn't work because
of insufficient heat transfer. I have a ~15 ft coil of 1/4" OD copper
that I use to preheat the mash water. When heating water the steam exits
the coil as water, at about the same temp. as the mash water. When used
to heat the mash, with moderate stirring, the steam exited the coil as
steam, and the heating was very slow. So, to make this work use a large
amount of copper, or pressurize the coil(control the exit of steam/water).
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:10:36 PDT
From: kens@lan.nsc.com (Ken Schroeder)
Subject: Reasons for One Yeast Breweries
In hbd1837 Al Korzonas states the reason for a one yeast brewery operation
is "lousy sanitation". Al may may have missed the the real reason: money.
>From conversations with many brewmasters, the reason for a one yeast
operation is cross contamination. Sanitation to prevent cross contamination
cost money.
Yeast tend to hide in a brewery in inconvienant places. The most frustrating
place seems to be in the filter. The filter is a very difficult piece of
equipment to clean. Since the beer is filtered before it goes to the
brightening tank, cross cantanimation could occure before the beer is
conditioned. Why not clean the filter: 1. filter paper is expensive, most
breweries try to run more than one batch through the paper. 2. The fliter
housing itself takes a conciderable amount of time to sanitize and has many
hard to reach places. Labor equals time. Time is money. It just plain costs
to much to sanatize the darn thing every time it is used.
Fermentation tanks and conditioning tanks also require sanatation and
thorough cleaning. Most operation seem to run several batches through before
giving the tank a real scrub down though most operations do rinse the tanks
between each batch. Yeast is transported between fermantation tanks. Multi
yeast breweries would require more fermentaton tanks to keep the yeast
cultures seperate. Tanks cost money and floor space is usually more
expensive. So, a multi-yeast brewery would require more money for cleaning
or for more equipment/floor space.
Most breweries buy yeast from the major yeast producers in varying volumes.
Wyeast is a major supplier in this area. Most brewers do not build a starter
from a slant but from rather large cultures. You guessed it, it takes to much
time. Yup, time equals money.
Money is the main reason for single yeast breweries. A brewery is factory
with differnet sanitation requirements, usually driven by the balance of
absolute required sanitation and desired sanatation levels versus money.
The main object of a brewery is to make money so the doors stay open. The
less money paid out, the more money goes to the bank. , the doors stay open.
The need to make money is perhaps the biggest difference between
home breweries and pro breweries.
(This is not meant as a flame at Al, just another view point.)
Ken Schroeder
Sequoia Brewing ( A multi-yeast home brewery :-)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:39:41 -0500
From: wa5dxp@mail.sstar.com (Jim Overstreet)
Subject: Seattle Bound
Heading for Seattle Monday afternoon. Need names of brepubs/brewereys near
Todd Shipyards Harbor Island. I have been to Hart and F.X. McCrory, anything
else near there? Quick response needed. Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 10:57:34 PDT
From: RHENDRY@MFOR01.FOR.GOV.BC.CA
Subject: Beerline Cooling
To: HOMEBR2 --INTERNET homebrew@hpfcmgw.f
in the last HBD:
> I suggest that you may use a wort chiller clone. I mean get something
>just like the copper tube within a hose setup. Get or make one long enough
>to reach from inside the fridge to the beer outlet. Now fill a container
>with glycol and put a pump into it and connect the glycol output to the hose
>the container. Insulate both hoses.
I have a setup like this with a keg fridge in the basement & taptower at
the kitchen sink (yes this is true decadence, marriage councilling may have
been my missed calling...)
Some important points:
Only use RV type antifreeze which is non-toxic.
Get a chemical recirculator type pump which has a low output, otherwise
friction will actually HEAT the viscous cold coolant.
Oversize all connections to again avoid restrictions & thus friction & heat.
Use a reservoir of coolant placed in the fridge, the bigger the better to
dilute the returning warmed coolant.
Insulate the lineparticularly wellunder the sink where hot water pipes,
dishwasher drain pipes & metal sinks really heat the surrounding area.
I put the pump inside the fridge as well to help cool it, YMMV.
I tape the beer line to the concrete wall in my unfinished basement & insulate
& find its cooling effect sufficient WITHOUT the pump running for at least
1/2 the year, but this IS the great white north...(-2 C this am!)
I find it a good practice to open faucet for a second or 2 when it hasn't
been used for a few days to purge the foam/stale beer in the upper line
before putting the glass under to fill. I rationalize that this also
mimimizes chances ofdrinking potentially infected beer.
Between kegs I tap a 1/4 keg of hotwater with baking sodato clean &
and soak the line & fittings untilthe next is tapped.
Welcome to "Warren Springs Homepub".
Regards,
Russ Hendry, R.O. Planning In Sunny Invermere BC.(604)342-4225
Fax:342-7016(direct)or-4247 Inet: RHENDRY@MFOR01.FOR.GOV.BC.CA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 12:30:04 MST-0700
From: "Dave Ebert" <Dave.Ebert@UCHSC.edu>
Subject: Oak Chips
I have seen several notes about oak chips in recent HBD's. I agree
that the chips need to be "sterilized" prior to putting them in the
secondary. As a matter of fact I thought I'd share my method. YMMV
I place the chips in a shallow pan. Cover the chips with water and
place on high heat. The boiling water sanitizes the chips and also
becomes flavored by the oak. It also reduces in volume. When I add
the chips to the secondary I also go ahead and pour in the oak chip
tea water. Does a nice job of flavoring the IPA!
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 08:41:31 -0700
From: hollen@vigra.com
Subject: Re: More pubs/yeasts
>>>>> "Jim" == Jim Busch <busch@eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov> writes:
Jim> Dion gets radical:
Dion> <In fact, a RIMS system is
Dion> < *the* most reliable way to produce consistently excellent beer.
Jim> I find this statement very hard to stomach. In my mind, there is
Jim> nothing about a RIMS that allows it to make more reliable beer
Jim> than a traditional fired and well designed system. In fact, I
Jim> venture to suggest that in my 1 BBl pilot system, it is more
Jim> reliable and consistent than any RIMS one BBL system could ever
Jim> be.
Maybe with *you* at the controls, but what if somebody distracts you
just when you were about to stir the mash??
Jim> The key to any system is good even heating, good mixing of
Jim> the goods and good brewers practices, non of which is exclusive
Jim> to a RIMS system.
I totally agree with this statement. However, even though these
qualities are not exclusive to a RIMS, it is my contention that a RIMS
will more consistently produce these qualities than any hand stirred
mashing system. While your system may be excellently designed for
even heating, if you do not do an *excellent* job of stirring, you
will *not* get even heating. The quality of the evenness of the heat
is left up a very large variable, your ability to evenly stir the mash
to distribute the heat throughout it.
Due to the way a RIMS heats the mash, the same temperature
distribution throughout the mash is guaranteed every mash, whether or
not the brewer remembers to stir, because no stirring is necessary.
While I agree that *you* may be able to produce consistency rivalling
a RIMS system, it requires a great deal of care on your part. The
possibility of you introducing differences due to getting a phone
call, or just forgetting are high (regardless of whether you actally
get distracted does not matter, the possibility is exists). The
repeatability of a RIMS system lies solely in the system. The brewer
*CANNOT* forget to evenly heat the mash because it is not up to the
brewer.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 11:39:14 -0700
From: hollen@vigra.com
Subject: Re: Cooling Beer Line
>>>>> "PM" == Millnerp <Millnerp@aol.com> writes:
PM> I have a keg set up in my garage in which I usually keep one
PM> commercial and one homebrew keg. I'd like to run a beer tube into
PM> my den and set up a bar with my tap there. This distance is going
PM> to be about 30-40 feet and according to my caluculations at any
PM> time several ounces of beer will be in the line (Clearly to much
PM> to waste) so I'm wondering how to keep the beer in the line
PM> cool. I assume bars either pour beer fast enough that it does not
PM> get warm or have some type of devise to keep the beer in the line
PM> cool. Does anyone have an inexpensive, simple solution?
The solution from a bar is neither simple nor cheap. They run the
beer lines from the cooler to the taps in a race and along with the
beer lines, they run a glycol line. The glycol line keeps the beer
cool all the way to the tap. It has nothing to do with how quickly
bars go through beer, however, you will certainly have more problems
because of a home use situation being so infrequent. Mostly with your
taps gumming up if they sit for any length of time (days).
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 14:51:00 -0500
From: chriskan@rosevax.rosemount.com (Chris Kantzes)
Subject: Mace leaves
Jay Reeves <73362.600@compuserve.com> wrote:
Now, can someone please help me find something? I'm
looking for blades of mace. This is nothing more than whole
mace before it is ground. Does anyone know where I can
mail-order some?
-Jay Reeves
Huntsville, Alabama, USA
A great place for spices and herbs is Penzeys Ltd. Spice House, in
Waukesha WI. Phone number 414-574-0277. They have both ground
and whole blade mace. Plus, they have pretty much any other
spice/herb you could ever want.
You doing some baking or whipping up a nutmeg replacement for homebrew?
-- Chris Kantzes
-- Fisher-Rosemount Systems Inc.
-- chriskan@rosemount.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 15:25:06 -0500
From: rlarsen@squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen)
Subject: Wyeast 1728 Attenuation / AB yeast
I'd like to bring up a point that someone on the HBD brought up about
Wyeast 1728 (scotch ale) yeast and see what you all think.
He observed as have I, a high attenuation rate with this yeast. So much
in fact that he used it to make a barley wine. I on the other hand used
it to make an imperial stout. Well we both had a great attenuation, I
believ his was 1.090 to 1.015 and mine was 1.110 to 1.020. We both
bottled as usual with a resonable amount of priming sugar and guess
what? His Bwine was flat and my Istout is too.
Tastes good... just flat flat flat.
Has anyone else observed this with this yeast. Once it poops out, its
out! I find it hard to believe that it can do such a good job of
fermenting and then crap out completely. My Istout has been in the
bottle now for over two-three months (I don't have my notes) and it
should be showing SOME signs of fizz.
========
I wanted to add a point about the discussion about AB using the same yeast
in these "new" beers. When I attended the Microbiology course at Siebel
last year, AB made up 50% of the class. These professionals made noises
that they were there to study the "care and feeding" of yeast in preparation
for maintaining new strains for a new "attitude" at AB. So perhaps this was
a prelude to that announcement. Please note that the AB folks were from all
over the country.
I got the impression that there were under some sort of gag order.
=> Rich <rlarsen@squeaky.free.org>
________________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL. Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
"24 Hours in a day... 24 Beers in a case... Coincidence?"
________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 10:06:27 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Aged beer & Mace
> what the hell does wet carboard taste like anyway?
I've seen this question in this and the judgenet forum many times.
There's a very simple way to answer it: get a piece of cardboard, get
it wet, and sniff/taste it.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 1995 17:30:36 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Taste of the Great Lakes Competition and Conference
6th Annual Taste of the Great Lakes Homebrew Competition and Conference.
When: Nov. 3&4, 1995
Where: Frankenmuth, MI
For more information on the conference, contact Jeff Hervert at (517)652-9081.
Competition deadline: October 13, 1995
Competition categories:
Top fermenting beers
TGL category AHA sub-categories
1. Wheat beer (6b, 24a-d)
2. Pale Ale (5a, 6a)
3. IPA (5b)
4. Belgian Styles (2a-g,3a-c)
5. Brown Ale (4a-c)
6. Porter (9a,b)
7. Stout (11a-d)
Bottom fermenting beers
8. Lager (14a,b, 16b,c,e,f)
9. Classic Pilsner (15a,b)
10. Vienna/'fest (17a,b)
11. Bavarian Dark (13a,b)
12. Bock (12a-d)
13. Specialty beer All other AHA categories, excluding
cider, mead, and sake.
Entry requirements:
Maximum of 3 entries per TGL category, and maximum of 1 per AHA subcategory.
2 10-16oz bottles. Use plain caps or blackout brand identification.
A complete Recipe Form, filled out in detail.
A complete Registration (bottle) Form, attached to each bottle with a
rubber band.
All entry fees and forms must accompany the entries.
One entry is US$6.50, 2 are $5.75 each, 3 or more $5.00 each, payable
to THE TASTE OF THE GREAT LAKES.
Entries can be dropped off or sent to
The Taste of the Great Lakes(tm)
Hal Buttermore
6709 Warren Rd.
Ann Arbor, MI 48105
(313)665-1236
- -------------------------------- cut here --------------------------------
Registration Form Registration Form
Name_______________________________ Name_______________________________
Address____________________________ Address____________________________
City,State,Zip_____________________ City,State,Zip_____________________
Phone______________________________ Phone______________________________
TGL Cat.___________________________ TGL Cat.___________________________
AHA SubCat.________________________ AHA SubCat.________________________
- -------------------------------- cut here --------------------------------
RECIPE FORM
BREWER'S INFORMATION
******************************************************
Name(s):
______________________________________________________________________________
Street Address:
______________________________________________________________________________
Phone:
______________________________________________________________________________
Club Affiliation:
______________________________________________________________________________
ENTRY INFORMATION **********************************************************
Name of Brew: ______________________ Special Ingredients/Classic Style:
_____________________________
Category/Subcategory:
_________________________________________________________________________
Category #: __________ Subcategory #: _____________
Recipe is (circle one): All-Grain Partial Mash Extract
INGREDIENTS AND PROCEDURES ********************************************
# of U.S. gals brewed for this recipe: ________
HOPS:
Type Amnt % A Acid Use Time
(oz) (m)
MALT:
Type Amnt Use Time Temp
(lbs)
WATER TREATMENT Type & Amount
_______________________________________
YEAST CULTURE Liquid or Dry? Starter? Y or N
Brand and Type: _________________________
YEAST NUTRIENTS: _________________
CARBONATION: Type: ________________
Amount: ________________________________
Use of Kegs? ____________________________
BOILING TIME: ______ minutes
SPECIFIC GRAVITIES original: ______ terminal: _______
FERMENTATION Duration Temperature deg.F
Primary____________________________________________
Secondary__________________________________________
Other______________________________________________
Bottling Date: _________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 95 15:23 PDT
From: robtrish@mindlink.bc.ca (Rob Lauriston)
Subject: yeast slap-packs
Does anyone happen to know whether the inner pouch in a Wyeast pouch is the
yeast or the nutrient? From the last one I opened, I'd guess nutrient. The
question comes up because last time the inner pouch didn't pop, but seemed
to get a small hole that just gradually deflated the inner pouch. It
swelled okay in two days and the starter seems fine, but I'm curious.
Rob Lauriston ***new address*** <robtrish@mindlink.bc.ca>
the old domain just disappeared suddenly one day...
The Low Overhead Brewery Vernon, B. C.
"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak up
and remove all doubt" -- a chance I have to take
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 17:31:46 -0500
From: blacksab@siu.edu
Subject: more pumps, & long draw systems
I called US Plastics yesterday for the complete specs on the MARCH(tm) pumps
on p.156 (model #'s MDX, MDXT, MDX-3, MDXT-3) and got a call back today
saying they are rated for no more than 140F-deg. This seems a bit low to me
when compared with apparently similar pumps, so I called to confirm, but
tech had gone home. Does anyone know whether this is, in fact, the actual
rating; or have the phone number to March Pumps? Also, since this temerature
rating is for continuous use, how far above it can I go for intermittent
use--in a RIMS, for example. What kind of margins do the manufacturers
usually factor in to such ratings? Any knowlegable engineers out there?
Someone was asking the other day about running a beer line from the garage
to the living room and long draw glycol systems to do it with. Team
Rapids(tm) Wholesale Equipment Co. has a complete system for $1350. But they
also sell the insulated lines (24 feet) for $48. Doesn't Lazyboy make a
recliner with a tap-head in the arm? Sorry;-> Team Rapids Restaurant & Bar
Equipment, 1-800-4RAPID1 (472-7431).
TIA,
--Harlan Bauer
--Harlan Bauer <blacksab@siu.edu>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 21:45:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: CLAY@prism.clemson.edu
Subject: Newcastle Brown Ale
Recipe? Source of the distinctive flavor? Thanks in advance?
"faq? I can barley manage to read my mail and you want me to wander around
tying up other people's machines looking for a faq?"
Regards,
C
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1839, 09/23/95
*************************************
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