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HOMEBREW Digest #1686
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1995/03/22 PST
HOMEBREW Digest #1686 Wed 22 March 1995
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor
Contents:
professional brewing courses (Lenny Garfinkel)
US Saaz Hops (Chuck E. Mryglot)
(George Danz 919-405-3632)
pump question ("Timothy P. Laatsch)
Making Wits.... (again) (Andrew Patrick)
Dry Hopping (Drago James MAJ)
mail note (KWERNER.MARL)
Wit! (cole)
Homebrew shops/shop opening possibility (Timothy Staiano)
Lager Yeast (AUS)" <BenA@wayne.com>
Homebrew Digest #1685 (March 21, 1995) (Ed Holderman)
Kolsch (Michael McGuire)
Warm Weather Brewing (TAYLOR STANDLEE)
Re:White Beer and Orange Peel (Hmbrewbob)
Straining vs. Racking ("Harrington, Stephen J")
Gott Alternatives??? (Dan Sherman)
Re: water analysis micro mhos (Richard Hampo)
Priming for a Trippel (Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna)
Specific Gravity Calculations (RWaterfall)
Slow Lager? (Montgomery_John)
Four stages/yeast and hop utilization (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
A-B Kegs and Brew Systems (Kirk R Fleming)
Keg dispensing device (Bill Rucker)
counter-pressure bottle fillers (PGILLMAN)
Victoria Bitter (Tony McCauley)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:05:17 +0200 (IST)
From: Lenny Garfinkel <lenny@zeus.datasrv.co.il>
Subject: professional brewing courses
Can anyone point me to training courses for professional brewmasters?
Preferably in Europe, but US ok.
Lenny
_________________________________________________________________
Dr. Leonard Garfinkel | Internet: lenny@zeus.datasrv.co.il
Bio-Technology General | Office Phone: 972-8-381256
Kiryat Weizmann | Home Phone: 972-8-451505
Rehovot, Israel | FAX: 972-8-409041
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 08:16:49 EST
From: cem@cadre.com (Chuck E. Mryglot)
Subject: US Saaz Hops
Hi Everyone....
Recently I bought a pound of US Saaz whole leaf hops (ultimately
from G.W. Kent Ann Arbor MI). The AA rating was 6.2% I have brewed
with these a few times and this rating appears to be correct.
Now, Czech Saaz hops are usually around 3%.
Are the US versions of Saaz so drastically different?.... or is this
just an aberation. I planted some US Saaz last year and am looking
forward to a decent harvest this year. Should I assume that the AA will
be around 6% ?
Any advice is welcome.
cheers,
chuckm
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:31:54 -0500
From: danz@rtp.semi.harris.com (George Danz 919-405-3632)
Subject:
Bob Bassette asked about using yeast from bottle dregs:
===========
From: Bob Bassette <bessette@hawk.uicc.com>
Subject: Re-using old yeast from a bottle...
Fellow HBDers,
Miller states in TCHOHB that he has successfully used yeast dregs from a bottle
of home-brew pitched into a starter for a subsequent batch. He also mentioned
that he would not go more than one generation from the Wyeast pack-pitched
beer. I would like to try this in an upcoming batch. He mentioned that you
should be pretty confident of your sanitation practices before doing this. He
also states that you should torch the top of your bottle bfore pitching the
dregs into the starter. Has anyone out there done this and has had consistent
success? Also any horror stories? I know that I'm risking a whole batch for
the cost of a Wyeast pack (roughly $4.00) but I would like to give it a go.
Please send to me directly if you have any experience with this...
=============
Bob,
One of the best bottles to get your yeast from is the secondary of the last
batch. There is one helluva lot of yeasties in there and since you don't
have to transfer anything, a much less chance of beasties in your yeasties.
I've done this once and plan on reapeating. The lag period of 2 to 3 hours
is attractive to me and the results have been damn good lager. I haven't
tried this with ales yet. The yeast is same generation as Miller's from
the bottle, so no problem there. I just start a new batch and when I'm
ready to drain my pre-chilled brew into the carboy, I rack the fermented batch
into lager carboys or bottle if you wish, then let new batch drop into the
just emptied fermenter. I cover the fermenter and yeast with alum. foil to
keep out anything that might come along while I'm preparing hoses, etc. to feed
the fermenter.
- ------
"Life's too short to drink cheap beer"
George E. Danz
danz@rtp.semi.harris.com
(919)405-3632
(919)405-3651 FAX
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:09:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Timothy P. Laatsch <LAATSCH@kbs.msu.edu>" <LAATSCH@kbs.msu.edu>
Subject: pump question
Hello,
I have an el-cheapo pseudo-3-tiered all-grain system. I mash in my brewpot
and then transfer the mash to a zapap lauter-tun. I have a small brewpot
(from my extract days) with a valve that sits on the stove and serves as my
hot liquor tank and runs directly into the lauter-tun.
The third tier is the brewpot, which sits on the floor and
collects the sweet runnings. The problem, of course, is that I cannot
immediately and directly heat the wort because it is on the floor. I would
like to invest in a small liquid pump to pump the wort from an intermediate
collection vessel on the floor (like a saucepan) and up to the brewing kettle
on the stovetop. This would allow me to begin heating immediately, which
would shorten my brewday (already ridiculously long) and hopefully improve my
beer (may help with caramelization in styles like Scotch Ales). I've seen
some suggestions for Teel pumps, but I'm completely ignorant of what size or
capacity pump I need and/or where to get them. Any suggestions would be
appreciated and, as always, I'm looking for a bargain. TIA.
Bones
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Timothy P. Laatsch
Graduate Student in Microbial Ecology/Bioremediation
Michigan State University / W.K. Kellogg Biological Station
Kalamazoo, MI
laatsch@kbs.msu.edu
"...and your face looked like somethin' death brought with him
in his suitcase..."----WZ
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 08:45:48 -0600 (CST)
From: Andrew Patrick <andnator@mcs.com>
Subject: Making Wits.... (again)
The making of wits has been much discussed here previously. Isn't there a
FAQ on this? (No, I am not volunteering! I really dont have the time.)
I have found the Wyeast Belgian White strain to do an excellent job. It
is allegedly the same strain used by Celis in Austin.
You can get some excellent "Bitter Quarters" orange peel from a mail order
store called The Frozen Wort in either Northfield or Greenfield, Mass.
No, I dont have the number handy, try 1-800 directory assistance.
One of the tougher things about this style is getting the wheat character
right. Celis' grain bill contains a large fraction of UNmalted wheat.
This stuff is a real PITA to work with, both in terms of grinding it and
mashing it. Last time I made one of these, I did just used plain old DWC
wheat malt, and the resulting beer turned out quite nicely.
The exact spice profile is somewhat controversial. Everybody agrees that
there is orange peel and coriander in there, but there is also another
"secret spice" that Pierre won't reveal. There is widespread speculation
about what it might be....
Pierre does a secondary lactic fermentation to get that sour flavor. I
asked him how a homebrewer might attempt to replicate this when I saw him
at the Dixie Cup a couple of years back. He just smiled, and said
"ahhhhh.... I think it is a difficult thing for a homebrewer to achieve!"
He's a funny guy.
Try adding a little bit of lactic acid to sour it up a bit, if you are
going for an exact Celis clone. Adjust the exact amount according to
your tastes.
Andy Patrick (andnator@mcs.com)
Brewmaster, Harlem Brewing Co, Inc; Founder, HomeBrew U BBS Network:
Chicago 708-705-7263, Houston 713-923-6418, Milwaukee 414-238-9074
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 09:20:23 EST
From: tj2996@WESTPOINT-EMH2.USMA.ARMY.MIL (Drago James MAJ)
Subject: Dry Hopping
I had my first experience with dry-hopping recently, and it did not go well.
Looking for some advice. I brewed an IPA (8th batch) and after racking to the
secondary, added pelletized hops directly. The problems occurred when I
attempted to rack it to my bottling bucket.
I tried attaching a sanitized nylon to the end of my racking cane, and I had a
difficult time with the hops clogging the end of the tube. Even though the
nylon kept the hop residue from travelling up the tube, transfer occurred only
for about a minute or so before clogging up. I tried several iterations with
the nylon attaching it both loosely and tightly to the cane. Eventually, I gave
up, sanitized a strainer and went fishing for melted hop pellets that remained
at the top of the secondary. This process took a while, and I am not confident
that the beer that went into the bottles was as clean as it should be.
Any advice on how to successfully dry hop would be much appreciated.
Jim Drago
JAMES P. DRAGO
MAJ, FA
ADMISSIONS MEDIA OFFICER
X5701
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 07:00:16 PST
From: KWERNER.MARL@rx.xerox.com
Subject: mail note
HELP
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:16:17 -0500
From: cole@nevism.nevis.columbia.edu
Subject: Wit!
I am catching up on a couple of weeks worth of HBD
and noticed the thread on Spring St Brewing and Wit!
I bought a six-pack of this last week to see what it
was like and found it so bad that I took 5 unopened
bottles back to the store. It had an overwhelming off
sour taste which I assume can only be the result of
an infection. This sourness was not the kind of pleasant
tartness I enjoy in Celis Wit, it was nauseating. I
have never had a homebrew (mine or anyone elses) as bad
as this beer. The fact that they would ship obviously
infected beer confirms Jim's observation that they are
more interested in law and marketing than producing a
good beer. Hopefully they will either clean up their act
or sink into oblivion.
Cheers,
Brian Cole
cole@nevis.nevis.columbia.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 10:19:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Timothy Staiano <tstaiano@ultrix.ramapo.edu>
Subject: Homebrew shops/shop opening possibility
This message is for those living in the Northern New Jersey/Southern New
York-Conn. area, so if that excludes you, please move along. Send flames
regarding this localized post to stop.whining@seen.more.worthless.posts.
I already know about Red Bank Brew Supply, Hop & Vine, The Home Brewery,
and 1 or 2 others in NJ, but does anyone know of any in the Southern
Orange and/or Rockland County, NY area? How about southern Conn? Please
reply private e-mail so as to avoid a cyber-lynching.
The reason I as is that my boss approached me about running a homebrew
supply store located next to us, Mountain Valley Brew Pub. As we are
located in Suffern, NY (and I live just over the border in 'Jersey), I
don't know of any local (within 15-20 min) hb suppliers. We were
wondering if there is any interest in having one in this area.
Please e-mail me if you have (or anyone you know has) a desire to see a
new hb supplier within this region.
TIA
Have a hoppy!
Tim Staiano
tstaiano@ultrix.ramapo.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 09:50:00 C
From: "Ben Adair (AUS)" <BenA@wayne.com>
Subject: Lager Yeast
i am fermenting my first lager, an Oktoberfest partial mash, and at about 8
days i dry-hopped. the next day i noticed that the yeast at the bottom of
my fermenter breaks loose in big chunks and floats to the top and a faintly
(very faintly) sour hint is detectable. i realize i am not doing my lager
justice by using single stage by i measured a low OG and i didn't think the
fermentation would last too long, although at 40-45 degrees i guess it
could.
questions: am i paranoid? (i can figure that out on my own if i tried)
should i rack to another fermenter?
thanks,
-ben
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 10:35 EST
From: Ed Holderman <0006776088@mcimail.com>
Subject: Homebrew Digest #1685 (March 21, 1995)
>From: " Richard Byrnes Jr" <usfmczgm@ibmmail.com>
>...2 questions, I could use some recommendations on brewpubs or
>decent beer bars in Atlanta.
Richard, I hate to disappoint you but, brewpubs are currently illegal in
Atlanta (hope that changes soon). As far as decent beer bars, you're in
luck! Check out any of the $3 Cafes or Rose & Crown in Buckead, Taco Mac in
Sandy Springs (I-285 & Roswell Rd.), and a couple others but I always seem
to forget their names. %-)
>From: "Westerman, Robert" <robert.westerman@spmail.jsc.nasa.gov>
>Subject: Bottle Cappers Again!
>In your opinion, what is the best kind (style and brand) of bottle capper
to use?
>I want to give one as a gift. I use a double lever capper (Black beauty I
>think, with a magnet to hold the cap), but am not very impressed with it
(it has even broke bottles in the past).
Robert, Since I have this great talent for losing things, I have tried
several bottle cappers. I have only used the double lever cappers, but I
have heard that single lever/stand alone cappers do not need as much
strength to use, and are less fatiguing. One of mine had two plastic bottle
contact pads, one on each side of the bottle, and the rest was metal with
plastic coated grips. It worked well and never broke a bottle. Another
sounded similar to yours; black, made in Italy, with plastic handles and a
magnetic cap holder. It worked very well, smooth, and didn't need much
pressure, although that made it hard to judge when to stop squeezing - never
broke bottles. The last one, which I have used the most, is metal with
three metal "hooks" that latch on to the bottle underneath the 2nd lip on
the neck. It works fairly well, but needs a little more pressure. The only
problem seems to be with the metal to glass contact - I have broken a couple
bottles. Of course, I have only used non-returnable Sam Adams(TM) or Molson
type bottles in this capper (Atlanta is not into re-using), so the bottles
are a little thinner, therefore they may break more. I am now trying to
convert to Grolsch type bottles with the flip-top and rubber gasket - no
cappers!
"Put another ale in your coffin"- Ed Holderman.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 10:23:14 CST
From: mcguire@hvsun33.mdc.com (Michael McGuire)
Subject: Kolsch
Could someone tell me the optimum fermentation teperature
for Whyeast's 2565 kolsch.
Thanks in advance
Michael
mcguimp@vpcs.msfc.nasa.gov
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:28:22 -0700
From: TAYLOR STANDLEE <STANDLT@vortex.t-bird.edu>
Subject: Warm Weather Brewing
HBDers:
Today is the last day of Winter here in Phoenix, so it is basically
the first day of summer (72 degrees at 6:00 am). This is also my
first year here in Az and I am wondering if there are any
yeast that perform tolerably at warmer ferment temperatures.
Yes, I know I need to by an old refrigerator, but the temp in the
house is hovering around 70F so does anyone have any suggestions?
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 11:33:25 -0500
From: Hmbrewbob@aol.com
Subject: Re:White Beer and Orange Peel
Hi Matt and fellow hbd'ers,
Matt writes in #1685:
>> I was wondering how well Wyeast's Belgian White Beer Yeast >>#3944 works.
Also, I am having trouble finding the proper orange >>peel.
I made my first Wit in Nov. of last year so I have abit of experience to
pass on. I used Wyeast Belgian Wit yeast and was surprised how slow it was to
finish. I left it go for 2 weeks in the pimary at 65F and racked it into the
secondary where it slowly bubbled for another 4 wks at 65F. This yeast added
a subtle "Belgian" flavor in in my beer and IMO, really helped in rounding
out the finish. Don't be alarmed by the krausen/foam that the beer will have
most of the time, Wit has a load of protein in its makeup and will support
this head.
I didn't have much luck finding bitter orange either so I went to a spice
shop and picked up an oz of orange zest (sweet orange peel). I used 1/2 oz of
it and 1 oz of grapefruit skin (just the yellow part of the peel) to flavor
my beer. Although I got the citris flavor I was after it was to much. Next
time I will use 1/2 oz of zest and 1/2 oz of g'fruit (which is the skin of
half a softball size g'fruit). I boiled this stuff for 30 min and added 3/4
oz of crushed coriander seed for the final 10 min. I added 10ml of lactic
acid in my bottling bucket but I think the citris taste masked it abit. Since
I like that lactic taste my next batch of Wit will have 15ml of lactic acid,
but you might want to start out with 10ml.
Because Kyle and many others have problems with grinding unmalted wheat why
not use flaked wheat? It's unmalted wheat that has been sent thru rollers
with the added benefit of having the wheat gelatinized in the process.
Bob Ledden
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 1995 08:53:22 -0800
From: "Harrington, Stephen J" <sharrington@msmail4.hac.com>
Subject: Straining vs. Racking
Guy,
I used to pour the wort through a metal strainer and a funnel into my carboy.
I was constantly having problems with the hops clogging things up. When I
switched to using a 5 gallon pot, it was too heavy to move safely and try to
wrestle with the clogging hops. I now rack from the pot right to the carboy.
It is much easier, and also aerates better. At the end of the tube which goes
into the carboy, I put a small piece of racking cane with a hole drilled
through the side. This acts as a venturi (sp?) and puts lots of 02 into the
wort (I got this idea from Fred Waltman). I strongly recommend that you rack
instead of strain.
Stephen Harrington
Manhattan Beach, CA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 09:23:24 -0800 (PST)
From: dsherman@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Dan Sherman)
Subject: Gott Alternatives???
I posted this message to rec.crafts.brewing a day ago & thought that
there may also be some interest & good feedback on the HBD. I'll
post a summary when I've compiled all of the responses. TIA.
I was in Kmart a couple of days ago, looking for inexpensive brewing
supplies, when I came upon a couple of Rubbermaid chest-type
coolers.
Rubbermaid makes the popular Gott drink coolers & these chest-type
coolers are also designed to handle both hot and cold liquids. The
6.5 gal. cooler was about $17 and the 12 gal. was about $19. Much
cheaper than the orange Gott drink coolers (Kmart has the 5 gal. for
$30).
Does anyone know if there is a reason NOT to use these chest-type
coolers?
Now, a couple of technical questions...
I do primarily 5 gal. batches, with the occasional 2.5 gal. batch.
Is the 12 gal. cooler going to be too big for a 5 gal. batch (not
sufficient grain bed depth)? Would I lose too much heat, due to the
large space between the top of the grain bed and the lid of the
cooler?
The 6.5 gal. Rubbermaid cooler doesn't have a drain spiggot. Would
there be a problem with drilling my own? Is there some sort of
insulation between the inside and outside cooler walls that would
pose a problem? Any recommendations on how to fit my own spiggot?
The 6.5 gal. cooler is the perfect size for the brewing I do now,
but the 12 gal. for only $2 more (plus a drain hole) is tempting.
Thanks!!
Dan Sherman
dsherman@ucsd.edu
San Diego, CA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 12:30:02 EST
From: captain@vulcan.srl.ford.com (Richard Hampo)
Subject: Re: water analysis micro mhos
Howdy,
I can't recall who asked this, but a few days ago someone
asked about the water conductance number that they got on their
water analysis. The units listed are micromhos. One mho is
simply the inverse of an ohm (which is one volt per amp).
So if the water has conductance of one michromho, it has resistance of
one megohm. I do not know what else goes into the test (i.e. the area and
distance over which this number is measured), but that is
what the units mean.
Happy Brewing,
Richard Hampo
H&H Brewing
Ford Research Laboratory
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 12:36:54 EST
From: Tim_Fields_at_Relay__Tech__Vienna@RELAY.COM
Subject: Priming for a Trippel
My next brew will be a Belgian trippel (extract recipe), and I want to
prime it with fresh yeast as well as sugar. From what I gather, I
should use 1 C of sugar and a one pint starter of yeast for a 5 gallon
batch. My last brew was also a Belgian, and it ended up
under-carbonated (i think. Used only sugar for priming and less than
a cup). I want to avoid under-carbonation, but i also want to avoid
exploding bottles. I'd appreciate any insights you all have.
Thanks!
Tim Fields
Relay Technology SQL/DS Team
Timf@relay.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 12:54:40 -0500
From: RWaterfall@aol.com
Subject: Specific Gravity Calculations
In #1684, Gary Bell writes,
"...using the table on page 268 in
Charlie Papazian's TNCJOHB to estimate the specific gravity of
your wort. DON'T! I posted on this last week; the table, for some
strange reason, represents some kind of strange polynomial
function. The relationship is purely linear. Assuming that your
DME contributes 42 pts/lb, if you add a pound of DME to a gallon
of water you increase the OG by 42 points. Thus two pounds per
gallon gives an OG of 1.084, three pounds per gallon gives 1.126,
four pounds would give 1.168, and five pounds would result in a
whopping 1.210 (don't try this at home kids!)."
I disagree Gary, it is not at all linear. The malt is adding volume as well
as weight to the wort. If we assume that dry malt extract in water is an idea
l solution (a bad assumption BTW), then the specific gravity of the solution
is equal to the sum of the masses divided by the sum of the volumes divided
by the density of water. Here's the strange polynomial equation after
simplifying it:
sg= (Mmalt + 8.34*Vw)
------------------------------------
((Mmalt/1.54) + (8.34*Vw/1))
And,
Wort Volume= Mmalt
--------------------- + Vw
8.34*1.54
Where Mmalt is the weight of malt in lb, Vw is the volume of water in gal,
1.54 is the sg of maltose (it also agrees with back calculating from the 42
pt/lb/gal at 1lb/1gal of wort). 1 gallon of water weighs 8.34 lb at 60F.
In #1685 Bob Paolino responded to Gary "- -->I wonder (again, without having
the table at hand, or even having read it
carefully, I confess) whether Charlie's numbers take into account the
additional volume contributed by the extract, and if that might explain
any difference. That is, is that 1.035 (or whatever the actual number is
depending on the particular extract, which is why I said mid-30s rather
than 1.035) is for a liquid extract added to a gallon of water (for a
total volume greater than one gallon) or for a volume of extract and
water that equals one gallon? It does make a difference, of course,
although the practical difference for determining a U% which is only an
approximation anyway is uncertain.
It's possible that one is talking about an amount of extract plus a volume
of water, and the other is a volume of diluted extract, and both results
could conceivably be correct."
Pretty much, Bob. If you substitute 1 lb malt and .922 gal of *water* into
the equations above you get 1 gal of *wort* at sg=1.042. If you add 1 lb of
malt to that you get 1.078 gallons of 1.078sg *wort*. If you add a third lb
of malt you get 1.156 gal of 1.109sg wort. I ran a spread sheet with lb of
DME down the side and gal of water across the top and calculated the sg and
volume of each mixture using those equations. I checked several points on my
table vs. CP's table and they agree within 0.001. So Charlie's right. But
guess what happens when you boil those enlarged worts back to 1 gal. You got
it, Gary is right too! Basically, the linear thing works as long as you
remember that it's 42 (or whatever) points per lb per gallon of *wort*, not
*water*. Charlie's tables work if you are trying to amend a wort in progress
to a given sg and to heck with the final volume of wort.
Like I said before though, wort is probably not an ideal solution, meaning
that the total volume won't quite be the sum of the volumes of the original
components. This makes the density greater. I looked into the some organic
chemistry data compliations and found a couple of tables of actual
measurements of the density of different concentrations of maltose in water.
The one at 20 C agrees pretty well with the above equation (with a slight
correction for the density of water at 20C not being exactly 1.00). The one
at 15.5C isn't as close, but a change in the density of maltose with temp may
bring it closer. The equation underpredicts the gravity a little at the high
end (e.g., at 19.56% maltose by weight and 15.5C, the predicted density is
1.072 as compared with the actual value of 1.0798). So actually, it seems
like both ways of figuring it are wrong. But, since we don't often go over 2
lb extract per gallon, then either model is good enough for government
workers and homebrewers (of which I am both ;-)).
Sorry about the BW, but think of how long it would have been if I included
the tables and spreadsheet.
Bob Waterfall,
Troy, NY, USA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 95 11:57:00 CST
From: Montgomery_John@lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
Subject: Slow Lager?
Hi,
Got a question for you folks. What kind of time frame should I be
looking at for a lager to ferment out completely? I've got a batch that
I'm beginning to *gasp* worry about (thank goodness I've got some other
homebrew to relax with).
Here's the scenario:
6.5 lbs Light DME
9 AAU's hops
Wyeast Pilsen liquid lager yeast
Methodology (ala Noonan's Brewing Lager Beers):
Day 1 - Pitched a 1 qt starter at 70F. (Forgot the O.G. reading)
Day 2.5 - Active fermentation within 36 hours at 53F.
Day 14 - Racked to secondary (temp at 48F).
Two day Diacetyl rest at 53F.
Day 16 - Began walking temp down to set point of 33 - 37F.
Day 24 - Temp at Lagering temp (~35F).
Day 45 - Beer has been lagering for 21 days.
Day 66 - Airlock looks still. Attempt to bottle but upon moving
fermenter from fridge to kitchen, airlock gets active and I notice
bubbles rising. I abort and take gravity readings SG: 1.014, Balling:
3.75
Day 72 - Take gravity readings. SG: 1.013, Balling: 3.63
So what's the deal. Is this thing taking too long? Am I being
impatient? Is the lagering temp too cold? Anybody have any clues? Sorry
if this took a lot of bandwidth, but I'm perplexed. TIA.
John M.
montgomery_john@lanmail.ncsc.navy.mil
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 95 14:45:00 -0600
From: korz@iepubj.att.com (Algis R Korzonas +1 708 979 8583)
Subject: Four stages/yeast and hop utilization
Bob writes:
>The other downside to gyle is that it can leave a ring around the neck
>of the bottle, since the yeast has to got through all 4 stages again
>and the ring is nothing more than a high kraeusen mark...
This may be true, but I don't see why the yeast would not go through the
same stages for dextrose priming as they would for malt or gyle priming.
Based upon my own experiments, I feel quite confident that it's protein that
makes up the ring and that force-cooling the primings after the boil (and
then leaving the break OUT of the bottling vessel) eliminates the ring
around the neck. Corn sugar has no protein and therefore no ring whether
you force-cool the primings or not.
***
Bradd writes:
>Please, save me from buying [Garetz's] book... how does he account for
>his supposed increase in [utilization] with more flocculent yeasts?
No need to buy the book. You can find the information for yourself
in the library in the ASBC Proceedings from 1955 (I believe). In one
paper, the author states that you can expect 10% more bitterness in a
beer made with highly flocculent yeast than you would get if the yeast was
less flocculent. The reason being that if the yeast spend more time
in solution they have more time to adsorb the isomerized alpha acids.
Those that fall out quickly have less effect.
It's difficult, at best, to use this information, since all yeast are
somewhere between "extremely flocculent" and "not flocculent at all"
and it's not easy to predict how much of that 10% *additional* loss you can
expect from your yeast (naturally, all yeasts will adsorb some amount,
but the less flocculent ones will adsorb more). You can get a rough idea
from brewing the same recipe with different yeasts but try a new yeast and
it's back to the drawing board.
Al.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 18:06:26 -0700
From: flemingk@usa.net (Kirk R Fleming)
Subject: A-B Kegs and Brew Systems
RE: #1685 Bradd asks about kegs
>From: braddw@banjo.rounder.com (Bradd Wheeler)
>Subject: New to the keg Biz
> What kind of kegs is A-B using these days?
All-stainless Sankey's are the only kind of A-B kegs *I have seen*.
>If I were to have a separate hot liquor tank would I be able to
>sufficiently mash/lauter 10 gal batches in a 1/4 keg then boil in
>a 1/2 keg? This means two false bottoms and two ball valves, but
>I want a separate mash/lautering vessel.
It's real hard for me to glean what you're describing, but here's
what I *think* you're proposing...either a) you want to use two 1/4
bbl kegs to simultaneously mash in, then at mash out go into a single
1/2 bbl keg/kettle for the boil. If I'm reading you correctly, then
I say the answer is yes, you can do that, but the problems of
temperature control and costs of building a mash/lauter tank are
all doubled, along with a doubling of the tempo of the work you
have to do during the mash cycle.
The most expensive and troublesome aspect of building a three-keg system
for me was: getting fittings for the keg and getting them welded to the
keg, cutting open the keg, and getting good false bottoms. Recommendation
here is: hold out for a single 1/2 bbl keg for use as a mash/lauter unit.
OR...b) You *really* mean you want to mash in a single 1/4 bbl keg,
mash out into the 1/2 bbl kettle, and add make-up water to get the
final brew length you want. If THIS is what you're talking about,
then I don't understand your comment about needing two false
bottoms--unless you're proposing to use one in the kettle, which
isn't worth the effort. Here is my experience with a three-keg system:
For a ten-gallon batch you're looking at 18-22 lbs of grain or more,
to which you have to add 6-8 gallons of water. Although you can load
the mash tun up to the gills with goodies since you don't have to boil,
I think you'd never come close to getting 20 lbs of grain and 7 gal of
water in a 7 3/4 gal tank with the top cut off. When we mash 22
lbs of grain in a 1/2 bbl keg we have about 30% available space
left--but this is well over the 8 gal center seam of the keg.
>I had the idea of building a conical vent hood for the kettle
>that would have an immersion chiller permanently attached. Would
>there be a detrimental effect from having the chiller immersed
>throughout the entire boil?
I see no harm in having the chiller in the boil for the duration;
kettles were once all-copper, after all. We have to reduce quite
a bit of volume sometimes, from 12 gal down to 10 at our reduction
rate of 1 gal/hr. So...we don't want to cover the kettle. Unless
you plan to cover the kettle with a blown hood and run the fan all
the time, you may find you get slower reductions than you really
want. I make the trade-off in favor of lower boil-start volumes
(closer to target final volume) and sacrifice the higher yields of
a longer, more voluminous sparge.
Kirk R Fleming
Colorado Springs
flemingk@usa.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 21:56:22 -0500
From: brewzer@peanut.mv.com (Bill Rucker)
Subject: Keg dispensing device
I have been following with great interest, the thread on the beer engine. I
have a question for anyone who may have had the impulse to build a
dispensing device for your average everyday lager or whatever. What did you
do to make and how does it work? If you have not done this maybe you are
thinking of it and have a good idea that may work. I want to be able to
dispense 3-4 kegs at once without all the hoses going everywhere. I am using
the 5 gallon corny kegs and a spare refrigerator in the basement. Any ideas
would be welcome and possibly tried.
TIA
Cheers!
____________________________________________________________________________
________
Bill Rucker
Work: cewgr@alpha.naesco.com Home: brewzer@peanut.mv.com
*** Wherever you go, there you are! ***
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 19:04:09 -0800 (PST)
From: PGILLMAN@POMONA.EDU
Subject: counter-pressure bottle fillers
i am interested in building or purchasing a counter-pressure bottle filler-
can anyone help with info on design of or suppliers of this?
tia-
phil
pgillman@pomona.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Mar 1995 22:25:38 -0600 (CST)
From: afmccaul@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Tony McCauley)
Subject: Victoria Bitter
I'm floating a query out here for a co-worker.
Pat asks if Victoria Bitter from Australia is imported into the US? He
tasted the beer on his last visit and loves it.
He plans to ship a case or two back on his next visit. Anybody had any
experience shipping beer from Australia? How about the cost if you've done it?
(I've heard some horror stories, experience and $$$, about shipping from Europe
and England.)
Private responses are fine.
TIA (and Pat thanks you also),
Tony McCauley -- afmccaul@ilstu.edu
.
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1686, 03/22/95
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