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HOMEBREW Digest #1737
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/05/22 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1737 Mon 22 May 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Fix mash schedule/EasyMasher<tm> (Steve Robinson)
Re: Bitter brew (PatrickM50)
Enzyme file renamed... (kevin)
Drakes/Stout Dispense ("David B. Sapsis")
Re: Stuck fermentations (HBD#1735) (G. Garnett)
re ftp.stanford.edu (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
Androgenous first name (kit.anderson)
dWC Malts and FG (Kirk R Fleming)
Toronto (Scott Howe)
Irish Moss roundup/pitching feedback (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
request for Honey Porter Recipe (DUSTHOMP)
Pete's Wicked Summer Brew (Jeff Guillet)
Astringent mouths and pressed strawbs. (Russell Mast)
drinking water safe hoses? (Steve Peters)
RIMS (Eamonn McKernan)
Re: Starter Aeration Trick\Draft Mix (RWaterfall)
SUNSHINE CHALLENGE RESULTS (CFHBGordon)
Kirin's "first pressings" (Robert Lauriston/Patricia Bennett)
beer-balls (John Shearer)
SIGNOFF homebrew%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com (ESSNER RICHARD L)
Toxic...like it or not! (DocsBrew)
Re: Lautering gadgets (Dan Sherman)
MASH SCHEDULE (j.conklin5)
10 gallon corny kegs (Kenneth Whitney)
Hop Oil/Coconut Oil/Oil Slick ("Robert W. Mech")
Copper breweries ("terence tegner")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 95 10:19:34 EDT
From: Steve Robinson <Steve.Robinson@analog.com>
Subject: Fix mash schedule/EasyMasher<tm>
Russel Brodeur writes, regarding the Fix mash schedule:
> It seems to me as though the rest at 140 F does virtually nothing at all,
> and the entire conversion is taking place at 158 F, hence the high FG's.
> This is the logic which prompted me to increase the 2nd rest to 145 F.
I also use the Fix mash schedule, and have been very pleased with the results.
I do not experience the high FG problem that started this thread, and I think
it's important to understand one of the main advantages of this schedule.
The degree of fermentability of the wort can be controlled by changing the
times spent at 60C and 70C (140F and 158F). To make the wort more fermentable
you should spend MORE time at 60C and less at 70C. My most recent experience
with this is a porter which started at 1.055 and finished at 1.012. The mash
schedule was straight from Dr. Fix's post in HBD #1506 (30 minutes at 60C,
followed by 30 minutes at 70C). To make a wort with a lower FG, I would adjust
the times to 40 minutes at 60C/20 minutes at 70C.
This leads me to wonder if perhaps your thermometer is reading too high? If
your 140/158 rests were really at 136/154, then the initial rest may be doing
very little. You would then be following it with a short saccharification rest
at 154F, producing a dextrinous wort. This would also explain why boosting the
140 rest to 145 helps.
Andy Donohue writes:
> There have been a few posts lately about trub removal and
> hops clogging CF chillers. I use a homemade easy masher
> for mashing and in my kettle. Even if you don't wan't to
> mash with an EM, they are excellent for trub removal.
This is probably true if you use a CF wort chiller. I use an immersion
chiller, and the one time I tried this the EM plugged up and I spent half an
hour rubbing the side of the screen with a spoon in order to keep the flow
going. I have also heard several other instances of the EM clogging up with
hop residue and trub, and the common denominator seems to be immersion
chilling.
I still use the EM in my mash tun, but in the boil kettle I have replaced it
with a copper ring drilled with zillions of small holes and I have had no
clogging problems since.
Steve Robinson in North Andover, MA
steve.robinson@analog.com
[insert pithy quote here]
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 10:22:29 -0400
From: PatrickM50@aol.com
Subject: Re: Bitter brew
In HBD 1735, Palmer Davis noted that:
>>>>>>>>>>>
The last two batches that I've bottled have suffered from a curious
problem. ... before I bottled both, as the SG's fall leveled off, the beer
began to
develop a harsh, astringent character, which was still present at
bottling time. What happened, and will this go away with time?
<<<<<<<<<<
Same thing happened to a batch of California Common I made recently. I
believe it was due to having too high a PH level in my sparge water, but as
you didn't say whether your's was an extract or all grain brew I don't know
if this is your problem. Also, I had split the 5 gal batch between two pots
on the stove and while I was cooling one, I believe the finishing hops in the
other had more time in the wort than they should have, thus contributing more
bitterness than planned. In any event, I couldn't even drink the first
bottle at two weeks, but after a month the bitterness was down considerably.
After two months it was outright delicious. And I'm saving the last bottle
for a special occasion :-)
Hope this helps!
Pat Maloney
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 08:58:07 -0600 (MDT)
From: kevin@wheels.aar.com
Subject: Enzyme file renamed...
I spoke too soon about the enzyme file. It was renamed when it was
entered to the ftp site. The correct info is now:
site: ftp.stanford.edu (anonymous ftp)
location: /pub/clubs/homebrew/docs/using_enzymes.Z
Another person requested to make it available via his WWW pages. It
can also be seen at:
http://alpha.rollanet.org/library/enzymes595.html
Kevin
- --
Kevin Hass WB0DPN !
! PGP public key by request via email
kevin@wheels.aar.com !
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 08:04:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: "David B. Sapsis" <dbsapsis@nature.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Drakes/Stout Dispense
Top of the mornin' to y'all,
Glen asks about parameters for Drake's Ale:
For those regionally interested I can give some insight, although I
believe that Roger has altered the recipe somewhat since I saw it
brewed. The beer is kindof a hybrid between a big british brown (?) and
an old ale. The is a distinctive caramel malt character coming from the
use of medium dark british crystal (80 Lov H. Baird) at about 10% of
grist. The balance of the grain is (was) Great Western 2 row.
Straight infusion mash, mid 150's, gravity mid 1050's. The hopping is
quite interesting. He was using Chinook for bittering to approx. 30
IBU, with Willamettes and Kents used for finish, with a clear but light
touch. Yeast strain is Windsor. Apparent attenuation is right around
73-75%. The most dominant facet of the beer in my opinion is from the
british caramel, and you will not get it using domestics. Incidentally,
some local pubs will pull this beer on a handpump, which dramatically
improves it's british posturing.
***************
Todd queries about dispensing stout from N2 setups:
The following relates toboth what I have been told by distributors and
my own experience.
1) Guiness mix is 70%N2 and 30%CO2;
2) The effects of the CO2 in these types of beers are like its effect in
any beer -- it adds some carbonic acid sharpness and fills mouthfeel to
some extent; the CO2 coming out of solution and the high surface tension
of the beer result in the famous head. The N2 basically allows the beer
to be dispensed at very high pressure without effecting dissolved gas
coposition. This is important for generation of nucleation sites as it
is dispensed through a controlled sparkler tap (guinness tap).
3) Dispense temp is a function of temperature: I have had very good
results dispensing 55F beer using 35-45 psi
4) While the flow control tap is not obligatory, as stated above, the
capability to withstand very high top pressure and force the beer to
initiate foaming both contibute to the foam stand. Common cobra head
faucets give out and leak commonly at pressures above 30 psi. I have a
Murphy's style tap which also has a flow controller valve like the older
guinness types. This is a nice feature, particularly for making black
'n tans. If you are serious enough to get a separate N2 cylinder, I
highly suggest getting an appropriate tap. Incidentally, I have heard
that the Guinness style taps are no longer available with the flow
control knob. I am not certain of theis report, but I have noticed all
new Guinness taps to be of bronze colored metal, and lacking the valve.
The new Murphy's taps do have the valve. When I was looking into
getting mine, there was a significant difference in price, however; the
valved versions ran over $110 (but I got mine free --- wheeeee!)
5) I use separate CO2 and (pure) N2 cylinders. I shoot for dissolved
CO2 at about 1.5 volumes and use the straght nitrogen for dispense,
usually around 40 psi. Works great for me (and not just for stouts).
Hope this helps,
- --dave in Oakland soon to be Sacratomato dbsapsis@nature.berkeley.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 11:03:41 -0400
From: ggarnett@qrc.com (G. Garnett)
Subject: Re: Stuck fermentations (HBD#1735)
In HBD#1735, Ilkka Sysil <isysila@clinet.fi> wrote:
>I cannot see very much point in cosidering cures for stuck fermentation.
>Stuck fermentation definitely means that things have gone unfortunately
>& *irreversibly* awry in much earlier stage of brewing process.
>
>Stuck fermentation is almost exclusively due to *wrong* composition
>of sugars in the wort provided that aeration of wort has been done
>properly and yeast & pitching rate is ok.
Having a wort with too high a proportion of unfermentables is only one
cause of stuck ferments (and, I should note, one cause which does
_not_ apply to extract brewers!). As you note above, under-aeration
and yeast underpitching can also cause stuck ferments.
As can poor temperature control (allowing the fermentation to get too
cold for the strain of yeast involved), use of a yeast unable to tolerate
high alchohol leves in a high-gravity beer, or even a yeast that tends
to flocculate early.
All of these can result in "stuck" ferments, and most - if not all - of
these conditions can be "fixed", one way or another. I feel that there
is good reason to discuss stuck ferments on the HBD. Not only can
possible "fixes" be proposed, but many readers can learn something from
the discussions - and hopefully avoid making that kind of mistake themselves.
On the HBD, at least, there are very few bad questions - just bad answers.
Even the repeated "Help! Is my Beer Ruined?" posts. I certainly understand
how these can get tiresome, but look at it from the point of view of the
poster: What most of them need is some reassurance and maybe some basic
tips. If the HBD's master brewers don't feel like answering, there are
plenty of us who aren't that advanced who will quietly do what's needed
via private email, and you can skip over the post without guilt.
Recently, I've become concerned that we on the HBD haven't been presenting as
friendly a face towards newcomers as we might - and in some cases, OUR
treatment of these newbies will determine whether they stay in the hobby, or
leave for some other endeavour.
>There is no point doctoring the remaining much too high amount of dextrins
>into fermentable sugars [...] In [...] brewing the ratio of fermentables vs.
>unfermentables is adjusted [... during ...] *mashing* exactly the way which
>comes up with desired composition of sugars in wort.
That's great, and I'm sure most of the readers of the list who brew all-grain
beers know about it. On the other hand, my all-grainer friends' TARDIS is
broken - by the time the ferment sticks, we can't go back in time to correct
the mash schedule. This is, of course, why we keep a notebook, so that we can
record what we did wrong and learn from our mistakes.
On the other hand, I for one am loath to pour beer down the drain (I subscribe
to the Irish belief that on judgement day, you're suspended head-down in a
barrel of all the alchohol you've ever spilled - and if you drown, to Hell
with you). If there's a something I can do that can save the batch, I'd
rather save it if it'll be drinkable at all. A "ruined" batch like that
will probably never win any prizes, but when I'm thirsty I don't want a
prize, I just want a beer.
I sometimes wonder just how much perfectly drinkable beer is poured down
drains each year by tense, worried homebrewers.
Guy Garnett - ggarnett@qrc.com
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hakuna Matata and Have a Homebrew!
Standard disclaimers apply
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 95 11:17:40 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna@relay.com
Subject: re ftp.stanford.edu
Given Drew's question in today's HBD re unzipping files from
ftp.stanford.edu, I thought I would post an experience I had recently re
this site. Note I run on a MAC, so you may want to scroll on down if you
don't use one (you should of course go right out and buy one!). Also note
that my problem related to a .z file, not a .zip file.
I was attempting to download the all about grain FAQ referenced recently in
HBD, I was accessing via Compuserve FTP if it matters. I downloaded it
without the .z extension, presuming the server would uncompress it for me
like the instructions say it will. Well, it didn't (file was full of ascii
chars when i copied it to a DOS disk and tried to open it on a PC) and
attempting to open the downloaded file on my MAC gave me messages that I
did not have the Compress program it was created with. After a good bit of
trial and failure, it turns out that this file with a .z extension is
apparently a compressed unix file. I downloaded a program called
MacCompress from Compuserve (apparently the MAC version of this Compress
pgm), and that (finally) did the trick.
For what it's worth ...
Tim Fields
Timf@relay.com
Relay Technology, Inc., SQL/DS Division
Vienna, VA, USA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 95 10:55:59 -0500
From: kit.anderson@acornbbs.com
Subject: Androgenous first name
> "Yup, Kit's (Anderson) a brewer...
> What he isn't is a woman." - Dan
"I yam whatsk I yam." -Popeye the Sailor
Thank you for clearing that up, Dan. I have had some interesting =
propositions,though.
"SWM, homebrewer, almost-40-something, portly stature, seeks-20-
something fit SWF who enjoys watching televised sports and
washing bottles. Send picture of wort chiller."
Androgenous names can be fun in cyberspace.
Kit "Travels With Chiles" Anderson
Bath, Maine
<kit.anderson@acornbbs.com>
*
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 10:03:20 -0600
From: flemingk@usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: dWC Malts and FG
Russ Brodeur says:
>I'm going to brew an English bitter...
>I'm shooting for an OG around 40-45 and hope to get the FG down to 10-15
I've not used dWC--I've been using Baird exclusively for the pale ale malt,
and (probably) Baird or M&F for the crystal. For light bitters w/OGs at
38 and 33 I've gotten FGs of 10 for both using 1098 and 1084, respectively.
Mash was 105F for 30 min and 153-154F for 60 min. Mash pH was not measured
for either run, but recent pale batches with gypsum or Burton salts have
been ~5.4 at ~100F.
In Fix's post (18 Aug 94) his bill of 24 lbs dWC, 2 lbs dWC CaraVienne and
1 lb dWC aromatic, run at 40/60/70C (30 min each), "typically" gets OG ~ 53.
The thrust of his talk centered on the influence of a 40C rest on extraction,
BUT he adds that the ratio of times spent at 60 and 70C strongly influence
fermentability. To wit, if time(60C)/time(70C) = 1/3, then he said ADF
will be in the low 70s (as percent). OTOH, if this same ratio is 3/1,
ADF moves up to the mid-80s. He uses 15 min/45 min and 45 min/15 min as
examples.
Say you can get 85%, then we have:
.85 = (OE - AE)/OE
Using about 40 pts as the OG, to get:
~40/4 = 10P as the OE, then
.85(10) - 10 = -AE, or AE = 1.5 (deg Plato)
Converting to gravity: FG ~ 1.006. I don't believe it, but the only way to
know is to try it, bearing in mind we don't know what kind of yeast he
used to get these estimates.
What I'd like is a plot based on empirical data of time(60C)/time(70C) vs.
maltose/maltotriose. I think such a plot would be very interesting,
especial if the Mouthfeel Index could be incorporated somehow. :-) Since
Russ proposed a grain bill having about 7% non-pale ale malt vs. Fix's ~12%
non-pale bill, seems he should get comparable results.
Say, I have about five 1/2 gallon jugs and an excuse to brew, er, I mean a
problem to research...better get cracking.
Kirk R Fleming / Colorado Springs / flemingk@usa.net
"You can't get enough, but enough ain't the test."
David Bowie
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 08:36:33 -0700
From: Scott Howe <howe@appmag.com>
Subject: Toronto
Yep, It's one of those posts... I'm going to Toronto and want to know where
to drink. Good beer-bars/restaurants, must see sights would be appreciated.
I'll be there June 17-24; are there any fests that week there or close?
Thanks in advance for private e-mail responses.
--Aubrey Scott Howe, III
Santa Barbara, Ca
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 95 12:11:12 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna@relay.com
Subject: Irish Moss roundup/pitching feedback
Many thanks to all who responded to my query about Irish Moss. Here are
the results:
7 direct responses and 1 HBD posting
When to add:
with 20 mins to go in the boil = 1
with 15 mins to go in the boil = 7
All but one suggested re-hydrating the IM before adding it to the boil.
Length-of-rehydration-time ranged from overnight to a half an hour, with
most opting for 1 or 2 hours. One to two cups of warm to very hot water
was the preferred rehydration medium. Overall, respondents said that the
combo of rehydration and adding 15 mins from the END of the boil produced
by far the best results, but all noted that any use if IM resulted in
clearer brews.
Amount to use:
ranged from 1 tsp. to 1 TBS.
Average suggestion was 1 or 2 tsp.
My favorite comment: "The smell of wet Irish Moss is like a trip to the
beach"
and ...
RE Pitching Rates:
I received a response to my response to the pitching question (say that 10
times fast) stating that pitch rates for a "standard" ale should be the
slurry from a 1/10th batch size. For 5 gals, that equals the slurry from a
1/2 Gal starter (4 pts) - compared to the one pt I suggested. For higher
gravities and lagers, use more (1 GAL starter or more). IMO pitching rate
is important, so I'm passing this on fyi (I'm going to increase my rate).
In hindsight, I may have misinterpreted the yeast FAQ - I "read" 1 PT of
STARTER - it may very well have said/meant 1 PT of SLURRY - a big diff.
Tim Fields
Timf@relay.com
Relay Technology, Inc., SQL/DS Division
Vienna, VA, USA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 95 10:07:47 MST
From: DUSTHOMP@idbsu.idbsu.edu
Subject: request for Honey Porter Recipe
Does anyone have a Honey Porter Recipe? My daughter wants me to try
making one.. Thanks
Shirley Thompson User Service Center Boise State University
Dusthomp@Idbsu.Idbsu.Edu du
Here's to it and to it again, if you don't do it, when you get to it,
you may never get to it to do it again. . .
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 16:11:00 GMT
From: jeff.guillet@lcabin.com (Jeff Guillet)
Subject: Pete's Wicked Summer Brew
Dan Pack wrote:
H>Finally, over the weekend I tasted Pete's Wicked Summer Brew. It's a
H>partial wheat brew with a subtle "tang of lemon" or so the label
H>claims. There is a slight lemon flavor in the first few swallows which
H>I found annoying but other than that I thought it was rather nice.
H>It's not trying to be a true wheat beer, IMHO, but it seems they used
H>some amount of wheat to simply lighten the body.
Actually, I think the label claims it's an IPA with lemon flavor, not a
wheat. I really didn't think much of it. Especially for the price.
The lemon flavor is so weak that I didn't really notice it at all. I
liked the Christmas brew a lot better.
-=Jeff=- Pacifica, CA
jeff.guillet@lcabin.com
* CMPQwk 1.42-R2 * Reg #1757 *
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 13:02:51 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Astringent mouths and pressed strawbs.
> From: palmer@ansoft.com (Palmer Davis)
> Subject: Harsh, astringent taste from end of secondary?
My guess is that your astringency comes long before your secondary, it's just
that the sweetness of the unfinished wort covers it up before then.
Possibly you're having tannin extraction from your grains or your bittering
hop levels are high. If it's hops, that should mellow with age reasonably
quickly.
> From: usfmchql@ibmmail.com
> Subject: Extract brewing is for mouthfeeling hydrometers
Yes.
> > well extract brewing is for Russell Mast! Yeah! That's it!
Actually, I've been brewing all grain these days. Nonetheless, he's got a
point - I will gladly take gifts of extract beers.
> > I drank a light lager, then I drank a heavy nut-brown. Put my finger
> > in my mouth each time and it felt the same. Go figure...
Your finger or your beer?
> From: "Troy Howard" <troy@oculus.jsei.ucla.edu>
> Subject: Kirin's "First Pressings"
I think they use a little magazine paper in the mash.
> From: Larry Lowe <lnl@apwk01g3.abrfc.noaa.gov>
> Subject: strawbeerries
> i am an extract brewer. i have a small patch of strawberries and they are
> quite tasty. i was wondering if it is possible to brew a batch of beer with
> them
But of course. Use a lot, like a quart per gallon or more.
-R
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 11:30:47 -0700
From: stevep@pcx.ncd.com (Steve Peters)
Subject: drinking water safe hoses?
Howdy Fellow Brewers!
I am fortunate in being able to move from my 5 gallon stovetop system, to a 10
gallon, propane fired, all-grain brewery in my basement where it doesn't matter
what I spill on the floor. To bring the system to full-functionallity I need
to move my brewing water from my laundry sink to the brewery which is a good
20-30 feet away. In the stores lately I have seen "drinking water safe" garden
hose being sold. This seems like it would be a good solution for filling my
sparge kettle, etc. Has anyone used a product like this, or have any other
knowledge of whether or not it imparts off-flavors?
-Steve
- --
...+ Steve Peters : stevep@pcx.ncd.com ....|.. Even Jesus wanted just ...
....+ Sustaining Engineering and Support ....|... a little more time .....
...+ Network Computing Devices, Inc .......|...... : Tom Waits .......
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 14:42:21 -0400
From: eamonn@chinook.physics.utoronto.ca (Eamonn McKernan)
Subject: RIMS
Oh boy: my favourite HDB topic: RIMS!
Tim, SS screen is very expensive. I paid $75 CDN for about 4 square ft. I tied
it with wire (fishing line disentangles, unless you know of better knots than
I. Someone want to start a "string thread"? ha ha... ) to an aluminum perforated
pizza pan. All that money for stainless mesh, and no one sells stainless pans.
Bitter. Whether my effective open area for runoff is limited by the open area
of the pizza pan, or the mesh spacing I don't know. But I suspect that it's
closer to that of the mesh
A warning about the motor controller: get the pin-outs right for the triac. I
wasted a day because the place I bought the thing from didn't know the
correct pin-outs, and I thought I had guessed them correctly. I was wrong.
As for the keg, I got a Golden Gate shaped keg without the bung hole in the
side. These are ideal, because then you don't have to cut the pizza pan in half
to get it into the keg. The bottom of the keg tapers in, so a 14" pan fit
through the hole I cut in the top, and still rests above the bottom. I used
a jig saw and blades with lots of fine teeth (31 per inch I think) to cut the
keg. Cut slowly, don't force it or the blades melt. My stainless steel pipe
coupling is welded to the bottom middle of the keg. Not to the side as is
commly done. The bottom slopes towards the centre, so every precious drop
of wort is collected. The only reason to weld to the side (as far as I can
tell) would be if you have a burner heating the keg. With a RIMS, this is not
an issue, so keep it simple. Though I have yet to build a stand for mine, it
shouldn't be too difficult (cross my fingers). But obviously one can't simply
rest the keg directly on a table top if it's got a pipe sticking out of the
bottom.
I'm taking next week off school, so hopefully I'll finish putting mine
together. Have I mentionned that this is my favourite HBD topic...?
Good luck,
Eamonn
eamonn@atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca
p.s. I hope I spelled "Tim" correctly. Sorry again Russell!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 15:56:18 -0400
From: RWaterfall@aol.com
Subject: Re: Starter Aeration Trick\Draft Mix
Elde@aol.com said in HBD1735 - "I aerate my starter by whipping it for a
minute or two at the end of the boil. (Still hot enough to hopefully kill
any nasty's, and its *starter* HSA is not an issue.)"
- ---------
The solubility of oxygen (or any gases) in boiling wort or water is much
lower than at room temp. Dr. David C. Harsh posted the following data in
HBD1701:
" At 20 C, solubility of oxygen in chlorine free water in contact with air
is reported at 9.09 ppm. Exposure to pure oxygen would result in maximum
solubility of 43.49 ppm [(9.09/.209)]. Solubility of oxygen in water at 50 C
exposed to air is 5.47 ppm....at 80 C the solubility is reduced to 5.3 ppm."
When you heat water up you see small bubbles being generated long before you
hit boiling temp. This is the dissolved gases being driven off.
- --------------
Regarding Todd Ehlers' questions about N2/CO2 gas mix (also in HBD1735), I
asked the owner of a local bar [Mahar's - no affiliation,just a satisfied
customer(NAJASC)] that has about 50 drafts and hundreds of bottled beers
about his setup for Guinness. Jim uses straight nitrogen at 30 to 32 psi
(cellar temp) for his stouts because of a side-by-side tasting he did one
night using 100%N2 on one keg and 75%N2/25%CO2 on the other. He noticed a
slight improvement in flavor with the N2. He said that those present who
prefered the gas mix were not habitual stout drinkers. Those prefering the
N2 were. He figures it's better to satisfy the diehards. He did notice that
the last several pints from the N2 keg didn't do the frothing head
production thing. He changes kegs when he gets to that point. Jim also
said that Guinness likes bars to use the draft mix so you DON'T have the
inconsistency on the last pints. He uses a 60/40? mix fror the rest of his
ales (I didn't ask about the pressure) to give them a smoother feel.
Technically, you need the higher pressure with draft mix or N2 because N2 is
much less soluble than CO2. Also the lower percentage of CO2 (30% instead of
100%) lowers the solubility of the CO2 at a given pressure (Henry's Law).
I'm not exactly sure how using 2 separate cylinders of CO2 and N2 would
work. It seems like setting the pressure gauges in a 7:3 ratio (NOTE: use
absolute pressure=psig+14.7psi at sea level) would give you a 7:3 mix of gas.
You would need to hook up the lower pressure tank first. If you hook up the
higher pressure tank first, none of the other gas will flow in. I am
assuming that you would be using some kind of manifold to introduce both
gases continouously and simultaneously. If you are adding one then the other
sequentially, you would need to use a 10:3 pressure ratio to get a 7:3 gas
mixture. The vastly different solubilities may screw this up entirely
though.
Good Luck,
Bob Waterfall
Troy, NY, USA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 16:16:01 -0400
From: CFHBGordon@aol.com
Subject: SUNSHINE CHALLENGE RESULTS
SIXTH ANNUAL SUNSHINE CHALLENGE RESULTS
On May 6th & 7th, the biggest homebrew competition ever held in the State of
Florida took place at the Holiday Inn & The Mill on Kirkman Rd in Orlando.
There was a record 270 entries, up from the 229 last year. Over 60 judges,
stewards and event organizers participated in this American Homebrewers
Assoc. Sanctioned Competition. The number of categories increased from 22
last year to 25 this year. Many thanks to all who participated.
AND CONGRATULATIONS -
Barley Wine Belgian & French Ale
1. Bill Frazier-CFHB 1. Jeff Miller & Victor Sears-PDB
2. Carl Saxer-CFHB 2. Ronald Raike-CFHB
3. Matthew Hopkins-CFHB 3. John Kern-RS & BEERS
Belgian-style Lambic Brown Ale
1. Joe Johnston-HBFB 1. Joe Johnston-HBFB
2. Ron Wilkinson-CFHB 2. Ronald Raike-CFHB
3. Ronald Raike-CFHB 3. John Huie-CFHB-Haines City
English-style Pale Ale Amercian-style Ales
1. Steve Vallancourt-CFHB 1. Todd Kellenbenz-FOAM Rangers
2. Steve Roberts-FOAM Rangers 2. Dave Pappas & Carl Minion-CFHB
3. Pat Frost-CFHB 3. John Allen-Covert Hops Society
English Bitters Scottish Ales
1. D. Pappas/Gary Michel-CFHB 1. Ronald Raike-CFHB
2. Michele Wohleber-CFHB 2. Dennis Cobb - No Club
3. D. Pappas-CFHB 3. Gary Michel - CFHB
Porters English & Scottish Strong Ale
1. D. Pappas/S. Vallencourt-CFHB 1. D. Pappas-CFHB
2. Preston Merrick-CFHB 2. Steve Vallencourt-CFHB
3. Steve Vallencourt-CFHB 3. Ron Bach-CFHB
Stouts Bock
1. Dennis Cobb - No Club 1. Michaela Dobie-Tampa BEERS
2. Preston Merrick-CFHB 2. Mark Stober-Tampa BEERS
3. Gordon Cain-CFHB 3. Scott Christoffel-CFHB
Bavaria Darks & Classic Pilsner
German Lite Lager
1. Carl Saxer-CFHB 1. Darrell Simon-NTHB
2. Steve Peeler-CB 2. Jeff Miller&Victor Sears-PDB
3. Russ Bee-NTHB 3. Charley Milan-RS
Amercian Lagers Vienna/Oktoberfest/Marzen
1. Lynn Seelos-SAAZ 1 . Todd Kelenbenz-FOAM Rangers
2. T. Kellenbenz-FOAM Rangers 2. William Jenkins-HBFB
3. Steve Peeler-CB 3. Steve Peeler-CB
German-style Ale Fruit Beers
1. T. Kellenbenz-FOAM Rangers 1. R. Wilkinson/Walt Nason-CFHB
2. Jeff Miller & Victor Sears-PDB 2. Ronald Raike-CFHB
3. Ron Bach-CFHB 3. Russ Bee-NTHA
Herb Beers Specialty Beer
1. T. Kellenbenz-FOAM Rangers 1. Richard Payson-CFHB
2. Bruce Ficalora-CFHB 2. Carl Minion-CFHB
3. Dave Pappas-CFHB 3. Gary Michel-CFHB
Smoked Beer California Common Beers
1. W.F. (Billy) Kendrick-SAAZ 1. Rob & Vicki Hearst-CFHB
2. Vicki Hearst-CFHB 2. D. Pappas/Bruce Piccolora-CFHB
3. Larry Mayhew-FOAM Rangers 3. Luke Scott-CFHB
German-style Wheat Beer Traditional Mead/Herb Mead
1. Mitchel Whitington - No Club 1. Darrell Simon-NTHA
2. Steve Peller-CFHB 2. Ronald Raike-CFHB
3. Lynn Seelos-SAAZ 3. Dave Pappas-CFHB
Fruit Mead
1. Gerry Pelzer-CFHB
2. Leroy Gibbins-FOAM Rangers
3. Leroy Gibbins-FOAM Rangers
BEST OF SHOW: Todd Kellenbenz - Oktoberfest - FOAM Rangers
FIRST RUNNER-UP: Dave Pappas - Scottish Strong Ale - CFHB
SECOND RUNNER-UP: Gerry Pelzer - Fruit mead - CFHB
HOMEBREW CLUB ABBREVIATIONS
Carolina Brewmasters - CB
Central Florida Hombrewers - CFHB
Covert Hops Society - CHS
FOAM Rangers - FOAM R.
The Home Brewery Firehouse Brewers - HBFB
North Texas Homebrewers Association - NTHA
Palm Beach Draughtsman - PBD
Spacecoast Assoc. for the Advancement
of Zymurgy - SAAZ
Reed Stick Brewmasters - RS
Tampa Bay Brewing Enthusiasts
Enjoying Real Suds - Tampa BEERS
(No flames please - this is posted as a courtesy to those who have asked for
it. Sorry if there are typos or if your name is spelled incorrectly - I just
passed it along the way it was handed to me.)
Happy Brewing
Gordon
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 95 13:29:57 -0700
From: robtrish@noif.ncp.bc.ca (Robert Lauriston/Patricia Bennett)
Subject: Kirin's "first pressings"
Re: Kirin's "First Pressings"
Troy Howard wrote:
I heard an astonishing radio ad for Kirin: "high quality first pressings" as
opposed to other beers that are made by mixing the "first, second, and third
pressings".
I suppose that Kirin could use some sort of forced lautering process (so the
wort _might_ be described as a "pressing"), but more likely the ad company has
no clue how beer is made and thought it was similar to wine making.
Anyone know if Kirin really uses some sort of novel "pressing" process to
produce wort?
I don't know what Kirin does, but I can describe some modern brewing
technology. A lauter tun with a husk filter bed is the traditional method
of separating liquid extract from the remains of the grain after mashing.
Another method now in widespread use in large breweries is the use of a mash
filter which is indeed a sort of forced lautering similar to winemaking, or
similar to the filtration of beer. Coors uses mash filters and therefore
there are no lautertuns in their brewhouse. Slightly embarassing when I
asked where they were.
As for the 'first' part of the term 'first pressings', I can speculate.
(Perhaps an odd translation?) In lautering, it is common to refer to the
liquid which is drawn off before sparge water is added as 'first wort'.
This is the liquid which was used in mashing and the amont of it depends
upon the amount of water used in mashing aka mash thickness. The analogous
liquid drawn from a mash filter might be called the'first pressings'. It is
unlikely that Kirin would mash with an extremely thin mash since it would be
an uneconomical use of the vessels (even if they could compensate for the
biochemical differences in a thin mash); therefore 'first pressings' like
'first wort' would have to be diluted before fermentation, even in high
gravity brewing.
I would never want to endorse beer marketing as a source of technical
information about brewing, but sparging does have the potential to extract
undesirable materials and so it might be justified to consider beer made
only from 'first pressings' as superior. But the idea of a 'superior' beer
doesn't leave much room for individual taste.
The speculation really begins when you ask, what do they do with the second
and third runnings? Make a different line of beers or other products?
Using these liquids for subsequent mashes would likely make them too thick
and interfere with mash reactions. Someone else might have a suggestion
about what the difference between the second and third pressings would be.
- -- rob lauriston <robtrish@noif.ncp.bc.ca>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 95 17:10:20 PDT
From: jds@equinox.shaysnet.com (John Shearer)
Subject: beer-balls
greeting!
A couple of quick questions for the collective:
Does anyone know where I can get those rubber tops for beer balls
-aka beer spheres? I have several of them left over from my younger
days of drinking the 'B' word, and thought they might be a good
solution to my 'beer storage' problems.
What I plan to do is prime a 5 gal batch with a half cup corn sugar
in solution, fill the ball, crimp the top with pliers, and wait. I
would of course watch for a time to make sure there are no leaks
around the top. I am used to force carbonating, but I guess I can
deal with a little sediment:-)
Here are the pros as I see them- They are the perfect size (5
gals). They are cheap (free plus the cost of the top - and who can
afford, or has the fridge space, to have several cornies hanging
around). I find the balls much easier to cool than cornies in an
outdoor setting. I can store them for several months at room temp
before use while they condition. No CO2 to muck with during the
parties. The taps are cheap, and can be purchased anywhere you can
buy beer balls.
This leads to my other question - does anyone have any 'cons' or
problems with all I've said?
Any info would be greatly appreciated as the summer months are
nearly upon us and my beer supplies are short! :-(
Please respond via private e-mail because I get behind on my digests
and I'm getting kind of desperate to find an economical solution.
(Heaven forbid I actually bottle a batch!) I will post a summary if
anything interesting comes through.
TIA
john
jds@equinox.shaysnet.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 95 16:44:52 CDT
From: ESSNER RICHARD L <C767SCB@SEMOVM.SEMO.EDU>
Subject: SIGNOFF homebrew%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
SIGNOFF homebrew%hpfcmr@hplabs.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 18:54:12 -0400
From: DocsBrew@aol.com
Subject: Toxic...like it or not!
In the hbd of 15 May, Domenick V. states:
>Sell your home! Wear a respirator! Get a grip!! How many mercury >amalgam
dental fillings have you got in your mouth, Dave? I have >about 4 or 5
containing many thermometers worth of mercury. Do >you consider your mouth a
total loss? Of course not, you blithely >chew your food and swallow it
without a thought. Quit scaring >people needlessly.
Sweden has recently outlawed mercury amalgams, and Germany has outlawed them
on pregnant women - don't you think that means something? Whether the ADA
says so or not, lots of research has shown dental amalgams to be quite toxic.
Many dentists are refusing to use them, and many patients are having them
removed.
>Scrub the brew kettle in question with a scouring pad, wash the >residue
down the drain and be done with it.
Hg is a toxic and hazardous substance in our sewers, too. It's illegal to
pour it down the drain in most places, so it's probably not a good practice
to suggest that on the 'net.
I remember a local elementary school that was evacuated by the fire
department when a thermometer broke. HazMat team responded and the whole
deal. Now, I realize that county agencies may over-react in order to pad
next year's budget, but they must have good reason, nonetheless.
Remember that textbooks are for reference, and don't always reflect real
life. Numbers are fine, but don't believe everything you read. Now, let's
quit playing with mercury, and let's put this thread to bed.
Doc.
"Chiropractic, Like Gravity, Works Whether You Believe In It Or Not."
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 19:18:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: dsherman@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Dan Sherman)
Subject: Re: Lautering gadgets
In HBD #1734, Bill Rucker asks about lautering gadgets.
This is not much of a gadget, but is very cheap (which
really appeals to me).
Take a cheap, metal pie tin, poke holes in the bottom, and suspend
it over your lauter tun. That's it. You can get your sparge water
into the tin however you want. Make the holes very small, at first
& enlarge them if your flow rate isn't high enough.
Cheers.
Dan Sherman
dsherman@ucsd.edu
San Diego, CA
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 May 95 02:11:00 UTC
From: j.conklin5@genie.geis.com
Subject: MASH SCHEDULE
I recently read something about Dr George Fix's recomended mash schedule
Could someone repost this or Email it to me
Thanks,
J.C. In Sunny Florida
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 May 1995 22:00:42 -0700
From: kwhitney@ix.netcom.com (Kenneth Whitney)
Subject: 10 gallon corny kegs
I am interested in fermenting five-gallon batches in corny kegs and
have considered the following options:
1) use a 5-gallon keg more or less as is and attach a blow-off hose to
one (or two) of the fittings (with poppets removed).
2) use a 5-gallon keg without a lid as an open fermenter.
3) drill a hole in the top of a 5-gallon keg and add a 3/4" to 1"
fitting for a blow-off hose.
4) use a closed 10-gallon corny keg (with air lock attached to the gas
in fitting).
Ideally, I would like to move the beer from the fermenter to 5-gallon
serving kegs via CO2 pressure.
It seems that a 10-gallon keg might be ideal.
Does anyone know of a source for 10 gallon (or greater than 5 gallon)
corny kegs? How about cost? What are the dimensions (is it the same
height as a 5-gallon with a larger radius)?
Any other (cheap) options for stainless steel fermenters?
------------------------------
Date: 20 May 95 05:59:28 EDT
From: "Robert W. Mech" <76271.3507@compuserve.com>
Subject: Hop Oil/Coconut Oil/Oil Slick
I few HBD's ago, I posted a message regarding the use of pineapple, and coconut.
I got a good response on the Pineapple, and alot of concern about the coconut
oil affecting head retention. My response to most people's concerns was the
fact that Hops too include oil, and dry hopping doesnt seem to affect head
retention (or at least not significantly).
So my question here is, how would coconut oil affect my head retention? Is
there some special property to Hop oil that makes it not affect your head? Is
"hop oil" really oil? I know that its not the same TYPE of oil, so lets not
point out the obvious. If I used a "Dried" form of coconut in the boil (like a
hop) would I extract too much oil? Or would it be better used in the secondary
(like a hop) to extract less oil, but more flavor? Im sure ill have a hard time
finding somone who has used coconut in thier beer, but maybe somone who has used
another oil rich indgreedient, could lend me thier wisdom.
Rob
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 20 May 1995 12:20:25 +0200
From: "terence tegner" <tegbrew@iaccess.za>
Subject: Copper breweries
Hello from Africa again
the recent discussion on copper breweries calls for comment from my
side. This is purely for information and not advertising.( not that
I would expect to sell from this side of the big pond.)
My company makes small breweries and supplies a complete turnkey
operation including brewer training so I think that we can comment
with a certain amount of experience.
We have installed 7 breweries around the country varying in size from
200 litres to 400 litres in brew length. All these breweries have
been made entirely from copper including the wort cooler and
fermentation vessels.
The beer is either an ale or a lager and has a taste that brings joy
to real beer drinkers. We recently had a master brewer from Berlin
try our beer. His comments were to the effact that we had produce a
nectar fit for the gods.
there are certain things that one has to watch, however. always
rinse with citric acid after cleaning with a scourer. In fact, we
recomend that the cleaning is done with a high pressure water jet and
then sterilise with an Iodophor.
A bit of history reserch shows that in the UK there is still a
brewery that uses copper fermenters as has been the case for the last
200 years over there.
The MBAA has an article on fermenter construction in their book
PRACTICAL BREWING which states that fermenters used to be made from
all sorts of materials, including wood, and were commonly lined with
copper.
My advice to them who are thinking of constucting homebreweries on
these line is, GO FOR IT. If its good enough for the master brewers,
its got to be good enough for me.
Regards Terence Tegner
"God Bless The Woman Who Gives Birth To A Brewer...Shakespeare.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1737, 05/22/95
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