Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #1809
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/08/16 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1809 Wed 16 August 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Mini keg carbonation (Fredrik Stahl)
Prickly Pear fruit technique ("Steven W. Smith")
Re: Mead ("Lee C. Bussy")
More on B-Brite (DONBREW)
PVC braided tubing (BF3B8RL)
Home Grown Hops (Bruce Kiley)
Siphons ("David Wright")
Minneapolis Brewpubs??? ("Bessette, Bob")
re Bass fermentation (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
Cooling the Wort (Dan Walker)
Re: Bathtub "fermenting" (TJWILLIA)
Oops. (Ed Hitchcock)
Hazelnut extract in Nut Brown Ale ("Michael R. Swan")
party pig (Help !!?!!) (Robin Hanson)
partial mash kits (kpnadai)
Wholesale Malt (Greg Holton)
Hunter Energy Monitor Trouble (rone)
SG Corrections/Sanke Dip Tubes/Chill Times (Kirk R Fleming)
H2O2--not in my wort (Glenn Tinseth)
Emergency:BrewPubs in Manhattan (Ray Gaffield)
Pitching temp (Brandon's Daddy)
Mega Craft Breweries (John DeCarlo )
Finings for Wheat? (Mark Kirby)
Mega-craft brewing. (Russell Mast)
Re: Pitching temp (SoarMoose)
Dead Thread. (Russell Mast)
Re: More on B-Brite, wort chilling (Jim Dipalma)
Brewing Women. (Russell Mast)
Re: Mash-out and extract efficiency (Dan Sherman)
Re:women brewers (Suzette Smith)
Wort Dilution (A. J. deLange)
Pouring Agar Plates?? (BixMeister)
Iodophor use; racking question ("Fr. Bradley A.M. Barber")
Wort chilling/Peroxide oxygenation (Philip Gravel)
Re: pitching temp clarified (PatrickM50)
******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
*
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@alpha.rollanet.org
ARCHIVES:
An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have
ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service,
send an e-mail message to ftpmail@gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
"help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 11:23:18 +0100
From: fredriks@abel.math.umu.se (Fredrik Stahl)
Subject: Re: Mini keg carbonation
In HBD #1807, Geep writes:
>Also, I have been using the 5L mini kegs sicne March and seem to have a
>problem with foam generation vs. carbonation. In those batched where I use
>the standard 3/4c priming sugar, the beer seems to be nicely carbonated, bu=
t
>foam like crazy coming out of the keg (regardless of whether it's the
>initial, no CO2 added, pour, or the later pours). When I switched to 1/2c (=
as
>I've seen recommended in various places in the past), I get an
>undercarbonated, yet drinkable, beer with no head. Any suggestions????
I use the 5L mini-kegs as well, with the "Party Star" tap. I usually find
the beer foaming a lot when the keg is full but this is not a problem after
the first few pints. I think I should say here that I brew British ales
mostly, with the corresponding lower carbonation level. I have never brewed
a lager, but some months ago I bought three mini-keg with Beck's, and I
remember them foaming a lot. This was not a problem though, since I simply
waited for the foam to recede a little, refilled the glass, waited and so
on. It took a few minutes to pour a glass but in the end the beer had good
carbonation and a nice head. (I won't say that about the taste of Beck's
though. Filled mini-kegs in Germany are cheaper than empty ones in Sweden.)
I have noticed that I get a "sparkler" effect from the tap when I don't
open it fully. I use this to get a nice head on some northern style British
beers. You could try opening the tap fully if you don't do it already.
I have to admit that I really love the foam. Maybe I'm a "foam-head".
("head-head"?)
/Fredrik Stahl (fredriks@abel.math.umu.se)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 02:32:06 -0700 (MST)
From: "Steven W. Smith" <SYSSWS@gc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: Prickly Pear fruit technique
All this recent talk about Prickly Pear beer drives me to share an
official Desert Rat secret for dealing with cactus fruit: BURN EM! Carefully.
Those "little fuzzy spots" are nasty little thorns that are orders of
magnitude worse than fiberglass on sweaty skin. Washing over the fruit
with a propane torch will zap the thorns so you can safely pick and peel the
fruit - Note: PEEL THE FRUIT. FWIW, the real DR technique is to whack the
fruit off of the cactus with a stick, then flame them over an open fire on
some sort of rack. Peel, and eat (the fruit, that is. Nothing worse than
naked idiots standing in the desert with red goo on their chins. Geez.)
I personally would still wear the gloves. I like the heavy black neoprene(?)
"chemical proof" work gloves rather than leather for working around cacti.
They're hot, but they resist thorns much more effectively.
Warning: don't set your hair, bystanders, or the terrain on fire whilst
fulfilling your bizarro urge for cactus fruit, eh?
P.S. This is on topic; I said "beer" in the first line. B-)
_,_/|
\o.O; Steven W. Smith - Systems Programmer, but not a Licensed Therapist
=(___)= Glendale Community College, Glendale Az. USA
U syssws@gc.maricopa.edu or smith@peabody.gc.maricopa.edu
"I see a BIG telephone bill in your future!" - my Psychic Friend
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 05:55:03 +0000
From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb@southwind.net>
Subject: Re: Mead
James Giacalone (nice Irish name! :) ) asked about mead:
> I started a honey mead in June. I recently racked it over to
> another carboy to help clarify it and leave the yeast sediment
> behind. I now have a large airspace between the top of the mead
> and the airlock. My questions are; Should I add ascorbic acid at
> this point? Will the mead become oxidized as wine does in this
> situation? Should I top off the mead with other mead; sterile
> water...?
Yes, do top it off with boiled and cooled water. This will help to
prevent oxidation and that little amount of water won't dilute it
much at all. Alternitavely if you are concerned you can add some new
must from a supsequent batch but I don't feel this is necessary.
I had heard of some old wime makers here in town dropping
(sterilized) marbles into the fermenter to decrease the headspace.
This sounds like it would work but I never tried it. Anyone?
And by the way, yes, I am alive. I have not been consumed by flames
and I have promised to have my coffee first before answering posts!
:)
I also saw the tail end of a post regarding AOLers. Yes, they have a
bad name, yes, I hate their mailler too (no real names) but a point
was made to just sign the post.
Very good idea.
Unless your memory is like mine of course! There is a program
(sorry to get off track here... no affiliation, etc) called Spell
Check from Next Generation Software that I used while on AOL that
appended a tagline automatically after spell checking (another good
idea). Maybe this will help.
Now, back to our show!
- --
-Lee Bussy | When guns are outlawed, how are |
leeb@southwind.net| we going to shoot the liberals? |
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 08:44:29 -0400
From: DONBREW@aol.com
Subject: More on B-Brite
I happened to be reading the label of the Electro-Sol box the other day,
(don't ask why) and to my surprise I found that it was very nearly the same
as the label on B-Brite. Being a frugal type, I set about looking for the
cheapest dishwasher detergent available and reading labels, Ah Ha The local
discount drug store (CVS) carries a brand containing no perfume, the rest of
the ingredients are identical (listed in the same order, I'm assuming that
the law is the same as for food) with some bleach added. I have used this
stuff to soak bottles for over a week in an aluminum tub, I did not notice
any pitting of the Al, so I guess that the bleach level is pretty low or not
chlorine. Worked as well as B-Brite maybe better! B-brite costs about $10
per pound, diswasher stuff cost $1.19 per 5 pounds, Hummm which is the better
deal?
Don
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 08:55:20 -0400
From: BF3B8RL@TPLANCH.BELL-ATL.COM
Subject: PVC braided tubing
HBD Collective -
I am stepping into all grain brewing this season, and am interested to hear if
any of you have used braided PVC tubing to handle hot wort out of the
mash/lauder tun. This tubing is double thick -- I'm guessing it won't collapse
like vinyl tubing does when in contact with hot wort. It looks like normal
clear tubing with blue/white "braids" running through it.
But unfortuantely I'm unable to relax with this tubing. I remember reading
somewhere (Zymurgy?) that you should only use vinyl tubing. But I've also seen
hop back designs using PVC pipe. So what is the deal here? Is the Poly-vinyl
Chloride (PVC) tubing safe for brewing? Does anyone have any experience with
this PVC tubing? Is there another type of tubing I should be looking for? Will
PVC tubing add toxins/mess with my beloved beer?
Send private email to charles.b.peterson@BELL-ATL.COM or simply post.
Thanks,
Chas Peterson
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 08:56:32 -0400
From: Bruce Kiley <bkiley@sni-usa.com>
Subject: Home Grown Hops
I planted my hops last summer and they didn't grown much. This year they
are growning like crazy. The only proplem is that they have all grown
together. I have them planted next to my garage with a "trellis" up to only
one single point.(I didn't think they were going to grow). My
question/problems is, how do I know which one is which, they have all grown
together? Second, how do I know they they are "ready"?
Bruce
bkiley@sni-usa.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 09:06:19 EST5EDT
From: "David Wright" <LSMAIL@osp.emory.edu>
Subject: Siphons
Here is another siphon trick.
If you siphoning from a carbouy, get a blow off cap and insert a
racking cane through the large diameter spout. Attach tubing to the
top of the racking cane and put the cap onto the carbouy. Run the
tubing to the new vessel. Here is the easy part but some of the
infection paronoids will cringe. With you mouth blow into the unused
spout on the cap. No pump, no mess, very little time. You only have
to blow for about 2-3 seconds and you have a great siphon going. I
have yet to have any contaminated brews so I dont think there is any
real risk of contamination using this method.
David Wright
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 09:42:00 PDT
From: "Bessette, Bob" <bessette@msmailgw.uicc.com>
Subject: Minneapolis Brewpubs???
Fellow Brewers,
I am travelling to Minneapolis on business during the week of August 21st
and would like to know the lowdown on brewpubs in the area. Am I correct in
assuming that Rhino Chasers is made in St Paul? Please send me private email
with any information at bessette@uicc.com. Thanks...
Bob Bessette Unitrode I.C. Corporation
Systems Analyst 7 Continental Blvd
Information Systems Dept Merrimack, NH 03054
Email Address: (W) 603-429-8553
bessette@uicc.com (FAX)603-424-3460
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 10:10:46 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna@relay.com
Subject: re Bass fermentation
In #1807, af509@osfn.rhilinet.gov (Rolland Everitt) writes re his
all-grain Bass clone:
>Five hours after pitching the yeast (70 F. O.G.=1.060), I had 2-3
>inches of foam, followed the next day by a rocky head. Two days
>after pitching, fermentation had slowed, and S.G. was 1.022. The
>krausen had sunk into the wort. I racked to my secondary fermenter,
>a glass carboy.
>A day later, activity seems to have about ceased (no bubbling in
>the fermentation lock, no bubbles on surface of liquid).
>I had a similar experience with my first batch (a pale ale,
>different yeast). That batch is in bottles now, and after ten
>days at 70 F.
and he asks:
>Do ale yeasts ferment this fast at 70 F.? Is 2-3 days for the
>beer to ferment and begin to clear unheard-of? Is it too
>soon to bottle?
I would have pitched a bit cooler than 70F, but 70F should work for
these yeasts. If your F.G at bottling was really 1022, and given your
good initial ferment and the tailing off effect you experienced, my
guess is you may have under-aerated.
Did you aerate the wort, and for how long? I had similar outcomes
that were caused primarily by under-aeration. As to when to bottle, I
do so when 1) the F.G. is stabilized, and 2) when it clears in the
secondary. But pls take this with a grain of salt. I am curious about
possible taste benefits of "aging" in secondary (and in frig) beyond
simple "clarification", but that is part of another question I am
trying to find time to look into :-(
And as I can't resist Rolland's query:
>Will Ross Perot run again?
If he can pull votes from to-b-or-not-to B. Clinton, I *do* hope so
;-)
... dousing myself in homebrew flame retardant inside and out :-)
-Tim
Tim Fields / Vienna, VA, USA / timf@relay.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 09:26:27 -0500
From: mfpdw@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu (Dan Walker)
Subject: Cooling the Wort
I have good luck using two methods of adding Ice to the wort to cool
it down.
One great way is to use zip lock bags (the large ones) put a gallon of
water in and freeze the puppy. When it's time to cool things down I dip
the bag in a cool sanatizing agent, B-bright etc., and float them in the
firmenter. This takes about three bags to bring things to ptiching temp for
ales.
If, heaven forbid, I haven't planned ahead or my lovely spouse has
made room for "more ipmortant" items I just top off the firmenter with ice
cubes. Now we have clorinated water that I run through a clean charcoal
filter but it works out fine.
Relax have a home Brew...
Dan..
Dan Walker mfpdw@uxa.ecn.bgu.edu
1-University Circle 309-293-2372
318 Stipes Hall FAX:309-298-2142
Macomb, IL 614551
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 10:34:55 EDT
From: TJWILLIA@VM.OCC.CC.MI.US
Subject: Re: Bathtub "fermenting"
I just picked up the lowdown on bathtub brewing from someone who actually did
use a tub - my grandmother. She informed me that they would ferment in a tub
to ease cleaning up the beer that escaped the open ceramic crock fermenter.
This still didn't help with all those exploding bottles (and they had quite
a few) :{).
Keep on brewin'
Tom Williams (the other one on HBD!)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 11:53:01 -0300 (ADT)
From: Ed Hitchcock <ehitchcock@sparc.uccb.ns.ca>
Subject: Oops.
Okay, so there's a bug in the recipe-edit programme. I've
submitted a fixed version, it should be in the ../programs directory
soon. If anyone has already downloaded it and had problems I can e-mail
a fixed EXE file. If you have saved any recipes with the defective
programme, use a text editor to put a comma between each of the parameters
in lines 2 and 3 of the recipe and it should be fine with the fixed
version.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
ed
----------------
ehitchcock@sparc.uccb.ns.ca
the Pick & Fossil Picobrewery
Because there's more to life than just coffee
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 11:07:47 -0400
From: "Michael R. Swan" <mswan@fdic.gov>
Subject: Hazelnut extract in Nut Brown Ale
In HBD #1763, Jeff Frane responded to a question about Rogue Nut
Brown Ale:
>> From: Barry M Wertheimer <wertheim@UTKVX.UTCC.UTK.EDU>
>> Subject: Rogue Nut Brown Ale
>> Had the good fortune to taste some of Rogue's Nut Brown Ale while
>> traveling through a neighboring state. Very nice nutty, chocalate
>> flavor, plus something else that was very familiar, but I could not
>> place. Any comments on this brew or speculation as to its ingredients?
<<<Hazelnut extract is the "secret" ingredient.
<<<-Jeff Frane
Has anyone brewed a batch using hazelnut extract? How did it turn
out? Any ideas as to how much extract should be used? Should it go in the
secondary or the bottling bucket? Thanks in advance.
Mike Swan
Dallas, Texas
mswan@fdic.gov
Standard disclaimers apply
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 09:27:33 -0600
From: rhanson@nmsu.edu (Robin Hanson)
Subject: party pig (Help !!?!!)
Michael wrote the following
>Pumping, then the figin pump hose shot off and un-carbonated beer ejected out
>of the pig. I assume I pumped the required amount of air to start the air bag
>going so I closed it up and let the excess air out,and put it in my basement
>for conditioning. I hope I dont go down there and find pig guts all over my
>walls.
I found that after about 30 pumps that it is best to just give it a try. You
may not have heard the pouch pop, but it is usually ready. After about 30
pumps the pump starts to get hard use. This is when you should release.
Sometimes it works sometimes it does not, but you do not get any spillage
that way.
Robin
Robin Hanson
Rhanson@nmsu.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 10:27:04 PDT
From: kpnadai@adsnet.com
Subject: partial mash kits
>Date: Sat, 12 Aug 95 17:47 EDT
>From: vic@iglou.com (Victor Hugo)
>Subject: "partial mash kits" and "specialty grain extracts"
<snip>
>I recently stopped in the Wine Art/Brewers Art store in INDIANAPOLIS, I
>bought my kit from them and they seemed pretty knowledgeable (sp? &
>disclaimer), the proprieter tried to sell me on a "partial mash kit". His
>explinations of the kit said it inclued the ground grains and all other
>essentials.
<snip>
>Vic Hugo
I live about three hours North of Indy and I stop by Wine Art whenever I
am in town. I was there a week ago today (Tuesday).
Whenever I am in there, he tries to sell me real hard on those kits. As
I understand, it is a complete, "advanced" extract kit. All the things
you would do to spruce up a kit (specialty grains, flavor and aroma hops,
etc.)are in there.
I am not the most cost effective brewer. Here on the Southeast shore of
Lake Michigan, homebrew shops aren't plenty. The few that are here, the
prices are outrageous. (Like, three month old Wyeast packs for $11.95?)
I mail order and since I travel for work, I stop by homebrew shops around
the American Midwest to stock up. I buy Northwest extract by the case
and whole hops by the pound (Just Hops, excellent service, SDA)
But I think one of those kits at Wine art were around forty bucks! Even
I won't pay that! Their three week wine kits are intriguing, beautiful
packaging, but also forty bucks!
Too steep for me...
Brew bayou,
Kevin Nadai
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 11:42:51 -0500 (EDT)
From: holton@kgn.ibm.com (Greg Holton)
Subject: Wholesale Malt
Does anyone know of a malt house in the Western NY/Southern Ontario area
that will sell to the general public?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 10:03:05 PDT
From: rone@mdhost.cse.TEK.COM
Subject: Hunter Energy Monitor Trouble
My Hunter Energy Monitor has decided to quit turning on my
refrigerator. When the LCD display indicates that the refrigerator
is turned on (flashing temperature), the voltage at the outlet is 0.
It appears the mechanism that switches the AC is broken.
Has anyone else had this problem - and if so, what was the fix?
Ron Ezetta
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 11:04:25 -0600
From: flemingk@usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: SG Corrections/Sanke Dip Tubes/Chill Times
RE: SG corrections for Temperature
- ----------------------------------
Chris Vyhnal in #1808 mentioned that for temps between 35F and 80F that
hydrometer corrections were about .002 or less. I noticed this because
my table indicates the corrections for the range 30F to 73F are .001 or
or less. This means there are a number of equations being used out
there...
I've been using a sg vs. temp curve I found in the HBD some time back,
and which the author (I think) fit to data in the Handbook of Chemistry
and Physics (the "CRC"). Anyway, this is a 3rd-order fit to allow you
to correct a direct sg reading to any h-meter calibration temperature.
Barring any transcription errors, I have:
correction = 1.62860587e-05(tc - t) - 5.84994855e-06(tc^2 - t^2)
+ 1.53243635e-08(tc^3 - t^3) (1)
where t is the sample temperature (deg C) and tc is the hydrometer
calibration temperature (deg C). To see how this general equation
compared to the one Chris presented (which was for a 60F hydrometer),
I replaced tc with 15.56C (60F) and expanded:
correction = -1.1622e-03 - 2.5334e-04t + 1.4155e-03t^2
-1.53243635e-08t^3 (2)
Compare this with Chris's equation:
correction = -2.0331e-03 - 3.2491e-05t + 1.1043e-06t^2 (3)
The two equations provide the following corrections:
sp grav temp range, F NOTE 1: This table covers the
correct. Eqn 1 Eqn 2 range of 30F - 122F.
- ------------------------
-0.002 na 30-41 NOTE 2: This table would be a
-0.001 30-53 42-54 handy little item to
0.000 54-65 55-64 have on hand for most
+0.001 66-73 65-73 brewers who haven't
+0.002 74-81 74-80 found one elsewhere.
+0.003 82-87 81-87
+0.004 88-93 88-93 NOTE 3: The Eqn 1 corrections
+0.005 94-98 94-98 agree with the table that
+0.006 99-103 99-103 appeared in the Spring 95
+0.007 104-108 104-108 Zymurgy (which were taken
+0.008 109-112 109-113 from Noonan's lager book
+0.009 113-116 114-117 p. 262)
+0.010 117-120 118-122
Assuming the two equations have been transcribed correctly from the
original sources, then I guess the question is whether the physics
of the problem is better modeled with 2nd or 3rd order curves. If
there is someone out there who has a handle on goodness-of-fit for
these regressions it would be interesting to root this out a bit.
Salvaged Sanke dip tubes.
- ------------------------
Last week someone asked what use these tubes could be put to after dicing
up Sanke kegs. I cut one off for use as a hydrometer jar--I found a
plastic cap that fit over the bottom and just taped it on with
electrician's tape. A more craftsmanlike job could be done by making a
base/bottom cap from something like a hockey puck--whatever.
I mentioned this before, but with tap water that hovers around 60F in
the hottest part of the summer, I can cool a sample to calibration temp
in just a minute or so. The metal hydrometer jar has the heat transfer
thing going for it, and is unbreakable. Being stainless is another nice
feature. Commercial micros I've been to seem to just use rigid copper
pipe.
Obligatory Chill Time Data Contribution
- ---------------------------------------
A 47ft dual-concentric coil of 3/8" copper with the maximum flow rate
I can get from the kitchen, (running 55-60F water) cools 3.5 gal of
your basic 40-60 gravity wort from 190F to 65-70F in under 4 minutes.
The drop from 190 to 120F occurs too fast to time it with just two
hands and binocular eyeballs. Last night, with the water at 60F exactly
coming from a 3/4" copper supply line thru the garden hose, it took
4 minutes to chill 2.5 gal of 1.130-weight wort to 70F. A bit more of
a challenge (in ALL respects) :-).
KRF Colorado Springs
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 09:47:13 -0700
From: gtinseth@teleport.com (Glenn Tinseth)
Subject: H2O2--not in my wort
Rich Larsen <rlarsen@free.org> wrote:
>>I took a yeast starter, transferred the living yeast to a larger flash
>>and added some fresh wort. In the original smaller flask, I added some
>>fresh wort also, about 50 ml, then about 10 ml Hydrogen peroxide.
To which Bill Johns <rider@pullman.com> responded:
>EGADS!! H2O2 is a hellishly strong oxidizer. It'll kill everything in
>the pot.
Not to mention oxidizing hop aroma and flavor compounds, reduced
melanoidins, and a host of other things you don't want to oxidize. I'll
stick with my little aquarium pump, bubbler, and HEPA filter.
Glenn
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 11:36:36 -0500
From: ray_gaffield@il.us.swissbank.com (Ray Gaffield)
Subject: Emergency:BrewPubs in Manhattan
A colleague of mine who suddenly finds himself in Manhattan this
week has ask me to make an
Emergency request for any information on good brewpubs or other fine
drinking establishments
in the area, especially any featuring Belgian beers.
Please help. Thank you.
RAY
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 13:24:51 -0400
From: joep@informix.com (Brandon's Daddy)
Subject: Pitching temp
>>>>> Jim Busch writes:
Jim> Pat relates: <Time to cool wort to 80 deg. F using 25'x 3/8"
Jim> copper tubing immersion <chiller = approx 20-25 minutes
Jim> I just wanted to point out to any newer brewers that pitching ale
Jim> yeast at this high a temp is very bad. Im sure Pat does something
Jim> to drop the temp closer to 70F prior to fermentation, but I didnt
Jim> want others to get the idea that this is desirable. I aim for
Jim> 60-65F prior to pitching ale yeast, but it can be a pain with
Jim> water temps running 80F+ these days. I use an inline ice water
<snip>
I have always pitched around 80F without any problem. What are the
risks of pitching at 80F (besides the risk of killing the yeast?). My
house is kept at about 78F in the spring and summer (and fall :) ).
That is my fermentation temperature. No problems with ferments in 13
batches.
joe.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Joe Pearl, Sr. Sales Engineer, Informix Software, Inc. |
| 8675 Hidden River Parkway, Tampa, FL, 33637 813-615-0616 |
| PGP'd email preferred |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Be wary of the man who urges an action in which he himself incurs no risk. |
| JOAQUIN de SETANTI |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 14:19:56 EST
From: John DeCarlo <jdecarlo@mitre.org>
Subject: Mega Craft Breweries
Well, since I regularly compare beer to bread, let's look at the bread market,
even in your supermarket. In my part of the country, you have lots of "whole
wheat" breads (even Wonder Bread whole wheat!) and very few "soft white white
white" breads. Sure, the "mega bakers" have less flavorful, cheaper products
and more market share, but the bakeries are selling more bread and even
supermarkets are selling bread baked there or close by.
John DeCarlo, MITRE Corporation, McLean, VA--My views are my own
Fidonet: 1:109/131 Internet: jdecarlo@mitre.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:15:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Kirby <mkirby@isnet.is.wfu.edu>
Subject: Finings for Wheat?
I need some advice for a Bavarian Wheat (via CM3). It's currently in the
secondary and all seems fine, but I'm wondering about finings. I
understand that wheats are generally hazy, etc. (I used wheat malt
like the recipe suggested). Is it ok to use gelatin to settle the yeast
and still maintain the style? Should I stay away from polyclar (tm?) as
an attempt to eliminate the protein haze for this beer style? I'm unsure
at the moment so any experiences you can share would be appreciated. BTW,
I love the clove aroma of this brew. I used 3944, which seemed to work great!
TIA,
Todd Kirby
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 13:22:32 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Mega-craft brewing.
I tend to agree that craft brewing will not die when most are bought out
by the megas. Sure, the desire for good beer is a fad for most people who
are into it, but there are enough of us left to constitute a market worth
selling to. The craft beer industry will probably be at half its current
size in 15 years regardless of who owns what. At the same time, when they
"dummy up" or "water down" beers, this is a major loss. If they can make
as much or more money making good beer, they will continue to do so.
As for betting on which companies will be bought up, I would think that
either Grant's or Sierra Nevada would be a real nice addition to any mega's
portfolio, but both are a bit too big for a hostile takeover. (If they're
even public, which I don't know.)
The Win-It-Too company was engineered for a takeover. My prediction - early
'97, they'll be bought (or bailed) out by Stroh's, Leinenkugel's or Interbrew.
(In that order of probability.)
-R
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:57:26 -0400
From: SoarMoose@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pitching temp
>
>I just wanted to point out to any newer brewers that pitching ale yeast
>at this high a temp is very bad. Im sure Pat does something to drop the
>temp closer to 70F prior to ferm
>
Please specify what you mean by "Very Bad" when you talk about pitching at
80. I pitch at higher temperatures all the time and get good, vigorous
fermentation and no off flavors. I use a strain of Chico yeast that I get
from a local brewery and find that my ales come out just right.
-Chris (C&S Nanobrewery)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:09:06 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Dead Thread.
I've been getting my HBDs out of order, and I think I've been dropped from
the list twice in the past two weeks. Anyone else having similar problems?
> From: Rich Larsen <rlarsen@free.org>
> Subject: Yeast & H2O2
> I declare this thread DEAD.
You can't do that. If you try, a bunch of kneebiters like me will post saying
that you can't kill a thread, only a thread can kill a thread. (Guns don't
kill people, bullets kill people.) Then, the next thing you'll get is a bunch
of goobers lampooning it, making stupid jokes for years. "My mercury LeSable
runs on Peroxide, is my coriander ruined?" Har har. No, the only way to kill
a thread is to just let it die of natural causes. Declaring it dead just opens
the digest up to a bunch of wasted bandwidth on obscure jokes. We wouldn't
want that, would we?
-R
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 15:22:52 EDT
From: dipalma@sky.com (Jim Dipalma)
Subject: Re: More on B-Brite, wort chilling
Hi All,
In a recent HBD, Harry writes:
>I too have noticed a
>change in the B-Brite formula. It now suds up more like a detergent than
>before. I liked it better before.
I liked the old BBrite better, too. The new formulation is suspiciously
similar to dishwasher detergent. I switched to iodophor.
>do you folks rinse
>after the B-Brite? I've seen somewhere that you don't have to but have
>never believed it.
Don't believe it. Rinse. Trust me.
This past spring, I entered a bock in a competition. The judging was done
at a site in my hometown, so I made arrangements with the organizer to hand
deliver my entry. The night before the competition, I CP-filled the bottles,
which had been soaking in a bucket of BBrite. It was 1 AM, I was just a little
groggy, and inadvertantly neglected to rinse out the bottles, just filled
them and capped them.
Next day, I was sitting next to the panel that was judging the sub-category
that I'd entered. On that panel was a National judge, who's also a friend and
a fellow member of the same homebrew club. I listened as nearly the entire
flight was scored in the low to mid 20s, a very dismal collection of beers
indeed.
At the end of the day, I retrieved my scoresheets, and saw comments like
"sulfury" and "solvent-like", along with a score of 22. I *knew* these
flavors weren't in the beer, so I went back to where the stewards were, and
asked them to pull one of the remaining two bottles. Sure enough, the judges'
comments were right on the money, the beer had a harsh, chemical solvent-like
taste.
Fast forward two weeks, I was sitting in the living room of this same
National judge, and poured him a glass of the same bock from a bottle that
had been rinsed. He remarked that it was "really quite good", then asked me
why I hadn't entered it as "I'd score this a 35, at least". BTW, the beer that
won the competiton scored just over 37.
*********************************************************************
Picking up the thread on chilling times, Dion writes:
>Due to some replies I have gotten personally on this subject, maybe a
>good plan would be for people with experiences similar to Doc's
>(i.e. short chilling times without stirring) to submit temperature
>readings of their input water. Mine here in San Diego is usually
>around 65-70F which I know certainly accounts for the extremely long
>time to come down from 90F to 75F.
I think the temp of the input water is key. I have a deep dug well, and in
the depths of a New England winter, its temperature is typically 40F-45F.
I use an immersion chiller, 50' of 3/8" copper, and can chill a 10 gallon
batch in about 20 minutes during the winter, no stirring.
This time of year, using the same chiller and volume of wort, it takes ~35
minutes, almost twice as long. I haven't measured the temp of the water, I'd
guesstimate it's about 70F. I'm brewing this coming Saturday, I'll measure
both the temp and the chilling time, and report back.
A couple of notes on the "design" of this chiller. I used 50' because it
came in a 50' roll, and I was too lazy to cut it. I just left a few feet on
the ends for the inlet/outlet connections, then coiled it around a corny keg.
I used some copper wire to arrange the coils so the ones near the top of the
chiller were spaced more closely together than the coils near the bottom.
I also connected the inlet so that the cold water entering the chiller went
through the top coils first. It seemed to me that these latter two steps would
allow the chiller to work with the natural convection currents, rather than
fight against them, though I could be way off on this. I haven't taken a
course that required me to solve a heat transfer problem since the late '60s.
I'd like to hear from those who report 40 minutes to chill 5 gallons with an
immersion chiller. What length and diameter of tubing are you using? Which
end of the coils are you connecting the inlet to??
One final observation. I've noticed when the wort is done chilling, the
outside of the kettle below the liquid level is quite cool, whereas the
outside of the kettle above the liquid level is still very warm, almost hot
to the touch. I think the poor heat conductivity of SS has something to do
with it. Anybody else notice this??
Cheers,
Jim dipalma@sky.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:24:40 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Brewing Women.
I was so peeved that Suzette Smith accused me of being sexist and
"unwelcoming" towards women that I went back and re-read my original
post. Apparently, the word "nice" was dropped, probably due to my
own "user error".
What I meant to say was that I think that women should be made to feel
welcome to our hobby. If they don't want to brew, that shouldn't bother
us - unless their reason for not wanting to brew is that we make them
feel unwelcome.
I -do- think that the sundry issues of why men prefer certain hobbies more
than women is an intractable mess, and just plain dull. The answers to the
question "why do fewer women brew?" are usually rife with BS, people's pet
theories, and finger-pointing. It's just not a thread worth pursuing.
Maybe it's dead now...
Seriously, if you encounter some guy who is making women feel uninvited to our
homebrew party, tell them what an idiot they are.
If you encounter someone who'd rather talk about hops than pop-psych, well,
give them a beer.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 12:42:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dan Sherman <dsherman@sdcc3.ucsd.edu>
Subject: Re: Mash-out and extract efficiency
John ?Lastname? told how his extract efficiency skyrocketed when he
started doing a mash-out.
Though a little personal experience and several conversations with other
brewers, I have found the same thing. It seems that grain bed
temperature has a definite effect on lautering efficiency. Even the
simple act of covering the lauter tun while sparging helps to keep the
grain bed temp. up and increases the amount of sugar that is dissolved
into the sparge water.
Dan Sherman
San Diego, CA
dsherman@ucsd.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 16:59:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: Suzette Smith <SSMITH1@drew.edu>
Subject: Re:women brewers
Date: 15-Aug-1995 04:52pm EST
From: Smith, Suzette
SSMITH1
Dept: FAC/STAFF
Tel No: (201)-408-3208
TO: Remote Addressee ( _in%HOMEBREW@HPFCMI.FC.HP.COM )
CC: Remote Addressee ( _in%RMAST@FNBC.COM )
Subject: Re:women brewers
I want to publicly thank Russell for taking the time to craft a response
to the women brewers thread. Put in the proper context, his original
message (HBD #?) doesn't ruffle as many feathers.
I apologize if I ruffled any feathers with my own comments. I guess I
think homebrewing is so much fun that EVERYONE should do it, and am quite
confused when I find *any* individuals that seem less than fascinated by
the hobby.
Now the reward for living another day---a homebrew for each hand and all
my friends!
Suzette
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 19:05:02 -0500
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Wort Dilution
As there has been some discussion of wort dilution in the last few numbers
I thought I'd toss in my method. I assume the problem to be solved is: I
have x gallons of wort at gravity y and want gavity z < x. To what volume
should I dilute?. I do this by first finding the pounds of extract I have.
The pounds per gallon of wort is approximately w = .0834*y + .000317*y*y
where y is the desired gravity in degrees Plato.The total extract is then W
= w*x. Next find the amount of extract per gallon required to give the
desired gravity, z. The same formula gives r = .0834*z + .000317*z*z. After
the dilution r is equal to the total extract, W, divided by the diluted
volume, V i.e. r = W/V. This is easily solved for V as V = W/r and the
water to be added is approximately, but not exactly, V - x.
A related problem is: I have x gallons of wort at gravity y. What will the
gravity be if I dilute to V gallons? The first step is the same i.e. I
calculate that I have a total of W pounds of extract in the x gallons.
After dilution the pounds per gallon are r = W/V and we want the gravity
for this concentration. It is obtained from P = 11.987*r -.54376*r*r +
.0215*r*r*r.
For those working with specific gravity the Plato gravity can be obtained from
P = .016 + .2569*u - .000192*u*u where u = 1000*(SG - 1) for example if
the specific gravity is 1.036 then u = 36.
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 20:30:11 -0400
From: BixMeister@aol.com
Subject: Pouring Agar Plates??
I have all the basic materials for pouring agar plates. For safety, however
I would like to be able to have my agar/wort media in a container with the
following properties:
1. autoclavable
2. small opening with tight seal capable of being opened
quickly(possibly some sort of mechanically operated
opening similar to the commercial safety gas cans
that open with a trigger type mechanism.
All ideas are welcome.
BixMeister
BixMeister@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 20:38:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Fr. Bradley A.M. Barber" <bbarber@tenet.edu>
Subject: Iodophor use; racking question
I have conflicting information on the use of Iodophor. One source
(Williams Brewing) says that iodine sanitizer should be used at the ratio
of two teaspoons per gallon of water. One should then rinse to remove
toxic iodine residue. Other sources say that one should not exceed 0.5
oz. per five gallons. No rinsing is necessary. Who is right?
Secondly, I have read with some interest recently about *racking* from
the brewpot to the primary. In my five or six batches so far, I have
never racked to the primary, simply because my instructions said nothing
about it. Is is beneficial to rack to the primary rather than simply
pouring?
TIA
Fr. Bradley A.M. Barber
Pastoral Institute
Diocese of Corpus Christi
1200 Lantana
Corpus Christi, TX 78407-1112
E-Mail: bbarber@tenet.edu
ppwf22a@prodigy.com
Telephone: (512) 289-5030
Fax: (512) 289-1867
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 23:49 CDT
From: pgravel@mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Wort chilling/Peroxide oxygenation
===> Chuck Wettergreen comments about chilling times:
>I'm sure you're all chilling five gallons, but five gallons of what? A
>very high gravity wort should take longer to cool simply because of the
>increased mass of the solution. Just think about cooling 5 gallons of honey
>vs. five gallons of distilled water. Which will cool faster, given the same
>chiller, inlet temperature, water pressure, and flow rate?
Many factors come into play in chilling wort. One of the most
important is the heat capacity (amount of heat (Kcal) needed to raise
the temperature 1^C) of the medium being cooled. I would expect that
a high gravity wort has a higher heat capacity than plain water or a
low gravity wort and therefore would need more water to cool it to a
given temperature all other things being equal.
Something else to consider is the viscosity of the medium being cooled.
Honey is very viscous and therefore forms thick boundary layers around
the cooling coil which act as insulation and impede heat transfer. A
high gravity wort is more viscous that a low gravity wort, but nowhere
near as viscous as honey.
===> Bill Johns comments about oxygenating wort with H2O2:
>EGADS!! H2O2 is a hellishly strong oxidizer. It'll kill everything in
>the pot.
Absolutely.
>>I knew that would happen... but just had to prove it. H2O2 is NOT a
>>source of oxygen.
>
>Oh yes it is. Gotta use it right.
>As long as you're in the experimental mode, redo your experiment. First
>get about the same volume of water you will use for your wart volume and
>add some H2O2. Find a metal you can stir with that will cause the
>decomposition of the peroxide. A stainless steel spoon or silver chain
>should work. Just watch for bubbles. Then redo the experiment, this time,
>add the H2O2 to the wort and stir with the metal thing you just determined
>will work. When the bubbling stops, you've probably decomposed all the
>H2O2 and can safely add the yeasties.
I'd be concerned about ensuring that the peroxide is totally decomposed.
To the extent that it's not, it is still available to act as a sanitizer
and an oxidizer. Chlorine bleach will sanitize at the part per million
level. I suspect peroxide would also.
- --
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel@mcs.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 01:06:59 -0400
From: PatrickM50@aol.com
Subject: Re: pitching temp clarified
In HBD#1808 Jim Busch correctly cautions re: an earlier post of mine:
>Pat relates:
>
><Time to cool wort to 80 deg. F using 25'x 3/8" copper tubing immersion
><chiller = approx 20-25 minutes
>
>I just wanted to point out to any newer brewers that pitching ale yeast
>at this high a temp is very bad. Im sure Pat does something to drop the
>temp closer to 70F prior to fermentation,
Right you are, Jim, and my apologies to all for any confusion caused. Once
the temp of the cooling wort has dropped to about 80 deg or so, I stop
stirring, remove the chiller, and let the wort sit all quiet like and covered
for at least 10 minutes to let the cold break settle. I then siphon using an
aeration-tube at the end of the flex tubing and this further cools the wort
as it fills the fermentor. By the time I'm done the wort is usually in the
65-68 deg. F. area.
Cheers,
Pat Maloney
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1809, 08/16/95
*************************************
-------
