Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
HOMEBREW Digest #1771
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/07/03 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1771 Mon 03 July 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Vinegar bacteria (Domenick Venezia)
Hop Plugs (Frank J Dobner +1 708 979 5124)
Re: Seltzers? (Steve Dempsey)
Granny Brings Home the Lacto (Kirk R Fleming)
Sour (before aging) imperial stout (Lenny Garfinkel)
Re-bottling ("pratte")
Mashing (again!) (John Shearer)
Blowoff bucket sanitizer (Dion Hollenbeck)
Hydrogen peroxide for aeration? (Domenick Venezia)
All-grain time/Moss/Seltzers/Harvesting Yeast (Kinney Baughman)
Bad taste from keg hose (John Hilten)
Elvis, Bow Ties, and fluid mechanics (ugh) (LimaWiskey)
Vinegar washing of yeast (Steve Alexander)
Iodophor and Mashtun Help (Eric Marzewski)
Mittelfreuh Hops (Jeff Hewit)
Kegging (djfitzg)
Laaglander malt extract (Pierre Jelenc)
bulkhead fittings (Glen Hathaway)
missed 1769/aol goofed (Spliffo)
Root Beer Beer (Christopher Pickslay)
Dortmund 2 - Part 1 (A. J. deLange)
Dortmund 2 - Part 2 (A. J. deLange)
Re: Clean out my blow off hose! (Dion Hollenbeck)
******************************************************************
* POLICY NOTE: Due to the incredible volume of bouncing mail,
* I am going to have to start removing addresses from the list
* that cause ongoing problems. In particular, if your mailbox
* is full or your account over quota, and this results in bounced
* mail, your address will be removed from the list after a few days.
*
* If you use a 'vacation' program, please be sure that it only
* sends a automated reply to homebrew-request *once*. If I get
* more than one, then I'll delete your address from the list.
******************************************************************
#################################################################
#
# YET ANOTHER NEW FEDERAL REGULATION: if you are UNSUBSCRIBING from the
# digest, please make sure you send your request to the same service
# provider that you sent your subscription request!!! I am now receiving
# many unsubscribe requests that do not match any address on my mailing
# list, and effective immediately I will be silently deleting such
# requests.
#
#################################################################
Send articles for __publication_only__ to homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com
(Articles are published in the order they are received.)
Send UNSUBSCRIBE and all other requests, ie, address change, etc.,
to homebrew-request@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com, BUT PLEASE NOTE that if
you subscribed via the BITNET listserver (BEER-L@UA1VM.UA.EDU),
then you MUST unsubscribe the same way!
If your account is being deleted, please be courteous and unsubscribe first.
Please don't send me requests for back issues - you will be silently ignored.
For "Cat's Meow" information, send mail to lutzen@novell.physics.umr.edu
ARCHIVES:
An archive of previous issues of this digest, as well as other beer
related information can be accessed via anonymous ftp at
ftp.stanford.edu. Use ftp to log in as anonymous and give your full
e-mail address as the password, look under the directory
/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer directory. AFS users can find it under
/afs/ir.stanford.edu/ftp/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer. If you do not have
ftp capability you may access the files via e-mail using the ftpmail
service at gatekeeper.dec.com. For information about this service,
send an e-mail message to ftpmail@gatekeeper.dec.com with the word
"help" (without the quotes) in the body of the message.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 17:59:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
Subject: Vinegar bacteria
I have received 3 responses to my request for pH readings on vinegar.
>From cdewen@ids.net (Charles D. Ewen)
>
>As a "calibration vinegar", I tried Heinz's Distilled White (label
>says, "5% acidity"). I got a 2.7pH. This was an old bottle,
>though, with some sort of precipitate floating in it. I wondered
>about contamination.
>
>Second sample: IGA white distilled vinegar. Fresh bottle (label
>says "reduced with water to 5% acidity") - got a 2.6pH.
From: flemingk@usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
>
>Yesterday or so you asked via HBD for pH meter readings of household
>vinegar. I didn't have any Heinz brand white vinegar, but I measured
>a "Garden Club" brand white distilled and got a stable pH = 2.45.
From: Michael_Kril_at_~PRIBUF01@ccmail.bms.com
>
>While I don't have any vinegar at work, I had the next best thing;
>glacial acetic acid which is 100%. I diluted it to 5% (usually what
>vinegar is) and read the pH. It was 2.52 which is close enough to what
>you got from your test strip.
This is great the consensus is amost exactly pH 2.5, and I'd say based
solely on pH that 5% Distilled white vinegar is suitable for yeast washing.
However ...
From: DCB2%OPS%DCPP@bangate.pge.com (David Boe)
>
>As you know, yeast is a fungus that converts sugar to alcohol. Well,
>there's another bacteria (can't remember it's name) that converts
>alcohol to acetic acid (vinegar). Some of that bacteria may be
>present in *your* vinegar. It's possible that the vinegar has been
>pasturized and the process, I believe, is an aerobic process but just
>the same, why tempt fate?
A quick trip to the micro textbook yields, Acetobacter--A. aceti, A.
orleanse, and A. Schuezenbachi. Acetic acid bacteria are STRICTLY
AEROBIC, gram-negative rods, that oxidize ethanol to acetaldehyde and
ozidize the acetaldehyde to acetic acid. They grow as films at the
liquid/air interface. Also interesting is that the ability of these
critters to incompletely oxidize sugars is exploited in the commercial
production of ascorbic acid (vitamin C). They are used to produce
sorbose from sorbitol, which is then used in the synthesis of ascorbic acid.
My guess is that using DISTILLED vinegar would be safe as the heat of
distillation would kill the bacteria, but this assumes that the
distillation employs heat, and I suppose it could be a vacuum
distillation. I'll do a quick microscopic examination of new Heinz 5%
distilled white vinegar and if I see something I'll post it, but I
doubt I will find anything. I have streaked a plate with the vinegar
and will see if anything grows. It may also be possible to boil vinegar
(covered) for 5-10 minutes without reducing the pH much and this would
take care of the problem. More investigation is warranted. Perhaps we
can impose on our original investigators to boil, covered, a bit of
vinegar and report on the before and after pH?
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia@zgi.com
------------------------------
Date: 29 Jun 95 10:46:00 -0500
From: fjdobner@intgp1.att.com (Frank J Dobner +1 708 979 5124)
Subject: Hop Plugs
Since the discussion about hop plugs has surfaced again recently,
this is just a little tip for those people finding hop plugs
difficult to get through the neck of a carboy.
We received an electric carving knife for a wedding present years ago.
I find that this knife works perfectly in cutting the hop plugs
in half (even when frozen) creating two half-moon shaped pluglets.
These pluglets can be pushed rather easily through the neck of a
carboy. Please use a cutting board! Now you have several occasions
to use that carving knife throughout the year rather than once
a year at Thanksgiving.
Frank Dobner
Aurora, Illinois
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 21:47:01 -0700
From: Steve Dempsey <steved@ptdcs2.intel.com>
Subject: Re: Seltzers?
In HBD #1768 Martin Lodahl said of force-carbonated
non-malt based beverages:
>What I've done is add the juice of a couple of
>lemons to about three gallons of drinking water chilled down to near
>freezing, then "jam it" with CO2 at pressures ranging from 10-40 psi.
>The results have always been the same: A crisp, refreshing beverage
>that doesn't hold its carbonation worth beans. Any suggestions?
More pressure, colder temperature, and let it sit for a few days
before dispensing. Plan on losing most of thd gas; add more so
there is relatively more left after losing some percentage. Keeping
it cold is obvious -- just like beer, CO2 is more soluble at lower
temperature. Keeping the liquid line short and cold also helps.
And I don't know the theory behind the extra time, it just seems
more stable after sitting a few days than trying to serve immediately
after carbonating. You can always add some of that glycol based
artificial heading agent to make it look like you have more bubbles
than you really do :-).
======================================================
Steve Dempsey Intel Corporation
<steved@ptdcs2.intel.com> 5200 Elam Young Pkwy
+1 503 642 0602 Hillsboro, OR 97124-6497
PTD CAD Pole: AL4-2-E2 MS: AL4-57
======================================================
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 22:47:47 -0600
From: flemingk@usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: Granny Brings Home the Lacto
Here's one for your amusement. I've instituted a program wherein all dry
grain handling is done in the garage only--no grain gets in the house that
isn't soaked and in a container thats been hosed free of all dust. Since
I do open fermentation in the same room I mash in, this is important to
me.
Okay so I'm rooting around in the pantry where I keep some of my brewing
gear and I seen a small black plastic vial labelled "Ornabac", sitting
on a shelf next to a bunch of other new bird-related bottles, etc.
In a white-on-blue section of the label the word "lactobacillus" jumps
out at me, and I find Ornabac is a food additive Granny brought over to
the house for our Budgie (the one our cat brought home one day from some
one elses house, apparently).
Yeah, the label reads "Contains lactobacillus cultures and Vitamin B.
Improves palatability of food." On the side it says, " Contains
condensed grain fermentation solubles."
Anyway, I'm very happy to have a 15 g vial of this sitting in the house.
It looks kind of like finely ground Irish moss, and it smells like nothing
I've ever smelled (except "trouble"). Are there any bird enthusiasts out
there that know *exactly* what this is? I am NOT amused.
KRF Colorado Springs
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 13:23:23 +0300 (IDT)
From: Lenny Garfinkel <lenny@zeus.datasrv.co.il>
Subject: Sour (before aging) imperial stout
I prepared a partial mash imperial stout using Dave Miller's recipe (I
think in Brewing the World's Great Beers). Everything went fine. I
added the unwashed sediment from the secondary fermentations of two
batches which I bottled the day prior and kept refrigerated.
Fermentation went well. Active by 12 hours, krausen down by about two
days. I transferred to secondary after three days and left it there for
three weeks. I tasted some of the stuff which I racked to secondary and
it was undrinkable. No problem, Miller says to age the stuff 12 weeks.
I bottled a couple hours ago and the stuff is not nearly so bad.
However, it has an aftertaste which I would describe as sour. I measure
the pH with Merck pH strips and it is about 4.5. I just brought a sample
of the yeast to my lab for a microscopic exam and it is not
contaminated. There may be the occasional bacterium, but this is NOT a
contaminated culture. The yeast look fine. I'll plate some out to test
for viability.
My question: does IMperial Stout go through a sour phase? Of course,
I'll wait another couple of months before passing final judgement. I'm
just curious.
Lenny
_________________________________________________________________
Dr. Leonard Garfinkel | Internet: lenny@zeus.datasrv.co.il
Bio-Technology General | Office Phone: 972-8-381256
Kiryat Weizmann | Home Phone: 972-8-451505
Rehovot, Israel | FAX: 972-8-409041
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 08:05:40 EST
From: "pratte" <PRATTE@GG.csc.peachnet.edu>
Subject: Re-bottling
A question to all:
Several members of our homebrew club recently suggested that I enter
one of my beers in an upcoming contest. This is that (IMO) God-
awful spruce beer that I have had for almost two years (they actually
think it taste good). The problem is that, while I have about 15
beers left, only 3 of them are in unmarked brown bottles. Is there a
way to transfer the beer from marked brown bottles to unmarked ones?
If I do, will it greatly affect the taste of a beer that has been
aging for 1.7 years (If so, will it make it better so that I might
want to drink it)?
TIA
John
________________________________________________________________
Dr. John M. Pratte pratte@gg.csc.peachnet.edu
Clayton State College Office (404)961-3674
Morrow, GA 30260 Fax (404)961-3700
________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 08:30:07 -0400
From: jds@equinox.shaysnet.com (John Shearer)
Subject: Mashing (again!)
Good morning all!
First, my thanks to Chris Barnhart for his plans to build my own Roller
Mill. Now a few comments: WOW, it looks great! I have already started to
compile the materials. I will disagree with him on one point. He said his
original motivation was to build a 'Malt Mill' (retail ~$130) but to save
money. Well, IMHO his home made mill is _much_ better than a 'Malt Mill',
and costs around $60 (assuming you have a sufficient supply of scrap in the
garage - which I do). Chris, if you have more copies, I think you should
repost (now with my endorsement:-) and see if more people want them.
(remember, he is doing this out of the kindness of his home brewing heart)
So, my real question: How 'bout this for a mash schedule? (5 gal batch)
Mash the base malt in a plastic bucket with a copper sparging manifold (154F
until conversion). Then add a quantity of boiling water to stop the enzymes
(1 gal?) and the specialty grains. Stir well, let sit 10 mins and sparge.
Does this sound OK? Questions? Comments? (If this has been answered
recently, could someone please just recap for me or tell me which digest #
it was in?)
Well, I'm off to work on my Roller Mill again!
Yours in brewing,
john
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 95 07:42:40 PDT
From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Blowoff bucket sanitizer
I use a blowoff tube down into a bucket of sanitizer solution. I have
at times used a solution of CTSP and currently Iodophor as the liquid
in the bucket. Unfortunately the iodophor gives up the ghost before
the primary ferment is done. I am slightly worried about having a
non-lethal to bacteria/yeast liquid in the bucket.
What do other people use and why?
thanks,
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 11:16:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
Subject: Hydrogen peroxide for aeration?
There was quite a "hydrogen peroxide for sanitation" thread in 1994, and
some discussions in 1992 and 1993, but I found only a single mention
of using hydrogen peroxide as a way to increase aeration. This was
from Richard Childers (still out there Richard?) on Fri, 20 Aug 93:
"... but I'd like to note that hydrogen peroxide can also be used to
increase the oxygen content of water one uses on house plants."
and also:
"I'd guess this depends on the concentration. It seems possible to me that
as the hydrogen peroxide dissolved into solution, it would become too weak
to kill yeasts en masse, but still sufficient to oxygenate the solution ..."
If you're still out there Richard I'd like to hear about using H2O2 as
a means to increase the oxygen content of wort or water.
Perhaps the chemists in the group can help out here. It seems that there
must be some way to get all that extra oxygen in a bottle of USP H2O2
safely into solution as O2. As an experiment I envision pouring a bottle of
USP H2O2 into a few gallons of brewing water in a 5 gallon plastic
polypin that has been collapsed to provide expansion room for excess O2,
then letting it sit for a few days. If you did this in an open
container the H2O2 would quickly decompose and the extra O2 would leak
out. It seems that in a sealed container the O2 would tend to go into
solution. My problem with the idea is this, if H2O2 is liberating O2
then isn't the solution acidifying over time? And finally, wort is
weakly acidic, and it seems that the excess H+ and O (the valence of
the liberated oxygen escapes me--actually the molecular structure of
H2O2 confuses me--there seems to be too many bonds and too few atoms
if it's a covalent creature) would tend to marry and make water, H2O.
Finally, perhaps there is a way to combine the sanitizing effect and
the oxygenating effect of hydrogen peroxide. Any ideas on what would
happen if one poured a volume of H2O2 into your cooled, racked, UNPITCHED
wort, fitting it with an airlock and letting it sit a enough time (how
long?) to decompose the H2O2 before pitching? Would the H2O2 keep the
wort from getting infected while at the same time oxygenating it?
"Brewing beer is far more exciting when it is both a hobby AND DANGEROUS!"
Apologies to Charles (Steve) Jackson.
Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia@zgi.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 14:15:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kinney Baughman <BAUGHMANKR@conrad.appstate.edu>
Subject: All-grain time/Moss/Seltzers/Harvesting Yeast
Hey ya'll,
A couple of comments:
RE: the time it takes to brew all-grain.
I wrote an article for the first special issue of Zymurgy that describes
how you can brew two batches of all-grain beer in about the same time it
takes to brew one. I called it "Stagger Step Brewing". The key is to
understand that much of the time spent brewing all-grain beer is spent
waiting for the processes to finish. So, while waiting for the first
batch to mash, start putting together the ingredients for your second
batch. While waiting for the first batch to boil, mash the second.
While waiting for the first batch to sparge, boil the second. While
chilling the first batch, sparge the second. You get the idea. It's a
busy afternoon brewing if you choose to go this route but if you plan a
little in advance, you may find it worthwhile. I always brew two
batches of beer at once.
Troussos is having problems with using Irish Moss:
>I've been brewing for sometime now and can't seem to completely eliminate
the
>chill haze. I use Irish Moss and have modified the amount of time I boil
>the Iish Moss from 1 - 2 minutes to 20 - 30 minutes. But no success. Any
>suggestions on what I should do or add to eliminate the haze ???
Did you rehydrate the Irish moss before tossing it into the boil? It's
a necessary step.
My old buddy Martin asks about seltzers:
>I've just started experimenting with using my kegging gear to make
>seltzers, and I'm sure there are people out there who do this
>successfully already. What I've done is add the juice of a couple of
>lemons to about three gallons of drinking water chilled down to near
>freezing, then "jam it" with CO2 at pressures ranging from 10-40 psi.
>The results have always been the same: A crisp, refreshing beverage
>that doesn't hold its carbonation worth beans. Any suggestions?
My best success with seltzers doesn't involve adding lemon juice.
Instead I peel the rind from a lemon or a lime or an orange, tie it in
a hop bag and toss it into the a five gallon corny keg. (The flavor of
the rind infused seltzers is remarkably close to Perrier. I could
never get that kind of flavor when I used squeezed juice.) Put the keg
in a refrigerator and force carb at 40 p.s.i. for 3 days. Unlike what
I do with beer, I try to shake the C02 into suspension when making
seltzers. I'll do this 4 or 5 times a day. Release the head pressure
and start dispensing at around 10 p.s.i. I don't usually remove the
rind until the keg is empty.
As for keeping the carbonation in the water, I've found you must keep
the keg cold. When I do so, I'm pleased with the level of carbonation.
Have you been taking the kegs out of your fridge after carbonating them?
The reason I ask, is that we tried serving selzers at Tumbleweed (now
Cottonwood) and had no success whatsoever when we kept the kegs at room
temperature.
Finally, as for harvesting yeast, I apologize for the small plug for
one of my products but harvesting yeast with a BrewCap couldn't be
easier. Just drain the yeast from one fermenter into another, from
one anaerobic vessel to another. The yeast never touches another
container and contamination is minimized as a consequence. Been doing
it for years.
Cheers!
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kinney Baughman | Beer is my business and
baughmankr@conrad.appstate.edu | I'm late for work.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 16:09:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: John Hilten <jhilten@pioneer.uspto.gov>
Subject: Bad taste from keg hose
I recently replaced one of the liquid lines of my corni' keg
setup. As any homebrewer I am always overly anal about
sanitizing so I feel confident that sanitation is not my problem
(disclaimer: I am rarely incorrect. Take my word for it. Don't
ask my wife.). However when I bellied up to get my first beer it
tasted rubbery. Subsequent beers (within the same hour) were
fine. Days later the first beer again has the rubbery taste. If
I poured out the first half glass-the remaining glasses would be
fine. In the past I have used the clear (I think its vinyl
hoses) with no problems. The new hose was a braided beverage
dispensing type hose. The kind one typically sees with soda
dispensers. Obviously (don't flame if I am wrong) the problem is
the material of the hose. The obvious solution is to go back to
the clear vinyl hoses (quickly-I am tired of wasting half a glass
of beer). What I want to know is what went wrong? It is a
BEvERage dispensing hose.
Thanks in advance, jsh
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 17:12:09 -0400
From: LimaWiskey@aol.com
Subject: Elvis, Bow Ties, and fluid mechanics (ugh)
Brewers:
I would like to comment on the bowtie effect. The aliens told me - and
Elvis looked good . He's lost wieght.
What CAPT Kirk has stumbled across is a steady-state
solution to the Stokes-Navier equations of fluid flow in a
viscous fluid. In particular, this series of non-linear
differential equations can be approximated in the Laplace
domain as a series of 0-root terminators for the convection
resulting from stable conditions in a symmetrical container
(or-nearly symmetric depending on the divergence induced by
the surface tension effect and molecular bond contribution
of the compounds present. It gets nasty with organics).
Anyway - our good brewer has discovered that given a stable
(not unchanging - but sloooooow to change) environment, the
release of gas resulting from CO2 (excited surface cooling )
production causes minute changes in the temperature gradient
between top and bottom. Also, the slight agitation is almost
enough to keep density layer boundaries from forming within
the fluid which would have otherwise dampened the cooling
effect. The slight cooling produces distinct repeatable
convection currents in which the yeast cells find themselves
statistically congregated . Deposition results in a
geometric pattern .
The occurrence means that you have a very nice environment
for your beer. If you have this visitation - then you're
going a long way to make the generation of yeasties you're
using happy. GOOD WORK> Of course, this would also occur in
a stable oven of 130F so maybe this is not the golden fleece
of brewing.
I am trying a brew now in a vessel with an aspect ration of
.333 as this I believe will produce a triad sort of pattern.
(NU-Clear Beer. Get Upwind and Drink 'em 'till you glow.)
I'm pretty sure of the math - not so sure of my brew.
I have seen these solutions in the past using supecooled
nitrogen as a medium for the deposition of an ablative
material on a carbon shell. The trouble was the patterns
emerging as I had wanted an even deposition. Solution: use an atomized
oil-bourne solution to avoid this
flow problem. (fluorine degradent deposition. or - SUN IN A
BOX).
Cyro and beer - now there's a combination. Come over
sometime and we'll compare nitrogen burns. Makes it look
like sharkskin. (take that - you vegimite brewing aussies.
I fell for that vile goo once. No thanks - I'll stick to
burnt tar and cellophane).
Maybe one of the aero folks from WA on the board is a better
fluid mechanic and can comment on the geometry induced
effects - any of the nacelle folks here ? 777 ? Maximizing
inducted thrust ? Laminar flow in a particulate medium
(soot) ?
Limawiskey@aol.com
-Na honey, - them boys in the blue suits at the table are
pilots. Those guys swilling beer at the bar are Marine Corps
Aviators.
jdsprague
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 17:16:50 -0400
From: Steve Alexander <stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com>
Subject: Vinegar washing of yeast
Is common grocery vinegar free of the bacteria that produced the
acetic acid in the first place ? The technique of using vinegar to
wash yeast might be a great way to cause an infection in your next
batch if not.
Steve Alexander
stevea@clv.mcd.mot.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 22:32:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Eric Marzewski <ca385a19@nova.umuc.edu>
Subject: Iodophor and Mashtun Help
On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, Eric Marzewski wrote:
> Iodophor and mashtuns?? - What's the skinny??
>
> Yes, Iodophor is exactly what your looking for. Use 1/2 oz per 5 gal.
> water for the right ppm. I suggest using a bucket with Iodophor as your
> sanitizing solution. Just dip stuff in it or leave racking tubes, spoons
> or bottle caps in it. Pull them out and shake them off when you need them.
> If you use the right ratio (ppm) it is a no rinse and a great one! Also,
> you can put some in a spray bottle and leave a rag (clean) in your sanitizer
> for quick applications.
>
> Sabco has a great s/steel false bottom ($30), make sure you get the one
> with hinges. The other one is only a screen w/ a rubber gasket. It is
> way too weak. The hinged version fits in most 1/2 barrels well and is
> really sturdy. You can also either gently heat your mash tun or jacket
> it with an insulator. Most of your conversion is within the first
> minutes and a small drop in temp won't matter much. I choose to heat mine
> and recirculate with a pump, during rest and later for clear runnings!
> Look in Brewing Techniques for other sources, I think Liberty Supply
> (home brew shop) had a couple more screens available.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Eric Marzewski
> ca385a19@nova.umuc.edu
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jun 1995 22:59:56 -0400
From: jhewit@freenet.vcu.edu (Jeff Hewit)
Subject: Mittelfreuh Hops
Robert Hops (great name for a brewer!) asked if anybody had
ordered and received Mittlefreuh Hops from Boston Beer. I
have. I sent them 12 bucks, and got 400 mg of pellets. I made
a brown ale, using the Mittelfreuh for aroma. I also dry
hopped after a week, and bottled 3 weeks later. That was about
6 weeks ago, and the stuff is tasting very good.
Unfortuantely, my next batch won't be ready until well after
this one is gone. I guess that's a regular hazard of
homebrerwing. I sent them another $12, with my work address,
to get another pack. I haven't received it yet, but they
haven't cashed my check either. I don't know if they have a
one-to-a-customer policy, and they found me out, or if they are
out of hops, or if they are just slow this time around, or
what. Anyway, I would recommend trying the Mittelfreuh hops,
if just for the variety.
- --
Jeff Hewit
******************************************************************************
Eat a live toad first thing in the morning and nothing worse
will happen to you the rest of the day.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 95 08:30:32 EDT
From: djfitzg@VNET.IBM.COM
Subject: Kegging
Greetings:
My wife and kids, got me a very thoughtful Fathers Day gift this year.
It's a 5 gallon soda keg, 5lb co2, regulator, and all hoses.
The homebrew shop suggests force carboanation at 40 psi for 4 days, and
then reduce pressure to 6 psi to serve.
I would appreciate additional advice from anyone, who has experience using
5 gallon soda keg setups. I'm looking for tips on carbonation, aging, serving
etc...
Thanks,
Dan Fitzgerald
djfitzg@vnet.ibm.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 95 10:49:39 EDT
From: Pierre Jelenc <pcj1@columbia.edu>
Subject: Laaglander malt extract
In HBD 1770, reved@ix.netcom.com (RevEd - Ed Blonski) says:
> I went to a local brew store [ ... ] and bought 12 lbs of Laaglanders
> malt, thinking it sounded good for a barley wine. [ ... ] Then I see in
> the 6/26 issue of the digest a blurb about how one brew shop stop selling
> Laaglander because of complaints.
Assuming you do mean _extract_, Laaglander is one of my favorites because
it can reliably give a high FG without requiring a tremendous OG. It is a
tool which performs extremely well when used properly, and I would hate to
see it "banned" because some people use it improperly and complain that
they need to be protected from themselves.
Shall hardware stores have to stop selling wrenches because some people
use them as hammers and complain that they don't do that job well?
Pierre
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 15:36:35 -0400
From: Glen Hathaway <glenh@icebox.iceonline.com>
Subject: bulkhead fittings
>Kirk R Fleming writes:
>flange-bulkhead thru fitting, but you may have trouble finding such a
>fitting with gaskets that will seal under the tight radius of the pot and
>that can take the temperatures well. Teflon gaskets would be the perfect
>choice--I have not seen such a fitting that would work on such a curved
>surface--but apparently the EasyMasher (TM) in fact does. Don't know.
A simple solution would be to gently hammer-and-dolly the area on the pot
that you want to drill until it's flat. Use hammer/dolly if you have one,
or use two hammers. One inside and one outside.
Glen Hathaway -- glenh@iceonline.com
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 22:27:18 -0400
From: Spliffo@aol.com
Subject: missed 1769/aol goofed
Hello to all!
A special thanx to Rob Lauriston, Rob Brown, Chuck and Grace Burkins,
and Chris Cooper! Still absorbing all the info. Hoping to get a batch brewed
before the softball party....give'm something to taste besides Butwiper!
Also AOL started sending me HBD #1769, then quit!! How would I get this
through e-mail, exact directions appreciated. TIA
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 1 Jul 1995 23:32:43 -0800
From: chrispix@uclink2.berkeley.edu (Christopher Pickslay)
Subject: Root Beer Beer
Some friends of mine and I are sitting around at a pub tonight and one of
them tells me she had a root-beer-flavored beer the other day. It was at a
small bar in Sacramento (she didn't remember the name). This was definitely
an alcohlic beverage, served on tap, and she said it tasted just like a
good root beer-no alcohol taste. No, it wasn't Schnapps.
So I get home and re-read Charlie P.'s recipe for Mackjack Root Beer in The
Homebrewer's Companion, and sure enough, it says right there (which I
hadn't noticed before) that you can ferment it, adding a few lb.s of
crystal malt for residual sweetness. Ever since I got my homebrew setup
I've been fascinated for some reason with the idea of brewing my own root
beer, but wasn't too thrilled when I read that your standard root beer
would have to be kegged, since adding yeast at bottling to the unfermented
brew would be playing with dynamite.
So has anyone out there tried brewing your own fermented root beer (and/or
tried the brew my friend stumbled across in Sacramento)? If so, I'd be
interested in hearing how it came out, along with recipes/suggestions.
TIA,
?:^{>
Christopher Pickslay
chrispix@uclink2.berkeley.edu
UC Berkeley
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 09:45:52 -0500
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Dortmund 2 - Part 1
Dortmund 2
This is the sixth in a series of posts on the formulation
of waters similar to those of famous brewing cities of the world. They
are based on ion concentration profiles given by Dave Draper in
his post in #1704 (10 April 95). See my post "Water Series" (#1763) for
explanatory material (correction: in the Line 3 explanation read 1.8 ml of
1 N sulfuric acid, not 18 ml). Quick reminders: all ion concentrations and
salt quantities are in ppm which is the same as mg/l. The water to
which the salts are added is assumed to be ION FREE (i.e. it is
DISTILLED WATER or REVERSE OSMOSIS WATER).
The Dortmund 2 profile is attributed to Papazian in the "Brewers
Companion." This profile is actually NOT lopsided with respect to the
anion/cation ratio with the correct ratio 0.91, not 1.53 as stated in
the Dortmund 2x post. In computing anions I neglected to allow for the
fact that most of the dissolved carbonate (80% of it at pH 7) is in
the bicarbonate form which contributes 1 mEq/mMole (as opposed to
2 for carbnonate). Allowing for this means that the anion/cation ratios
being computed are a function of the pH of the specified water and as
we don't know what that is we are using 7. The Dortmund 1 ratio was
also stated incorrectly and should be 0.39, i.e. even more imbalanced
than we originally thought.
Let's look at a formulation for Dortmund 2 water at pH 7. It doesn't much
matter whether a simple set of salts is used or whether external acid is
employed so we give the simplest case:
Formulation I
pH 7.00; no external acid; Minimum salts
n: 923657 Temp: 0.000996 Energy (rms %): 20.710417
Dortmund 2 Desired Cations: 20.621 Anions: 16.043 mEq/L Ratio: 0.913
ION DESIRED REALIZED ERR, % SALTS AMOUNT
Ca 250.000 169.737 -32.11 NaCl 0.000
Mg 25.000 24.320 -2.72 Na2CO3.10H2O 0.000
Na 70.000 73.704 5.29 CaCL2 0.000
K 0.000 0.000 0.00 CaSO4.2H2O 364.700
CO3 550.000 319.525 -41.90 CaCO3 211.873
SO4 280.000 299.591 7.00 MgCL2 0.000
Cl 100.000 111.461 11.46 MgCO3 0.000
H 3.144 3.144 0.00 KCl 0.000
Na2SO4 0.000
MgSO4.7H2O 246.502
H2SO4 0.000
NaHCO3 269.330
HCl 114.668
Carbonic: 1.0294 Bicarbonate: 4.2913 Carbonate: 0.002054 mM
Total Required Hydronium: 3.1442 Sulfuric Hydronium: 0.0000 mEq
Hydrochloric Hydronium: 3.1442 mEq
H2SO4 perturbed. HCl adjusted to maintain pH 7.00
Solubility Products - CaCO3: 8.70E-09 MgCO3: 2.60E-05
Ion Products - CaCO3: 8.70E-09 MgCO3: 2.05E-09
Alkalinity: 4.24 mEq; 212.01 ppm as CaCO3.
No permanent hardness. Temporary hardness: 10.47 mEq; 523.50 ppm as CaCO3
The water synthesized is out of spec in calcium and carbonate by (roughly) the
same amounts. It could be fixed up by adding about 35% more calcium carbonate
but a look at the ion product for calcium carbonate shows that the solution is
already saturated with calcium and carbonate at levels 35% below the specified
ones. What this means is that the Dortmund 2 profile cannot exist at pH 7 and it
makes sense to look at a formulation at our lower pH 6.38:
Formulation II
pH 6.38; use external acid; Minimum salts
n: 690000 Temp: 0.000963 Energy (rms %): 5.609352
Accepted: 1139 Rejected: 8861 n_sol: 0 n_0: 0 n_hyd: 0
Dortmund 2 Desired Cations: 20.621 Anions: 16.043 mEq/L Ratio: 0.913
ION DESIRED REALIZED ERR, % SALTS AMOUNT
Ca 250.000 269.227 7.69 NaCl 0.000
Mg 25.000 25.340 1.36 Na2CO3.10H2O 0.000
Na 70.000 72.830 4.04 CaCL2 0.000
K 0.000 0.077 0.08 CaSO4.2H2O 304.353
CO3 550.000 487.293 -11.40 CaCO3 495.406
SO4 280.000 269.946 -3.59 MgCL2 0.000
Cl 100.000 100.145 0.15 MgCO3 0.000
H 9.008 2.823 -68.66 KCl 0.147
Na2SO4 0.000
MgSO4.7H2O 256.841
H2SO4 0.000
NaHCO3 266.134
HCl 102.955
Carbonic: 4.0585 Bicarbonate: 4.0585 Carbonate: 0.000466 mM
Total Required Hydronium: 9.0077 Sulfuric Hydronium: 0.0000 mEq
Hydrochloric Hydronium: 2.8230 mEq
6.1846 mEq additional hydronium required to maintain pH 6.38
Solubility Products - CaCO3: 8.70E-09 MgCO3: 2.60E-05
Ion Products - CaCO3: 3.13E-09 MgCO3: 4.86E-10
Alkalinity: 3.98 mEq; 198.77 ppm as CaCO3.
No permanent hardness. Temporary hardness: 15.52 mEq; 775.92 ppm as CaCO3
These numbers are all within spec and this formulation is certainly a good
one. Use of sulfuric acid and caclium chloride bring everything to well under 1%
error but we are strongly motivated to give recipes which require only the most
common salts where that is possible.
-MORE-
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 1995 09:45:56 -0500
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Dortmund 2 - Part 2
We have in the past been downplaying formulations which require external
acid as not being natural because mother nature does not use phosphoric,
lactic, or citric acid in producing these waters. She does, however, use
carbonic.We thought it would be instructive to think about doing the same.
Formulation II calls for 6.2 mEq of external acid. Since we are at pH 6.38
(which is the first pK for carbonic acid) half of any added carbonic acid
molecules will be converted to bicarbonate ions yielding hydronium ions
in number equal to the number of molecules converted, i.e. half the number
added. Thus if we want 6.2 mEq hydronium we must add 12.4 mEq carbonic acid
Assuming that we can dissolve exactly 12.36 mM/L carbon dioxide the total
carbonate content of the water will go up by 12.36*60 = 742 ppm to 1229 ppm
which clearly puts us way out of spec. Furthermore, we cannot easily measure
out 12.36 mM/L carbon dioxide to dissolve. What we can do, however, is make
up Formulation II without the external acid and then saturate it with CO2 by
bubbling CO2 at atmospheric pressure through it. What happens when we do this
is very interesting.
We first add the hydrochloric acid to the water, mix thoroughly and then add
the salts with further mixing. The water becomes cloudy because not all the
calcium carbonate can dissolve and the part that can dissolves quite slowly.
We do not add external acid but instead bubble CO2 through the water. The pH
drops to 5.6 pretty quicky as the gas dissolves but the mixture stays cloudy.
After about an hour and a half equilibrium is reached at which time the pH
is 5.80 and the solution clear.
It is reasonable easy to compute what the pH of Formulation II should be at
25C (the temperature of the experiment) and the computed value is 5.87,
certainly
gratifying close to the measured pH. We know that at equilibrium with CO2
at atmospheric pressure of 760 mm Hg we should have 760*0.044 = 33.44 mM/L
carbonic acid in the solution. We also know that at pH 5.87 the carbonic
species
is 75% of the total so we see that the total of carbonate (.001%), bicarbonate
(75%) and carbonic (25%) is 33.44*4/3 = 44.58 mM. At 60 mg/mM this is a
whopping
2673 mg/L.The bicarbonate is a quarter of this or 8.36 mM/L.
Now wait a minute. Actually, wait a few hours. When we turn off the CO2 and
remove the stone the partial pressure of CO2 over the water goes from 760 mm
Hg to about 0.3 mm Hg. CO2 begins to leave the water (not rapidly enough to
cause fizzing) but fairly rapidly and the pH begins to drop. As CO2 leaves, the
equilibrium between CO2 and HCO3 is upset and some HCO3 converts to CO2 and
water to try to restablish the equilibrium but the formation of water uses
hydronium ions and the pH rises. Note that rather than waiting we can aerate
the solution by pouring back and fort between vessels or using an aerating
stone with air, oxygen, nitrogen etc.
As the pH rises the proportions of ions shift towards carbonate. At pH 7, for
example, the mix is 20% carbonic, 80% bicarbonate and and 0.04% carbonate. This
is enough carbonate to excede the calcium carbonate solubility product and
chalk will, therefore, precipitate but only a tiny fraction of the total i.e.
.0036 millimoles out of the 6.7 millimoles we put in. Also, the precipitation
reaction takes place slowly and as so little forms you may not be able to
perceive much change in clarity. A haze may be apparent on the bottom of the
vessel after a day or 2.
As the CaCO3 drops out it carries carbonate with it and this upsets the
carbonate balance. Some bicarbonate converts to carbonate to make up for
some of the carbonate lost and in so doing releases hydronium ions so the
pH drops. If we want pH 7 we simply aerate the mixture again until the desired
pH is reached again.
Assuming pH 7 is re-established we can calculate the total amount of carbonate
and it is 3.35 mM or 200 ppm, well below the 550 ppm in the spec. If we were
to shoot for a target pH of 6.66 rather than 7 we would have total carbonate
at 9.17 mM which corresponds to 550 ppm. As we now have a water which closely
approximates the specified water we might guess that pH 6.66 is close to that
of actual Dortmund water, assumining that the specified numbers are correct
but we also see that the carbonate level is intimately tied to the pH. Chose
a value for one and the other is determined.
This all suggests a strategy for formulating this water by imitation of nature.
Use the external acid formulation which gives a good representation of the
desired ion profile. Mix the salts and acids (but not the external acid)
into the water and bubble CO2 through it until all the salts are dissolved.
Now aerate until the desired pH is reached. Cover the container and let it
sit over night. If the pH has dropped, aerate again until the desired pH is
re-established.
Having gone to all this trouble we note that if this water is allowed to stand
CO2 will continue to escape reducing the total carbonate content, the pH will
rise and chalk will precipitate. If you boil a quantity of this
water for infusions or whatever you will accelerate this process. This is
to reinforce the idea that having made this water it is your resposibility
to understand how to use it i.e. to know how the Dortmund brewers use it.
Thanks to Bob Hall for getting us on this track.
-END-
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 95 08:09:46 PDT
From: hollen@megatek.com (Dion Hollenbeck)
Subject: Re: Clean out my blow off hose!
>>>>> "Jeff" == Jeff Renner <nerenner@umich.edu> writes:
Jeff> In article <HOLLEN.95Jun28144052@peg.megatek.com>, hollen@megatek.com
Jeff> (Dion Hollenbeck) wrote:
Jeff> <snip>
>> I will put up with
>> cleaning blowoff hoses in order to lose the fusel oils and be able to
>> use cultured yeasts.
Jeff> I'm not sure if you are saying that dry yeasts produce fusel
Jeff> oils, or that they are removed with blowoff. I've always heard
Jeff> that more fusels are produced at higher fermentation
Jeff> temperatures, and some strains probably are more likely to
Jeff> produce them, although I don't know if dried ones are more
Jeff> prone. Since fusels are higher alcohols and less volatile than
Jeff> ethanol, it would seem than if anything, they would be less
Jeff> likely to be removed with blowoff. Can you clarify?
I guess I did not state that well.
Point 1 - I would not choose dry yeast because just because it
produces little krausen. The post I replied to seemed
to suggest this as a solution to not having to use a
blowoff hose. I prefer to use liquid yeasts for all their
benefits and will put up with having a large krausen
and having to use a blowoff hose because of the *great*
advantages to using cultured or liquid yeasts.
Point 2 - Yeast can produce fusel oils and these are carried off
in the blowoff when using a blowoff hose. They will fall
back into the wort when you use a large fermenter so that
a blowoff hose is not necessary. I do not remember where
I read this and cannot *prove* it. As far as I know, all
yeasts produce fusel oils, my comment on fusel oils was
not directed at dry yeasts.
I apologize for any confusion I may have caused by referring in one
sentence to what was truly two related but completely different
replies.
dion
- --
Dion Hollenbeck (619)675-4000x2814 Email: hollen@megatek.com
Staff Software Engineer Megatek Corporation, San Diego, California
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1771, 07/03/95
*************************************
-------
