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HOMEBREW Digest #1730
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/05/13 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1730 Sat 13 May 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Re: Counterflow chillers ("R. James Ray")
Natural Gas ("Timothy P. Laatsch)
Steeping Grains/DMS/Sanitation (Rob Reed)
Apricot Hefeweizen (Jeff Guillet)
Re: Wort Chillers ("Stephen E. Hansen")
Re: Electric stovetop brewing (MHANSEN)
Stove-top Brewing (mike hitchcock)
Re: Wort chillers (Dan Pack)
Steeping, I asked WHAT? (Russell Mast)
brewpubs in Maryland (Tim Lawson)
DMS: Causes and Remedies (DON)
Competition Results?????? (Lee Allison)
HBD Grain Summary (Pat) Babcock" <pbabcock@oeonline.com>
Counterflow Wort Chillers (A. J. deLange)
(Fwd) Firkin Dog Bolter (Pat) Babcock" <pbabcock@oeonline.com>
Cleaning beer lines (McKee Smith)
Gott?/Priming?/NW Local? (MClarke950)
Grand Cru? (MClarke950)
Re: #2(2) Homebrew Digest #17... (SMKRANZ)
alcohol and sweetness (Andy Walsh)
Careful w/ Quick Silver in your Brews! ("Dave Bradley::IC742::6-2556")
Old Malt = Compost??? (Robert_Ser)
FG and mouthfeel (Dave Whitman)
CO2 Regulator Pressure Fluctuations (Terence McGravey {91942})
Does steeping hops add bitterness? (david lawrence shea)
corn sugar/microwaves/Bell's yeast ("Allan Rubinoff")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 08:36:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: "R. James Ray" <ray902@uidaho.edu>
Subject: Re: Counterflow chillers
> My question is how have others built theirs and how close do you get
> your wort to the water temp that is cooling it?
>
> I've seen these things advertised by HB shops as being able to cool
> within 5 degrees of the cooling water....and they are smaller than mine.
> Does anybody know how the store models are constructed?
>
> -Jay Reeves in Huntsville, Alabama
I have used counterflow chillers for several years and I am on my third
and planning my fourth. My first one was the garden hose type chiller
with 25' of 3/8" heat exchanging coil. I had to add a valve for fine water
control because I frequently cooled down to 65-66F and had slow starts.
I confess I worried some about infection an killed this chiller with
excessive cleaning (chlorine damage). My second chiller was designed to
be more compact than the first. It was a partial counter-flow bucket.
An old blowoff hose jacketed the last 3' while the rest of the tubing sat
in the bucket. It used 4X the water and was not capable of over
chilling. The last chiller is the PVC jacketed heat exchanger. I used
4" PVC and wrapped the copper around a piece of 3" pipe. Three feet of
copper were lost while wrapping, so I ended up with about 22' in the
coil. I keep the flow of water counter to the flow of wort I made
baffles out of margarine tub lids. After trimming to the size of the
pipe I cut a slit from the center to the outside. These I twisted into
the coil to force the water to spiral inside of the PVC. The resulting
chiller is nearly as efficient as the hose type and much smaller (about
18" long). My next one will use larger pipe and set upright like a
bucket. The larger coils should make for less constricion and faster flow.
I hope this helps.
R. James Ray
Treaty Grounds Brewpub
Moscow, ID
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 11:52:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Timothy P. Laatsch <LAATSCH@kbs.msu.edu>" <LAATSCH@kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: Natural Gas
Hey All,
I seem to recall some discussion a few months back regarding using an old
water heater burner for a natural gas cooker. If anyone has any experience
rigging such an apparatus, please drop me a line----as I told another
on-liner, I'm having severe scale-up pains. I presume this natural gas
cooker can be used safely indoors, which is where my interest lies. Any info
on cost, output, safety, installation, etc. is greatly appreciated.
Bones
*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*
| Timothy Laatsch |email: laatsch@kbs.msu.edu | All-grain |
| Graduate Student |phone: 616-671-2329 | & |
| Michigan State University |fax: 616-671-2351 | Mostly |
| Kalamazoo, MI (Bell's Country)| | Insane |
| |
| "...like cops who hide holsters beneath their lapels, she had dangerous |
| things, but she downplayed them well...." ---Walt Mink |
*+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++*
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 11:00:20 -0400 (CDT)
From: Rob Reed <rhreed@icdc.delcoelect.com>
Subject: Steeping Grains/DMS/Sanitation
Michael_Millstone-P26948@email.mot.com asks about handling specialty grains:
There are probably as many procedures as there are brewers, but I do the
following:
Add crushed specialty grains to 170-175F brewing water and hold for 30 min.
I usually add 2.5-3.0 qts water per lb. grist. Remove grains, add extract,
continue. I'd suggest using one or more grain bags to minimize grain
separation hassles. Since I already own a vertical mash tun, I steep my
specialty grains in my tun with 3 qts. brewing water per pound (I don't
sparge).
The Papazian method of adding grains to cold water, bringing to a boil, and
removing grains works, but inconsistent results are common because the
amount of steep time depends on your heat source and the amount of
specialty grains used.
*****
Tom Baier <BAIER_T@SALT.PLU.EDU> asks about DMS:
While boiling time, chilling time, choice of malt, and less commonly
infections affect DMS quantity in the wort, in my experience malt selection
is the most significant factor. I find that DWC lager malt and domestic
"Pale" malt such as Klages and Harrington produce moderate DMS, while
Durst produces a large amount of DMS.
If you are presently using domestic pale malt, I'd try a couple of batches
with DWC or Munton and Fison Pale Ale malt: because these malts have
lower SMM levels, DMS levels in your finished beer should be lower.
*****
From: TomF775202@aol.com writes about sanitation:
> Also remember a brewery is not a large sterile facility, it is a plant, a
> factory if you will.
Granted, breweries are not 100% sterile facilites, but...
Professional brewers understand critical processes in brewing, e.g. the
bottling line is *less* critical because commercial beer is typically
pasteurized *after* bottling or canning. Also, tour routes in large
breweries typically don't include a walk through the primary fermentation
areas or yeast lab. Clearly, these are critical areas in the big scheme
of beer production.
Yeast pitching rates in sucessful commercial operations are sufficient
to kick-off fermentation quickly and minimize the chances of infection.
Most homebrewers habitually underpitch yeast and probably would be shocked
if they saw how much yeast is pitched in commercial operations.
Large commercial operations employ quality control at many phases in the
production of beer. By obtaining feedback in this way, contamination
levels are known with high confidence. If there is a problem, it is
resolved in a scientific way. Most homebrewers don't have these analytical
capabilities and overkill their sanitation to be on the safe side.
Cheers,
Rob Reed
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 15:46:00 GMT
From: jeff.guillet@lcabin.com (Jeff Guillet)
Subject: Apricot Hefeweizen
A while ago I remember reading something that claimed Pyramid's Apricot
Hefeweizen was brewed without *any* hops whatsoever. Can anyone
substantiate this? Any tips on brewing it?
My wife loves this stuff and I'd really like to make as close a clone as
possible for her. I'm going to get some apricot extract from HopTech
(the same supplier that Pyramid uses). How much should I use for 5
gallons? One 4oz bottle at bottling time?
I know, I know... "It's not *real* beer, blah, blah, blah." But she
likes it and I don't think it's too bad myself.
Thanks in advance!
-=Jeff=- Pacifica, CA
jeff.guillet@lcabin.com
* CMPQwk 1.42-R2 * Reg #1757 *
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 09:51:34 -0700
From: "Stephen E. Hansen" <hansen@hops.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wort Chillers
In HBD #1728 Danny Gilliam writes:
> In HBD1725, MHANSEN@ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu sez:
> <bunch-o-stuff-gone>
> > They use a counterflow chiller; the kind
> > that has the copper flowing through a large piece of PVC rather than a
> > garden hose.
>
> I built one of these counter-flow chillers that has the coiled
> copper in the PVC pipe. I designed it so the water flows the opposite
> direction of the wort flow in the copper tube, and also tried to set-up
> a spiral of the water inside the PVC using 90 degree elbows inside the
> thing (in theory it sounds cool, but...).
> ...
>
> My question is how have others built theirs and how close do you get
> your wort to the water temp that is cooling it?
>
For those who are interested in counterflow chillers the HBD archives
at ftp.stanford.edu has a file containing a number of HBD articles on
the use and construction of counterflow chillers. The file is called
counterflow.Z and is in /pub/clubs/homebrew/beer/docs.
I used an immersion chiller for many years but during our drought years
finally decided to build a counterflow chiller. A description of the
one I built is described in the above file along with others. As far as
its efficiency goes, it's almost too efficient for my purposes :-). I
brew ales and unless I turn the water flow *way* down the resulting wort
temperature is often too cold for the yeast. I haven't compared the
final wort temp against the incoming water temp but I'd guess their
pretty close. One reason for that is that I used 30 feet of hose/tubing.
I could have gotten by with about 20 feet given my water temp.
This chiller took a little effort to build, sliding 30 feet of copper
down an equivalent length of garden hose took some time. I should have
tried squirting some liquid soap down the hose. But it wasn't that
expensive and was pretty straightforward to build. I recommend it
highly.
Stephen Hansen
Homebrewer, Archivist
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Stephen Hansen, homebrewer | The church is near, but the road is icy.
Stanford University | The bar is far away, but I will walk carefully.
hansen@Hops.Stanford.EDU | -- Russian Proverb
http://www.stanford.edu/~hansen
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 13:02:09 -0600
From: MHANSEN@ctdmc.pmeh.uiowa.edu
Subject: Re: Electric stovetop brewing
Hey All,
Dan Pack asks in HBD 1728 about brewing on electric stoves.
After taking a hit on my house when I sold it last fall, I was forced to
move into an apartment until finances rebounded. Much to my dismay, it
was equipped with an electric stove. The first thing I did, even before
most of the boxes were unpacked, was to fill up my 33 qt enamel on
steel brewpot with water to see if I could bring it to a boil. To my surpise
and delight, it took only 30 minutes to come to a boil. I can do full boils on
my electric stove with no problem. However, I do need to keep the pot
almost all the way covered in order to keep the boil going, which is a
small problem only for volume reduction of all grain batches. My pot
covers two burners and since it rests directly on the elements, a certain
amount of carmelization will result. Not a problem except for the lightest
of beers. So, while not optimal, brewing with electric stoves can be
done.
Of course, none of this will be a problem when construction on my new
house, complete with custom basement brewery, is finished mid-June.
But that is a post for another time......:-)
Brew on my friends,
Mike (michael-d-hansen@uiowa.edu)
PS - Don't smoke grains. It makes you cough.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 95 12:12:13 -0700
From: mike@unival.com (mike hitchcock)
Subject: Stove-top Brewing
In HBD #1728 Dan Pack asked
> I'm limited to my stovetop so my question is is it practical
> to boil 6-7 gal of wort using an electric stove?
Yes! I've been using a 32 qt enamel-on-steel canning pot for the
last year (much cheaper than stainless, just don't chip the enamel!).
I too am limited to an electric stovetop, but the kettle fits over
two burners. With the lid on, I can bring 6 gal of water to boil
in about 20-25 minutes. And the boil does roll merrily. In fact,
I think the two separate heat sources genaerate a sort of convection
turbulence--with reasonable stirring, I've never had scorching
or sticking on the bottom when I do partial mashes.
Well, I guess I'm no longer a lurker. Hi all!
Mike Hitchcock
Portland, OR
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 12:26:26 -0700
From: danpack@grape-ape.che.caltech.edu (Dan Pack)
Subject: Re: Wort chillers
In HBD #1728 Danny Gilliam asks about his wort chiller:
> A test run with boiling water showed that it chilled the water to within
> 10 degrees. However, when I ran hot wort thru it, it only came within
> ~30 degrees of the cooling water. I finally realized that the wort was
> thicker than the water and the cooling efficency wouldn't be the same.
First let me say that I don't have a counter-flow chiller
but I'm a PhD chemical engineering student so I sort of understand
how these things work. I don't think your problem is with
the construction of your chiller. My guess is that your problem
is one of two things. (1) Your water flow is too slow or (2) your
wort flow is too fast. You want the water to flow as quickly as
possible so that it has little time to heat up. In contrast you
want the wort to flow slowly so that it spends more time in
contact with the cold water. Were you letting the wort siphon run
full speed? If so, try pinching off the end of the hose some
to slow down the flow. Of course, you have a compromise between
how much you cool the wort and how long it takes to cool the whole
thing. Some experimenting to figure out the optimum flow rate
is necessary.
What do you counter-flow chiller users say? How fast do you
run your wort through?
Hope this helps. Good luck.
Dan Pack
Pasadena, CA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 14:44:14 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Steeping, I asked WHAT?
> From: Michael_Millstone-P26948@email.mot.com
> Subject: Steeping Grains Question
> I am moving up to partial grain brewing and have a question when a
> recipe calls for "steeping" the specialty grains.
...
> What is the correct procedure and what might be the implications or
> consequences of doing one versus the other.
I don't know "the" correct procedure, but if you subject the grains to
too much heat for too long, they will leach tannins into your beer.
Tannins have a harsh bitterness and other flavors innappropriate for most
beers. How long is too long, how hot is too hot? A 5 minute boil is way
too much. 10 minutes at 170 never caused me much harm. I haven't personally
been anywhere in between.
> Subject: microwaves and dry hops
Weird. Anyway, I thought I'd mention that I often use a microwave to heat
water to a boil, and then use that to heat-sterilize various things the
same way one might use regular boiling water. It works. (This should be
obvious, but you never know.)
> There, in the fermenter, was a dead bat.
Ungh.
> From: rafe@lattice.com (Rafael C. Camarota / SJC Design Engineer )
> Subject: Wheat Beer Color
I rarely had ANY light colored beers using extract. Maybe that's
the problem and not the wheat. The only wheat beers I've made are
all-grain, and they've been VERY light in color.
> Subject: Wyeast 1338, Death by Mead, Ovens
>
> The reputation mead has for hangovers is unfortunately very, very true;
Ungh. Yep.
> From: eamonn@chinook.physics.utoronto.ca (Eamonn McKernan)
> Subject: Body and gravity
>
> Russel Mast asks about the relation between FG and "body".
Wow, someone with a name so much like mine! It doesn't matter much,
but I wasn't the one who asked, I simply responded to the question.
(And my name has two 'L's. It's no big deal, it's just, well, it's
my only name, at least that's what "they" still think.)
-R
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 95 17:36:36 EDT
From: Tim Lawson <lawson@clcunix.msj.edu>
Subject: brewpubs in Maryland
Can anyone recommend some good brewpubs that I should visit when I'm
in Baltimore and Washington, D.C. during the first weekend in June? Thanks!
Tim Lawson
Cincinnati, Ohio
lawson@clcunix.msj.edu
------------------------------
Date: 11 May 95 18:57:33 EDT
From: DON <DON@nova.mhs.compuserve.com>
Subject: DMS: Causes and Remedies
This thread has me going because I have experienced similar
problems with DMS. Tom Baier suggests possibilities in HBD
#1728. Here is my contribution, FWIW.
We know DMS is formed by precursors found in malt (SMM, for
example) and I won't delve into this since some of you have
already expounded in great detail on the subject. A couple of
points, however, should be restated to get at the bottom of Tom's
problem.
<1> DMS is constantly being produced when the wort is hot.
During the boil, DMS is driven off along with other volatiles and
water vapor. The longer the boil, the more DMS is driven off.
Tom says he boils for 75-90 minutes. Maybe he should boil for 2
hours, making sure he has a vigorous UNCOVERED boil.
<2> Malt type has a great influence on DMS production. Pale
malts, low kilned malts, and less modified malt have more DMS
precursors than other malts. For example, Tom says he brews
British Ales, does he use Pale Ale malt (low in DMS precursors),
or domestic 2-row (high in DMS precursors)? The choice of malt
will have an effect on final product.
<3> I am convinced that fermenter geometry does have an
effect on DMS and on other variables in brewing. Using corny
kegs for primary fermentation and secondary fermentation will, in
my experience, result in higher terminal gravities, more DMS and
other "undesirable" compounds in your beer. Given the small
surface area of a corny keg setup, and because it is an
inherently "closed" system (even with blowoff tubes), volatile
compounds like DMS have a harder time leaving your beer.
For example, I recently brewed a light, pale lager with only 5lb of
Klages malt. I fermented in a stainless steel pot (1:1 h to w ratio) for
10 days and racked to a corny keg. Boil time was only 75 minutes.
Result: DMS was well above the sensory threshold. Another brew, an
English Bitter, used 8 lbs of pale ale malt, fermented 7 days in same
primary fermenter, and 100 minute boil. Result: no detectable DMS.
The moral: I don't think that Tom's splashing wort is good
technique, but I also doubt it adds much to the DMS problem. His
mash temps seem OK, and even if they were high, wouldn't cause
DMS, IMO. High final gravities could be the result of his mash
temp, ingredients (i.e. high proporion of dextrin and/or crytal
malts), or unhealthy yeast (underpitching, not aerating, highly
flocculent stain, etc.).
Don Rudolph
Seattle, WA
don@nova.mhs.compuserve.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 16:37:47 -0700
From: grandcru@ix.netcom.com (Lee Allison)
Subject: Competition Results??????
Hello, All.
We had a thread a few weeks ago about posting competition results
here. I have a request for some results! I recently had a brew in
the MUGZ Land of the Muddy Waters Competition. I have tried
contacting Jeff Grillo, the competition organizer, but have been
unable. Jeff, if you are reading this please let me know how I did,
or if I can expect to get the judge's sheets sent to me.
Oh, and to all who asked me about where I got the 20 gal pot, I
got mine from Academy Sporting Goods in San Antonio, TX (210)590-0500
for a low-low $120. This includes a lid AND a strainer basket. They
said that they would be willing to UPS if the customer would pay the
freight costs. Good Luck.
P.S. 10 gallons of wort CAN boilover in a TWENTY gallon pot! ;^)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"At what point does a computer stop losing value because it's
obsolete, and start gaining value because it's an antique?
'Cuz, I think I'm there!"
Lee Allison a.k.a GrandCru@ix.netcom.com
San Antonio, Texas
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 20:42:51 +0000
From: "Patrick G. (Pat) Babcock" <pbabcock@oeonline.com>
Subject: HBD Grain Summary
Very recently someone on the digest asked about grain
characteristics (I'm sorry: I've misplaced both your post and your
e-mail address). A few months back, I asked the same question and
received a very nice HBD Grain Summary from Jim Dipalma (thanks
again, Jim!). In light of this, I'd like to return the favor to the
HBD. Send me an email note, and I forward the file to you. (And
anyone else who needs a copy ;-)
I believe it was Jim who compiled it for us. I am unsure whether or
not it is carried in the Stanford archives (or on Spencer's Beer
Page - but it should be ;-) I claim no credit.
Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock | "Drink all you want - I'll brew more!"
President, Brew-Master |
and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence
pbabcock@oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 16:58:56 -0500
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Subject: Counterflow Wort Chillers
In #1728 Danny Gilliam was concerned about the performance of his
counterflow wort chiller and wondered, in particular, how close exit wort
temperature is to coolant temperature in the experience of other users. The
answer is "that depends" and it depends on three things: 1. The rate at
which the cooling water flows through the jacket 2. The rate at which the
wort flows through the inner tube and 3. The thermal conductivity between
the wort and coolant channels. The faster the coolant flow, the slower the
wort flow and the better the thermal conductivity the closer the exiting
wort temperature will be to the entering coolant temperature.
To quantify the performance of such chillers I have come up with a
parameter I call the 'Q' of a chiller. A chiller consisting of 26 feet of
3/8 refrigeration tubing in a 3" coil inside a 5" PVC pipe (very similar to
the chiller described) has a measured Q of about 65 gph. The easiest way to
benefit from knowledge of Q is to note that if coolant flow is maintained
at or above Q and wort flow at or below Q/5 then the chiller operates with
better than 98.5% efficiency. Efficiency is defined as 100(Wort Inlet Temp
- Wort Outlet Temp)/(Wort Inlet Temp - Coolant Inlet Temp) so that if the
wort outlet temperature is the same as the coolant inlet temperature the
efficiency is 100%. Also 98.5% efficiency means that the wort temperature
drop is 98.5% of the inlet wort - inlet coolant difference. For a typical
situation the wort would be at say 200F and and the coolant at 50F for a
drop of 150F. 98.5% of this is 147.75F so that the exiting wort temperature
would be at 52.25F. Thus for a chiller like the one described one ought to
get outlet wort within about 2 degrees of the coolant as long as the
coolant flow is at 65gph or more and the wort flow at 15 gph or less. Note
that increasing coolant flow improves efficiency but not dramatically.
Increasing it to 10Q (keeping wort flow at Q/5) changes the efficiency to
99.3%. Similarly, decreasing wort flow increases efficiency but not
appreciably (we are already at 98% at coolant flow Q and can only go to
100%). Conversely, increasing wort flow has a dramatic effect on
efficiency. Doubling it to 2Q/5 (coolant flow at Q) drops efficiency to
85%. Similarly, dropping coolant flow below Q degrades performance but not
so dramatically at first. A coolant flow of 0.3Q gives 95% efficiency (for
wort flow of Q/5) but further reduction to 0.2Q lowers efficiency to 80%.
Wort should not differ appreciably from water in its performance. It is a
little denser so that, for example, in the case of a 1.055 wort one may
wish to keep the wort flow less than Q/(5*1.055) but this amounts to a flow
rate reduction of only 5% or so.
One thing to look out for in using these things is to make sure that the
jacket is filled with water and not air. It is advisable to operate them in
a vertical position with the coolant outlet at the top so that any air
which enters can escape.
As a final note the numbers given above should be taken as representative -
not exact. There are several sources of error (i.e. the measurements
required) in the determination of Q and, while similar chillers have
similar Q's, they are not exactly the same.
AJ
ajdel@interramp.com
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 20:53:52 +0000
From: "Patrick G. (Pat) Babcock" <pbabcock@oeonline.com>
Subject: (Fwd) Firkin Dog Bolter
Hello again (and on such short notice)!
Does anyone have a recipe (all-grain, please) for FIrkin Dog Bolter?
I understand the mash schedule is particularly important to achieve
the flavor profile of this brew...
Private e-mail fine.
Thanks!
Patrick (Pat) G. Babcock | "Drink all you want - I'll brew more!"
President, Brew-Master |
and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence
pbabcock@oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 20:21:53 -0500
From: mcksmith@iadfw.net (McKee Smith)
Subject: Cleaning beer lines
I have a Cornelius keg system with a single tap attached to the front of my
refrigerator. While I have a brush and wrench to take apart and clean the
tap, does anyone have a suggestion on the best way to clean the lines. I
was without beer of about two month, a sad state but one I have corrected!
The little floaties I'm now finding in my beer make me think I need to
clean the line as I have already cleaned the tap. The tap was a mess of
mold and while I can't see anything in the clear line, I'm sure something
is in there.
I was thinking about filling a keg with B.E.S.T. solution and running that
through. I was then going to flush with hot water.
Anyone have a better suggestion? Thanks in advance!
McKee Smith Email: Mcksmith@iadfw.net
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 22:19:48 -0400
From: MClarke950@aol.com
Subject: Gott?/Priming?/NW Local?
------------------------------
Question: Gott Digest
A couple of weeks ago someone offered to mail out a digest of Gott
cooler ideas. I recently tried to contact him but he has already left
for Chicago. Could someone please email me a copy of this?
------------------------------
Question: Priming FAQ?
Awhile ago someone metioned a priming FAQ (or at least
a well written article). Would someone please email me a copy
or let me know what the digest number was so I can retrieve it?
------------------------------
*** LOCAL QUESTION -SEATTLE/PORTLAND/VANCOUVER BC- ***
I'm trying to find a wide selection of Belgium Ales here in the Great
Northwest. Can anyone point me to some decent shops? Actually any
shops that carry a wide selection of beers would be a help.
Private email encouraged, will compile a listing if I get enough
bites and will send it out if requested.
------------------------------
BTW Its good to hear that there are woman brewers out there.
TIA
Mike
MClarke950@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 May 1995 23:14:49 -0400
From: MClarke950@aol.com
Subject: Grand Cru?
Howdy again,
Is Grand Cru a style, sub style or brand name? I've seen the name
mentioned in a few brewing publications, but no real info. Any info
would help satisfy my curiousity, sample recipes a plus!
Private email are fine, If I got a decent response I'll post what I find
out.
TIA
Mike
MClarke@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 00:07:58 -0400
From: SMKRANZ@aol.com
Subject: Re: #2(2) Homebrew Digest #17...
>I am about to make my forst batch of home brew and I would like >any tips
anyone might have for a successful first run. Thanks in >advance for any
help.
I've been brewing for about 9 months (extract/grain, no mashing yet), and
believe that the first big hurdle is getting the first batch under your belt
to prove to yourself that you can in fact make beer that is at least as good
as what you buy in the store...even on your first run. I also edit a
homebrew club newsletter (in Maryland).
The strongest suggestion I make to new brewers (not that I'm all that
experienced) is to pick out a couple of relatively simple extract or
extract/specialty grain recipes from The Complete Joy of Homebrewing, take
the recipe to a supply shop, get all the ingredients (allowing for some
variation on the hop varieties and brand of extract, depending on what your
supplier has in stock) and follow the recipe closely. I have only had a
couple of batches (out of 22) go "south" on me, and those that did were the
ones where I followed the instructions on one of the "kit in a can" deals,
didn't boild the wort and added a ton of sugar even though all the brewing
literature says not to do these things.
Steve Kranz
smkranz@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 95 11:09:22 EDT
From: awalsh@pop03.ca.us.ibm.net (Andy Walsh)
Subject: alcohol and sweetness
The body/mouthfeel debate reminds me of something a bit strange
(IMHO) that can be found both in the Miller and Fix brewing books. (it is
not surprising they tend to agree with other since I believe George Fix
had some input into Dave Miller's). That is, that alcohol increases
perceived sweetness. I agree with Dave Draper that this seems
counterintuitive and is contrary to my own experience too.
Every homebrewed beer that I have made that tastes sweet has had
a high terminal gravity (eg. >1.018). That does not mean that every
beer with a high terminal gravity tastes sweet. I recently made a stout
that finished around 1.020 that had quite a dry taste. The darker or
stronger beers (ie high OG) seem to cope a little better with high
FG.
I know that if I make (say) two American pale ales, both with OG
around 1.055, one of which finishes around 1.012, and the other
1.018, that the latter will definitely taste sweeter than the former.
The former has more alcohol. If I understand Miller and Fix correctly,
the former should be sweeter.
Or maybe they are saying that if two similar beers with different OG's,
finish with the same FG, that the one with the higher OG will be
sweeter due to the higher alcohol content.
It seems bleeding obvious to me that high FG causes higher
perceived sweetness, and that low FG (ie. more alcohol) causes a drier
beer. Think of vodka - as close to pure ethanol as most are likely to
try - is that sweet? Most would say no.
I am also aware of the theory that the sugars left in beer after
fermentation finishes are not perceived as sweet, but contribute to
those elusive terms "body/mouthfeel". Well I perceive sweetness.
Perhaps this is caused by *incomplete* fermentations, in which
the "sweet" tasting sugars have not been fermented due to some
brewing fault, but I don't really believe this is true in all cases.
Now I have a pretty high level of respect for both these authors,
and so all I can think is that I have misunderstood their comments
somehow. If anyone can enlighten me as to why alcohol causes
sweetness I'd appreciate it,
*****************************
//// Andy Walsh from Sydney
//// awalsh@ibm.net
//// phone 61 2 369 5711
*****************************
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 06:40:38 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dave Bradley::IC742::6-2556" <BRADLEY_DAVID_A@Lilly.com>
Subject: Careful w/ Quick Silver in your Brews!
Regarding the recent posts about mercury contamination:
Don't play around with this stuff! Reading the MSDS for mercury or
its oxide is * very * sobering, even for someone like myself who
deals with potent toxins daily.
Some Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) excerpts are:
"Acute conc'n. of 28 mg/cubic meter immediately dangerous to life
"or health. Ingestion causes neurotoxic/nephrotoxicity. Chronic
"(low level ie in beer) exposure causes mercurialism, characterized
"by fine tremors and erethism (mostly psych. disturbances), and may
"lead to mercury build up in the eye, disturbing vision. Threshold
"Limit Value (TLV) = 0.05mg/M3 and would be exceeded if the contents
"of a small clinical thermometer were dispersed in a closed
"100'x100'x15' room.
Important points:
1. Mercury is very toxic at low doses, adsorbed by contact, inhalation
or ingestion.
2. Mercury is somewhat volatile, as are its oxides formed on air
exposure, and these vapors HAVE KILLED people who were not
aware of this volatility.
3. Mercury forms complexes with a variety of other metals/elements,
and I do not believe you can form one complex (ie Hg-S) with
complete exclusion of, say, Hg-Fe(O)x in your brew pot.
4. Don't use Hg thermometers!
Many (most?) industrial applications have been replacing these
with thermocouples or with alcohol thermometers for years now,
due to to this toxicity, waste disposal issues, and a steady
dwindling of Hg recoverers for wastes.
My apologies for the bandwidth, and I appreciate/look forward to brutal
sarcasm as much as anybody, but this is a serious issue. If you
have spilled mercury at home, I can suggest some cleanup hints.
But if you've done this in your cookware, I think you should
seriously consider the item(s) a loss. There are ways to "leech"
the mercury, using strong acids, but this is impossible to do in
the home. Oh yes, don't pitch the pots in MY water supply
either:::contact a local/state environmental agency and
seek their advice for disposal. Seriously.
db in Indy
From: BRADLEY DAVID A (MCVAX0::RC65036)
To: VMS MAIL ADDRESSEE (IN::"homebrew@hpfcmi.fc.hp.com")
cc: BRADLEY DAVID A (MCVAX0::RC65036)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 95 07:57:44 edt
From: Robert_Ser@ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: Old Malt = Compost???
Message:
Brewing buddies,
Can any of you tell me what the shelf life of malt is? I have
about three pounds of Canadian 2-row (crushed) that has been kept
in a sealed plastic bag in a cold room for about three months now. Is
it still good enough to use, or should I just dump it on my compost
heap? (That would be a big three dollar loss, but heack, I hate
waste!)
Rob in Montreal
Robert_Ser@ceo.sts-systems.ca
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 08:14:35 -0400
From: dwhitman@rohmhaas.com (Dave Whitman)
Subject: FG and mouthfeel
Another lurker comes out of hiding.
I've been following the thread on the effect of FG on mouthfeel with some
interest, but I think that one important factor has been ignored.
FG measures the amount of stuff in solution in your beer, but it doesn't
tell you much about the chemical nature of that stuff. In particular,
there is essentially no information about molecular weight of the dissolved
materials. Viscosity of solutions is profoundly affected by the molecular
weight of the dissolved materials.
To a first approximation, amino acids will make a similar contribution to
FG as an identical weight of protein (protein is a high molecular weight
polymer which is a string of amino acids connected together). Glucose will
have a similar contribution to FG as the same weight of an oligio or
poly-sacharride. However, in each case, the low molecular weight material
(amino acids, glucose) will have MUCH less contribution to viscosity when
compared to the high molecular weight material (protein, polysacharrides,
etc). I submit that viscosity is a significant contributor to mouthfeel.
I think that the missing piece of the puzzle on mouthfeel is in the details
of the enzymatic activity during mashing, which sets the molecular weight
and molecular structure of the unfermentable materials, and thus the
viscosity of the beer.
Imagine two beers with equal FG's. In one beer, the unfermentable
materials are all tri-sacharrides and low molecular weight peptides. This
beer has low viscosity, and feels watery in the mouth. The other beer has
penta-sacharrides and medium molecular weight proteins. It has a higher
viscosity, and feels thick and rich in the mouth.
- ---
Dave Whitman
Rohm and Haas Specialty Materials
dwhitman@rohmhaas.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 08:26:55 -0400
From: Terence McGravey {91942} <tpm@swl.msd.ray.com>
Subject: CO2 Regulator Pressure Fluctuations
Hello All,
I've just began kegging beer using Corny kegs and a CO2 sytem
and on my sixth keg (now being dispensed) I've been having some
pressure fluctuations. If I set the regulator to say 8 lbs. the
regulator can be heard filling the tank and then stop at 8 lbs. .
But then if I check it say an hour later, the pressure is at 15 lbs. .
All previous kegs stayed right on the money where i set it. I bought
the regulator new through Superior. The fermentation is complete as I
achieved my FG. It worked perfectly up until this batch.
Do regulators require some lubrication that I don't know about ?
My feelings are that there is something wrong with the regulator but
I figured I would tap the knowledge of the Digest befor I sent it
back. It is a double guage regulator on a 10 lb. tank.
Thanks in advance for all input !
Terry McGravey tpm@swl.msd.ray.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 08:10:02 -0500 (EST)
From: david lawrence shea <dshea@indiana.edu>
Subject: Does steeping hops add bitterness?
I sampled my latest batch last night, a SNPA clone with a low OG (23 pts
efficiency, gads how did that happen, maybe the homebrew guy measured my
grain incorrectly. Anyway, this was the first time I steeped my
finishing/aroma hops at the end of the boil for 15 minutes or so. The
beer, although green (6 days), had a great hop taste to it but was
slightly more bitter than I anticipated. I am sure this will fade in a
week or so but it got me to thinking. If one steeps hops for 15-20
minutes, does this contribute IBU's? My intuition says no, but since they
are steeped at close to boiling temps, my brain thinks that there may be a
possibility. Any comments or ideas?
David L. Shea
Indiana University
dshea@ucs.indiana.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 May 95 09:54:42 EST
From: "Allan Rubinoff" <rubinoff@BBN.COM>
Subject: corn sugar/microwaves/Bell's yeast
Several things in HBD #1729 caught my eye:
Alan Keig (akeig@library.adelaide.edu.au) says:
>Apparently there's a terminology difference between the United States
>and Australia; what you call Corn Sugar is known as Dextrose [aka
>Sucrose] over here. Dried Corn Syrup is a wheat-derived adjunct. This
>leaves me with the question: what do you call Dried Corn Syrup in the
>USA?
I don't know if it's exactly the same thing, but the closest equivalent
would probably be wheat malt extract, which can be obtained either as a
syrup or in dried form.
The terminology difference is interesting. The word "corn" actually
just means "grain," not a specific grain. However, the word is
generally applied to whatever the predominant grain is locally. In
Great Britain, it's wheat, so wheat is often referred to as "corn."
When the English started settling North America, the predominant grain
was maize, so the term "corn" was applied to it.
************
On sanitizing in microwave ovens:
A lot of the confusion here is due to the fact that people are talking
about two entirely different things:
1) Sanitizing with boiling water, which is heated in the microwave.
2) Sanitizing *dry* things in the microwave.
Obviously #1 works. Boiling water is an effective sanitizer, and the
microwave oven is a convenient way to boil water.
The confusion is about #2. The theory, I guess, is that anything you're
trying to kill (microbes, wild yeast, etc.) contains water, so the
microwaves should kill them. I don't know whether this is true, but I
wouldn't risk it.
In any case, the folks who say "of course you can sanitize in the
microwave" seem to be thinking about scenario #1, while the folks who
say you can't are thinking of scenario #2. Apples and oranges.
**************
Bob Paolino (uswlsrap@ibmmail.com) says:
>I have a very happy starter going, born of the dregs of a bottle of BPA.
>Question: is it 1056 or is it something else (and if so, what)?
>Maybe one of you kazoo guys (Tim or Tom) can answer with some
>authority?
I don't know what strain it is, but it's certainly an extremely
unflocculant one. During a recent trip to Michigan, I had some bottles
of the PA. I noticed that rather than clumping at the bottom of the
bottle (as in most bottle-conditioned beers), the yeast resembled the
stuff in a snow shaker. I couldn't avoid getting a lot of it in my glass.
Despite this, I was extremely impressed with Bell's beers. Served on
draft at the pub adjoining the brewery, the PA was a religious
experience. Extremely fruity -- which makes me think the yeast is not
1056.
Anybody know if Bell's beers will be available on the east coast anytime
soon? If not, I guess I'll have to visit my parents a little more
often . . .
-Allan Rubinoff <rubinoff@bbn.com>
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1730, 05/13/95
*************************************
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