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HOMEBREW Digest #1833
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/09/16 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1833 Sat 16 September 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Do no use TSP on glass (hollen)
Re: Propane Cookers (hollen)
Re: SEEING RED? (hollen)
SWEET BLUEBERRY ALE (Mike Morgan)
Mash tun size - summary/PVC manifolds/Kettles (Dave Riedel)
(U) Labels (rich.byrnes)
Wyeast 1338 / Scotch ale questions (Jeff)
Injection Priming : A new way to bottle prime (Don Seidle)
Injection Priming - A new way to bottle prime 10/14/95 (Seidle_Don/cal2_djseidl)
Infusion Mash Temp Chart/Tun Recommendation ("Penn, Thomas")
Mash Tun Percolator? (krkoupa)
sampling malts and finished our first beer ("Alex R.N. Wetmore")
Australian Beer Competitions (Andy Walsh)
Cheap cooker at an RV shop (Eric Palmer)
Brewpubs in Cleveland/Scum skimming/extract brew coloring (GeepMaley)
dextrin malt and chewable beer (Eric Palmer)
Steelhead Brewing (Steve McKeeby (Phone 616-342-3102 - Fax 616-342-3718))
RE:Brewing a coffee Porter - How/when/where to add the coffee (aflinsch)
RE: RTP yeast distribution (NHS Phone #) (Eric W. Miller)
Bottling (SCHWAB_BRYAN)
hops and head (Christopher R. Vyhnal)
Re: All-Grain Starter Wort (Jim Cave)
gelatin fining ? (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
REQ: Small Batch Recipes ("Mike Whitehorne")
Repitching, Gott. (Russell Mast)
Re: HCl Sources? (Why?!?) (Steve Dempsey)
Ferrulic acid (Jim Busch)
GABF (tm) anyone? (Aubrey Howe)
Hopback/HSA frustrations (Aubrey Howe)
<None> (Don Rudolph)
Re: 3 monts (Russell Mast)
Dean Miller's forgotten beer (Michael Genito)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 08:22:52 -0700
From: hollen@vigra.com
Subject: Re: Do no use TSP on glass
>>>>> "Ronald" == Ronald J La Borde <rlabor@lsumc.edu> writes:
Ronald> In #1829 Robert wrote:
>> They sell TSP at the local wine shop, here in Berkeley.
Ronald> I have purchased TSP in a local giant supermarket. I was
Ronald> planing to use it for general glass bottle and carboy
Ronald> cleaning. Upon reading the product label I read that the
Ronald> product was not to be used on glass. WHAT!!!!!
I have been using chlorinated TSP (only 5% is not TSP) to soak and
clean bottles and remove labels. Yes it is hard to rinse off, but
with hot water, it comes off quite well. I have never noticed any
problems at all and I have let the bottles soak for weeks before
rinsing.
Other people have reported that if you ever let TSP dry on glass, then
you are in for real trouble, but I have not had that experience, knock
wood.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 08:09:37 -0700
From: hollen@vigra.com
Subject: Re: Propane Cookers
>>>>> "Brian" == Brian Barnett <barnett@slc.unisys.com> writes:
Brian> Several people have recommended Camp Chef and Superb 35K BTU
Brian> cookers. Does the Camp Chef require modification to work
Brian> efficiently? It appears that the burner will be quite far from
Brian> the keg when its placed on the heating grate. The model I
Brian> looked at has four legs, a squarish grate, and a cylindrical
Brian> shield around the burner. I found this unit priced at $65.00.
This burner seems quite similar to the Kamp Kooker by Metal Fusion
(same people that make the King Kooker). You are setting a keg right
on the angle iron grate. The burner is about 2" below the grate and
the bottom of the keg is about 2" above the bottom of the chine. This
means a separation of about 4-6" from burner to keg bottom. If your
setup is different, then my next remarks may not hold.
It will be no problem at all. When you crank up a 135K BTU burner, it
will put out a tongue of flame about 12" high. Of course, this is at
high heat. The nice thing about the cast burner style is that you can
adjust it down to little teeny flames also, unlike the single jet
burners. The space between the burner and the bottom of the keg is
*necessary*. You need some space for the flames to spread out and
also some space for the flue gases to dissipate. Trust me on this
one, unless your burner is significantly different from the Kamp
Kooker, what you have is *PERFECT* as is.
The only modification I made to mine was to take two pieces of angle
iron about 3" long and put them across the two front corners of the
grate and drill holes down into the grate to bolt them down. You can
just place your keg on the grate and pull it up snugly into the
corners and know that it is centered on the grate. Also, if you ever
need to tilt the keg, you can use one of the corners to stop the keg
from sliding off the grate.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 1995 10:06:59 -0700
From: hollen@vigra.com
Subject: Re: SEEING RED?
I get the red in my ale with about a pound of 40L crystal and 1/4
pound of roasted barley. The barley contributes the red, and the
crystal gives some body and a nice brown color. The other effect of
this *small* amount of roasted is a slight nutty flavor.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)597-7080x119 Email: hollen@vigra.com
Senior Software Engineer Vigra, Inc. San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 15:00:16 EDT
From: Mike Morgan <morgan@aavid.com>
Subject: SWEET BLUEBERRY ALE
I'll be attempting to make an extract based SWEET BLUEBERRY ALE
this weekend and have the following question:
How can I increase the SWEETNESS of an ALE ? Just start with a high
O.G ? ? Say 1.070 - 1.080 ? ? ? ?
I'll be adding a small amount of Crystal Malt and Cara-Pils but want the
SWEETNESS to be similar to a blueberry pie.
How about recommending a yeast to help ?
You may direct e-mail me if you can help.
THANKS.
morgan@aavid.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
m O R G A N m O R G A N m O R G A N
m O R G A N m O R G A N
m O R G A N m O R G A N m O R G A N
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
morgan@aavid.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 12:34:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dave Riedel <RIEDEL@ios.bc.ca>
Subject: Mash tun size - summary/PVC manifolds/Kettles
Thanks to all who replied to my mash/lauter tun container questions. I
received 9-10 responses privately and via the HBD. To summarize, it seems
that most everyone agreed that a 10 gallon tun was the way to go. The concensus
on the 5 gal Gott was that it was great provided you only made low to moderate
gravity 5 gallon batches. For higher gravity brews and the convenience of
'elbow-room', a 10 gallon size is preferred. Note: one guy actually found a
7 gallon Gott!
Since I do have access to a rectangular (48 qt?) Coleman cooler, I'll probably
make a manifold for that and save myself the cost of a 10 gallon Gott. Provided
the results don't prompt my girlfriend to complain "the milk smells like malt"
on some future camping trip, this seems like the best route to take.
- ----
On the topic of manifolds, several brewers have mentioned using PVC pipe as the
tubing material. Is there any particular benefit to copper, or should I go
ahead and use PVC and save some cash for the chiller materials?
- ----
Ok, so theoretically, I have an all-grain setup emerging.... I'm not convinced
I can bring 8 gallons of wort to a decent boil with my electric stove. Anyone
have any thoughts on this? I'd prefer to use one, 8 gallon kettle so that I
can use an immersion chiller (easier to make, easier to clean); I don't want
to split the boil and do two separate chillings. If I must do a split boil,
then I think counterflow is the way to go as two siphons is fairly easy and
quick.
thanks for any and all info..
Dave Riedel
Victoria, British Columbia
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 15:40:53 EDT
From: rich.byrnes@e-mail.com
Subject: (U) Labels
THIS IS A CORPORATE DOCUMENT - As if any of you really gave a hoot
FROM: Rich Byrnes
Subject: (U) Labels
Just curious, would mercury affect the milk and coriander mixture used
for label-glue that had been blessed and sprinkled with holy water?
B-)>
Rich Byrnes
Founder of Fermental Order of Renaissance Draughtsmen
Ignore the next few lines, I usually do!
Regards,_Rich Byrnes Jr
B&AO Pre-Production Color Unit \\\|///
phone #(313)323-2613, fax #390-4520 (.) (.)
Rich.Byrnes@E-mail.com_____________________o000__(_)__000o
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 16:43:10 -0400
From: mcnallyg@in83b.npt.nuwc.navy.mil (Jeff)
Subject: Wyeast 1338 / Scotch ale questions
In recent issues of the HBD several people have discussed the speed
at which Wyeast 1338 ferments, so I thought I'd add my $0.02 worth.
I recently used this yeast to make a 5 gal. batch of Alt. The
foil pack swelled to "hard-as-a-rock" in approx. 24 hrs, and the
starter fermented out in approx. 2 days (1 qt of 1.040 wort made
with M&F DME). Lag time was about 10 hours (my usual lag) and at
2 days into the ferment the airlock was bubbling *continuously*.
The 5 gal. of Alt dropped from an OG of 1.057 down to 1.017 when I
racked it into the secondary after 4 days. After 13 days in the
secondary, the FG was 1.012 (which is lower than I expected). The
starter was fermented at 75-80F (room temp) and the Alt was
fermented at 68-72F (carboy "Fermometer" temp). BTW, the brew
turned out EXCELLENT. (If anyone wants the recipe, let me know and
I'll email it.)
Now a question for all the Scotch ale brew-masters out there:
I'm planning on brewing a Scotch ale that will hopefully clone
St. Andrews Scotch Ale (Belhaven Brewery). I have some peat smoked
malt from Hugh-Baird (sp?) but I'm not sure how much I should use
in a 5 gal. batch. Also, I'm planning on using Wyeast 1728 which
lists "Rich smoky, peaty character ideally suited for Scottish style
ales" in its flavor profile. Will using the peat smoked malt AND
the Wyeast 1728 produce a brew more like a Rauchbier than the
subtle smoky flavor of St. Andrews? Should I use one or the other
but not both together? Any help in cloning this excellent brew
would be greatly appreciated.
If I get some good private email responses and/or there seems to
be some general interest, I'll post a summary back to the HBD.
Hoppy brewing,
Jeff
==============================================================================
Geoffrey A. McNally Phone: (401) 841-7210 x152
Mechanical Engineer Fax: (401) 841-7250
Launcher Technology & Analysis Branch email: mcnallyg@in83b.npt.nuwc.navy.mil
Naval Undersea Warfare Center
Code 8322; Bldg. 1246/2
Newport, RI 02841-1708
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 14:34:57 MDT
From: Don Seidle <djseidl@cal.mobil.com>
Subject: Injection Priming : A new way to bottle prime
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 15:10:51 -0600
From: Seidle_Don/cal2_djseidl@cal.mobil.com
Subject: Injection Priming - A new way to bottle prime 10/14/95
Item Subject: Injection Priming - A new way to bottle prime
Injection Priming - A New Way to Bottle Prime
Are you pleased with the consistent and contamination-free priming you
get with batch priming but tired of doing the extra transfer just to achieve
these advantages? Did you ever feel you just might be stirring in some contam-
inants as you mix the priming into the brew? Don't you wish you could enjoy
the flexibility of bottle priming but not have to endure the inconsistencies in
carbonation levels inherent in "dry" priming? Wouldn't it be great to be able
to prime some bottles of the same batch of brew at different potential carb-
onation levels and even with different priming agents in a sanitary and consist-
ent manner? Well, now you can do it all with injection priming!
It's simple, quick and easy and you probably already have all the equip-
ment that is required:
- a hydrometer flask (or some similar tall, slender container)
- a liquid measuring device (preferably metric)
- a scale that accurately weighs up to at least 100 grams (whatever you
use for weighing hops should do just fine)
- about 40 cm.(16 in.) of plastic or glass tubing (probably the same
size as your bottling tube or perhaps the racking cane).
Now, just how do we put this all together? All it takes is a basic calc-
ulation and the knowledge of the experts who tell us that adding 4 grams of
dextrose will add one volume of carbonation per litre of brew. You will probably
use corn sugar which,for our purposes,is equivalent.
First the calculation. Assume that you wish to add one volume of carbon-
ation to 25 litres of brew and that you will be priming bottles of one litre
capacity. This simplifies the calculation; we will adjust for other bottle sizes
later. To prime one litre of brew would require 4x25=100 grams of dextrose.If we
make up a 250 ml. solution which contains 100 grams of dextrose, we would just
need to add 10 ml. of it to each bottle of brew. Now,how do we achieve the accu-
racy of batch priming with bottle priming? To do this, we determine the length
of tube that is required to inject 10 ml. of solution into each litre of brew.
The formula for the volume of a tube is V=(DxDxLxpi)/4, where D is the tube dia-
meter, L is the tube length,and pi is the well known transcendental number which
may be accurately approximated by 355/113. The volume required is 10 ml., so we
have L=40/(DxDxpi). Using 1/4 in.(0.635 cm.) tubing, we get L=31.58 cm. But
we'll probably be priming 350, 480 or 650 ml. bottles so we'll use
31.58x0.350=11.0 cm., 31.58x0.480=15.2 cm., and 31.58x0.650=20.5 cm. for the
respective bottles. Of course, it's easy to adjust for whatever size of bottle
you wish to use, just check the volume first!
Now for the practical end of it all. You can't get all of the 250 ml.
solution into the tube, so you will have to sanitize a 500 ml. solution and use
half of it( you can save the rest for next time if you're thrifty). Before you
make up your sanitized 500 ml. solution, mark the tube at 11.0, 15.2 and 20.5
cm. from the bottom end using non-toxic nail polish or permanent markers of
different colours. After sanitizing your hydrometer flask and the tube, pour
enough of the solution into the flask to nearly fill it. Dip the tube into the
flask until the level of the solution is at the appropriate mark for the size of
bottle you are priming. Put your thumb over the top end of the tube and lift the
tube out of the flask, put it into the bottle you wish to prime and release your
thumb from the tube. You have now accurately and sanitarily primed your first
bottle, repeat for each bottle, using the appropriate fill mark for each bottle.
You will occasionally have to top up the flask with solution to a depth above
the fill level for the tube.
What if you wish to vary the amount of carbonation? You will use the
pre-established marks for each bottle size and just vary the amount of dextrose
you use in the 250 ml. solution.
To add
1.00 volume of carbonation, use 100 grams in 250 ml.,
1.25 volumes of carbonation, use 125 grams in 250 ml.,
1.50 volumes of carbonation, use 150 grams in 250 ml.,
1.75 volumes of carbonation, use 175 grams in 250 ml.,
2.00 volumes of carbonation, use 200 grams in 250 ml.
If you are making up 500 ml. of solution you will,of course double the dextrose
added in order to achieve the appropriate level of carbonation,eg. to add 1.5
volumes, you would use 300 grams in a total solution of 500 ml. and use the
injection method described above.
Would you like to determine if an extra one-half volume of carbonation
might be appropriate for this brew the next time you make it? Just prime a few
bottles with an additional one-half volume equivalent and you will find out!
You might also wish to experiment with different priming agents in the same
batch. Just make up the appropriate sanitized solution and you will be able to
compare for the same batch! You can't do that very easily with batch priming,
although you could use injection priming to adjust the priming level of a few
bottles after they were batch primed but unless you keg your beer, you probably
won't use batch priming again.
Try it! If you bottle, I'm sure that for you too injection priming
will be the only way to go. And remember: Relax. Have a homebrew!
------------------------------
Date: 14 Sep 1995 17:17:00 -0400
From: "Penn, Thomas" <penn#m#_thomas@msgw.vf.mmc.com>
Subject: Infusion Mash Temp Chart/Tun Recommendation
I tried to reach Jeff Stampes by private email but failed to get through, and
I thought I'd pose my question to the digesters:
1) Where can I get a spreadsheet of water temps/volumes to add to a picnic
cooler infusion masher to raise mash temps? Anything on the web that I can
access, or send directly to me.
2) I am leaning toward the picnic cooler masher over the Stovetop mash/Zapap
type system. Any nuggets of wisdom to help me with the decision??
Going to the 3rd International New York Beer Fest this Saturday (under the
Brooklyn Bridge)-very excited about this. The Princeton Ale and Lager
Enjoyment Society (PALES) is putting on a bus trip.
Thanks!!
Tom Penn
Bordentown, NJ
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Sep 95 16:00:28 PST
From: krkoupa@ccmail2.srv.PacBell.COM
Subject: Mash Tun Percolator?
Darned if I could come up with a good explanation why the old "coffee
pot percolator approach" isn't used in the mash tun (instead of
stiring the mash). Someone jog my memory. Must be the temperature,
which is sub-boiling. Or else the bottom-to-top temperature gradient
is relatively small. But if temperature is the only reason for "why
it won't self-percolate", then why couldn't you use a false bottom
with a (sump) pump for manually recirculating wort? Why hastle with
motors and belts and stainless steel paddles (that crash into your
mash tun drain tubes)? Move the wort, not the grain.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 20:25:12 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Alex R.N. Wetmore" <alexw+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: sampling malts and finished our first beer
A couple of friends and I just finished brewing our first beer (a
Porter), which turned out great. However it has brought up some
questions about what sorts of malt impart what sorts of flavors
(some, like Chocolate malt, seem obvious, but others, like Crystal
Malt, don't seem so obvious).
I was wondering if someone could recommend some commercial beers
for sampling the characteristic flavors of each of the different
major styles of malt, especially the specialty malts like Chocolate
or Black Patent. They don't necessarily have to be great beers
(although that would be nice) if they give a good impression of
the malts.
The malts that we used were:
Crystal Malt (5oz), Chocolate Malt (12oz), Black Patent Malt (4oz)
and then 2lb of powdered Amber Malt, 1/2lb of powdered Dark Malt,
and 3.3lb of Light Malt Extract.
If anyone has any recommendations that would be great.
Thanks to everyone who helped us with the beer earlier. The first
bottle was wonderful, and it hasn't even fully aged yet. Its going
to be a hard wait for it to age another week or two. If anyone is
interested in the recipe (we based it on a kit but made a couple of
major modifications) let us know and I can email it.
thanks,
alex
(btw, please cc: to beer@phred.org because that will reach everyone
who was involved in the beer and cares about these questions)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 11:31:49 +1000
From: awalsh@world.net (Andy Walsh)
Subject: Australian Beer Competitions
Just a quick note as I don't think there will be many takers, but I
post this on the off chance that someone out there will be interested.
COMPETITION ANNOUNCEMENT...
Eastern Suburbs Brewers of Sydney, Australia are having their annual lager
competition very shortly. Entries must be received by October 14 (although
we will probably make some exceptions for late entry). There are just 3
general categories; bock, lager and pilsener, although any specific style
will be accepted, you just have to figure out which general category it fits
under. Entries are restricted to 1 per category, and 2 maximum per entrant.
This competition is generally of quite a high standard, and to the best of
my knowledge is one of the best in Australia. Anyone interested in more
details please contact me ASAP.
The first ever AUSBEER (a local beer magazine) national Australian
competition (24 classes) has just closed for entries. My apologies for not
posting on this beforehand, but I have just returned from overseas, and just
set up a new email account. How many readers out there are interested in me
posting a review of this comp after its completion (please email me yes/no)?
I'll try and get my act together next year, to provide readers with entry
information well beforehand.
***********************
Andy Walsh from Sydney
Ph. (02) 212 6333
***********************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 20:25:54 PDT
From: palmer@San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer)
Subject: Cheap cooker at an RV shop
On the subject of inexpensive burners, I may have stumbled on to something
the other day as I was browsing through an RV (rec. vehicle) shop.
I discovered a line of table top stoves/burners with the single burner
unit priced at only $32. This seems cheap to me but then I have not paid
much attention to posts on this subject lately so please excuse if this is
yesterday's news.
This very solid cast iron unit was about 13"-14" square and stood on stubby
feet about 4" off the table. It was quite substantial and had what looked
to me like a massive burner. No indication of BTU output, however. It
had a brass fitting with valve ready to attach to your pressure regulator.
Shops like this are not noted for bargin prices so perhaps some shopping
around might yield even a better price. The next best thing I had
seen was a tall upright single burner unit at my local brew shop for
$70-$80.
Just an idea...
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 23:55:50 -0400
From: GeepMaley@aol.com
Subject: Brewpubs in Cleveland/Scum skimming/extract brew coloring
Going to Cleveland next Wednesday (9/20) and wanted to know if there were any
good brewpubs in the area to sample. Private e-mail (due to the timing of it
all) is preferred.
Regarding scum skimming, are you guys doing all grains or extracts? the
reason I ask is that I brew extract and the only "scum" I tend to see is the
cap of hop particles that forms between stirs. I figure if I skim that, I
lose the bitterness due to lack of hops. This wholething is of interest to me
since I also make mead and DO skim during my honey simmer.
On to my last request. As mentioned above, I am an extract brewer and usually
do some pre-boil specialty steeping. All of my brews, including those without
specialty grains, tend to come out amber at the lightest. I boild between 45
and 60 minutes depending on my mood and what I am making and it seems to have
no effect. Any input into how to make lighter colored brews with LME? My last
batch was 5 gallons with 5 lbs light extract and 1.5 lbs honey. Color?
Yup.....amber.
Thanks,
Geep
Plano, TX
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 21:07:52 PDT
From: palmer@San-Jose.ate.slb.com (Eric Palmer)
Subject: dextrin malt and chewable beer
Tim Hawkins wrote in HBD #1827 about lack of body in his brown ale. He
speculated about whether or not letting it settle over night before
pitching might be the problem. While I can't speak to that, I do
get a little nervous about exposure to O2 over that period.
What I can contribute is a strong recommendation for dextrin malt to
create body, or "full mouth feel".
I prefer to "chew" my beer rather than simply drink it. For
my last batch of pale ale, I added just under 2 oz of this wonderful
white powder. Various recipes for British style bitter call for 1 to 2
oz. (1). You want be sure to get the 100% dextrin powder rather than
some kind of blend. I paid $3 for an 8oz bag which should last me 4-5
batches. Following an exacting scientific experiment involving emptying
my 8oz bag scoop by level scoop with a 1/8 cup plastic measuring scooper,
I concluded that 1oz of dextrin powder is equal to 1.625 1/8 level scoops.
I used 3 scoops for just under 2oz. and the body is about the same
as I remember my last draft Full Sail Amber Ale on a previous trip to Oregon.
(1) For more on dextrin malt, see:
Bryon Burch's Brewing Quality Beers, page 9 (British Bitter recipe) and
page 19 for general discussion.
To thick beer...
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 06:54:15 -0400
From: mckeeby@tcpcs3.dnet.etn.com (Steve McKeeby (Phone 616-342-3102 - Fax 616-342-3718))
Subject: Steelhead Brewing
I was in Eugene, OR. a while ago and happened to sample a weizen made by
Steelhead Brewery at a restaurant. I proceeded to seek out this micro location
and consume this beer heavily. This beer was heaven! I was told by the waiter
that they do not bottle this beer so I could not take any back to Michigan to
share with my brew brother. I would like to try to duplicate this beer since it
was the best weizen that I have personally tasted. It had a cloudy and very
yellow appearance with a great sweet/fruity taste. Has anyone in the Eugene area
had this beer? If so, could you help me out with a recipe or point me
in the right direction?
TIA,
Steve McKeeby
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 08:15:00 -0500
From: aflinsch@njebmail.attmail.com
Subject: RE:Brewing a coffee Porter - How/when/where to add the coffee
in HBD1832 jbayer@lnb_dev.abn.com asks
>I'm looking for advice from anyone who has brewed with coffee and/or
>chocolate.
>I plan to brew a oatmeal/honey/coffee porter and am trying to decide when,
>where and how to introduce the coffee.
>
>My options, as far as I can see, are:
>
>1.) Brew the coffee (strong-ish) and add to the boil.
>2.) Add the grounds to the boil in a cheesecloth and steep (how long??)
>3.) Dry hop with ground coffee
>4.) Mash it with the grain.
I have brewed with coffee a few times and have really liked the results. The
first time was kinda-sorta accidental. While brewing a fairly basic extract
bitter (and drinking a few too many homebrews) I accidentally dumped about
half of a pot of very strong coffee that was left over from breakfast (I
thought it was just some water I was pouring in to prevent a boilover).
After realizing my error I continued with the brew and didn't bother
writing down additional notes (a BIG mistake). This turned out to be one of
the best brews I have ever made. I have experimented with coffee a few
times afterwards and 1/2 to 1 10 cup pot of strong coffee per batch seems to
work out the best. Oils from the coffee seem to be carried off during
blowoff with this method.
I have also tried adding the groudn coffee in a cheesecloth bag and
"dry-coffeeing", but the bag leaked grounds and made a very large mess in
the in the fermenter, oils from the coffee also stayed in the brew with
this method.
I have never tried to use the other 2 methods (mash/steep).
Alex
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 08:41:39 -0400
From: ac051@osfn.rhilinet.gov (Eric W. Miller)
Subject: RE: RTP yeast distribution (NHS Phone #)
Ken Jucks mentioned some suppliers and addresses, including:
>Narragansett Home Brew Supply - Wakefield, RI (I could not find this phone #,
>but Seth says they keep a good and fresh supply, they sell alot)
Their number is (401) 789-3900. Horatio (the owner) tells me they
have just a couple day turnaround between the time they receive the
yeast from Seth and the time it's sold out.
Eric
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 95 07:43:42 CDT
From: SCHWAB_BRYAN@ccmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Bottling
Just wanted to let everyone out there know that I haven't forgot to
express my thanks to those who responded to my delema. Our system has
been down and since it has been back up, I have tried to post, but
something doesn't agree here.
Anyway, it was a 50/50 spilt as to transferring the BW from Grolsh to
12ozrs by siphoning or near freeze and slow pour.
I tried one of each and hopefully it will be fine come next weekend
for the contest. ( now it is up to the judges :) )
I brought the original bottle temp down to about 35 degrees and did a
VERY SLOW POUR through a long funnel to retard any splash.
On the other side, I took a long piece of tubing and siphoned from one
bottle to the other maintaining a splash free transfer, (I hope)
Thanks for the help to all those who responded.
Oh, there were acouple responses pertaining to the addition of corn
sugar, however it all came out abit technical and complicated in the
area of exact computations to overall volume etc. so all though I
appreciated the help, I ventured away from that area.
Bryan
------------------------------
Date: 15 Sep 95 10:47:01 EDT
From: Christopher.R.Vyhnal@Dartmouth.EDU (Christopher R. Vyhnal)
Subject: hops and head
Aaron Shaw writes in HBD#1832:
>>> I also heard that dry hopping or using a hop-back will improve the head
retention of the finished beer. <<<
i've found that the use of whole hops in the boil (versus pellets) and dry
hopping with whole hops both seem to improve head retention. purely empirical
observation--no experimental tests... YMMV.
chris
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 8:24:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jim Cave <CAVE@PSC.ORG>
Subject: Re: All-Grain Starter Wort
Rather than do a mini-mash, all grain, why not reserve a litre or two
of bitter wort (trub free) from your next batch of beer and freeze it. Then
just boil for 10 minutes or so prior to adding yeast for your starter. I keep
several types of frozen wort on hand, to best simulate my next batch of beer.
Jim Cave
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 10:56 EDT
From: CSS2@OAS.PSU.EDU (SPEAKER.CURTIS)
Subject: gelatin fining ?
A question for the [Borg] collective:
I recently purchased a pack of Wyeast #2278 (Czech Pils). After reading the
yeast FAQ/Zymurgy yeast issue, I realized that this yeast is a notorious poor
flocculator. It said something like "you must use finings with this yeast".
I have used polyclar to eliminate chill haze in my beer, and have used gelatin
(twice) to fine still meads, but never for beer.
Must you use the gelatin at bottling time so that you keep the yeast around
long enough to prime your beer, albeit from the bottom of the bottle? If you
fine in the secondary, I'm afraid that all of the yeast would be pulled out of
solution, leaving nothing left to provide carbonation in the bottles.
I REALLY don't want to think about using islinglass; it sound like much more
work than it's worth, and something inside me says no fish swim bladders in my
beer, thank you :-)
Any suggestions would be appreciated. TIA
Curt
css2@oas.psu.edu
------------------------------
Date: 15 Sep 1995 08:19:21 U
From: "Mike Whitehorne" <Mike.Whitehorne@qmgate.trw.com>
Subject: REQ: Small Batch Recipes
I am a fairly new home brewer who would like to brew a lot of different beers
but can't drink or give a way that much beer (I know this is heresy). Is
there a good location (published or internet) where I can find small batch
recipes, say for about 2.5 gallons?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 10:43:03 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Repitching, Gott.
> From: sprmario@netcom.com (Mario Robaina)
> Subject: Another repitching question..
> For those of you who repitch from the primary, or collect
> yeast for reuse from the primary: do you have problems with excessive
> trub (espcially after several repitchings)?
Never. I don't think I've done more than 3 or 4 primaries in a row on one
batch of yeast. I can imagine that after 5 or 6 you might get some effects.
About a year ago someone did a straw poll on HBD about whether or not they
ever had problems with off-flavors attributed to trub. No one had.
> From: ruderman@esca.com (Curiouser and curiouser...)
> Subject: Gott Cooler Questions
> o How do I get rid of the "new plastic" smell in the cooler? Unfortunately,
> there are no suggestions included with the cooler to tackle this problem.
I use a 5-gallon Gott. What I did was rinse it several times with boiling
water. This got rid of some, but not all, of that 'new plastic' smell. So,
I mashed a batch in there. It now smells like malt.
> o I am intending to get a Phil's False Bottom for the cooler, but have read
> accounts where they float when the fit is not snug.
Mine was actually a hair too large for the 5-gallon. I took a metal file and
trimmed it a bit. It still doesn't fit as well as I'd like, but it works for
me. I don't know about food grade copper.
> o Are there some plans (i.e. what parts to get at the hardware store) and
> instructions somewhere that guide one through the surgical procedure of
> replacing the Gott spigot with one better suited for homebrew purposes?
I use a rubber stopper. I think it's a Number 4, but it might be a 3 or 5.
The ones used in carboys are usually 6 or 7, one gallon jugs are number 8,
or 9 for some, and a bottle stopper is a one or a two.
Find a homebrew store with a nice variety and ask them. (It's a stopper with
a hole, and I pass a hose into my Phil's phalse bottom thing through it.)
Before the stopper, I had some kluged up piece of junk that leaked. The
stopper doesn't leak, but sometimes I push it in again just to make sure.
I also recommend you affix a Y or T join outside the Gott to the stopper, and
have a hose rising up from it. This allows you a good idea of the pressure
(and/or liquid level) inside, and it prevents you from generating suction
which can compact your grain bed. (Sometimes I'll close the top end to provide
a little suction early on.)
-R
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 09:24:00 -0700
From: Steve Dempsey <steved@ptdcs2.intel.com>
Subject: Re: HCl Sources? (Why?!?)
>From: "Dave Bradley::IC742::6-2556" <BRADLEY_DAVID_A@Lilly.com>
>Subject: HCl Sources?/Conical Fermenters
>
>
> My questions: 1. Anyone know of a good place to buy food-grade
> hydrochloric acid (dilute I'm sure)? I would like
> to use this with my sparge water
Hydrochloric? Why? I can think of few reasons to want
more Cl from any source in my beer. How about something
milder? USP grade lactic acid is readily available, works
great for pH adjustment of sparge water.
======================================================
Steve Dempsey Intel Corporation
<steved@ptdcs2.intel.com> 5200 Elam Young Pkwy
+1 503 642 0602 Hillsboro, OR 97124-6497
PTD CAD Pole: AL4-2-E2 MS: AL4-57
======================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 13:29:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Ferrulic acid
Aaron asks about isinglass:
< Will there be a significant degree
<of clarification from beer that has not been fined?
Yes. It also aids in head retention.
Don writes about weizens:
<4-vinyl guiacol, the clove phenolic, is produced as a by-product of amino
<acid metabolism. Therefore, to maximize this compound, maximize proteins
<in the wort.
Not quite. The building blocks of proteins are amino acids. What Eric
wrote is that you need to maximize the action of ferrulic acid which
is liberated at 106-114F. By mashing at lower temps, the proteins will
be reduced in more elementary amino acids and not as many will survive
into the wort.
>From my second column in Brewing Techniques:
Beta glucans have an affect on the
wort viscosity, higher levels left intact may lead to more viscous
wort and subsequently more difficult lauters. In general, higher
modified malt will have lower levels of beta glucans. Wheat malt,
in particular, has high levels of gums and for this reason, a low
temperature rest is almost mandatory when mashing wheat. Also, since
ferrulic acid is liberated at 111F (44C), a rest in this range is most
beneficial for wheat beers. Ferrulic acid is bound to pentosanes in
grains with ester bonds and since beta glucanase degrades both beta
glucans and pentosanes, this rest will liberate free ferrulic acid.
The importance of free ferrulic acid in wheat beers is that it is
decarboxylized into 4-vinyl guiacol during fermentation [7], which
contributes to their characteristic phenolic flavor.
<Warner
<suggests pitching at relatively high temps, say 75-80F (this is counter
<to the prevailing notion argued by Jim Busch, et al., that pitching temps
<should be lower, and is true for most styles except maybe weizen), and
<lower temp to the 60-65F range for the primary fermentation within 24
I specifically indicated that esters and fusel alcohols are controlled
via temps, it is most true that if one wants increased esters that higher
temps will assist this.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 16:18 PDT
From: howe@shemp.appmag.com (Aubrey Howe)
Subject: GABF (tm) anyone?
Greetings.
I was just sending out a feeler as to how many of us out there are
going to the Great American Beer Fest (tm) this year. If you are
going, how 'bout meeting between events on Saturday? Saturday afternoon
is the members-only tasting before the last evening of the event. We
could tip a few glasses of water to cleanse the pallette, or something!
This should probably be a private e-mail reply situation, even
though some frown on that... I'll keep a list of people interested,
and send out something to them re: where, etc. to keep the digest
pure.
Cheers, and I'll see ya there!
--Aubrey Howe, III
howe@appmag.com
Santa Barbara, Ca
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 16:19 PDT
From: howe@shemp.appmag.com (Aubrey Howe)
Subject: Hopback/HSA frustrations
scarin@primenet.com (Larry Scaringelli) wrote, in reply to me:
>Aubrey Howe howe@shemp.appmag.com wrote
>
>Hopback: (paraphrased) he strains his still hot wort through his
>lauter tun after cleaning the tun and lets it flow through to his
>boiling kettle to be chilled.
>
>Q: The double siphoning I see here of hot wort looks like an engraved
>invitation for HSA. Asking because besides from that problem it seems
>like a good way to strain out hops in wort. In addition isn't a
>hopback a way to strain the wort through fresh hops if so then isn't
>this just an elaborate strainer and not a hop back.
>
>No flame intended just asking.
No Flame taken...YET!!! :-).
I posted the above question re: hopback -vs- straining the hops out
of beer a few months back, and never heard from anyone. so: I pose it
again, even though I think you answered it. Is a Hop-back just an
elaborate strainer? From what you are saying, a Hop-back is adding
hops to a strainer, then straining with it, in which case I will start
doing that now; being a hop-head, I love finishing-hops, and this
would ensure the really good finish that I like! Thanks for the tip!
;)
Also: one comment regarding HSA/double siphoning: I generally do
not syphon per se, I pour it while using THICK pot holders.
I then cover both the lauter tun-cum-hop strainer-cum-
hopback and the brewpot where the still hot wort is being chilled.
This is to keep any BIG bugs out. Should I be worrying about HSA? Or
is it something only associated with syphoning? Am I getting even
MORE HSA than with syphoning? Obviously, I had not
even thought about that problem. Can you post again re: this? I wanna
know more.
Sorry to aid in reviving the old, long-thought-dead thread of HSA...
The last time I saw it, I page-downed through it.
Cheers.
--Aubrey Howe, III
howe@appmag.com
Santa Barbara, Ca.
------------------------------
Date: 15 Sep 95 14:17:10 EDT
From: Don Rudolph <DON@nova.mhs.compuserve.com>
Subject: <None>
In HBD #1832 I wrote that Eric Warner suggested to pitch yeast at high
temps.
WRONG. He, in fact, suggests pitching at LOW temps (mid-50's) and
fermenting in the low-to-mid 60's. My apologies.
Don Rudolph
Seattle, WA
don@nova.mhs.compuserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 13:59:34 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Re: 3 monts
Andy Kligerman e-mailed me :
> I love Tres Monts and would like your recipe for the clone.
Dig. I'll go ahead and Cc: it to the digest in case other people want it.
This is working from memory, so I may be off on a couple finer points. Also,
this was one of my first all-grain batches, so my extraction might have been
overly low.
10 lbs. DeWolf-Cosyns Pilsner malt
1 lb. US. 2-row Vienna malt
1 lb. DeWolf-Cosyns Biscuit malt (or whatever their toasted is called)
I forget the mash schedule, but I know there was a protein rest at around 133
or 135, and the main mash was kept in the low 150's as best I can. WHen I
made this, it was before I Gott my got cooler, so I mashed in sort of a
stove-top double-boiler thing. (A 4 gallon pot floating in an 8 gallon pot.)
Temperature control was difficult. I mashed for a long time, probably two
hours, and it was a hellaciously thick mash. I have no idea if this
contributed or detracted from the flavor. The grains on the outer sides and
bottom of the container ended up getting slightly toasted and sticky. This
probably contributed something, some caramel and melanoidins or whatnot. It
was a very thick mash, almost dry.
Boiling hops were pellets. 2/3 oz of Cascade and 2/3 oz of Bullion, because
that's what I had. 60 minute boil. Finishing hops were US Tettnang plugs,
1/2 oz at 15 mins before, 1/2 oz. at 5 mins before, 1/2 oz. at end of boil.
I used Wyeast's Belgian Ale yeast. I don't recall having used a starter, it
would be in my notes at home if I did. (What part of my home, I wish I knew.)
Anyway (oh! now I remember. In the basement, in the wooden thing. happy
day.) Where was I? Oh, yeah, this was fermented in the summer in Nashville
TN. It was probably 85 F indoors.
This was, at the time, the lightest colored beer I had made, probably in the
3-8 L range. It was delicious. I worry that some of my luck with it was
serendipitous. (sp?) Jake disagreed, but I felt this was one of the two or
three best batches I had ever made. (At the time, it was clearly the best.)
I'm going to make it again, with lower ferm. temps, and a starter batch. I'll
probably toast some of the grains in a little water in a saucepan on the
stovetop to simulate the original accident in the mash tun. I'll probably use
diff't boiling hops, depending on what I have.
I'm not sure how close this is to Trois Monts or Tres Monts or however you
spell that, but it was a darn fine brew. I was pretty proud to have gotten
into the general ballpark with it, and I think this recipe should get others
there, too, maybe. If you brew this, let me know. I am convinced that using
DeWolf-Cosyns malt is essntial, and that the specialties are a good idea.
There's a certain "crispness" to the belgian grains that I really enjoy, and
that I notice in 3Monts and other regional beers.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 16:26:30 -0400
From: genitom@nyslgti.gen.ny.us (Michael Genito)
Subject: Dean Miller's forgotten beer
Dean Miller recalls a forgotten bottle of beer story in HBD 1830:
>I brewed an IPA in the beginning of '94..........This past Sunday, 9/10/95, I
>>was looking through this same friend's refigerator
>and, lo and behold, what should I find but a bottle of this same batch of IPA.
>
>I thought to myself, myself.. this is probably septic fodder, but I opened it
>and tried it. It was the best bottle of IPA I have ever had. It was smooth,
>no harsh edges, and had a mellow character to it that I would not ever have
>believed.
Ditto. I once made a cream ale that tasted mediocre at up to 2 months. I
forgot about it and it sat in the basement until I rediscovered it a year
later. It turned out to be one of my best brews ever.
To the newbies out there - dont throw the ugly ducklings away, they often
turn out to be late bloomers.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1833, 09/16/95
*************************************
-------
