Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #1812
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/08/19 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1812 Sat 19 August 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Wort Dilution Simplicity Dumbfounds Reader ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
Re: Re: Mash-out and extract efficiency (Steve Alexander)
Re: Alcoholic Lemonade (Mike Davis)
Dilution even simpler / Alc. lemonade (Dave Draper)
Brewpub in New Orleans (Rolland Everitt)
Alcoholic lemonade (Sylverre Polhemus)
HUNTER AIRSTAT PARTS ("ED KENDALL 252-3436")
Motorizing a Maltmill (Bill Rucker)
Re: BrewPubs in ... & Trivia (Shawn Steele)
next iodophor question ("Fr. Bradley A.M. Barber")
Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1809 (August 16, 1995) (GeepMaley)
converting kegs, pre chiller (Larry Scaringelli)
Hunter airstat diodes/Stainless fermenter (John Glaser)
trip report - part 2 (Algis R Korzonas)
Caramel flavors - summary (Dave Fletcher)
RE: SG corrections (the easy way) - corrected ("ath@merkur.sds.no")
Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1808 (August 15, 1995) (Stephbrown)
Brewpub Requests (harry)
Will a hunter work for me? (EJ McGowan/CAM/Lotus)
Chillers (Ed Hitchcock)
obsessing (Spencer W Thomas)
Wort Chiller Comparisons (Spencer W Thomas)
RE HBD advice (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
sources (Bill Johns)
more temps (Jim Busch)
Hunter Air Stat Summary (rone)
Amazing Amazonion Floating Brewery (CHARLIE SCANDRETT)
british pale malt, homegrown hops (Bryan L. Gros)
New Micro in Michigan, Big Buck Brewery (Chris Cooper)
******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
*
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have
ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service,
send an e-mail message to ftpmail@gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
"help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 13:09:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR@afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: Wort Dilution Simplicity Dumbfounds Reader
What was obvious to John in his post yesterday was not at all to me.
He made the calculation so simple that I couldn't see why it worked.
Sometimes I feel like the Beavis of the brewing world. It did work,
or course, and inquiring (if simple) minds wanted to know. I started with:
final wort weight = original wort weight + added water weight
then express this in terms of gravities and volumes instead of weights:
final wort weight = d2v2 [final dens * final vol]
original wort weight = d1v1 [orig dens * orig vol]
added water weight = (1)(v2 - v1) [dens of water = 1, added vol is v2
- v1]
d2v2 = d1v1 + (1)(v2 - v1), OR simply d2v2 = d1v1 + v2 - v1 (1)
Now, collect like terms: d2v2 - v2 = d1v1 - v1 and factor
v2(d2 - 1) = v1(d1 - 1) (2)
Since the gravities dn can be expressed in points pn = 1000(dn - 1),
replace the "dn - 1" with dn - 1 = pn/1000 in Eqn (2) above:
v2(p2/1000) = v1(p1/1000) (3)
Multiply both sides by 1000 to get v2p2 = v1p1 (4)
*This* should be an easy one to remember! Rearranging to comply with
the problem as first stated (how much water do I add to get gravity p2?):
v2 = v1p1/p2 for the final volume, or for the amount to ADD,
v2 - v1 = v1(p1/p2) - v1 = v1(p1/p2 - 1), that is,
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
vol to add = (orig vol)*(orig points/final points - 1) (5)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Which is exactly what John already said--he just didn't make it sufficiently
complicated to earn maximum AI Robot "HBD Worthiness Factor" points. I earn
negative points for repeating it, however. I know I can't declare the
thread
dead, but I'm sure everyone agrees we now have it bleeding rather badly!
KRF Colorado Springs
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:15:24 -0400
From: Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Mash-out and extract efficiency
In Homebrew Digest #1809 (August 16, 1995) Dan Sherman writes:
>John ?Lastname? told how his extract efficiency skyrocketed when he
>started doing a mash-out.
>
>Though a little personal experience and several conversations with other
>brewers, I have found the same thing. It seems that grain bed
>temperature has a definite effect on lautering efficiency. Even the
>simple act of covering the lauter tun while sparging helps to keep the
>grain bed temp. up and increases the amount of sugar that is dissolved
>into the sparge water.
One article posted either here or in rec.craft.brewing from a
well respected source (I think it was Geo.Fix, maybe Al Korzonas(sp?))
earlier this year discussed the possibility of performing cold sparges
and still getting excellent extraction efficiency. You may be losing
points in the sparge but I have some doubt that it is from the
viscosity difference of wort between say 158F and 168F.
When I switched to all-grain brewing early this year, I consistantly
experienced mediocre extraction efficiencies of 77% to 84% and have
always done a mash-out. I have tried many technique and apparatus
changes and just recently have gotten my efficiency up. The
efficiencies on the last four batches were 92%, 94%, 93%, 97% for an
American ale, dry stout, Wit and an IPA resp'y. These represent very
different malts and grains, mash schedules and two different sparge
devices. The consistant factor in these cases is that I crush the malt
& raw grain finer than the so called textbook crush. I use
Schmidlings adjustable maltmill(tm) set on the finest setting. This
still leaves many husks intact but breaks most grain bodies into many
parts. I've had no unsual difficulties sparging this fine crushed malt
using either slotted 1/2" copper tubing, or a copper screen wrapped
over the end of a tube. I also increased my sparge time from around
45' to 80'-120' !
So I guess my suggestion regarding efficiency is: crush fine, sparge long.
Steve Alexander
stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 15:45:25 EDT
From: Mike Davis <mdavis@BayNetworks.com>
Subject: Re: Alcoholic Lemonade
[ John Girard, masquerading as Mario Robaina, asks about alcoholic
lemonade and how to make it.]
What I've had in the past is called Radler in Germany. It's a mixture
of Beer and Lemonade. There's a similar thing I had in London called
shandy, but I've only had poor ones in cans. I made some myself
before I became a brewer. If I remember, it was about 2/3 beer and
1/3 lemonade. I'd think you would want to use a lighter beer in the
mix, and I prefer real lemonade to a powder, though I'm as lazy as the
next guy.
Dunno about brewing it directly. Any suggestions?
- --mad (who's going to try IPA + lemonade Radler when he gets home)
Mike Davis == mdavis@pobox.wellfleet.com == +1 508 436 8016
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 07:30:16 +1000
From: david.draper@mq.edu.au (Dave Draper)
Subject: Dilution even simpler / Alc. lemonade
Dear Friends, like John Palmer, I too have been highly bemused by the level
of detail brought to bear on the question of calculating dilution. In
#1810, John outlined a simple procedure and asked: "What could be simpler?"
Well John, the answer is this: the ratio of the volumes involved (pre- and
post-dilution or -concentration) gives you the factor by which to multiply
the gravity, *in gravity points*, and the ratio of the gravity points gives
the factor by which to multiply the volume. No need even to calculate the
product of volume and gravity points (e.g. the 7 gallons of 42 ppg = 294
John cited). Several issues ago, someone (I'm sorry I did not record your
name) posted just this but it seems to have been overwhelmed by the more
elaborate approaches--so let's see it again:
So we have 30 litres of 1.042 after sparging and know we will end up with 23
litres after boiling. We know the gravity will go *up* because we are
concentrating, so we make sure to arrange the volumes so that the ratio is
greater than one, so that when we use it to multiply the gravity, the result
will be higher than what we started with. So 30/20 = 1.5; 1.5 times 42 =
63; so we know that our 23 L will have a gravity of 1.063.
So we have 3 gallons of a 1.070 wort and want to dilute it to a new gravity
of 1.050. How much water to add? We know the volume will go up, so we
arrange the gravity point ratio for >1, namely 70/50 = 1.4. 1.4 * 3 = 4.2,
so the diluted volume will have to be 4.2 gal, meaning that we need to add
1.2 gallons to our original 3.
So we have 13 L of 1.060 wort, and we accidentally pour 10 L of water in.
The gravity has to go down, so the relevant volume ratio is 13/(13+10) or
13/23 = 0.565. 0.565 * 60 = 34 so our beer is ruined (since we were trying
to make a bock) at a gravity of 1.034.
Doesn't even matter what volume units you use, SI or SCBE (screwed-up
British engineering) (thanks for the fat pitch Kirk, sorry I couldn't do any
better than a piddle up the middle).
*****
John Girard (through sprmario@netcom.com) asked about the alcoholic lemonade
made here in Sydney. It's called Two Dogs, and is made at the Lord Nelson
brewpub. Our club had a meeting there and post-meeting tour of the brewery,
and as I recall the procedure for Two Dogs is very simple--lemon juice,
heaps of sugar, and Whitbread ale yeast. Not to my taste, to be honest. If
you want to try such a thing, probably a frozen lemonade canister is a good
starting point rather than powdered stuff like Country Time (haven't been in
the US for awhile, don't remember if CT is frozen now too). Make a small
batch, add some sugar (I really have no idea at what rate, but you can just
measure the gravity till you get a reasonable OG), boil for a few minutes to
kill the Alien Lifeforms, chill, and pitch a rehydrated pack of Whitbread.
Once you get something you like you can scale up to a larger batch, maybe
use a liquid yeast, etc. Good luck.
Cheers, Dave in Sydney
"I can't be bought for a mere $3.50." ---Jeff Renner
- ---
***************************************************************************
David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia
Email: david.draper@mq.edu.au Home page: http://www.ocs.mq.edu.au/~ddraper
...I'm not from here, I just live here...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 17:44:18 -0400
From: af509@osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt)
Subject: Brewpub in New Orleans
When in the French Quarter, be sure to try the Crescent City
Brewhouse on Decatur St. (I have no interest in the place - I just
like it). I try to go there whenever I travel to N'awlins on
business. They have a trademark "Red Stallion" brew that is
quite good. They are also serving a very hazy weizen just now.
The food is outrageous too!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 18:33:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Sylverre Polhemus <sylverre@tyche.lib.utexas.edu>
Subject: Alcoholic lemonade
John Girard (through sprmario@netcom.com) asked about high-alcohol,
effervescent, alcoholic lemonades. Information comes, but first, one
question: what does Country Time have to do with lemonade? Last I
chescked, there were no lemons in those cans.
Check the cat's meow files: there's a pretty good lemon cider recipe,
and a recipe named something like Yuppie Guppie's Alcoholic Lemonade,
which might be what you're looking for. Also, look under the historical
drinks -- there's a recipe for lemon beer that's kind of fun.
If you follow the recipe for lemon beer, you end up with a very low
alcohol, highly fizzy drink. If you leave it alone for a week or so,
you end up with a somewhat fizzy, higher alcohol potable. If, however,
you let it sit for about two weeks, prime it, and bottle it, you end up
with an effervescent, moderately high-alcohol (sorry, no % available at
present), quite lovely alcoholic lemonade.
It also makes a fantastic gin-and-lemon-and-tonic type concoction, if
you add juniper berries after letting it ferment for a week.
Enjoy!
He was mead in the yeast, drunk in the eye -- altogether a sot for sore
wines. Sylverre@tyche.lib.utexas.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 09:22:39 JST
From: "ED KENDALL 252-3436" <C375@gollum.sas.mrms.navy.mil>
Subject: HUNTER AIRSTAT PARTS
Lee Menegoni asked for source info for a 1N5359B zener diode to
repair a Hunter Airstat. It is listed in Newark Electronics Catalog
#112 without a price. They have brances all over the country but the
head office is in Chicago. (312) 784-5100. No 800 Number listed.
Hope this helps, Ed Kendalltest test test
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 20:29:23 EDT
From: brewzer@peanut.mv.com (Bill Rucker)
Subject: Motorizing a Maltmill
For all the gadget types,
Has anyone tried motorizing a Maltmill? I received one as a gift
and
would like to have some ideas on how to do this.
Private Email is fine or post here.
Cheers,
Bill
Homebrew is beer in it's purest form! Have another!
Bill Rucker brewzer@peanut.mv.com
ruckewg@naesco.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 18:01:11 -0600
From: Shawn Steele <shawn@aob.org>
Subject: Re: BrewPubs in ... & Trivia
> Going to sit on the beach in South Carolina (Myrtle Beach) September
> 1-7. I get bored on the beach quickly (my wifes turn to chose the
> vacation you see). Any brewpubs in Myrtle Beach (or surrounding
> area) to keep me occupied and happy!?
We have brewpubs listed on our web site at http://www.aob.org/aob
Its still weak on some of the countries ('cept for the U.S. & Canada)
and if anyone out there knows many breweries in other countries, I'd
like the updates.
P.S. I too have been looking for beer trivia questions. If anyone has
any suggestions, please let me know by e-mail (shawn@aob.org). The
results of my trivia search will end up on the web site (& maybe at
info@aob.org as well.)
Thanks,
- shawn
Shawn Steele
Information Systems Administrator
Association of Brewers (303) 447-0816 x 118 (voice)
736 Pearl Street (303) 447-2825 (fax)
PO Box 1679 shawn@aob.org (e-mail)
Boulder, CO 80306-1679 info@aob.org (aob info)
U.S.A. http://www.aob.org/aob (web)
Note: When replying to my messages, please include enough of my
message so that I know what you're replying to! :-)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 21:10:55 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Fr. Bradley A.M. Barber" <bbarber@tenet.edu>
Subject: next iodophor question
Thanks to so many who have replied to my feeble questions. You certainly
have helped.
Next question. This evening, I placed one tablespoon of iodophor in my
*brand new* keg (splurged). I dribbled some on the throw-run in front of
the sink. After I gathered-up the rug, I filled the keg with cold water,
sealed it and left it while I had supper. Then, half an hour or so
later, I returned, inverted the keg and left it for ten minutes or so.
Came back and drained it.
Some brown "drips", a dozen or so, have formed on the inside bottom of
the keg. The sides are clean. Some of the drips seem to originate at
the ss weld where the bottom is connected. I tried rinsing with water,
scrubbed a little with my carboy brush. Nothing. Still there.
I had intended to keg my stout this eve. What is this stuff?. Is it safe
to keg? I knew that iodine would stain, but stainless steel?
TIA
Fr. Bradley A.M. Barber
Pastoral Institute
Diocese of Corpus Christi
1200 Lantana
Corpus Christi, TX 78407-1112
E-Mail: bbarber@tenet.edu
ppwf22a@prodigy.com
Telephone: (512) 289-5030
Fax: (512) 289-1867
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 22:13:50 -0400
From: GeepMaley@aol.com
Subject: Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1809 (August 16, 1995)
In a message dated 95-08-16 04:03:05 EDT, you write:
In #1809 David Wright wrote:
>If you siphoning from a carbouy, get a blow off cap and insert a
>racking cane through the large diameter spout. Attach tubing to the
>top of the racking cane and put the cap onto the carbouy. Run the
>tubing to the new vessel. Here is the easy part but some of the
>infection paronoids will cringe. With you mouth blow into the unused
>spout on the cap. No pump, no mess, very little time. You only have
>to blow for about 2-3 seconds and you have a great siphon going. I
>have yet to have any contaminated brews
Another way to avoid possible contamination is to "gargle" with 151 proof rum
to kill all the nasties in your mouth before blowing. I have done this in the
past with no adverse effects except that my mouth feels like cotton after I
spit the booze out. Guess I could swallow it, but I'd still get cotton mouth.
Geep
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 19:34:55 -0700
From: scarin@primenet.com (Larry Scaringelli)
Subject: converting kegs, pre chiller
First I would like to thank you all for the wealth of information in
the HBD. I have been receiving the HBD since May and have learned more from
the collective wisdom then any other source, as well as great gadget ideas.
I have recently come across two kegs that I would like to convert to start
to build a tier system for the eventual plunge into all grain brewing. I am
concerned as to whether they are SS or not. They are from that lovely mega
brewer in Colorado( No I didn't drink the swill within they were given to
me). If any one has any first hand knowledge or a way to check I would
appreciate a reply. E-mail fine.
In addition living in Arizona my tap water at times is very warm probably in
the 80 degree plus range especially in the summer. I was trying to come up
with way to use a chiller that would work in the heat and I came up with the
following idea. If it has been presented before I apologize but I haven't
seen it. My thought was to run copper tube in a tight spiral through a 1 to
1 1/2 foot piece of 2" PVC pipe cap both ends with holes drilled for the
copper tube and holes drilled into the top of the pvc. attach quick
connects to the ends of the copper tube on bothe sides one male one female.
Meanwhile in the inlet line of the chiller hose cut it and install a quick
disconnect of the same type and size as on the "pre-chiller". Fill the
prechiller with water and freeze. Once you have acheived the initial rapid
tempature drop to the 90 degree range stop the water and install the
"pre-chiller" with the disconnects. Restart the water flow. The
"pre-chiller" should cool the tap water as it flows through and allow you to
continue to chill the wort to pitching tempatures.
All of the above is theory with no sound scientific backing or
feasibilitry studies. It is based on my common sense or lack therof and
what I have read in the HBD. Any and all feedback appreciated Email is fine
I will post summary and results if tried. TIA for feedback.
Larry
_______________________________________________________________
Nothing can tear you apart
If you keep livin' straight from the heart
Though you know that you're gonna hurt some
The magic will come J.Buffett
scarin@primenet.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 20:52:51 -0700
From: John Glaser <glaser@widlar.ece.arizona.edu>
Subject: Hunter airstat diodes/Stainless fermenter
Hunter Airstat Diodes:
Lee spoke about replacing the 24V, 5W zener diode in the Hunter Airstat. *If*
this diode is used simply for voltage regulation (and it probably is), try
replacing it with 2 12V, 3W zeners in series. You will effectively have a
24V, 6W (approximately) Zener by doing this. I have not tried this on a Hunter
Airstat, I do not guaruntee anything at all. (I have used this method
in other circuits successfully). If the above is not clear, you shouldn't try
this without adult supervision. Otherwise, hack away.
DO NOT use two 24V, 3W diodes in parallel. If they are not well matched, the
lower voltage one will blow. If it blows open, the second one will follow
shortly.
Stainless steel fermenters:
If you are expanding your batch size, consider using 10 gallon soda kegs as
fermenters. I found one at a local junk yard for $20 in good shape. They
arethe same height as standard soda kegs, but have a 12" diameter. I think
St. Pats has them for $45. Works great, has handles, won't shatter, easy to
clean (you can get your hand in it or at least I can). I had planned to
use a cut-off keg as an open fermenter, but I couldn't put it in my fridge and
still shut the door. I can fit this in my fridge, along with one 5 gallon
carboy or two 5 gallon soda kegs.
John Glaser
glaser@ece.arizona.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 17:56:20 CDT
From: korz@pubs.ih.att.com (Algis R Korzonas)
Subject: trip report - part 2
Here's part 2 of my Germany-Belgium trip report.
* Hanssens, I feel, makes the best Kriek. Their Geuze is variable, from
good to excellent. One bottle I had tasted very oily/solventy/caprillic.
While this can be part of the style, I thought the levels were excessive.
No year on the cork, so it was impossible to tell how old it was. Another
bottle at a different cafe was much better.
* I was not happy with the Girardin Geuze or Lambik I tasted. Neither were
as good as the Cantillon, 3 Fonteinen or Hanssens. However, just as with
the first bottle of Hanssens I had, I would have to taste several other
batches to say Girardin didn't belong in the same league as the other three.
* Petrus is a very good Oud Bruin. Good Old Bruins (Flanders Browns) are hard
to find. There are a lot of overly-sweet beers, with no sourness, calling
themselves Oud Bruins -- beware.
* I asked at Rodenbach if they consider their beer a "Red Beer" or an "Oud
Bruin." They said it is a "Oud Bruin." Given that, I'd say shoot for
something between Rodenbach Grand Cru, Liefmans Goudenband (the old recipe)
and Petrus when trying to brew an Flanders Brown Ale.
* Rochefort 10 is excellent -- IMO one of the three best Trappist beers
(along with Orval and Westvleteren Abt). Rochefort 8 is also very good,
has a similar flavour as the 10 and is far more quaffable.
* You can get beers like Rochefort 10, Orval and Cantillon at grocery stores.
750ml of Cantillon Gueuze is BF 100 (about $3.25), a bottle of Orval will
set you back BF 43 (about $1.40).
* On the, "this is not lambik" front: you can buy Belle Vue Kriek in cans.
* I tasted the Celis White in Brugge. I feel that it is not as good as the
Celis White brewed in Austin. It didn't have as much of the yeast character.
It is not surprising that it would be made from a different recipe there
(as if Pierre was going to release his trade secrets). Incidentally,
Hoegaarden Wit, along with Stella Artois and Jupilier are the most widely
available beers in Belgium (Belle Vue Kriek is up there also).
* At 't Brugs Beertje, Jan and I compared 9-year-old and a current bottle
of Verboden Vrucht: no comparison. The night before, I ordered my wife
Karen a bottle of the current stuff, expecting something like the Pierre
Celis version. She hated it and I even had trouble finishing it.
Obviously, Interbrew has ruined another great beer. The old beer was an
explosion of fruit. The current smells and tastes more like a strong
industrial American lager than anything else -- a Belgian Mickey's Malt
Liquor if you will.
* Jan ('t Brugs Beertje) rents out the Boon brewery one day per year and
makes a 4,000 or 5,000 liter batch of beer. He then ages it four years
before serving. Every year it is a different recipe and the kegs last only
a few weeks when he puts in on sale. I tasted the beer served this year
(he puts a small percentage in bottles) and it was a pale, citrusy, wheat
beer made with sloeberries. Very fruity, but did not taste like a typical
fruit beer.
* Fresh Duvel is not as good as old Duvel. We're actually lucky to get it
"pre-aged." Some cafes pre-age Duvel. Fresh, it smells solventy and the
alcohol burns the throat. Even one year of aging turns it to silk.
* The last two beers I drank in Belgium (I had planned to bring them home,
but our luggage already weighed 390 pounds and that was after I airfreighted
home 44 pounds of glassware) were scottish ales! Gordons Scotch Ale was
outstanding: a peaty nose, much lighter than McEwans and much less sweet.
It was deceptively strong, however. Highland Fine Whiskey Malt Beer (brewed
by Henninger Brewery in Germany and packaged in a can!) was good: slightly
smoky nose, more smoky in the palate, rather lager-like (duh!) perhaps a
cross between a rauchbier and a scottish ale. Probably the best beer I've
tasted from a can.
* 173 beers critically tasted (if you don't count the Old Dominion Ale during
our layover in Dulles), visited nearly a dozen small- to medium-sized
breweries, performed countless hours of people-watching in numerous
biergartens and cafes, ranched more than 30 (possibly different) yeasts,
and saw some cool old architecture (some as old as Roman times). There's
still smoke rising from my Visa card... I'd call it a successful journey.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 05:00:00 GMT
From: fletch@poohs.com (Dave Fletcher)
Subject: Caramel flavors - summary
In HBD#1800 I posted a message concerning a caramel flavor that seems to be a
regular attribute of my beers, and asked the collective what might cause this.
As luck would have it, there was a fairly wide submission of opinions, and so
it is difficult for a "novice" like myself to venture much from my original
state of ignorance concerning same. Here is a rundown of the responses I
received.
29% Favored the idea that high gravity boils as the most likely cause.
21% Favored the idea that crystal malt is the likely culprit.
7% Considered a long boil as the most probably the reason for caramel
flavors.
7% Miscellaneous reasons were stated for caramel flavors including
oxidation of the wort, yeast, and extracts which contain significant
caramels.
36% Had the same or similar problem and wanted information. Perhaps the
tried and true experts could lend a hand here and enter into a
discussion on this topic with a bit more detail. I know I would
appreciated it, and my relatively small sample would indicate there are
others who would as well.
Thanks to all who responded.
fletch@poohs.com
- ---
* KWQ/2 1.2i *
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 11:21:05 +0000
From: "ath@merkur.sds.no" <ath@merkur.sds.no>
Subject: RE: SG corrections (the easy way) - corrected
Ops, I made a little shortcut in my formula.
Corrections follows.
>This is not accurate but should be sufficient for homebrewing as the
>hydrometer readings is a bigger source of errors than this formula.
>(my opinion)
>Here is what I use :
>VOL = volum of wort.
>SG = starting gravity.
>DG = desired gravity.
>Water to add = [VOL * (SG - 1000)] / (DG - 1000) - VOL
When I see gravity of x.yyy I always look at it as xyyy
So here is my correction:
Water to add = [VOL * (SG*1000 - 1000)] / (DG*1000 - 1000) - VOL
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 06:17:06 -0400
From: Stephbrown@aol.com
Subject: Re: #1(2) Homebrew Digest #1808 (August 15, 1995)
Dave Boe says:
Steve you're such a pessimist<g>. Good beer isn't anything *new*, Europeans
have been drinking good beer long before anybody in this country even knew
what a microbrewery was. If, as you say, the big guys turn their micros into
smaller versions of the parent Swill Factories then I predict that *new*
Micros will pop up to fill the void. Once beer drinkers taste really good
beer there's no going back to that other swill.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well, it's bloody good to know that there are some optimists out there. I've
wondered, now and again, if this mightn't be true, that Americans would
develope a taste for good beer, and never settle for the budweisers again.
But I'm not convinced of it. If they do, let's raise a glass to our fine
country. In the meanwhile, I'm not taking any chances - I'm going to keep on
brewing.
Stephen Brown
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 08:33:46 -0400
From: hbush@phoenix.Princeton.EDU (harry)
Subject: Brewpub Requests
I'm going to friggin' Venus next week. Can anyone recommend any
Brewpubs there? Jeez, there should be a Brewpub Request Digest or
something.
Sorry, it must be my time of month.
harry
(new e-mail address, same old jerk!)
------------------------------
Date: 18 Aug 95 9:13:29 EDT
From: EJ McGowan/CAM/Lotus <EJ_McGowan/CAM/Lotus.LOTUS@crd.lotus.com>
Subject: Will a hunter work for me?
I have inherited a refrigerator that seems to stay on all the time. After
using it for the first time last week, I realized that the thermostat inside
doesn't work at all and the unit behaves more like a freezer. My question is
when people are talking about various hunter, honeywell, and other
manufacturer's products, do you need to replace the internal thermostat or do
these work by turning the unit on and off. I'm not opposed to opening up the
back and trying to replace the internal thermostat, but one that requires no
real work would be better assuming that my refrigerator now just has two
states, on and off.
Personal email is fine. TIA
ej_mcgowan@crd.lotus.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 10:40:03 -0300 (ADT)
From: Ed Hitchcock <ehitchcock@sparc.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: Chillers
In response to Chas' question about positioning of immersion
chillers: There is a significant diference between immersion chiller
dynamics and counterflow chiiler dynamics, mainly flow. If you stick an
immersion chiller in the cold part of the kettle, ie the bottom, you get
stratification. You will chill the cold part colder, while the hot part
sits happily on top, staying hot.
As for stirring, break, settling, and all the other problems
associated with chillers, I would once again like to mention the
planispiral chiller. Mine is 25' of 1/4" od copper tubing formed into a
flat spiral, like an electric stove element. It is designed so that it
lies about 1/4-1/2" below the surface of the hot wort. No need to stir,
since cooling the top layer generates convection. I whirlpool the wort
after the boil, let it settle for 10 min. or so, put in the chiller, let
it sanitize for a few minutes, put on the lid and turn on the water. 20
minutes later, cold wort, no stirring, break settled, nice tight cone of
spent hops in the centre of the kettle.
I will confess that it is not perfect. Eamonn managed to get a
temperature inversion somehow so he had a cold layer on top and a hot
layer on bottom. Never happened to me, though.
ed
----------------
ehitchcock@sparc.uccb.ns.ca
the Pick & Fossil Picobrewery
Because there's more to life than just coffee
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:46:41 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: obsessing
There's been a lot of obsessing here recently about pitching
temperatures, HSA, and the like. It's really not necessary! If your
goal is to make *beer you like to drink*, and if your techniques make
*beer you like to drink*, then *DON'T WORRY!*. Keep it up, and more
power to you!
If, on the other hand, you're wondering why your beer
isn't as good as you'd like it to be, or if your goal is to be AHA
Homebrewer of the Year (tm?), then you can obsess over minor changes
in your technique.
Really, folks (oops, almost said "guys", there), mostly we're talking
about the difference between *good* beer and *great* beer.
=S
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 13:45:48 -0400
From: Spencer W Thomas <spencer@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: Wort Chiller Comparisons
A group of us will be performing an experimental comparison of wort
chillers. What measurements / numbers / features / misfeatures would
YOU like to know about commercially available wort chillers? What
comparisons would YOU make between chillers?
Act now! This is your chance to be involved in the design of the
experiment! This offer will not be repeated! Please respond by e-mail.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI (spencer@umich.edu)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 10:40:09 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna@relay.com
Subject: RE HBD advice
In #1811, SoarMoose@aol.com discusses recently-posted advice re pitching
temps:
>Well...I haven't seen a good reason why I shouldn't pitch at the same
>temperatures that I always do, even though someone chastised us all for
^^^^^^^^^
>pitching at higher temps.
I'm sure the posters weren't intending to chastise anyone - they were
simply offering advice based on their experience. I think it's kind of
nice that folks take the time to "give something back" to homebrewing by
posting here. As with most advice, one can take it or leave it.
>There was a good note explaining in extremely
>high-tech terms what "Might" happen, but I really don't know how to tell
>if I have too much ethylacetlyetehstace in my beer.
I don't know how to tell either, but I imagine some found the post of
interest. I'll bet he would tell you if asked ;-)
>My point to all of us who pitch at higher temps with good results is:
>don't worry about it.
.. and a bit later on:
>Until you see a detrimental effect on your brewing, even the
>stearnest warning doesn't mean a thing.
Don't worry, have a homebrew. Make what you like to drink, and enjoy it
:-) _BUT_....I'd counter with this point: Nothing ventured, nothing
gained! One's brew may be good or even great now, but how much better
could it become? There just might be a really neat beer waiting for you
just around the corner :-)
>No matter what the "experienced" homebrewers say, I make consistently good
>beer that is usually as clear (or clearer) than theirs and tastes great.
Cheers!
-Tim
Tim Fields / Vienna, VA, USA / timf@relay.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 08:01:32 -0700
From: rider@pullman.com (Bill Johns)
Subject: sources
>From: Carl Etnier <Carl.Etnier@abc.se>
>Subject: drawing wort/ leaky 5-liter keg
>
>There was a posting last year about drawing wort from a carboy with a
>60 cc syringe and a catheter, for measuring specific gravity during
>fermentation (can't give credit where credit is due to a hard disk
>crash). My medical connections are not good enough to get ahold of a
>syringe that big, so I have taken a tip from the siphoning thread
>from a couple months ago and adapted it, using no medical supplies.
Really don't need medical supply connections. Go to any rural general
store, the kinda place that specializes in animal husbandry stuff. You
will be able to find all sorts of huge syringes, and reasonably cheap, too.
Just a thought.
Bill
- -------
rider@pullman.com
It's OK to be happy. :-)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 11:22:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: more temps
Chris (SoarMoose@aol.com) writes:
<Well...I haven't seen a good reason why I shouldn't pitch at the same
<temperatures that I always do, even though someone chastised us all for
<pitching at higher temps.
I didnt chastise anyone! I stated that I felt pitching at higher temps
was bad, but also clearly indicated that this is relative to many other
factors, yeast strain and the brewers desires being standouts. I will
point out that most ales will generate between 5-10 degrees F of additional
temp during high krausen, so if you pitch at 80F and dont attemperate
I wouldnt want to drink many of the resultant chemicals.
If you can rapidly drop and maintain a temp after pitching at 80F, the
impact will be greatly reduced. This is near impossible for most of
us.
Certainly, the desire of all brewers is to produce beer *they* like,
its a personal choice and one that makes brewing so individualistic.
There is a large body of "Relax dont worry" homebrewers out there. There
is also a large body of folks who would like to understand more completely
the chemistry that is involved in producing this carbon soup that we all
love so much.
If you dont want to believe the experience of some "OTHER experienced"
homebrewers like myself and A.J., fine. Go read some chemistry and
brewing texts. There is bulk of detailed information on the subject of
yeast metabolism, esters and fusel alcohol creation.
Good brewing,
Jim Busch
busch@mews.gsfc.nasa.gov
If some part of that music
is heard in deepest dream,
or on some breeze of Summer
a snatch of golden theme,
we'll know you live inside us
with love that never parts
our good old Jack O'Diamonds
become the King of Hearts. R. Hunter
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 08:45:32 PDT
From: rone@mdhost.cse.TEK.COM
Subject: Hunter Air Stat Summary
As several folks have pointed out here and in email, the problem with
the Hunter units is a zener diode (Z1) on the board that switches the
AC. This is a 24V, 5W device.
The diode is obviously being pushed passed its published specs of 5W.
The pc board (in my unit and probably all units) is scortched, even
the solder connections appeared to have gotten hot enough to emit a
little solder flux.
A short term fix would replace the zener with a higher power part.
The zener would have to raised off the board to prevent further
scorching.
So far, the highest power part I've found is 4W. I'm still looking.
Thanks to everyone who replied with the excellent information.
Ron Ezetta
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 95 00:55:45 +1000
From: CHARLIE SCANDRETT <merino@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Amazing Amazonion Floating Brewery
This is some interesting historical trivia.
The Amazon river is a giant sewer for millions of people. When travelling the
upper reaches in
the dry season it is the only source of water.
A couple of years ago I found myself in the Colombian branch of the northern
Amazon sailing to Mitu
on the Brazilian border. The boat was a brigt blue, 35 ft cocaine-lab supply
canoe, loaded with gasoline,
H2SO4 and ammonia. The hot brown water was jumping with pathogens lusting for
my gringo intestines.
However the local indians have long brewed their water to control nasties.
These blokes kept two 5 gal tanks
fermenting all the time. They would fill it up with water straight from the
river, add "arepas", a sort of
corn cake, lots of pinapple peels and "panella". Panella is raw sugar cane
extract, crystalised in a
solid block. It is sliced from the block into the fermenter with a wickedly
sharp machete and a macho
disregard for the lurchings of the speeding canoe or your fingers.
The secret is the pineapple peels. Apparently a wild yeast cultures itself in
the sweet ozings in the folds
of the peel. A pineapple is a transportable yeast culture! (cafeful with
fruit adjuncts folks!)
The fermentation continues for 2 days and consumption is begun after a 10
minute lagering period. The
brew is often topped up but is not drunk for a couple of hours after top up.
The pitching and fermentation temps are in the high seventies as it is cooled
by a wet bag, the SG would be about 5+, there never is a FG. The "room" temp is
always +90F.
This corn, sugar & pinapple beer tastes supprisingly good, prevents dysentry
and keeps you mildly drunk.
After 8 days of this "garaupo" and several hundred miles of trees, howling
monkeys, crocodiles,
mosquitoes and more bloody trees, I was pleasently numb. The shock of watching
guerillas take
a man away in a canoe to be shot lifted the ambience rapidly!
My rapid exit from the region erased all thoughts of brewing until I found the
photos the other day of
Allidio's Floating Blue Brewery, complete with heavily armed smiling patrons!
Charlie
"its not always this quiet around here",.................. Allidio
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 09:21:00 -0700
From: bgros@mindseye.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: british pale malt, homegrown hops
Two questions:
1. I just bought a sack of Hugh Baird British Pale Ale malt. Are there any
styles (besides lagers I guess) where a regular ( American I guess) 2-row
malt would be better to use? Why is lager malt better for lagers?
2. Do fresh picked homegrown hops need to be dried to use? If you pick the
cones and use them for finishing hops or dry hops without drying them, do
you get the same results? I assume you need to dry them to store them.
Thanks.
Also, Jim Busch posted a quote describing the adverse effects of pitching
and fermenting at high temperatures. If I'm not mistaken, the original
concerns were just with pitching at high tempertures and letting the
fermenter cool to normal fermenting temps. For example, if you have trouble
cooling to 65F with your wort chiller because the water temperature is only
65F, so you chill for half hour till the wort gets to about 80F, rack,
pitch, and put the carboy in a 65F cellar. Does the higher temp of the wort
at pitching lead to faster reproduction of the yeast and lower lag times,
and does the drawbacks of higher fermentation tempertures apply when the
temperature is only elevated for 12 hrs or so.
I guess that was three questions. :-)
- Bryan
bgros@mindseye.berkeley.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 12:16:03 -0400
From: Chris Cooper <ccooper@a2607cc.msr.hp.com>
Subject: New Micro in Michigan, Big Buck Brewery
In HBD #1810 Bob Paolino asked about Michigan and Ontarion breweries.
I live in Michigan and just returned from a week of camping in
Michigan's beautiful UP (upper peninsula). On our way home we stopped in
Gaylord, Michigan (app. 1 hour south of the Mackinac bridge and 4 hours
north of Detroit on I-75) and visited the newly built Big Buck brewery.
The micro opened over the 95 Memorial day weekend and has been going
strong ever since. The brewery is apparently a well funded venture
and features an excellent restaurant (steaks, chops, burgers from a large
indoor flamed grill) and a large "bar" area arranged around the
glassed-in brewery area (the bar has a beautifully carved railing
and peanuts on every table end up on the floor creating a very relaxed
mood). The building is cavernous and rustic but very modern in it's
features.
The beer (they had 7 varieties on tap when I was there) ranged from
good to excellent , the darker the beer the better!! IMHO.
While waiting to be seated (7:30 on a Wednesday night the wait was 45 min.)
I asked the hostess some questions about the operation and mentioned
I was a home brewer, Bingo that was the magic ticket, she brought the
night manager over and introduced us. Paul (the night manager) spent
about 20 minutes giving me and my family a complete VIP tour of the
facility and showed us every nook and crany of the place, he said
they liked to go out of their way for home brewers and made our
experience one my whole family will remember.
The brewery has regular tours Wed-Sat at 2,4,6 pm and is setting up
a visitor's center and reception/tasting area in their basement.
So for any of you out there in HBD land if you find yourself on I-75
headed for the north-country stop in Gaylord and check out Big Buck!
Chris Cooper , Commerce Michigan --> Pine Haven Brewery <--
ccooper@a2607.cc.msr.hp.com --> aka. Deb's Kitchen <--
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1812, 08/19/95
*************************************
-------
