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HOMEBREW Digest #1698
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/04/05 PDT
HOMEBREW Digest #1698 Wed 05 April 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
Covered boils (Aidan Heerdegen)
Info Req'd on 'The Beer Machine' ("Balstrup, Peter")
New HomeBrew related Web Page: HBU BBS Network (Andrew Patrick)
bad beer (Hristo)
Wheat Beer Question (great)
New Thermometer and RIMS plumbing question (Chris Barnhart)
Hops: to trellis or not to trellis? That is the question.. (mark evans)
racking off trub ("Bob Hall" )
HELP: English Ale (George Gale & Co.'s Champion Ale) (Philip DiFalco)
Re: unmalted adjuncts in extract, etc (spencer)
Center for Brewing Studies? (PatrickM50)
Oxygen in wort, Lead in crystal (Kelly Jones)
beer for wedding ("Dulisse, Brian")
Re-using hops ("Lee C. Bussy")
Honey for Priming (Steven W. Schultz )
subspace info (CGEDEN)
Need for Secondary (Rob Emenecker)
O2 vs. Air "The final word; My mistake" (Dr. David C. Harsh)
Disaster looking for a place to happen! (Gary Flock)
North Carolina Concerns (Jay Rustine)
RE: Mitch's Red Beers (uswlsrap)
cold/hot break....chill haze (Dan Pack)
Ale vs Lager Yeasts in Bruce and Kays.... (Jeff Easter)
honey priming/new counterflow chiller (Andrew J Donohue)
mail order - HopTech and others ("Harold R. Wood")
Racking to secondary (t.duchesneau)
Homebrew archives (Philip Gravel)
Contaminated batch (TPuskar)
Glass carboys--big ones (TPuskar)
Honey Beer Revisited (Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 )
Is lager still good? (DUBOVIK)
Road Trip Info Request - Clearwater & Louisville ("Yunke, Pat")
Sam Adams Double Bock (Stephen Meredith)
Brewpub recipes and posting compet. (Jim Busch)
Priming with Light DME (Rob Emenecker)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 14:36:36 EST
From: Aidan Heerdegen <aidan@rschp2.anu.edu.au>
Subject: Covered boils
Re: The importance of covered boils
Jim Busch (busch@mews.gsfc.nasa.gov) says:
| I was not referring to DMS. The condensate contains very
| unpleasent bitter compounds that are better left out of the wort.
The brewer chappy at the local brew pub told me I should keep my
boils partially covered for a couple of reasons. Firstly to get
a more vigorous boil (mine was a little wimpy even with a 4 kW
element and 40L of wort) and secondly he said oxidation can occur
in the boil if a layer of steam is not covering the wort, and
with my boiler I needed to keep the lid partially on to make sure
there was this layer ...
Comments?
Had a minor disaster with my mash on the weekend ... the pipe
that comes out of the bottom of my 48L mash/lauter tun cooler
popped out .. and the 25L of mash liquor just poured out . I
was too late to save it ... *sigh*.
Luckily I brew outside, so it was no big trauma viz a viz
cleaning up (i.e. no cleaning necessary), but it was getting on
in the brew day and I couldn't be bothered thinking up some
clever but time consuming way of re-using the grain, so I tossed
it and started another mash. This time, instead of trying to be
too clever and have the pipe coming out the bottom of my mash
tun, I put the plug back in and used a stand-pipe arrangement
(luckily for me my hoses and manifold tubing all fitted together
snugly, so it took 5 mins to convert to the new system). This
worked perfectly, so I'll use this method from now on.
I have been thinking about mashout (a bit of a problem for a
single infusion man like myself who works his tun to the limit
already!) and recirculating to establish a grain bed filter. I
experimented with my my batch yesterday on something to combine
both, not terribly original, but what the hell. I drew off
approx 4L of the mash liquor into my kettle and brought it to the
boil and then added it back into the mash, thereby heating the
grain bed and recirculating at the same time. It seemed to work
ok, except 4L was not nearly enough to bring the grain bed up to
a mashout type temp, so next time I'll draw off more liquid and
top up the mash tun with water from my sparge tun so as not to
leave the grain bed dry (is this a problem? I just seem to
remember a big debate one time between the "never let the water
level fall below the level of your grain" vs "who cares" schools
of thought).
Can anyone see any problems with this?
Cheers
Aidan [brewing 40/50L batches coz his flatmate drinks too fast]
- --
Aidan Heerdegen
e-mail: aidan@rschp2.anu.edu.au
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 95 17:54:00 EST
From: "Balstrup, Peter" <PBalstru@VITGCOM1.TELECOM.com.au>
Subject: Info Req'd on 'The Beer Machine'
Hello World,
I am a home-brewer in Melbourne, Australia. I am considering buying a "Beer
Machine" which is manufactured by the "Great American Micro Brewery Company"
at Puyallup, Washington. It is a plastic barrel wherein fermentation takes
place, and from which the beer is dispensed. It has a pressure relief valve
which apparently allows a certain amount of carbonation to remain within the
barrel. A CO2 bulb is incorporated in order to maintain a positive inside
pressure.
Can someone please give me an idea of how effective these Beer Machines are?
I am a little skeptical about the product, but it could be a labor-saving
device if it works well. They cost $199 (Australian) so I wouldn't like to
waste that kind of money on a product that may not work.
Hoping someone can help me.
Regards
Peter Balstrup
PBalstru@vitgcom1.telecom.com.au
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 04:01:06 -0500 (CDT)
From: Andrew Patrick <andnator@mcs.com>
Subject: New HomeBrew related Web Page: HBU BBS Network
I am pleased to announce that the HomeBrew U BBS Network now has its own
Web Page. The relevant URL is:
http://www.mcs.com/~andnator/hbu.html
Current highlights include a very detailed listing of National and
Midwestern homebrew events. You can send e-mail to contacts directly
from the Web Page itself.
Andy Patrick (andnator@mcs.com)
Brewmaster, Harlem Brewing Co, Inc.
Certified Beer Judge; Founder, HomeBrew U BBS Network:
Chicago 708-705-7263, Houston 713-923-6418, Milwaukee 414-238-9074
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 02:57:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: Hristo <CURLEYS@carleton.edu>
Subject: bad beer
My friend and I have been brewing only for a couple of months, and we're still
inexperienced enough to be able to admit to brewing a really lousy beer. In
fact, we just put out a petroleum-flavored bock. So, my question is one that
I'm sure every homebrewer has to face once in a while: what to do with a
irrepairably bad batch of beer? Obviously, there are tons of recipies calling
for beer, which is fine, but we're looking for really creative solutions for
the problem. Specifiaclly, I've heard that beer makes a good hair conditioner.
Anyone ever tried this? Or have any better ideas?
Sorry to take up room with such a whimsical request. Also, since I'm pretty
much a nasty lurker, let me take this opportunity to thank everyone on the list
for a very helpful publication.
private answers are, of course, probably best in this case.
-SC
CURLEYS@carleton.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 07:13:56 -0500
From: great@ATW.fullfeed.com
Subject: Wheat Beer Question
I am Looking For a Recipe for a Wheat Beer made from a Wheat Extract.
If Anyone Has One I would really appreciated It. Thanks.
Daniel R Dean
<Internet Address>great@ATW.fullfeed.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 8:30:37 EDT
From: Chris Barnhart <clbarnha@letterkenn-emh1.army.mil>
Subject: New Thermometer and RIMS plumbing question
Hi all,
I was busily scrounging around for an electronic thermometer for my
soon to be completed 3 barrel "Sabco type" RIMS system when I came
across the following thermometer:
Checktemp Digital Electronic Thermometer
Range -58 - 302F
Resolution .1F (-58F - 199.9F), 1F (200 - 302F)
Accuracy .4F (-4 - 194F)
3.3F cable w/remote SS probe
Built in calibration test device (Alfa Aesar lists this, Techni-tool
lists a NIST calibration certificate)
Available in Celsius and Fahrenheit versions.
Price: $29.00
Sounded like a pretty handy thermometer and the price is right.
I just ordered one from Techni-Tool out of PA (610-941-2400). Alfa
Aesar also carries the Checktemp but only sells to corporate accounts.
(No affiliation, blah, blah, blah)
Also, a question for the collective wisdom of RIMS builders. How did
you plumb your systems? 1/2 rigid copper? 1/2 refrigeration tube and
compression fittings?
Chris "Barny" Barnhart
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:03:28 -0600
From: evanms@lcac1.loras.edu (mark evans)
Subject: Hops: to trellis or not to trellis? That is the question..
I have grown hops three seasons (four poles this season). I have grown
them up sturdy strings that are affixed to 18-20 foot poles. Two years ago
I barely weathered a severely stormy summer with only one pole disaster.
This year, one of my poles (actually slender tree trunks I weed out of a
nearby woods) broke upon lowering it last fall.
Question: how do others support their hop vines/bines. I know this comes
up every year, but if one isn't changing their method, one pays no
attention. I seem to recall some people mention that thy grew vines on
trellises. Perhaps hop growers could e-mail me or the HBD with their hop
support methods. How high a trellis/screen? How did the yield compare to
strings? Poles? HOw did you construct it? How high is the support? I'm
actually looking for how LOW I can get away with.
TIA
Brewfully, Mark
p.s. Hey, am I on the top ten list for most-posts-to-HBD-this-year yet? *ho ho*
=========================================================
"I do a lot of different things.
I just can't remember what they are right now."
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 09:45:13 -0400
From: "Bob Hall" <bhall@sparc.ecology.uga.edu>
Subject: racking off trub
Thomas Aylesworth writes regarding the merit of racking beer off hops and
protein trub:
> However, even when I did extract brews and left the fermenting
>beer on the break material, I didn't notice any significant off-flavors
>I would attribute to this. This could be just because I was not as
>experienced a brewer/beer taster.
What type of beers do you brew? If I make fruity, hoppy pale ales or dark ales,
I tend not to notice if I leave any break material in the carboy, perhaps
because the flavor profile of these beers is already dominated by esters and the
like. However, a Munich Helles, or any other light tasting lager will clearly
show the effects of sitting on the trub in terms of pholic and perhaps oxidized
flavors. I made a Munich dunkel last spring that was somewhat phenolic, and
which grew worse through time. I attributed this flavor and lack of stability to
a poor job of racking the beer off the trub (it was fermented at 50 F.). Other
opinions/suggestions?
Bob Hall
bhall@sparc.ecology.uga.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 09:30:51 -0400
From: Philip DiFalco <sxupjd@aikman.fnma.COM>
Subject: HELP: English Ale (George Gale & Co.'s Champion Ale)
A friend and I are starting a small cider winery in Virginia.
In our start-up pursuits, we have come across about a thousand
cases of English ales and sparkling-ciders, for the asking.
These cases have been stored in a non-climate controlled environment
for 5 to 7 years (with temperatures ranging between 30^F and 95^F
through the seasons).
The label's of the two different Ales display the following information:
- Brewed and Bottled at the Brewery,
Horndean, Hampshire, England
George Gale & Co's
Champion Ale
Contents 16-9 fl.oz.
* these bottles include a Trade Mark, "SERVABO FIDEM".
- FELINFOEL
Double Dragon Export Ale
Contents 11 oz., 325 ml.
* these "11 oz. can" mention the following:
Double Dragon Export Ale From the oldest canners of beer in the world.
An ale of exceptional quality with a character taste and flavour that is
the envy of real ale brewers the world over.
Brewed and canned at the Felinfoel Brewery.
Felinfoel, Llanelli,
Dyfed, Wales, U.K.
The "Champion Ale" is quite good, despite the non-ideal storage conditions.
I'm hesitant to try the FELINFOEL, considering how long it has been in the can.
If anyone knows anything about either of these ales, or anything about these
brewery's, or the address of these brewery's (or ph.#), please email me.
We are investigating whether we might be able to resell or give away (with
a deposit for the bottles) these ales. If anyone knows of any laws prohibiting
or allowing such transactions, please email me.
Thanks in advance for any help.
- ---
Philip DiFalco, sxupjd@fnma.com
FannieMae, 3900 Wisconsin Ave., NW, Washington, DC 20016
1-202-752-2812; 1-800-SKY-FNMA (PIN#471-1735)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 10:16:46 EDT
From: spencer@med.umich.edu
Subject: Re: unmalted adjuncts in extract, etc
Russell Mast wrote about unmalted adjuncts in extract, etc:
> Well, if you think you're time is worth less than $1.25 an hour,
> it's worth it.
My "hobby" time is worth $0/hr, essentially. That is, if I wasn't
brewing, I still wouldn't get paid. At least I'm doing something I
enjoy.
=Spencer Thomas in Ann Arbor, MI
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:28:37 -0400
From: PatrickM50@aol.com
Subject: Center for Brewing Studies?
Lenny posts:
<"Can anyone send me the mailing address for the Center for Brewing Studies
in San Francisco?"
I Don't know of a Center for Brewing Studies in SF per se, but 40 miles north
of The City in the town of Rohnert Park, CA is the Craft Brewing Business
Institute, located at Sonoma State University and under the direction of
George Johnson. Its charter is to keep track of the Craft Brewing business,
to generate business and financial rates and to report on the impact of the
Craft Brewing business on the economy. It is essentially a clearing house
for information re: the commercial Craft Brewing industry and is not really
directed toward homebrewing. George is a very personable fellow and can be
reached at cbbi@sonoma.edu. He also has a page set up on the WWW, i.e.=
http://www.sonoma.edu/cbbi/.
I'm not sure if this is what Lenny was specifically asking about - perhaps
he needs info on the Brewing research going on at Univ. of Ca at Davis. Any
takers there?
Pat
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 08:49:21 -0600
From: k-jones@ee.utah.edu (Kelly Jones)
Subject: Oxygen in wort, Lead in crystal
AJ DeLange has the correct interpretation on oxgenation. That is, air will
oxygenate water to 8.5 ppm, whereas oxygen will oxygenate water to 40 ppm,
but it will eventually fall back to 8.5 ppm from being left in contact with
air.
However, there is one point we may be missing: How long does it take the
40 ppm to fall to 8.5 ppm, compared with how long it takes the yeast to
uptake the O2? If the yeast can absorb the O2 fairly rapidly, and if this
much O2 is indeed beneficial, then there may well be an advantage to using
pure oxygen, AJ's argument notwithstanding. Any thoughts?
Also, Steve (on the subject of lead in crystal) said:
>Second: There ain't any lead there.
Whoa there! What kind of ceramics are they teaching in the grad program
there at Umass/Dartmouth? :)
There is a great deal of lead in lead crystal, lead (as lead oxide) is what
gives the crystal its high refractive index, or brilliance. When a crystal
says "40% lead" or whatever, that's just what it means.
Common sense tells us that this lead won't leach out, as it is too tightly
bound in the glass matrix. However, I believe this is one area where
common sense has been proven wrong, and it is somewhat dangerous to used
leaded glass/crystal for long-term storage of food materials.
Kelly
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 95 10:53:00 EST
From: "Dulisse, Brian" <BBD4@CIPCOD1.EM.CDC.GOV>
Subject: beer for wedding
a friend of mine is getting married in july near hartford, ct. she does not
want to serve megaswill beer at the reception, and so has negotiated with
the caterer to select the beer brands herself. she would like to stick with
things that are going to be in the sam adams/pete's wicked ale price range.
does anyone from the northeast have some suggestions for regional
beers/beers available in the hartford area ? e-mail preferred. thanks
bd
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 10:26:02 +0000
From: "Lee C. Bussy" <leeb@southwind.net>
Subject: Re-using hops
Kirk Fleming ask about re-using a dry hop in the next batch for a
bittering hop.......
Kirk, you're not Scottish are you? ;^)
I suppose it could be done but in your example... Cascades, they
would more than likely not be a good candidate for a bittering hop as
they tend to leave a more floral taste (best way I can explain it)
when boiled for too long and I generally fault a beer in competition
that displays that characteristic. Although, YMMV of course.
I don't know if you read Noonans book on Scottish Ales but he states
that as you only utilize ~ 30% of the available bittering acids, the
hops may be and are being re-used in a second runnings beer.
Now that's cheap! (er I mean thrifty!)
- --
-Lee Bussy | The 4 Basic Foodgroups.... |
leeb@southwind.net | Salt, Fat, Beer & Women! |
Wichita, Kansas | http://www.southwind.net/~leeb |
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 11:23:13 EDT
From: Steven W. Schultz <swschult@cbda7.apgea.army.mil>
Subject: Honey for Priming
FWIW: I've used honey for priming (5g batch) a few times, and have used 1/2 cup
with pretty good results.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 95 11:49:13 EDT
From: CGEDEN@NERVM.NERDC.UFL.EDU
Subject: subspace info
There has been some discussion in recent days about how most of the
info on HBD is concentrated in a few, relatively prolific, posters.
This is true, but there is also a great deal of information passed
by private email resulting from a public posting. It has been my
experience that there are many people listening who are willing to
share their wisdom and insights, but prefer the less visible medium
of private email. We are like the Borg; our collective wisdom goes
considerably beyond its most visible manifestations. Although it would
be impossible to measure, I would bet that each issue of HBD generates at least
twice as much additional information that is passed privately.
Chris Geden
Brewer, Listener, Entomologist
Gainesville, FL
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 10:55:59 PDT
From: Rob Emenecker <robe@cadmus.com>
Subject: Need for Secondary
In HBD 1696 Thomas Aylesworth responded to my queries about a secondary
fermenter and closed with...
> In summary, I think beginning ale brewers should keep it simple. Don't
> bother with a secondary until you've mastered/improved other techniques,
> unless you have problems (like autolysis) that you know would go away
> if you racked.
I did end up racking off to a secondary. The reason for this was that the
fermentation was slowing down and I would not have the opportunity to bottle
over the next 3-4 days. The ale was brewed with hop pellets, as a result the
primary had a healthy layer of sludge in the bottom (beyond the yeast cake).
I racked the beer Friday evening and will probably bottle tonight. One thing
I did notice was that within 24 hours of racking there was no more bubbling
in the airlock. Is that normal?
On another note, I wanted to offer the general public a warning about cheap
carboy substitutes. Late saturday afternoon I was making a throw together dark
german ale (defies style), with unused ingredients that I had accumulated over
the past 6 months. After the cooled wort was in my carboy, I needed to aerate
it. In the past I have always done the "carboy jig". Rolling it around the
floor, picking it up and shaking it, swinging it by the handle then back to
rolling it. Never had a problem until saturday.
Three months ago I was rumaging around a flea market and found a glass
terrarium that was "in essence" a 5 gallon carboy. I got the thing for 5
bucks. Saturday was the first time I had a chance to try it out and I found
that it differed from a normal carboy in one small area. Instead of being
a single piece of glass, it was two sides that were fused together.
Well to make a long story short... Upon the very first roll, it cracked at one
of the seams and my entire laundry room/work room was awash in 5 gallons of
dark sticky wort and glass shards. After the glass broke I discovered another
difference from a regular carboy. The glass thickness was only 1/8". Well
after 8 hours of clean-up and a bought of depression, my basement is back to
normal (less one cheap @#$#!@#!!%$$# substitute carboy).
Be forewarned... when cruising the flea markets and yard sales for potential
homebrewing goodies, buying cheap does not necessarily save money!
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
: "There are only two things in life that oooooo :
: we can ever be certain of... _oooooooo :
: ...taxes and beer!" /_| oooooo :
: Cheers, // | ooo :
: Rob Emenecker \\_| oo | :
: remenecker@cadmus.com (Rob Emenecker) \_| o| :
: Cadmus Journal Services, Inc. |______| :
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 12:00:54 -0500
From: dharsh@alpha.che.uc.edu (Dr. David C. Harsh)
Subject: O2 vs. Air "The final word; My mistake"
There's been a lot of discussion here as a result of my initial post with
regard to what you should aerate with. Obviously, my conehead was on a
little tight because I clearly was _wrong_ about pressure effects of gas
solubility! So let me clear things up with this post.
1. Yes, you can increase solubility by increasing partial pressure of
aerating gas. Also, the equilibrium amount absorbed is roughly linear with
concentration in the gas phase.
2. If you are going to aerate with oxygen, make sure you don't expose the
wort to the atmosphere or all that extra oxygen will come back out of
solution since the equilibrium concentration with air (20.9% oxygen) is
lower that that obtained from exposure to pure oxygen. {maybe this is what
I was thinking}
To slightly change the subject:
3. I have heard claims (second hand) that increased oxygen content can
cause oxidation of the wort, and this could be a problem. At 20 C,
solubility of oxygen in chlorine free water in contact with air is reported
at 9.09 ppm. Exposure to pure oxygen would result in maximum solubility of
43.49 ppm [(9.09/.209)]. Solubility of oxygen in water at 50 C exposed to
air is 5.47 ppm. Granted, the temperature effect oxidation reactions is
usually much greater than concentration, but at 80 C the solubility is
reduced to 5.3 ppm. My point? If 80 C and 5.3 ppm O2 will oxidize your
wort, so might 20 C and 43.49 ppm O2. (Solubility data from "Standard
Methods for the Examination of Water and Wastewater") We need kinetic data
(activation energy) to be sure about whether oxidation from pure oxygen
aeration is a problem, and I'm not sure the reactions are so readily
quantified and measured. The only data I have is for super-critical liquid
phase combustion, where rate depends on the organic concentration only.
Over a 50 C range, the rate constants change by anything from a factor of 2
to a factor of 20 (increasing at higher temperatures). Even at the maximum
reduction in rate (4-nitrophenol oxidized to CO2), we could see oxidation.
Below critical conditions, oxygen concentration will affect rate and the
eight-fold increase in oxygen solubility would result in oxidation at about
one third the rate in hot wort. Does anybody have any applicable data?
Even if pressure isn't supposed to affect liquid phase rate constants much,
I hesitate to draw any direct conclusion.
Finally, I still don't like using Henry's law constants for gas solubility.
The definition of Henry's constant is based on a vapor-liquid equilbrium
model, not a dissolved gas, so this is not a rigorously correct approach.
I know it is widely used and works, so I'll disagree quietly on this topic
(turn off your flamethrowers!).
SUMMARY: Aerating with oxygen increases dissolved oxygen, but may increase
the rate of oxidation reactions. Without kinetic data to be sure of the
temperature effects of oxidation reactions, oxygenate to high solubility at
your own wort's risk.
Now relax.
Dave
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 13:05:25 -0400
From: garyf@idirect.com (Gary Flock)
Subject: Disaster looking for a place to happen!
Re HBD 1694 MK asked about Propane cooker INDOORS.
It is impossible to OVEREMPHASIZE how dangerous this act is. Propane (as
I'm sure everyone knows) is heavier than air, unlike natural gas (methane)
and if, heaven forbid, you have a minute leak at one of the connections,
will travel to the lowest part of the house. If you have a sump pump for
example, it will find it and sit there. Now, let's say that you brew once a
week: a small leak (say 0.5 cuft) per brew. Four weeks later it rains
heavily, sump pump turns on and BOOM house is gone! I personally know of one
such incident where a teen brought his 20lb propane tank (which had run out
during barbequeing) into the house as a short cut to the front yard. The
phone rang and he spent 20-30 minutes on the phone. When he went back
downstairs to retrieve the tank, he turned on the light switch and levelled
the house. He is lucky to be alive, however is crippled for life.
In HBD 1696 R.E. mentions having the fire insuance paid up:
The policies/laws here in the great white north may differ from those in the
U.S. but my house insurance policy immediately becomes null and void the
moment you bring a propane tank indoors. (exlcuding those used for small
portable torches).
I currently use an 86,000 btu propane cooker (outdoors) and was about to
make a batch this past winter. The temp. outside was about 35 below F. and
just couldn't immagine standing out there for 90 minutes. I broke down and
set the burner up in the laundry room (on the sink supported by a 2ft square
patio stone). Being paranoid as hell about propane, I placed the tank
outside and ran the hose through the window which was kept wide open during
the boil. I soaped all of the connections and found two minor leaks (in
places that I never thought would) and corrected them. I then made 5 gal.
of "NERVOUS LAGER" awaiting the big Kaboom! In order to avoid an ulcer, I
have returned to outdoor boiling.
Next winter I hope to own a natural gas cooker which I'm told can be picked
up (used) for around $150.00.
I hope this helps, respectfully.......propane paranoia
Gary R. Flock AKA Garth
Oakville, Ontario, Canada. -------garyf@idirect.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 95 14:57:28 EDT
From: Jay Rustine <jrustine@hns.com>
Subject: North Carolina Concerns
I am a neophyte homebrewer who is being considered for a position in
Wilmington, North Carolina. Not being familiar with that area at all, I
am concerned as to whether or not:
a) Homebrewing is legal there.
b) There are any good homebrew supply stores nearby.
If anyone reading this is from that area or familiar with it, I would
appreciate some insight. You can e-mail to me privately at:
jrustine@hns.com
Thanks,
Jay Rustine, jrustine@hns.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 1995 15:17:06 EDT
From: uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
Subject: RE: Mitch's Red Beers
Looks like we caught the self-appointed "Brewing Chemist" RED-HANDED|
But here's another one to add to the list:
For an American Corn/Rice Swill: RED HYDRANT.
It brings the canine theme back to "red" beers _AND_ accurately describes the
brew.
Now go have a beer,
Bob Paolino / Disoriented in Badgerspace / uswlsrap@ibmmail.com
- ---THE INTERNET: Hardwiring the neurons of the global brain:---
One geek at a time....
- ---------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 14:41:57 -0700
From: danpack@grape-ape.che.caltech.edu (Dan Pack)
Subject: cold/hot break....chill haze
Hi all. I'm a newbie who's been reading the digest since about Jan.
I've gotten a tremendous amount of extremely useful information from
this forum so far so I'd just like to say thanks to everyone and keep
up the good work. But now it's time for me to come out of lurking and
ask a specific question. Actually two questions.
I recently made an immersion chiller out of 50' of 3/8 in. OD copper
tubing. Cools my wort (partial boil approx 3 1/2 gal) to pitching
temp. in under 15 minutes with stirring. (Yes stirring makes a BIG
difference in how fast the wort cools). Anyway, I've used this on my
last two batches the latest being yesterday. I get a HUGE cold break
as expected. On the last batch I poured through a strainer into my carboy
hoping the (whole) hops would act as a filter but essentially all the
break ended up in the bottom of the fermenter. This resulted in quite
a bit of lost beer as I tried to leave as much of the gunk behing
when racking to secondary. For the current batch I tried the *whirlpool*
technique. What I did was stir the cold wort in a circular motion to
set up the whirlpool and then let the break settle for 15 min. I then
tried to rack from the side of the pot with a copper racking cane with
a copper *scrubby* stuck on the end to keep out large chunks of goo.
Well this didn't work for beans. The wort coming through the siphon
was filled with break material and the scrubby clogged up quickly
making the siphon run VERY slowly. So my question is, what did I miss?
Is there some trick to making this work? In the future should I just
rack the wort to a second carboy after allowing the trub to settle
ala Miller? I still lose a lot of beer/wort this way.
This brings me to my next question. My biggest problem (IMO) currently
is chill haze. Every beer I've ever brewed (about 15 batches) has
had this problem, even the last batch in which I used the chiller for
the first time (of course since all of the break material made it into
the carboy...) Anyway, as I mentioned before I use only partial boils.
I use 2 tsp. irish moss added 20 min. before end of boil. (For my current
batch I re-hydrated the irish moss the night before) But I have never
seen the hot break (egg drop soup as some have described it). Could the
lack of hot break be the reason for my chill haze. Is removing the break
material (see first question) important for eliminating the haze?
How does water chemistry (Ca, pH) effect chill haze? I'm thinking of
fining with gelatin on this batch. Can I expect any improvement?
Wow! Sorry for the long post but I know if anyone can answer these
questions it's the collective wisdom of the digest. Thanks.
Dan
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 1995 18:47:57 -0400
From: jeaster@nr.infi.net (Jeff Easter)
Subject: Ale vs Lager Yeasts in Bruce and Kays....
I know I have seen this discussion elsewhere, but I'll be darned if I can
find it now that I need it. I am making a batch of Bruce and Kays Honey
Spruce Lager, but it seems the fermentation has all but stopped, just a
little over 30 hours since it started. I pitched two packets of M & F Ale
yeast, at 72 degrees, and I am wondering what to do now. Any help out
there? Thanks, Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 95 18:50:56 EDT
From: andy2@hogpa.ho.att.com (Andrew J Donohue)
Subject: honey priming/new counterflow chiller
Several posters are considering priming with honey. I have
done this on several occasions with success. Only use 1/2 cup
(or less) for proper carbonation. It will take longer for
carbonation than corn sugar and you won't get any noticable
honey character, in my experience.
With the warmer tap water of summer coming up, I just put together
a counterflow chiller. Th whole thing took less than an hour to
construct. I threaded 25' of 3/8 copper through 23' of 5/8 hose
using only H20 as a lubricant. Then I drilled 3/8 hole in 2
metal hose elbow connections. I threaded the elbows over the
copper pipe and patched the connection with Goop. That's it!
Andy Donohue
andy2@hogpe.ho.att.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 11:35:51 +0000 (WET)
From: "Harold R. Wood" <hrwood@uog9.uog.edu>
Subject: mail order - HopTech and others
I would like to make a few comments regarding the recent activity
about mail ordering and HopTech.
I live on Guam, a small island in the Western Pacific - north of Australia,
south of Japan, east of the Philippines and west of a whole lot of water.
All of my homebrew acquisitions are obtained via mail order. Everything.
Malt, hops, yeast, carboys, caps, books - everything. Because of this I
am quite interested in HBD comments regarding mailorder. Good reports might
induce me to try a new supplier. Bad reports might induce me to not try
a supplier.
Currently, my favorite suppliers are South Bay Homebrew Supply (Torrance,
Ca), HopTech (Pleasanton, CA) and The Beverage People (Fulton, CA). I
also like Brewers Resource (Camarillo, CA).
There have been an occasional error in filling my orders. (I occasionally
make an error!)
I would like to see mail order reports continue (positive and negative).
However, I hope that each error is not reported upon. A single bad
experience should not be the subject of the HBD.
HopTech is one of my most reliable suppliers. They have a nice catalog,
they ship rapidly, they have good products. In short, I have no qualms
about recommending them.
Just to add some balance.
Rick Wood
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 01:55:00 UTC
From: t.duchesneau@genie.geis.com
Subject: Racking to secondary
There has been some discussion lately on the need to rack ales to
secondary, but they have missed the most important point. Racking to
secondary frees the primary to brew again. ;-)
...Tom
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 00:43 CDT
From: pgravel@mcs.com (Philip Gravel)
Subject: Homebrew archives
===> Rob Emenecker asks about ftp sites:
>Does anyone know of a source listing FTP sites relating to beer, homebrewing,
>zymurgy, etc. Please let me know. Thanks!
Check out the homebrew archives at ftp.stanford.edu in the directory
/pub/clubs/homebrew/beer
- --
Phil
_____________________________________________________________
Philip Gravel Lisle, Illinois pgravel@mcs.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:02:46 -0400
From: TPuskar@aol.com
Subject: Contaminated batch
Well, it has finally happened! After about a dozen batches, I have succeeded
in making my first batch of contaminated gushers. I'm glad I got it over
with early in my career! My question is, what went wrong?
I am usually quite anal about sanitation-go through bleach like water. All
equipment went through my standard sanitation. I did use a yeast which I
cultured on plates and slants from a Wyeast American packet used for a
previous batch. The slants looked good with no apparent contamination. The
contaminated batch (as evidenced by the "ring around the collar" effect and
gushing upon openeing) was a part of an experiment to check the effect of 2
different yeasts. The batch was brewed as a 6 gallon batch and split into
two 3 gallon batches. I did use some plastic fermentors (buckets) I got from
the local bakery dept of my supermarket. Again, they were cleaned and sanitiz
ed as I normally treat my glass stuff. The other portion of the batch is not
contaminated. It was pitched with London yeast also from a homemade slant.
With all that said, I know I'll never really find out where the contamination
came from, I've got a few questions for the collective wisdom.
1. The beer doesn't really taste that bad--is it safe to drink or should I
dump it, scrub the hell out of the bottles and move on?
2. Is it possible that there were clues along the way that I missed that
would have told me I got a bad one? To me everything looked fine.
3. Since I used two different buckets (three if you count the bottling
bucket) for the primary and secondary, I figure sanitation was the problem.
Maybe that old "scratched plastic can't be cleaned" issue that comes up
every so often.
4. Without a microscope I can't really check my slant. I'm planning to
streak a new plate and see if it comes up clean. Any other suggestions for
checking the yeast? Should I pitch it out and start a new pack for my next
brew?
5. Did I just push my luck with liquid transfer? The batch went through
several siphonings and pourings--more than usual--and some of which took
place in my basement--not the cleanest place around.
Any comments would be appreciated. Post here for the common good or private
is OK too. I think I'll stop this experimenting crap and go back to my glass
carboys.
TIA
Tom Puskar
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 08:02:49 -0400
From: TPuskar@aol.com
Subject: Glass carboys--big ones
This may be of local interest to NJ-NY-PA-DE brewers due to shipping costs.
A guy in central Jersey has about 50 *large* glass carboys, 13.5 gallon
size, which are up for grabs. He got them when cleaning out a warehouse and
is unsure of their history. They are reasonably clean and in good shape. My
guess is that they contained acids or some such chemicals. Some of them are
over 40 years old and may be of value as collectables as well.
His prices are negotiable and start around $30-$40. I picked up one--boy
they are big--didn't look that big when sitting on his front lawn! They
might be of interest to the large volume guys (gals) out there who have boilin
g pots that complement this size fermentor. If there is any interest, send
Email and I'll provide more info.
Tom Puskar
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 8:56:49 EDT
From: Kevin Emery DSN 584-2900 <ksemery@cbda9.apgea.army.mil>
Subject: Honey Beer Revisited
Honey Brews Revisited
I brewed a honey brown..... "Motor City Madhouse Ale" in June 94. I used
8 pounds of English 2-row, 1 pound of wheat, 2 1/2 pounds of clover honey,
1 oz Willamette, 1 oz of hallertau, Irish moss, gelatin in the 2nd, and
WYeast 1007. The mash schedule was:
95 degrees for 15 minutes (Acid Rest)
122 degrees for 30 minutes (Protein Rest)
152 degrees for 45-60 minutes (until passed iodine test)
The OG was 1.064, and the FG was 1.010 . That's 7.09% A by V.
While this beer did have some honey character, the alcohol taste was
stronger. I don't think creating a brew so high in alcohol that the yeast
quit, thereby giving the honey flavor is the way to go. I think we just
need to find a good yeast that will leave some of the honey profile. This one
did mellow a bit, but was not one of my better beers.
I just recently brewed a honey beer from canned malt..... Don't remember
the specifics but it was something like 3.3 pounds liquid malt extract,
2 1/2 pounds clover honey and other goodies...... I again used WYeast 1007,
this time is was 3 times removed from the packet. It fermented everything.
I now have a very pleasant brew, but no honey profile.
One side note..... I don't know if it's because of the honey, but the
brews I have used it in all seem to be a bit more clear. Then again, it
could just be the gelatin!!!
I'm getting married this Saturday so I guess I'll become Mr Emery....
or was that my dad...
Kevin Emery
North East, MD
"Women are a lot like a beer. They look good, they smell good, and you'd
walk all over your mother just to get one!" Homer....... Simpson
------------------------------
Date: 04 Apr 1995 09:18:17 -0500 (EST)
From: DUBOVIK@hsdwl.utc.com
Subject: Is lager still good?
I brewed a lager (extract) with Wyeast liquid least. After about a week
of very nice fermenting in the primary (at about 65 deg F), I transfered
it over to the secondary (at about 50 deg F). Well, due to work, and
projects (all the wife's) around the house, over 2 months has passed
and it's still in there. Is it still good ("Lagering" at 50 deg) for 2
months, or is it tree fertilizer. If it's still good, should I get my ass
in gear and bottle now (and do I need to add more yeast).
TIA (Oh sorry, that's getting to be taboo on this and other lists!)
Responses will be greatly appreciated and possibly acknowledged (If my
wife does'nt have more "Oh honey" projects around the house)
Gary J. Dubovik
Aerospace (Still Employeed!!) Engineer
DUBOVIK@hsdwl.utc.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Apr 95 08:56:31 CST
From: "Yunke, Pat" <YUNKE@MUSIC.LIB.MATC.EDU>
Subject: Road Trip Info Request - Clearwater & Louisville
I will be traveling to Clearwater Florida and Louisville Kentucky in
the near future and I would like information on local Micro's and brew
pubs in those two locations.
Please include any pertinent information including specialty brews
avaliable. If they have any LARGE brews also let me know. I have a
preference for BIG beers.
Personal E-Mail is fine. Send info to:
yunke@music.lib.matc.edu
Thanks for your help. - Pat Yunke
Pat Yunke
Instructor E-Mail: YUNKE@MUSIC.LIB.MATC.EDU
Tool & Die Making
Milwaukee Area Technical College Phone: (414) 238-2223
Mequon, WI 53092 Fax: (414) 238-2380
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 07:43:47 -0700
From: stephenm@netcom.com (Stephen Meredith)
Subject: Sam Adams Double Bock
Fellow Brewers,
I just tried Sam Adams Double Bock. I liked it, but is this beer
true-to-style? I'd like to make a double bock. There are a few recipes in
Cats Meow. Can anybody recommend one of those, or have a better one (extract)?
-Steve
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 1995 10:59:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jim Busch <busch@eosdev2.gsfc.nasa.gov>
Subject: Brewpub recipes and posting compet.
Jay says:
<This is just a quick request/reminder to refrain from posting competition
<results in the HBD (we've been over this before).
I like it. Skip over it if you dont. Theres lots of stuff in the HBD
that wont appeal to everyone. Its not of only local interest in these
days where people enter all over the country.
Jack asks:
<His question is whether or not glass-lined hot water heaters can be
<adapted to use as fermenters.
This is an April fools joke , right? If not, someone needs to do some
research on brewing.
Andy asks:
<He is also brewer at a local pub-brewery, and is getting an Internet
<connection
<real soon. I have told him about the HBD and the collective wisdom,
<and he is
<interested, but unsure if it has adequate "focus" for him. He has a
<few questions,
snip on the SNPA, Liberty and Orval questions.
Since he is a paid brewer, why should we give away recipes on some hard
to make styles, so he can make money on em? Shouldnt a pro brewer who
wants this have to pay something for it? OK, SNPA and Liberty are no
brainers, but Orval...... If its references he wants, Id be happy to
do some consulting for him.
Jim Busch
Colesvill, Md
busch@mews.gsfc.nasa.gov
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 95 10:09:00 PDT
From: Rob Emenecker <robe@cadmus.com>
Subject: Priming with Light DME
The amount of posts regarding priming with honey on the HBD is unbelievable.
Can anyone tell me why there is a sudden upturn in priming with honey. I just
switched over to using M&F Light DME (1.25c/5.0gal). Are all of you folks
swithing over from using corn sugar to honey, DME to honey, or what? I would
like to hear some chatter about people's experiences with priming with DME!
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
: "There are only two things in life that oooooo :
: we can ever be certain of... _oooooooo :
: ...taxes and beer!" /_| oooooo :
: Cheers, // | ooo :
: Rob Emenecker \\_| oo | :
: remenecker@cadmus.com (Rob Emenecker) \_| o| :
: Cadmus Journal Services, Inc. |______| :
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1698, 04/05/95
*************************************
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