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HOMEBREW Digest #1797
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/08/02 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1797 Wed 02 August 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Two questions. One's stupid. (Scott Christian Gruber)
Re: Tansy (Jeff Schroeder)
Too Much Head (Roy Bourcier)
Carboys / South Bay HB Supply (XDCHRISTIAN)
Re: Wheeler/Protz "Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home" Question (Brian Gowland)
Re: Wheeler/Protz (Fredrik Stahl)
Brewpubs in the DC area. (Steve Glidden)
problems with secondary fermentation & high F.G.'s (HomeBrewer)
Double Boil/Skunking Cider (Joe Pearl)
Aeration (Pierre Jelenc)
Hop rates for partial boils? (MJones)
Re: Stirring w/ Immersion Chiller (Dion Hollenbeck)
Re: Putting on airs (Dion Hollenbeck)
Low carbonation problems (Steve Armbrust)
One Last Religion Post / Post Peeves (Rich Larsen)
RE Aeration equipment sanitizing (TimFields)
Bones' Immersion Chilling (Jeff Stampes)
Dave's sugar stuff/ RIMS thermistors (Eamonn McKernan)
Temp Controller ("Wallinger, W. A.")
Re: Temp controller ("J. Pat Martinez" )
Strike temperature variation w/Gott Cooler... ("Bessette, Bob")
priming ("Wallinger, W. A.")
Frankenmuth wheat for malt (Jeff Renner)
The Cost of Not Sparging ("Fleming, Kirk R., Capt")
Stirring w/ Immersion Chiller (Tom_Williams_at_RAY__REC__ATLANTA)
Low extraction (Rich Hampo)
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Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 20:13:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott Christian Gruber <gruber@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu>
Subject: Two questions. One's stupid.
First Question:
Okay. I'm 2 brews into my homebrewing career and getting the bug to brew
again. I'm considering doing a California Common (A gingered steam,
actually) but I'm worried that the temperature in my apt. will be too
high (Buying a mini-fridge is not an option - space, $, etc..) Wyeast
2112 is supposed to work best at 58-68 degrees. Is the usual room
temperature of my place (about 75 or so) going to ruin my beer?
Should I even bother trying to do a lager? Any advice?
Second Question:
I've noticed a bunch of people using the term "Picobrewery" in their
sigs. Is this the going term for a homebrewery? If so, would the Powers
That Be object to my using it to describe Scottie's Plaid Label? (My
homebrewery)
Told you it was a stupid question. Sorry. Just curious.
Peace and Beer,
scg
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
"Give me a woman who truly loves beer and
I will conquer the world."
- Kaiser Wilhelm
Scott C. Gruber gruber@gwis2.circ.gwu.edu
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 18:22:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jeff Schroeder <jms@rahul.net>
Subject: Re: Tansy
Rolland Everitt asks:
>Charlie Papazian mentions in one of his books that before hops
>gained it's current popularity with brewers, other herbs were
>used. He mentions several of these, including tansy. I happen
>to have a patch of tansy growing just under my kitchen window.
>Has anyone on the list used tansy?
I've never used tansy for brewing, but I've pulled plenty of it out of the
ground in my youth. The reason: Tansy is poisonous to some farm animals.
I don't know what its effects are on humans, but you might want to find
out before you throw it into the boil (or dry tansy, or employ a tansy-back).
- --
Jeff Schroeder | jms@rahul.net
San Jose, CA | PGP'ed mail preferred. Finger for key.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 95 20:38 MDT
From: rjbourc@nmia.com (Roy Bourcier)
Subject: Too Much Head
Greetings from a virgin poster (finally the shame of lurking for oh so long
begins to lift). First, thanks to everyone for fueling my enthusiasm for
this most intoxicating (sorry ;-) of hobbies. Now, a question.
I've been brewing for about 1 1/2 years, all grain for 1 year. For the past
6 months, I've been trying to refine my house pale ale. Started out looking
for a SNPA clone, but drifted into more "floral" brew (I LOVE Cascades).
With my last batch, I'm getting close - with one problem. The head on this
brew is TOO THICK. It's somewhere between whipped cream and lemon meringue.
=46un to have around to impress homebrew skeptics, but not what I'm looking
for. I figure I probably went overboard with the head retention malts. But
maybe something is off in my procedure? Here's a rundown of the brew in
question:
Pale Ale
8 lb 2 row Klages malt
1 lb 20=B0L Crystal
1/2 lb Cara-pils
1/2 lb Malted Wheat
1/2 oz Perle hops (60 min)
1/2 oz Perle hops (30 min)
1 1/2 oz Cascade hops (30 min)
1 oz Cascade hops (2 min)
1 1/2 oz Cascade hops (dry)
RO water with 2 tsp Gypsum/5 gal, 1/2 tsp Epsom salts/5 gal, 1/4 tsp NaCl/5 =
gal
1/4 tsp powdered Irish Moss (10 min)
Yeast Labs American Ale Yeast (16 oz starter)
Protein rest 30 min @ 122=B0F
Mash 154=B0F to conversion
Mashout at 175=B0F and sparge at 170=B0F
Boil for 60 min
OG: 1.052, FG: 1.007
Bottom line: What should I change to obtain a more delicate head with
minimal impact on the flavor profile of this brew? TIA for your help.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Roy J. Bourcier rjbourc@nmia.com
"Once a guy stood all day shaking bugs from his hair."
A Scanner Darkly, by Philip K. Dick
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 22:23:10 -0800 (PST)
From: XDCHRISTIAN@CCVAX.FULLERTON.EDU
Subject: Carboys / South Bay HB Supply
Hi all
Does anyone have a good recipe for the Jamacian Red. I really like the malty
charcter and the bitterness, flavor, nose.
A while back someone asked how to obtain carboys
inexpensively. I'd like to share how I have done it. I
currently have 6 5-gallon carboys and an 8-gallon acid
bottle. I paid $2.50 for each of the 5-gallon carboys and
splurged on the 8-gallon one by paying $10. What I have
done is placed an add in the Recycler (which is free)
saying "Wanted large glass bottles (prefer 5-gallon or
larger". Sometimes it takes a while but people call with
them. One person called with 4 of them who was into
making wine. They sold me all their bottles for $10.and a
lot of wine making equipment for $10.
I recently purchased quite a bit of stuff from South Bay
Homebrew Supply in Torance CA. I've had the best
service from them. I am a blind brewer and I explained to
them (Ruth and Larry) that I use a computer with a
speech synthesizer to read. When I asked about books,
they went through the books I was interested in and read
parts to see if it was what I wanted. I scan the books
with a scanner which turns it into text. Anyhow, I placed
an order for many things. I went to pick it up and they
actually typed up the instructions on their word processor
and put it on a disk. When I came in to pick up my stuff,
they handed me the items requested and said, "Oh ya,
here is a disk with the instructions on it". This made it
very easy for me to install and use the products. I thought
this was service that goes above and beyond any service I
have received before. It came time for choosing my grain
for the next couple of batches. They brought me in the
back room and we opened buckets of different kinds of
grains. We put them side-by-side and tasted them which I
found very useful. I like Klages but wanted to try the
British 2-row and also look at the Belgian variety as well.
Well I just wanted to share my experiences with you. If
you want good service along with good prices give South
Bay Homebrew Supply a call at 800 608-2739. They do
mail order too. Standard disclaimer here. I have no
financial interest in SB Homebrew Supply, just a satisfied
customer.
PS. If any one knows of books in machine readable
formats I would be very interested. I am so appreciative
that my HBD comes to me everyday in an accessible
format. I better go back to lurking before the AI robot
cuts me off.
Keith Christian
XDCHRISTIAN@FULLERTON.EDU
The blind brewer who DOES IT BETTER IN THE DARK!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 09:35:47 +0000
From: Brian Gowland <B.Gowland@rhbnc.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Wheeler/Protz "Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home" Question
In HBD 1796, "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR@afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
wrote:
> I've now seen two (distinct, I think) assertions that this well-known
> book contains "actual brewery recipes" for a hundred or so British
> ales. The writers have suggested that the Wheeler/Protz recipes are
> the genuine ones from the commercial breweries themselves.
> I don't have the book with me right now, but the authors make several
> comments in the introduction (Wheeler's many years of experimentation
> and use of the computer, etc) that imply to me that this is not true.
> Also, I find it very unlikely many if any of the breweries would have
> divulged their recipes. My impression is ALL the recipes in Wheeler's
> book are simply the authors' attempts to clone these beers. Comments?
The answer is yes and no. I'll start by first mentioning "The Real
Ale Drinker's Almanac" by Roger Protz (RP). This book is in its third
edition and contains listings of all British breweries (as complete as
possible in 1993) and lists of their ales with details of ingredients and
also tasting notes. The tasting notes are written by RP but the ingredient
details are genuine as supplied by the breweries themselves. Some of the
breweries refused to disclose their ingredients, many only supplied the
basic outline of the recipe but a few (the minority) where quite complete.
By complete, I mean they mention the percentage weight of grains they
use, units of colour and bitterness, and the type of bittering and aroma
hops used.
Onto "Brew Your Own Real Ale At Home" by Graham Wheeler (GW) & RP.
RP wrote the introduction and the tasting notes for each recipe are taken
from the above mentioned "Almanac" as were the ingredient details that GW
used to create the recipes - and I stress that point, the recipes are
GW's and NOT recipes as supplied by the breweries. There are exceptions
to this, however, when the breweries provided exact details, GW has simply
taken these details and worked out weights of grains and hops to make 25
litres in the home environment. In these cases it is obvious that the
recipe is basically identical to that of those breweries. In other cases
when breweries have been less specific, it was neccessary for GW to play
around using various factors for colour and bitterness in order to try
to clone various brews - these recipes are approximations of the real
thing. GW hasn't had the time or effort to perfect every recipe and he
does state that few, if any, will produce an exact copy. What the recipes
should do, however, is get us close enough to allow us to fine tune them
ourselves.
Cheers,
Brian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 12:28:22 +0200
From: Fredrik.Stahl@mathdept.umu.se (Fredrik Stahl)
Subject: Re: Wheeler/Protz
In HBD #1796, "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" writes, concerning Wheeler/Protz
"Brew Your Own Real Ale at Home":
>I've now seen two (distinct, I think) assertions that this well-known
>book contains "actual brewery recipes" for a hundred or so British
>ales. The writers have suggested that the Wheeler/Protz recipes are
>the genuine on
>Also, I find it very unlikely many if any of the breweries would have
>divulged their recipes. My impression is ALL the recipes in Wheeler's
>book are simply the authors' attempts to clone these beers. Comments?
I've just come back from a trip to Scotland where I took the chance to buy
the book in question. The recipes are based on the information Roger Protz
has managed to get from the breweries for his book "Real Ale Almanac". (An
excellent book, by the way, now on it's third edition.)
The information in the almanac varies between breweries; some give only OG
and ABV, and many give information of percentages of malts and adjuncts,
hops and IBU:s. The reason that many brewers have given away this much is
by consumer pressure via CAMRA. The almanac has sold a lot and a brewery
that doesn't tell what goes into their beers can be viewed as suspicious.
As I understand it, what Graham Wheeler has done is to extrapolate from
this information, using a computer and his brewing experience to calculate
amounts of hops and so on. What he hasn't done is to actually brew the
recipes to find out if they are right. However, I believe he has got some
feedback from homebrewers who have and made some changes in newer editions.
I think that if you have a good experience in brewing ales, you might as
well buy the "Real Ale Almanac" and extrapolate from these figures
yourself. A cask conditioned ale always has a somewhat unreliable taste
that varies not only between casks but also during the consumption of one
cask. This is one of the charms of a living product but makes it a little
hard to get exactly on target. (Especially if you don't have any cask
conditioned ales in your own country to compare with!)
Of course, sometimes it's convenient to let someone else do the work for
you and just brew up a given recipe. As I understand it many of the British
homebrewers like Graham Wheeler's recipes, so they shouldn't be that far
off.
/Fredrik.Stahl@mathdept.umu.se
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 08:41:50 EDT
From: glidden@seward.nsc.com (Steve Glidden)
Subject: Brewpubs in the DC area.
Hi,
I am going to DC in 2 weeks and was wondering if anyone could tell me of any
good brewpubs and/or local bottled beers in the area? Are there any web sites
with a good listing?
Thanks for your time
regards,
Stephen Glidden
glidden@seward.nsc.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 09:31:35 -0400
From: joep@informix.com (HomeBrewer)
Subject: problems with secondary fermentation & high F.G.'s
Hi Eric,
<snip>
Eric> A couple questions:
Eric> 1. My current batch had a starting gravity of 1.053 and after a
Eric> violent primary, measured 1.020 when racked to the carboy after 3
Eric> days. one and a half weeks into the secondary, the gravity was
Eric> still at 1.020 and remained there at the 2 wk. point. I used
Eric> Wyeast London Ale with a starter and the primary went like a
Eric> house-a-fire after about 6-8 hrs. My local beer shop "guru"
Eric> thinks it must have "fermented out" fully during the primary and
Eric> he's probably right. I had expected the final gravity to be much
Eric> lower. A rule-of-thum seems to be 1/4 the starting gravity. My
Eric> guru thinks the final might be ok given what I put into the brew
Eric> pot.
Actually, I disagree. I had been having similar problems of high FG's.
The problem was that I didn't have enought oxygen in the wort for the
yeast to play with. Solution: *After* the wort has cooled and you've
pitched the yeast, vigorously pour the wort between two containers. I'm
talking about waist high to the the floor. Do this at least 4 times.
My results have been FG's of 1.028 or so down to about 1.010 or so. Of
course, YMMV and it will depend somewhat on what's in the brewpot.
Don't be afraid to splash the wort once the temp is down! It's how
you'll get the oxygen back in after boiling.
<snip>
Eric> So, I'm interested in hearing from others with similar
Eric> experiences about a) high final gravities, b) secondaries during
Eric> which nothing seems to happen except settling, c) problems of
Eric> letting the beer sit on the yeast for longer than two weeks, d)
Eric> problems with or how to remove small cream colored "astroids"
Eric> floating at the neck of the carboy during the secondary (they
Eric> settled to the bottom in my 1st batch).
Asteroids: Just siphon and ignore them. For the most part, they'll
stay in the carboy.
<snip>
Eric> Eric Palmer
joe.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Joe Pearl, Sr. Sales Engineer, Informix Software, Inc. |
| 8675 Hidden River Parkway, Tampa, FL, 33637 813-615-0616 |
| Opinions expressed are solely my own. |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| If the automobile had followed the same development as the computer, a |
| Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and |
| explode once a year killing everyone inside. -- Robert Cringely |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 09:36:00 -0400
From: joep@informix.com (Joe Pearl)
Subject: Double Boil/Skunking Cider
Hi Ray,
>>>>> On Mon, 31 Jul 95 14:47:00 PDT, Ray Robert <rayr@bah.com> said:
Ray> Hi All!
Ray> Had two quick questions.
Ray> 1. Getting ready to take the all-grain plunge but was unsure if I
Ray> could pull off the boil. I have a 20 quart pot. I was thinking of
Ray> doing two boils (same length of time) with half the hops
Ray> additions. Can this be done? Any practical experience would be
Ray> helpful.
Do all your hop additions (and any adjuncts (irish moss, ...) ) in the
first boil. It'll be necessary to take the second boil to the hot break
(usually about 20 minutes). No hops or anything other than wort in the
second boil. Keep in mind that you'll lose a lot to evaporation with
the double boil - I'm still getting used to that myself :).
<snip>
Ray> TIA for the info.
Ray> Robert Ray rayr@bah.com
joe.
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Joe Pearl, Sr. Sales Engineer, Informix Software, Inc. |
| 8675 Hidden River Parkway, Tampa, FL, 33637 813-615-0616 |
| For PGP key: send me email w/subject "send me pgp key" |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| I do not believe in an afterlife, although I am brining a change of |
| underwear. -- Woody Allen |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 9:42:10 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1@columbia.edu>
Subject: Aeration
In HBD #1796 Christopher.R.Vyhnal@Dartmouth.EDU (Christopher R. Vyhnal)
asks about aeration with an airstone:
>it seems to be an elegant solution to filtering microbes
>out of the air. how long and what ID is your coiled tube? have you ever
>had any problem batches? are there any problems with sanitizing the
>airstone?
The tubing is about 2 m long, 1 mm ID: It is the tubing that came with the
aquarium kit. The whole assembly is immersed in iodophor during the boil,
then it is connected to the pump and dried somewhat while I cool the wort.
I've never had any bacterial contamination, even in beers that have sat
around for 6 months and more. I do use large-to-very-large starters: The
yeast is grown either in the primary in 1/2 gal of wort (which is decanted
away before pitching) or on agar plates (3-5 large YPD-agar plates grown
to complete confluence).
[Note: I will be off the air for 3 weeks]
Pierre
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 9:06:23 CDT
From: MJones@swri.edu
Subject: Hop rates for partial boils?
I am about to embark on an Octoberfest using an extract recipe. I can only
perform partial boils due to the volume limitation of my 21 quart pot. In the
second issue of "Brew Your Own" magazine there is an article discussing the
Octoberfest style with both all-grain and extract recipes. What caught my
attention was a statement in the extract recipe section that recommended the
amount of hops be increased (perhaps doubled) if performing a 3-gallon instead
of a full 6-gallon boil. The reason for this was that the wort for a partial
boil was not as efficient in utilizing the hops.
I have not heard of this phenomena before and I wonder what the collective
wisdom of the HBD has to say on this.
Mark Jones
Southwest Research Institute
San Antonio, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 08:18:40 PDT
From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Stirring w/ Immersion Chiller
Tim states that stirring with an immersion chiller improves chilling
greatly and I agree. However, stirring is a pain in the butt and
because you have to open the lid to your kettle to do it, introduces
the possibility (however slight) of contamination. I solved this
problem by creating a motorized wort stirrer. I purchased a 150 RPM
continuous duty 110V gearmotor surplus for $7 and attached it to a
piece of plastic that sits on top of the keg. I made a stainless
steel paddle with a 1/4" SS rod and a 3"x5" rectangle of SS sheet
welded to it. The rod on the paddle is long enough that it sticks up
out of the kettle by about 4". I drilled a hole in my lid and attached
a shaft coupling to the motor shaft which is pointing down.
At the same time that I put my immersion chiller in the boil to
sanitize, I immerse the paddle in the wort as well. At the end of the
boil, I make the final hop additon, put on my kettle lid, inserting
the paddle rod into the hole in the lid. Then I tighten the set screw
on the shaft connector to secure the rod to the motor. I then begin
stirring without cooling water to mix in my final aroma hop addition
and 10 minutes later, turn on the chiller water.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM MOVING!!!!!
AFTER August 2nd please use: hollen@vigra.com
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 08:27:57 PDT
From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Putting on airs
>>>>> "Joe" == Joseph Fleming <Joseph.Fleming@gsa.gov> writes:
Joe> With all the extensive aeration systems discussed lately (O2
Joe> tanks, aeration stones, ect.) I was wondering about the efficacy
Joe> of the different methods. As I understand it, the carboy shake
Joe> method is insufficient. How about the "aeration wand" technique?
Joe> Do O2 tanks approach the point of diminishing returns (unless the
Joe> lab folks already have easy (read: free) access the equipment)?
Joe> Can anyone relate experiences where this massive aeration has
Joe> produced such a healthy ferment that it can be distinguished by
Joe> taste? Does fermentation begin *that* much more quickly than the
Joe> 6-12 hour norm? Or is this method done so that yeast recycling
Joe> will garner a more mutant-free product?
I am not a biologist, nor do I have any means of producing accurate
quantitative assessments of dissolved oxygen and/or yeast mutations.
I ferment in corny kegs and have been aerating by injecting welding O2
in through the liquid dip tube while filling up the keg with wort. I
then pressurize to 20psi and then rock the keg back and forth on my
knees for 5 minutes. My ferments start in about 4 hours and within 12
hours, I have large amounts of krausen coming out of my blowoff hose
and into the blowoff bucket. The results in the finished product have
been good enough to garner several first place awards in AHA
competitions and to continually produce excellent beer. I have just
changed over to using a 2 micron ss stone for oxygenation, but have
not been using it long enough to have any definitive results other
that to say it is at least as good as my prior method.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I AM MOVING!!!!!
AFTER August 2nd please use: hollen@vigra.com
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 95 09:14:00 PDT
From: Steve Armbrust <Steve_Armbrust@ccm.jf.intel.com>
Subject: Low carbonation problems
Recently I made an English-style bitter that used fairly standard
ingredients (British pale malt, British crystal) and Wyeast 1968 yeast.
For kicks, I did a two-stage infusion mash (122 and 158). The original
gravity was about 1062, which was a little higher than expected (I guess
I'm getting better at this mashing and sparging stuff), and the final
gravity was 1018.
Desiring a little lower carbonation, I primed with slightly less than
2/3 cup corn sugar. (I know, I read the post about measuring sugar by
weight instead of volume, but I've never had problems with this before.)
What I've got, after about five weeks in the bottle, is beer that tastes
great, but it's not as clear as other beers I've made (I used Irish Moss
in the boil), and it's almost but not quite flat. On the bottom of each
bottle is a thin layer of yeast that sticks rather well to the glass.
It doesn't pour out into the beer, and after adding water to the empty,
it takes two or three good shakes to clean it out of the bottle.
Has anyone seen this happen with the Wyeast 1968 yeast? I've used it
before without problems. Do you think that shaking up the bottles could
dislodge the yeast and get them working again? (I'll try that with a
few of them anyway.) Any other ideas on what could have caused the
problem?
Steve Armbrust
Steve_Armbrust@ccm.jf.intel.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 11:42:08 -0500
From: rlarsen@squeaky.free.org (Rich Larsen)
Subject: One Last Religion Post / Post Peeves
One last post on religion. I know I know, I just wanted to let the
collective know that I observed a "KOSHER" stamp on the bag of (I believe)
DeWolf Cosins Malt.
Shalom!
*********
A pet peeve about several (it seems a lot) recent postings. WATCH YOUR LINE
LENGTH! It is very annoying and difficult to
read lines
that
look like this. Watch that wrap-around please.
Now back to brewing...
=> Rich <rlarsen@squeaky.free.org>
________________________________________________________________________
Rich Larsen, Midlothian, IL. Also on HomeBrew University (708) 705-7263
Spice is the varity of life.
________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 13:15:18 -0400
From: TimFields@aol.com
Subject: RE Aeration equipment sanitizing
In #1796, Christopher.R.Vyhnal@Dartmouth.EDU (Christopher R. Vyhnal) quotes
Pierre:
>>> The airstone is at the end of a rigid wand connected to a long coiled
flexible tubing; the whole assembly is sanitized in iodophor but no attempt
is
made to sterile-filter the air. <<<
and then asks:
>have you ever had any problem batches? are
>there any problems with sanitizing the airstone?
I've used my aeration kit (pump, ss airstone- from Brewers Resources) for
four batches now. My fermentations may kick off a little faster, but so far
the diff is minimal. My main concern in getting it was to ensure complete
ferments - and in that it has been admirable. RE sanitizing: I rinse it well
with hot water, soak in iodophor, rinse again with more hot water, and then
immerse the stainess steel airstone in isopropol alcohol (91%) overnight.
This is pretty much the recomended procedurre from BR.
I do have one concern abt this process, and I think Pierre's comments may
resolve it. BR recommends sanitizing and storing the hose/ss airstone as a
single unit. The airstone is a bear to remove anyway (and also makes it
difficult to rinse out the hose). Because of the airstone, I find it
impossible to dry out the hose and that could lead to contamination. Even
hanging this thing up to dry wont let it drain because the airstone, in
effect, caps the hose and results in enough back-pressure that the droplets
wont drop. I'm going to use Pierre's suggestion and affix the airstone to
the end of a racking cane. This will require just a short piece of tubing and
result in an airstone unit that is easily removed from the cane and thus
easier to clean, sanitize, and DRY. the racking cane will clean and dry
well, and the airhose will drip dry ok without the stone to inhibit the
process.
RE filtering the air - I have no data to support it, but I like the idea of
using the inline filter that comes with my BR kit (filter available
separately). If there is any contamination from the pump, I'd hate for it to
be force-fed into my wort.
Std dislaimers re BR.
-Tim
Timfields@aol.com (till 8/8/95)
Timf@relay.com (after that)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 11:25:32 -0600
From: Jeff Stampes <jeff.stampes@Xilinx.COM>
Subject: Bones' Immersion Chilling
in #1796 bones described his efforts in stirring while immersion chilling.
I think this may be one of the cases where some homebrewers worry about
infection too much (No Bones, this is a not a shot your way!).
I toss my immersion chiller into the boil with 10 minutes left to sanitize
it. I stir it around a little to make sure that the parts not immediately
under-wort are sanitized as well. When I connect it to the water supply and
start chilling, I grab ahold of the wort chiller and just stir with that!
I don't worry about covering the wort at all. I generally get to a nice
cool pitching temp in 10-15 minutes. When pitching a big healthy starter,
I don't worry a lot about any nasties having time to get ahold of my
wort, and have remained infection free since '93! (Hmm..that could make
a nice slogan for my brewery operations :)
- -- Jeff Stampes -- Xilinx, Inc. -- Boulder, CO -- jeff.stampes@xilinx.com --
- -- Ultimate Frisbee...It's not just for dogs anymore. --
- -- Any fool can make bread out of grain...God intended it for beer! --
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 13:32:40 -0400
From: eamonn@chinook.physics.utoronto.ca (Eamonn McKernan)
Subject: Dave's sugar stuff/ RIMS thermistors
Just loved Dave's posting about priming sugar in HBD 1796. One thought
though: What about headspace? Consider a 1L PET bottle with 1/2" headspace
and a 250ml bottle with 1 1/2" headspace. Hey, I don't try and give my
bottles consistent headspace, and I often use different sizes of bottles
so this is not far-fetched. If one is really concerned about close control
of carbonation, these two bottles should have rather different levels of
CO2. Maybe 10% or so?
***
A summary of responses to my questions last week:
Dion says Hansen quick disconnects allow easy disassembly and don't leak.
He also sent me a diffent way to seal around a thermistor inside a tube
sealed with epoxy (I don't know the temperature limits for epoxy, nor it's
FDA rating):
" Regarding your thermistor. You may want to try this. Your
sizes may need to be different depending on the diameter of the brass
tubing you used. Get a 3/8" compression to 1/2" NPT fitting. Throw
out the ferrule. Get a "000" rubber stopper and cut off the bottom
third and throw away the top. Get a stainless steel washer which will
fit over the tube of the thermistor and grind it down until it will
fit in the nut of the compression fitting. Insert the washer in the
nut, force the stopper in the body of the fitting and screw the nut
and washer down tight. Take a small drill and drill a hole into the
stopper. Remove it, insert the thermistor into the stopper and then
re-assemble...
The thermistor is fitted into the tube
with epoxy and a little bead of epoxy built up on the end to form a
rounded tip to the tube.
J.B. Distributing sells Morris thermistor probes which are brazed shut
on the end if you don't like the epoxy idea. "
No one knew how to store copper. I guess drain it and store it dry. I imagine
if I filled it with an iodine based sanitizer it would just corrode
faster.
Don says plumbers GOOP is food grade. Again no max operating temperature.
Harry Covert wants to tie his stopper to the copper tube using wire.
Nick knows of a food grade high temp silicone rated to 204C. Probably hard to
find but worth the effort: contact GE Silcones 800-668-4644/5 about
product #'s RTV102/103/108/109.
Jay Reeves also found some: URA-BOND 24-HV from Resin
Technology Group, Inc. They have 2 sites: Easton, MA (508-230-8070) &
Germantown, WI (414-251-2275).
"The stuff has a temp range of -60C to 120C, tensile strength of 2000 PSI,
elongation of 800% (that's right!) and I can't find the coefficient of
expansion rating but I know it was good enough to keep a water-tight seal
with brass. Cure
time is 30 mins tack free, 30-40 mins handling strength, 15 mins @ 150F and
overnight @ room temp. It's also FDA approved."
Jay also told me that his company manufactures computer controlled water
management devices, and they couldn't get a PID algorithm to work. They use
proportional control (heating rate proportional to the difference between
actual and desired temperature). Perhaps all my fiddling with PID control
will lead to naught, but that isn't gonna stop me. I'm having fun! Too bad
my Masters (mini-)thesis is due soon...
Yours in beer,
Eamonn
p.s. Is there a patron saint of brewing?
eamonn@atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca
"One more time: Speed does NOT kill. Speed isn't the problem; speed is the
objective. If we weren't in a hurry, we wouldn't need freeways. We'd walk."
-Jim Kenzie on highway speed limits
------------------------------
Date: 01 Aug 1995 10:48:10 PDT
From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA@chevron.com>
Subject: Temp Controller
From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade)
To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR
Subject: Temp Controller
Date: 1995-08-01 12:32
Priority:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
doug jones asks about ac temp controllers. i have used a hunter airstat and
have been satisfied. cools down to 40f. freezer plugs right into the
controller, and the controller into the outlet. unfortunately mine got wet
with the heavy rains lately and i have to replace it (and i hope the
replacement comes before hurricane erin hits town later this week - would
hate to ride out a hurricane with warm beer). these are available at heart's
in orlando for $30 (800-392-8322) plus s&h - no financial interest of my
own, blah, blah, blah.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 13:05:58 -0500
From: "J. Pat Martinez" <martinez@puccini.crl.umn.edu>
Subject: Re: Temp controller
Hi,
I purchased a temp. controlling unit made by Honeywell for about $35. I had to
wire it in to replace the existing fridge temp controller. It wasn't to
difficult and it works great. Has temp range from at least 0 to 90 F.
I also recently learned of another temp controller made by Johnson Controls. It
sounds like it's also a good unit. A319 line voltage electronic temp control
($30-35) Model # A319ABC-24-01. Has solid-state sensor that can be remote
mounted so no need to worry about capillary lengths or breakage. Temp range -20
to 100 F. Differential can be set from 1 to 30 F.
Both of these units have the benefit of low cost and they have a better
temperature range than the Hunter airstat. The only draw back to these units is
that you have to do some electrical work to hook them up. Nevertheless, I
hooked mine up and I know very little about wiring. I just asked a few
electrical types for advice.
If your interested in any more details about either of these temp units, just
let me know and I'll try and send you more info about model #'s and stuff.
Pat M.
% J. Pat Martinez % martinez@puccini.CRL.umn.edu
% Univ. of Minnesota % Phone: (612) 625-2221
% Dept. of Plant Pathology % Fax: (612) 625-9728
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 95 15:20:00 PDT
From: "Bessette, Bob" <bessette@msmailgw.uicc.com>
Subject: Strike temperature variation w/Gott Cooler...
Fellow HBDers,
I usually do all-grain batches using a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a
Phil's Phalse Bottom but recently I tried using a friend's Gott cooler. What
I usually do is get the water temperature up to approximately 170F and then
dole it in my bucket and then dole in the grains. Usually at the temperature
of 170F I get a temperature after doling in grains of about 152. This time
with the Gott cooler I got about 146F. I am using around 3 gallons of 170F
water and 9 lbs of 2 Row Pale Malt with 1/2 lb of Carapils in the mash. Can
anyone else out there from experience give me a good idea of what
temperature I should be shooting for with the water to get it at 152F in a
Gott cooler of this size. I am planning on making another batch tomorrow
night and would appreciate any quick and experienced responses you may
have...
Rgds,
Bob Bessette Unitrode I.C. Corporation
Systems Analyst 7 Continental Blvd
Information Systems Dept Merrimack, NH 03054
Email Address: (W) 603-429-8553
bessette@uicc.com FAX)603-424-3460
------------------------------
Date: 01 Aug 1995 11:48:11 PDT
From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA@chevron.com>
Subject: priming
From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade)
To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR
Subject: priming
Date: 1995-08-01 13:27
Priority:
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i enjoyed dave draper's missive on the virtues of priming by weight, and i
plan to share this with our brewclub. thanks for the effort on this one.
i can recall some wide variation in carbonation in the old days (when i used
to prime by volume), although i have no data to support the conclusion that
this was the cause.
i had hoped to find data in dave's article that actually compared various
weights of the same volume of the same type of sugar to determine the
variation in the volume measurement. does anyone have this data?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 95 16:09:00 -0400
From: Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu>
Subject: Frankenmuth wheat for malt
In HBD 1796, Rob Lauriston said
> Gambrinus also makes a wheat malt that varies according to the wheat
> available. There was a local farmer grwoing a genetically
low-protein
> wheat called Frankenmuth and it made the best wheat malt I've ever >
> seen, but that was the exception, unfortunately.
Isn't it fun to meet an old friend thousands of miles from home?
Frankenmuth is one of the standard soft white winter wheats bred and
grown here in Michigan. (Michigan State University breeders name their
wheats after old Michigan milling towns. Frankenmuth is one of these,
and also home of the Frankenmuth Brewery). It is the one I sang the
praises of in HBD 1789. I used it in the ginger wit I reported on and
have malted it with good success for weizens. I wish the maltsters
would discover it. Michigan farmers could use the business and brewers
could use the fine malt.
Jeff Renner in Ann Arbor, Michigan c/o nerenner@umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 95 10:54:00 MST
From: "Fleming, Kirk R., Capt" <FLEMINGKR@afmcfafb.fafb.af.mil>
Subject: The Cost of Not Sparging
In #1796 Spencer talked about yields vs. sparge and mash liquor volumes:
> ...suppose you want to make a 1.045 wort, and you want an initial
> boil volume of 3 gallons. You need 1.075 (5/3 * 45 = 75) in the
> kettle. This corresponds to about 1.6 qt/lb, yielding 1.2 qt/lb
> into the kettle. To get 3 gallons (12 qt), you'll need to use
> 12/1.2 = 10 lbs of malt and 1.6*10 = 16 qt = 4 gal of mash water
I assume this is a 5 gal batch, reducing 3 gal of kettle stew to 2 gal
over a 60-90 min boil, then adding to 3 gal of chilled water for 5 gal
total. I compared Spencer's requirement of 10 lbs of malt with what I'd
need using my normal 50-50 split of mash-sparge water. Ans: 7.6 lbs.
My procedure is:
Mash liquor: 7.6 lbs * 1.5 qt/lb = 11.4 qt (for mash thickness)
11.4 qt + 3 qt (under false bottom) = 14.4 qt (3.6 gal)
I want 5 gal in the fermenter, plus 1 gal to boil off, plus about .2 gal
for loss in the hops and hoses. 3.6 gal comes from the mash less about
.8 gal stuck in the grain:
(5 + 1 + .2) - 3.6 + .8 + .2 = 3.6 gal (sparge liquor)
In practice I split the mash and sparge requirements about evenly, so in
this case I'd go in with 3.5 gal mash water, and put about 4 in the sparge
tank. I'd then shoot for about 6 1/4 gal at the start of the boil.
To me, Spencer's bottom line is: 10 - 7.6 = 2.4 lbs of additional
grain. At as much as $1.20/lb for British pale malt, we're looking at
at most $3 more per batch. But, for the 3 extra bucks you obviate
the need for a sparge tank and save 20-60 min in sparge time (depends
on how long you'd take to sparge 3.5 gal). OTOH, this could represent a
25-30% increase in the cost per batch. Comments solicited, as always!
KRF Colorado Springs
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 95 11:28:54 EST
From: Tom_Williams_at_RAY__REC__ATLANTA@ccmail.eo.ray.com
Subject: Stirring w/ Immersion Chiller
In HBD #1796 Tim Laatcsh writes about stirring the wort to improve the
performance of his immersion chiller.
Tim, if I understand what you are saying, you let the chiller sit
still, and stir the wort around it with a spoon. I think you can get
an even better improvement in performance if you use the *chiller* to
do the stirring. The heat transfer rate increases due to the increase
in velocity of wort over the chiller tubes. Moving the chiller around
should do a better job of this than stirring with a spoon. I recently
cooled 4.5 gal of wort from boiling to 80F in 8.5 minutes using this
technique. You should be able to do even better, since your tap water
is apparently colder than it is here in Atlanta (23 straight days over
90F and counting).
To the question of infection risk, someone (I forget who) once posted
that they had cut holes in a pot lid for the vertical chiller tubes.
He then was able to move the chiller around while keeping the pot
covered. I just do it with the pot open. I think that the risk is
small since the time that the wort is exposed to the air is short.
After reading Charlie Scandrett's fascinating post "Thermodynamic
Sulphur Chillout", I believe that the immersion chiller design may be
better than the CF design for minimizing DMS formation, since with CF
chillers, some of the wort remains at DMS producing temperatures while
waiting its turn to be chilled. With the immersion chiller, all of
the wort is chilled simultaneously, and the heat transfer process is
faster when the wort is hotter. In other words, the wort cools from
212F to 158F much faster than from 134F to 80F (assuming the cooling
water inlet temperature is constant).
Tom Williams Raytheon Engineers & Constructors
twilliams@ccgate.ueci.com Norcross, Georgia, USA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 16:57:25 -0400
From: rhampo@ford.com (Rich Hampo)
Subject: Low extraction
Howdy All,
Well, I made the step to all grain and I am having a small problem.
I brew mostly using tips and techniques from Miller, and use a Gott
cooler with slotted copper manifold (1/2 inch, slots every 8 mm or so)
as a lauter tun. The problem is that I am not getting good extraction.
I got better extraction using a freakin' colander when doing a partial mash....
Here is an example - Weizen recipe from Miller:
2.5 lb us 6-row malt
5 lb malted wheat
grain cracked on Glatt mill (The store has one and I love it....)
The wheat was cracked a the widest setting - hulls cracked open but
not ground to dust.
The 6-row I cracked at about 3/4 setting. Got a good crush also.
Heated 9 qt water to 122, added grist,ph OK , 45 min protein rest at 122.
Raised temp to 150, conversion rest for 2 hours at 150-141F.
Poured/scooped into lauter tun, underlet the manifold through
up tube,(then corked it so as to not break vacum) and sparged.
Sparged at rate of about 1 qt per 1.5 minutes to collect 4.5 gallons
(I only have a 21 qt pot). Boiled, hopped, chilled to 75, checked
SG and it was only 1.034!
Miller says that it should be about 1.048. Somewhere I lost 1/3 of the
fermentables....
The Brew was bubbling happily when I checked it this morning at
T+6 hours, so my beer is not RUINED, but only WEAK.
I know I undersparged, but the last runnings I collected were < 1.000
hot, had virtually no taste. Also, the spent grains looked empty
and were not sweet either.
My hydrometer never seemed off for my partial extract brews, and measures
dead on for cool water.
So the $20,000 dollar question is: WHAT GIVES! Where is the other 1/3 of the
sugar?
Sorry for the long post, but I was up till 1AM last night brewing/cleaning
and I am kind of cranky. TIA to anyone out there who can help!
Best Regards,
Richard Hampo
H & H Brewing Ltd.
Ford Research Lab
captain@vulcan.srl.ford.com
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1797, 08/02/95
*************************************
-------
