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HOMEBREW Digest #1846
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/10/02 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1846 Mon 02 October 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
RE: Cream ale clones --which country's style? (uswlsrap)
Unsolicited E-mail (Dave Ballard)
Re: Brewing/Drinking Age (Gary McCarthy)
Children & Perils of Fermentation (Jeffrey Quick)
Re: Yeast for bread? (Jeff Renner)
list privacy (Rolland Everitt)
***Salt City Contest*** ("Kieran O'Connor")
unsub homebrew@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com ("Kaso, Matthew G")
epoxy vs. solder (Tim Laatsch)
PH Meters and Astringency problem (MClarke950)
pictures of beer glasses (Wolfgang Wedel)
Hops in concentrated wort (Stephbrown)
RE: Ontario cream ales (uswlsrap)
Re: RE Abe & Al's on prohibition/ the House / infusion defs (Tim Fields)
Tuning the Freezer / Mail Order Gott ? (Saylor1/Apple)
Natural gas burners (Philip Gravel)
Re: Racist HBD mail about Piranhas (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
Effect of Hop Bags on IBUs (Tim Fields)
Green beer (CANCERPIMPLE)
Results - TRUB VII (Mike Lelivelt)
Extract Numbers & Conversion (again) (Kirk R Fleming)
RIMS return/false bottom (DONBREW)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 14:37:36 EDT
From: uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Subject: RE: Cream ale clones --which country's style?
In #1844 Jeff (Not Nancy) Renner shares his reply to a rcb request
for a Cream Ale recipe similar to Sleeman's or Hart:
(Sorry, I don't do rcb, so I can't identify the inquirer or know if
s/he will see my reply)
I get the impression that "Cream Ale" means something different in
Canada from what it means here in the U.S. and the AHA guidelines.
Shaftebury (Vancouver) has a "Cream Ale" that I would classify more
as a mild. I didn't have any exposure to Little Kings until I went
to university in the midwest, but I grew up with Genny Cream, so I do
have an idea of the U.S. style, although my palate was undoubtedly
less refined when I was a teen ;-) (I lost patience with domestic swill
very quickly, and switched to imports fairly early because there were
few-to-(almost)-no craft beers widely available in the Northeast--
although my hometown _did_ have the first micro in the Great Northeast
(Bill Newman, 1981), but that wasn't until I was an older teen.)
I don't have much experience with Sleeman's (Guelph, I think), which,
from the little I've tasted of any of their beers, are barely a step
above the big-two. On a recent trip to Ontario, I did get to try some
of the brews of Hart Brewing (Carleton Place, a suburb of Ottawa). Mr. Hart
does like his hops :-) (at least by Ontario standards), and (disclaimer:
writing without tasting notes at hand) I tried the Cream Ale, and if
I'm not confusing it with one of the other Hart beers, seemed to be like
a lower gravity bitter--maybe not as low as an ordinary. If I recall
correctly, Wellington (also in Guelph) also does a Cream Ale (and that
may have been one of the Wellington beers I had on handpump :-) --and
we're not talking any Pocket Beer Engine here ;-) ), as does Kingston
Brewing. If these beers are the model the original inquirer had in
mind, I would stay away from the six-row (and won't _I_ have trub on my
face if it turns out that those brews use six-row? :-) ). These beers
(again, not necessarily speaking for Sleeman's, which isn't awful, it
just isn't as interesting as the other wonderful beers that are out there).
aren't pseudo-lagers like Little Kings or Genessee.
As long as I'm on the topic of Ontario beers, there is another (since July,
I believe) craft brewery in the little city of Guelph--F&M Brewing, named
for Rich Fortnum and Charles Maclean. They make a pale ale and a pils
sold in six-packs of 660ml (22 ounce) bottles. Wonderful stuff, even if
the hops are a bit toned down in the pale ale. (As we chatted over a beer
at the brewery, Rich did agree that "hops are our friends," but I suppose
they may not sell as well as we might like.)
Hart has quite an influence in the province's craft beer scene. Aside from
the beers bearing his name, he also contract brews one of the regular beers
at Kingston Brewing (brewpub) and apparently did some "consulting" for
Addington's, Ottawa's newest brewpub (I tasted their beers a day before
the official opening--the pale ale was the clear standout, although the
bartender said that the wheat (a wimpy North American wheat, not a weizen)
seemed to be the most popular among the people at the party) and those
wonderful lupuline friends of ours were right there in the pale ale
for all to enjoy.)
If in Ottawa, seek out "The Arrow and the Loon"--16 (or 17?) taps plus
a tap for root beer, including three handpumps! Beers from Hart,
another local brewery/name escapes me/it's in Nepean, Wellington,
Niagara Falls, and probably one or two others. I think they had a
Sleeman's tap for the less adventurous, and they did serve swill in
bottles for those who wanted it. 16 taps is a big deal for that town--
at least when it's 16 taps without any wasted on the big-two
or the usual collection of imports. It's a member of the "Neighbourhood
Pub Group" and definitely worth a visit.
Sorry for the length, but I'd hate to see someone get a Little Kings
clone when s/he was really trying to duplicate another beer....and
once I got going on those Hart beers, well, I couldn't stop :-)
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Madison
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 15:02:33 -0400
From: Dave Ballard <ballardd@pinn.net>
Subject: Unsolicited E-mail
Dear homebrewers,
On the occasion of my first ever posting to this distinguished
group, I am sad. I too have become the recipient of unsolicited white hate
e-mail. Since this is my first post, the sender of the mail could not have
taken my e-mail address from an article. If this group is monitoring the
Usenet beer groups, then we all can have our addresses compromised.
However, the person(s) responsible did post their Web URL. It is
www.natvan.com. They are the National Alliance and proud of it. Their
e-mail address is national@natvan.com. Their stealth e-mail address is
Crusader@National.Alliance.
I PINGed National.Alliance and that did not register, but natvan.com
does and the Web page is up. I suggest that anyone who recieves an
unsolicited e-mail from these people, please let them know what you think.
Back to good beer...
Dave Ballard
ballardd@pinn.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 16:40:00 -0700
From: gmccarthy@dayna.com (Gary McCarthy)
Subject: Re: Brewing/Drinking Age
In HBD 1844, genitom@nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael Genito) writes:
>This would seem to suggest that states may make individual rulings
> based or not on the legal drinking age of 21. BTW, all states now
>require 21 for drinking or purchasing.
I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that possession and purchasing of
alcoholic beverages for underage people is illegal in all states. The states
(or the US Govt) define what "underage" means. I do not think that possession
and purchasing of homebrewing supplies is regulated(at least as an age issue)
in any state.
Kenneth K Goodrow <goodrow@orion.etsu.edu> writes:
>Am I trully safer if I drive 55 than 56 (no flames from
>statisticians, please. ha ha)? I think many people have
>been conditioned to feel wrong about responsible "underage"
>or "over-the-speed-limit" behaviors
Gotta disagree with you here, Kenneth. There is plenty of evidence to show
that 55 is much safer than 65, or 70 in most of the driving situations one
will encounter. The speed limit laws *ought* to be obeyed. First, I try not
to use my auto, but second, I try to drive the speed limit in all cases. I am
constantly amazed by those people who *have* to go 60 in a 40-mph zone, or 45
in a 25mph zone( or just 20 miles over the limit) and I just like to wave at
them as I pull up to that stop light that they *obey* just because they have
been *conditioned* to feel it is wrong to trundle on through it. I would
guess that you, Kenneth, stop at lights, and don't complain about obeying that
programmed condition. Let me challenge you Kenneth, today on your way home
from work, obey all the speed limits. Did it take you any longer to get home?
Pierre Jelenc <pcj1@columbia.edu> writes:
>As long as you drink, or drive, or both on your own private
>property, I see no objections.
I agree with you, Pierre. There are so many laws which if I do something
that does not *hurt* anyone in any way, on my property, I could still be
subject to severe prosecution. Take just one example: If I grow a certain
mildly intoxicating plant, similair to hops, on my property, for my own use,
is this a crime? Yes, it is. Why is that? No one knows! But I can go to
any store in this country and get a pack of cigs, and smoke them on the
street, and no one cares!!! Cigs have been responsible for *hurting*
millions of people.(you could make the same argument for alcohol, but since I
drink, screw that analogy).
So whats the point? Laws which protect the society from the acts of one or a
group of persons ought to be obeyed. Laws which do not have an impact on
anyone else ought to be challenged.
Gary McCarthy in Salt Lake City. gmccarthy@dayna.com
Reality is for those who cannot handle drugs!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 19:27:21 -0400
From: jaquick@en.com (Jeffrey Quick)
Subject: Children & Perils of Fermentation
>From: "Matthew W. Bryson" <MWBryson@LANMAIL.RMC.COM>
>Subject: re:Homebrew Digest #1842 (September 27, 1995)
>
> Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that one must be 21 years old
>to homebrew( legally) anywhere in the U.S.. As to the other question...
>well, I was one of the last people in my state( by birthday) that could
>legally drink beer at age 18. I don't think that extortion by the federal
>government was necessary or morally correct; it is certainly illegal for
>ME to hold states hostage by threat of monetary loss. I wish that states
>could be allowed to make their own decision in this regard.
AH! Expecting governments to behave by the same rules they apply to their
citizens? You aren't a..a...a LIBERTARIAN, are you? (Obviously not; you
have no problem with states making drinking age rules.)
As in the states where homebrewing is illegal, there is really nothing the
government can do to stop homebrewing, underage or otherwise. They can
take the fun out by forbidding you to exhibit, they could make it illegal
for you to buy supplies ("paraphernalia" in drug-law parlance), but they
basically don't have the manpower to investigate what goes on in your own
home. And I like it that way.
And thanks to Fred Hardy for his nice piece of "historically-informed" (as
we say in the Early Music business) brewing. Anyone else do anything along
these lines? More detail, Fred? As an apartment dweller and (horrors!)
extract brewer, I'm not ready to try it yet, but it makes good reading.
Jeffrey Quick.
"Windows '84- Cupertino's gift to mankind."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 95 22:14:37 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Re: Yeast for bread?
Marla Korchmar <marlak@pipeline.com> of Brooklyn, NY (I second Spencer's
request for signatures with locations) askes:
> With all this talk about re-using yeast, I'm inspired to use some of
> my next batch's leftovers for baking bread. Can any of the bakers
I think that's me - the resident baker!
> reading give me a sense of how much yeast slurry to "pitch" in my
> bread? (Recipes I have mostly use about 7 cups of flour.)
I find that a 1/4 oz dry or 1/2 oz fresh basker's yeast is about right
to raise this amount of flour. Many recipes call for more, but that
gives speed at the expense of flavor. That said, however, I must
suggest more brewing yeast, since it is not nearly as fast as baker's
yeast. I have baked with harvested ale yeast, and really like the
flavor. I think it is better than bread made with baker's yeast. But
it has been some time, so I'll have to guess at what I used. If it's
too much, the bread will just taste yeasty. Too little, and it will
just take longer to rise.
First, it is probably a good idea to wash the yeast, as many old sources
say the bread will be bitter otherwise. I put my harvested yeast in a
mason jar and washed it with cold tap water, then let it settle in the
fridge overnight. I would guess that 2 tablespoons of hard packed yeast
(like putty) would be about right to start. If it is a more watery
slurry, use more. It would probably work best to make a sponge with
your liquid, yeast, any sweetening and ~3 cups of flour first. Let this
rise until it is about to collapse, then add the rest of the ingredients
and proceed as usual.
Have fun, and why not report back to the HBD on your results?
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 07:10:28 -0400
From: af509@osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: list privacy
Someone recently wrote in to tell about some unwanted junk mail
he was receiving, and to wonder about how the send got his address.
There are any number of ways this could have happened. Everyone
on this list should be aware that this is a public review list.
This means that anyone, list member or not, can send a REVIEW
BEER-L command to the listserv@uavm1.ua.edu and receive, by
return mail, a list of subscribers and their e-mail addresses. To
prevent your name from being distributed in this way, send a
message to this same address with the following single line in
the body of the message (subject line doesn't matter)
SET CONCEAL
Oops, make that address listserv@ua1vm.ua.edu
Of course, this does not prevent anyone from getting your address
from a posted message in a current or archived edition of the
digest.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 07:40:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Kieran O'Connor" <koconnor@syr.edu>
Subject: ***Salt City Contest***
Announcing the Salt City Brew Club's (Syracuse, NY) 10th annual contest.
We hope you'll enter and/or judge at our annual competition. here's why
you should do so:
1) Best fo Show First prize earns a $200 gift certificate to a local shop
(he also does mail order)
2) ****We'll take any size bottle, any color bottle, and even carbonators
(which will be returned).*****
3) We have nifty prizes for each category.
4) We'll be having a mini pub crawl after the event
5) There are spiffy extras for those who judge/steward.
6) Meads and ciders will be accepted and will compete in their own best
of show. The Best of show prize is a $50 gift certificate to a
homebrewshop, and three bottles of commercial mead.
If you'd like a competition packet, please email me, or call (315)
449-2844. Write to Kieran O'Connor, 313 Cooper Lane, DeWitt, NY 13214.
The contest date is November 11, deadline for entries, October 28.
Kieran
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kieran O'Connor
koconnor@syr.edu
Syracuse, N.Y. USA
In vino veritas; in cervesio felicitas.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 09:19:57 EDT
From: "Kaso, Matthew G" <MKASO@NMU.EDU>
Subject: unsub homebrew@hpfcmgw.fc.hp.com
signoff *(netwide
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 09:51:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Tim Laatsch <LAATSCH@kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: epoxy vs. solder
Hi All,
In the Zymurgy Gadgets and Equipment Special Issue (1992), Randy Mosher
advises against the use of solder to connect copper joints that will come into
contact with beer or wort. He uses statements like,
* "avoid contact with wort or beer"
* "a tin and lead mixture; toxic to yeast; haze former; ** avoid even
lead-free solder **"
* "lead-free solder is less toxic, but is mostly tin, which may be leached
out by the acidic wort or beer...Avoid solder if you can."
I had always been under the assumption that lead-free solder was OK for
making copper manifolds. I was definitely planning on using it in the
construction of my RIMS. Can some lurking metallurgist (John Palmer??) or
other knowledgeable person make definitive comment on this subject?
If even lead-free solder is NOT OK, then I presume epoxy would be an
alternative. What types are most suitable? i.e. food-grade, non-toxic,
non-leachable, heat tolerant, durable, etc? I would prefer solder for
durability, but I don't want any long-term heavy metal exposure.
Thanks for any help.
Tim
*=============================================================================*
| Timothy P. Laatsch | email: laatsch@kbs.msu.edu | Aspiring |
| Graduate Student-Microbiology | biz phone: 616-671-2329 | All-Grain |
| Michigan State University/KBS | fax: 616-671-2104 | Homebrewer |
| Kalamazoo, MI | obsession: Pale Ale | & Scientist|
*=============================================================================*
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 11:38:58 -0400
From: MClarke950@aol.com
Subject: PH Meters and Astringency problem
Hi all,
PH Meters: Sorry I know this was discussed recently, but I didn't save
the information. I'd like to get a good PH meter, easy to use and doesn't
cost a bundle. Recommendations?
Astringency problems in beer: I'm looking for reasons for astringency in
beer. The reason most often cited is over-sparging. PH of sparge water
could be another, temperature of sparge water as well. My problem was
pointed out in a couple of contests I entered. I'm looking for ideas
and solutions.
My mash and sparge usually usually go like this:
I mash in a kettle in an insulated box. 1.33 quarts of water to pound of
grain. (Water treatment for Bitters: 2 tsp Gypsum, .5 tsp table Salt, and
.5 Epsom Salt.) I perform a mashout, bring the mash to 170F and then let
it sit for 15 minutes. I heat 5 gallons of sparge water to 175F.
I lay 6 quarts of foundation water in the lauter tun. The mash is
transferred to the Zappap style lauter tun. I recycle about 12 quarts of
sweet wort through the grain bed. I keep the water level about an inch
above the top of grain bed. Neither the lauter tun or the liquor tank is
insulated. I usually use all the sparge water. I know I should be checking
PH and SG, but I haven't been. I guess I'll start (hence the PH meter
request.)
Thanks to Fred Hardy on the Medieval beers info, great stuff! And
Jeff Renner for the low alcohol Cream Ale recipe.
Cheers,
Mike Clarke in Seattle, WA. USA (MClarke950@aol.com)
------------------------------
Date: 30 Sep 95 17:32:27 +0100
From: faros@ping.at (Wolfgang Wedel)
Subject: pictures of beer glasses
I am looking for pictures of different beer glasses. Could someone please tell
me where I can ftp some?
Thank you very much
Wolfgang
________________________________________________________________
Wolfgang L. Wedel faros@ping.at
Vienna/Austria Fido: 2:310/78.8
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 13:55:44 -0400
From: Stephbrown@aol.com
Subject: Hops in concentrated wort
I'm going to try to do a ten gallon batch of beer next week, but I only have
an 8 gallon kettle. I'm going to mash 20 lbs (or so) with as little water as
I can get away with. Then I will boil the somewhat more concentrated wort.
Now, I suppose that this wort will be about as concentrated as a typical
extract brew, so perhaps this is an issue that could be considered for
extract brewers, and hell, even for the rest of us, really.
Here is the question:
Since the concentrated wort will reduce hop utilization, has anyone ever
tried boiling the hops in a seperate vessel with just water, then adding that
water to the wort after the boil? Not considering all of the complex
chemical reactions involved, one might expect that this would lead to even
better extraction than boiling in a normal concentration wort.
If anyone has any advice about this, either for experience, or supposition,
I'd love to hear your comments.
Stephen Brown
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 14:05:35 EDT
From: uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Subject: RE: Ontario cream ales
A correction to my reply to Jeff Renner:
Wellington does not do a cream ale. I had the HART cream ale at The
Arrow and the Loon, and the Hart was on handpump, next to two Wellington
offerings on handpump, hence the error when writing from memory rather
than my notes. And, yes, the Hart cream ale was nothing like the US
style of that name; that I verified from my tasting notes.
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Madison
------------------------------
Date: 30 Sep 95 13:26:29 EDT
From: Tim Fields <74247.551@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: RE Abe & Al's on prohibition/ the House / infusion defs
In #1845, Keith Royster, Mooresville, NC, USA (KRoyster@mro.ehnr.state.nc.us)
writes about the Anti-prohibition quotes he attributes to Abraham Lincoln and
Albert Einstein:
>I am including them so that we may all be better armed to respond to those who
wish to legislate >their moral views against alcohol on the rest of us:
I assume this has to do with the recent drinking age postings? I'm not going to
take a stand on this one because there are many many factors that I feel need to
be considered before making a reasoned conclusion - and I'd rather spend that
time brewing or riding my motorcycle :-)
Keith concludes his post with this:
>[WARNING: These same quotes apply to the Prohibition laws against other drugs.
Don't use these >quotes if you believe in the War On Drugs, as they may be
turned against you!] =)
Are you saying that Abe and Al were pro on legalizing *all* drugs? I doubt
it... If you are using the quotes to illustrate your own opinion, that's your
prerogative. Free speech is ok by me.
- ------------------
Later in the same issue, bgros@mindseye.berkeley.edu (Bryan) writes:
>Currently, the House is considering repealing the federal law [21 drinking
age], which
>will allow states to set thier own restrictions lower if they feel like it.
>As for what a reasonable drinking age should be, I find it hard to say.
>I agree with all posts so far and for a variety of other reasons that raising
>the drinking age is doing no one any good (except maybe some republicans)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>and it should certainly be lower.
I would point out (with no flame intended) that you have a bit of a
contradiction here, Bryan. If a 21 drinking age is good for "some republicans"
(by the way, which ones - and why?) how can it be that the
Republican-controlled house is proposing to eliminate the law? Republicans tend
to be for less federal regulation, not more.
- --------
And, later on flemingk@usa.net (Kirk R Fleming) comments about Al's definition
of "infusion" and offers his own. He finishes up with this:
>There, now I believe we have thread you can sink your teeth into.
Chewchewchew... I like this definition... well, OK - it's actually a definition
of "infusionism" but that is close enough for this challenge ;-) And I quote
from The World Book Dictionary: "infusionism. the doctrine that the soul has
existed in a previous state and is infused into the body at conception or
birth". NONONO-this isn't a rekindling of the religion thread. Does have some
interesting parallels with brewing tho (IMHO).
"reeb!" - Tim
Tim Fields...Fairfax, VA
74247.551@compuserve.com or timfields@aol.com (weekends)
timf@relay.com (non-brewing time)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 15:09:38 -0700
From: Saylor1/Apple@eworld.com
Subject: Tuning the Freezer / Mail Order Gott ?
First question is why do most folks go out and buy those AC thermostats when
the one in your freezer/fridg are adjustable? I've recently converted a
stand up freezer into a largering fridge by taking apart the orig. thermostat
and finding the calibration set screw. Looks like it tensions a simple
spring mech. that must have variable spring tension based on temp. Anyway
after some experimentation I have the freezer running at x 50xF..... am I
missing something?
BTW it was a BIG pain in the neck to remove one of the shelves in this thing
as they are all outfitted with coiling line. I ended up gingerly folding the
shelf down being very careful to not damage the feed and return lines in any
way. This was the only way my primaries would fit.... but the price was
right on the freezer.
Second question; Anyone know of a mail order house that supplies the 10Gal
Gott? I'm sick of hunting around for one and want to convert over from my
present system ASAP. Please let me know if anyone has info leading to a mail
order Gott. TIA
- Steve
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 95 20:57 CDT
From: pgravel@mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Natural gas burners
===> Paul Sovcik asks about natural gas burners
> I have recently moved and my new house has a nifty heated garage (a nice
>touch for Chicago winters...) that uses natural gas as a heating source.
>
> I have a gas line that runs thru the garage that would be very easy to
>tap into and have a nice brewing set-up that will allow me to brew in the
>garage all winter without the wife complaining about the smell.
>
> My question is: what type of burner can I use for this setup? I know
>King Kookers etc. are popular, but these seem to run off propane, and I
>thought they are not suitable for NG.
>
> Anyone have suggestions as to what type and how powerful a burner I will
>need? I will probably be brewing 5-10 gallon batches.
Use a burner that comes out of an old natural gas fired water heater.
They're about 30K to 40K BTU and should be adequate for heating 5-10
gallons of wort. You might be able to use a burner designed for use
with propane but you'll have to change the jet.
- --
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel@mcs.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 95 20:07:21 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Racist HBD mail about Piranhas
I too received the current bit of poison mail going to HBDers, I replied.
"Dear Crusader,
I have actually swum in a Amazonian piranha filled lagoon, even after being
bitten by one. You see, piranahas like most of us (racists included) suffer
from simplistic stereotyping. Piranhas are a timid fish, actually easily
frightened away by splashing. I find them good eating and comfortable swiming
companions whose teeth I avoid, not fearful bogeyfish. Using them as an analogy
betrays your fear. There are rational fears of social disintegration and crime,
and irrational simplistic views that play on fear and prejudice.
I am less comfortable with racists or elitists whose fear of somebody
different, poorer, foreign speaking etc leads them to such stupidity as
thinking that craft brewing enthusiasts would make fertile recruiting ground
for such narrow views. Beer and the spirit of generousity with which it is
brewed and discussed *cross culturally* tends to ferment a rich krausen of
mellow tolerance.
I am confident we all of keep our white sheets in our linen closets, not our
wardrobes!
BTW Crusader, are you "all grain" or "extract", that is how *we* discriminate!
Charlie (Brisbane, Australia)"
------------------------------
Date: 01 Oct 95 12:05:01 EDT
From: Tim Fields <74247.551@compuserve.com>
Subject: Effect of Hop Bags on IBUs
Brewers,
Does the use of a hop bag with whole hops (or pellets for that matter)
result in lower observed IBU rates than if the hop bag is not used? I'm
concerned that the hops are not getting full contact with the wort. I
saw one recipe in CM3 where the author adds10% more hops to account for
the bag, and I'm wondering what others think about this - and about use
of hop bags in general.
"Reeb!"
- Tim
Tim Fields...Fairfax, VA
74247.551@compuserve.com _or_ timfields@aol.com (weekends)
timf@relay.com (non-brewing time)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 03:15:09 +0930 (CST)
From: CANCERPIMPLE <zoz@teaching.cs.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Green beer
|> From: Scott Christian Gruber <gruber@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
|> Subject: A feindish idea... but would it work?
|>
|> A friend and I were brainstorming possible future brews and I came up
|> with an interesting idea. We were thinking about St. Patrick's Day and
|> beer and how bars sometimes color their beer green for the occasion when
|> the idea hit me: What if I were to brew a GREEN St. Patrick's Day stout?
|> Something thick, black, and tasty, but with a rich, creamy, GREEN head?
|>
|> A little strange, yes. Somewhat scary, even. But could it be done?
It could indeed! Many moons ago, when someone on the HBD suggested brewing
a mint beer, I took it upon myself to brew one - and I decided to make it
green, both for the mint and for St Pat's. It came out as a *very*
refreshing summer ale - I call it Toxic Waste.
|> So I was wondering if anyone on the HBD had any ideas: Would regular food
|> coloring work?
That's what I used - green food colouring. The ale came out as an olive
green colour, but it should be OK for just the head of a stout. If anyone
wants to brew a green ale I'd suggest throwing some blue in there as well.
|> Would it change the flavor of the beer very much?
Not in the slightest!
|> How much
|> would I need for 5 gallons?
I used a 25 mL bottle for a 20 L batch. It didn't make the head particularly
green though so you might need more.
|> Would I add it to the boil or immediately
|> afterwards?
I just chucked it in the primary.
|> Would chemicals in the food coloring kill the beer
|> (or the drinker, for that matter)? Has anyone else ever thought of
|> or done anything like this?
No and yes - No it wouldn't kill nuffin', and yes I've done it!
|> Just a thought. I'll post the results if anybody is interested (Though I
|> doubt anyone else is sick and twisted enough... ;-)
;) Sick and twisted I have been described as, yes... :)
Zoz
- --
______ _____________ ______________________ ______
/\####/\ / / / / /\####/\
/ \##/ \ /_______ / / _ ______ / / \##/ \
/____\/____\ / / / / \ \ / / /____\/____\
\####/\####/ / /____\ \_/ / / /_______ \####/\####/
\##/ \##/ / / / / \##/ \##/
\/____\/ /_____________________/ /____________/ \/____\/
zoz@cs.adelaide.edu.au
If you see a blind man, run up and kick him.
Why should you be kinder than God?
-- Old Iranian Proverb
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:50:18 -0400
From: lelivelt@med.unc.edu (Mike Lelivelt)
Subject: Results - TRUB VII
Results from TRUB VII
Durham, NC
September 30, 1995
255 Entries
Category Name City State
1 CA Common Clif Rinehart Carrboro NC
2 Alt Ronald Bach Winter Springs FL
3 CA Common Rich Danberg Durham NC
1 Am. Pale Ale Gary Brower Charlotte NC
2 Am. Pale Ale Clif Rinehart Carrboro NC
3 Am. Pale Ale Pete Newsome Chapel Hill NC
1 Barley Wine Keith Houck Chapel Hill NC
2 Barley Wine Gary Michel Orlando FL
3 Barley Wine Rick Foote Murrayville GA
1 Belgian Ale Delano DuGarm VA
2 Dubbel Ron Raike Orlando FL
3 Belgian Ale William Watt Garden City NJ
1 Fruit Lambic Ron Raike Orlando FL
2 Lambic/Kriek Tim Artz Lorton VA
3 Lambic Mark Groshek Denver CO
1 Wit Ron Raike Orlando FL
2 Wit Ron Raike Orlando FL
3 Wit Tim Artz Lorton VA
1 Special Bruce Pitner Durham NC
2 Special Rhett Rebold Burke VA
3 Special Gary Michel Orlando FL
1 English Mild Murray Anderegg Chapel Hill NC
2 American Brown David Pappas Ocoee FL
3 Scottish Light Bryan Cronk Wake Forest NC
1 Munich Dunkel Martin Stokes Old Town ME
1 Oktoberfest Gary Gutowski Eglin AFB FL
3 Oktoberfest Bryan Cronk Wake Forest NC
1 Eng. Pale Ale Jim Buie Raleigh NC
2 Eng. Pale Ale Bob Taylor Chapel Hill NC
3 Eng. Pale Ale Charles Lawhon Holly Springs NC
1 Fruit Andrew Henckler Oberlin OH
2 Herb Beer Mike Westman State College PA
3 Fruit Keith Houck Chapel Hill NC
1 American Wheat Bill Bunning Langley AFB VA
2 Kolsch Kieth Houck Chapel Hill NC
3 Kolsch Bob &Linda Heckman Charlotte NC
1 Bohemian Pils Clif. Rinehart Carrboro NC
2 Bohemian Pils Rhett Rebold Burke VA
3 Am Stand Martin Stokes Old Town ME
1 Still Trad Kirk Nelson Durham NC
2 Sparkling Dry Gary Michel Orlando FL
3 Still Metheglin Suzette Smith Madison NJ
1 Brown Porter Bryan Cronk Wake Forest NC
2 Brown Porter Bob & Linda Heckman Charlotte NC
3 Robust Porter Clif. Rinehart Carrboro NC
1 Bamberg Rauch Keith Klemp Durham NC
2 Specialty: Martin Stokes Old Town ME
3 specialty Bill MacKenzie Raleigh NC
1 Dry Stout Martin Stokes Old Town ME
2 Foreign Stout John Ciccarelli Cary NC
3 Foreign Stout Gary Michel Orlando FL
1 Strong Scotch Rhett Rebold Burke VA
2 Strong Scotch Larry D.Gray Cincinnati OH
3 Imperial Stout Kirk Nelson Durham NC
1 Weizen Mark Groshek Denver CO
2 Weizen Richard Todd Raleign NC
3 Berliner Weisse Bob & Linda Heckman Charlotte NC
Best of Show - Ron Raike, Fruit Lambic
First Runner Up - Clifford A. Rinehart, CA Common
Second Runner Up - Murray Anderegg, English Mild
=======================================================================
Mike Lelivelt lelivelt@med.unc.edu
Univ of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 919-408-0451 home
Dept of Microbiology & Immunology BJCP Certified Judge
=======================================================================
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 18:58:36 -0600
From: flemingk@usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: Extract Numbers & Conversion (again)
In #1843 (KennyEddy@aol.com) asks about grain conversion:
> On sorta the same topic, I would think that roasting grains would destroy
> some to all of the starch's conversion capability, yet I see malts like
> chocolate or even black patent listed with extractions not much different
> that pale malts. The stock answer I get for these questions is "well,
> we don't use a high percentage of these grains so we just ignore those
> effects". But I would like to know anyway.
Not a good stock answer. This issue was discussed in HBDs around #1718
or #1719, and again just recently in #1839. All those exchanges center
around the fact that the "extractions" cited do not have the meaning
implied in the quote above. The implication is that the values given
for the extract of a malt (say, in points per pound per gallon) indicate
something about the diastatic power of the malt (it's enzyme content and
consequent ability to convert starches to sugars). This isn't so and
again I'd like to stress that the 'extract' figures given for grains of
any kind are a measure of one thing and one thing only: the specific
gravity of the solubles in the grain, WHATEVER THEY MAY BE.
Now, if the numbers (such as 38 points per pound per gallon for pale ale)
come from performing a standard lab mash (per the European Brewing
Convention or the ASBC for example), then you could probably say they
represent values obtained after saccharification has occurred. However,
these 'standard' mashes can be performed on non-malt grains as well, and
you would still get some 'extract' value. Likewise, you could simply boil
the grains and still expect to get 'extract' values fairly close to those
obtained with a bona fide mash.
My point is, whether or not he grain has enzymatic power, whether it has
been malted or not, none of this has any particular bearing on whether it
contributes to the specific gravity of wort. The ONLY two things that
matter in this regard are: 1) how much material in the grain is soluble,
and 2) the average specific gravity of those soluble materials.
Take this concept to the limit--if you saw a list of grains and their
'extract' values, then noticed an entry such as "NaOH 1.048", would you
be surprised? Does this mean lye has any diastatic power, or starch
content, or fermentable sugars? Of course not. Still, you should not
be surprised to find that a pound of drain cleaner adds 48 points of sg
to each gallon of wort. [I pulled 48 out of my ear--this is an example.]
I hope by using this ridiculous example I've cleared this up a little
bit. These statements represent my understanding of the problem and if
you think I'm off base, your comments are solicited but please, as always,
no wagering.
KRF Colorado Springs
- ------------------------------------------------------
"We can help the cause of pale ale both by drinking it
and brewing it as much as possible." Terry Foster
- ------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:38:42 -0400
From: DONBREW@aol.com
Subject: RIMS return/false bottom
In my RIMS I just return the liquid thru a 1/2 inch pipe onto a plastic
lid from a 2 gallon bucket that floats in the tun.
My false bottom is made out of the piece of SS that was cut out of the
_bottom_ of the keg. I got a couple of cobalt 3/32 drill bits and had at it
for a few hours of lubricated drilling (sounds dirty). I had an old tapper
laying around that I disassembled and rigged to use as the outlet on the now
bottom.
Don
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1846, 10/02/95
*************************************
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